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theoretically impossible for Muslims to be wrong (Read 5692 times)
freediver
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Re: theoretically impossible for Muslims to be wrong
Reply #30 - Jan 29th, 2020 at 8:08am
 
Gandalf does it bother you that "hey look over there!" doesn't work after claiming you are infallible?
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polite_gandalf
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Re: theoretically impossible for Muslims to be wrong
Reply #31 - Jan 29th, 2020 at 1:51pm
 
freediver wrote on Jan 29th, 2020 at 8:08am:
Gandalf does it bother you that "hey look over there!" doesn't work after claiming you are infallible?


Does it bother you that from expressing the obvious point that you should caveat any claim that you think might be wrong - by actually making clear that you could be wrong - you inexplicably get "gandalf thinks he is infallible"?

Does it bother you that this entire thread is one big "hey look over there" to distract from the fact that you were trying to claim that something you said is both 'true' and possibly wrong at the same time?
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: theoretically impossible for Muslims to be wrong
Reply #32 - Jan 29th, 2020 at 7:14pm
 
You are confused Gandalf. I never said I think it is wrong.

Quote:
Does it bother you that this entire thread


You are confused Gandalf. People don't start new threads to distract from the topic. They do what you are doing here: desperately try to change it in the dedicated thread.

Is this the correct hierarchy of fallibility Gandalf:

1) God
2) Gandalf, infallible on all topics unless he caveats what he says by acknowledging the theoretical possibility he is wrong.
3) Muhammad, infallible only on matters of Islamic doctrine.
4) Everyone else, who ought to refrain from saying anything just in case Gandalf gets confused about the philosophical implications of mere mortals saying things without first deluding themselves that they are infallible.

?

Do you place yourself above Muhammad?
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Re: theoretically impossible for Muslims to be wrong
Reply #33 - Jan 29th, 2020 at 8:51pm
 
freediver wrote on Jan 29th, 2020 at 7:14pm:
You are confused Gandalf. I never said I think it is wrong.


And I never claimed that you did. What I did claim you said is exactly what you said in the quote I posted in reply# 12.

freediver wrote on Jan 29th, 2020 at 7:14pm:
You are confused Gandalf. People don't start new threads to distract from the topic.


They do when they don't even mention the topic, and dishonestly pretend that its about something else.

Here I'll remind you what the actual topic is again - your idiotic claim that all muslims support genocide and your idiotic mental gymnastics to claim that its somehow both 'true' and 'theoretically wrong' at the same time.

Funny you don't actually mention what I was referring to when you cherry picked my quote in the OP.

Funny how you've never responded to this when I've pointed out to you repeatedly in this thread. And I'm the one doing 'hey look over there', apparently.

freediver wrote on Jan 29th, 2020 at 7:14pm:
Is this the correct hierarchy of fallibility Gandalf:

1) God
2) Gandalf, infallible on all topics unless he caveats what he says by acknowledging the theoretical possibility he is wrong.
3) Muhammad, infallible only on matters of Islamic doctrine.
4) Everyone else, who ought to refrain from saying anything just in case Gandalf gets confused about the philosophical implications of mere mortals saying things without first deluding themselves that they are infallible.

?

Do you place yourself above Muhammad?


I am not infalible FD, I never claimed I was. That was your idiotic projection that had nothing to do with what I actually said. And what I said is just plain common sense - don't state something as fact that you acknowledge might not be fact. And if you do want to state it, you need to caveat it with your acknowledgement that it might not be fact. And if I was to state something as fact, I would only do it if I was sure it was actually fact. But unlike you, I don't go around throwing statements of fact around willy nilly.  Are you keeping up FD? Please let me know if you are still having trouble with this concept.

Do you stand by your claim (again, quoted in reply# 12) that the claim "all muslims support genocide" is "true"? And if so, can you explain how you can also acknowledge "It is theoretically possible that I am wrong" at the same time?

Think carefully about this one FD. You wouldn't want to be seen to be dodging the question again now would you?
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Bobby.
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Re: theoretically impossible for Muslims to be wrong
Reply #34 - Jan 29th, 2020 at 8:52pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Jan 28th, 2020 at 11:18pm:
You haven't discussed this with many Catholics, have you, Bobby?  Roll Eyes

Australian Catholics are perhaps more independent than most Catholics.  Few would accept that the Pope was supposedly infallible.




Wrong Brian,
just by being a Catholic you automatically accept that the Pope is infallible.

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freediver
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Re: theoretically impossible for Muslims to be wrong
Reply #35 - Jan 29th, 2020 at 9:36pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 29th, 2020 at 8:51pm:
freediver wrote on Jan 29th, 2020 at 7:14pm:
You are confused Gandalf. People don't start new threads to distract from the topic.


They do when they don't even mention the topic, and dishonestly pretend that its about something else.


The topic is you claim of infallibility. It's in the thread title. Do you think I failed to mention it? Or are you confused about what thread this is?

Quote:
I am not infalible FD, I never claimed I was. That was your idiotic projection that had nothing to do with what I actually said.


Here it is again:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 27th, 2020 at 12:19pm:
freediver wrote on Jan 26th, 2020 at 1:29pm:
So when you say that you acknowledge the theoretical possibility that you are wrong, this only applies to those statements you issue with a caveat that there is a theoretical possibility that you are wrong?


umm.. yes FD. How could it be anything else?

Again, you are not having difficulty with this. It simply isn't possible.


Quote:
And what I said is just plain common sense - don't state something as fact that you acknowledge might not be fact.


It is one of the stupider things you have posted, because it leads to the inevitable conclusion, which you eventually came to, that you have to have delusions of infallibility in order to say something. Either you think you are infallible, or you acknowledge the theoretical possibility you might be wrong. You, uniquely (well, almost), chose to claim infallibility. It is particularly odd coming from a Muslim, as you are effectively placing yourself above Muhammad, and equal to him on issues of interpretation of Islamic doctrine.
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« Last Edit: Jan 29th, 2020 at 9:44pm by freediver »  

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polite_gandalf
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Re: theoretically impossible for Muslims to be wrong
Reply #36 - Jan 29th, 2020 at 10:37pm
 
freediver wrote on Jan 29th, 2020 at 9:36pm:
it leads to the inevitable conclusion, which you eventually came to, that you have to have delusions of infallibility in order to say something.


Brilliant. Following that logic, me saying perfectly legitimately "Its possible that all muslims support genocide" - is having delusions of infallibility. Contrast this, if you can, with what you said.

You on the other hand, are the only one here with delusions of infalibility when you state as fact that all muslims do support genocide, follow up by stating categorically that it is "true", and spend about 2 years and counting insisting that there is nothing wrong with making such a statement (even as you simultaneously acknowledge that you could be wrong).
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Brian Ross
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Re: theoretically impossible for Muslims to be wrong
Reply #37 - Jan 29th, 2020 at 10:57pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Jan 29th, 2020 at 8:52pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jan 28th, 2020 at 11:18pm:
You haven't discussed this with many Catholics, have you, Bobby?  Roll Eyes

Australian Catholics are perhaps more independent than most Catholics.  Few would accept that the Pope was supposedly infallible.


Wrong Brian,
just by being a Catholic you automatically accept that the Pope is infallible.


And how many Catholics have you discussed this with, Bobby?  Roll Eyes

As a lapsed Catholic I know what Catholics actually believe, rather than what you think they believe.  Tsk, tsk.  Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: theoretically impossible for Muslims to be wrong
Reply #38 - Jan 30th, 2020 at 2:28am
 
Why do Muslims have that certain odour.
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freediver
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Re: theoretically impossible for Muslims to be wrong
Reply #39 - Feb 1st, 2020 at 9:05am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 29th, 2020 at 10:37pm:
freediver wrote on Jan 29th, 2020 at 9:36pm:
it leads to the inevitable conclusion, which you eventually came to, that you have to have delusions of infallibility in order to say something.


Brilliant. Following that logic, me saying perfectly legitimately "Its possible that all muslims support genocide" - is having delusions of infallibility. Contrast this, if you can, with what you said.

You on the other hand, are the only one here with delusions of infalibility when you state as fact that all muslims do support genocide, follow up by stating categorically that it is "true", and spend about 2 years and counting insisting that there is nothing wrong with making such a statement (even as you simultaneously acknowledge that you could be wrong).


That's what you said Gandalf. Not what I said. Would you like to have another go at answering the question?

So when you say that you acknowledge the theoretical possibility that you are wrong, this only applies to those statements you issue with a caveat that there is a theoretical possibility that you are wrong?
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John Smith
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Re: theoretically impossible for Muslims to be wrong
Reply #40 - Feb 1st, 2020 at 11:45am
 
Johnnie wrote on Jan 30th, 2020 at 2:28am:
Why do Muslims have that certain odour.



your nose is to close to their arse?
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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
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Re: theoretically impossible for Muslims to be wrong
Reply #41 - Feb 2nd, 2020 at 1:35pm
 
3.110. You [true believers in Islamic Monotheism, and real followers of Prophet Muhammad  and his Sunnah (legal ways, etc.)] are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind; you enjoin Al-Ma'ruf (i.e. Islamic Monotheism and all that Islam has ordained) and forbid Al-Munkar (polytheism, disbelief and all that Islam has forbidden), and you believe in Allah. And had the people of the Scripture (Jews and
Christians) believed, it would have been better for them; among them are some who have faith, but most of them are Al-Fasiqun (disobedient to Allah - and rebellious against Allah's Command).

Old allah certainly has got some queer ideas when it comes to good and bad people.

Lying, thieving Child sex, rape, torture and mass slaughter all perfectly O.K., disbelief in allah, well just chop their heads off.
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Re: theoretically impossible for Muslims to be wrong
Reply #42 - Feb 2nd, 2020 at 4:01pm
 
freediver wrote on Feb 1st, 2020 at 9:05am:
Would you like to have another go at answering the question?

So when you say that you acknowledge the theoretical possibility that you are wrong, this only applies to those statements you issue with a caveat that there is a theoretical possibility that you are wrong?


You didn't understand me the first time?

Its quite a challenge to dumb it down any further FD, it really is.

Statements of fact - yes, which unlike you I am not in the habit of throwing around so liberally. I would never state something as fact if I even had the slightest suspicion might be wrong. I would 'caveat' it with things like "I suspect..." or "it would seem.." I do this all the time, in case you didn't notice. You act as if I am as bad as you at making idiotic statements of fact all the time, uncaveated - which if true, then you could indeed accuse me of feeling infallible with justification. But I don't. The irony here of course is that you are the one acting infallbible by stubbornly insisting the statement of fact is "true" - even while you simulatenously try and fob us off by claiming it might be "theoretically wrong" (presumably adding the 'theoretically' dilutes the 'wrongness' in your mind)

If you state state something, like, oh I don't know, "All muslims support genocide" - without any qualifiers, or 'caveats' - not in the actual statement, nor even in the "argument" you presented in your opening post on the topic, that is by default taking the position that there is no possibility you are wrong. How could it be anything else? If you don't say anything else, then how are we supposed to tell that you are open to the possibility that it is wrong? Surely you would agree that you can make gramatically identical statements that you wouldn't acknowledge could be wrong - like say, "I drive a car" or "Athens is a city in Greece". So pray tell me, how are we supposed to understand that when you say "All muslims support genocide" its not really a statement of fact like the gramatically identical "Athens is a city in Greece" would be - unless you qualified the statement in some way?

So yes, obviously you need to issue a caveat to anything you state as fact if you don't actually know its a statement of fact. That fits under the category of the bleeding bloody obvious.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: theoretically impossible for Muslims to be wrong
Reply #43 - Feb 2nd, 2020 at 4:09pm
 
A family of Moslems are mourning the death of their 3 moslem kids and a cousin who were run over by a drunk Aussie Terrorist.

The Moslem Father said
"This is just all wrong!"
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Re: theoretically impossible for Muslims to be wrong
Reply #44 - Feb 2nd, 2020 at 5:43pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 2nd, 2020 at 4:01pm:
freediver wrote on Feb 1st, 2020 at 9:05am:
Would you like to have another go at answering the question?

So when you say that you acknowledge the theoretical possibility that you are wrong, this only applies to those statements you issue with a caveat that there is a theoretical possibility that you are wrong?


You didn't understand me the first time?

Its quite a challenge to dumb it down any further FD, it really is.

Statements of fact - yes, which unlike you I am not in the habit of throwing around so liberally. I would never state something as fact if I even had the slightest suspicion might be wrong. I would 'caveat' it with things like "I suspect..." or "it would seem.." I do this all the time, in case you didn't notice. You act as if I am as bad as you at making idiotic statements of fact all the time, uncaveated - which if true, then you could indeed accuse me of feeling infallible with justification. But I don't. The irony here of course is that you are the one acting infallbible by stubbornly insisting the statement of fact is "true" - even while you simulatenously try and fob us off by claiming it might be "theoretically wrong" (presumably adding the 'theoretically' dilutes the 'wrongness' in your mind)

If you state state something, like, oh I don't know, "All muslims support genocide" - without any qualifiers, or 'caveats' - not in the actual statement, nor even in the "argument" you presented in your opening post on the topic, that is by default taking the position that there is no possibility you are wrong. How could it be anything else? If you don't say anything else, then how are we supposed to tell that you are open to the possibility that it is wrong? Surely you would agree that you can make gramatically identical statements that you wouldn't acknowledge could be wrong - like say, "I drive a car" or "Athens is a city in Greece". So pray tell me, how are we supposed to understand that when you say "All muslims support genocide" its not really a statement of fact like the gramatically identical "Athens is a city in Greece" would be - unless you qualified the statement in some way?

So yes, obviously you need to issue a caveat to anything you state as fact if you don't actually know its a statement of fact. That fits under the category of the bleeding bloody obvious.


So now you are back to claiming infallibility, except when you caveat what you say.
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