Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 15
Send Topic Print
Unions increase inequality (Read 18251 times)
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Online


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 47043
At my desk.
Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #30 - Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:35am
 
Ajax wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:30am:
freediver wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:29am:
Dnarever wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:19am:
Quote:
seek employment in other industries, and thus drive down wages in those industries.


People seeking employment drives down wages ?


Yes. If the number of jobseekers goes down, wages inevitably rise. If they go up, wages go down.

What exactly is your difficulty with this concept?


Yes this is what happens when you allow corporations to take their business off shore to use slave labor.


So you think what I say is true, but you don't want it to be true?
Back to top
 

I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT!
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Ajax
Gold Member
*****
Offline


CO2 has never controlled
temperature on Earth

Posts: 10952
Australia
Gender: male
Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #31 - Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:35am
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:32am:
Ajax wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:25am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:06am:
Ajax wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 8:59am:
First I’m not in a union my profession has no union ...


Of course you have a union.

What industry is it?


Lets just say engineering......... Wink

Anymore and I'll have to kill you.


Well, there is both a Union and a Modern Award that covers you.



There are many unions that cover people working in engineering, oil and gas, mining, industrial etc.

Mainly for the blue collars.
Back to top
 

1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery &  prison" Regas Feraeos
 
IP Logged
 
greggerypeccary
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 130890
Gender: male
Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #32 - Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:37am
 
Ajax wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:35am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:32am:
Ajax wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:25am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:06am:
Ajax wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 8:59am:
First I’m not in a union my profession has no union ...


Of course you have a union.

What industry is it?


Lets just say engineering......... Wink

Anymore and I'll have to kill you.


Well, there is both a Union and a Modern Award that covers you.



There are many unions that cover people working in engineering, oil and gas, mining, industrial etc.

Mainly for the blue collars.


I assure you, there is a Union that covers you.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Ajax
Gold Member
*****
Offline


CO2 has never controlled
temperature on Earth

Posts: 10952
Australia
Gender: male
Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #33 - Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:39am
 
freediver wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:35am:
Ajax wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:30am:
freediver wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:29am:
Dnarever wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:19am:
Quote:
seek employment in other industries, and thus drive down wages in those industries.


People seeking employment drives down wages ?


Yes. If the number of jobseekers goes down, wages inevitably rise. If they go up, wages go down.

What exactly is your difficulty with this concept?


Yes this is what happens when you allow corporations to take their business off shore to use slave labor.


So you think what I say is true, but you don't want it to be true?


This is for any industry not just unions and their members.

If the University of Chicago wanted a new lecturer and they were hard to come across it might increase the pay to finally get one.

If there are too many lecturers on the market then there will be no additional increase.

Same goes for baristas, waiters etc etc
Back to top
 

1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery &  prison" Regas Feraeos
 
IP Logged
 
Ajax
Gold Member
*****
Offline


CO2 has never controlled
temperature on Earth

Posts: 10952
Australia
Gender: male
Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #34 - Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:40am
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:37am:
Ajax wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:35am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:32am:
Ajax wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:25am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:06am:
Ajax wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 8:59am:
First I’m not in a union my profession has no union ...


Of course you have a union.

What industry is it?


Lets just say engineering......... Wink

Anymore and I'll have to kill you.


Well, there is both a Union and a Modern Award that covers you.



There are many unions that cover people working in engineering, oil and gas, mining, industrial etc.

Mainly for the blue collars.


I assure you, there is a Union that covers you.



Well maybe there is but I have not heard of it and neither have any of my colleagues.
Back to top
 

1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery &  prison" Regas Feraeos
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Online


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 47043
At my desk.
Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #35 - Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:43am
 
Ajax he is probably referring to APESMA, IEAUST etc.

Ajax wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:39am:
freediver wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:35am:
Ajax wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:30am:
freediver wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:29am:
Dnarever wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:19am:
Quote:
seek employment in other industries, and thus drive down wages in those industries.


People seeking employment drives down wages ?


Yes. If the number of jobseekers goes down, wages inevitably rise. If they go up, wages go down.

What exactly is your difficulty with this concept?


Yes this is what happens when you allow corporations to take their business off shore to use slave labor.


So you think what I say is true, but you don't want it to be true?


This is for any industry not just unions and their members.

If the University of Chicago wanted a new lecturer and they were hard to come across it might increase the pay to finally get one.

If there are too many lecturers on the market then there will be no additional increase.

Same goes for baristas, waiters etc etc


So you think what I say is true, but you don't want it to be true?
Back to top
 

I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT!
WWW  
IP Logged
 
greggerypeccary
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 130890
Gender: male
Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #36 - Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:44am
 
Ajax wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:40am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:37am:
Ajax wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:35am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:32am:
Ajax wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:25am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:06am:
Ajax wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 8:59am:
First I’m not in a union my profession has no union ...


Of course you have a union.

What industry is it?


Lets just say engineering......... Wink

Anymore and I'll have to kill you.


Well, there is both a Union and a Modern Award that covers you.



There are many unions that cover people working in engineering, oil and gas, mining, industrial etc.

Mainly for the blue collars.


I assure you, there is a Union that covers you.



Well maybe there is but I have not heard of it and neither have any of my colleagues.


One quick call to the ACTU, and they'll tell you which Union it is.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Ajax
Gold Member
*****
Offline


CO2 has never controlled
temperature on Earth

Posts: 10952
Australia
Gender: male
Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #37 - Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:47am
 
freediver wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:43am:
Ajax he is probably referring to APESMA, IEAUST etc.


Ok fair enough, the IEAUST is not a union.

freediver wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:43am:
Yes. If the number of jobseekers goes down, wages inevitably rise. If they go up, wages go down.

So you think what I say is true, but you don't want it to be true?


That statement is true for any industry.

Your assumption and Milton's theory in the OP are wrong.
Back to top
 

1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery &  prison" Regas Feraeos
 
IP Logged
 
Ajax
Gold Member
*****
Offline


CO2 has never controlled
temperature on Earth

Posts: 10952
Australia
Gender: male
Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #38 - Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:48am
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:44am:
Ajax wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:40am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:37am:
Ajax wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:35am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:32am:
Ajax wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:25am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:06am:
Ajax wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 8:59am:
First I’m not in a union my profession has no union ...


Of course you have a union.

What industry is it?


Lets just say engineering......... Wink

Anymore and I'll have to kill you.


Well, there is both a Union and a Modern Award that covers you.



There are many unions that cover people working in engineering, oil and gas, mining, industrial etc.

Mainly for the blue collars.


I assure you, there is a Union that covers you.



Well maybe there is but I have not heard of it and neither have any of my colleagues.


One quick call to the ACTU, and they'll tell you which Union it is.



Ok Gregg I believe you.
Back to top
 

1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery &  prison" Regas Feraeos
 
IP Logged
 
Dnarever
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 57063
Here
Gender: male
Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #39 - Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:52am
 
freediver wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:29am:
Dnarever wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:19am:
Quote:
seek employment in other industries, and thus drive down wages in those industries.


People seeking employment drives down wages ?


Yes. If the number of jobseekers goes down, wages inevitably rise. If they go up, wages go down.

What exactly is your difficulty with this concept?


It is highly dominated by other factors and in practice does not tend to produce the expected result.

You regularly see employers whine about the lack of employable resources and do not see any increase in wage levels.

One great example may be farm workers you hobby horse where a lack of employees has led to government intervention and cheap off shore labour. The exact opposite of the claim.

Over a lifetime the facts refute the theory very consistently.


Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Online


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 47043
At my desk.
Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #40 - Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:55am
 
Quote:
Your assumption and Milton's theory in the OP are wrong.


Why do you think that?

Quote:
It is highly dominated by other factors and in practice does not tend to produce the expected result.

You regularly see employers whine about the lack of employable resources and do not see any increase in wage levels.


You are confusing spin with reality. I am talking about the reality.

Quote:
One great example may be farm workers you hobby horse where a lack of employees has led to government intervention and cheap off shore labour. The exact opposite of the claim.


This is not the exact opposite. It is entirely consistent with my claim.

By the way, I once had a union rep tell me that allowing more foreigners to enter the Australian workforce in their sector of the economy will increase wages.
Back to top
 

I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT!
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Dnarever
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 57063
Here
Gender: male
Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #41 - Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:56am
 
Ajax wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:48am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:44am:
Ajax wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:40am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:37am:
Ajax wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:35am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:32am:
Ajax wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:25am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:06am:
Ajax wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 8:59am:
First I’m not in a union my profession has no union ...


Of course you have a union.

What industry is it?


Lets just say engineering......... Wink

Anymore and I'll have to kill you.


Well, there is both a Union and a Modern Award that covers you.



There are many unions that cover people working in engineering, oil and gas, mining, industrial etc.

Mainly for the blue collars.


I assure you, there is a Union that covers you.



Well maybe there is but I have not heard of it and neither have any of my colleagues.


One quick call to the ACTU, and they'll tell you which Union it is.



Ok Gregg I believe you.


Can be overed by the industry.

An example would be TV broadcast engineering, covered by the various broadcast awards and relevant unions.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Ajax
Gold Member
*****
Offline


CO2 has never controlled
temperature on Earth

Posts: 10952
Australia
Gender: male
Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #42 - Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:58am
 
freediver wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:55am:
Quote:
Your assumption and Milton's theory in the OP are wrong.


Why do you think that?


Because I've been in the industry for 36 years.

Back to top
 

1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery &  prison" Regas Feraeos
 
IP Logged
 
Ajax
Gold Member
*****
Offline


CO2 has never controlled
temperature on Earth

Posts: 10952
Australia
Gender: male
Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #43 - Oct 3rd, 2020 at 10:00am
 
Dnarever wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:56am:
Can be overed by the industry.

An example would be TV broadcast engineering, covered by the various broadcast awards and relevant unions.


No not in a union, not covered by a union, don't pay any fees to one.
Back to top
 

1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery &  prison" Regas Feraeos
 
IP Logged
 
Dnarever
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 57063
Here
Gender: male
Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #44 - Oct 3rd, 2020 at 10:10am
 
freediver wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:55am:
Quote:
Your assumption and Milton's theory in the OP are wrong.


Why do you think that?

Quote:
It is highly dominated by other factors and in practice does not tend to produce the expected result.

You regularly see employers whine about the lack of employable resources and do not see any increase in wage levels.


You are confusing spin with reality. I am talking about the reality.

Quote:
One great example may be farm workers you hobby horse where a lack of employees has led to government intervention and cheap off shore labour. The exact opposite of the claim.


This is not the exact opposite. It is entirely consistent with my claim.

By the way, I once had a union rep tell me that allowing more foreigners to enter the Australian workforce in their sector of the economy will increase wages.


Not if they are consigned to an under minimum wage exemption.

Quote:
You are confusing spin with reality. I am talking about the reality.


Which is shown by you sticking with unsupported technical theory where and I show real life examples ?

As a wage driver employment demand is one factor.

Balanced against this is:

Affordability.
Economic conditions
Government intervention. (IR)

IR:

The major changes in 1996, 1997, work choices,  Fair Work, Penalty rates decision  etc all worked to drive wage levels down and often crushing the other wage level drivers in the process.

Government IR policy for many decades has been dominated by a desire to prevent other factors having an impact of wage levels and has been successful.

This isn't a secret the Howard government for example openly bragged about their success on wage control.

This means that they were proud of their efforts to stymie market drivers on wages.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 15
Send Topic Print