Australian Politics Forum - Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons?

Brian Ross

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Re: Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons?
Reply #60 - Dec 2^nd, 2019 at 7:12pm

Frank wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2019 at 5:51pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 1^st, 2019 at 3:53pm:

Bobby. wrote on Dec 1^st, 2019 at 2:31pm:

Bobby. wrote on Nov 28^th, 2019 at 1:14pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 28^th, 2019 at 12:48pm:

Redmond Neck wrote on Nov 28^th, 2019 at 11:48am:

I think they would mainly act as a deterent to China attacking us!

I also think we should be developing Nuclear power as a reliable source of electricity especially as we have an abundance of Uranium this would also enhance our Nuclear industry especially militarily.

I will post out all your white feathers before Christmas!

Mmm, where is China threatening to attacking us?

Let us be realistic here and leave all the hysteria behind. China lacks for the next 10-15 years the ability to project it's power outside the China Sea (either north, south or west). It does not have the airpower to support a sustained campaign five thousand kilometres from it's homeland. It lacks the logistics to do so as well. Most importantly, it doesn't have the ability to attack and take any capital city in Australia (at the moment).

Yes, it's power is growing but it is growing (as a direct threat to Australia) much slower than most people realise if they don't read the MSM tabloids. China has not demonstrated the ability to undertake long-range cruises with it's navy beyond a few frigates.

Is that growth worth the billions of dollars that we would have to pay in order to build nuclear weapons? Is it happening so fast that we need that deterrent immediately?

As for nuclear power, we don't need it. We have more than sufficient renewable energy to last us nearly for ever. It is cheaper than nuclear power and has no dangers of fall out or catastrophe. It does not complicate our relationships with our neighbours. It does not complicate our relationship with our allies or our "enemies".

If you are concerned about China's ICBMs (as Bobby is), then we should be putting money into "Star Wars" like counter-missile forces (not that they actually work all that well). If you are that concerned about China's conventional forces, we should be putting money into counter ship missiles and weapons. Neither causes the complications that nuclear weapons cause.

China is a danger, yes. However, it is not a direct danger to Australia. It is as a nation, more of a danger indirectly (ie politically). We need to build up our cyber defences and of course, our political defences. Not wasting money on nuclear power and/or weapons.

Maybe we could ask Neville Chamberlain to
get a piece of paper signed by Xi Jinping?

We need a piece of paper.

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/12/128170/2467911-yawn_20smil...

Once again you have been shown to be a liar, Bwian, You have not shown a single instance of the US knocking back Australia.

Oh, yes I have. Roll Eyes

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Frank

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Re: Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons?
Reply #61 - Dec 2^nd, 2019 at 8:59pm

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2019 at 7:12pm:

Frank wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2019 at 5:51pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 1^st, 2019 at 3:53pm:

Bobby. wrote on Dec 1^st, 2019 at 2:31pm:

Bobby. wrote on Nov 28^th, 2019 at 1:14pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 28^th, 2019 at 12:48pm:

Redmond Neck wrote on Nov 28^th, 2019 at 11:48am:

I think they would mainly act as a deterent to China attacking us!

I also think we should be developing Nuclear power as a reliable source of electricity especially as we have an abundance of Uranium this would also enhance our Nuclear industry especially militarily.

I will post out all your white feathers before Christmas!

Mmm, where is China threatening to attacking us?

Let us be realistic here and leave all the hysteria behind. China lacks for the next 10-15 years the ability to project it's power outside the China Sea (either north, south or west). It does not have the airpower to support a sustained campaign five thousand kilometres from it's homeland. It lacks the logistics to do so as well. Most importantly, it doesn't have the ability to attack and take any capital city in Australia (at the moment).

Yes, it's power is growing but it is growing (as a direct threat to Australia) much slower than most people realise if they don't read the MSM tabloids. China has not demonstrated the ability to undertake long-range cruises with it's navy beyond a few frigates.

Is that growth worth the billions of dollars that we would have to pay in order to build nuclear weapons? Is it happening so fast that we need that deterrent immediately?

As for nuclear power, we don't need it. We have more than sufficient renewable energy to last us nearly for ever. It is cheaper than nuclear power and has no dangers of fall out or catastrophe. It does not complicate our relationships with our neighbours. It does not complicate our relationship with our allies or our "enemies".

If you are concerned about China's ICBMs (as Bobby is), then we should be putting money into "Star Wars" like counter-missile forces (not that they actually work all that well). If you are that concerned about China's conventional forces, we should be putting money into counter ship missiles and weapons. Neither causes the complications that nuclear weapons cause.

China is a danger, yes. However, it is not a direct danger to Australia. It is as a nation, more of a danger indirectly (ie politically). We need to build up our cyber defences and of course, our political defences. Not wasting money on nuclear power and/or weapons.

Maybe we could ask Neville Chamberlain to
get a piece of paper signed by Xi Jinping?

We need a piece of paper.

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/12/128170/2467911-yawn_20smil...

Once again you have been shown to be a liar, Bwian, You have not shown a single instance of the US knocking back Australia.

Oh, yes I have. Roll Eyes

No, Bwian, you listed some dates. You have NOT provided ANY evidence of the US 'knocking back Australia'. You lie. Implying falsehoods IS lying, Bwian. You have not provided any evidence for your malicious assertion that the US knocked Australia back every time we asked for assistance.

You area a tendentious, notorious liar, Bwian, a shameless, spineless, dishonest propagandist.

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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 46466 Gender:	Re: Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons? Reply #62 - Dec 2^nd, 2019 at 9:31pm Ahh but wasn't it in the Treaty that Australia, and formerly NZ, should come to the aid of the USA, but they didn't have to for Australia?
Back to top	AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY. IP Logged

Brian Ross

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Re: Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons?
Reply #63 - Dec 3^rd, 2019 at 11:47am

Frank wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2019 at 8:59pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2019 at 7:12pm:

Frank wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2019 at 5:51pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 1^st, 2019 at 3:53pm:

Bobby. wrote on Dec 1^st, 2019 at 2:31pm:

Bobby. wrote on Nov 28^th, 2019 at 1:14pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 28^th, 2019 at 12:48pm:

Redmond Neck wrote on Nov 28^th, 2019 at 11:48am:

I think they would mainly act as a deterent to China attacking us!

I also think we should be developing Nuclear power as a reliable source of electricity especially as we have an abundance of Uranium this would also enhance our Nuclear industry especially militarily.

I will post out all your white feathers before Christmas!

Mmm, where is China threatening to attacking us?

Let us be realistic here and leave all the hysteria behind. China lacks for the next 10-15 years the ability to project it's power outside the China Sea (either north, south or west). It does not have the airpower to support a sustained campaign five thousand kilometres from it's homeland. It lacks the logistics to do so as well. Most importantly, it doesn't have the ability to attack and take any capital city in Australia (at the moment).

Yes, it's power is growing but it is growing (as a direct threat to Australia) much slower than most people realise if they don't read the MSM tabloids. China has not demonstrated the ability to undertake long-range cruises with it's navy beyond a few frigates.

Is that growth worth the billions of dollars that we would have to pay in order to build nuclear weapons? Is it happening so fast that we need that deterrent immediately?

As for nuclear power, we don't need it. We have more than sufficient renewable energy to last us nearly for ever. It is cheaper than nuclear power and has no dangers of fall out or catastrophe. It does not complicate our relationships with our neighbours. It does not complicate our relationship with our allies or our "enemies".

If you are concerned about China's ICBMs (as Bobby is), then we should be putting money into "Star Wars" like counter-missile forces (not that they actually work all that well). If you are that concerned about China's conventional forces, we should be putting money into counter ship missiles and weapons. Neither causes the complications that nuclear weapons cause.

China is a danger, yes. However, it is not a direct danger to Australia. It is as a nation, more of a danger indirectly (ie politically). We need to build up our cyber defences and of course, our political defences. Not wasting money on nuclear power and/or weapons.

Maybe we could ask Neville Chamberlain to
get a piece of paper signed by Xi Jinping?

We need a piece of paper.

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/12/128170/2467911-yawn_20smil...

Once again you have been shown to be a liar, Bwian, You have not shown a single instance of the US knocking back Australia.

Oh, yes I have. Roll Eyes

No, Bwian, you listed some dates. You have NOT provided ANY evidence of the US 'knocking back Australia'. You lie. Implying falsehoods IS lying, Bwian. You have not provided any evidence for your malicious assertion that the US knocked Australia back every time we asked for assistance.

You area a tendentious, notorious liar, Bwian, a shameless, spineless, dishonest propagandist.

Run along, Soren, run along. I can hear all your friends in the little kiddies' playground call you to play with them. Have fun. The adults want to talk seriously now. OK? Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross

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Re: Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons?
Reply #64 - Dec 3^rd, 2019 at 11:52am

Jasin wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2019 at 9:31pm:

Ahh but wasn't it in the Treaty that Australia, and formerly NZ, should come to the aid of the USA, but they didn't have to for Australia?

The A**US Treaty only requires the signatories to consult:
Quote:

Article III

The Parties will consult together whenever in the opinion of any of them the territorial integrity, political independence or security of any of the Parties is threatened in the Pacific.

[Source]

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Frank

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Re: Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons?
Reply #65 - Dec 4^th, 2019 at 9:12am

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2019 at 11:52am:

Jasin wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2019 at 9:31pm:

Ahh but wasn't it in the Treaty that Australia, and formerly NZ, should come to the aid of the USA, but they didn't have to for Australia?

The A**US Treaty only requires the signatories to consult:
Quote:

Article III

The Parties will consult together whenever in the opinion of any of them the territorial integrity, political independence or security of any of the Parties is threatened in the Pacific.

[Source]

So when were those 'always knocked us back' occasions, Bwian?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Force_East_Timor

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Frank

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Re: Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons?
Reply #66 - Dec 4^th, 2019 at 9:13am

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2019 at 11:52am:

Jasin wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2019 at 9:31pm:

Ahh but wasn't it in the Treaty that Australia, and formerly NZ, should come to the aid of the USA, but they didn't have to for Australia?

The A**US Treaty only requires the signatories to consult:
Quote:

Article III

The Parties will consult together whenever in the opinion of any of them the territorial integrity, political independence or security of any of the Parties is threatened in the Pacific.

[Source]

So when were those 'always knocked us back' occasions, Bwian?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Force_East_Timor

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Brian Ross Moderator Offline Representative of me Posts: 39526	Re: Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons? Reply #67 - Dec 4^th, 2019 at 12:47pm Already explained to you, Soren.
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Frank

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Re: Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons?
Reply #68 - Dec 4^th, 2019 at 4:40pm

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 4^th, 2019 at 12:47pm:

Already explain to you, Soren. Roll Eyes

You did not, Bwian. You listed some dates and ... er... that's it:

1960 - West New Guinea dispute
1965 - Konfrontasi
1965 - South Vietnam
1975 - East Timor
1999 - East Timor

There was no knocking back in 1999, as I showed. The rest of the list is ALSO completely without substance of your idiotic assertion that the

Americans knocked us back every time.

Posting lies, Bwian, and then threatening me in PMs to ban me for 'personal attacks' is typical thin-skinned, spineless stupidity from you. Catching you at being dishonest and calling you a liar is not personal attack, Bwian, it's telling the truth. REPEATEDLY catching you at being dishonest about the same issues and calling you out for what this demonstrates about you is not a personal attack either, it's just pointing out your personal dishonesty.

You can prove me wrong very simply - show us how the Americans knocked us back at these events. Go on.

And stop threatening me for simply getting the measure of you, once again. Stop being gutless and spineless, Bwian.

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Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 40485 Gender:	Re: Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons? Reply #69 - Dec 4^th, 2019 at 4:46pm Brian Ross wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2019 at 3:55pm: I have personally worn a baggy green skin and been willing to go overseas and fight for my nation's sovereignty. So were in the army band and was never sent overseas.
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Dwayne

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Re: Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons?
Reply #70 - Dec 4^th, 2019 at 4:51pm

Frank wrote on Dec 4^th, 2019 at 4:46pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2019 at 3:55pm:

I have personally worn a baggy green skin and been willing to go overseas and fight for my nation's sovereignty.

So were in the army band and was never sent overseas.

I thought a "baggy green" was something to do with cricket?

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Frank

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Re: Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons?
Reply #71 - Dec 4^th, 2019 at 4:55pm

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 29^th, 2019 at 10:22pm:

Frank wrote on Nov 29^th, 2019 at 6:51pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 28^th, 2019 at 9:19pm:

And every time we've called on the US for help, they've knocked us back, despite us paying our premium in blood (Vietnam, Somalia, Afganistan, Iraq)... Roll Eyes

Give us the examples of those' every times', Bwian. Go on.

1960 - West New Guinea dispute

By 1960, other countries in the Asia-Pacific had taken notice of the dispute and began proposing initiatives to end it. During a visit to the Netherlands, the New Zealand Prime Minister Walter Nash suggested the idea of a united New Guinea state, consisting of both Dutch and Australian territories. This idea received little support from both Indonesia and other Western governments. Later that year, the Malayan Prime Minister Tunku Abdul Rahman proposed a three-step initiative, which involved West New Guinea coming under United Nations trusteeship. The joint administrators would be three non-aligned nations Ceylon, India, and Malaya, which supported Indonesia's position. This solution involved the two belligerents, Indonesia and the Netherlands, re-establishing bilateral relations and the return of Dutch assets and investments to their owners. However, this initiative was scuttled in April 1961 due to opposition from Indonesia's Foreign Minister Subandrio, who publicly attacked Tunku's proposal.
By 1961, the Netherlands was struggling to find adequate international support for its policy to prepare West New Guinea for independent status under Dutch guidance. While the Netherlands' traditional Western allies—the United States, Great Britain, Australia, and New Zealand—were sympathetic to Dutch policy, they were unwilling to provide any military support in the event of conflict with Indonesia.

How is that an example of the US 'knocking back Australia', Bwian?

Liar.

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Frank

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Re: Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons?
Reply #72 - Dec 4^th, 2019 at 5:03pm

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 29^th, 2019 at 10:22pm:

Frank wrote on Nov 29^th, 2019 at 6:51pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 28^th, 2019 at 9:19pm:

And every time we've called on the US for help, they've knocked us back, despite us paying our premium in blood (Vietnam, Somalia, Afganistan, Iraq)... Roll Eyes

Give us the examples of those' every times', Bwian. Go on.

1965 - Konfrontasi

The British provided most of the defensive effort, although Malaysian forces steadily increased their contributions, and there were periodic contributions from Australian and New Zealand forces within the combined Far East Strategic Reserve stationed then in West Malaysia and Singapore.

This was a Commonwealth affar, led by Britain. No American assistance was sought by Britain, and certainly not by Australia, participating IN SUPPORT of Britain and the Commonwealth.

You liar, Bwian, bloody spineless liar.

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Frank

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Re: Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons?
Reply #73 - Dec 4^th, 2019 at 5:08pm

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 29^th, 2019 at 10:22pm:

Frank wrote on Nov 29^th, 2019 at 6:51pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 28^th, 2019 at 9:19pm:

And every time we've called on the US for help, they've knocked us back, despite us paying our premium in blood (Vietnam, Somalia, Afganistan, Iraq)... Roll Eyes

Give us the examples of those' every times', Bwian. Go on.

1965 - South Vietnam

1965 in the Vietnam War

In November, the U.S. and North Vietnamese armies met head-on for the first time in the Battle of Ia Drang. Both sides claimed victory. The U.S. inflicted heavy casualties on the North Vietnamese, but the battle vindicated the conviction by North Vietnam that its military could slowly grind down the U.S.'s commitment to the war.

South Korea contributed an army division to South Vietnam, while Australia, New Zealand and other countries provided smaller numbers of soldiers.

Australia PROVIDED assistance to the US. That's not a knocking back of Australia by the US in anyone's book, except in yours, you lying, spineless, gutless cheat.

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miketrees

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Re: Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons?
Reply #74 - Dec 4^th, 2019 at 5:15pm

I would cultivate several different stains of pathogen to let loose in China
So their medical system would be overwhelmed trying to work on several vaccines at once
A bit of Ebola,smaĺlpox ,influenza xyz
Keep in mind only if we were at war and we have our population vaccinated

This is probably why China is not advertising the fact that they are in fact already at war with us

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