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Captain Nemo

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What a Gas!
Sep 15^th, 2020 at 1:39pm

I'm actually in favour of renewable energy - an early adopter of Solar panels ...

However ...

I do acknowledge that we are stuck with gas for quite a while to come.

Not only because the dispatchable power needs are going to be with us for decades until battery storage comes up to standard ...

but the task of removing / converting gas powered appliances across the nation is going to take a very long time.

I estimate it could take between 15 and 30 years to get the task done if it was made the most high priority task starting now.

Every gas heater; gas cook-top; gas hot water heater; gas oven ... from every house where they are installed.

Blimey ... it's a big job.

The NBN rollout for example took a decade and that was a much simpler task compared to getting rid of all gas powered appliances nationally.

What happens in the meantime if we turn off the gas supply? Shocked

So ... sorry to say it but we are going to need fossil fuels (gas) for quite a while yet. Sad

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« Last Edit: Sep 15^th, 2020 at 1:46pm by Captain Nemo »

The 2025 election could be a shocker.

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Gordon Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20223 Gordon Gender:	Re: What a Gas! Reply #1 - Sep 15^th, 2020 at 1:58pm What a pity nuclear has been so stigmatised as it should be the backbone of the power grid. Also I don't think batteries will ever be viable option for grid levels of power. Excess solar/wind converted to hydrogen then back to electricity when needed is a much better idea.
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Prime Minister for Canyons Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 26906 Canberra Gender:	Re: What a Gas! Reply #2 - Sep 15^th, 2020 at 3:20pm Gordon wrote on Sep 15^th, 2020 at 1:58pm: What a pity nuclear has been so stigmatised as it should be the backbone of the power grid. Also I don't think batteries will ever be viable option for grid levels of power. Excess solar/wind converted to hydrogen then back to electricity when needed is a much better idea. Greenie
Back to top	In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act. No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy) IP Logged

Gordon

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Re: What a Gas!
Reply #3 - Sep 15^th, 2020 at 3:25pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Sep 15^th, 2020 at 3:20pm:

Gordon wrote on Sep 15^th, 2020 at 1:58pm:

What a pity nuclear has been so stigmatised as it should be the backbone of the power grid.

Also I don't think batteries will ever be viable option for grid levels of power.

Excess solar/wind converted to hydrogen then back to electricity when needed is a much better idea.

Greenie

There's a difference between being a greenie to politically neutral on what ever energy turns out to be cheapest/cleanest.

The US democrats are putting nuclear back on the table and I agree with that.

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IBI

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Prime Minister for Canyons

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Re: What a Gas!
Reply #4 - Sep 15^th, 2020 at 3:28pm

Gordon wrote on Sep 15^th, 2020 at 3:25pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Sep 15^th, 2020 at 3:20pm:

Gordon wrote on Sep 15^th, 2020 at 1:58pm:

What a pity nuclear has been so stigmatised as it should be the backbone of the power grid.

Also I don't think batteries will ever be viable option for grid levels of power.

Excess solar/wind converted to hydrogen then back to electricity when needed is a much better idea.

Greenie

There's a difference between being a greenie to politically neutral on what ever energy turns out to be cheapest/cleanest.

The US democrats are putting nuclear back on the table and I agree with that.

Thats true, I agree I just know what some of the usual suspects will think.

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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Gordon

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Re: What a Gas!
Reply #5 - Sep 15^th, 2020 at 3:31pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Sep 15^th, 2020 at 3:28pm:

Gordon wrote on Sep 15^th, 2020 at 3:25pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Sep 15^th, 2020 at 3:20pm:

Gordon wrote on Sep 15^th, 2020 at 1:58pm:

What a pity nuclear has been so stigmatised as it should be the backbone of the power grid.

Also I don't think batteries will ever be viable option for grid levels of power.

Excess solar/wind converted to hydrogen then back to electricity when needed is a much better idea.

Greenie

There's a difference between being a greenie to politically neutral on what ever energy turns out to be cheapest/cleanest.

The US democrats are putting nuclear back on the table and I agree with that.

Thats true, I agree I just know what some of the usual suspects will think.

Well I'm not a usual suspect, I don't carry a grab bag of ideologies from any side.

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IBI

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Gordon Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20223 Gordon Gender:	Re: What a Gas! Reply #6 - Sep 15^th, 2020 at 3:34pm BTW, I reckon the most important reasons we should get off fossil fuels (particular oil) is pollution, politics and in last place, CO2/AGW.
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Valkie

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Re: What a Gas!
Reply #7 - Sep 15^th, 2020 at 5:54pm

This whole exercise is a play to get fracking in Australia.

They deliberately orchestrate a gas shortage, by shipping gas off shore as a fraction of what we pay.

Then offer to supply plenty of gas for power stations

AS LONG AS THEY CAN FRACK THE GAS.

And the politicians are all going for it.

The sheeple have been duped.

And we will have what groundwater we have polluted and contaminated .

Of course the company involved will be dissolved

The multinationals will hide and the profits will all be absorbed by other companies.

The Australian people will die slowly of cancer and our politicians and public servants will go elsewhere to get away.

If this does happen.

We must chase these creatures down and destroy them.

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I HAVE A DREAM
A WONDERFUL, PEACEFUL, BEAUTIFUL DREAM.
A DREAM OF A WORLD THAT HAS NEVER KNOWN ISLAM
A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM.

SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM
O HOW I WISH IT WERE TRU

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Proud pre-1850's NO Voter
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Re: What a Gas!
Reply #8 - Sep 16^th, 2020 at 12:37am

Valkie wrote on Sep 15^th, 2020 at 5:54pm:

This whole exercise is a play to get fracking in Australia.

They deliberately orchestrate a gas shortage, by shipping gas off shore as a fraction of what we pay.

Then offer to supply plenty of gas for power stations

AS LONG AS THEY CAN FRACK THE GAS.

And the politicians are all going for it.

The sheeple have been duped.

And we will have what groundwater we have polluted and contaminated .

Of course the company involved will be dissolved

The multinationals will hide and the profits will all be absorbed by other companies.

The Australian people will die slowly of cancer and our politicians and public servants will go elsewhere to get away.

If this does happen.

We must chase these creatures down and destroy them.

Sealed ALDI bags left under the coffee shop table to pick up??

And I once thought my perambulations through the Third World had revealed what 'other' cultures are like..... Honey - I'm HO-OME! And it's no farken different here ...

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Bam

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Re: What a Gas!
Reply #9 - Sep 16^th, 2020 at 4:48pm

Gordon wrote on Sep 15^th, 2020 at 1:58pm:

What a pity nuclear has been so stigmatised as it should be the backbone of the power grid.

Wealthy people consume more electricity per capita, so let's build a nuclear power plant in the back of Vaucluse to balance the load better and reduce transmission losses.

Gordon wrote on Sep 15^th, 2020 at 1:58pm:

Also I don't think batteries will ever be viable option for grid levels of power.

You're still thinking of the 1950s model of remote power stations generating all the electricity for millions of customers. The power grid of the future will be very different. It may not even exist at all. Once people can generate and store 100% of their energy, they will do so and go off grid.

We have already reached the point where it is cheaper to pay some people in remote locations to go off grid and decommission power transmission lines than it is to pay to maintain those power lines for these remote customers.

Western Australia Utility Removing Poles & Wires In Renewable Energy Transition

Gordon wrote on Sep 15^th, 2020 at 1:58pm:

Excess solar/wind converted to hydrogen then back to electricity when needed is a much better idea.

No it isn't. Hydrogen has significant storage problems because it is easily lost to diffusion. This is why a hydrogen car is difficult - it's not the fuel cells themselves that are the problem, but the storage of the hydrogen.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Bam Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21905 Gender:	Re: What a Gas! Reply #10 - Sep 16^th, 2020 at 4:53pm Gordon wrote on Sep 15^th, 2020 at 3:34pm: BTW, I reckon the most important reasons we should get off fossil fuels (particular oil) is pollution, politics and in last place, CO2/AGW. As long as civilisation is dependent on energy that must be mined and not harvested, civilisation is not sustainable.
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Jasin

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Re: What a Gas!
Reply #11 - Sep 16^th, 2020 at 4:59pm

Captain Nemo wrote on Sep 15^th, 2020 at 1:39pm:

I'm actually in favour of renewable energy - an early adopter of Solar panels ...

However ...

I do acknowledge that we are stuck with gas for quite a while to come.

Not only because the dispatchable power needs are going to be with us for decades until battery storage comes up to standard ...

but the task of removing / converting gas powered appliances across the nation is going to take a very long time.

I estimate it could take between 15 and 30 years to get the task done if it was made the most high priority task starting now.

Every gas heater; gas cook-top; gas hot water heater; gas oven ... from every house where they are installed.

Blimey ... it's a big job.

The NBN rollout for example took a decade and that was a much simpler task compared to getting rid of all gas powered appliances nationally.

What happens in the meantime if we turn off the gas supply? Shocked

So ... sorry to say it but we are going to need fossil fuels (gas) for quite a while yet. Sad

To think Pre-Corona Prime Ministers scuttled all our Gas and Petrol Refineries mostly - like everything, shipped overseas to be processed. Now we are forced to run our own show.

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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Captain Nemo

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Re: What a Gas!
Reply #12 - Sep 20^th, 2020 at 10:14am

An interesting remark on Insiders today ...

The claim was that the country's biggest battery array (the one in S.A.) if operating at peak output can supply S.A. with electricity for ...

wait for it ...

One hour. Cheesy

Is that true? Shocked

I have read that the array discharges only 30mwh and holds the rest in reserve ... so about 1 to 2 % of peak demand?

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« Last Edit: Sep 20^th, 2020 at 10:36am by Captain Nemo »

The 2025 election could be a shocker.

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Jest

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Re: What a Gas!
Reply #13 - Sep 20^th, 2020 at 12:10pm

Captain Nemo wrote on Sep 20^th, 2020 at 10:14am:

An interesting remark on Insiders today ...

The claim was that the country's biggest battery array (the one in S.A.) if operating at peak output can supply S.A. with electricity for ...

wait for it ...

One hour. Cheesy

Is that true? Shocked

I have read that the array discharges only 30mwh and holds the rest in reserve ... so about 1 to 2 % of peak demand?

That was that charlatan Leon Musk wasn't it?

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Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.

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