Australian Politics Forum - symbols for innovation are not the real thing

freediver

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symbols for innovation are not the real thing
May 6^th, 2020 at 12:43pm

This seems like a perennial issue that reactionaries like to bring up.

Sir lastnail wrote on May 5^th, 2020 at 10:24pm:

freediver wrote on May 5^th, 2020 at 10:20pm:

Bobby. wrote on May 5^th, 2020 at 10:08pm:

freediver wrote on May 5^th, 2020 at 9:59pm:

Innovation. Liberty. And sending mountains of dirt over to China. Basically, doing the jobs that pay buckets of money and letting the Chinese make our shirts for us.

All these past symbols of our prestige that you feel compelled to return to, or at least, make your fellow countrymen return to, are the things that used to be innovative, but are not any more.

What Innovation?

We're not like Germany that invests money into industry
to make the best lathes, tools, cars, robots and other devices
that sell at premium prices throughout the world.
We don't value add.
There is nothing to be proud of spending most of
our money getting into more and more debt over houses.

You are still thinking in symbols of innovation, not actual innovation. We can take a pile of dirt and turn it into $100000 plus salaries.

Who gives a bugger who has the bast lathe?

And you must still think the imported finished good is less than the raw materials it is made from Cheesy

LOL

I think money talks, BS walks. Swapping dirt for cars sounds like a good idea to me.

Again, you are thinking in symbols. To you, shiny cars are a symbol of modern technology. I see a technology that has been around for over a century and is now being taken over by developing countries with cheap labour.

Why do you envy the people who are willing to work hard for a quarter of your salary to give you cheap goods? You should pity them, not seek to emulate them, or force others to emulate them.

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Sir lastnail

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Re: symbols for innovation are not the real thing
Reply #1 - May 6^th, 2020 at 9:44pm

freediver wrote on May 6^th, 2020 at 12:43pm:

I think money talks, BS walks. Swapping dirt for cars sounds like a good idea to me.

Again, you are thinking in symbols. To you, shiny cars are a symbol of modern technology. I see a technology that has been around for over a century and is now being taken over by developing countries with cheap labour.

Why do you envy the people who are willing to work hard for a quarter of your salary to give you cheap goods? You should pity them, not seek to emulate them, or force others to emulate them.

The problem is you are not swapping dirt for cars. If it was you wouldn't be going into massive amounts of debt to pay for the cars. So much for swapping cars for dirt Cheesy

LOL

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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47365 At my desk.	Re: symbols for innovation are not the real thing Reply #2 - May 6^th, 2020 at 10:01pm That's what people are complaining about. We give them dirt. They give us cars. And people complain that we don't turn the dirt into cars ourselves, as if 14 hours a day on a factory floor earning a pittance is some birthright the Chinese stole from us.
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Bobby.

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Re: symbols for innovation are not the real thing
Reply #3 - May 6^th, 2020 at 11:00pm

No Freediver,
it's not the way you portray it at all.
Go to Germany and see scientists and engineers
inventing new products using computer aided design -
making top quality items in factories -
employing people in good jobs -
working 8 hour days not 14 hours.
See Germany exporting their products to an eagerly awaiting world -
even China uses their robots and technology in their industries.
Lots of it is computer controlled with software and firmware written in Germany.

Compare it to what we're doing - mining
and getting involved in housing ponzi schemes.

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Sir lastnail

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Re: symbols for innovation are not the real thing
Reply #4 - May 6^th, 2020 at 11:05pm

freediver wrote on May 6^th, 2020 at 10:01pm:

That's what people are complaining about. We give them dirt. They give us cars. And people complain that we don't turn the dirt into cars ourselves, as if 14 hours a day on a factory floor earning a pittance is some birthright the Chinese stole from us.

It is not a one-to-one exchange. Somehow you mistakenly believe that the finished good is less valuable than the raw materials use to make it and the debt that you used to pay for it is creating wealth for the country Cheesy

LOL

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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47365 At my desk.	Re: symbols for innovation are not the real thing Reply #5 - May 7^th, 2020 at 7:49am Bobby, plenty of engineers are using CAD to invent new products right here in Australia. It's one of the more mundane parts of the job. Nail, we cannot run the entire world economy from inside our borders. But we are in a position to pick and choose the more lucrative and interesting parts of it.
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Jasin

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Re: symbols for innovation are not the real thing
Reply #6 - May 7^th, 2020 at 9:07am

Many South American 'Workers' OWN the Companies they work within with still Wages much lower than the Managers and CEO's THEY EMPLOY.
What this does is keep the workers 'employed'.
Sunrice Aust is 'almost' like that with the Farmers owning the power, not the Management. I worked there once, the Farmers keep the bastards honest.

As for 'innovation', I know from experience that Australia only supports innovation only as far as having to sell out the innovations to overseas, not manufacturing etc. Australian Innovation only goes as far as the 10 steps out of 30 steps needed to fulfill its full potential.

China buys up 80% of Trade Marks to shove them away for the 4 year legal duration of 'non-use', so only their 'products' are made and produced. After 4 years, most innovations become 'dated' and surpassed.

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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Yadda

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Re: symbols for innovation are not the real thing
Reply #7 - May 7^th, 2020 at 9:10am

On a more basic level, the miner extracts iron ore from a mine.

And then he engages in trade, with a metal worker/blacksmith, for the iron ore.

In his furnace, the metal worker/blacksmith uses [his] specialised skills, to extract the iron [metal] from that ore.

Later he will fashion, things from the iron, into a plough tongue, a hammer, and knives and perhaps swords.

I'm talking about a society of men, maybe 1,000 years ago.

Of the two, the miner and metal worker/blacksmith, who had the higher level of skills ?

And who would have been more valued within his community ?

The laborer/miner ?

Or the metal worker/blacksmith ?

I would argue, that now, in 2020 not a lot has changed.

Among a group of persons [or nations], it is those with the higher skill levels which will always be viewed, within a society, as being more valued, as being more beneficial to the group.

The ability to innovate ? Or the possession of useful skills ?

Aren't those two, more or less the same thing ?

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: symbols for innovation are not the real thing
Reply #8 - May 7^th, 2020 at 9:24am

freediver wrote on May 6^th, 2020 at 12:43pm:

I think money talks, BS walks.

Swapping dirt for cars sounds like a good idea to me.

FD,

Usually when a person goes into a showroom, to buy a shiny new car, he has to exchange money for it, if he buys it.

Not dirt.

But sure, if someone wants to buy some dirt off of you [today], for money, that is convenient to you.

But just 'look around', there is an awful lot of 'dirt', spread over this earth.

And the person who is buying yours today, may choose to buy dirt off someone else tomorrow.

And he will still be making those shiny new cars.

And you could still be holding your bucket of dirt.

Resources can be valuable.

But 'skill sets' can be more valuable, ultimately.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 43612 Gender:	Re: symbols for innovation are not the real thing Reply #9 - May 7^th, 2020 at 9:32am Wow, I agree with Yadda! Dirt always runs out, skills need not. Except we are going to run out of both.
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Bobby.

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Re: symbols for innovation are not the real thing
Reply #10 - May 7^th, 2020 at 9:36am

freediver wrote on May 7^th, 2020 at 7:49am:

Bobby, plenty of engineers are using CAD to invent new products right here in Australia. It's one of the more mundane parts of the job.

Nail, we cannot run the entire world economy from inside our borders. But we are in a position to pick and choose the more lucrative and interesting parts of it.

FD,
I know a German engineer who does just that in Australia.
Unfortunately there just aren't enough of them.

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Yadda Gold Member Offline Posts: 20956 A cat with a view	Re: symbols for innovation are not the real thing Reply #11 - May 7^th, 2020 at 9:51am Jovial Monk wrote on May 7^th, 2020 at 9:32am: Wow, I agree with Yadda! Get over it. It isn't contagious.
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freediver

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Re: symbols for innovation are not the real thing
Reply #12 - May 7^th, 2020 at 11:32am

Bobby. wrote on May 7^th, 2020 at 9:36am:

freediver wrote on May 7^th, 2020 at 7:49am:

Bobby, plenty of engineers are using CAD to invent new products right here in Australia. It's one of the more mundane parts of the job.

Nail, we cannot run the entire world economy from inside our borders. But we are in a position to pick and choose the more lucrative and interesting parts of it.

FD,
I know a German engineer who does just that in Australia.
Unfortunately there just aren't enough of them.

There isn't 'enough' of any type of person in Australia, hence the high wages.

Quote:

But just 'look around', there is an awful lot of 'dirt', spread over this earth.

And the person who is buying yours today, may choose to buy dirt off someone else tomorrow.

The countries that make cars have completely changed over the last few decades, and will completely change again. But we have been making a packet from mining since the first gold rush, and will continue to do so into the future.

Why is everyone so jealous of the modern basket weaver?

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Bobby.

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Re: symbols for innovation are not the real thing
Reply #13 - May 7^th, 2020 at 11:40am

freediver wrote on May 7^th, 2020 at 11:32am:

Bobby. wrote on May 7^th, 2020 at 9:36am:

freediver wrote on May 7^th, 2020 at 7:49am:

Bobby, plenty of engineers are using CAD to invent new products right here in Australia. It's one of the more mundane parts of the job.

Nail, we cannot run the entire world economy from inside our borders. But we are in a position to pick and choose the more lucrative and interesting parts of it.

FD,
I know a German engineer who does just that in Australia.
Unfortunately there just aren't enough of them.

There isn't 'enough' of any type of person in Australia, hence the high wages.

He is in one of the few business ventures that innovates and sells
custom designed products all over the world.
It is an Australian success story and stands as a beacon
of guiding light to all the property developers,
real estate agents, and other useless lying parasites
who are wrecking our country and have put us into
debt for the next 100 years.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47365 At my desk.	Re: symbols for innovation are not the real thing Reply #14 - May 7^th, 2020 at 11:54am Property development and estate agency are the types of jobs we cannot farm out to cheap foreign labour. Car manufacturing is. No matter how advanced we get, you are still going to have an Australian offering you fries with that. But they will be paid more than foreigners doing the same job.
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