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Unions want to kill non-Union industries (Read 10511 times)
John Smith
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Re: Unions want to kill non-Union industries
Reply #300 - Oct 21st, 2020 at 7:35pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 21st, 2020 at 3:35pm:
how does this differ from making up crap and then using your own ignorance as justification for telling lies?



FD's projecting again
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Re: Unions want to kill non-Union industries
Reply #301 - Oct 24th, 2020 at 7:43am
 
You never seem to have anything to actually say John.
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Re: Unions want to kill non-Union industries
Reply #302 - Nov 7th, 2020 at 8:46am
 
Ye Grappler wrote on Oct 21st, 2020 at 10:44am:
Of COURSE the farmers are obeying the law - they are paying the parasites who provide the labour the proper agreed amount per body, and it is the parasites that need a good going over with - lessee now - was watching "Loving Pablo" last night and Escobar's men killed two guys with chainsaws.... it could work!

Where are governments in all this - doing the right thing?  Too busy swinging deals over Badgerys Creek? Wherever there are billions of taxpayer dollars heading their way towards some agreed government initiative - the bastards gather like blow flies on fresh cow sh1t.


No-one is forcing backpackers to use a job agency. They could always travel the countryside, enter every farm gate, drive up to the farmhouse and enquire.
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John Smith
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Re: Unions want to kill non-Union industries
Reply #303 - Nov 7th, 2020 at 6:37pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 24th, 2020 at 7:43am:
You never seem to have anything to actually say John.


I've been taking lessons from you FD
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freediver
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Re: Unions want to kill non-Union industries
Reply #304 - Nov 12th, 2020 at 6:29pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 20th, 2020 at 8:37am:
freediver wrote on Oct 19th, 2020 at 5:10pm:
Quote:
Because it is such an obvious tactic to deflect away from the actual point of the citation - that it refutes your BS that "farmers are obeying the law".


So it's OK for you to lie about the majority of farmers breaking the law because you disagree with some more important point, which is apparently whether they are breaking the law?

When you accuse me of nitpicking, is this your way of saying I am right?


I am not lying, a sample is a sample, and I have no reason to believe it is not representative. No idea why you choose to quibble over this basic point


Because it goes to the heart of the matter. Basically, you assumed it was a random sample, for no reason whatsoever, other than your own ignorance and you inability to think about that the point of the "sampling" process was. I'll give you a hint, they were not conducting a scientific experiment.
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JaSin.
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Re: Unions want to kill non-Union industries
Reply #305 - Nov 12th, 2020 at 6:36pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 7th, 2020 at 8:46am:
Ye Grappler wrote on Oct 21st, 2020 at 10:44am:
Of COURSE the farmers are obeying the law - they are paying the parasites who provide the labour the proper agreed amount per body, and it is the parasites that need a good going over with - lessee now - was watching "Loving Pablo" last night and Escobar's men killed two guys with chainsaws.... it could work!

Where are governments in all this - doing the right thing?  Too busy swinging deals over Badgerys Creek? Wherever there are billions of taxpayer dollars heading their way towards some agreed government initiative - the bastards gather like blow flies on fresh cow sh1t.


No-one is forcing backpackers to use a job agency. They could always travel the countryside, enter every farm gate, drive up to the farmhouse and enquire.


That's true.
It's a whopping 50% of 'who' you know.
So get friendly.
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Ye Grappler
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Re: Unions want to kill non-Union industries
Reply #306 - Nov 14th, 2020 at 4:00pm
 
Scabs should be not seen and not heard... more herded onto cattle trucks for the labour camps...
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Unions want to kill non-Union industries
Reply #307 - Nov 19th, 2020 at 1:43pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 12th, 2020 at 6:29pm:
Basically, you assumed it was a random sample, for no reason whatsoever, other than your own ignorance and you inability to think about that the point of the "sampling" process was. I'll give you a hint, they were not conducting a scientific experiment.


Or perhaps it was because I actually read it?

From the report:

Quote:
The majority of employers involved in the Inquiry were selected randomly.  A smaller number of employers were selected on the basis of intelligence gathered from industry stakeholders, other government agencies and departments, media, community members and workplace participants. The FWO revisited noncompliant employers in subsequent seasons to assess compliance.
(page 4)

Do you have any more bullshit left to continue your deflection?

Or would you like to address the actual issue for once?

- Do you concede the report refutes your BS claim that farmers were complying with the law?

- Do you think this report vindicates the union's insistence on getting involved in this matter, and that it demonstrates that they were interested in something other than simply "wanting to kill non-union industries"?
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John Smith
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Re: Unions want to kill non-Union industries
Reply #308 - Nov 19th, 2020 at 4:23pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 7th, 2020 at 8:46am:
No-one is forcing backpackers to use a job agency. They could always travel the countryside, enter every farm gate, drive up to the farmhouse and enquire.



Grin Grin Grin
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Our esteemed leader:
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Gnads
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Re: Unions want to kill non-Union industries
Reply #309 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:42am
 
freediver wrote on Nov 7th, 2020 at 8:46am:
Ye Grappler wrote on Oct 21st, 2020 at 10:44am:
Of COURSE the farmers are obeying the law - they are paying the parasites who provide the labour the proper agreed amount per body, and it is the parasites that need a good going over with - lessee now - was watching "Loving Pablo" last night and Escobar's men killed two guys with chainsaws.... it could work!

Where are governments in all this - doing the right thing?  Too busy swinging deals over Badgerys Creek? Wherever there are billions of taxpayer dollars heading their way towards some agreed government initiative - the bastards gather like blow flies on fresh cow sh1t.


No-one is forcing backpackers to use a job agency. They could always travel the countryside, enter every farm gate, drive up to the farmhouse and enquire.


Grin Back to the depression days with blokes humping their Bluey all over the countryside looking for a job?

Really progressive is FD Grin

Oh .... and you obviously have no idea how people on the the land feel about "Do Drop Ins" knocking on the farmgate evry day or other day.
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Politicians are like nappies; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.
The most difficult choice a politician must ever make is whether to be a hypocrite or a liar.
 
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Unions want to kill non-Union industries
Reply #310 - Nov 24th, 2020 at 12:59pm
 
Whats wrong FD, you've gone quiet.

You've been disproven plenty of times before - but that doesn't usually stop you rambling on nonsensically. Usually this is where you think up idiotic ad-homs about my religion to sustain your deflections.

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Re: Unions want to kill non-Union industries
Reply #311 - Nov 29th, 2020 at 8:38am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 19th, 2020 at 1:43pm:
freediver wrote on Nov 12th, 2020 at 6:29pm:
Basically, you assumed it was a random sample, for no reason whatsoever, other than your own ignorance and you inability to think about that the point of the "sampling" process was. I'll give you a hint, they were not conducting a scientific experiment.


Or perhaps it was because I actually read it?

From the report:

Quote:
The majority of employers involved in the Inquiry were selected randomly.  A smaller number of employers were selected on the basis of intelligence gathered from industry stakeholders, other government agencies and departments, media, community members and workplace participants. The FWO revisited noncompliant employers in subsequent seasons to assess compliance.
(page 4)

Do you have any more bullshit left to continue your deflection?

Or would you like to address the actual issue for once?

- Do you concede the report refutes your BS claim that farmers were complying with the law?

- Do you think this report vindicates the union's insistence on getting involved in this matter, and that it demonstrates that they were interested in something other than simply "wanting to kill non-union industries"?


Are you now claiming you weren't assuming?

Does it say how many of the randomly sampled employers broke the rules, and how?
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Ayers rock - the first casualty of climb-it change.
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Unions want to kill non-Union industries
Reply #312 - Dec 1st, 2020 at 12:18pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 29th, 2020 at 8:38am:
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 19th, 2020 at 1:43pm:
freediver wrote on Nov 12th, 2020 at 6:29pm:
Basically, you assumed it was a random sample, for no reason whatsoever, other than your own ignorance and you inability to think about that the point of the "sampling" process was. I'll give you a hint, they were not conducting a scientific experiment.


Or perhaps it was because I actually read it?

From the report:

Quote:
The majority of employers involved in the Inquiry were selected randomly.  A smaller number of employers were selected on the basis of intelligence gathered from industry stakeholders, other government agencies and departments, media, community members and workplace participants. The FWO revisited noncompliant employers in subsequent seasons to assess compliance.
(page 4)

Do you have any more bullshit left to continue your deflection?

Or would you like to address the actual issue for once?

- Do you concede the report refutes your BS claim that farmers were complying with the law?

- Do you think this report vindicates the union's insistence on getting involved in this matter, and that it demonstrates that they were interested in something other than simply "wanting to kill non-union industries"?


Are you now claiming you weren't assuming?

Does it say how many of the randomly sampled employers broke the rules, and how?


Grasping much FD? What I "assumed" was that it is a reliable and robust report that accurately demonstrates widespread non-compliance of workplace law by employers in the fruit picking industry. I see nothing in it that indicates to me that this assumption is wrong. Do you? Oh thats right, you haven't read it.

Really FD, none of this makes a scrap of difference to the actual issue here - namely the fact that you were wrong to say "farmers are obeying the law" - and by extension your overall argument that the unions had no good reason to interfere - other than to try and kill non-Union industries. The fact is, the report undeniably shows widespread ripping off of workers by the fruit picking industry - across the nation - which gave the unions a very justifiable reason to get involved. That you cannot dispute - so you carry on with your usual irrelevant pedantry - but pedantry about a point that you haven't even got a clue about. You thought this report included faarking ship builders for christ's sake  Tongue - and then you try and grandstand about making assumptions. Missing, of courss, the irony that this whole thread has been one giant assumption exercise on your part -  "Assuming" that farmers are obeying the law - "assuming" that all unions want to do is kill non-union industries.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Ayn Marx
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Re: Unions want to kill non-Union industries
Reply #313 - Dec 1st, 2020 at 12:45pm
 
Gnads wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:42am:
freediver wrote on Nov 7th, 2020 at 8:46am:
Ye Grappler wrote on Oct 21st, 2020 at 10:44am:
Of COURSE the farmers are obeying the law - they are paying the parasites who provide the labour the proper agreed amount per body, and it is the parasites that need a good going over with - lessee now - was watching "Loving Pablo" last night and Escobar's men killed two guys with chainsaws.... it could work!

Where are governments in all this - doing the right thing?  Too busy swinging deals over Badgerys Creek? Wherever there are billions of taxpayer dollars heading their way towards some agreed government initiative - the bastards gather like blow flies on fresh cow sh1t.


No-one is forcing backpackers to use a job agency. They could always travel the countryside, enter every farm gate, drive up to the farmhouse and enquire.


Grin Back to the depression days with blokes humping their Bluey all over the countryside looking for a job?

Really progressive is FD Grin

Oh .... and you obviously have no idea how people on the the land feel about "Do Drop Ins" knocking on the farm-gate evry day or other day.

In rural Tasmania, where I reside, popping into farmhouses in search of work can be a dangerous activity. Most opium poppy farmers here don’t take kindly to strangers wandering onto their property without invitation. Even the Jehovah’s Witnesses's have learnt that lesson.
As to searching for a fair wage for a decent days work around here forget it. Most of the farmers I’ve spoken to about casual labour are extremely racist . Recently one told me with a straight face. “Them chinks are grateful for every cent they can get their yellow hands on”
We need also to ask some pointed questions as to why so many young Australian students don’t seek farm work during the end of year holidays. After only one stint on a farm providing disgusting accommodation, appalling conditions( i:e tomato fields plagued with red back spiders - my experience) and third world wages why would they bother? In the end though I lay the blame at the feet of supermarkets who screw farmers margins so low they’re forced to exploit their labour force to survive.
Think about the glories of unrestricted capitalism next time you're hunting for cheap fruit and veg etc at Coles/Woolworths. The dairy industry is another appalling story.
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Ye Grappler
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Re: Unions want to kill non-Union industries
Reply #314 - Dec 1st, 2020 at 1:04pm
 
Industries that don't abide by the rules and law of the land are committing suicide.... there endeth the lesson...
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
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