Australian Politics Forum - If Capitalism is so great........

Ajax

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Re: If Capitalism is so great........
Reply #15 - Sep 13^th, 2020 at 7:33pm

freediver wrote on Sep 13^th, 2020 at 6:01pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Sep 13^th, 2020 at 11:19am:

.......why does it need socialism to bail it out every 10 years

It's Keynesianism, not socialism.

From 1945 to 1980's we had Keynesian capitalism here in Australia and most of the west.

Were we a communist nation during all that time.

Wake up and smell the CO2 FD, you are one of the most brain washed individuals I have ever come across.

Keynesian capitalism puts the state first and above Corporatism, that's why we had public assets back then and now under the neo-liberalism given to us by the Hawke government all our pubic assets are in the hands of a few greedy men.

You really do make a good foot soldier champ.... Wink

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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Jest

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Re: If Capitalism is so great........
Reply #16 - Sep 13^th, 2020 at 7:53pm

Bias_2012 wrote on Sep 13^th, 2020 at 5:24pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Sep 13^th, 2020 at 11:19am:

.......why does it need socialism to bail it out every 10 years

It doesn't need socialism to bail it out. I gets bailouts because politicians want minimal unemployment, so it's to save jobs and keep money circulating. Bailouts can achieve this in a shorter time than waiting for the near collapsed businesses to build up a again

So please are you saying that if we let capitalism run its course, without giving the bankrupt (ie dead) financial institutions any bail out money the economy would come back to life.

If you are saying that, how long do you think that would take to get back to pre crisis levels. Think about the GFC when they were talking about institutions "Too Big To fail" (meaning for the social good - ie Socialism- we can't let them fail). How long? Take a guess and please be realistic & dont start at anything less than decades. With all those major institutions collapsing in every country one after the other, each dependent on each other, the economy would be starting from almost scratch. Thats why they had to inject the people's money. It wasn't a choice. For them it was a necessity or else every nation on earth would have collapsed under the pressure of people carrying pitchforks demanding that those whose greed cause the crisis be brought to justice. Do you really think our nation states would have survived more than a week or two, let alone decades if the Govts of the world didn't bring those banks and financial institutions back to life quick smart?

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Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: If Capitalism is so great........
Reply #17 - Sep 13^th, 2020 at 8:26pm

Bias_2012 wrote on Sep 13^th, 2020 at 5:24pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Sep 13^th, 2020 at 11:19am:

.......why does it need socialism to bail it out every 10 years

It doesn't need socialism to bail it out. I gets bailouts because politicians want minimal unemployment, so it's to save jobs and keep money circulating. Bailouts can achieve this in a shorter time than waiting for the near collapsed businesses to build up a again

Ah - so it does need bailouts.. thanks....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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freediver

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Re: If Capitalism is so great........
Reply #18 - Sep 13^th, 2020 at 9:23pm

Setanta wrote on Sep 13^th, 2020 at 6:43pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 13^th, 2020 at 6:01pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Sep 13^th, 2020 at 11:19am:

.......why does it need socialism to bail it out every 10 years

It's Keynesianism, not socialism.

I wouldn't have thought so. Keynes would be giving the money to those that would grease the wheels and make the blood of the economy flow. The whole reason we have a market economy is the spending power of the many, not the few, that's what makes it tick over.

The actions being taken by the reserve bank - effectively printing money now, and jacking up interest rates prior to the GFC - are textbook Keynes.

Ajax wrote on Sep 13^th, 2020 at 7:33pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 13^th, 2020 at 6:01pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Sep 13^th, 2020 at 11:19am:

.......why does it need socialism to bail it out every 10 years

It's Keynesianism, not socialism.

From 1945 to 1980's we had Keynesian capitalism here in Australia and most of the west.

Were we a communist nation during all that time.

Wake up and smell the CO2 FD, you are one of the most brain washed individuals I have ever come across.

Keynesian capitalism puts the state first and above Corporatism, that's why we had public assets back then and now under the neo-liberalism given to us by the Hawke government all our pubic assets are in the hands of a few greedy men.

You really do make a good foot soldier champ.... Wink

Are you trying to disagree with me on something?

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I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT!

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Bobby.

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Re: If Capitalism is so great........
Reply #19 - Sep 13^th, 2020 at 9:27pm

Ajax wrote on Sep 13^th, 2020 at 7:33pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 13^th, 2020 at 6:01pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Sep 13^th, 2020 at 11:19am:

.......why does it need socialism to bail it out every 10 years

It's Keynesianism, not socialism.

From 1945 to 1980's we had Keynesian capitalism here in Australia and most of the west.

Were we a communist nation during all that time.

Wake up and smell the CO2 FD, you are one of the most brain washed individuals I have ever come across.

Keynesian capitalism puts the state first and above Corporatism, that's why we had public assets back then and now under the neo-liberalism given to us by the Hawke government all our pubic assets are in the hands of a few greedy men.

You really do make a good foot soldier champ.... Wink

We are still a one party communist state.

Marx defined the proletariat as the social class having no significant ownership of the means of production (factories, machines, land, mines, buildings, vehicles) and whose only means of subsistence is to sell their labor power for a wage or salary.

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Dnarever

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Re: If Capitalism is so great........
Reply #20 - Sep 13^th, 2020 at 9:30pm

Bias_2012 wrote on Sep 13^th, 2020 at 5:24pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Sep 13^th, 2020 at 11:19am:

.......why does it need socialism to bail it out every 10 years

It doesn't need socialism to bail it out. I gets bailouts because politicians want minimal unemployment, so it's to save jobs and keep money circulating. Bailouts can achieve this in a shorter time than waiting for the near collapsed businesses to build up a again

Capitalism says let it fail if it isn't good enough.

Socialism happens when the state pays the cost for the good.

Your logic is justification not mitigation.

And by the way they are letting small business and people go down the drain they will have none of that socialist crap here.

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Bias_2012

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Re: If Capitalism is so great........
Reply #21 - Sep 13^th, 2020 at 10:06pm

Jest wrote on Sep 13^th, 2020 at 7:53pm:

Bias_2012 wrote on Sep 13^th, 2020 at 5:24pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Sep 13^th, 2020 at 11:19am:

.......why does it need socialism to bail it out every 10 years

It doesn't need socialism to bail it out. I gets bailouts because politicians want minimal unemployment, so it's to save jobs and keep money circulating. Bailouts can achieve this in a shorter time than waiting for the near collapsed businesses to build up a again

So please are you saying that if we let capitalism run its course, without giving the bankrupt (ie dead) financial institutions any bail out money the economy would come back to life.

If you are saying that, how long do you think that would take to get back to pre crisis levels. Think about the GFC when they were talking about institutions "Too Big To fail" (meaning for the social good - ie Socialism- we can't let them fail). How long? Take a guess and please be realistic & dont start at anything less than decades. With all those major institutions collapsing in every country one after the other, each dependent on each other, the economy would be starting from almost scratch. Thats why they had to inject the people's money. It wasn't a choice. For them it was a necessity or else every nation on earth would have collapsed under the pressure of people carrying pitchforks demanding that those whose greed cause the crisis be brought to justice. Do you really think our nation states would have survived more than a week or two, let alone decades if the Govts of the world didn't bring those banks and financial institutions back to life quick smart?

Crikey I've touched a nerve

I wasn't expressing an opinion, I was stating some facts

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Our Lives Are Governed By The Feast & Famine Variable

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Bias_2012

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Re: If Capitalism is so great........
Reply #22 - Sep 13^th, 2020 at 10:17pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Sep 13^th, 2020 at 8:26pm:

Bias_2012 wrote on Sep 13^th, 2020 at 5:24pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Sep 13^th, 2020 at 11:19am:

.......why does it need socialism to bail it out every 10 years

It doesn't need socialism to bail it out. I gets bailouts because politicians want minimal unemployment, so it's to save jobs and keep money circulating. Bailouts can achieve this in a shorter time than waiting for the near collapsed businesses to build up a again

Ah - so it does need bailouts.. thanks....

No, only the politicians think it needs bailouts. Capitalism has it's own way of repairing itself, but it's just not quick enough for the socialist politicians, so they offer public money to help keep the economy going, even if the companies don't want the money

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« Last Edit: Sep 14^th, 2020 at 9:30am by Bias_2012 »

Our Lives Are Governed By The Feast & Famine Variable

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Jest

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Re: If Capitalism is so great........
Reply #23 - Sep 13^th, 2020 at 11:12pm

Bias_2012 wrote on Sep 13^th, 2020 at 10:06pm:

Jest wrote on Sep 13^th, 2020 at 7:53pm:

Bias_2012 wrote on Sep 13^th, 2020 at 5:24pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Sep 13^th, 2020 at 11:19am:

.......why does it need socialism to bail it out every 10 years

It doesn't need socialism to bail it out. I gets bailouts because politicians want minimal unemployment, so it's to save jobs and keep money circulating. Bailouts can achieve this in a shorter time than waiting for the near collapsed businesses to build up a again

So please are you saying that if we let capitalism run its course, without giving the bankrupt (ie dead) financial institutions any bail out money the economy would come back to life.

If you are saying that, how long do you think that would take to get back to pre crisis levels. Think about the GFC when they were talking about institutions "Too Big To fail" (meaning for the social good - ie Socialism- we can't let them fail). How long? Take a guess and please be realistic & dont start at anything less than decades. With all those major institutions collapsing in every country one after the other, each dependent on each other, the economy would be starting from almost scratch. Thats why they had to inject the people's money. It wasn't a choice. For them it was a necessity or else every nation on earth would have collapsed under the pressure of people carrying pitchforks demanding that those whose greed cause the crisis be brought to justice. Do you really think our nation states would have survived more than a week or two, let alone decades if the Govts of the world didn't bring those banks and financial institutions back to life quick smart?

Crikey I've touched a nerve

I wasn't expressing an opinion, I was stating some facts

How did you touch a nerve? I asked you a question for clarification. So are you going to answer?

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Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.

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Jest

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Re: If Capitalism is so great........
Reply #24 - Sep 13^th, 2020 at 11:16pm

Bias_2012 wrote on Sep 13^th, 2020 at 10:17pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Sep 13^th, 2020 at 8:26pm:

Bias_2012 wrote on Sep 13^th, 2020 at 5:24pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Sep 13^th, 2020 at 11:19am:

.......why does it need socialism to bail it out every 10 years

It doesn't need socialism to bail it out. I gets bailouts because politicians want minimal unemployment, so it's to save jobs and keep money circulating. Bailouts can achieve this in a shorter time than waiting for the near collapsed businesses to build up a again

Ah - so it does need bailouts.. thanks....

No, only the politicians think it needs bailouts. Capitalism have it's own way of repairing itself, but it's just not quick enough for the socialist politicians, so they offer public money to help keep the economy going, even if the companies don't want the money

This reply is not stating a fact or an opinion. Its fantasy!

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Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.

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Bias_2012

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Re: If Capitalism is so great........
Reply #25 - Sep 13^th, 2020 at 11:30pm

Jest wrote on Sep 13^th, 2020 at 11:12pm:

Bias_2012 wrote on Sep 13^th, 2020 at 10:06pm:

Jest wrote on Sep 13^th, 2020 at 7:53pm:

Bias_2012 wrote on Sep 13^th, 2020 at 5:24pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Sep 13^th, 2020 at 11:19am:

.......why does it need socialism to bail it out every 10 years

It doesn't need socialism to bail it out. I gets bailouts because politicians want minimal unemployment, so it's to save jobs and keep money circulating. Bailouts can achieve this in a shorter time than waiting for the near collapsed businesses to build up a again

So please are you saying that if we let capitalism run its course, without giving the bankrupt (ie dead) financial institutions any bail out money the economy would come back to life.

If you are saying that, how long do you think that would take to get back to pre crisis levels. Think about the GFC when they were talking about institutions "Too Big To fail" (meaning for the social good - ie Socialism- we can't let them fail). How long? Take a guess and please be realistic & dont start at anything less than decades. With all those major institutions collapsing in every country one after the other, each dependent on each other, the economy would be starting from almost scratch. Thats why they had to inject the people's money. It wasn't a choice. For them it was a necessity or else every nation on earth would have collapsed under the pressure of people carrying pitchforks demanding that those whose greed cause the crisis be brought to justice. Do you really think our nation states would have survived more than a week or two, let alone decades if the Govts of the world didn't bring those banks and financial institutions back to life quick smart?

Crikey I've touched a nerve

I wasn't expressing an opinion, I was stating some facts

How did you touch a nerve? I asked you a question for clarification. So are you going to answer?

I've already said - it takes longer than if bailouts were offered and used

I'm not arguing that capitalism is great or not. I'm saying that capitalism doesn't need bailouts to survive. Some companies fail, some succeed, but capitalism just keeps going by it's own momentum, if it's allowed to

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Our Lives Are Governed By The Feast & Famine Variable

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: If Capitalism is so great........
Reply #26 - Sep 14^th, 2020 at 12:19am

No problem - if businesses don't need bailouts, next time there will be none and we'll let nature take its course.

Even the stimulus payments over corona were to keep the economy = businesses and exchange of money - flowing... these could be classified as bailouts.

Setanta got it right when he said that a viable economy relies on the majority spending and having the means to spend.... never more clearly stated by the 'conservatives' than with ScomoCash 2020.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39522 Gender:	Re: If Capitalism is so great........ Reply #27 - Sep 14^th, 2020 at 2:54am Noone 'escapes' the USA and 'flees' to cuba, china or russia
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Jest Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1399 NSW South Coast Gender:	Re: If Capitalism is so great........ Reply #28 - Sep 14^th, 2020 at 3:04am Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 14^th, 2020 at 2:54am: Noone 'escapes' the USA and 'flees' to cuba, china or russia You mean like Edward Snowden
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Gnads

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Re: If Capitalism is so great........
Reply #29 - Sep 14^th, 2020 at 6:53am

Frank wrote on Sep 13^th, 2020 at 12:18pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Sep 13^th, 2020 at 11:19am:

.......why does it need socialism to bail it out every 10 years

Where does this supposed 'socialism' get the bailout money from?

Taxes....... but not so much corporate tax Wink

ey?

Or they borrow it on the PAYG tax payer tab.

And the Reserve Bank just print it

how much was printed used to be based on our gold reserves

If you or I printed it without collateral support....

we go to jail. Wink

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« Last Edit: Sep 14^th, 2020 at 7:09am by Gnads »

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