Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 
Send Topic Print
The Fact-Finding Cashless Welfare Card Trial (Read 1886 times)
whiteknight
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 7593
melbourne
Gender: male
The Fact-Finding Cashless Welfare Card Trial
Jan 23rd, 2020 at 4:23am
 
Jacqui Lambie finalises 'fact-finding mission' into cashless debit card in trial regions

ABC News
Jan 22 2020


The fate of Australia's controversial welfare experiment — the cashless debit card — could rest with Tasmanian senator Jacqui Lambie and her whirlwind outback tour.
Key points:

    The cashless debit card is designed to curb drug and alcohol abuse by limiting access to cash through quarantined welfare payments
    The card is currently being trialled in WA's East Kimberley and Goldfields, Ceduna in SA, and Bundaberg and Hervey Bay in Qld
    Senators are expected to vote next month to include the NT and Cape York in the trial, and whether to extend current trials

Senator Lambie today finished her visits to cashless debit card trial sites in Western Australia, on what she has called a "fact-finding mission" into the card's success.

With Labor turning against the welfare scheme, Senator Lambie's opinion will be crucial as the Senate is expected to vote on the trial's extension next month.

A legislation amendment would extend the current trial sites until July 2021 and expand to include welfare recipients in the Northern Territory and Cape York.

The cashless welfare card operates in WA's East Kimberley and Goldfields, Ceduna in SA, and recently began in Bundaberg and Hervey Bay in Queensland.

Senator Lambie said she had seen "good results" at the trial sites but told the ABC she would not reveal how she would vote.

    "I want to vote for it, I want to see this continue, but they [the coalition] have to deliver what they promised," she said.

The "promise" refers to the Government's guarantee that support services will be provided in the trial locations including drug and alcohol rehabilitation, mental health services, and financial counselling services.

With her trademark bluntness, Senator Lambie said she was drafting a list of conditions her vote will depend on, including the delivery of these services.
Could banks soon control welfare?

Opponents of the card, who met with Senator Lambie in Kalgoorlie this week, told her the card was failing them.   Sad

    "We wanted her to know we're normal, real people just trying to pay bills and this system isn't working," cardholder Sylvia Asusaar said.

She said the group was "flabbergasted" when Senator Lambie told them the cashless card would "soon" be managed by the big four banks.

Single mother Sylvia Asusaar relies on Centrelink payments to care for her son, who has an intellectual disability.

The Department of Social Services (DSS) confirmed Minister Anne Ruston met with banks to discuss the cashless debit card but refused to say if banks would replace Indue — the current operator of the card.

Senator Lambie also visited the Goldfields town of Laverton, where she held a meeting with about 30 people.

Shire president Patrick Hill told the senator he wanted the card to stay because the town had previously struggled with alcohol, drug, and gambling issues.

"Since the card came in, the crime rate has dropped, kids are going to school, and it's had a positive impact on the whole community," he said.

However Laverton police have previously warned against directly attributing any reduction in crime to the card.   Sad


Where's the research?

Nearly two years since the Goldfields trial started, evidence of the card's success or lack thereof remains anecdotal because an independent review is yet to be seen.

After a botched attempt to assess the first trial sites, the University of Adelaide was hired to evaluate the East Kimberley, Ceduna, and Goldfields trials.

DSS said in March that findings were "expected to be finalised in late 2019".

But when asked today if the research would be available before parliament resumes, a department spokesperson said findings would be released "in the coming months".

In a speech to parliament last year Kalgoorlie MP Rick Wilson said the trial should be extended because "the anecdotal evidence is overwhelmingly positive".

Trials of the Federal Government's cashless welfare card have proven controversial with one charity warning they lead to "social stigmatisation".

While Senator Lambie said she did not need to see the research to determine her position, Labor has withdrawn its support for a trial extension due to the lack of evidence.

Labor also wants the scheme to be made voluntary, leaving the coalition reliant on support from either crossbencher Senator Lambie or the Centre alliance.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
whiteknight
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 7593
melbourne
Gender: male
Re: The Fact-Finding Cashless Welfare Card Trial
Reply #1 - Jan 23rd, 2020 at 4:25am
 
Opponents of the card, who met with Senator Lambie in Kalgoorlie this week, told her the card was failing them. 

    "We wanted her to know we're normal, real people just trying to pay bills and this system isn't working," cardholder Sylvia Asusaar said.   Sad
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Valkie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 16088
Central Coast
Gender: male
Re: The Fact-Finding Cashless Welfare Card Trial
Reply #2 - Jan 23rd, 2020 at 4:32am
 
Welfare is a privilege,  not a right.

You are spending other people's money.
Money that has been worked for by taxpayers.
It isn't YOUR Money, it's an allowance to help you through troubled times.
If you want your own money.....get a job.

Disabled are given a living allowance.
It's not meant to make you rich, just to help you live.
It's been abused for far too long.
Every muzzo coming to Australia goes for the disability pension for him and his tent, and often gets it.

We, the taxpayer, have a right to see our taxes spent wisely
Not wasted on deadbeats and the terminally lazy.
Bring on the cashless welfare card........all over Australia......NOW
Back to top
 

I HAVE A DREAM
A WONDERFUL, PEACEFUL, BEAUTIFUL DREAM.
A DREAM OF A WORLD THAT HAS NEVER KNOWN ISLAM
A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM.

SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM
O HOW I WISH IT WERE TRU
 
IP Logged
 
whiteknight
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 7593
melbourne
Gender: male
Re: The Fact-Finding Cashless Welfare Card Trial
Reply #3 - Jan 23rd, 2020 at 4:40am
 
Unemployment can happen to anyone at anytime.  Those that are working today, could be the ones that are unemployed tomorrow.  Making it harder for the unemployed all the time is not right. The cashless welfare card should be voluntary.   Sad
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
philperth2010
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 19597
Perth
Gender: male
Re: The Fact-Finding Cashless Welfare Card Trial
Reply #4 - Jan 23rd, 2020 at 7:17am
 
Anyone with half a brain would expect to see evidence of how the scheme is working before making an uninformed decision based on nothing more than instinct and personal beliefs....Politicians should start listening expert advice and base their decisions on the evidence that taxpayers have paid for and the public can trust....If you are not going to listen to the experts who were engaged to evaluate the scheme then why waste money when you have already determined the outcome....Lambie is too stupid and self serving to determine anything without cocking it up!!!

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
Back to top
 

If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
Isaac Asimov (1920 - 1992)
 
IP Logged
 
Bam
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 21905
Gender: male
Re: The Fact-Finding Cashless Welfare Card Trial
Reply #5 - Jan 23rd, 2020 at 9:02am
 
The big four banks were exposed as a bunch of corrupt crooks in the Banking Royal Commission - which the Libs enacted very reluctantly. And the banks' punishment? They're going to be handed control of billions of dollars of taxpayers' funds for no reason other than to oppress vulnerable people and grind them down. This government is planning to reward the criminal banks. Just business as usual for the Coalition of Corruption.

The Libs and Nats are making sure their own pockets are getting very well lined out of this. Of all the corruption scandals in Australia, the cashless debit card "trial" is the biggest. (And why does the Sarina Russo the employment services company keep getting its contracts renewed despite poor performance? Is it because Sarina Russo herself donates generously to the Coalition?)

Class warfare is at the shooting stage in Australia. Why won't the media speak to the victims of this war to find out what's really going on?
Back to top
 

You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.
 
IP Logged
 
Bam
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 21905
Gender: male
Re: The Fact-Finding Cashless Welfare Card Trial
Reply #6 - Jan 23rd, 2020 at 9:13am
 
Valkie wrote on Jan 23rd, 2020 at 4:32am:
Welfare is a privilege,  not a right.

Is that why the politicians get very fat pensions? Why the Coalition of Corruption fight tooth and nail to keep lining the pockets of the greedy with unfunded measures like franking credit refunds while starving the needy with petty penny-pinching? Why the average household on $200,000 a year receives about twice as much government money a year as the average single person on Nostart, with far less paperwork? Why fossil fuel companies receive about $40 billion a year in subsidies?

If you're going to be whining about "welfare", look at the huge amounts going to the RICH. There are HUGE savings to be had by cutting all this wealthfare and making the rich pay their fair share of tax by abolishing all regressive and flat taxes and making ALL taxes progressive.

There are a lot of people out there who are MUCH angrier than you at this inequity, and for very good reason. Privileged idiots don't even know this is going on and will remain ignorant until the killings start.
Back to top
 

You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.
 
IP Logged
 
Ayn Marx
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 2937
South of Australia
Gender: male
Re: The Fact-Finding Cashless Welfare Card Trial
Reply #7 - Jan 23rd, 2020 at 10:25am
 
Bam wrote on Jan 23rd, 2020 at 9:13am:
Valkie wrote on Jan 23rd, 2020 at 4:32am:
Welfare is a privilege,  not a right.

Is that why the politicians get very fat pensions?  . . . . . . . . . . . .snip>

There are a lot of people out there who are MUCH angrier than you at this inequity, and for very good reason. Privileged idiots don't even know this is going on and will remain ignorant until the killings start.

I doubt the killing will start over inequity but I suspect we will soon see violence on a vast international scale unleashed against climate change denying governments.
What have the young got to lose faced with global extinction on an unprecedented scale? So called democratic governments don’t appear to be listening in many parts of this planet.
Back to top
 

The Human Race is Insane
 
IP Logged
 
Sir Spot of Borg
Gold Member
*****
Offline


WE ARE BORG

Posts: 26458
Australia
Re: The Fact-Finding Cashless Welfare Card Trial
Reply #8 - Jan 23rd, 2020 at 10:45am
 
From what I'm reading labors mind is made up and she isn't listening to anyone

Spot
Back to top
 

Whaaaaaah!
I'm a 
Moron!
- edited by some unethical admin - you think its funny? - its a slippery slope
WWW PoliticsAneReligion  
IP Logged
 
Captain Nemo
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 8345
Melbourne
Gender: male
Re: The Fact-Finding Cashless Welfare Card Trial
Reply #9 - Jan 23rd, 2020 at 11:03am
 
On the results so far ...

Seems to be working pretty well:

Independent evaluation of the Cashless Debit Card trial in the Ceduna and East Kimberley regions
The Australian Government commissioned ORIMA Research to undertake a full, independent evaluation of the Cashless Debit Card trial in the Ceduna region, and in the East Kimberley region (Kununurra and Wyndham). The evaluation has reported in three stages:

the Cashless Debit Card trial evaluation – Initial Conditions Report;
the Cashless Debit Card trial evaluation – Wave 1 Interim Evaluation Report; and,
the Cashless Debit Card trial evaluation – Final Evaluation Report.
The Cashless Debit Card trial evaluation – Final Evaluation Report is now available and compares data gathered throughout the evaluation period (April 2016 – July 2017).

The evaluation used qualitative and quantitative research methods and the evaluation design was informed by feedback from:

respected academics and commentators with expertise in conducting research and evaluations involving Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples, as expert advisors to the Steering Committee;
leaders and representatives of Aboriginal corporations and community organisations in the Ceduna region and East Kimberley region; and
officers of Commonwealth and State Government agencies with on-the-ground experience in both sites.
The evaluation assessed harm reduction impacts of the Trial on individual and community functioning, focusing on social harm caused by alcohol consumption, drug use and gambling.

The final evaluation report was released on 1 September 2017.

The evaluation found that the Cashless Debit Card has had a “considerable positive impact” in the two trial communities of Ceduna and the East Kimberley.

It concluded that the Cashless Debit Card trial “has been effective in reducing alcohol consumption and gambling in both trial sites and [is] also suggestive of a reduction in the use of illegal drugs” and “that there is some evidence that there has been a consequential reduction in violence and harm related to alcohol consumption, illegal drug use and gambling”.

Key findings from the report include:

Alcohol – of participants who reported that they do drink alcohol, 41 per cent of participants reported drinking alcohol less frequently, while 37 per cent of participants reported binge drinking less frequently.

Gambling – of participants who reported they do gamble, 48 per cent of participants reported gambling less.

Drug use – of participants who reported using illegal drugs before the program commenced, 48 per cent reported using illegal drugs less often.


The evaluation also found “widespread spill-over benefits” from the card:

Of the trial participants surveyed, 40 per cent said they were better able to look after their children.

45 per cent of trial participants have been better able to save money

Feedback that there had been a decrease in requests for emergency food relief and financial assistance in Ceduna

Merchant reports of increased purchases of baby items, food, clothing, shoes, toys and other goods for children

Considerable observable evidence being cited by many community leaders and stakeholders of a reduction in crime, violence and harmful behaviours over the duration of the trial.



https://www.dss.gov.au/families-and-children-programs-services-welfare-quarantin...
Back to top
 

The 2025 election could be a shocker.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Ayn Marx
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 2937
South of Australia
Gender: male
Re: The Fact-Finding Cashless Welfare Card Trial
Reply #10 - Jan 23rd, 2020 at 11:27am
 
Captain Nemo wrote on Jan 23rd, 2020 at 11:03am:
Seems to be working pretty well:
Key findings from the report include:

Alcohol – of participants who reported that they do drink alcohol, 41 per cent of participants reported drinking alcohol less frequently, while 37 per cent of participants reported binge drinking less frequently.

Gambling – of participants who reported they do gamble, 48 per cent of participants reported gambling less.

Drug use – of participants who reported using illegal drugs before the program commenced, 48 per cent reported using illegal drugs less often.


These results may be genuine but i have some doubts about ‘Seems to be working’ and the actual meaning of ‘participants who reported’.
If the language used here is an accurate expression of how the results were obtained we need to ask are there any reasons participants could want or need to report their behavior in this manner.
Back to top
 

The Human Race is Insane
 
IP Logged
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 79545
Proud pre-1850's NO Voter
Gender: male
Re: The Fact-Finding Cashless Welfare Card Trial
Reply #11 - Jan 23rd, 2020 at 11:40am
 
whiteknight wrote on Jan 23rd, 2020 at 4:40am:
Unemployment can happen to anyone at anytime.  Those that are working today, could be the ones that are unemployed tomorrow.  Making it harder for the unemployed all the time is not right. The cashless welfare card should be voluntary.   Sad


Not if you're a politician or a running dog... always some nice little earner for life tucked away for you if you are suddenly booted by an irate electorate carrying blazing brands and pitch-forks.... plenty of money in the till to make up a new 'commission' or something, and offer you a plum job.

Why did we need an endangered species commissioner when we already have several government departments and many individuals involved?

Department of Environment etc, National Parks..... all deeply involved already - where is the need for anything more than a clerical administrator to report to the higher-ups and through them to the Minister?
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 79545
Proud pre-1850's NO Voter
Gender: male
Re: The Fact-Finding Cashless Welfare Card Trial
Reply #12 - Jan 23rd, 2020 at 11:43am
 
Ayn Marx wrote on Jan 23rd, 2020 at 11:27am:
Captain Nemo wrote on Jan 23rd, 2020 at 11:03am:
Seems to be working pretty well:
Key findings from the report include:

Alcohol – of participants who reported that they do drink alcohol, 41 per cent of participants reported drinking alcohol less frequently, while 37 per cent of participants reported binge drinking less frequently.

Gambling – of participants who reported they do gamble, 48 per cent of participants reported gambling less.

Drug use – of participants who reported using illegal drugs before the program commenced, 48 per cent reported using illegal drugs less often.


These results may be genuine but i have some doubts about ‘Seems to be working’ and the actual meaning of ‘participants who reported’.
If the language used here is an accurate expression of how the results were obtained we need to ask are there any reasons participants could want or need to report their behavior in this manner.



Downe At Ye Olde Thirde Degree:-

"Well, now, Boongaloonga - how is the cashless card helping control your drinking issues?"

"Ah, yeah, Boss - cuttin' it right back.. true story.  Big 'elp that card... got plenty of sugar an' raisins, and bitta yeast to make me own bread, y'know.  Eatin' better."


It should only be used in very specific cases - including the 'self-reporters' such as with gambling etc - but to just do it with the few who really need it would not be 'economical' - far easier to just apply the old shotgun approach, and include everyone in an area - that ensures more profit for the private contractor... guaranteed income...

I'll have to consider Lambie's position.. maybe have a word with her...
Back to top
« Last Edit: Jan 23rd, 2020 at 12:04pm by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »  

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
Bam
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 21905
Gender: male
Re: The Fact-Finding Cashless Welfare Card Trial
Reply #13 - Jan 23rd, 2020 at 12:08pm
 
Captain Nemo wrote on Jan 23rd, 2020 at 11:03am:
On the results so far ...

Seems to be working pretty well:

Independent evaluation of the Cashless Debit Card trial in the Ceduna and East Kimberley regions
The Australian Government commissioned ORIMA Research to undertake a full, independent evaluation of the Cashless Debit Card trial in the Ceduna region, and in the East Kimberley region (Kununurra and Wyndham). The evaluation has reported in three stages:

the Cashless Debit Card trial evaluation – Initial Conditions Report;
the Cashless Debit Card trial evaluation – Wave 1 Interim Evaluation Report; and,
the Cashless Debit Card trial evaluation – Final Evaluation Report.
The Cashless Debit Card trial evaluation – Final Evaluation Report is now available and compares data gathered throughout the evaluation period (April 2016 – July 2017).

The evaluation used qualitative and quantitative research methods and the evaluation design was informed by feedback from:

respected academics and commentators with expertise in conducting research and evaluations involving Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples, as expert advisors to the Steering Committee;
leaders and representatives of Aboriginal corporations and community organisations in the Ceduna region and East Kimberley region; and
officers of Commonwealth and State Government agencies with on-the-ground experience in both sites.
The evaluation assessed harm reduction impacts of the Trial on individual and community functioning, focusing on social harm caused by alcohol consumption, drug use and gambling.

The final evaluation report was released on 1 September 2017.

The evaluation found that the Cashless Debit Card has had a “considerable positive impact” in the two trial communities of Ceduna and the East Kimberley.

It concluded that the Cashless Debit Card trial “has been effective in reducing alcohol consumption and gambling in both trial sites and [is] also suggestive of a reduction in the use of illegal drugs” and “that there is some evidence that there has been a consequential reduction in violence and harm related to alcohol consumption, illegal drug use and gambling”.

Key findings from the report include:

Alcohol – of participants who reported that they do drink alcohol, 41 per cent of participants reported drinking alcohol less frequently, while 37 per cent of participants reported binge drinking less frequently.

Gambling – of participants who reported they do gamble, 48 per cent of participants reported gambling less.

Drug use – of participants who reported using illegal drugs before the program commenced, 48 per cent reported using illegal drugs less often.


The evaluation also found “widespread spill-over benefits” from the card:

Of the trial participants surveyed, 40 per cent said they were better able to look after their children.

45 per cent of trial participants have been better able to save money

Feedback that there had been a decrease in requests for emergency food relief and financial assistance in Ceduna

Merchant reports of increased purchases of baby items, food, clothing, shoes, toys and other goods for children

Considerable observable evidence being cited by many community leaders and stakeholders of a reduction in crime, violence and harmful behaviours over the duration of the trial.



https://www.dss.gov.au/families-and-children-programs-services-welfare-quarantin...

Is this the same source that abused the crap out of statistical methodologies to draw conclusions from a sample of eight people?
Back to top
 

You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.
 
IP Logged
 
Bam
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 21905
Gender: male
Re: The Fact-Finding Cashless Welfare Card Trial
Reply #14 - Jan 23rd, 2020 at 12:13pm
 
Ayn Marx wrote on Jan 23rd, 2020 at 11:27am:
Captain Nemo wrote on Jan 23rd, 2020 at 11:03am:
Seems to be working pretty well:
Key findings from the report include:

Alcohol – of participants who reported that they do drink alcohol, 41 per cent of participants reported drinking alcohol less frequently, while 37 per cent of participants reported binge drinking less frequently.

Gambling – of participants who reported they do gamble, 48 per cent of participants reported gambling less.

Drug use – of participants who reported using illegal drugs before the program commenced, 48 per cent reported using illegal drugs less often.


These results may be genuine but i have some doubts about ‘Seems to be working’ and the actual meaning of ‘participants who reported’.
If the language used here is an accurate expression of how the results were obtained we need to ask are there any reasons participants could want or need to report their behavior in this manner.

Correct. There was one very dubious survey - it may even have been this one - where "participants who reported" was found to be eight people out of a sample of over 2,000 and they were drawing conclusions from that. Oh, and there was a survey - again, it may have been this one - that was NOT done anonymously and had "inducements".

This whole "trial" has been a stitch up from the beginning. It needs to be subjected to the investigative blowtorch of a Royal Commission.
Back to top
 

You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.
 
IP Logged
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 79545
Proud pre-1850's NO Voter
Gender: male
Re: The Fact-Finding Cashless Welfare Card Trial
Reply #15 - Jan 23rd, 2020 at 12:20pm
 
Bam wrote on Jan 23rd, 2020 at 12:13pm:
Ayn Marx wrote on Jan 23rd, 2020 at 11:27am:
Captain Nemo wrote on Jan 23rd, 2020 at 11:03am:
Seems to be working pretty well:
Key findings from the report include:

Alcohol – of participants who reported that they do drink alcohol, 41 per cent of participants reported drinking alcohol less frequently, while 37 per cent of participants reported binge drinking less frequently.

Gambling – of participants who reported they do gamble, 48 per cent of participants reported gambling less.

Drug use – of participants who reported using illegal drugs before the program commenced, 48 per cent reported using illegal drugs less often.


These results may be genuine but i have some doubts about ‘Seems to be working’ and the actual meaning of ‘participants who reported’.
If the language used here is an accurate expression of how the results were obtained we need to ask are there any reasons participants could want or need to report their behavior in this manner.

Correct. There was one very dubious survey - it may even have been this one - where "participants who reported" was found to be eight people out of a sample of over 2,000 and they were drawing conclusions from that. Oh, and there was a survey - again, it may have been this one - that was NOT done anonymously and had "inducements".

This whole "trial" has been a stitch up from the beginning. It needs to be subjected to the investigative blowtorch of a Royal Commission.



National Corruption Commission?
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
Bam
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 21905
Gender: male
Re: The Fact-Finding Cashless Welfare Card Trial
Reply #16 - Jan 23rd, 2020 at 12:32pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 23rd, 2020 at 12:20pm:
Bam wrote on Jan 23rd, 2020 at 12:13pm:
Ayn Marx wrote on Jan 23rd, 2020 at 11:27am:
Captain Nemo wrote on Jan 23rd, 2020 at 11:03am:
Seems to be working pretty well:
Key findings from the report include:

Alcohol – of participants who reported that they do drink alcohol, 41 per cent of participants reported drinking alcohol less frequently, while 37 per cent of participants reported binge drinking less frequently.

Gambling – of participants who reported they do gamble, 48 per cent of participants reported gambling less.

Drug use – of participants who reported using illegal drugs before the program commenced, 48 per cent reported using illegal drugs less often.


These results may be genuine but i have some doubts about ‘Seems to be working’ and the actual meaning of ‘participants who reported’.
If the language used here is an accurate expression of how the results were obtained we need to ask are there any reasons participants could want or need to report their behavior in this manner.

Correct. There was one very dubious survey - it may even have been this one - where "participants who reported" was found to be eight people out of a sample of over 2,000 and they were drawing conclusions from that. Oh, and there was a survey - again, it may have been this one - that was NOT done anonymously and had "inducements".

This whole "trial" has been a stitch up from the beginning. It needs to be subjected to the investigative blowtorch of a Royal Commission.

National Corruption Commission?

A separate Royal Commission would be needed into the card trials. There may not be actual corruption as such, at least not evident straight away, so a dedicated Royal Commission may be needed to uncover any wrongdoing. For example, despite opt-out being in force now for these trials for over six months, not one single person has been able to exit the trial because Centrelink have not processing any. That's not corruption, so may fall outside the jurisdiction of any Federal anti-corruption commission, but it would definitely fall under the aegis of a Royal Commission with properly-constituted terms of reference.
Back to top
 

You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.
 
IP Logged
 
Sir Spot of Borg
Gold Member
*****
Offline


WE ARE BORG

Posts: 26458
Australia
Re: The Fact-Finding Cashless Welfare Card Trial
Reply #17 - Jan 23rd, 2020 at 1:16pm
 
Captain Nemo wrote on Jan 23rd, 2020 at 11:03am:
On the results so far ...

Seems to be working pretty well:

Independent evaluation of the Cashless Debit Card trial in the Ceduna and East Kimberley regions
The Australian Government commissioned ORIMA Research to undertake a full, independent evaluation of the Cashless Debit Card trial in the Ceduna region, and in the East Kimberley region (Kununurra and Wyndham). The evaluation has reported in three stages:

the Cashless Debit Card trial evaluation – Initial Conditions Report;
the Cashless Debit Card trial evaluation – Wave 1 Interim Evaluation Report; and,
the Cashless Debit Card trial evaluation – Final Evaluation Report.
The Cashless Debit Card trial evaluation – Final Evaluation Report is now available and compares data gathered throughout the evaluation period (April 2016 – July 2017).

The evaluation used qualitative and quantitative research methods and the evaluation design was informed by feedback from:

respected academics and commentators with expertise in conducting research and evaluations involving Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples, as expert advisors to the Steering Committee;
leaders and representatives of Aboriginal corporations and community organisations in the Ceduna region and East Kimberley region; and
officers of Commonwealth and State Government agencies with on-the-ground experience in both sites.
The evaluation assessed harm reduction impacts of the Trial on individual and community functioning, focusing on social harm caused by alcohol consumption, drug use and gambling.

The final evaluation report was released on 1 September 2017.

The evaluation found that the Cashless Debit Card has had a “considerable positive impact” in the two trial communities of Ceduna and the East Kimberley.

It concluded that the Cashless Debit Card trial “has been effective in reducing alcohol consumption and gambling in both trial sites and [is] also suggestive of a reduction in the use of illegal drugs” and “that there is some evidence that there has been a consequential reduction in violence and harm related to alcohol consumption, illegal drug use and gambling”.

Key findings from the report include:

Alcohol – of participants who reported that they do drink alcohol, 41 per cent of participants reported drinking alcohol less frequently, while 37 per cent of participants reported binge drinking less frequently.

Gambling – of participants who reported they do gamble, 48 per cent of participants reported gambling less.

Drug use – of participants who reported using illegal drugs before the program commenced, 48 per cent reported using illegal drugs less often.


The evaluation also found “widespread spill-over benefits” from the card:

Of the trial participants surveyed, 40 per cent said they were better able to look after their children.

45 per cent of trial participants have been better able to save money

Feedback that there had been a decrease in requests for emergency food relief and financial assistance in Ceduna

Merchant reports of increased purchases of baby items, food, clothing, shoes, toys and other goods for children

Considerable observable evidence being cited by many community leaders and stakeholders of a reduction in crime, violence and harmful behaviours over the duration of the trial.



https://www.dss.gov.au/families-and-children-programs-services-welfare-quarantin...


And you don't think that's fudged? Druggies would use less drugs. If they were on a payment it wouldn't be used for drugs (bot enough).

Spot
Back to top
 

Whaaaaaah!
I'm a 
Moron!
- edited by some unethical admin - you think its funny? - its a slippery slope
WWW PoliticsAneReligion  
IP Logged
 
Bobby.
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 94112
Melbourne
Gender: male
Re: The Fact-Finding Cashless Welfare Card Trial
Reply #18 - Jan 23rd, 2020 at 1:38pm
 
I wanna create a place of my
own in the welfare state.


Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
lee
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 16343
Gender: male
Re: The Fact-Finding Cashless Welfare Card Trial
Reply #19 - Jan 23rd, 2020 at 1:48pm
 
Ayn Marx wrote on Jan 23rd, 2020 at 10:25am:
What have the young got to lose faced with global extinction on an unprecedented scale?



Which global extinctions would that be? Not the modeled study where they assumed the number of species they didn't know and factored them in? The Sixth Mass Extinction Event that isn't. Wink
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
PZ547
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 9282
Gender: male
Re: The Fact-Finding Cashless Welfare Card Trial
Reply #20 - Jan 23rd, 2020 at 1:52pm
 
Bam wrote on Jan 23rd, 2020 at 9:02am:
The big four banks were exposed as a bunch of corrupt crooks in the Banking Royal Commission - which the Libs enacted very reluctantly. And the banks' punishment? They're going to be handed control of billions of dollars of taxpayers' funds for no reason other than to oppress vulnerable people and grind them down. This government is planning to reward the criminal banks. Just business as usual for the Coalition of Corruption.

The Libs and Nats are making sure their own pockets are getting very well lined out of this. Of all the corruption scandals in Australia, the cashless debit card "trial" is the biggest. (And why does the Sarina Russo the employment services company keep getting its contracts renewed despite poor performance? Is it because Sarina Russo herself donates generously to the Coalition?)

Class warfare is at the shooting stage in Australia. Why won't the media speak to the victims of this war to find out what's really going on?



reading some good posts

and this is one of them

Smiley
Back to top
 

All my comments, posts & opinions are to be regarded as satire & humour
 
IP Logged
 
PZ547
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 9282
Gender: male
Re: The Fact-Finding Cashless Welfare Card Trial
Reply #21 - Jan 23rd, 2020 at 2:00pm
 
Bam wrote on Jan 23rd, 2020 at 9:13am:
Valkie wrote on Jan 23rd, 2020 at 4:32am:
Welfare is a privilege,  not a right.

Is that why the politicians get very fat pensions? Why the Coalition of Corruption fight tooth and nail to keep lining the pockets of the greedy with unfunded measures like franking credit refunds while starving the needy with petty penny-pinching? Why the average household on $200,000 a year receives about twice as much government money a year as the average single person on Nostart, with far less paperwork? Why fossil fuel companies receive about $40 billion a year in subsidies?

If you're going to be whining about "welfare", look at the huge amounts going to the RICH. There are HUGE savings to be had by cutting all this wealthfare and making the rich pay their fair share of tax by abolishing all regressive and flat taxes and making ALL taxes progressive.

There are a lot of people out there who are MUCH angrier than you at this inequity, and for very good reason. Privileged idiots don't even know this is going on and will remain ignorant until the killings start.



Good for you  Smiley
Back to top
 

All my comments, posts & opinions are to be regarded as satire & humour
 
IP Logged
 
Captain Nemo
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 8345
Melbourne
Gender: male
Re: The Fact-Finding Cashless Welfare Card Trial
Reply #22 - Jan 23rd, 2020 at 2:18pm
 
If ...

Binge drinking MORE frequently.

Gambling MORE.

Using illegal drugs MORE often.


LESS able to look after their children.

LESS able to save money

INCREASE in requests for emergency food relief and financial assistance in Ceduna.

Merchant reports of DECREASED purchases of baby items, food, clothing, shoes, toys and other goods for children.





Then, I would say the trial seemed not to be working.  Wink
Back to top
 

The 2025 election could be a shocker.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
PZ547
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 9282
Gender: male
Re: The Fact-Finding Cashless Welfare Card Trial
Reply #23 - Jan 23rd, 2020 at 2:58pm
 
A case of whom to believe, don't you suspect, Nemo?

Back to top
 

All my comments, posts & opinions are to be regarded as satire & humour
 
IP Logged
 
Bam
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 21905
Gender: male
Re: The Fact-Finding Cashless Welfare Card Trial
Reply #24 - Jan 23rd, 2020 at 3:15pm
 
Captain Nemo wrote on Jan 23rd, 2020 at 2:18pm:
If ...

Binge drinking MORE frequently.

Gambling MORE.

Using illegal drugs MORE often.


LESS able to look after their children.

LESS able to save money

INCREASE in requests for emergency food relief and financial assistance in Ceduna.

Merchant reports of DECREASED purchases of baby items, food, clothing, shoes, toys and other goods for children.





Then, I would say the trial seemed not to be working.  Wink

Property crime is up. Domestic violence is up. Black market activity is through the roof. Still think it's a good idea? What if you lose your job? It can happen, don't deny it. Would you want to be forced to live on $500 a week for six months and then forced onto this? It could be YOU. Do you want it for yourself? Or are you one of the oppressors?

Back to top
 

You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.
 
IP Logged
 
Sir Spot of Borg
Gold Member
*****
Offline


WE ARE BORG

Posts: 26458
Australia
Re: The Fact-Finding Cashless Welfare Card Trial
Reply #25 - Jan 23rd, 2020 at 3:31pm
 
Bam wrote on Jan 23rd, 2020 at 3:15pm:
Captain Nemo wrote on Jan 23rd, 2020 at 2:18pm:
If ...

Binge drinking MORE frequently.

Gambling MORE.

Using illegal drugs MORE often.


LESS able to look after their children.

LESS able to save money

INCREASE in requests for emergency food relief and financial assistance in Ceduna.

Merchant reports of DECREASED purchases of baby items, food, clothing, shoes, toys and other goods for children.





Then, I would say the trial seemed not to be working.  Wink

Property crime is up. Domestic violence is up. Black market activity is through the roof. Still think it's a good idea? What if you lose your job? It can happen, don't deny it. Would you want to be forced to live on $500 a week for six months and then forced onto this? It could be YOU. Do you want it for yourself? Or are you one of the oppressors?



$500 a week? More like 500 a month

Spot
Back to top
 

Whaaaaaah!
I'm a 
Moron!
- edited by some unethical admin - you think its funny? - its a slippery slope
WWW PoliticsAneReligion  
IP Logged
 
Captain Nemo
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 8345
Melbourne
Gender: male
Re: The Fact-Finding Cashless Welfare Card Trial
Reply #26 - Jan 23rd, 2020 at 3:59pm
 
Bam wrote on Jan 23rd, 2020 at 3:15pm:
Captain Nemo wrote on Jan 23rd, 2020 at 2:18pm:
If ...

Binge drinking MORE frequently.

Gambling MORE.

Using illegal drugs MORE often.


LESS able to look after their children.

LESS able to save money

INCREASE in requests for emergency food relief and financial assistance in Ceduna.

Merchant reports of DECREASED purchases of baby items, food, clothing, shoes, toys and other goods for children.





Then, I would say the trial seemed not to be working.  Wink

Property crime is up. Domestic violence is up. Black market activity is through the roof. Still think it's a good idea? What if you lose your job? It can happen, don't deny it. Would you want to be forced to live on $500 a week for six months and then forced onto this? It could be YOU. Do you want it for yourself? Or are you one of the oppressors?




Property crime is up.
Domestic violence is up.
Black market activity is through the roof.




In the areas where the welfare cashless card is being trialed?

Really?

Link?
Back to top
 

The 2025 election could be a shocker.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 79545
Proud pre-1850's NO Voter
Gender: male
Re: The Fact-Finding Cashless Welfare Card Trial
Reply #27 - Jan 23rd, 2020 at 4:09pm
 
PZ547 wrote on Jan 23rd, 2020 at 2:58pm:
A case of whom to believe, don't you suspect, Nemo?



Well - without substantial evidence to the positive - it would seem the real effects of a cashless card are not apparent.....
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
John Smith
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 71950
Gender: male
Re: The Fact-Finding Cashless Welfare Card Trial
Reply #28 - Jan 23rd, 2020 at 6:49pm
 
Bam wrote on Jan 23rd, 2020 at 12:13pm:
Correct. There was one very dubious survey - it may even have been this one - where "participants who reported" was found to be eight people out of a sample of over 2,000 and they were drawing conclusions from that. Oh, and there was a survey - again, it may have been this one - that was NOT done anonymously and had "inducements".

This whole "trial" has been a stitch up from the beginning. It needs to be subjected to the investigative blowtorch of a Royal Commission.



I recently ceased (I hope) being subjected to an ABS survey ..was told I had no choice in the matter. Once a month for the last 6 months, they sent me a survey that i had to fill out, including names, d.o.b, occupation, income and all sorts of other private info. I listed the flinstones family as names, and made up everything else. Fuqed if I'm giving anyone my private details, especially some anonymous dope on the net telling me i had no choice. Even more so if it's the govt..

Back to top
 

Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
IP Logged
 
Bam
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 21905
Gender: male
Re: The Fact-Finding Cashless Welfare Card Trial
Reply #29 - Jan 23rd, 2020 at 8:02pm
 
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jan 23rd, 2020 at 3:31pm:
Bam wrote on Jan 23rd, 2020 at 3:15pm:
Captain Nemo wrote on Jan 23rd, 2020 at 2:18pm:
If ...

Binge drinking MORE frequently.

Gambling MORE.

Using illegal drugs MORE often.


LESS able to look after their children.

LESS able to save money

INCREASE in requests for emergency food relief and financial assistance in Ceduna.

Merchant reports of DECREASED purchases of baby items, food, clothing, shoes, toys and other goods for children.





Then, I would say the trial seemed not to be working.  Wink

Property crime is up. Domestic violence is up. Black market activity is through the roof. Still think it's a good idea? What if you lose your job? It can happen, don't deny it. Would you want to be forced to live on $500 a week for six months and then forced onto this? It could be YOU. Do you want it for yourself? Or are you one of the oppressors?



$500 a week? More like 500 a month

Spot

I'm referring here to the liquid asset waiting period, one of many excuses that currently exist in law to deny people access to income support.

Anyone who's got a few tens of thousands of dollars in the bank (or in shares) is forced to use that before being eligible for unemployment benefits. The Coalition is pushing through legislation to increase the waiting time to six months. Every extra $500 gives an extra week of waiting period, therefore people who lose their job are expected to live on $500 a week. That amount has not been increased this century.
Back to top
 

You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.
 
IP Logged
 
Bam
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 21905
Gender: male
Re: The Fact-Finding Cashless Welfare Card Trial
Reply #30 - Jan 23rd, 2020 at 8:19pm
 
Captain Nemo wrote on Jan 23rd, 2020 at 3:59pm:
Property crime is up.
Domestic violence is up.
Black market activity is through the roof.

In the areas where the welfare cashless card is being trialed?

Really?

Link?

Yes. Really. (You would already know this if you did your own research.)

Cashless welfare card backfires with increase in crime, according to Aboriginal Health Council of WA
Quote:
THE cashless welfare card championed by mining billionaire Andrew “Twiggy” Forrest” has done nothing to reduce methamphetamine use and instead backfired by leading to a crime surge, prostitution and rorting, WA’s leading Aboriginal health group warns.

Aboriginal Health Council of WA chairwoman Michelle Nelson-Cox said no drop in meth use had been seen in the East Kimberley, one of two sites in Australia where the Turnbull Government has been trialling the initiative for the past year. She also said the card was still being used as a currency for drugs.

“What we have seen since that policy was implemented in that particular region is an increase around elder abuse and trade-off with other alternatives — for example, taxi drivers are trading the cards for cash exchange,” Ms Nelson-Cox told a Federal inquiry into the meth epidemic.

“We have also seen a rapid increase in crime and prostitution.”


Crime rates climb in Kununurra after cashless welfare card introduced
Quote:
Rates of theft, property crime, threatening behaviour and non-aggravated robbery have increased in Kununurra since the Federal Government’s cashless welfare card was rolled out in the East Kimberley.

WA Police figures provided to State Parliament show 277 theft offences in the North-West town in the year to May, up from 195 in the year leading up to the card’s introduction in April last year. The number of property offences rose to 965, up from 805, while there were 59 more incidents of threatening behaviour and seven more cases of non-aggravated robbery.


Indue and the small matter of political corruption
Quote:
The many problems of the Indue card

There are many problems with the cashless welfare card. Senate inquiries from 2015, 2017 and 2018, have all shown that in the trial regions, there has been no change in crime rates (in some areas such as Kununnura and Wyndham, there was actually an increase in crime statistics, as well as an increase in self-harm and suicide).


Family violence rates rise in Kimberley towns with cashless welfare
Quote:
Domestic violence has increased significantly in the East Kimberley since the introduction of the cashless welfare card, casting doubt on the government’s claims of its success.

Police data obtained under freedom of information law shows domestic-related assaults and police-attended domestic violence reports increased in the Kimberley communities of Wyndham and Kununurra since trials began in April 2016.


Domestic violence survivor could not have escaped abuse on cashless debit card
Quote:
A domestic violence survivor who is part of the cashless debit card trial says she would not have been able to escape her abusive marriage under the income management scheme.

Speaking at a symposium on the cashless debit card at Melbourne University on Thursday, Jocelyn Wighton, from Ceduna, South Australia said without access to her entire disability pension in cash she would not have been able to afford to start a new life.


This kind of information is quite easy to find outside the Murdoch press. I suggest you read more widely.
Back to top
 

You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.
 
IP Logged
 
Captain Nemo
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 8345
Melbourne
Gender: male
Re: The Fact-Finding Cashless Welfare Card Trial
Reply #31 - Jan 23rd, 2020 at 9:43pm
 
Fair enough, I wasn't aware of those issues.

So, cashless cards are not the answer ... I wonder what would work?  Huh
Back to top
 

The 2025 election could be a shocker.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Bam
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 21905
Gender: male
Re: The Fact-Finding Cashless Welfare Card Trial
Reply #32 - Jan 24th, 2020 at 10:19am
 
Captain Nemo wrote on Jan 23rd, 2020 at 9:43pm:
Fair enough, I wasn't aware of those issues.

So, cashless cards are not the answer ... I wonder what would work?  Huh

What would work is positive policy based on hope and freedom, not the negative policy of despair and oppression.

What would work is making sure everyone who wants a job can get one. That is the hope. Abolish all compulsory restrictions on how anyone spends their money and the many other restrictions imposed on unemployed and underemployed workers. That is the freedom.

* Abolish all compulsory cashless cards.
* Renounce the falsehoods of pretending that 5% unemployment is "full employment" or that it is a "natural" level. If people cannot find work, that is not "full employment". It is not "natural" if it is manipulated artificially. These lies must be called out.
* Abolish involuntary unemployment.
* Instruct the RBA to rebase its policy settings around maintaining unemployment below 2%. 1.5% should be the target setting.
* Increase compulsory superannuation to 12%.
* The RBA would gain a new mechanism to control inflation, a surcharge on the Superannuation Guarantee rate. It can raise or lower this as required, with the proceeds coming out of workers' pay. It would work more equitably than interest rates because interest rates only affect the spending of people with interest-bearing debts but a superannuation surcharge would affect all workers. Workers get the money taken from them back in retirement instead of handing it over permanently in interest charges.
* Redirect funding from pointless vocational courses towards ones where employers actually need more workers.
* Introduce an employer-funded co-contribution towards vocational and university education.
* Abolish unpaid overtime. 90% of the workforce doing 100% of the work includes up to 10% of that work being coerced from workers for free. That practice must be abolished so more jobs can be created for workers who want them.
* Introduce a Job Guarantee.
* Abolish the privatised job services networks.
* Reinstate the Commonwealth Employment Service as the Commonwealth Employment Commission (CEC). Its mandate would be similar to the old CES, but with the additional task of managing the Job Guarantee.
* All employers advertising vacancies would be required by law to advertise them with the CEC, Seek, or another similar recruitment board. Advertising with the CEC would be free of charge.
* Make it easier to relocate interstate for employment opportunities by providing a $5000 relocation grant for all workers.
* Cut stamp duty on property transfers in all states to 0.2% of the property value with a minimum charge of $500. Property stamp duty is a significant barrier to employment because it's a huge tax on moving house.
* Replace the property stamp duty revenue with a broad-based land tax. Farmland would be exempt but not the farmhouse.
* Abolish payroll taxes in all states and territories. It's a tax on jobs that varies among the states and this makes it complex and costly to administer.
* Replace the payroll taxes with a single national tax on company turnover that raises a similar level of revenue, with the proceeds distributed to the states on a strict per capita basis. Companies would receive savings through lower tax compliance costs.

It should be obvious from this list that addressing poverty and inequity requires a broad sweeping policy agenda that includes industrial relations reforms, taxation reforms, superannuation reforms, changes to the Reserve Bank, the agreement of the states and territories and other broad changes. Such reforms are needed to clean out a lot of policy deadwood that has accumulated over the past 50 years or so, primarily driven by a neoliberal agenda. It's obvious that neoliberalism is not working, and it has to go.
Back to top
 

You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.
 
IP Logged
 
Captain Nemo
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 8345
Melbourne
Gender: male
Re: The Fact-Finding Cashless Welfare Card Trial
Reply #33 - Jan 24th, 2020 at 10:40am
 
Ah!

Nirvana then.  Smiley

Where can I go to find that place?
Back to top
 

The 2025 election could be a shocker.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Bam
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 21905
Gender: male
Re: The Fact-Finding Cashless Welfare Card Trial
Reply #34 - Jan 24th, 2020 at 11:12am
 
Captain Nemo wrote on Jan 24th, 2020 at 10:40am:
Ah!

Nirvana then.  Smiley

Where can I go to find that place?

Since you can't get a time machine back to the 1960's, you should start by voting the Coalition OUT at the next election by putting them last on all ballots. They're the parties of oppression and despair, so punish them accordingly. Who you vote for is up to you, just put the Coalition last.

I notice you've not offered any actual criticism. I take it you're accepting all points raised?
Back to top
 

You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.
 
IP Logged
 
Captain Nemo
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 8345
Melbourne
Gender: male
Re: The Fact-Finding Cashless Welfare Card Trial
Reply #35 - Jan 24th, 2020 at 11:14am
 
They were good points.

Congratulations.  Cool
Back to top
 

The 2025 election could be a shocker.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 79545
Proud pre-1850's NO Voter
Gender: male
Re: The Fact-Finding Cashless Welfare Card Trial
Reply #36 - Jan 24th, 2020 at 1:36pm
 
Captain Nemo wrote on Jan 23rd, 2020 at 9:43pm:
Fair enough, I wasn't aware of those issues.

So, cashless cards are not the answer ... I wonder what would work?  Huh



Jobs for all who want or need them.....
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
Bam
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 21905
Gender: male
Re: The Fact-Finding Cashless Welfare Card Trial
Reply #37 - Jan 24th, 2020 at 2:30pm
 
If anyone wants to know what kinds of jobs can be done for a Job Guarantee, take a look at the recent bushfires for examples.

* Fire rangers - These rangers would mostly be Indigenous people working on their country, planning and supervising any planned burns that may be necessary.
* Wood cutters - These workers would remove fallen wood from forests that would burn in a bushfire. Some of this wood can be on-sold in Australia. Other wood can be exported to African countries where the people use local firewood, and donated so the people there do not need to cut down their own wood to burn. The cost of this export program can be funded from the foreign aid budget (assuming it is feasible).
Back to top
 

You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.
 
IP Logged
 
Setanta
Gold Member
*****
Offline


\/ Peace man!

Posts: 15851
Northern NSW
Gender: male
Re: The Fact-Finding Cashless Welfare Card Trial
Reply #38 - Jan 24th, 2020 at 2:38pm
 
Bam wrote on Jan 24th, 2020 at 2:30pm:
If anyone wants to know what kinds of jobs can be done for a Job Guarantee, take a look at the recent bushfires for examples.

* Fire rangers - These rangers would mostly be Indigenous people working on their country, planning and supervising any planned burns that may be necessary.
* Wood cutters - These workers would remove fallen wood from forests that would burn in a bushfire. Some of this wood can be on-sold in Australia. Other wood can be exported to African countries where the people use local firewood, and donated so the people there do not need to cut down their own wood to burn. The cost of this export program can be funded from the foreign aid budget (assuming it is feasible).


Dead trees and fallen trees are home to native animals. Some need these to breed in.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
PZ547
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 9282
Gender: male
Re: The Fact-Finding Cashless Welfare Card Trial
Reply #39 - Jan 24th, 2020 at 2:48pm
 
Bam wrote on Jan 24th, 2020 at 10:19am:
Captain Nemo wrote on Jan 23rd, 2020 at 9:43pm:
Fair enough, I wasn't aware of those issues.

So, cashless cards are not the answer ... I wonder what would work?  Huh

What would work is positive policy based on hope and freedom, not the negative policy of despair and oppression.

What would work is making sure everyone who wants a job can get one. That is the hope. Abolish all compulsory restrictions on how anyone spends their money and the many other restrictions imposed on unemployed and underemployed workers. That is the freedom.

* Abolish all compulsory cashless cards.
* Renounce the falsehoods of pretending that 5% unemployment is "full employment" or that it is a "natural" level. If people cannot find work, that is not "full employment". It is not "natural" if it is manipulated artificially. These lies must be called out.
* Abolish involuntary unemployment.
* Instruct the RBA to rebase its policy settings around maintaining unemployment below 2%. 1.5% should be the target setting.
* Increase compulsory superannuation to 12%.
* The RBA would gain a new mechanism to control inflation, a surcharge on the Superannuation Guarantee rate. It can raise or lower this as required, with the proceeds coming out of workers' pay. It would work more equitably than interest rates because interest rates only affect the spending of people with interest-bearing debts but a superannuation surcharge would affect all workers. Workers get the money taken from them back in retirement instead of handing it over permanently in interest charges.
* Redirect funding from pointless vocational courses towards ones where employers actually need more workers.
* Introduce an employer-funded co-contribution towards vocational and university education.
* Abolish unpaid overtime. 90% of the workforce doing 100% of the work includes up to 10% of that work being coerced from workers for free. That practice must be abolished so more jobs can be created for workers who want them.
* Introduce a Job Guarantee.
* Abolish the privatised job services networks.
* Reinstate the Commonwealth Employment Service as the Commonwealth Employment Commission (CEC). Its mandate would be similar to the old CES, but with the additional task of managing the Job Guarantee.
* All employers advertising vacancies would be required by law to advertise them with the CEC, Seek, or another similar recruitment board. Advertising with the CEC would be free of charge.
* Make it easier to relocate interstate for employment opportunities by providing a $5000 relocation grant for all workers.
* Cut stamp duty on property transfers in all states to 0.2% of the property value with a minimum charge of $500. Property stamp duty is a significant barrier to employment because it's a huge tax on moving house.
* Replace the property stamp duty revenue with a broad-based land tax. Farmland would be exempt but not the farmhouse.
* Abolish payroll taxes in all states and territories. It's a tax on jobs that varies among the states and this makes it complex and costly to administer.
* Replace the payroll taxes with a single national tax on company turnover that raises a similar level of revenue, with the proceeds distributed to the states on a strict per capita basis. Companies would receive savings through lower tax compliance costs.

It should be obvious from this list that addressing poverty and inequity requires a broad sweeping policy agenda that includes industrial relations reforms, taxation reforms, superannuation reforms, changes to the Reserve Bank, the agreement of the states and territories and other broad changes. Such reforms are needed to clean out a lot of policy deadwood that has accumulated over the past 50 years or so, primarily driven by a neoliberal agenda. It's obvious that neoliberalism is not working, and it has to go.




so many good points here


well done Smiley
Back to top
 

All my comments, posts & opinions are to be regarded as satire & humour
 
IP Logged
 
PZ547
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 9282
Gender: male
Re: The Fact-Finding Cashless Welfare Card Trial
Reply #40 - Jan 24th, 2020 at 2:48pm
 
Setanta wrote on Jan 24th, 2020 at 2:38pm:
Bam wrote on Jan 24th, 2020 at 2:30pm:
If anyone wants to know what kinds of jobs can be done for a Job Guarantee, take a look at the recent bushfires for examples.

* Fire rangers - These rangers would mostly be Indigenous people working on their country, planning and supervising any planned burns that may be necessary.
* Wood cutters - These workers would remove fallen wood from forests that would burn in a bushfire. Some of this wood can be on-sold in Australia. Other wood can be exported to African countries where the people use local firewood, and donated so the people there do not need to cut down their own wood to burn. The cost of this export program can be funded from the foreign aid budget (assuming it is feasible).


Dead trees and fallen trees are home to native animals. Some need these to breed in.



Point !
Back to top
 

All my comments, posts & opinions are to be regarded as satire & humour
 
IP Logged
 
Bam
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 21905
Gender: male
Re: The Fact-Finding Cashless Welfare Card Trial
Reply #41 - Jan 24th, 2020 at 4:23pm
 
Setanta wrote on Jan 24th, 2020 at 2:38pm:
Bam wrote on Jan 24th, 2020 at 2:30pm:
If anyone wants to know what kinds of jobs can be done for a Job Guarantee, take a look at the recent bushfires for examples.

* Fire rangers - These rangers would mostly be Indigenous people working on their country, planning and supervising any planned burns that may be necessary.
* Wood cutters - These workers would remove fallen wood from forests that would burn in a bushfire. Some of this wood can be on-sold in Australia. Other wood can be exported to African countries where the people use local firewood, and donated so the people there do not need to cut down their own wood to burn. The cost of this export program can be funded from the foreign aid budget (assuming it is feasible).


Dead trees and fallen trees are home to native animals. Some need these to breed in.

That's why they would need to be removed by trained workers, or have someone supervising who can choose the correct wood to take. It would also be a hell of a lot more sensitive to the environment than clear felling.
Back to top
 

You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.
 
IP Logged
 
Bam
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 21905
Gender: male
Re: The Fact-Finding Cashless Welfare Card Trial
Reply #42 - Jan 24th, 2020 at 4:44pm
 
More on the dysfunctional and detrimental CDC.
Back to top
 

indue-effects.jpg (77 KB | 5 )
indue-effects.jpg

You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 
Send Topic Print