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Setanta

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\/ Peace man!

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Northern NSW
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Re: Prayer
Reply #15 - Jan 3^rd, 2021 at 8:05pm

Ayn Marx wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2021 at 8:49am:

Robot wrote on Sep 17^th, 2020 at 10:21pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Sep 7^th, 2020 at 11:56am:

So that makes prayer meaningless?

God answers prayers all the time, you just can't tell because it looks exactly like he's doing nothing. He's very subtle.

So subtle nobody can explain how an omnipotent being blessed with omniscience could knowingly allow a fallen angel to become Satan. Theology is a sewer of irrational contradictions no amount of biblical apologetics can sidestep.
Ah yes, many are the mysteries. Not to worry, you can console yourself with Colossians Ch 1 : V 26.

I've always wondered how a loving father would leave two innocents in a room with a bar heater thinking that telling them that had no knowledge of right or wrong, good and evil, and telling them not to touch it. Then once they inevitably touch it as soon as he walks out of the room, they are damned forever. How can someone that does not know what good and evil are be condemned when they make a a choice? The whole relationship is abusive.

If you are a bible believer, it wasn't disobedience that was the downfall, it was the curiosity that god himself designed.

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Setanta Gold Member Offline \/ Peace man! Posts: 15926 Northern NSW Gender:	Re: Prayer Reply #16 - Jan 3^rd, 2021 at 8:15pm — Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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The_Barnacle

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Australian Politics

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Melbourne
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Re: Prayer
Reply #17 - Jan 4^th, 2021 at 7:54am

Setanta wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2021 at 8:05pm:

Ayn Marx wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2021 at 8:49am:

Robot wrote on Sep 17^th, 2020 at 10:21pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Sep 7^th, 2020 at 11:56am:

So that makes prayer meaningless?

God answers prayers all the time, you just can't tell because it looks exactly like he's doing nothing. He's very subtle.

So subtle nobody can explain how an omnipotent being blessed with omniscience could knowingly allow a fallen angel to become Satan. Theology is a sewer of irrational contradictions no amount of biblical apologetics can sidestep.
Ah yes, many are the mysteries. Not to worry, you can console yourself with Colossians Ch 1 : V 26.

I've always wondered how a loving father would leave two innocents in a room with a bar heater thinking that telling them that had no knowledge of right or wrong, good and evil, and telling them not to touch it. Then once they inevitably touch it as soon as he walks out of the room, they are damned forever. How can someone that does not know what good and evil are be condemned when they make a a choice? The whole relationship is abusive.

If you are a bible believer, it wasn't disobedience that was the downfall, it was the curiosity that god himself designed.

Under modern law that would be considered "Entrapment"

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The Right Wing only believe in free speech when they agree with what is being said.

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Ayn Marx Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2937 South of Australia Gender:	Re: Prayer Reply #18 - Jan 4^th, 2021 at 8:42am The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 4^th, 2021 at 7:54am: Under modern law that would be considered "Entrapment" It’s interesting to speculate how and why an omnipotent being could manage to entrap and torture himself. Has me wondering sometimes of God is talking about himself at Proverbs Ch 9: V 3.
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Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 40625 Gender:	Re: Prayer Reply #19 - Nov 22^nd, 2022 at 7:24pm From the 4 minute mark
Back to top	Estragon: I can’t go on like this. Vladimir: That’s what you think. IP Logged

Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 46559 Gender:	Re: Prayer Reply #20 - Dec 2^nd, 2022 at 5:56pm Some white racist supremacists in there among both WaterMelonesian mobs. Great 'Sporting' Anthem by the Fijians. A lot better than the 'Political' Anthem. I wonder what the Kumuls would come up with? Maybe a 'Spearing' ceremony?
Back to top	AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY. IP Logged

AusGeoff

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Sage of Gippsland

Posts: 5998
Victoria
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Re: Prayer
Reply #21 - Dec 3^rd, 2022 at 12:51am

National Library of Medicine, PubMed:

Intercessory prayer itself had no effect on complication-free recovery from
coronary artery bypass graft, but certainty of receiving intercessory prayer
was associated with a higher incidence of complications.

In two CABG patient groups uncertain about receiving intercessory prayer,
complications occurred in 52% of patients who received intercessory prayer
versus 51% of those who did not. Complications occurred in 59% of patients
certain of receiving intercessory prayer compared with the 52% of those
uncertain of receiving intercessory prayer. All group sizes ~600 patients.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16569567/

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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Prayer Reply #22 - Dec 3^rd, 2022 at 1:06am Oh how little you lot know about prayer. Never mind ....
Back to top	If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free. HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415) IP Logged

Ayn Marx Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2937 South of Australia Gender:	Re: Prayer Reply #23 - Dec 6^th, 2022 at 9:43pm Lisa Jones wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2022 at 1:06am: Oh how little you lot know about prayer. Never mind .... No religious experience can by any stretch of the imagination be described as knowledg e.
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AusGeoff

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Sage of Gippsland

Posts: 5998
Victoria
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Re: Prayer
Reply #24 - Dec 7^th, 2022 at 12:00am

A prayer (from Latin precari, "to ask earnestly, to beg") is a form of spell or
incantation, usually cast (or recited) to a specific god or demon. Believers
assert that their god hears their prayers and might even, if in a good mood,
grant the requests contained within said prayers—a kind of celestial bonus
package. On occasion, the faithful direct prayers to some third party who they
believe to have the power to intercede on behalf of petitioners, such as a saint
or "the Lord's anointed" (royalty, religious leaders, etc.).

Though many "studies" have attempted to prove that prayer gets results,
there is no evidence of divine intercession actually occurring, other than
occasional applications of the Texas sharpshooter logical fallacy.

Every time a pope falls ill and ends up on his deathbed, we may assume that
a sizable fraction of the 1.3 billion Catholics in the world all pray for his recovery.
Despite this enormous effort of prayer, 100% of popes eventually die.

Grin

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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Prayer Reply #25 - Dec 7^th, 2022 at 9:28pm Hmmm so nobody here knows why people pray to God. Or how. Interesting.
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AusGeoff

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Sage of Gippsland

Posts: 5998
Victoria
Gender: male

Re: Prayer
Reply #26 - Dec 8^th, 2022 at 12:32am

Lisa Jones wrote on Dec 7^th, 2022 at 9:28pm:

Hmmm so nobody here knows why people pray to God. Or how. Interesting.

Well, firstly Lisa, God or gods simply don't exist, and never have.

"The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of
human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive
legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter
how subtle can (for me) change this." —Albert Einstein.

As far as understanding prayer goes, this site explains it in depth...

https://skepdic.com/prayer.html

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issuevoter Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9200 The Great State of Mind Gender:	Re: Prayer Reply #27 - Dec 8^th, 2022 at 4:40pm Not exactly clear on why prayer is in the Atheism section. The only times I have ever prayed was when I was really, really . . . really scared.
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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 46559 Gender:	Re: Prayer Reply #28 - Dec 8^th, 2022 at 5:12pm Millions pray for Aliens these days - Aliens to kill and both save them.
Back to top	AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY. IP Logged

AusGeoff Gold Member Offline Sage of Gippsland Posts: 5998 Victoria Gender:	Re: Prayer Reply #29 - Dec 9^th, 2022 at 3:29am issuevoter wrote on Dec 8^th, 2022 at 4:40pm: Not exactly clear on why prayer is in the Atheism section... I guess because the few tenets of atheism are the antithesis of the tenets of religion—prayer being one of those.
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