Australian Politics Forum - 4/6 model for Federal Parliament

Auggie Gold Member Offline The Bull Moose Posts: 8571	Re: 4/6 model for Federal Parliament Reply #45 - Jun 3^rd, 2020 at 6:17pm Yadda wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2020 at 8:52am: Study the superior system What is the superior system?
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Auggie

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Re: 4/6 model for Federal Parliament
Reply #46 - Jun 3^rd, 2020 at 6:25pm

Let me put forward some public policy ideas, and then invite people to comment how long they would think it would take from start to finish.

1) Dismantling Medicare and creating an entirely new healthcare system;

2) Abolishing the progressive income tax and replacing it with a flat-tax system;

3) Dismantling the industrial relations system and creating an entirely new system;

4) Having the Constitution amended so that the Commonwealth has power over interstate rivers and irrigation;

5) Overhauling the Federal grants system so that the Commonwealth doesn't use its financial power to strangle States;

6) Implementing campaign finance reform and rules on disclosure;

7) Buying back foreign-owned assets and putting them into Australian hands;

8) Implementing a fair tax system of multinationals...

Now imagine if you wanted to implement all of these reforms. How much time would you need to do it?

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Yadda

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Re: 4/6 model for Federal Parliament
Reply #47 - Jun 3^rd, 2020 at 9:35pm

Auggie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2020 at 6:17pm:

Yadda wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2020 at 8:52am:

Study the superior system

What is the superior system?

King Yadda ?

Or is it, King Auggie ?

I doubt mankind has the moral capacity to [as a group] choose what is 'a superior system'.

And i don't believe that that, is our ['proper'] purpose in being here.

Jeremiah 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Dnarever

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Re: 4/6 model for Federal Parliament
Reply #48 - Jun 3^rd, 2020 at 9:44pm

Auggie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2020 at 6:25pm:

Let me put forward some public policy ideas, and then invite people to comment how long they would think it would take from start to finish.

1) Dismantling Medicare and creating an entirely new healthcare system;

2) Abolishing the progressive income tax and replacing it with a flat-tax system;

3) Dismantling the industrial relations system and creating an entirely new system;

4) Having the Constitution amended so that the Commonwealth has power over interstate rivers and irrigation;

5) Overhauling the Federal grants system so that the Commonwealth doesn't use its financial power to strangle States;

6) Implementing campaign finance reform and rules on disclosure;

7) Buying back foreign-owned assets and putting them into Australian hands;

8) Implementing a fair tax system of multinationals...

Now imagine if you wanted to implement all of these reforms. How much time would you need to do it?

Time is not the issue and in fact a shorter time may be more effective. A longer term is as much an incentive to not do these things.

Politicians have no desire to do any of this and the threat and process of elections are a greater incentive to commit to making the changes that people want.

Longer terms give politicians a greater time frame with no need to do anything and a greater scope to get away with doing the wrong thing in the early term and this falling out of peoples memory cycle.

Besides a good portion of your list would be extremely undesirable if done the wrong way which is how our politicians would do it. A flat tax system - really.

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Dnarever

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Re: 4/6 model for Federal Parliament
Reply #49 - Jun 3^rd, 2020 at 9:50pm

Auggie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2020 at 6:16pm:

Jasin wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2020 at 9:43pm:

...Auggie's trying to force the issue. This might be interesting.

I'm not trying to force anything.

I'm simply making the point that if you're focusing on public policy and want to implement radical change, then 3 years isn't time to do it.

Do you believe it's enough time?

3 Years may be perfect in order to make good changes. More time is an advantage when trying to push through poor changes.

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Auggie

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Re: 4/6 model for Federal Parliament
Reply #50 - Jun 3^rd, 2020 at 10:33pm

Dnarever wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2020 at 9:44pm:

Auggie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2020 at 6:25pm:

Let me put forward some public policy ideas, and then invite people to comment how long they would think it would take from start to finish.

1) Dismantling Medicare and creating an entirely new healthcare system;

2) Abolishing the progressive income tax and replacing it with a flat-tax system;

3) Dismantling the industrial relations system and creating an entirely new system;

4) Having the Constitution amended so that the Commonwealth has power over interstate rivers and irrigation;

5) Overhauling the Federal grants system so that the Commonwealth doesn't use its financial power to strangle States;

6) Implementing campaign finance reform and rules on disclosure;

7) Buying back foreign-owned assets and putting them into Australian hands;

8) Implementing a fair tax system of multinationals...

Now imagine if you wanted to implement all of these reforms. How much time would you need to do it?

Time is not the issue and in fact a shorter time may be more effective. A longer term is as much an incentive to not do these things.

Politicians have no desire to do any of this and the threat and process of elections are a greater incentive to commit to making the changes that people want.

Longer terms give politicians a greater time frame with no need to do anything and a greater scope to get away with doing the wrong thing in the early term and this falling out of peoples memory cycle.

Besides a good portion of your list would be extremely undesirable if done the wrong way which is how our politicians would do it. A flat tax system - really.

A longer term creates higher expectations from the public. If they're in government for longer, then the public will demand more. It's very difficult to sit on your arse during a 24-hour news cycle, and besides a government has to deal a yearly budget. The ultimate incentive for a government to do things is re-election to another term.

Second, we have the Senate, which acts a check on the government.

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Auggie

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Re: 4/6 model for Federal Parliament
Reply #51 - Jun 3^rd, 2020 at 10:36pm

Dnarever wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2020 at 9:50pm:

Auggie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2020 at 6:16pm:

Jasin wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2020 at 9:43pm:

...Auggie's trying to force the issue. This might be interesting.

I'm not trying to force anything.

I'm simply making the point that if you're focusing on public policy and want to implement radical change, then 3 years isn't time to do it.

Do you believe it's enough time?

3 Years may be perfect in order to make good changes. More time is an advantage when trying to push through poor changes.

But how can you make good changes in 3 years? You're spending most of the third year campaigning for re-election, which essentially leaves 2 years in total.

In a 5 year term, the last year would be the campaigning year, making it 4 years. In fact, you could argue that the first year of a term is settling in, determining your agenda, etc. That leaves 3 years for real policy-making.

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Setanta

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Re: 4/6 model for Federal Parliament
Reply #52 - Jun 3^rd, 2020 at 10:47pm

Auggie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2020 at 10:36pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2020 at 9:50pm:

Auggie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2020 at 6:16pm:

Jasin wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2020 at 9:43pm:

...Auggie's trying to force the issue. This might be interesting.

I'm not trying to force anything.

I'm simply making the point that if you're focusing on public policy and want to implement radical change, then 3 years isn't time to do it.

Do you believe it's enough time?

3 Years may be perfect in order to make good changes. More time is an advantage when trying to push through poor changes.

But how can you make good changes in 3 years? You're spending most of the third year campaigning for re-election, which essentially leaves 2 years in total.

In a 5 year term, the last year would be the campaigning year, making it 4 years. In fact, you could argue that the first year of a term is settling in, determining your agenda, etc. That leaves 3 years for real policy-making.

Auggie, Auggie, Auggie... Do you really think a year would make a difference? You keep playing these games like you want and should be the world constitution writer. You are thinking above your pay grade. You are full of it. I'm not saying you should not continue, you should. You should also expect to be called out. At some point you may think of things others have not before. Then you should own it.

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Valkie

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Re: 4/6 model for Federal Parliament
Reply #53 - Jun 4^th, 2020 at 5:38am

Give the population the power to change politicians incomes.

If they perform well, they get a reasonable income.

If they perform badly, they get a pay reduction.

The measuring stick could be the economy, debit, infrastructure and general populace opinion.

Really bad ones could be prosecuted for breech of contract.

Roll this out to all seat polishing bureaucrat public servants as well.

Save Australia, make them accountable.

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I HAVE A DREAM
A WONDERFUL, PEACEFUL, BEAUTIFUL DREAM.
A DREAM OF A WORLD THAT HAS NEVER KNOWN ISLAM
A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM.

SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM
O HOW I WISH IT WERE TRU

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Auggie

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Re: 4/6 model for Federal Parliament
Reply #54 - Jun 4^th, 2020 at 7:25pm

Setanta wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2020 at 10:47pm:

Auggie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2020 at 10:36pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2020 at 9:50pm:

Auggie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2020 at 6:16pm:

Jasin wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2020 at 9:43pm:

...Auggie's trying to force the issue. This might be interesting.

I'm not trying to force anything.

I'm simply making the point that if you're focusing on public policy and want to implement radical change, then 3 years isn't time to do it.

Do you believe it's enough time?

3 Years may be perfect in order to make good changes. More time is an advantage when trying to push through poor changes.

But how can you make good changes in 3 years? You're spending most of the third year campaigning for re-election, which essentially leaves 2 years in total.

In a 5 year term, the last year would be the campaigning year, making it 4 years. In fact, you could argue that the first year of a term is settling in, determining your agenda, etc. That leaves 3 years for real policy-making.

Auggie, Auggie, Auggie... Do you really think a year would make a difference? You keep playing these games like you want and should be the world constitution writer. You are thinking above your pay grade. You are full of it. I'm not saying you should not continue, you should. You should also expect to be called out. At some point you may think of things others have not before. Then you should own it.

No one has ever developed a 4/6 model for Australia. Therefore, I have thought of something others have not.

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Dnarever

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Re: 4/6 model for Federal Parliament
Reply #55 - Jun 4^th, 2020 at 7:28pm

Auggie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2020 at 10:33pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2020 at 9:44pm:

Auggie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2020 at 6:25pm:

Let me put forward some public policy ideas, and then invite people to comment how long they would think it would take from start to finish.

1) Dismantling Medicare and creating an entirely new healthcare system;

2) Abolishing the progressive income tax and replacing it with a flat-tax system;

3) Dismantling the industrial relations system and creating an entirely new system;

4) Having the Constitution amended so that the Commonwealth has power over interstate rivers and irrigation;

5) Overhauling the Federal grants system so that the Commonwealth doesn't use its financial power to strangle States;

6) Implementing campaign finance reform and rules on disclosure;

7) Buying back foreign-owned assets and putting them into Australian hands;

8) Implementing a fair tax system of multinationals...

Now imagine if you wanted to implement all of these reforms. How much time would you need to do it?

Time is not the issue and in fact a shorter time may be more effective. A longer term is as much an incentive to not do these things.

Politicians have no desire to do any of this and the threat and process of elections are a greater incentive to commit to making the changes that people want.

Longer terms give politicians a greater time frame with no need to do anything and a greater scope to get away with doing the wrong thing in the early term and this falling out of peoples memory cycle.

Besides a good portion of your list would be extremely undesirable if done the wrong way which is how our politicians would do it. A flat tax system - really.

A longer term creates higher expectations from the public. If they're in government for longer, then the public will demand more. It's very difficult to sit on your arse during a 24-hour news cycle, and besides a government has to deal a yearly budget. The ultimate incentive for a government to do things is re-election to another term.

Second, we have the Senate, which acts a check on the government.

Quote:

A longer term creates higher expectations from the public.

One straight from your seventh planet and still warm.

The public gave up on expectations decades ago.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47366 At my desk.	Re: 4/6 model for Federal Parliament Reply #56 - Jun 4^th, 2020 at 7:29pm Quote: No one has ever developed a 4/6 model for Australia. Therefore, I have thought of something others have not. Plenty of people would have put far more thought into it than you Auggie.
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Auggie Gold Member Offline The Bull Moose Posts: 8571	Re: 4/6 model for Federal Parliament Reply #57 - Jun 4^th, 2020 at 7:30pm freediver wrote on Jun 4^th, 2020 at 7:29pm: Quote: No one has ever developed a 4/6 model for Australia. Therefore, I have thought of something others have not. Plenty of people would have put far more thought into it than you Auggie. Who are they?
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Auggie

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Re: 4/6 model for Federal Parliament
Reply #58 - Jun 4^th, 2020 at 7:31pm

Dnarever wrote on Jun 4^th, 2020 at 7:28pm:

Auggie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2020 at 10:33pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2020 at 9:44pm:

Auggie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2020 at 6:25pm:

Let me put forward some public policy ideas, and then invite people to comment how long they would think it would take from start to finish.

1) Dismantling Medicare and creating an entirely new healthcare system;

2) Abolishing the progressive income tax and replacing it with a flat-tax system;

3) Dismantling the industrial relations system and creating an entirely new system;

4) Having the Constitution amended so that the Commonwealth has power over interstate rivers and irrigation;

5) Overhauling the Federal grants system so that the Commonwealth doesn't use its financial power to strangle States;

6) Implementing campaign finance reform and rules on disclosure;

7) Buying back foreign-owned assets and putting them into Australian hands;

8) Implementing a fair tax system of multinationals...

Now imagine if you wanted to implement all of these reforms. How much time would you need to do it?

Time is not the issue and in fact a shorter time may be more effective. A longer term is as much an incentive to not do these things.

Politicians have no desire to do any of this and the threat and process of elections are a greater incentive to commit to making the changes that people want.

Longer terms give politicians a greater time frame with no need to do anything and a greater scope to get away with doing the wrong thing in the early term and this falling out of peoples memory cycle.

Besides a good portion of your list would be extremely undesirable if done the wrong way which is how our politicians would do it. A flat tax system - really.

A longer term creates higher expectations from the public. If they're in government for longer, then the public will demand more. It's very difficult to sit on your arse during a 24-hour news cycle, and besides a government has to deal a yearly budget. The ultimate incentive for a government to do things is re-election to another term.

Second, we have the Senate, which acts a check on the government.

Quote:

A longer term creates higher expectations from the public.

One straight from your seventh planet and still warm.

The public gave up on expectations decades ago.

Because government's in Australia can't do anything.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47366 At my desk.	Re: 4/6 model for Federal Parliament Reply #59 - Jun 4^th, 2020 at 7:32pm The people generally don't let them do anything. Letting politicians do things is usually a bad idea. Nothing to do with 3 year terms.
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