Australian Politics Forum - Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons?

Frank

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Re: Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons?
Reply #75 - Dec 4^th, 2019 at 5:20pm

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 29^th, 2019 at 10:22pm:

Frank wrote on Nov 29^th, 2019 at 6:51pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 28^th, 2019 at 9:19pm:

And every time we've called on the US for help, they've knocked us back, despite us paying our premium in blood (Vietnam, Somalia, Afganistan, Iraq)... Roll Eyes

Give us the examples of those' every times', Bwian. Go on.

1975 - East Timor

Indonesian invasion of East Timor
Australian involvement

In September 2000 the Australian Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade released previously secret files that showed that comments by the Whitlam Labor Government may have encouraged the Suharto regime to invade East Timor.[83] Despite the unpopularity of the events in East Timor within some segments of the Australian public, the Fraser, Hawke and Keating governments allegedly co-operated with the Indonesian military and President Suharto to obscure details about conditions in East Timor and to preserve Indonesian control of the region.[84] There was some disquiet towards policy with the Australian public, because of the deaths of the Australian journalists and arguably also because the actions of the Timorese people in supporting Australian forces during the Battle of Timor in World War II were well-remembered. Protests took place in Australia against the occupation, and some Australian nationals participated in the resistance movement.[citation needed]

These released files from the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade also outlined Australian National Security motivations for a Portuguese independent Timor. Repeatedly mentioned in these files are Australian oil interests in Timorese waters; as well as the potential for a renegotiation of the Portuguese Timor sea border North of Australia [85]. In line with these national security interests at the time, department officials saw it as beneficial for Australia to back an Indonesian take over, as opposed to an independent East Timor, stating: "In support of (i), Indonesian absorption of Timor makes geopolitical sense. Any other long-term solution would be potentially disruptive of both Indonesia and the region. It would help confirm our seabed agreement with Indonesia."; they however also stressed the importance of self determination of Portuguese Timor to Australian public pressure [86]. The records available also show that department officials were aware of planned clandestine operations for Indonesia to perform in Portuguese Timor, with the intent being "to ensure that the territory would opt for incorporation into Indonesia."; for which the Indonesians sought support from the Australian government [87].
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_invasion_of_East_Timor#Australian_invol...

Why would Asutralia seek assistance from the US when it went along with the Indonesian invasion???

Main article: Australian Involvement in the East Timor Invasion has no mention of ANY American involvement.

Bwian, you have now been shown to be a liar, a dishonest, gutless and spineless liar five times over, just on this one post of yours.

Stop threatening, stop being gutless, stop lying.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons?
Reply #76 - Dec 4^th, 2019 at 5:42pm

Why, Soren? Why do you think? Canberra was not consulted about the Indonesian invasion of East Timor. Dr. Kissinger, the US Secretary of State was in Jakarta a few days before the invasion. He gave his OK to the operation. Australia did not want the Indonesian invasion and asked for US help. The request was ignored.

I note you're not willing to talk about the other cases. I wonder why? Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross Moderator Offline Representative of me Posts: 39593	Re: Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons? Reply #77 - Dec 4^th, 2019 at 5:44pm Frank wrote on Dec 4^th, 2019 at 4:46pm: Brian Ross wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2019 at 3:55pm: I have personally worn a baggy green skin and been willing to go overseas and fight for my nation's sovereignty. So were in the army band and was never sent overseas. Nope. What were you in, Soren? The Boy Scouts?
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Brian Ross

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Re: Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons?
Reply #78 - Dec 4^th, 2019 at 5:44pm

Dwayne wrote on Dec 4^th, 2019 at 4:51pm:

Frank wrote on Dec 4^th, 2019 at 4:46pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2019 at 3:55pm:

I have personally worn a baggy green skin and been willing to go overseas and fight for my nation's sovereignty.

So were in the army band and was never sent overseas.

I thought a "baggy green" was something to do with cricket?

That was a cap, not a skin. Roll Eyes

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Frank

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Re: Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons?
Reply #79 - Dec 4^th, 2019 at 5:55pm

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 4^th, 2019 at 5:42pm:

Why, Soren? Why do you think? Canberra was not consulted about the Indonesian invasion of East Timor. Dr. Kissinger, the US Secretary of State was in Jakarta a few days before the invasion. He gave his OK to the operation. Australia did not want the Indonesian invasion and asked for US help. The request was ignored.

I note you're not willing to talk about the other cases. I wonder why? Roll Eyes

I refuted each and every one of your spineless, gutless lies, Bwian.

Australia tacitly SUPPORTED Indonesia's invasion of East Timor in 1975. Read back, liar.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons?
Reply #80 - Dec 4^th, 2019 at 7:08pm

Frank wrote on Dec 4^th, 2019 at 4:55pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 29^th, 2019 at 10:22pm:

Frank wrote on Nov 29^th, 2019 at 6:51pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 28^th, 2019 at 9:19pm:

And every time we've called on the US for help, they've knocked us back, despite us paying our premium in blood (Vietnam, Somalia, Afganistan, Iraq)... Roll Eyes

Give us the examples of those' every times', Bwian. Go on.

1960 - West New Guinea dispute

By 1960, other countries in the Asia-Pacific had taken notice of the dispute and began proposing initiatives to end it. During a visit to the Netherlands, the New Zealand Prime Minister Walter Nash suggested the idea of a united New Guinea state, consisting of both Dutch and Australian territories. This idea received little support from both Indonesia and other Western governments. Later that year, the Malayan Prime Minister Tunku Abdul Rahman proposed a three-step initiative, which involved West New Guinea coming under United Nations trusteeship. The joint administrators would be three non-aligned nations Ceylon, India, and Malaya, which supported Indonesia's position. This solution involved the two belligerents, Indonesia and the Netherlands, re-establishing bilateral relations and the return of Dutch assets and investments to their owners. However, this initiative was scuttled in April 1961 due to opposition from Indonesia's Foreign Minister Subandrio, who publicly attacked Tunku's proposal.
By 1961, the Netherlands was struggling to find adequate international support for its policy to prepare West New Guinea for independent status under Dutch guidance. While the Netherlands' traditional Western allies—the United States, Great Britain, Australia, and New Zealand—were sympathetic to Dutch policy, they were unwilling to provide any military support in the event of conflict with Indonesia.

How is that an example of the US 'knocking back Australia', Bwian?

Liar.

Wrong. I recommend you read more extensively on the topic, Soren. Here is a sources that might correct your incorrect, antipathetic view:

Peter Edwards with Gregory Pemberton, Crises & Commitments: The Politics and Diplomacy of Australia's Involvement in Southeast Asian Conflicts 1948-1965 (Allen & Unwin in association with the Australian War Memorial, Sydney, 1992)

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Brian Ross

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Re: Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons?
Reply #81 - Dec 4^th, 2019 at 7:10pm

Frank wrote on Dec 4^th, 2019 at 5:03pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 29^th, 2019 at 10:22pm:

Frank wrote on Nov 29^th, 2019 at 6:51pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 28^th, 2019 at 9:19pm:

And every time we've called on the US for help, they've knocked us back, despite us paying our premium in blood (Vietnam, Somalia, Afganistan, Iraq)... Roll Eyes

Give us the examples of those' every times', Bwian. Go on.

1965 - Konfrontasi

The British provided most of the defensive effort, although Malaysian forces steadily increased their contributions, and there were periodic contributions from Australian and New Zealand forces within the combined Far East Strategic Reserve stationed then in West Malaysia and Singapore.

This was a Commonwealth affar, led by Britain. No American assistance was sought by Britain, and certainly not by Australia, participating IN SUPPORT of Britain and the Commonwealth.

You liar, Bwian, bloody spineless liar.

Wrong, try again, Soren, try again:

Peter Edwards with Gregory Pemberton, Crises & Commitments: The Politics and Diplomacy of Australia's Involvement in Southeast Asian Conflicts 1948-1965 (Allen & Unwin in association with the Australian War Memorial, Sydney, 1992)

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Brian Ross

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Re: Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons?
Reply #82 - Dec 4^th, 2019 at 7:12pm

Frank wrote on Dec 4^th, 2019 at 5:08pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 29^th, 2019 at 10:22pm:

Frank wrote on Nov 29^th, 2019 at 6:51pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 28^th, 2019 at 9:19pm:

And every time we've called on the US for help, they've knocked us back, despite us paying our premium in blood (Vietnam, Somalia, Afganistan, Iraq)... Roll Eyes

Give us the examples of those' every times', Bwian. Go on.

1965 - South Vietnam

1965 in the Vietnam War

In November, the U.S. and North Vietnamese armies met head-on for the first time in the Battle of Ia Drang. Both sides claimed victory. The U.S. inflicted heavy casualties on the North Vietnamese, but the battle vindicated the conviction by North Vietnam that its military could slowly grind down the U.S.'s commitment to the war.

South Korea contributed an army division to South Vietnam, while Australia, New Zealand and other countries provided smaller numbers of soldiers.

Australia PROVIDED assistance to the US. That's not a knocking back of Australia by the US in anyone's book, except in yours, you lying, spineless, gutless cheat.

You have no idea, do you, Soren? Oh, dearie, dearie, me. I suggest you consult a copy of: War For the Asking by Michael Sexton, Penguin Australia, 1981 Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross

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Re: Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons?
Reply #83 - Dec 4^th, 2019 at 7:14pm

miketrees wrote on Dec 4^th, 2019 at 5:15pm:

I would cultivate several different stains of pathogen to let loose in China
So their medical system would be overwhelmed trying to work on several vaccines at once
A bit of Ebola,smaĺlpox ,influenza xyz
Keep in mind only if we were at war and we have our population vaccinated

This is probably why China is not advertising the fact that they are in fact already at war with us

Of course, I'd hope that you recommend we withdraw beforehand with the correct amount of time from the various treaties which prohibit us from using biological warfare? Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross

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Re: Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons?
Reply #84 - Dec 4^th, 2019 at 7:15pm

Frank wrote on Dec 4^th, 2019 at 5:55pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 4^th, 2019 at 5:42pm:

Why, Soren? Why do you think? Canberra was not consulted about the Indonesian invasion of East Timor. Dr. Kissinger, the US Secretary of State was in Jakarta a few days before the invasion. He gave his OK to the operation. Australia did not want the Indonesian invasion and asked for US help. The request was ignored.

I note you're not willing to talk about the other cases. I wonder why? Roll Eyes

I refuted each and every one of your spineless, gutless lies, Bwian.

Australia tacitly SUPPORTED Indonesia's invasion of East Timor in 1975. Read back, liar.

I apologise. I looked at the end, not the start of your antipathetic tirade, Soren. Roll Eyes

Like most Australians you are ignorant of our foreign policy history.

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miketrees Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6488 Gender:	Re: Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons? Reply #85 - Dec 4^th, 2019 at 9:51pm No doubt Australia will have some lab and capacity for biological warfare hidden away somewhere already. If only for defensive purposes....nudge nudge
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Bobby.

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Re: Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons?
Reply #86 - Dec 4^th, 2019 at 10:02pm

miketrees wrote on Dec 4^th, 2019 at 9:51pm:

No doubt Australia will have some lab and capacity for biological warfare hidden away somewhere already.
If only for defensive purposes....nudge nudge

Now that we know the human genome and understand how
to change DNA sequences it would be possible to
make a biological agent that would attack only one race of people.
If we did then it would be shrouded in secrecy
and no one would ever know except those sworn to such secrecy.

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Frank

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Re: Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons?
Reply #87 - Dec 6^th, 2019 at 3:00pm

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 4^th, 2019 at 7:12pm:

Frank wrote on Dec 4^th, 2019 at 5:08pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 29^th, 2019 at 10:22pm:

Frank wrote on Nov 29^th, 2019 at 6:51pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 28^th, 2019 at 9:19pm:

And every time we've called on the US for help, they've knocked us back, despite us paying our premium in blood (Vietnam, Somalia, Afganistan, Iraq)... Roll Eyes

Give us the examples of those' every times', Bwian. Go on.

1965 - South Vietnam

1965 in the Vietnam War

In November, the U.S. and North Vietnamese armies met head-on for the first time in the Battle of Ia Drang. Both sides claimed victory. The U.S. inflicted heavy casualties on the North Vietnamese, but the battle vindicated the conviction by North Vietnam that its military could slowly grind down the U.S.'s commitment to the war.

South Korea contributed an army division to South Vietnam, while Australia, New Zealand and other countries provided smaller numbers of soldiers.

Australia PROVIDED assistance to the US. That's not a knocking back of Australia by the US in anyone's book, except in yours, you lying, spineless, gutless cheat.

You have no idea, do you, Soren? Oh, dearie, dearie, me. I suggest you consult a copy of: War For the Asking by Michael Sexton, Penguin Australia, 1981 Roll Eyes

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Appears the serial liar Bwain is spreading his bullshit yet again. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross Moderator Offline Representative of me Posts: 39593	Re: Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons? Reply #88 - Dec 6^th, 2019 at 3:05pm *This Topic was moved here from Defence* by Brian Ross.**
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