Australian Politics Forum - Time to stand up to CHINA

Johnnie

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Re: Time to stand up to CHINA
Reply #30 - May 15^th, 2020 at 12:20pm

tickleandrose wrote on May 15^th, 2020 at 11:05am:

I dont know, what is happening to everyone of you, you all seemed to be suddenly very ideological and not realistic.

FACT: the world is in trouble, COVID 19 is ravaging across the world. Every country will struggle to recover. And for Australia its worse.

For many years, I had been arguing that the basic motor of our economy is wrong. It encourages profit above everything, making manufacturing going overseas not only to China, but other countries as well. It encourages money funneling into unproductive and UN-inovative second hand real estate with capital gains concessions and negative gearing. To such an extend that I can comfortably borrow 1/2 million to buy an 'investment' apartment, but I cant get even half of it, to start a childcare business. Without a strong manufacturing base, we were luckily able to maintain our status via selling raw resources, lands, tourism, and education. But the chicken had come to roost with COVID 19.

Now, all of those sectors that props up the Australian economy is in jeopardy. And we are in big trouble.

And the last thing we want, is to blindly follow USA into another trade war, or worse a hot war. Right now, we import 2% of what China exports, we export 33% of our products to China. Most of our big brands have factories in China. And if you have any experience in investing. It takes time - years perhaps even decades to try to relocate, and then train up staff in another country. Just look around our world, which other countries can we invest into like we did in China? India? Their legal systems are slow, and their infrastructure is simply not upto scratch - may be in 10 or 20 years time. Vietnam, Cambodia? Dont forget they are communists as well.

So the 'change', or 'diversification' takes time, decades to do. But Australia is facing extreme problems RIGHT now! With USA blunder on COVID, and its America first policy, I dont think we can depend on that for our recovery. UK? They are in a whole world of trouble, and their market is far smaller than China, it is not a replacement. Europe is basically in recession.

And in midst of all this, if we start another trade war - what will happen? You do the math.

The trade war has already started, the trouble is we don't have anything to trade.

Its the Chinks being the schoolyard bullies, because of them 300,000 people have died and the world has come to a standstill, whats worse than that is i have lost some money.
Its not like this is the first time they have spread diseases because of their cultural habits.

WE WANT ANSWERS.

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John Smith

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Re: Time to stand up to CHINA
Reply #31 - May 15^th, 2020 at 12:24pm

tickleandrose wrote on May 15^th, 2020 at 11:05am:

I dont know, what is happening to everyone of you, you all seemed to be suddenly very ideological and not realistic.

FACT: the world is in trouble, COVID 19 is ravaging across the world. Every country will struggle to recover. And for Australia its worse.

For many years, I had been arguing that the basic motor of our economy is wrong. It encourages profit above everything, making manufacturing going overseas not only to China, but other countries as well. It encourages money funneling into unproductive and UN-inovative second hand real estate with capital gains concessions and negative gearing. To such an extend that I can comfortably borrow 1/2 million to buy an 'investment' apartment, but I cant get even half of it, to start a childcare business. Without a strong manufacturing base, we were luckily able to maintain our status via selling raw resources, lands, tourism, and education. But the chicken had come to roost with COVID 19.

Now, all of those sectors that props up the Australian economy is in jeopardy. And we are in big trouble.

And the last thing we want, is to blindly follow USA into another trade war, or worse a hot war. Right now, we import 2% of what China exports, we export 33% of our products to China. Most of our big brands have factories in China. And if you have any experience in investing. It takes time - years perhaps even decades to try to relocate, and then train up staff in another country. Just look around our world, which other countries can we invest into like we did in China? India? Their legal systems are slow, and their infrastructure is simply not upto scratch - may be in 10 or 20 years time. Vietnam, Cambodia? Dont forget they are communists as well.

So the 'change', or 'diversification' takes time, decades to do. But Australia is facing extreme problems RIGHT now! With USA blunder on COVID, and its America first policy, I dont think we can depend on that for our recovery. UK? They are in a whole world of trouble, and their market is far smaller than China, it is not a replacement. Europe is basically in recession.

And in midst of all this, if we start another trade war - what will happen? You do the math.

well said

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Fuzzball Gold Member Offline Posts: 6381 Australia Gender:	Re: Time to stand up to CHINA Reply #32 - May 15^th, 2020 at 12:49pm For the most part, Australia's economy is reliant upon China's patronage, how the hell it could "stand up to China" and come out on top is 'wishful thinking'......and nothing else. China already owns most of this country.
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SadKangaroo Gold Member Offline #FightStupid Posts: 14879 Mianjin (Brisbane)	Re: Time to stand up to CHINA Reply #33 - May 15^th, 2020 at 1:03pm "Oh it's not racist to want to stand up for Australian against the chinks" No, it's not, but if you're going to call them that then there is no chance of any rational debate with you. Please kindly go bugger yourself.
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SadKangaroo

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Re: Time to stand up to CHINA
Reply #34 - May 15^th, 2020 at 1:06pm

Fuzzball wrote on May 15^th, 2020 at 12:49pm:

For the most part, Australia's economy is reliant upon China's patronage, how the hell it could "stand up to China" and come out on top is 'wishful thinking'......and nothing else. China already owns most of this country. Undecided

Exactly, that's the problem. I'm not saying don't transition away from this position of weakness, just do it smartly. Don't cut off your nose to spite your face.

If all those who claim to have our economic interests at heart still demand we do a show of strength against them or try to battle a trade war are rushing in blindly and it shows their economic concerns are totally bullshit and just a cover some something else.

I wonder what...?

Better not say it otherwise they'll get twiggerwd.

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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 57172 Here Gender:	Re: Time to stand up to CHINA Reply #35 - May 15^th, 2020 at 1:08pm It was dumb for an Australian PM to blast Chine based on a conspiracy theory. The world will act to have an investigation in due course. Our second rate PM being dumb and screwing Australia for no reason is just incredibly stupid.
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Johnnie Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 12485 Gender:	Re: Time to stand up to CHINA Reply #36 - May 15^th, 2020 at 1:19pm We are being screwed by the Chinks and they know we have no weapons to fight back with, the bullies are responsible for 300,000 deaths and growing by the second yet the apologists linger. Where do our so called Australian Chinese stand in all of this, the silence is deafening, allegiance to CCP!
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Gordon

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Re: Time to stand up to CHINA
Reply #37 - May 15^th, 2020 at 1:27pm

Dnarever wrote on May 15^th, 2020 at 1:08pm:

It was dumb for an Australian PM to blast Chine based on a conspiracy theory.

The world will act to have an investigation in due course. Our second rate PM being dumb and screwing Australia for no reason is just incredibly stupid.

The WuFlu originating in China is a conspiracy theory?

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SadKangaroo

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Re: Time to stand up to CHINA
Reply #38 - May 15^th, 2020 at 1:41pm

Johnnie wrote on May 15^th, 2020 at 1:19pm:

We are being screwed by the Chinks and they know we have no weapons to fight back with, the bullies are responsible for 300,000 deaths and growing by the second yet the apologists linger.

Where do our so called Australian Chinese stand in all of this, the silence is deafening, allegiance to CCP!

China has a lot to answer for, but if you go after them based on conspiracy theories you're only hurting your chances of holding them to account for what they can be proven to have done.

In this case, they did not lock themselves down fast enough, during CNY of all tine where people travelled all throughout China and then the rest of the world, and were dishonest about the extent of the problem they faced and likely still do.

They're not the only ones who are on the chopping block for their inaction, or even their deliberate cover-up, but that's no excuse to let them off.

We could be smart about what happens next, bring back our industries lost to them and regulate their survival, or we could just sit back and use racial slurs and turn our brains off, getting all triggered when said racial slurs gets those responsible for using them called racist.

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tickleandrose

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Re: Time to stand up to CHINA
Reply #39 - May 15^th, 2020 at 3:03pm

Johnnie wrote on May 15^th, 2020 at 12:20pm:

tickleandrose wrote on May 15^th, 2020 at 11:05am:

I dont know, what is happening to everyone of you, you all seemed to be suddenly very ideological and not realistic.

FACT: the world is in trouble, COVID 19 is ravaging across the world. Every country will struggle to recover. And for Australia its worse.

For many years, I had been arguing that the basic motor of our economy is wrong. It encourages profit above everything, making manufacturing going overseas not only to China, but other countries as well. It encourages money funneling into unproductive and UN-inovative second hand real estate with capital gains concessions and negative gearing. To such an extend that I can comfortably borrow 1/2 million to buy an 'investment' apartment, but I cant get even half of it, to start a childcare business. Without a strong manufacturing base, we were luckily able to maintain our status via selling raw resources, lands, tourism, and education. But the chicken had come to roost with COVID 19.

Now, all of those sectors that props up the Australian economy is in jeopardy. And we are in big trouble.

And the last thing we want, is to blindly follow USA into another trade war, or worse a hot war. Right now, we import 2% of what China exports, we export 33% of our products to China. Most of our big brands have factories in China. And if you have any experience in investing. It takes time - years perhaps even decades to try to relocate, and then train up staff in another country. Just look around our world, which other countries can we invest into like we did in China? India? Their legal systems are slow, and their infrastructure is simply not upto scratch - may be in 10 or 20 years time. Vietnam, Cambodia? Dont forget they are communists as well.

So the 'change', or 'diversification' takes time, decades to do. But Australia is facing extreme problems RIGHT now! With USA blunder on COVID, and its America first policy, I dont think we can depend on that for our recovery. UK? They are in a whole world of trouble, and their market is far smaller than China, it is not a replacement. Europe is basically in recession.

And in midst of all this, if we start another trade war - what will happen? You do the math.

The trade war has already started, the trouble is we don't have anything to trade.

Its the Chinks being the schoolyard bullies, because of them 300,000 people have died and the world has come to a standstill, whats worse than that is i have lost some money.
Its not like this is the first time they have spread diseases because of their cultural habits.

WE WANT ANSWERS.

So... are you Australian or American? Because, whilst there had been a trade war between China and USA, and we are indirectly effected, the direct trade relationship between Australia and China is relatively spared of damage. Most of the surprise surplus of Morrison government came from our export of steel and iron to China. We also export, food like barley, beef, tourism, education. If you walk down China Town in CBD melbourne, basically the whole place is catering to the tourism and education industry. Without both, these businesses would shut and die off.

I think China is just like the USA. They were too afraid to shut down and attempts to play down and cover up because of fear of hit to the economy. The difference is that, instead of being in denial, they acted with the entire kitchen sink, whilst the USA just step up the blame game and give up.

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Gordon

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Re: Time to stand up to CHINA
Reply #40 - May 15^th, 2020 at 3:13pm

tickleandrose wrote on May 15^th, 2020 at 3:03pm:

Johnnie wrote on May 15^th, 2020 at 12:20pm:

tickleandrose wrote on May 15^th, 2020 at 11:05am:

I dont know, what is happening to everyone of you, you all seemed to be suddenly very ideological and not realistic.

FACT: the world is in trouble, COVID 19 is ravaging across the world. Every country will struggle to recover. And for Australia its worse.

For many years, I had been arguing that the basic motor of our economy is wrong. It encourages profit above everything, making manufacturing going overseas not only to China, but other countries as well. It encourages money funneling into unproductive and UN-inovative second hand real estate with capital gains concessions and negative gearing. To such an extend that I can comfortably borrow 1/2 million to buy an 'investment' apartment, but I cant get even half of it, to start a childcare business. Without a strong manufacturing base, we were luckily able to maintain our status via selling raw resources, lands, tourism, and education. But the chicken had come to roost with COVID 19.

Now, all of those sectors that props up the Australian economy is in jeopardy. And we are in big trouble.

And the last thing we want, is to blindly follow USA into another trade war, or worse a hot war. Right now, we import 2% of what China exports, we export 33% of our products to China. Most of our big brands have factories in China. And if you have any experience in investing. It takes time - years perhaps even decades to try to relocate, and then train up staff in another country. Just look around our world, which other countries can we invest into like we did in China? India? Their legal systems are slow, and their infrastructure is simply not upto scratch - may be in 10 or 20 years time. Vietnam, Cambodia? Dont forget they are communists as well.

So the 'change', or 'diversification' takes time, decades to do. But Australia is facing extreme problems RIGHT now! With USA blunder on COVID, and its America first policy, I dont think we can depend on that for our recovery. UK? They are in a whole world of trouble, and their market is far smaller than China, it is not a replacement. Europe is basically in recession.

And in midst of all this, if we start another trade war - what will happen? You do the math.

The trade war has already started, the trouble is we don't have anything to trade.

Its the Chinks being the schoolyard bullies, because of them 300,000 people have died and the world has come to a standstill, whats worse than that is i have lost some money.
Its not like this is the first time they have spread diseases because of their cultural habits.

WE WANT ANSWERS.

So... are you Australian or American? Because, whilst there had been a trade war between China and USA, and we are indirectly effected, the direct trade relationship between Australia and China is relatively spared of damage. Most of the surprise surplus of Morrison government came from our export of steel and iron to China. We also export, food like barley, beef, tourism, education. If you walk down China Town in CBD melbourne, basically the whole place is catering to the tourism and education industry. Without both, these businesses would shut and die off.

I think China is just like the USA. They were too afraid to shut down and attempts to play down and cover up because of fear of hit to the economy. The difference is that, instead of being in denial, they acted with the entire kitchen sink, whilst the USA just step up the blame game and give up.

You're becoming increasingly protective of China and it sounds bad.

The American President/Govt will change in a few months or 4 years.
China will have the CCP for a little while yet I imagine.

Now if you can hold two thoughts in your head at the same time, try this.

Trump is blaming China as a deflection but China is also very much to blame and the world WILL be asking for answers.

China is not our friend, and they will not cooperate in any way shape or form in an international inquiry on how this happened.

Just look at their dummy spit on the mere suggestion of it.

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tickleandrose

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Re: Time to stand up to CHINA
Reply #41 - May 15^th, 2020 at 3:26pm

Re gordon

Quote:

You're becoming increasingly protective of China and it sounds bad.

The American President/Govt will change in a few months or 4 years.
China will have the CCP for a little while yet I imagine.

Now if you can hold two thoughts in your head at the same time, try this.

Trump is blaming China as a deflection but China is also very much to blame and the world WILL be asking for answers.

China is not our friend, and they will not cooperate in any way shape or form in an international inquiry on how this happened.

Just look at their dummy spit on the mere suggestion of it.

I am just being realistic, and non biased. These two countries are the largest two superpowers in the world. No matter what happens, Australia will not, and cannot hold either of them accountable. This is a fact of life, its cruel, and at times unjust, but this is being the order of our civilization for thousands of years, its not going to change now.

No China is not our friend. However, it is our trading partner. And right now, the speed and the way in which we can recover from this COVID 19 crisis depending heavily on China. You may not like it, you may want to change it. Fine, but.. this is the reality right now. Any changes will have to wait. Even the best of the times, establishing new trade deals, investments takes years, if not decades. And now, you are in a world of COVID 19, where every country is effected, the financial market is in crisis, if you are a big business, who is going to lend you money to invest in a new venture in a new market right now? And how are you going to reinvest when you are in danger of going bust yourself, which is whats happening to most businesses in Australia. Do not forget, just yesterday, we had increase of 600 000 unemployed within a month. Something never occurred since our federation.

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John Smith

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Re: Time to stand up to CHINA
Reply #42 - May 15^th, 2020 at 4:53pm

tickleandrose wrote on May 15^th, 2020 at 3:26pm:

Re gordon

Quote:

You're becoming increasingly protective of China and it sounds bad.

The American President/Govt will change in a few months or 4 years.
China will have the CCP for a little while yet I imagine.

Now if you can hold two thoughts in your head at the same time, try this.

Trump is blaming China as a deflection but China is also very much to blame and the world WILL be asking for answers.

China is not our friend, and they will not cooperate in any way shape or form in an international inquiry on how this happened.

Just look at their dummy spit on the mere suggestion of it.

I am just being realistic, and non biased. These two countries are the largest two superpowers in the world. No matter what happens, Australia will not, and cannot hold either of them accountable. This is a fact of life, its cruel, and at times unjust, but this is being the order of our civilization for thousands of years, its not going to change now.

No China is not our friend. However, it is our trading partner. And right now, the speed and the way in which we can recover from this COVID 19 crisis depending heavily on China. You may not like it, you may want to change it. Fine, but.. this is the reality right now. Any changes will have to wait. Even the best of the times, establishing new trade deals, investments takes years, if not decades. And now, you are in a world of COVID 19, where every country is effected, the financial market is in crisis, if you are a big business, who is going to lend you money to invest in a new venture in a new market right now? And how are you going to reinvest when you are in danger of going bust yourself, which is whats happening to most businesses in Australia. Do not forget, just yesterday, we had increase of 600 000 unemployed within a month. Something never occurred since our federation.

you're on a roll today tickle ... another good post Wink

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Gordon

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Re: Time to stand up to CHINA
Reply #43 - May 15^th, 2020 at 5:06pm

tickleandrose wrote on May 15^th, 2020 at 3:26pm:

Re gordon

Quote:

You're becoming increasingly protective of China and it sounds bad.

The American President/Govt will change in a few months or 4 years.
China will have the CCP for a little while yet I imagine.

Now if you can hold two thoughts in your head at the same time, try this.

Trump is blaming China as a deflection but China is also very much to blame and the world WILL be asking for answers.

China is not our friend, and they will not cooperate in any way shape or form in an international inquiry on how this happened.

Just look at their dummy spit on the mere suggestion of it.

I am just being realistic, and non biased. These two countries are the largest two superpowers in the world. No matter what happens, Australia will not, and cannot hold either of them accountable. This is a fact of life, its cruel, and at times unjust, but this is being the order of our civilization for thousands of years, its not going to change now.

No China is not our friend. However, it is our trading partner. And right now, the speed and the way in which we can recover from this COVID 19 crisis depending heavily on China. You may not like it, you may want to change it. Fine, but.. this is the reality right now. Any changes will have to wait. Even the best of the times, establishing new trade deals, investments takes years, if not decades. And now, you are in a world of COVID 19, where every country is effected, the financial market is in crisis, if you are a big business, who is going to lend you money to invest in a new venture in a new market right now? And how are you going to reinvest when you are in danger of going bust yourself, which is whats happening to most businesses in Australia. Do not forget, just yesterday, we had increase of 600 000 unemployed within a month. Something never occurred since our federation.

What you said is all true, but you're side stepping the entire issue that China has to grow up and take responsibility and fully cooperate, bet we know they won't because they're a secretive and paranoid police state.

Two Covid pandemics from China in 20 years. Should the world just sit around and smile because China is the current big spender and just hope the 3rd Chinese pandemic doesn't have a 60% fatality rate?

And BTW, China needs us (countries who supply high quality goods) more than we need them.

We can develop alternative growing markets like India, Indonesia and Africa but the Chinese middle class and wealthy will not tolerate their living standards going backwards, that will make the people unsettled and that's the last thing the CCP needs.

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Jasin

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Re: Time to stand up to CHINA
Reply #44 - May 15^th, 2020 at 6:59pm

Gordon wrote on May 15^th, 2020 at 5:06pm:

tickleandrose wrote on May 15^th, 2020 at 3:26pm:

Re gordon

Quote:

You're becoming increasingly protective of China and it sounds bad.

The American President/Govt will change in a few months or 4 years.
China will have the CCP for a little while yet I imagine.

Now if you can hold two thoughts in your head at the same time, try this.

Trump is blaming China as a deflection but China is also very much to blame and the world WILL be asking for answers.

China is not our friend, and they will not cooperate in any way shape or form in an international inquiry on how this happened.

Just look at their dummy spit on the mere suggestion of it.

I am just being realistic, and non biased. These two countries are the largest two superpowers in the world. No matter what happens, Australia will not, and cannot hold either of them accountable. This is a fact of life, its cruel, and at times unjust, but this is being the order of our civilization for thousands of years, its not going to change now.

No China is not our friend. However, it is our trading partner. And right now, the speed and the way in which we can recover from this COVID 19 crisis depending heavily on China. You may not like it, you may want to change it. Fine, but.. this is the reality right now. Any changes will have to wait. Even the best of the times, establishing new trade deals, investments takes years, if not decades. And now, you are in a world of COVID 19, where every country is effected, the financial market is in crisis, if you are a big business, who is going to lend you money to invest in a new venture in a new market right now? And how are you going to reinvest when you are in danger of going bust yourself, which is whats happening to most businesses in Australia. Do not forget, just yesterday, we had increase of 600 000 unemployed within a month. Something never occurred since our federation.

What you said is all true, but you're side stepping the entire issue that China has to grow up and take responsibility and fully cooperate, bet we know they won't because they're a secretive and paranoid police state.

Two Covid pandemics from China in 20 years. Should the world just sit around and smile because China is the current big spender and just hope the 3rd Chinese pandemic doesn't have a 60% fatality rate?

And BTW, China needs us (countries who supply high quality goods) more than we need them.

We can develop alternative growing markets like India, Indonesia and Africa but the Chinese middle class and wealthy will not tolerate their living standards going backwards, that will make the people unsettled and that's the last thing the CCP needs.

[highlighted]
Maybe all those people can go work for African Bantu now, rather than Asian Han? Or are they just 'Racist' against Trading with Bantu? Huh

Get to work unemployed! Tongue

There's a whole NEW Market out there. Cool

F*uck China! Grin

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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