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If Capitalism is so great........ (Read 3093 times)
Dnarever
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Re: If Capitalism is so great........
Reply #45 - Sep 16th, 2020 at 7:20pm
 
Frank wrote on Sep 16th, 2020 at 6:44pm:
Jest wrote on Sep 16th, 2020 at 2:10pm:
Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 14th, 2020 at 5:44pm:
Quote:
10. Rising living standards.

Capitalism has contributed to rising living standards and fall in absolute poverty. Since China and other countries of south-east Asia became more ‘capitalist and free market, their economies have grown leading to a rise in living standards and a fall in levels of poverty.


The so called private enterprise "Think Tanks"/"Institutes" (for which you should really substitute the words "Propaganda Cells") spend a mottza putting stats and graphs like this together for dissemination all over the web. And its very much like the stats and graphs you get from the Feminist Movement and Race Activist Movements. They selectively choose the factors which they say make out their case so that, for example, within a few days of the Covid epidemic surfacing they tell us that Covid disproportionately hurts women/black people/Trans people. The other day I even saw an all female science study claim that micro plastics in the Oceans disproportionately hurts women.  Truth is self serving interest groups like the IPA make this sh*t up. 

And most importantly note that the caption states "Capitalism has contributed to rising living standards and fall in absolute poverty..." Of course you got to ask; What does "contributed" mean and more importantly again, which economic system was the other "contributor" in all this.China and India accounts for over  half the worlds population & their socialist & mixed socialist economies are the major reason for bring their peoples out of poverty. Just imagine the level of poverty that we would  have in China and India today if after WW2 China and India were neoliberal capitalist countries. The misery would be unfathomable to us 


It is the wrong end of the stick you are hanging onto there, pal, rather desperately. You are completely wrong.  There was famine and misery in both China and India - and everywhere else - while they were pursuing 'scientific socialist' and Marxist policies in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s.  Only when they turned away from 'scientific socialism' did they start turning things around. Socialism is a guaranteed failure, economically and culturally and socially.

Socialism is Orwellian Newspeak for 'we are completely fcvked, how do we get out of this godawful mess '. every evidence from history supports that assessment.

Show us successful socialism by way of disproving my point.




It seems to work in the US ?

Capitalism only survives when socialism bails it out every decade or so. In fact every time that capitalism gets itself into trouble.

Capitalism seems to be at its best just after socialism bails it out and stays strong again till capitalism fails. Every time the going gets tough the US turn to social policy for the wealthy. 
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Jest
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Re: If Capitalism is so great........
Reply #46 - Sep 16th, 2020 at 8:21pm
 
Frank wrote on Sep 16th, 2020 at 6:44pm:
Jest wrote on Sep 16th, 2020 at 2:10pm:
Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 14th, 2020 at 5:44pm:
Quote:
10. Rising living standards.

Capitalism has contributed to rising living standards and fall in absolute poverty. Since China and other countries of south-east Asia became more ‘capitalist and free market, their economies have grown leading to a rise in living standards and a fall in levels of poverty.


The so called private enterprise "Think Tanks"/"Institutes" (for which you should really substitute the words "Propaganda Cells") spend a mottza putting stats and graphs like this together for dissemination all over the web. And its very much like the stats and graphs you get from the Feminist Movement and Race Activist Movements. They selectively choose the factors which they say make out their case so that, for example, within a few days of the Covid epidemic surfacing they tell us that Covid disproportionately hurts women/black people/Trans people. The other day I even saw an all female science study claim that micro plastics in the Oceans disproportionately hurts women.  Truth is self serving interest groups like the IPA make this sh*t up. 

And most importantly note that the caption states "Capitalism has contributed to rising living standards and fall in absolute poverty..." Of course you got to ask; What does "contributed" mean and more importantly again, which economic system was the other "contributor" in all this.China and India accounts for over  half the worlds population & their socialist & mixed socialist economies are the major reason for bring their peoples out of poverty. Just imagine the level of poverty that we would  have in China and India today if after WW2 China and India were neoliberal capitalist countries. The misery would be unfathomable to us 


It is the wrong end of the stick you are hanging onto there, pal, rather desperately. You are completely wrong.  There was famine and misery in both China and India - and everywhere else - while they were pursuing 'scientific socialist' and Marxist policies in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s.  Only when they turned away from 'scientific socialism' did they start turning things around. Socialism is a guaranteed failure, economically and culturally and socially.

Socialism is Orwellian Newspeak for 'we are completely fcvked, how do we get out of this godawful mess '. every evidence from history supports that assessment.

Show us successful socialism by way of disproving my point.



Your entirely wrong and your cold war propaganda wont make you right. The Chinese have endured famine for their whole history including their pre WW2 capitalist history exacerbated by the fact that their population is huge. Even in small countries like Ireland under British rule (Britain being the most developed capitalist country of the day) saw over a million people die from starvation during the potato blight.

And this is what Wikipedia says about india "Famine had been a recurrent feature of life the Indian sub-continental countries of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh, most notoriously during British rule. Famines in India resulted in more than 60 million deaths over the course of the 18th, 19th, and early 20th centuries. Famines in British India were severe enough to have a substantial impact on the long-term population growth of the country in the 19th and early 20th centuries." . And in America I see there are claims that 7 million people died of starvation during the Great Depression and one of your so called "Think Tanks" say "No, no it wasn't starvation but malnutrition". Really? Im sure they don't make that distinction when they give us their China numbers. 

I have no doubt that mistakes and bad judgments were made along the way in Britain, China (eg the Great Leap forward, though that was not the only reason but the propaganda machine pretends it was), India and the rest of the Capitalist/Socialist world. Is it the fault of the respective systems. Well you'll get a different answer depending on which ideology they're pushing. The other thing you have to remember is that China didnt start developing until after WW2 when socialism developed the country and underdeveloped countries are a lot more vulnerable to famine esp when they have huge populations like China and India).   

China is where China is (overtaking America in prosperity) because of socialism. Thats because a planned economy works much better than a haphazard, shot in the dark market economy riddled by continuous boom and bust cycles. Of course once the Country started getting rich those in the party decided that an easing of socialist principles (Communism with Chinese characteristics) was a good thing because it made Party officials Rich. But most of china's infrastructure and facilities are still Govt owned and run. India, like Australia, went through a process of private enterprise plundering the richest and best Public Assets in the 90s but there's no denying (though you will deny it) that it was the public sector that put the Australian and Indian economies on their feet in the first place (Esp India)
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Frank
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Re: If Capitalism is so great........
Reply #47 - Sep 16th, 2020 at 9:23pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Sep 16th, 2020 at 7:20pm:
Frank wrote on Sep 16th, 2020 at 6:44pm:
Jest wrote on Sep 16th, 2020 at 2:10pm:
Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 14th, 2020 at 5:44pm:
Quote:
10. Rising living standards.

Capitalism has contributed to rising living standards and fall in absolute poverty. Since China and other countries of south-east Asia became more ‘capitalist and free market, their economies have grown leading to a rise in living standards and a fall in levels of poverty.


The so called private enterprise "Think Tanks"/"Institutes" (for which you should really substitute the words "Propaganda Cells") spend a mottza putting stats and graphs like this together for dissemination all over the web. And its very much like the stats and graphs you get from the Feminist Movement and Race Activist Movements. They selectively choose the factors which they say make out their case so that, for example, within a few days of the Covid epidemic surfacing they tell us that Covid disproportionately hurts women/black people/Trans people. The other day I even saw an all female science study claim that micro plastics in the Oceans disproportionately hurts women.  Truth is self serving interest groups like the IPA make this sh*t up. 

And most importantly note that the caption states "Capitalism has contributed to rising living standards and fall in absolute poverty..." Of course you got to ask; What does "contributed" mean and more importantly again, which economic system was the other "contributor" in all this.China and India accounts for over  half the worlds population & their socialist & mixed socialist economies are the major reason for bring their peoples out of poverty. Just imagine the level of poverty that we would  have in China and India today if after WW2 China and India were neoliberal capitalist countries. The misery would be unfathomable to us 


It is the wrong end of the stick you are hanging onto there, pal, rather desperately. You are completely wrong.  There was famine and misery in both China and India - and everywhere else - while they were pursuing 'scientific socialist' and Marxist policies in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s.  Only when they turned away from 'scientific socialism' did they start turning things around. Socialism is a guaranteed failure, economically and culturally and socially.

Socialism is Orwellian Newspeak for 'we are completely fcvked, how do we get out of this godawful mess '. every evidence from history supports that assessment.

Show us successful socialism by way of disproving my point.




It seems to work in the US ?

Capitalism only survives when socialism bails it out every decade or so. In fact every time that capitalism gets itself into trouble.

Capitalism seems to be at its best just after socialism bails it out and stays strong again till capitalism fails. Every time the going gets tough the US turn to social policy for the wealthy. 

Duckie, you are confusing government intervention with socialism.

That's  how ignorant you are.  Not surprising from a mere duck, of course. Do you poo as you waddle? Don't  answer that.

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Frank
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Re: If Capitalism is so great........
Reply #48 - Sep 16th, 2020 at 9:27pm
 
Jest wrote on Sep 16th, 2020 at 8:21pm:
Frank wrote on Sep 16th, 2020 at 6:44pm:
Jest wrote on Sep 16th, 2020 at 2:10pm:
Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 14th, 2020 at 5:44pm:
Quote:
10. Rising living standards.

Capitalism has contributed to rising living standards and fall in absolute poverty. Since China and other countries of south-east Asia became more ‘capitalist and free market, their economies have grown leading to a rise in living standards and a fall in levels of poverty.


The so called private enterprise "Think Tanks"/"Institutes" (for which you should really substitute the words "Propaganda Cells") spend a mottza putting stats and graphs like this together for dissemination all over the web. And its very much like the stats and graphs you get from the Feminist Movement and Race Activist Movements. They selectively choose the factors which they say make out their case so that, for example, within a few days of the Covid epidemic surfacing they tell us that Covid disproportionately hurts women/black people/Trans people. The other day I even saw an all female science study claim that micro plastics in the Oceans disproportionately hurts women.  Truth is self serving interest groups like the IPA make this sh*t up. 

And most importantly note that the caption states "Capitalism has contributed to rising living standards and fall in absolute poverty..." Of course you got to ask; What does "contributed" mean and more importantly again, which economic system was the other "contributor" in all this.China and India accounts for over  half the worlds population & their socialist & mixed socialist economies are the major reason for bring their peoples out of poverty. Just imagine the level of poverty that we would  have in China and India today if after WW2 China and India were neoliberal capitalist countries. The misery would be unfathomable to us 


It is the wrong end of the stick you are hanging onto there, pal, rather desperately. You are completely wrong.  There was famine and misery in both China and India - and everywhere else - while they were pursuing 'scientific socialist' and Marxist policies in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s.  Only when they turned away from 'scientific socialism' did they start turning things around. Socialism is a guaranteed failure, economically and culturally and socially.

Socialism is Orwellian Newspeak for 'we are completely fcvked, how do we get out of this godawful mess '. every evidence from history supports that assessment.

Show us successful socialism by way of disproving my point.



Your entirely wrong and your cold war propaganda wont make you right. The Chinese have endured famine for their whole history including their pre WW2 capitalist history exacerbated by the fact that their population is huge. Even in small countries like Ireland under British rule (Britain being the most developed capitalist country of the day) saw over a million people die from starvation during the potato blight.

And this is what Wikipedia says about india "Famine had been a recurrent feature of life the Indian sub-continental countries of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh, most notoriously during British rule. Famines in India resulted in more than 60 million deaths over the course of the 18th, 19th, and early 20th centuries. Famines in British India were severe enough to have a substantial impact on the long-term population growth of the country in the 19th and early 20th centuries." . And in America I see there are claims that 7 million people died of starvation during the Great Depression and one of your so called "Think Tanks" say "No, no it wasn't starvation but malnutrition". Really? Im sure they don't make that distinction when they give us their China numbers. 

I have no doubt that mistakes and bad judgments were made along the way in Britain, China (eg the Great Leap forward, though that was not the only reason but the propaganda machine pretends it was), India and the rest of the Capitalist/Socialist world. Is it the fault of the respective systems. Well you'll get a different answer depending on which ideology they're pushing. The other thing you have to remember is that China didnt start developing until after WW2 when socialism developed the country and underdeveloped countries are a lot more vulnerable to famine esp when they have huge populations like China and India).   

China is where China is (overtaking America in prosperity) because of socialism. Thats because a planned economy works much better than a haphazard, shot in the dark market economy riddled by continuous boom and bust cycles. Of course once the Country started getting rich those in the party decided that an easing of socialist principles (Communism with Chinese characteristics) was a good thing because it made Party officials Rich. But most of china's infrastructure and facilities are still Govt owned and run. India, like Australia, went through a process of private enterprise plundering the richest and best Public Assets in the 90s but there's no denying (though you will deny it) that it was the public sector that put the Australian and Indian economies on their feet in the first place (Esp India)      

Waffle.
Show us a successful socialism by way of disproving my point.
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Brian Ross
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Re: If Capitalism is so great........
Reply #49 - Sep 16th, 2020 at 9:30pm
 
Frank wrote on Sep 16th, 2020 at 9:27pm:
Waffle.
Show us a successful socialism by way of disproving my point.


Australia   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Frank
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Re: If Capitalism is so great........
Reply #50 - Sep 16th, 2020 at 9:51pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Sep 16th, 2020 at 9:30pm:
Frank wrote on Sep 16th, 2020 at 9:27pm:
Waffle.
Show us a successful socialism by way of disproving my point.


Australia   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes



So what is a nonsocialist country then?  If Australia is a socialist country then all western countries are socialist. We are all China and north korea and cuba. No diff.  But you are an idiot, Dewek, you ALWAYS lurch for the stupid equivocation, the spineless idiocy.


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Re: If Capitalism is so great........
Reply #51 - Sep 16th, 2020 at 10:04pm
 
Frank wrote on Sep 16th, 2020 at 9:27pm:
Jest wrote on Sep 16th, 2020 at 8:21pm:
Frank wrote on Sep 16th, 2020 at 6:44pm:
[quote author=Jest link=1599959981/42#42 date=1600229423][quote author=sprintcyclist link=1599959981/39#39 date=1600069485]

[quote]

The so called private enterprise "Think Tanks"/"Institutes" (for which you should really substitute the words "Propaganda Cells") spend a mottza putting stats and graphs like this together for dissemination all over the web. And its very much like the stats and graphs you get from the Feminist Movement and Race Activist Movements. They selectively choose the factors which they say make out their case so that, for example, within a few days of the Covid epidemic surfacing they tell us that Covid disproportionately hurts women/black people/Trans people. The other day I even saw an all female science study claim that micro plastics in the Oceans disproportionately hurts women.  Truth is self serving interest groups like the IPA make this sh*t up. 

And most importantly note that the caption states "Capitalism has contributed to rising living standards and fall in absolute poverty..." Of course you got to ask; What does "contributed" mean and more importantly again, which economic system was the other "contributor" in all this.China and India accounts for over  half the worlds population & their socialist & mixed socialist economies are the major reason for bring their peoples out of poverty. Just imagine the level of poverty that we would  have in China and India today if after WW2 China and India were neoliberal capitalist countries. The misery would be unfathomable to us 


It is the wrong end of the stick you are hanging onto there, pal, rather desperately. You are completely wrong.  There was famine and misery in both China and India - and everywhere else - while they were pursuing 'scientific socialist' and Marxist policies in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s.  Only when they turned away from 'scientific socialism' did they start turning things around. Socialism is a guaranteed failure, economically and culturally and socially.

Socialism is Orwellian Newspeak for 'we are completely fcvked, how do we get out of this godawful mess '. every evidence from history supports that assessment.

Show us successful socialism by way of disproving my point.



Your entirely wrong and your cold war propaganda wont make you right. The Chinese have endured famine for their whole history including their pre WW2 capitalist history exacerbated by the fact that their population is huge. Even in small countries like Ireland under British rule (Britain being the most developed capitalist country of the day) saw over a million people die from starvation during the potato blight.

And this is what Wikipedia says about india "Famine had been a recurrent feature of life the Indian sub-continental countries of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh, most notoriously during British rule. Famines in India resulted in more than 60 million deaths over the course of the 18th, 19th, and early 20th centuries. Famines in British India were severe enough to have a substantial impact on the long-term population growth of the country in the 19th and early 20th centuries." . And in America I see there are claims that 7 million people died of starvation during the Great Depression and one of your so called "Think Tanks" say "No, no it wasn't starvation but malnutrition". Really? Im sure they don't make that distinction when they give us their China numbers. 

I have no doubt that mistakes and bad judgments were made along the way in Britain, China (eg the Great Leap forward, though that was not the only reason but the propaganda machine pretends it was), India and the rest of the Capitalist/Socialist world. Is it the fault of the respective systems. Well you'll get a different answer depending on which ideology they're pushing. The other thing you have to remember is that China didnt start developing until after WW2 when socialism developed the country and underdeveloped countries are a lot more vulnerable to famine esp when they have huge populations like China and India).   

China is where China is (overtaking America in prosperity) because of socialism. Thats because a planned economy works much better than a haphazard, shot in the dark market economy riddled by continuous boom and bust cycles. Of course once the Country started getting rich those in the party decided that an easing of socialist principles (Communism with Chinese characteristics) was a good thing because it made Party officials Rich. But most of china's infrastructure and facilities are still Govt owned and run. India, like Australia, went through a process of private enterprise plundering the richest and best Public Assets in the 90s but there's no denying (though you will deny it) that it was the public sector that put the Australian and Indian economies on their feet in the first place (Esp India)      


You didnt answer my first post. Just made a few old cold war assertions. But I answered your reply anyway so now you got 2 of my posts (which clearly address your claims) to respond to. Thats OK Ill wait!
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Re: If Capitalism is so great........
Reply #52 - Sep 16th, 2020 at 10:09pm
 
Frank wrote on Sep 16th, 2020 at 9:23pm:
Dnarever wrote on Sep 16th, 2020 at 7:20pm:
Frank wrote on Sep 16th, 2020 at 6:44pm:
Jest wrote on Sep 16th, 2020 at 2:10pm:
Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 14th, 2020 at 5:44pm:
Quote:
10. Rising living standards.

Capitalism has contributed to rising living standards and fall in absolute poverty. Since China and other countries of south-east Asia became more ‘capitalist and free market, their economies have grown leading to a rise in living standards and a fall in levels of poverty.


The so called private enterprise "Think Tanks"/"Institutes" (for which you should really substitute the words "Propaganda Cells") spend a mottza putting stats and graphs like this together for dissemination all over the web. And its very much like the stats and graphs you get from the Feminist Movement and Race Activist Movements. They selectively choose the factors which they say make out their case so that, for example, within a few days of the Covid epidemic surfacing they tell us that Covid disproportionately hurts women/black people/Trans people. The other day I even saw an all female science study claim that micro plastics in the Oceans disproportionately hurts women.  Truth is self serving interest groups like the IPA make this sh*t up. 

And most importantly note that the caption states "Capitalism has contributed to rising living standards and fall in absolute poverty..." Of course you got to ask; What does "contributed" mean and more importantly again, which economic system was the other "contributor" in all this.China and India accounts for over  half the worlds population & their socialist & mixed socialist economies are the major reason for bring their peoples out of poverty. Just imagine the level of poverty that we would  have in China and India today if after WW2 China and India were neoliberal capitalist countries. The misery would be unfathomable to us 


It is the wrong end of the stick you are hanging onto there, pal, rather desperately. You are completely wrong.  There was famine and misery in both China and India - and everywhere else - while they were pursuing 'scientific socialist' and Marxist policies in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s.  Only when they turned away from 'scientific socialism' did they start turning things around. Socialism is a guaranteed failure, economically and culturally and socially.

Socialism is Orwellian Newspeak for 'we are completely fcvked, how do we get out of this godawful mess '. every evidence from history supports that assessment.

Show us successful socialism by way of disproving my point.




It seems to work in the US ?

Capitalism only survives when socialism bails it out every decade or so. In fact every time that capitalism gets itself into trouble.

Capitalism seems to be at its best just after socialism bails it out and stays strong again till capitalism fails. Every time the going gets tough the US turn to social policy for the wealthy. 

Duckie, you are confusing government intervention with socialism.

That's  how ignorant you are.  Not surprising from a mere duck, of course. Do you poo as you waddle? Don't  answer that.


You know it is possible to have these discussions without being abusive. Why dont you give it a try. It will be a lot more pleasant and we might find that we actually have a useful and informative discussion with some common ground.
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Re: If Capitalism is so great........
Reply #53 - Sep 16th, 2020 at 10:35pm
 
Jest wrote on Sep 16th, 2020 at 10:09pm:
..............  You know it is possible to have these discussions without being abusive. Why dont you give it a try. It will be a lot more pleasant and we might find that we actually have a useful and informative discussion with some common ground.   


That would be a pleasant change
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Re: If Capitalism is so great........
Reply #54 - Sep 16th, 2020 at 11:04pm
 
Frank wrote on Sep 16th, 2020 at 9:51pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Sep 16th, 2020 at 9:30pm:
Frank wrote on Sep 16th, 2020 at 9:27pm:
Waffle.
Show us a successful socialism by way of disproving my point.


Australia   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

So what is a nonsocialist country then?  If Australia is a socialist country then all western countries are socialist. We are all China and north korea and cuba. No diff.  But you are an idiot, Dewek, you ALWAYS lurch for the stupid equivocation, the spineless idiocy.


Australia used to, until the election of the Hawke/Keating Governments, the second or third most socialist country in the world, Soren.  Under Hawke/Keating we saw a sudden lurch towards the right unfortunately.  You appear not to understand that Medicare, public hospitals, schools, roads, bridges, etc. are all aspects of that socialism.   Your antipathy towards me blinds you to the reality of the country you live in.  Your own hated of anything that is marked "socialism" blinds you to a history that most Australians are glad of, Soren.  Of course, that might be because you flew here, rather than grew here, like myself...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: If Capitalism is so great........
Reply #55 - Sep 16th, 2020 at 11:26pm
 
IMO.

Capitalism can onlywork if you are prepared to let thse that fail, actually fail an go bankrupt.

Now we have banks and institutions too big to fail. So now we are no longer capitalist, we have turned into something ese.

I don't know the label for it but it's not capitalism. It's not socialism. It's not even corporatism. It is government paying for failed businesses not to fail. That will lead to an unhealthy structure that will fail eventually. That will be the biggest bang ever. We need them to fail at the time they are due to fail. The investors must lose their money. Now they are taking no risk as the government will not let them fail. Corporate governance will not get corrected. Bad practices will continue. No consequences will lead to ita ll going to shi*t at some point. Then other forms of government will take over, like socialism and we will go backwards.

if the government is going to bail them out, they should be given a share of the banks and companies so they can get a return later. Now that would be correct capitalist approach. I give you many, you give me shares... I will sell when it is good for me to do so. Just handing out free cash is not the way to go.
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Re: If Capitalism is so great........
Reply #56 - Sep 16th, 2020 at 11:33pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Sep 16th, 2020 at 11:04pm:
Frank wrote on Sep 16th, 2020 at 9:51pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Sep 16th, 2020 at 9:30pm:
Frank wrote on Sep 16th, 2020 at 9:27pm:
Waffle.
Show us a successful socialism by way of disproving my point.


Australia   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

So what is a nonsocialist country then?  If Australia is a socialist country then all western countries are socialist. We are all China and north korea and cuba. No diff.  But you are an idiot, Dewek, you ALWAYS lurch for the stupid equivocation, the spineless idiocy.


Australia used to, until the election of the Hawke/Keating Governments, the second or third most socialist country in the world, Soren.  Under Hawke/Keating we saw a sudden lurch towards the right unfortunately.  You appear not to understand that Medicare, public hospitals, schools, roads, bridges, etc. are all aspects of that socialism.   Your antipathy towards me blinds you to the reality of the country you live in.  Your own hated of anything that is marked "socialism" blinds you to a history that most Australians are glad of, Soren.  Of course, that might be because you flew here, rather than grew here, like myself...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes




we not only pay for all of those with our taxes  but also if and when we use them. we pay even more....

not sure what socialism has to do with that..


as for depending on the govt.. which is what I think make up socialism.....I will wait and see what happens in Nth Korea...as from what little I have heard   they do not move without the govt say so..
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Re: If Capitalism is so great........
Reply #57 - Sep 16th, 2020 at 11:41pm
 
Roll Eyes  Oh, god - the old 'North Korea is a socialist state' furphy - wrong - it is a Fascist dictatorship.  Roll Eyes
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Re: If Capitalism is so great........
Reply #58 - Sep 17th, 2020 at 3:35am
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 16th, 2020 at 10:35pm:
Jest wrote on Sep 16th, 2020 at 10:09pm:
..............  You know it is possible to have these discussions without being abusive. Why dont you give it a try. It will be a lot more pleasant and we might find that we actually have a useful and informative discussion with some common ground.   


That would be a pleasant change
Yes, we can only hope sprint.
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Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.
 
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Re: If Capitalism is so great........
Reply #59 - Sep 17th, 2020 at 6:09am
 
Frank wrote on Sep 16th, 2020 at 9:23pm:
Dnarever wrote on Sep 16th, 2020 at 7:20pm:
Frank wrote on Sep 16th, 2020 at 6:44pm:
Jest wrote on Sep 16th, 2020 at 2:10pm:
Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 14th, 2020 at 5:44pm:
Quote:
10. Rising living standards.

Capitalism has contributed to rising living standards and fall in absolute poverty. Since China and other countries of south-east Asia became more ‘capitalist and free market, their economies have grown leading to a rise in living standards and a fall in levels of poverty.


The so called private enterprise "Think Tanks"/"Institutes" (for which you should really substitute the words "Propaganda Cells") spend a mottza putting stats and graphs like this together for dissemination all over the web. And its very much like the stats and graphs you get from the Feminist Movement and Race Activist Movements. They selectively choose the factors which they say make out their case so that, for example, within a few days of the Covid epidemic surfacing they tell us that Covid disproportionately hurts women/black people/Trans people. The other day I even saw an all female science study claim that micro plastics in the Oceans disproportionately hurts women.  Truth is self serving interest groups like the IPA make this sh*t up. 

And most importantly note that the caption states "Capitalism has contributed to rising living standards and fall in absolute poverty..." Of course you got to ask; What does "contributed" mean and more importantly again, which economic system was the other "contributor" in all this.China and India accounts for over  half the worlds population & their socialist & mixed socialist economies are the major reason for bring their peoples out of poverty. Just imagine the level of poverty that we would  have in China and India today if after WW2 China and India were neoliberal capitalist countries. The misery would be unfathomable to us 


It is the wrong end of the stick you are hanging onto there, pal, rather desperately. You are completely wrong.  There was famine and misery in both China and India - and everywhere else - while they were pursuing 'scientific socialist' and Marxist policies in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s.  Only when they turned away from 'scientific socialism' did they start turning things around. Socialism is a guaranteed failure, economically and culturally and socially.

Socialism is Orwellian Newspeak for 'we are completely fcvked, how do we get out of this godawful mess '. every evidence from history supports that assessment.

Show us successful socialism by way of disproving my point.




It seems to work in the US ?

Capitalism only survives when socialism bails it out every decade or so. In fact every time that capitalism gets itself into trouble.

Capitalism seems to be at its best just after socialism bails it out and stays strong again till capitalism fails. Every time the going gets tough the US turn to social policy for the wealthy. 

Duckie, you are confusing government intervention with socialism.

That's  how ignorant you are.  Not surprising from a mere duck, of course. Do you poo as you waddle? Don't  answer that.



Grin What is Govt. intervention?

It's using taxpayer dollars to bail out companies  corporations

No matter how you try & paint it as being different ......

that's socialism.
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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
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