Australian Politics Forum - Time to stand up to CHINA

red baron

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Time to stand up to CHINA
May 13^th, 2020 at 9:15am

In recent days we have seen China place an 80% tarrif on Australian Barley

Now they have banned meat imports from 4 Australian producers

This is a direct punishment because Prime Minister Morrison has the gall to ask for an investigation into the outbreak of Covid19 in China. He declared his request with 'honest intent'

In other words there isn't an agenda attached to it. The world needs to know just how this outbreak started so that measures can be put into place to avoid a repeat performance

China has been scurrilous in its handling of Covid right from the word Go, when one of their own doctors discovered it. He was censored by the authoritarian Chinese Government. He subsequently died from the infection of Covid he got from his patients

Once the cat was out of the bag the Chinese did an about turn and honoured him
as a hero

Typical Chinese crap

This world bully needs to be brought into line

Never forget what happened with Europe and Hitler. If the world lets China get away with this there will be no stopping them in their world domination ambitions

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 37678 Gender:	Re: Time to stand up to CHINA Reply #1 - May 13^th, 2020 at 10:02am Where you been?
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SadKangaroo

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Re: Time to stand up to CHINA
Reply #2 - May 13^th, 2020 at 11:38am

The problem with standing up to China, sorry CHINA, from an Australian point of view is that we need another trading partner or group of trading partners to replace them overnight.

We'd also need lots of regulation in place to protect our export industries and force more local supply.

It's a lot to do, too much for this Government even without COVID-19 as it goes against many of their current core principles of protecting the interests of their donors.

Much of them profit heavily if not exclusively from deals with China.

A lot of conspiratards are now focused on China and entering this debate without the smallest understanding of how complex it is and how little they know about it. They're armed with "Trump" understanding of international relations, trade and diplomacy.

Aka, tariffs fix everything. Trump would have only used them to fight COVID-19 if he could.

Expect a lot of really stupid takes on this issue. Normally I would try to help people understand, but these type of people, they don't want to. They prefer what they think they know and there is now calibre of evidence that will change their minds.

Edit: Sorry Baron, on reading that it comes off as if I'm talking about you, I'm not. I agree that we need to get to the bottom of what happened, not because it will prove it was engineered in a lab because that outcome seems unlikely and even harder to prove given the time that has gone by, but if it did come from the wet markets as is suspected, really global reform int these areas are needed. It will be very difficult to achieve this if it cannot be proven this is where the latest virus came from, especially given the cultural significance and way of life these markets are. None of my comment was an observation on you, sorry for any confusion.

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cods Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 88048	Re: Time to stand up to CHINA Reply #3 - May 13^th, 2020 at 11:47am I would think we could do more business with Britain now they are not tied to the EU..one thing about food is everyone needs it.. we can live without the trash China makes and sells look at the crap that comes out at Xmas Time.. absolute rubbish and we buy it.....they laugh at us... they truly do..
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SadKangaroo

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Re: Time to stand up to CHINA
Reply #4 - May 13^th, 2020 at 12:00pm

cods wrote on May 13^th, 2020 at 11:47am:

I would think we could do more business with Britain now they are not tied to the EU..one thing about food is everyone needs it..

we can live without the trash China makes and sells look at the crap that comes out at Xmas Time.. absolute rubbish and we buy it.....they laugh at us... they truly do.. Roll Eyes

It's a great opportunity to have the economic reset include bringing industry back but doing so in a more environmentally friendly way. The way China does it now, it's killing their country and their people.

If we're going to start doing it again we need to be smarter about it. This is what the UN was suggesting that the usual smacking idiots twisted to mean they want the west to de-industrialise, which isn't the case at all.

But you know, people just make up what they want to be true these days, what can you do.

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cods

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Re: Time to stand up to CHINA
Reply #5 - May 13^th, 2020 at 12:06pm

SadKangaroo wrote on May 13^th, 2020 at 12:00pm:

cods wrote on May 13^th, 2020 at 11:47am:

I would think we could do more business with Britain now they are not tied to the EU..one thing about food is everyone needs it..

we can live without the trash China makes and sells look at the crap that comes out at Xmas Time.. absolute rubbish and we buy it.....they laugh at us... they truly do.. Roll Eyes

It's a great opportunity to have the economic reset include bringing industry back but doing so in a more environmentally friendly way. The way China does it now, it's killing their country and their people.

If we're going to start doing it again we need to be smarter about it. This is what the UN was suggesting that the usual smacking idiots twisted to mean they want the west to de-industrialise, which isn't the case at all.

But you know, people just make up what they want to be true these days, what can you do.

mate we have to stop being GREEDY yes thats you and I... we want more and bigger all the time.....its us the consumers that drove our manufacturing away.....

we cant have high wages more holidays...and cheaper products it doesnt work like that...

we are our own worst enemy.....and now we are paying for it....

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chimera Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8562 armidale Gender:	Re: Time to stand up to CHINA Reply #6 - May 13^th, 2020 at 12:53pm Scomo and his gun-slingers are itching to pull the trigger , just waiting for Big Don to ride into town. Just waiting.. Don where are you.. Don.. Tariffs they reckon , we'll blast them out..hmm more tariffs.. no Don.. (cough cough) just a cough.. erm .about the tariffs..
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Jasin

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Re: Time to stand up to CHINA
Reply #7 - May 13^th, 2020 at 12:58pm

Who did Australia Trade with before China got some Economic gusto in the last 60 years?
We existed well enough before then.
We didn't need to depend on them by 40% (50% with Nippon & South Korea) as we do today.
Even if China didn't play the Bully. Would it be sensible to rely on an Economy (China) that gets sick time and again and throws things into chaos?

China rests easy in the predictable USA Political style.
But Australian Politics is a new angle to the world and China fears it more than the USA.
China sees Australia as a dangerous Economic competitor - especially when our Economic strength is 'Quality over Quantity'.

Why can't Australia open up new and innovative niche markets with Africa?
Author Stephen Donaldson labelled Africa as the Staff of Life that opens up an answer and cure for all the Pollution and Sunbane problems of environmental chaos.

Time for Australia to move ahead into the new and stop relying on an old Economy of what put us into this mess in the first place.

If Australian Politicians can't stand up to China now - they never will and we will be worse off down the track... nothing more than a Service Provider economy for China - just as the UK is atm.

We'll be just a pre-fabricated Suburb that provides local revenue for another Woolworths/Coles outlet.

You all cry for a Republic, well now it's time to show how 'Independent' we really can be and for a bunch of Convicts who were sent here for stealing a loaf of bread and other petty economic advantages - you would think we would know how to steal the Economic rug from under China to some degree.

Time to earn a Republic by becoming more Economically Independent.
The Liberals, especially under Turnbull. Pumped out the adds for 'Innovation' - well lets see how 'innovative' our Politicians are... especially when Albanese is asking for this right now. Time to 'change'.

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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SadKangaroo

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Re: Time to stand up to CHINA
Reply #8 - May 13^th, 2020 at 1:06pm

cods wrote on May 13^th, 2020 at 12:06pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on May 13^th, 2020 at 12:00pm:

cods wrote on May 13^th, 2020 at 11:47am:

I would think we could do more business with Britain now they are not tied to the EU..one thing about food is everyone needs it..

we can live without the trash China makes and sells look at the crap that comes out at Xmas Time.. absolute rubbish and we buy it.....they laugh at us... they truly do.. Roll Eyes

It's a great opportunity to have the economic reset include bringing industry back but doing so in a more environmentally friendly way. The way China does it now, it's killing their country and their people.

If we're going to start doing it again we need to be smarter about it. This is what the UN was suggesting that the usual smacking idiots twisted to mean they want the west to de-industrialise, which isn't the case at all.

But you know, people just make up what they want to be true these days, what can you do.

mate we have to stop being GREEDY yes thats you and I... we want more and bigger all the time.....its us the consumers that drove our manufacturing away.....

we cant have high wages more holidays...and cheaper products it doesnt work like that...

we are our own worst enemy.....and now we are paying for it....

Our "throw away economy" was never sustainable so yeah, we all need to make a change.

But it would require that everyone in the country come together, work together and change.

It may work here, but countries like the US, we've seen that's impossible.

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Jasin

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Re: Time to stand up to CHINA
Reply #9 - May 13^th, 2020 at 1:21pm

We now have the advantage of a Domestic Economy 'Free' from being Locked Down, like all the others around the world.

We can really turn up the heat by creating all new niches to get ahead domestically more than other nations, maybe even over-taking some that are already ahead of us.

Or are we gonna blame the British for our Failures and go crying to the USA as usual?

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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aquascoot

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Re: Time to stand up to CHINA
Reply #10 - May 13^th, 2020 at 1:34pm

SadKangaroo wrote on May 13^th, 2020 at 12:00pm:

cods wrote on May 13^th, 2020 at 11:47am:

I would think we could do more business with Britain now they are not tied to the EU..one thing about food is everyone needs it..

we can live without the trash China makes and sells look at the crap that comes out at Xmas Time.. absolute rubbish and we buy it.....they laugh at us... they truly do.. Roll Eyes

It's a great opportunity to have the economic reset include bringing industry back but doing so in a more environmentally friendly way. The way China does it now, it's killing their country and their people.

If we're going to start doing it again we need to be smarter about it. This is what the UN was suggesting that the usual smacking idiots twisted to mean they want the west to de-industrialise, which isn't the case at all.

But you know, people just make up what they want to be true these days, what can you do.

sorry sad, but we're just too lazy.

i have a mate who had a chinese laborer who used to mow his lawn, do landscaping. he couldnt believe how a guy could work that hard.
needless to say that chinaman now owns a couple of houses .

my neices and nephews come up to my farm.
i say "lets go collect some firewood".
they amble about and pick up a few little twigs, whilst i chuck logs into the back of the ute. they are all in their 20's. i could out work everyone of them with my arms tied behind my back. they arent bad kids. they just have no concept of what hard work is. the work ethic of most australians is a joke to me. when i hear australians talking about restarting hard jobs in manufacturing , i laugh my frigging head off. its HILARIOUS to me.
they want fake jobs shuffling papers in air conditioned offices. even then they get exhausted by 10 am " Grin

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Jasin

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Re: Time to stand up to CHINA
Reply #11 - May 13^th, 2020 at 1:43pm

In the Old Days - life was mentally simple, but physically hard.
In the New Days - life is mentally complicated, but physically easy (with machines doing most the manual labour).

Funny how people today pine for 'the simpler days' in these over-complicated New World 'electronic' economies.

It's the white-collar office IT worker who is now the 'common herd' and the so-called 'Worker' class.

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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Gordon

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Re: Time to stand up to CHINA
Reply #12 - May 13^th, 2020 at 1:56pm

SadKangaroo wrote on May 13^th, 2020 at 11:38am:

The problem with standing up to China, sorry CHINA, from an Australian point of view is that we need another trading partner or group of trading partners to replace them overnight.

We'd also need lots of regulation in place to protect our export industries and force more local supply.

It's a lot to do, too much for this Government even without COVID-19 as it goes against many of their current core principles of protecting the interests of their donors.

Much of them profit heavily if not exclusively from deals with China.

A lot of conspiratards are now focused on China and entering this debate without the smallest understanding of how complex it is and how little they know about it. They're armed with "Trump" understanding of international relations, trade and diplomacy.

Aka, tariffs fix everything. Trump would have only used them to fight COVID-19 if he could.

Expect a lot of really stupid takes on this issue. Normally I would try to help people understand, but these type of people, they don't want to. They prefer what they think they know and there is now calibre of evidence that will change their minds.

Edit: Sorry Baron, on reading that it comes off as if I'm talking about you, I'm not. I agree that we need to get to the bottom of what happened, not because it will prove it was engineered in a lab because that outcome seems unlikely and even harder to prove given the time that has gone by, but if it did come from the wet markets as is suspected, really global reform int these areas are needed. It will be very difficult to achieve this if it cannot be proven this is where the latest virus came from, especially given the cultural significance and way of life these markets are. None of my comment was an observation on you, sorry for any confusion.

The wealth we get from China may not be enough to offset the damage of the infiltration and control which they seek in Australia.

The CCP are not our friends, in no way shape or form.

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Jasin

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Re: Time to stand up to CHINA
Reply #13 - May 13^th, 2020 at 2:03pm

Gordon wrote on May 13^th, 2020 at 1:56pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on May 13^th, 2020 at 11:38am:

The problem with standing up to China, sorry CHINA, from an Australian point of view is that we need another trading partner or group of trading partners to replace them overnight.

We'd also need lots of regulation in place to protect our export industries and force more local supply.

It's a lot to do, too much for this Government even without COVID-19 as it goes against many of their current core principles of protecting the interests of their donors.

Much of them profit heavily if not exclusively from deals with China.

A lot of conspiratards are now focused on China and entering this debate without the smallest understanding of how complex it is and how little they know about it. They're armed with "Trump" understanding of international relations, trade and diplomacy.

Aka, tariffs fix everything. Trump would have only used them to fight COVID-19 if he could.

Expect a lot of really stupid takes on this issue. Normally I would try to help people understand, but these type of people, they don't want to. They prefer what they think they know and there is now calibre of evidence that will change their minds.

Edit: Sorry Baron, on reading that it comes off as if I'm talking about you, I'm not. I agree that we need to get to the bottom of what happened, not because it will prove it was engineered in a lab because that outcome seems unlikely and even harder to prove given the time that has gone by, but if it did come from the wet markets as is suspected, really global reform int these areas are needed. It will be very difficult to achieve this if it cannot be proven this is where the latest virus came from, especially given the cultural significance and way of life these markets are. None of my comment was an observation on you, sorry for any confusion.

The wealth we get from China may not be enough to offset the damage of the infiltration and control which they seek in Australia.

The CCP are not our friends, in no way shape or form.

That's right. Their Economy has only one thing on its mind for Australia, to weaken it, destroy it and replace it.

We may not be able to beat them Militarily (or even Politically) atm - but we can sure give them the stick Economically.
Our Power relies on the rest of the world, who will follow our lead.

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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SadKangaroo Gold Member Offline #FightStupid Posts: 14879 Mianjin (Brisbane)	Re: Time to stand up to CHINA Reply #14 - May 13^th, 2020 at 2:53pm Correct, they're not in this for us, but we are. If we're going to kill the trade, without doing it wisely it will destroy us. I think we all want the same outcome, it's just I'd prefer it be done right the first time without our needs first and foremost.
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