Australian Politics Forum - About masks...

lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16420 Gender:	Re: About masks... Reply #30 - Sep 26^th, 2020 at 5:27pm John Smith wrote on Sep 26^th, 2020 at 5:21pm: In your case, it happens every time you try to speak Poor petal. Tries to be a wit - but is only half right. But it shows your analogy as fallacious.
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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 72246 Gender:	Re: About masks... Reply #31 - Sep 26^th, 2020 at 6:22pm lee wrote on Sep 26^th, 2020 at 5:27pm: John Smith wrote on Sep 26^th, 2020 at 5:21pm: In your case, it happens every time you try to speak Poor petal. Tries to be a wit - but is only half right. But it shows your analogy as fallacious. All it shows is what an idiot you are.
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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16420 Gender:	Re: About masks... Reply #32 - Sep 26^th, 2020 at 6:51pm John Smith wrote on Sep 26^th, 2020 at 6:22pm: All it shows is what an idiot you are. Poor petal. Is that what you call rebuttal?
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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 72246 Gender:	Re: About masks... Reply #33 - Sep 26^th, 2020 at 7:40pm lee wrote on Sep 26^th, 2020 at 6:51pm: John Smith wrote on Sep 26^th, 2020 at 6:22pm: All it shows is what an idiot you are. Poor petal. Is that what you call rebuttal? Let me guess, you think calling someone 'poor petal' is a rebuttal? right? John Smith wrote on Sep 26^th, 2020 at 6:22pm: All it shows is what an idiot you are.
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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16420 Gender:	Re: About masks... Reply #34 - Sep 26^th, 2020 at 8:22pm John Smith wrote on Sep 26^th, 2020 at 7:40pm: Let me guess, you think calling someone 'poor petal' is a rebuttal? right? Poor petal. No. You have heard of aerosols?? You have heard that these aerosols pass through and around masks? If not rebut that.
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SadKangaroo

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Re: About masks...
Reply #35 - Sep 27^th, 2020 at 3:53pm

On the off chance, Lee is trying to engage in actual good-faith debate I would point him to the majority of transmission being via respiratory droplets which the masks do a fantastic job at limited them entering the environment which is why many of the countries with the lowest transmission rates while at the same time having the lowest levels of restrictions are the ones with near-universal adoption of masks.

There are some medical procedures that can be administered during life-saving treatment that can aerosolise these small particles allowing them to last longer in the air and even be small enough to pass through a standard surgical mask which is why the front line workers have to take greater precautions.

There is growing evidence that the virus may be more airborne than simply respiratory droplets, but this is still an area of research with many unanswered questions. The answers to these questions however will help shape the updating to guidelines around social distancing and other mitigation efforts. It doesn't magically remove the respiratory droplets from the equation meaning masks are no longer required.

If you put this to him, I would expect nothing less than a condescending reply filled with pedantry and no real interest in clearing the air on the subject, he's usually nothing but a troll with a slightly better lexicon than your normal Trumptard.

Good luck friends.

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Dnarever Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 57162 Here Gender:	Re: About masks... Reply #36 - Sep 27^th, 2020 at 4:48pm Neferti wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2020 at 5:20pm: Gordon wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2020 at 5:11pm: There's bacteria on everything. Swab it and grow it and it looks grose. Better on the medics' masks and not your innards! If you swab your teeth or mouth you will get the same thing. The display is meaningless unless you reuse once only masks.
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Dnarever

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Re: About masks...
Reply #37 - Sep 27^th, 2020 at 4:58pm

lee wrote on Sep 26^th, 2020 at 8:22pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 26^th, 2020 at 7:40pm:

Let me guess, you think calling someone 'poor petal' is a rebuttal? right?

Poor petal. No. You have heard of aerosols?? You have heard that these aerosols pass through and around masks? If not rebut that. Roll Eyes

The idea of distancing is to allow the virus particles in the air to drop. The mask stops virus particles from being projected towards people with significant velocity. Stuff does go around the mask in both directions but the odds of it being virus carrying coming in is minimised by distance and the impact of virus particles flowing out around the mask is slow travelling and quickly dropping.

Nobody has said that the mask is a 100% guarantee but in an environment where there is a say 20% possibility of infection the mask likely reduces that 20% by something like 90%+ of the risk.

The medical grade masks are a lot better with good seals to prevent unfiltered leakage in or out.

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lee

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Re: About masks...
Reply #38 - Sep 27^th, 2020 at 5:01pm

SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 27^th, 2020 at 3:53pm:

There is growing evidence that the virus may be more airborne than simply respiratory droplets, but this is still an area of research with many unanswered questions.

Nope. Aerosols were touted as being too small for simple cloth masks early on in the piece.

"In April a scientific panel sent a letter to the White House saying that “studies are consistent with aerosolization from normal breathing.”2

"In July two scientists published a commentary in Clinical Infectious Diseases saying it was time “to recognize the potential for airborne spread … There is significant potential for inhalation exposure to viruses in microscopic respiratory droplets (microdroplets) at short to medium distances (up to several meters, or room scale) and we are advocating for the use of preventive measures.”3

Two other scientists said in the Washington Post that the CDC was wrong and that airborne transmission had been known for months. Joseph Allen from Harvard’s school of public health and Linsey Marr from Virginia Tech’s engineering department, wrote, “Many scientists have known that airborne transmission of the virus was happening since February. The CDC somehow failed to recognize the accumulating evidence that airborne transmission is important and therefore failed to alert the public . . . When you talk or sing—or even just breathe—you emit a range of particles of different sizes.” Some particles are large and fall to the ground within 6 feet, but “there are also thousands of particles that are smaller than five microns. Such particles stay aloft for minutes to hours and can travel all the way across a room on natural air currents.”4.

https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3739

Still in draft mode September.

CDC on cloth masks -

"Materials

Two 10”x6” rectangles of cotton fabric
Two 6” pieces of elastic (or rubber bands, string, cloth strips, or hair ties)
Needle and thread (or bobby pin)
Scissors
Sewing machine"

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/how-to-make-cloth...

July 6 And nothing about how tight the cotton fabric should be.

SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 27^th, 2020 at 3:53pm:

If you put this to him, I would expect nothing less than a condescending reply filled with pedantry and no real interest in clearing the air on the subject, he's usually nothing but a troll with a slightly better lexicon than your normal Trumptard.

Talk about lexiconese that says nothing. Talk about being slow. Known since February and still in draft form.

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Dnarever

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Re: About masks...
Reply #39 - Sep 27^th, 2020 at 5:08pm

lee wrote on Sep 27^th, 2020 at 5:01pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 27^th, 2020 at 3:53pm:

There is growing evidence that the virus may be more airborne than simply respiratory droplets, but this is still an area of research with many unanswered questions.

Nope. Aerosols were touted as being too small for simple cloth masks early on in the piece.

"In April a scientific panel sent a letter to the White House saying that “studies are consistent with aerosolization from normal breathing.”2

"In July two scientists published a commentary in Clinical Infectious Diseases saying it was time “to recognize the potential for airborne spread … There is significant potential for inhalation exposure to viruses in microscopic respiratory droplets (microdroplets) at short to medium distances (up to several meters, or room scale) and we are advocating for the use of preventive measures.”3

Two other scientists said in the Washington Post that the CDC was wrong and that airborne transmission had been known for months. Joseph Allen from Harvard’s school of public health and Linsey Marr from Virginia Tech’s engineering department, wrote, “Many scientists have known that airborne transmission of the virus was happening since February. The CDC somehow failed to recognize the accumulating evidence that airborne transmission is important and therefore failed to alert the public . . . When you talk or sing—or even just breathe—you emit a range of particles of different sizes.” Some particles are large and fall to the ground within 6 feet, but “there are also thousands of particles that are smaller than five microns. Such particles stay aloft for minutes to hours and can travel all the way across a room on natural air currents.”4.

https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3739

Still in draft mode September.

CDC on cloth masks -

"Materials

Two 10”x6” rectangles of cotton fabric
Two 6” pieces of elastic (or rubber bands, string, cloth strips, or hair ties)
Needle and thread (or bobby pin)
Scissors
Sewing machine"

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/how-to-make-cloth...

July 6 And nothing about how tight the cotton fabric should be.

SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 27^th, 2020 at 3:53pm:

If you put this to him, I would expect nothing less than a condescending reply filled with pedantry and no real interest in clearing the air on the subject, he's usually nothing but a troll with a slightly better lexicon than your normal Trumptard.

Talk about lexiconese that says nothing. Talk about being slow. Known since February and still in draft form.

Quote:

Talk about lexiconese that says nothing

While on the topic - I went through you posts on this topic and cannot find where you have said anything ?

Do you have an opinion about this you would like to share ?

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lee

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Re: About masks...
Reply #40 - Sep 27^th, 2020 at 5:20pm

Dnarever wrote on Sep 27^th, 2020 at 5:08pm:

While on the topic - I went through you posts on this topic and cannot find where you have said anything ?

It was originally posted -
"10 General Discussion / Coronavirus / Re: Hydroxychloroquine: The Key to Defeating COVID-19
on: Yesterday at 11:42am "

Dnarever wrote on Sep 27^th, 2020 at 5:08pm:

Do you have an opinion about this you would like to share ?

Yes. I was originally wrong. It should have been back to February. I think that is far too slow. You? Wink

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Sophia

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Re: About masks...
Reply #41 - Sep 27^th, 2020 at 6:37pm

lee wrote on Sep 27^th, 2020 at 5:01pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 27^th, 2020 at 3:53pm:

There is growing evidence that the virus may be more airborne than simply respiratory droplets, but this is still an area of research with many unanswered questions.

Nope. Aerosols were touted as being too small for simple cloth masks early on in the piece.

"In April a scientific panel sent a letter to the White House saying that “studies are consistent with aerosolization from normal breathing.”2

"In July two scientists published a commentary in Clinical Infectious Diseases saying it was time “to recognize the potential for airborne spread … There is significant potential for inhalation exposure to viruses in microscopic respiratory droplets (microdroplets) at short to medium distances (up to several meters, or room scale) and we are advocating for the use of preventive measures.”3

Two other scientists said in the Washington Post that the CDC was wrong and that airborne transmission had been known for months. Joseph Allen from Harvard’s school of public health and Linsey Marr from Virginia Tech’s engineering department, wrote, “Many scientists have known that airborne transmission of the virus was happening since February. The CDC somehow failed to recognize the accumulating evidence that airborne transmission is important and therefore failed to alert the public . . . When you talk or sing—or even just breathe—you emit a range of particles of different sizes.” Some particles are large and fall to the ground within 6 feet, but “there are also thousands of particles that are smaller than five microns. Such particles stay aloft for minutes to hours and can travel all the way across a room on natural air currents.”4.

https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3739

Still in draft mode September.

CDC on cloth masks -

"Materials

Two 10”x6” rectangles of cotton fabric
Two 6” pieces of elastic (or rubber bands, string, cloth strips, or hair ties)
Needle and thread (or bobby pin)
Scissors
Sewing machine"

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/how-to-make-cloth...

July 6 And nothing about how tight the cotton fabric should.

I have looked at many patterns online and this one above was probably a quick makeshift suggestion at a time when not many masks (or people remotely owning a sew machine) were available.
Trouble with that pattern is no bendy pipe cleaner on bridge of nose sewn in to pinch mask closed and helps prevent glasses fogging up or from mask riding up to hit eyes, hence encouraging constant touching for adjustment.
If made too tight it hurts/irritates the ears.

The masks I make are contoured down from bridge of nose so eyes have a good clearance.
I make them with option to have it held behind ears or tie behind head, which is the most comfortable.
I sew and have overlocker and sewing machine therefore it’s easy for me to be flexible with patterns and fabrics.
The general population needed something quick back then during the panic...amidst lack of PPE so it was better than nothing, bandanas are good too.

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John Smith

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Re: About masks...
Reply #42 - Sep 27^th, 2020 at 8:27pm

lee wrote on Sep 26^th, 2020 at 8:22pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 26^th, 2020 at 7:40pm:

Let me guess, you think calling someone 'poor petal' is a rebuttal? right?

Poor petal. No. You have heard of aerosols?? You have heard that these aerosols pass through and around masks? If not rebut that. Roll Eyes

Why would I rebut your stupidity? DO you think I'm here to educate you? I put up a diagram that even most idiots could follow ... if you are to stupid to understand that then you are simply beyond help.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 72246 Gender:	Re: About masks... Reply #43 - Sep 27^th, 2020 at 8:28pm SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 27^th, 2020 at 3:53pm: On the off chance, Lee is trying to engage in actual good-faith debate and pigs might fly
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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16420 Gender:	Re: About masks... Reply #44 - Sep 27^th, 2020 at 8:33pm John Smith wrote on Sep 27^th, 2020 at 8:27pm: I put up a diagram that even most idiots could follow .... if you are to stupid to understand that then you are simply beyond help. So the resident idiot put up something even he could understand.
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