Australian Politics Forum - What are the Defence Forces for?

Brian Ross

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What are the Defence Forces for?
Sep 23^rd, 2020 at 12:13pm

Australian defence force needs more funding to juggle national disasters and military role, inquiry told

Yes that is correct. They were not structured, trained or equipped for sustained disaster efforts. "In the old days" most support was logistic - sandbags and the like - and they were on repayment from the states (though they probably got roundabout funding from the Feds). Occasionally plant would be dispatched (though how that was paid for I never got involved in). Darwin and the pilots strike were exceptional events - not seen since "the last big one" - though they are likely to be involved in more Darwins....

Now they are looking to sustain a additional role above the preparation for and conduct of war fighting, generally with and in a coalition though you never know...

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 95495 Melbourne Gender:	Re: What are the Defence Forces for? Reply #1 - Sep 23^rd, 2020 at 12:19pm The ADF is so puny that it could never rebuff an attack from a superpower like China. It's there just as a morale booster for the people to think that we aren't defenseless. Therefore at least their disaster efforts provide some good for all the money we spend.
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Mr Hammer Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 25212 Gender:	Re: What are the Defence Forces for? Reply #2 - Sep 23^rd, 2020 at 12:56pm The ADF offers career choices. Don't worry about bullets. The modern army is not into wars and stuff like that.
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Brian Ross Moderator Offline Representative of me Posts: 39581	Re: What are the Defence Forces for? Reply #3 - Sep 24^th, 2020 at 5:32pm Mr Hammer wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2020 at 12:56pm: The ADF offers career choices. Don't worry about bullets. The modern army is not into wars and stuff like that. Isn't it Hammer? And you know, how, exactly? You've never served a day in uniform, have you? Tsk, tsk
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Brian Ross

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Re: What are the Defence Forces for?
Reply #4 - Sep 24^th, 2020 at 5:33pm

Bobby. wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2020 at 12:19pm:

The ADF is so puny that it could never rebuff an attack from a
superpower like China.
It's there just as a morale booster for the people
to think that we aren't defenseless.

Therefore at least their disaster efforts provide some good for all the money we spend.

China is not lurking, just beyond the horizon, Bobby. We have discussed this, at length, several times. It seems you just will not understand how remote Australia is and how pitiful the Chinese forces are for amphibious operations. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

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Belgarion

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Re: What are the Defence Forces for?
Reply #5 - Sep 24^th, 2020 at 5:37pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2020 at 12:13pm:

Australian defence force needs more funding to juggle national disasters and military role, inquiry told

Yes that is correct. They were not structured, trained or equipped for sustained disaster efforts. "In the old days" most support was logistic - sandbags and the like - and they were on repayment from the states (though they probably got roundabout funding from the Feds). Occasionally plant would be dispatched (though how that was paid for I never got involved in). Darwin and the pilots strike were exceptional events - not seen since "the last big one" - though they are likely to be involved in more Darwins....

Now they are looking to sustain a additional role above the preparation for and conduct of war fighting, generally with and in a coalition though you never know...

Assistance in natural disasters is an ongoing commitment for the ADF, but it is not the primary role. There must be no compromising of operational ability in order to provide support in natural disasters. As someone suggested in another forum, the best way to achieve such support would be better funding and training for the RFS and SES, not by compromising the role of the ADF.

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"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

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Belgarion Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5310 Gender:	Re: What are the Defence Forces for? Reply #6 - Sep 24^th, 2020 at 5:39pm Mr Hammer wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2020 at 12:56pm: The ADF offers career choices. Don't worry about bullets. The modern army is not into wars and stuff like that. I'm sure the dead and wounded of ADF operations over the last 30 years would disagree.
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Brian Ross

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Re: What are the Defence Forces for?
Reply #7 - Sep 24^th, 2020 at 5:45pm

Belgarion wrote on Sep 24^th, 2020 at 5:37pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2020 at 12:13pm:

Australian defence force needs more funding to juggle national disasters and military role, inquiry told

Yes that is correct. They were not structured, trained or equipped for sustained disaster efforts. "In the old days" most support was logistic - sandbags and the like - and they were on repayment from the states (though they probably got roundabout funding from the Feds). Occasionally plant would be dispatched (though how that was paid for I never got involved in). Darwin and the pilots strike were exceptional events - not seen since "the last big one" - though they are likely to be involved in more Darwins....

Now they are looking to sustain a additional role above the preparation for and conduct of war fighting, generally with and in a coalition though you never know...

Assistance in natural disasters is an ongoing commitment for the ADF, but it is not the primary role. There must be no compromising of operational ability in order to provide support in natural disasters. As someone suggested in another forum, the best way to achieve such support would be better funding and training for the RFS and SES, not by compromising the role of the ADF.

That would be nice but how unlikely is it? After Ash Wednesday, Government made it easier for businesses to donate to the CFS in South Australia/Victoria. Suddenly all these new firetrucks appeared, replacing the old ones dating from the 1940/50s. New radios appeared. New systems were instituted. Didn't extend beyond those states' borders though. What is needed is a proper, national approach, something for all the state services to profit from. Better advertising for recruitment. Even, if absolutely necessary, a form of "national service" for the youngsters.

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Bobby.

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Re: What are the Defence Forces for?
Reply #8 - Sep 24^th, 2020 at 6:27pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 24^th, 2020 at 5:33pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2020 at 12:19pm:

The ADF is so puny that it could never rebuff an attack from a
superpower like China.
It's there just as a morale booster for the people
to think that we aren't defenseless.

Therefore at least their disaster efforts provide some good for all the money we spend.

China is not lurking, just beyond the horizon, Bobby. We have discussed this, at length, several times. It seems you just will not understand how remote Australia is and how pitiful the Chinese forces are for amphibious operations. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

China has the largest navy in the world.
tsk tsk Roll Eyes

https://www.naval-technology.com/features/china-boasts-worlds-largest-navy-us-do...

The US Department of Defense (DoD) has released its ‘2020 China Military Power Report’ showing that the People’s Republic of China (PRC) has the largest navy in the world, surpassing the US Navy.

China’s fleet breakdown

Aircraft carriers – 2
Cruisers – 1
Destroyers – 32
Frigates – 49
Corvettes – 37
Amphibious transport dock – 37
Medium landing ships – 21
Diesel attack submarines – 46
Nuclear attack submarines – 6
Ballistic missile submarines – 4
Coastal patrol (missile) – 86

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Brian Ross

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Re: What are the Defence Forces for?
Reply #9 - Sep 24^th, 2020 at 10:15pm

Bobby. wrote on Sep 24^th, 2020 at 6:27pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 24^th, 2020 at 5:33pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2020 at 12:19pm:

The ADF is so puny that it could never rebuff an attack from a
superpower like China.
It's there just as a morale booster for the people
to think that we aren't defenseless.

Therefore at least their disaster efforts provide some good for all the money we spend.

China is not lurking, just beyond the horizon, Bobby. We have discussed this, at length, several times. It seems you just will not understand how remote Australia is and how pitiful the Chinese forces are for amphibious operations. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

China has the largest navy in the world.

The size of their navy isn't important, Bobby. Their lack of experience in long range operations is far more important. Their lack of experience in amphibious operations is as important. When they gain them, you will have a reason to worry. Of course, one wonders why they would bother to invade Australia, so far from China? Afterall, there isn't much that we won't sell them... Roll Eyes

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Bobby.

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Re: What are the Defence Forces for?
Reply #10 - Sep 25^th, 2020 at 6:17am

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 24^th, 2020 at 10:15pm:

The size of their navy isn't important, Bobby. Their lack of experience in long range operations is far more important. Their lack of experience in amphibious operations is as important. When they gain them, you will have a reason to worry. Of course, one wonders why they would bother to invade Australia, so far from China? Afterall, there isn't much that we won't sell them... Roll Eyes

dear Brian,
there is an old saying -

"never underestimate your opponent"

We seem to have an out of control arms race
being driven by China.
History tells us that it will lead to war.
Why can't we have an arms reduction treaty in South East Asia?

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Brian Ross

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Re: What are the Defence Forces for?
Reply #11 - Sep 25^th, 2020 at 4:03pm

Bobby. wrote on Sep 25^th, 2020 at 6:17am:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 24^th, 2020 at 10:15pm:

The size of their navy isn't important, Bobby. Their lack of experience in long range operations is far more important. Their lack of experience in amphibious operations is as important. When they gain them, you will have a reason to worry. Of course, one wonders why they would bother to invade Australia, so far from China? Afterall, there isn't much that we won't sell them... Roll Eyes

dear Brian,
there is an old saying -

"never underestimate your opponent"

I am not underestimating them, Bobby. I am taking a long, hard look at them and I recognise their deficiencies, far more than you do. You seem to believe that simply buying a toy automatically makes them capable of operating it effectively. I don't.

Quote:

We seem to have an out of control arms race
being driven by China.
History tells us that it will lead to war.
Why can't we have an arms reduction treaty in South East Asia?

'cause neither the PRC or the US wants it, Bobby. Roll Eyes

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« Last Edit: Sep 25^th, 2020 at 5:11pm by Brian Ross »

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Bobby.

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Re: What are the Defence Forces for?
Reply #12 - Sep 25^th, 2020 at 8:57pm

Quote:

I am not underestimating them, Bobby. I am taking a long, hard look at them and I recognise their deficiencies, far more than you do. You seem to believe that simply buying a toy automatically makes them capable of operating it effectively. I don't.

They are training -
they are learning and getting better every day.

Quote:

'cause neither the PRC or the US wants it, Bobby. Roll Eyes

Then we have to go to the United Nations and form an alliance with
other countries that also want an arms reduction treaty.
We have to at least try.
Standing by watching and doing nothing is not an option.
ScoMo needs to grow a set of balls.

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Brian Ross

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Re: What are the Defence Forces for?
Reply #13 - Sep 25^th, 2020 at 9:23pm

Bobby. wrote on Sep 25^th, 2020 at 8:57pm:

Quote:

I am not underestimating them, Bobby. I am taking a long, hard look at them and I recognise their deficiencies, far more than you do. You seem to believe that simply buying a toy automatically makes them capable of operating it effectively. I don't.

They are training -
they are learning and getting better every day.

So, they are incapable of attacking Australia today, or tomorrow or even the next day, Bobby? Roll Eyes

Quote:

'cause neither the PRC or the US wants it, Bobby. Roll Eyes

Then we have to go to the United Nations and form an alliance with
other countries that also want an arms reduction treaty.
We have to at least try.
Standing by watching and doing nothing is not an option.
ScoMo needs to grow a set of balls.

Who is el Presidente' at the moment? Who is PM, Bobby. Not going to happen from this end... Roll Eyes

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Bobby.

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Re: What are the Defence Forces for?
Reply #14 - Sep 25^th, 2020 at 9:25pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 25^th, 2020 at 9:23pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 25^th, 2020 at 8:57pm:

Quote:

I am not underestimating them, Bobby. I am taking a long, hard look at them and I recognise their deficiencies, far more than you do. You seem to believe that simply buying a toy automatically makes them capable of operating it effectively. I don't.

They are training -
they are learning and getting better every day.

So, they are incapable of attacking Australia today, or tomorrow or even the next day, Bobby? Roll Eyes

Quote:

'cause neither the PRC or the US wants it, Bobby. Roll Eyes

Then we have to go to the United Nations and form an alliance with
other countries that also want an arms reduction treaty.
We have to at least try.
Standing by watching and doing nothing is not an option.
ScoMo needs to grow a set of balls.

Who is el Presidente' at the moment? Who is PM, Bobby. Not going to happen from this end... Roll Eyes

If an arms reduction treaty is not forced upon China
and maybe the USA too - then the result will be a war.

Should we do nothing?

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