polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 19^th, 2019 at 8:19am:




RaRa Islam?

How Circumstance Dictates Islamic Behavior

January 18, 2012

Preach Peace When Weak, Wage War When Strong

"...all notions of peace with non-Muslims are based on circumstance.

When Muslims are weak, they should be peaceful; when strong, they should go on the offensive."

This is a state law which was apparently introduced in 2016.

Most states now have some penalty for this sort of thing.

Malaysia certainly has regressed in the last couple of decades or so.

Yes I was wrong if I ever held up Malaysia as some bastion of religious moderation.

Mea culpa.

This is a state law which was apparently introduced in 2016.

Most states now have some penalty for this sort of thing.

Malaysia certainly has regressed in the last couple of decades or so.

Yes I was wrong if I ever held up Malaysia as some bastion of religious moderation.

Mea culpa.

gandalf,

You are a moslem, a follower of ISLAM.

Q.
What could you possibly [authoritatively] know about 1/ ISLAM, about ISLAM's mores and laws, or 2/ about religious moderation ?

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 19^th, 2019 at 8:19am:


What about the other two - Indonesia and Turkey?

Malaysia certainly has regressed in the last couple of decades or so.

.

Malaysia is becoming less secular and MORE Islamic.

Why do you have a problem with this G?

Gordon wrote on Dec 20^th, 2019 at 12:59pm:



Because I am not the caricature you want me to be.

gandalf,

Allah is your god.
.....the Allah of the Koran.

Allah states, the holy and inerrant Koran states,     ...that 1/ every disbeliever is under a sentence of death, and 2/ that it is the religious obligation of every follower of ISLAM, to fight and to kill the disbelievers [before they have a chance, to die due to Allah's curses upon them].

Where is the 'space', within ISLAM, for religious moderation ?

2:6-7 allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment 

In their hearts is disease, so allah has increased their disease; and for them is a painful punishment because they [habitually] used to lie. 2:10

4.143 : (They are) distracted in mind even in the midst of it,- being (sincerely) for neither one group nor for another whom allah causes to go astray,- never wilt thou find for him the way.

5:41 O messenger, let them not grieve you who hasten into disbelief of those who say, "We believe" with their mouths, but their hearts believe not, and from among the Jews. [They are] avid listeners to falsehood, listening to another people who have not come to you. They distort words beyond their [proper] usages, saying "If you are given this, take it; but if you are not given it, then beware." But he for whom allah intends fitnah - never will you possess [power to do] for him a thing against Allah. Those are the ones for whom allah does not intend to purify their hearts. For them in this world is disgrace, and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment.

6.039 : Those who reject our signs are deaf and dumb,- in the midst of darkness profound: whom Allah willeth, He leaveth to wander: whom he willeth, He placeth on the way that is straight

6:125 So whoever allah wants to guide - he expands his breast to [contain] Islam; and whoever He wants to misguide - he makes his breast tight and constricted as though he were climbing into the sky. Thus does allah place defilement upon those who do not believe.

10.100 : No soul can believe,except by the will of allah, and he will place doubt (or obscurity) on those who will not understand

13.027 : The Unbelievers say: "Why is not a sign sent down to him from his lord?" Say: "Truly allah leaveth, to stray, whom he will; But he guideth to himself those who turn to him in penitence,

13:33-34 allah leads disbelievers astry while he torments them in this life. Then afterh they die, he makes them suffer even more pain in the doom of the Hereafter.

14.004 : We sent not a messenger except (to teach) in the language of his (own) people, in order to make (things) clear to them. Now allah leaves straying those whom he pleases and guides whom he pleases: and he is exalted in power, full of wisdom.

14:27 allah keeps firm those who believe, with the firm word, in worldly life and in the Hereafter. And allah sends astray the wrongdoers. And allah does what He wills.

17.046 : And we put coverings over their hearts (and minds) lest they should understand the qur'an, and deafness into their ears: when thou dost commemorate thy lord and him alone in the qur'an, they turn on their backs, fleeing (from the truth).

16.093 : If allah so willed, he could make you all one people: But he leaves straying whom he pleases, and he guides whom he pleases: but ye shall certainly be called to account for all your actions. 

17:97 And whoever allah guides - he is the [rightly] guided; and whoever he sends astray - you will never find for them protectors besides him, and We will gather them on the Day of Resurrection [fallen] on their faces - blind, dumb and deaf. Their refuge is hell; every time it subsides We increase them in blazing fire. 

18.057 : And who doth more wrong than one who is reminded of the signs of his lord, but turns away from them, forgetting the (deeds) which his hands have sent forth? Verily we have set veils over their hearts lest they should understand this, and over their ears, deafness, if thou callest them to guidance, even then will they never accept guidance.

19.083 : Seest thou not that We have set the Evil Ones on against the unbelievers, to incite them with fury?

27.004 : As to those who believe not in the hereafter, we have made their deeds pleasing in their eyes; and so they wander about in distraction.

32;13 If we had so willed, we could certainly have brought every soul its true guidance: but the word from me will come true, "I will fill hell with jinns and men all together."

Quote:


Ahh yes the inerrant qur'an definitely says that allah causes disbelief in people.

In a zillion other places it says that allah wants muzzies to slaughter these disbelievers (holler if ya want me to post them).

One sick psychopathic bit of blood crazed filth is the qur'an.


When are people going to be truthful about the qur'an?

"There's no underlying religious text or reasons why [moslems] go out and kill people......"

“Peace and love are at the center of our religion, as evidenced by scripture and history,...”

I have often stated that the *moderates* who don't want to be honest about the filth and depravity in the qur'an are quiet happy with the status quo of muslims spilling blood globally, today 21st century.

Polite gandi knows that truth will destroy his religion, so rather that see islam die he prefers the global atrocities being committed in the name of allah.

Every single muslim who lies and says the qur'an is infallible and unchangeable, by definition supports every single atrocity committed in the name of allah.



Support the cause, you support the atrocities engendered.

- Yadda



QUESTION;
What about the innocent moslems ?

IMO, [logically] there are no innocent moslems [among persons who have come to the age of consent], and yet still declare themselves to be moslems.

How so [logically] ?

QUESTION;
How credible is it that a person who is devout enough to insist that he is a moslem, is unaware of what ISLAM promotes, and is unaware of what the principle tenets of ISLAM are ?


QUESTION;
How 'innocent' is a person who agrees to give aid and comfort [and to give their own 'power'],      ...to a philosophy which transforms human beings, into homicidal maniacs ?


QUESTION;
How 'innocent' is a person who agrees to give aid and comfort [and to give their own 'power'],     ...to a philosophy which claims that murdering, in the cause of religious bigotry, is a religious virtue ?

Every incident is a single incident if you insist on wearing blinkers Gandalf.

I only gave you one example from Malaysia this time Gandalf. Of course, I had given you plenty from both Malaysia and Indonesia before, but you always managed to put your blinkers on and insist that each in turn was just one example. So why did you suddenly remove your blinkers in the case of Malaysia, but not for the other countries?

Yet you never actually cited a single example.

And what do you actually mean by "see the light"?

The whole mea culpa thing.

You have been trying to pass off Indonesia, Malaysia and Turkey as examples of progressive Muslim majority nations for years, creating elaborate excuses for the long list of human rights violations and creeping Islamofascism.

freediver wrote on Dec 24^th, 2019 at 10:19am:


I just told you FD. Next time perhaps take more than 3 minutes responding to a well thought out post, so you don't make the same mistake of repeating a question I just answered. You couldn't possibly be able to read, digest and reply coherently to such a long post in such a short time. And clearly, you didn't.

Clearly your problem here is the blind assumption that Malaysia and Indonesia are exactly the same - that they are both obviously oppressive shitholes for not other reason than 'gah Islam'. I think I've been pretty clear on why this shouldn't be assumed.

You don't seriously believe that FD. Lets be honest here. The word "Islam" alone is enough in your book. You never see anything past that. *ALL* muslims support genocide FD, doesn't matter if they are Indonesian or Malaysian - we're all the same, remember?

Lets not get carried away with this idea that gandalf has been holding on to the idea of 'progressive Malaysia' as an article of faith right up until yesterday FD. I probably referenced Malaysia as a 'progressive' Islamic country maybe once or twice, if at all, when I first joined this forum over 7 years ago. It was actually Brian pushing the idea far more rigorously. I'm pretty confident I haven't referenced in any way Malaysia as "progressive" in at least 6 years.

You think all muslims are identical FD

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2020 at 2:45pm:


I was trying to point out the error of logic behind your idiotic strawman that you keep using to avoid the real issues. Do you get it yet? Or do I need to keep explaining? I hope you understand that I am reluctant to simply move on assuming you understand, seeing as how you keep falling back on it.

as said previously, it's not that long ago that Christians were imprisoned and otherwise punished for failing to attend church

Quote:


Matthew 15:9  But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Mark 7:7  Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Matthew 7:21  Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 7:22  Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Matthew 7:23  And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

I've got a feeling these verses pretty much describe the situation.

I don't think Christ said that did He?

Correct. It's the idiotic strawman you keep bringing up to avoid the real issues.

I don't think Christ said that did He?

Quote:
I mean you do flatly refuse to consider the possibility that there is a single muslim alive somewhere in the world who doesn't actually support genocide.


This is also incorrect.

Though contrary to your misrepresentation, I have acknowledged the theoretical possibility that I am wrong right from the beginning

freediver wrote on Jan 7^th, 2020 at 1:47pm:


Yet you still made the statement. That is simply illogical.

It is not misrepresentation to say that you think its somehow tenable to simultaneously state something as fact, while saying it could be wrong at the same time. Because thats precisely what you are doing.

If you really did think it might be wrong all along, then the statement is BS from the outset FD. Its as simple as that. You don't state something as fact that you already think might be wrong. How more bonkers can you get??

freediver wrote on Jan 7^th, 2020 at 1:47pm:


Yet you still made the statement. That is simply illogical.

It is not misrepresentation to say that you think its somehow tenable to simultaneously state something as fact, while saying it could be wrong at the same time. Because thats precisely what you are doing.

If you really did think it might be wrong all along, then the statement is BS from the outset FD. Its as simple as that. You don't state something as fact that you already think might be wrong.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 24^th, 2020 at 2:39pm:


You'll have to explain this "stating as fact" thing. You are the only here here who claims to be able to make the distinction.

I don't even know what "stating as fact" means. Hence my request that you explain it.

Are you suggesting that every time there is a theoretical possibility you are wrong, you put a caveat on what you say so as not to "state it as fact"?

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 27^th, 2020 at 12:19pm:


Like I keep telling you Gandalf, it is meaningless gibberish. I only ask what you mean by it.

As far as I can tell, it means you think you are infallible, and unless others  share you self-delusion, you insist they should not say anything.