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Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons? (Read 5779 times)
Redmond Neck
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Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons?
Nov 28th, 2019 at 10:04am
 
With the rise of China and the USA bowing out of its involvement in world defence should Australia be taking a leaf out of Israels book and be Nuclear arming itself?

I believe this time of peace is where we should be preparing for war.

Perhaps we should double our 2% expenditure to 4% as a starter

Lets not wait until the gooks are landing on our beaches  Angry
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« Last Edit: Nov 28th, 2019 at 10:09am by Redmond Neck »  

BAN ALL THESE ABO SITES RECOGNITIONS.

ALL AUSTRALIA IS FOR ALL AUSTRALIANS!
 
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Brian Ross
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Re: Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons?
Reply #1 - Nov 28th, 2019 at 10:39am
 
Nuclear weapons are expensive.  We last looked seriously at nuclear weapons in the mid-1960s.  Prime Minister Gorton was interested in developing them and the RAN in particular was interested in their use as ASW weapons.  Gorton however, was deposed before giving the final go-ahead.  McMahon was interested in cost cutting and listened to Foreign Affairs who advocated Australia signing the Non-Proliferation Pact, which we did in 1969 IIRC.

The NPT Pact has as a consequence been a corner stone of our anti-nuclear stance.  We have been a strong advocate of that treaty and on our urging most of our neighbours have signed it.   We have developed a strong anti-nuclear mentality in the society and the bureaucracy.

In the mid-1960s we were judged to be approximately 18-24 months away from developing our own, indigenous nuclear bomb.  Today, the estimate is approximately 5 years or more.  We simply do not have the trained nuclear engineers or technicians any more, required to undertake such a task.  We would need to build a Uranium enrichment plant.   We would need at least one or more larger nuclear reactors, which would add approximately another 5 years to the task (although their construction could start semi-concurrently with the increased training of engineers/technicians), so you'd be looking at approximately 7 years at the very least before production of Plutonium could begin.  It would about 10 years in total before we could start building bombs.

We would first need to withdraw from the NPT.  AIUSI, only the DPRK has done that.  Israel never signed it, nor ASIUI did Pakistan or India.  It would be a big step to do that.   We would need to reorientate our foreign policy quite a lot as well.   The US at the very least would be upset somewhat with us and might end the A**US Pact, which would add increased costs to our defence spending, apart from the nuclear weapons programme.   We would lose New Zealand as a close ally because of their anti-nuclear stance.

With the acquisition of nuclear weapons comes increased risks, not only of nuclear accidents but also with the weapons themselves.   We would need new handling procedures and safety checks.  We would need new storage facilities.

You would need to consider also that this would skew our defence budget quite considerabley and also we would need to rethink our defence strategy and our relationships with our neighbours.

The Chinese (ie "gooks") are not going to appear over the horizon any time soon, so questions would be asked and this programme would have to survive at least two changes of Government during it's buildup.  The ALP is opposed to nuclear weapons and nuclear power historically, so you'd need to overcome that at the very least.  The Greens are inimical to anything nuclear.   Society is decidedly anti-nuclear.   So you'd have quite an uphill battle there, convincing everybody as to the necessity of this programme and how the dollars are going to be spent.
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Jasin
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Re: Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons?
Reply #2 - Nov 28th, 2019 at 11:32am
 
Australia will eventually take up Atomics and Nuclear as a source of power, more than Military aims.
This will anger New Zealand, but they are a part of Oceania, not this region of Sahul. At the most, NSW is the one state that is most like Oceania.

Nuclear as a weapon is too dangerous for this planet.
If the USA Bombed Beijing with a Nuke. The Radiation consequence could make its way to Japan or South Korea and that in itself would be an attack on them.

Nuclear Weapons true destiny is in protecting this planet from possible Meteor damage and that in itself would be catastrophic... too.
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Bobby.
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Re: Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons?
Reply #3 - Nov 28th, 2019 at 11:35am
 
Redmond Neck wrote on Nov 28th, 2019 at 10:04am:
With the rise of China and the USA bowing out of its involvement in world defence should Australia be taking a leaf out of Israels book and be Nuclear arming itself?

I believe this time of peace is where we should be preparing for war.

Perhaps we should double our 2% expenditure to 4% as a starter

Lets not wait until the gooks are landing on our beaches  Angry



Nuclear weapons are not useable because
within 30 minutes of using one an
enemy such as China would wipe
us out with their nukes.
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Jasin
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Re: Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons?
Reply #4 - Nov 28th, 2019 at 11:37am
 
Bobby. wrote on Nov 28th, 2019 at 11:35am:
Redmond Neck wrote on Nov 28th, 2019 at 10:04am:
With the rise of China and the USA bowing out of its involvement in world defence should Australia be taking a leaf out of Israels book and be Nuclear arming itself?

I believe this time of peace is where we should be preparing for war.

Perhaps we should double our 2% expenditure to 4% as a starter

Lets not wait until the gooks are landing on our beaches  Angry



Nuclear weapons are not useable because
within 30 minutes of using one an
enemy such as China would wipe
us out with their nukes.


China would wipe us out if we had nuke weapons or not.
Mind you - I don't think China would last long here in Australia. It would be like them setting up a POW camp here in a Penal Colony.  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Bobby.
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Re: Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons?
Reply #5 - Nov 28th, 2019 at 11:43am
 
Jasin wrote on Nov 28th, 2019 at 11:37am:
Bobby. wrote on Nov 28th, 2019 at 11:35am:
Redmond Neck wrote on Nov 28th, 2019 at 10:04am:
With the rise of China and the USA bowing out of its involvement in world defence should Australia be taking a leaf out of Israels book and be Nuclear arming itself?

I believe this time of peace is where we should be preparing for war.

Perhaps we should double our 2% expenditure to 4% as a starter

Lets not wait until the gooks are landing on our beaches  Angry



Nuclear weapons are not useable because
within 30 minutes of using one an
enemy such as China would wipe
us out with their nukes.


China would wipe us out if we had nuke weapons or not.
Mind you - I don't think China would last long here in Australia. It would be like them setting up a POW camp here in a Penal Colony.  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin


China doesn't want to wipe us out.
They want our cities intact for themselves.

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Redmond Neck
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Re: Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons?
Reply #6 - Nov 28th, 2019 at 11:48am
 
I think they would mainly act as a deterent to China attacking us!

I also think we should be developing Nuclear power as a reliable source of electricity especially as we have an abundance of Uranium this would also  enhance our Nuclear industry especially militarily.

I will post out all your white feathers before Christmas!





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BAN ALL THESE ABO SITES RECOGNITIONS.

ALL AUSTRALIA IS FOR ALL AUSTRALIANS!
 
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Jasin
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Re: Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons?
Reply #7 - Nov 28th, 2019 at 11:58am
 
China loves cities. Cities breed yellow people the best... citi-zens.

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Bobby.
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Re: Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons?
Reply #8 - Nov 28th, 2019 at 12:07pm
 
Jasin wrote on Nov 28th, 2019 at 11:58am:
China loves cities. Cities breed yellow people the best... citi-zens.




China would kick all the wealthy people out
of the best homes as they would be reserved
for high up members of the communist party.

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Gordon
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Re: Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons?
Reply #9 - Nov 28th, 2019 at 12:17pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Nov 28th, 2019 at 12:07pm:
Jasin wrote on Nov 28th, 2019 at 11:58am:
China loves cities. Cities breed yellow people the best... citi-zens.




China would kick all the wealthy people out
of the best homes as they would be reserved
for high up members of the communist party.



And they'd boil our dogs alive.
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IBI
 
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Bobby.
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Re: Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons?
Reply #10 - Nov 28th, 2019 at 12:37pm
 
Gordon wrote on Nov 28th, 2019 at 12:17pm:
Bobby. wrote on Nov 28th, 2019 at 12:07pm:
Jasin wrote on Nov 28th, 2019 at 11:58am:
China loves cities. Cities breed yellow people the best... citi-zens.




China would kick all the wealthy people out
of the best homes as they would be reserved
for high up members of the communist party.



And they'd boil our dogs alive.



But they'd be kind to women and children.
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Gordon
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Re: Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons?
Reply #11 - Nov 28th, 2019 at 12:45pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Nov 28th, 2019 at 12:37pm:
Gordon wrote on Nov 28th, 2019 at 12:17pm:
Bobby. wrote on Nov 28th, 2019 at 12:07pm:
Jasin wrote on Nov 28th, 2019 at 11:58am:
China loves cities. Cities breed yellow people the best... citi-zens.




China would kick all the wealthy people out
of the best homes as they would be reserved
for high up members of the communist party.



And they'd boil our dogs alive.



But they'd be kind to women and children.


Nope, they'd shoot us in the  back of the head and harvest our organs. (Probably not Monk's liver tho).
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IBI
 
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Brian Ross
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Re: Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons?
Reply #12 - Nov 28th, 2019 at 12:48pm
 
Redmond Neck wrote on Nov 28th, 2019 at 11:48am:
I think they would mainly act as a deterent to China attacking us!

I also think we should be developing Nuclear power as a reliable source of electricity especially as we have an abundance of Uranium this would also  enhance our Nuclear industry especially militarily.

I will post out all your white feathers before Christmas!


Mmm, where is China threatening to attacking us?

Let us be realistic here and leave all the hysteria behind.  China lacks for the next 10-15 years the ability to project it's power outside the China Sea (either north, south or west).   It does not have the airpower to support a sustained campaign five thousand kilometres from it's homeland.  It lacks the logistics to do so as well.  Most importantly, it doesn't have the ability to attack and take any capital city in Australia (at the moment).

Yes, it's power is growing but it is growing (as a direct threat to Australia) much slower than most people realise if they don't read the MSM tabloids.  China has not demonstrated the ability to undertake long-range cruises with it's navy beyond a few frigates.

Is that growth worth the billions of dollars that we would have to pay in order to build nuclear weapons?   Is it happening so fast that we need that deterrent immediately?

As for nuclear power, we don't need it.  We have more than sufficient renewable energy to last us nearly for ever.  It is cheaper than nuclear power and has no dangers of fall out or catastrophe.  It does not complicate our relationships with our neighbours.   It does not complicate our relationship with our allies or our "enemies".

If you are concerned about China's ICBMs (as Bobby is), then we should be putting money into "Star Wars" like counter-missile forces (not that they actually work all that well).   If you are that concerned about China's conventional forces, we should be putting money into counter ship missiles and weapons.   Neither causes the complications that nuclear weapons cause.

China is a danger, yes.  However, it is not a direct danger to Australia.  It is as a nation, more of a danger indirectly (ie politically).   We need to build up our cyber defences and of course, our political defences.   Not wasting money on nuclear power and/or weapons.


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Bobby.
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Re: Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons?
Reply #13 - Nov 28th, 2019 at 1:14pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Nov 28th, 2019 at 12:48pm:
Redmond Neck wrote on Nov 28th, 2019 at 11:48am:
I think they would mainly act as a deterent to China attacking us!

I also think we should be developing Nuclear power as a reliable source of electricity especially as we have an abundance of Uranium this would also  enhance our Nuclear industry especially militarily.

I will post out all your white feathers before Christmas!


Mmm, where is China threatening to attacking us?

Let us be realistic here and leave all the hysteria behind.  China lacks for the next 10-15 years the ability to project it's power outside the China Sea (either north, south or west).   It does not have the airpower to support a sustained campaign five thousand kilometres from it's homeland.  It lacks the logistics to do so as well.  Most importantly, it doesn't have the ability to attack and take any capital city in Australia (at the moment).

Yes, it's power is growing but it is growing (as a direct threat to Australia) much slower than most people realise if they don't read the MSM tabloids.  China has not demonstrated the ability to undertake long-range cruises with it's navy beyond a few frigates.

Is that growth worth the billions of dollars that we would have to pay in order to build nuclear weapons?   Is it happening so fast that we need that deterrent immediately?

As for nuclear power, we don't need it.  We have more than sufficient renewable energy to last us nearly for ever.  It is cheaper than nuclear power and has no dangers of fall out or catastrophe.  It does not complicate our relationships with our neighbours.   It does not complicate our relationship with our allies or our "enemies".

If you are concerned about China's ICBMs (as Bobby is), then we should be putting money into "Star Wars" like counter-missile forces (not that they actually work all that well).   If you are that concerned about China's conventional forces, we should be putting money into counter ship missiles and weapons.   Neither causes the complications that nuclear weapons cause.

China is a danger, yes.  However, it is not a direct danger to Australia.  It is as a nation, more of a danger indirectly (ie politically).   We need to build up our cyber defences and of course, our political defences.   Not wasting money on nuclear power and/or weapons.




Maybe we could Neville Chamberlain to
get a piece of paper signed by Xi Jinping?


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Bias_2012
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Re: Should Australia adopt nuclear weapons?
Reply #14 - Nov 28th, 2019 at 1:52pm
 
Aren't we nearly a province of China anyway?
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