Australian Politics Forum - The $50 Billion French Submarine Deal

Brian Ross

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Re: The $50 Billion French Submarine Deal
Reply #30 - Jan 17^th, 2020 at 11:58am

Bobby. wrote on Jan 16^th, 2020 at 8:47pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 16^th, 2020 at 7:48pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 16^th, 2020 at 5:05pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 16^th, 2020 at 4:03pm:

Jasin wrote on Jan 16^th, 2020 at 3:42pm:

Ships have hunted Subs over long distances for weeks.
So unless these Diesels have better staying power.
Then its just Whaling Season.

When? Where? Please be specific with a case of a "ships have hunted Subs over long distances for weeks."

ASW is much harder than most novels/movies would have you believe. Look at the ASW efforts of the Royal Navy duing the Falklands/Malvinas war in 1982. The RN was supposedly the most experience at ASW in the world and it failed dismally to find and sink any Argentine submarines. Roll Eyes

They can't even get crews for all the 6 Collins subs.
No one wants to go in their iron coffins.

No, the crew issue is completely separate and revolves around the mining boom. They never intended to crew, except in emergency all six COLLINS class. Improve their conditions and allow more leave and more crew would be willing to serve. Roll Eyes

What about the Collins sub that sunk out of control and was nearly lost with all the crew? It was a miracle that they got back alive.

A minor problem.

Quote:

3 sailors from that crew left the Navy with PTSD after that.
It's a dangerous job even in peacetime -
that's why they can't find crews.
[quote]

Yet they do.

[quote]
In a real war I doubt that any crew would come back alive.
I think 70% of the German U boat sailors died in WW2.

WWII was a real war, Bobby. Roll Eyes

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Captain Nemo Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8449 Melbourne Gender:	Re: The $50 Billion French Submarine Deal Reply #31 - Jan 18^th, 2020 at 1:01pm The Sub deal was an appalling waste of money. It was done to save one minister's job, who subsequently (pardon the pun) left parliament anyway.
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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 95440 Melbourne Gender:	Re: The $50 Billion French Submarine Deal Reply #32 - Jan 18^th, 2020 at 2:17pm Brian, Quote: A minor problem. really - a sub sinking out of control - is a minor is problem? Brian, Quote: WWII was a real war, Bobby. How many of our subs would survive a real war?
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Brian Ross Moderator Offline Representative of me Posts: 39572	Re: The $50 Billion French Submarine Deal Reply #33 - Jan 18^th, 2020 at 2:42pm Bobby. wrote on Jan 18^th, 2020 at 2:17pm: Brian, Quote: A minor problem. really - a sub sinking out of control - is a minor is problem? Yes. Quote: Brian, Quote: WWII was a real war, Bobby. How many of our subs would survive a real war? Unknown. How good are our enemies at ASW?
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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 95440 Melbourne Gender:	Re: The $50 Billion French Submarine Deal Reply #34 - Jan 18^th, 2020 at 2:45pm Brian , if it was a minor problem then why did 3 sailors get PTSD ?
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Brian Ross Moderator Offline Representative of me Posts: 39572	Re: The $50 Billion French Submarine Deal Reply #35 - Jan 18^th, 2020 at 5:21pm Bobby. wrote on Jan 18^th, 2020 at 2:45pm: Brian , if it was a minor problem then why did 3 sailors get PTSD ? Ask them. Bobby. PTSD is a raft of problems which have a nice set of initials.
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Bobby.

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Re: The $50 Billion French Submarine Deal
Reply #36 - Jan 18^th, 2020 at 5:26pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 18^th, 2020 at 5:21pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 18^th, 2020 at 2:45pm:

Brian ,
if it was a minor problem then why
did 3 sailors get PTSD ?

Ask them. Bobby. PTSD is a raft of problems which have a nice set of initials.

dear Brian,
this is where you lose your credibility -
facts don't persuade you.
Those guys were in a state of terror for many long hours -
that's what caused their PTSD.
How would you cope with sinking uncontrollably in a submarine?

We don't have many details.
Did cracks open up -
did water start gushing in?

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 72257 Gender:	Re: The $50 Billion French Submarine Deal Reply #37 - Jan 18^th, 2020 at 6:09pm Bobby. wrote on Jan 18^th, 2020 at 2:45pm: did 3 sailors get PTSD ? why do thousands of people get PTSD per year without having ever set foot in or near a sub? Most aren't even in the navy
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Brian Ross

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Re: The $50 Billion French Submarine Deal
Reply #38 - Jan 18^th, 2020 at 7:39pm

Bobby. wrote on Jan 18^th, 2020 at 5:26pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 18^th, 2020 at 5:21pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 18^th, 2020 at 2:45pm:

Brian ,
if it was a minor problem then why
did 3 sailors get PTSD ?

Ask them. Bobby. PTSD is a raft of problems which have a nice set of initials.

dear Brian,
this is where you lose your credibility -
facts don't persuade you.
Those guys were in a state of terror for many long hours -
that's what caused their PTSD.
How would you cope with sinking uncontrollably in a submarine?

We don't have many details.
Did cracks open up -
did water start gushing in?

Provide some evidence that it occurred at all, Bobby.... Roll Eyes

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Bobby.

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Re: The $50 Billion French Submarine Deal
Reply #39 - Jan 19^th, 2020 at 11:22am

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 18^th, 2020 at 7:39pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 18^th, 2020 at 5:26pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 18^th, 2020 at 5:21pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 18^th, 2020 at 2:45pm:

Brian ,
if it was a minor problem then why
did 3 sailors get PTSD ?

Ask them. Bobby. PTSD is a raft of problems which have a nice set of initials.

dear Brian,
this is where you lose your credibility -
facts don't persuade you.
Those guys were in a state of terror for many long hours -
that's what caused their PTSD.
How would you cope with sinking uncontrollably in a submarine?

We don't have many details.
Did cracks open up -
did water start gushing in?

Provide some evidence that it occurred at all, Bobby.... Roll Eyes

Are you being disingenuous?

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Brian Ross

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Re: The $50 Billion French Submarine Deal
Reply #40 - Jan 19^th, 2020 at 4:52pm

Bobby. wrote on Jan 19^th, 2020 at 11:22am:

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 18^th, 2020 at 7:39pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 18^th, 2020 at 5:26pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 18^th, 2020 at 5:21pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 18^th, 2020 at 2:45pm:

Brian ,
if it was a minor problem then why
did 3 sailors get PTSD ?

Ask them. Bobby. PTSD is a raft of problems which have a nice set of initials.

dear Brian,
this is where you lose your credibility -
facts don't persuade you.
Those guys were in a state of terror for many long hours -
that's what caused their PTSD.
How would you cope with sinking uncontrollably in a submarine?

We don't have many details.
Did cracks open up -
did water start gushing in?

Provide some evidence that it occurred at all, Bobby.... Roll Eyes

Are you being disingenuous?

Are you lying? Bobby?

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Bobby.

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Re: The $50 Billion French Submarine Deal
Reply #41 - Jan 19^th, 2020 at 5:21pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 19^th, 2020 at 4:52pm:

Are you lying? Bobby?

so dear readers - Brian is not being disingenuous -
he knew nothing about this even though
he claims to be a military expert.

HMAS Farncomb (SSG 74) is the second of six Collins class submarines operated by the Royal Australian Navy (RAN).

Sailors feared worst as submarine HMAS Farncomb sank.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/defence/sailors-feared-worst-a...

By Exclusive Cameron Stewart
TheAustralian
1:00AM September 10, 2011

JUST after midnight off the coast of Perth, navy submarine HMAS Farncomb was slicing below the surface of a rough sea when its engines cut out.

For the 60 men and women aboard the Collins-class boat, the next few minutes would be among the longest of their lives. Like a Hollywood thriller, the sailors found themselves grappling with a double engine failure followed by a terrifying, powerless descent towards the bottom of the Indian Ocean, stemmed only by the cool actions of a veteran commander.

This real-life drama, which took place at 12.30am on August 23 about 20km off the northwest coast of Rottnest Island, was not revealed by Defence at the time. When quizzed by The Australian the following day, officials gave only a brief, sanitised version of the incident, omitting key facts while praising the competence and training of the crew for following "standard operating procedures".

Many of the Farncomb's crew are far from relaxed about what took place under the Indian Ocean that night.

"I said to myself, 'I'm gone, I'm dead',' one recalled thinking as the powerless submarine began to slide towards the ocean floor.

Another on the submarine has told friends: "When we started going down, I just tried to accept it and make peace with myself."

In their eyes, the Farncomb incident came uncomfortably close to being Australia's worst naval tragedy in almost 50 years. Defence denies this, claiming crew had "positive control of the submarine throughout the incident".

An investigation by The Weekend Australian reveals discrepancies between Defence's official account and first-hand accounts now circulating in Perth from the Farncomb's crew.

Commander Miles faced a full-blown emergency. He had lost both his engine and his emergency back-up.

Defence declined to tell The Weekend Australian how deep the Farncomb sank, saying only that such details were "not openly discussed".

According to several crew members' versions, the Farncomb slowed to a virtual halt, tilted nose up and began to slide backwards towards the ocean floor. The tilt was so steep that sailors eating in the mess room had to grab their dinners as they slid off the table. Those in the sleeping quarters found themselves "on top of each other".

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Brian Ross Moderator Offline Representative of me Posts: 39572	Re: The $50 Billion French Submarine Deal Reply #42 - Jan 21^st, 2020 at 1:22pm SIGH The Australia? Sorry, they've had in for the COLLINS class since they were conceived. That is what happens when you sack a large number of middle ranking naval officers who know a little but not a lot. FARNCOMBE wasn't in danger of sinking. QED.
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Bobby.

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Re: The $50 Billion French Submarine Deal
Reply #43 - Jan 21^st, 2020 at 2:23pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 21^st, 2020 at 1:22pm:

*SIGH* The Australia? Sorry, they've had in for the COLLINS class since they were conceived. That is what happens when you sack a large number of middle ranking naval officers who know a little but not a lot. Roll Eyes

FARNCOMBE wasn't in danger of sinking. QED.

Quote:

"I said to myself, 'I'm gone, I'm dead',' one recalled thinking as the powerless submarine began to slide towards the ocean floor.

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Jasin

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Re: The $50 Billion French Submarine Deal
Reply #44 - Jan 21^st, 2020 at 7:17pm

I know of a major Naval stuff up that could have cost many lives of its cadets.

Luckily the volunteer Marine Rescue saved them in hard seas and weather.

The Marine Rescue was 'ordered' to keep their mouths shut and not go to the Media (or alert the parents).

...and where were the Police in regards to this obvious 'crime'? Huh

Yeah right. Roll Eyes

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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