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FIRES (Read 10498 times)
Bias_2012
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Re: FIRES
Reply #240 - Nov 17th, 2019 at 2:40pm
 
Valkie wrote on Nov 16th, 2019 at 7:03pm:
Bias_2012 wrote on Nov 16th, 2019 at 4:52pm:
I hope they made a fire break around the Jurassic Wollemi pine trees

The fire in the Wollemi National Park is out of control which has me worried because the wind has changed direction straight for my village. The place is full of smoke


They have been selling the Wollemi pines for years.

We will not lose them now.




The saplings require special conditions to survive, most probably won't make it because of adverse human intervention in back yards etc. Perhaps saplings in botanical gardens will survive

The location of the original stand of about one hundred trees is still a secret, but apparently they've survived fires in the past, scientists are telling us

This is all I could find ...
http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2002/01/14/456759.htm

Judging by the changing wind direction here, and if the pines are south of the big fire in the National Park, they may be in danger, so let's hope there's adequate precautions in place. I see a lot of water helicopters flying around here everyday




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Mattyfisk
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Re: FIRES
Reply #241 - Nov 17th, 2019 at 2:42pm
 
lee wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 1:24pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 1:00pm:
I don't think the greenies have anything to do with it. All your evidence posted to date proves so.



oops now it is not the Grees with a capital "G" but greenies witha small"g". Grin Grin Grin Grin

And you ignore Miranda Devine's piece.  But perhaps you have something concrete to rebut what she said? Media Watch? Anything?

Mattyfisk wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 1:00pm:
If you read Divine's opinion piece, you'd see no evidence of what she's talking about. She didn't even give the councils a standard right of reply.



You mean they couldn't complain to the media counsel? Why not it was a public printing? Wink

Mattyfisk wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 1:00pm:
You may recall a series of findings to come out of the Black Saturday fires in Victoria - 2 years after Divine's puff piece.



Yes.

"In its final week, the commission looked at the fuel-reduction burns in Bendigo and Gippsland. As it turned out, none of the 51 recommendations the commission handed down dealt with fuel reduction, but there was significant public concern that something more should have been done."

"In a guest editorial for Australian Forestry, Michael Ryan, one of the victims who lost houses in Bendigo and who works in forestry, said that Victorian authorities need to "manage fuels appropriately in diverse forest types, and residents at the rural-urban interface need to be properly prepared—and on 7 February the reality is that many were not." "
Source : wiki

So much for the Royal Commission.

Mattyfisk wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 1:00pm:
Fire prevention is managed by fire brigades and emergency services.


But they need permission to enter national parks. Wink

Mattyfisk wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 1:00pm:
As you point out, controlled burning and the response to bushfires is led by the states, with no "greenie" infiltration whatsoever.


So "greenie" NWPS denying access at Dubbo didn't happen because you can't corroborate it? Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin


So you've gone from Greens to greenie to the National Parks and Wildlife Service, have you?

I must say, I liked your argument that firewood collectors being banned from national parks is a major obstacle to bushfire prevention. That was a pearler.

The emergency services claim the major problem is farmers storing feed for animals in a drought - nobody's fault, of course, but it shows how lame your Greens to greenies to national parks excuse is.

The fires have spread because of drought, due to global warming. The Greens have been warning of this for years. It's the message the fire chiefs took to Canberra, and if you want to blame greenie park rangers and cite 12 year old Miranda Divine columns, you're perfectly free to do so.

Gonads and Aquascoot aren't any the wiser, but the rest of us can have a jolly good chuckle.

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Re: FIRES
Reply #242 - Nov 17th, 2019 at 2:47pm
 
Gordon wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 1:30pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 1:20pm:
Gordon wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 1:14pm:
Karnal, would you say blaming the Greens for these fires is about as baseless as the Greens calling the PM an arsonist?


Indeed I would, but the fire chiefs visit to Canberra shows that they may well agree with the Greens.

You?


If climate change is a factor to the current fires it would have been caused by human activity which occurred decades ago, probably longer, and largely by the rest of the world which creates 99% of greenhouse emissions.

So, while I agree action needs to be taken moving forward, how can anything to do with these fires be blamed on the govt?


Good. Then we agree.

So why are you asking me why the government's response to global warming has nothing to do with preventing future catastrophic natural events?

I thought that would be obvious.
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Re: FIRES
Reply #243 - Nov 17th, 2019 at 2:50pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 2:47pm:
Gordon wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 1:30pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 1:20pm:
Gordon wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 1:14pm:
Karnal, would you say blaming the Greens for these fires is about as baseless as the Greens calling the PM an arsonist?


Indeed I would, but the fire chiefs visit to Canberra shows that they may well agree with the Greens.

You?


If climate change is a factor to the current fires it would have been caused by human activity which occurred decades ago, probably longer, and largely by the rest of the world which creates 99% of greenhouse emissions.

So, while I agree action needs to be taken moving forward, how can anything to do with these fires be blamed on the govt?


Good. Then we agree.

So why are you asking me why the government's response to global warming has nothing to do with preventing future catastrophic natural events?

I thought that would be obvious.


They're being blamed for the CURRENT fires.

Also, seeing as Australia produces only 1% of greenhouse emissions, what % should the Govt take blame for future fires?

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Re: FIRES
Reply #244 - Nov 17th, 2019 at 2:52pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 2:42pm:
So you've gone from Greens to greenie to the National Parks and Wildlife Service, have you?



poor petal. Such lack of understanding. Grin Grin Grin Grin GrinMattyfisk wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 2:42pm:
I must say, I liked your argument that firewood collectors being banned from national parks is a major obstacle to bushfire prevention. That was a pearler.



So you admit you know nothing of reducing fuel loads. You do know firewood resellers use those facilities? They don't use a 6x4 trailer. Grin Grin Grin

Mattyfisk wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 2:42pm:
The fires have spread because of drought, due to global warming.



Of course petal, no fuel required. Grin Grin Grin Grin

Mattyfisk wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 2:42pm:
The emergency services claim the major problem is farmers storing feed for animals in a drought - nobody's fault, of course, but it shows how lame your Greens to greenies to national parks excuse is.



Link? or is yours a proof free zone? Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Re: FIRES
Reply #245 - Nov 17th, 2019 at 3:15pm
 
Gordon wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 2:50pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 2:47pm:
Gordon wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 1:30pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 1:20pm:
Gordon wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 1:14pm:
Karnal, would you say blaming the Greens for these fires is about as baseless as the Greens calling the PM an arsonist?


Indeed I would, but the fire chiefs visit to Canberra shows that they may well agree with the Greens.

You?


If climate change is a factor to the current fires it would have been caused by human activity which occurred decades ago, probably longer, and largely by the rest of the world which creates 99% of greenhouse emissions.

So, while I agree action needs to be taken moving forward, how can anything to do with these fires be blamed on the govt?


Good. Then we agree.

So why are you asking me why the government's response to global warming has nothing to do with preventing future catastrophic natural events?

I thought that would be obvious.


They're being blamed for the CURRENT fires.

Also, seeing as Australia produces only 1% of greenhouse emissions, what % should the Govt take blame for future fires?



Australia has the highest per-capita emissions rate in the world.

Again, I would have thought action on that would be a major point of discussion during ever-increasing climate disasters.

Anyway, you've already said you agree, so stop arguing with yourself, dear.
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Re: FIRES
Reply #246 - Nov 17th, 2019 at 3:20pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 3:15pm:
Gordon wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 2:50pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 2:47pm:
Gordon wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 1:30pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 1:20pm:
Gordon wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 1:14pm:
Karnal, would you say blaming the Greens for these fires is about as baseless as the Greens calling the PM an arsonist?


Indeed I would, but the fire chiefs visit to Canberra shows that they may well agree with the Greens.

You?


If climate change is a factor to the current fires it would have been caused by human activity which occurred decades ago, probably longer, and largely by the rest of the world which creates 99% of greenhouse emissions.

So, while I agree action needs to be taken moving forward, how can anything to do with these fires be blamed on the govt?


Good. Then we agree.

So why are you asking me why the government's response to global warming has nothing to do with preventing future catastrophic natural events?

I thought that would be obvious.


They're being blamed for the CURRENT fires.

Also, seeing as Australia produces only 1% of greenhouse emissions, what % should the Govt take blame for future fires?



Australia has the highest per-capita emissions rate in the world.

Again, I would have thought action on that would be a major point of discussion during ever-increasing climate disasters.

Anyway, you've already said you agree, so stop arguing with yourself, dear.


You're  evading. How can the current Govt be to blame for the current fires?

Are the Greens making political mileage from this?
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lee
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Re: FIRES
Reply #247 - Nov 17th, 2019 at 3:22pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 3:15pm:
Australia has the highest per-capita emissions rate in the world.



The old per capita emissions argument. Apparently it doesn't matter about overall emissions. One would have thought that should be the case if CO2 is such an "existential  threat".

Meanwhile Australia is a carbon sink. So Australia's net emissions are below zero. Wink
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Re: FIRES
Reply #248 - Nov 17th, 2019 at 3:26pm
 
lee wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 2:52pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 2:42pm:
So you've gone from Greens to greenie to the National Parks and Wildlife Service, have you?



poor petal. Such lack of understanding. Grin Grin Grin Grin GrinMattyfisk wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 2:42pm:
I must say, I liked your argument that firewood collectors being banned from national parks is a major obstacle to bushfire prevention. That was a pearler.



So you admit you know nothing of reducing fuel loads. You do know firewood resellers use those facilities? They don't use a 6x4 trailer. Grin Grin Grin

Mattyfisk wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 2:42pm:
The fires have spread because of drought, due to global warming.



Of course petal, no fuel required. Grin Grin Grin Grin

Mattyfisk wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 2:42pm:
The emergency services claim the major problem is farmers storing feed for animals in a drought - nobody's fault, of course, but it shows how lame your Greens to greenies to national parks excuse is.



Link? or is yours a proof free zone? Grin Grin Grin Grin


Questions questions, dear. Of course I know nothing of reducing fuel loads. Nor do you.

But here you are quoting 12 year old Miranda Divine pieces when those who DO know about fighting fires are saying something else entirely.

Still, it's good to see you having such a hearty chuckle. We're just here to have a jolly wheeze, no?
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Re: FIRES
Reply #249 - Nov 17th, 2019 at 3:31pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 3:26pm:
Of course I know nothing of reducing fuel loads. Nor do you.


Wrong petal. I am a volunteer Fire and Emergency Response Officer for my local brigade (DFES in WA). You? Oh that's right you know nothing.

We won't find you near the fire lines will we?

Mattyfisk wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 3:26pm:
But here you are quoting 12 year old Miranda Divine pieces when those who DO know about fighting fires are saying something else entirely.



And no link for your assertion. Why is that?
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Re: FIRES
Reply #250 - Nov 17th, 2019 at 3:32pm
 
lee wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 3:22pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 3:15pm:
Australia has the highest per-capita emissions rate in the world.



The old per capita emissions argument. Apparently it doesn't matter about overall emissions. One would have thought that should be the case if CO2 is such an "existential  threat".

Meanwhile Australia is a carbon sink. So Australia's net emissions are below zero. Wink


Imagine, Germany, with all its power needed for freezing Winters, has a percentage of the emissions Australia has. We have an entire continent - sun, wind, thermal, tidal. And we can't keep up with Europe.

This is entirely political, but in Australia, it's far more doable, not to mention cheaper.

And we still can't get it done.
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Re: FIRES
Reply #251 - Nov 17th, 2019 at 3:39pm
 
lee wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 3:31pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 3:26pm:
Of course I know nothing of reducing fuel loads. Nor do you.


Wrong petal. I am a volunteer Fire and Emergency Response Officer for my local brigade (DFES in WA). You? Oh that's right you know nothing.

We won't find you near the fire lines will we?

Mattyfisk wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 3:26pm:
But here you are quoting 12 year old Miranda Divine pieces when those who DO know about fighting fires are saying something else entirely.


And no link for your assertion. Why is that?


How am I going to find a link to rebut a silly 12 year old Miranda Divine propaganda piece?

As a fireman, I would have thought you'd be referring to your own experience. Your discussion of the terms - backburning, controlled burning, etc, has been worth reading.
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Re: FIRES
Reply #252 - Nov 17th, 2019 at 3:45pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 3:32pm:
Imagine, Germany, with all its power needed for freezing Winters, has a percentage of the emissions Australia has. We have an entire continent - sun, wind, thermal, tidal. And we can't keep up with Europe.



No petal. Germany has just signed into law attempting to lower emissions.

"Under the new emissions trading system, the government will issue emissions rights for €10 per tonne in 2021, with prices rising every year to €35 until 2025. From 2026 onwards, a cap will be placed on emissions, shrinking every year."

"Other key measures included:

    Confirmation that Germany will phase out coal power by the 2038 at the latest
    A goal to put 7-10 million electric cars on the road powered by 1 million charging points
    A goal to increase the renewable share of energy to 65% by 2030"

https://www.climatechangenews.com/2019/09/20/germany-announces-host-new-measures...

Mattyfisk wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 3:32pm:
This is entirely political, but in Australia, it's far more doable, not to mention cheaper.



it doesn't seem cheaper in Germany -

"All over Germany, only 35 new windmills with a combined output of a mere 290 MW were installed in the first half of 2019 — a decline of more than 80% compared with the same period last year and the lowest total in almost two decades. In 2018, Germany installed wind turbines with a total capacity of 2,800 MW. That in itself was a sharp drop from 2017, when Germany added more than 5,000 MW of wind capacity on land. "

https://www.dw.com/en/german-wind-energy-stalls-amid-public-resistance-and-regul...

Must be something in the water or the subsidies or something.

And still no link to your assertion. Wink
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Re: FIRES
Reply #253 - Nov 17th, 2019 at 3:47pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 3:39pm:
How am I going to find a link to rebut a silly 12 year old Miranda Divine propaganda piece?



Well it was your assertion.

Mattyfisk wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 3:39pm:
As a fireman, I would have thought you'd be referring to your own experience. Your discussion of the terms - backburning, controlled burning, etc, has been worth reading.



So I don't talk much about my experience. Some do, some don't
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Re: FIRES
Reply #254 - Nov 17th, 2019 at 3:52pm
 
Quote:
CO2 emissions per capita in Germany are equivalent to 9.44 tons per person (based on a population of 82,193,768 in 2016), an increase by 0.07 over the figure of 9.36 CO2 tons per person registered in 2015; this represents a change of 0.8% in CO2 emissions per capita.

https://knoema.com/atlas/Germany/CO2-emissions-per-capita

Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?

Quote:
Australia has one of the highest per capita emissions of carbon dioxide in the world, with its 0.3% of the world's population releasing 1.07% of the world's greenhouse gases. Australia is one of the lowest emitters by area, due to its low population density.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas_emissions_by_Australia

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