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Scummo government's hypocrisy with pensioners (Read 1214 times)
Dnarever
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Re: Scummo government's hypocrisy with pensioners
Reply #15 - Oct 23rd, 2019 at 12:55pm
 
Quote:
Scummo government's hypocrisy with pensioners


It is worse than hypocrisy it is theft.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Scummo government's hypocrisy with pensioners
Reply #16 - Oct 23rd, 2019 at 1:20pm
 

I've found that the happy clapping "Christians" are some of the biggest hypocrites on the planet.

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crocodile
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Re: Scummo government's hypocrisy with pensioners
Reply #17 - Oct 23rd, 2019 at 1:31pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Oct 23rd, 2019 at 12:47pm:
crocodile wrote on Oct 23rd, 2019 at 12:24pm:
Absolutely astounding how ignorance pervades this board. Anybody with an ounce of understanding of finance and compounding would see the government scheme as pretty generous. But only if they bothered to get off their fat grubby arses and actually read then understood how the scheme works.

The government 5.5% is charged only as the loan is drawn down. The banks, including Household Capital charge principal and interest. A subtle difference with a gigantic impact.

Just suppose that Marge and Fred have spent their super at 75 and need an extra $13000 pa for 10 years when the amount due will come from their estate.

Government scheme 13000 * ( ( 1.055^10 - 1 ) / 0.055 ) = $167379.60
Household Capital  130000 * 1.0515^10 = $214800.91

Total interest:
Government = $37379.60
Household = $84800.91

The idiot that wrote the article is a fukkwit and so are the fools that swallowed it.



Quote:
The government 5.5% is charged only as the loan is drawn down.

Your ignorance is there for all to see. It is patently clear that you have no understanding of these loan types.


1) Actually the loan is payed out each foughtnight by effectively extending the loan as the payments are made. You can not take a lump sum up front in which case you would be able to accrue interest. Any interest is being collected by the government.

For the purpose of illustration the compounding period is irrelevant. It only changes the end amount with the non government mob coming out worse who incidentally compound daily


Note: the government still have full access and control over the money that they have not loaned the pensioner yet, it would be immoral to charge the pensioner interest on this money as it is simply not the pensioners money yet..

You're confused again. I never said that they did. Quite the opposite in fact.


They don't. That's the difference. They charge interest only on the amount forwarded which incrementally accrues from that date.


Your idea of charging interest on money before it is accessible and has not been loaned -  is a bit rich.

You're confused. I made no such statement.


Yes your claim is incorrect but only in terms of fact.

No. You are just too dumb to understand


In terms of the two loan types you are comparing apples to lady's Lingerie.

Yes, that's because the two loan types are different. Something that doesn't appear to have gotten into your skull just yet. No point comparing the same thing.


Without all the but But But But's the loan is being charged interest at 5.5% when the Res Bank interest rate is at 0.5%. - Yes the government are profiteering on pension loans.

2) Who to believe some internet hack or the financial analysis of the Australian Financial Review ?

I know which way I would be going on that one.


I don't really give a fukk who you want to believe. Joanne Mather with absolutely no finance qualifications whatsoever is fine by me. Keep your head in the sand for as long as you want.


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Dwayne
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Re: Scummo government's hypocrisy with pensioners
Reply #18 - Oct 23rd, 2019 at 3:44pm
 
Reverse Mortgages. It was in the news about 20 years ago and sounded like a "plan" if you were going to retire and wanted to free up some ready cash to travel the World or something. I recall friends mentioning it.

I also recall young Mortgagors talking about how much "equity" they had in their house - while they still had a Mortgage. Typically, they thought it would be "free" money. 

IF "Marge and Fred" spent all their Superannuation by 75, why didn't they seek Financial Advice before they retired? Also, if they have run out of cash, surely they can apply for the Age Pension? You can have a decent Bank balance and own your home and still get that.

Anybody who owns their own home in their 70s and needs a "reverse mortgage" to pay debts has mental issues.. 


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crocodile
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Re: Scummo government's hypocrisy with pensioners
Reply #19 - Oct 23rd, 2019 at 3:56pm
 
Dwayne wrote on Oct 23rd, 2019 at 3:44pm:
Reverse Mortgages. It was in the news about 20 years ago and sounded like a "plan" if you were going to retire and wanted to free up some ready cash to travel the World or something. I recall friends mentioning it.

I also recall young Mortgagors talking about how much "equity" they had in their house - while they still had a Mortgage. Typically, they thought it would be "free" money. 

IF "Marge and Fred" spent all their Superannuation by 75, why didn't they seek Financial Advice before they retired? Also, if they have run out of cash, surely they can apply for the Age Pension? You can have a decent Bank balance and own your home and still get that.

Anybody who owns their own home in their 70s and needs a "reverse mortgage" to pay debts has mental issues.. 



Maybe they didn't have much super to start with.
They don't have mental issues. It's their equity to use as they please.
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Dwayne
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Re: Scummo government's hypocrisy with pensioners
Reply #20 - Oct 23rd, 2019 at 4:09pm
 
crocodile wrote on Oct 23rd, 2019 at 3:56pm:
Dwayne wrote on Oct 23rd, 2019 at 3:44pm:
Reverse Mortgages. It was in the news about 20 years ago and sounded like a "plan" if you were going to retire and wanted to free up some ready cash to travel the World or something. I recall friends mentioning it.

I also recall young Mortgagors talking about how much "equity" they had in their house - while they still had a Mortgage. Typically, they thought it would be "free" money. 

IF "Marge and Fred" spent all their Superannuation by 75, why didn't they seek Financial Advice before they retired? Also, if they have run out of cash, surely they can apply for the Age Pension? You can have a decent Bank balance and own your home and still get that.

Anybody who owns their own home in their 70s and needs a "reverse mortgage" to pay debts has mental issues.. 



Maybe they didn't have much super to start with.
They don't have mental issues. It's their equity to use as they please.


Perhaps not "mental issues" rather "debt issues" (gambling?).

Sure it is their house to do what they wish. I've forgotten what the percentage was, but if you own your own home, then the "reverse mortgage" will be a percentage of that, payable when you die.

People needing to go into a "Retirement Home" - not due to inability but to have somewhere to live with 24/7 medical services, their own 2 rooms (bedroom, sitting room, bathroom) and communal eating, etc. sell the house too. I think they can claim back some funds when they die.

In any event, children should not rely on their parents for an "inheritance" and spend willy nilly.
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crocodile
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Re: Scummo government's hypocrisy with pensioners
Reply #21 - Oct 23rd, 2019 at 4:32pm
 
Dwayne wrote on Oct 23rd, 2019 at 4:09pm:
crocodile wrote on Oct 23rd, 2019 at 3:56pm:
Dwayne wrote on Oct 23rd, 2019 at 3:44pm:
Reverse Mortgages. It was in the news about 20 years ago and sounded like a "plan" if you were going to retire and wanted to free up some ready cash to travel the World or something. I recall friends mentioning it.

I also recall young Mortgagors talking about how much "equity" they had in their house - while they still had a Mortgage. Typically, they thought it would be "free" money. 

IF "Marge and Fred" spent all their Superannuation by 75, why didn't they seek Financial Advice before they retired? Also, if they have run out of cash, surely they can apply for the Age Pension? You can have a decent Bank balance and own your home and still get that.

Anybody who owns their own home in their 70s and needs a "reverse mortgage" to pay debts has mental issues.. 



Maybe they didn't have much super to start with.
They don't have mental issues. It's their equity to use as they please.


Perhaps not "mental issues" rather "debt issues" (gambling?).

Could be for anything. It's their money. They might feel like a holiday or upgrade their car yadda yadda yadda.


Sure it is their house to do what they wish. I've forgotten what the percentage was, but if you own your own home, then the "reverse mortgage" will be a percentage of that, payable when you die.

Not quite. The government scheme is 5.5% calculated fortnightly on the balance drawn down.


People needing to go into a "Retirement Home" - not due to inability but to have somewhere to live with 24/7 medical services, their own 2 rooms (bedroom, sitting room, bathroom) and communal eating, etc. sell the house too. I think they can claim back some funds when they die.

If they can pay the accomodation and care fee the accommodation fee is repaid in full without the capital appreciation. If they can't afford the daily care fee it comes out of the accommodation fund and the remainder is returned to the heirs and graces.


In any event, children should not rely on their parents for an "inheritance" and spend willy nilly.

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Captain Nemo
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Re: Scummo government's hypocrisy with pensioners
Reply #22 - Oct 23rd, 2019 at 4:39pm
 
The scheme, set up in 1985, enables retirees to apply for an income stream of up to 1.5 times the maximum rate of the age pension. A person on the full pension and supplements of about $24,000 could boost their income by $12,000 annually.

The scheme has struggled to attract users and Mr Frydenberg recently broadened its criteria.

People who are at least of age pension age, own their home or an investment property outright and have enough insurance over the building can now access the system.

Mr Frydenberg said the scheme enabled retirees to boost their retirement income by unlocking the equity they had built up in their home.

"The current interest rate of 5.25 per cent for the pension loan scheme is lower than the rates charged by the private sector," he said.

"Typical interest rates for commercial reverse mortgage products currently range from around 6.25 per cent to 6.5 per cent per annum."

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/retiree-reverse-mortgage-system-rates-to-be-reviewed-20191023-p533kp.html




The rate on the Government loan scheme will probably be reduced a little too.

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Re: Scummo government's hypocrisy with pensioners
Reply #23 - Oct 23rd, 2019 at 7:17pm
 
crocodile wrote on Oct 23rd, 2019 at 1:31pm:
Dnarever wrote on Oct 23rd, 2019 at 12:47pm:
crocodile wrote on Oct 23rd, 2019 at 12:24pm:
Absolutely astounding how ignorance pervades this board. Anybody with an ounce of understanding of finance and compounding would see the government scheme as pretty generous. But only if they bothered to get off their fat grubby arses and actually read then understood how the scheme works.

The government 5.5% is charged only as the loan is drawn down. The banks, including Household Capital charge principal and interest. A subtle difference with a gigantic impact.

Just suppose that Marge and Fred have spent their super at 75 and need an extra $13000 pa for 10 years when the amount due will come from their estate.

Government scheme 13000 * ( ( 1.055^10 - 1 ) / 0.055 ) = $167379.60
Household Capital  130000 * 1.0515^10 = $214800.91

Total interest:
Government = $37379.60
Household = $84800.91

The idiot that wrote the article is a fukkwit and so are the fools that swallowed it.



Quote:
The government 5.5% is charged only as the loan is drawn down.

Your ignorance is there for all to see. It is patently clear that you have no understanding of these loan types.


1) Actually the loan is payed out each foughtnight by effectively extending the loan as the payments are made. You can not take a lump sum up front in which case you would be able to accrue interest. Any interest is being collected by the government.

For the purpose of illustration the compounding period is irrelevant. It only changes the end amount with the non government mob coming out worse who incidentally compound daily


Note: the government still have full access and control over the money that they have not loaned the pensioner yet, it would be immoral to charge the pensioner interest on this money as it is simply not the pensioners money yet..

You're confused again. I never said that they did. Quite the opposite in fact.


They don't. That's the difference. They charge interest only on the amount forwarded which incrementally accrues from that date.


Your idea of charging interest on money before it is accessible and has not been loaned -  is a bit rich.

You're confused. I made no such statement.


Yes your claim is incorrect but only in terms of fact.

No. You are just too dumb to understand


In terms of the two loan types you are comparing apples to lady's Lingerie.

Yes, that's because the two loan types are different. Something that doesn't appear to have gotten into your skull just yet. No point comparing the same thing.


Without all the but But But But's the loan is being charged interest at 5.5% when the Res Bank interest rate is at 0.5%. - Yes the government are profiteering on pension loans.

2) Who to believe some internet hack or the financial analysis of the Australian Financial Review ?

I know which way I would be going on that one.


I don't really give a fukk who you want to believe. Joanne Mather with absolutely no finance qualifications whatsoever is fine by me. Keep your head in the sand for as long as you want.




Croc Said originally:
Quote:
Anybody with an ounce of understanding of finance and compounding would see the government scheme as pretty generous


Crock's updated View ????

Quote:
Yes the government are profiteering on pension loans.


Quote:
DNA said.
Quote:
In terms of the two loan types you are comparing apples to lady's Lingerie.


Crok said:
Quote:
Yes, that's because the two loan types are different. Something that doesn't appear to have gotten into your skull just yet. No point comparing the same thing.



When you line up two separate calculations beside each other in comparison the inference is that the comparison has some validity - reason for being made ? To deliberately compare apples to oranges is dishonest.

When you compare different things you expect different results but it does not mean anything.
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« Last Edit: Oct 23rd, 2019 at 7:31pm by Dnarever »  
 
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crocodile
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Re: Scummo government's hypocrisy with pensioners
Reply #24 - Oct 23rd, 2019 at 8:02pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Oct 23rd, 2019 at 7:17pm:
crocodile wrote on Oct 23rd, 2019 at 1:31pm:
Dnarever wrote on Oct 23rd, 2019 at 12:47pm:
crocodile wrote on Oct 23rd, 2019 at 12:24pm:
Absolutely astounding how ignorance pervades this board. Anybody with an ounce of understanding of finance and compounding would see the government scheme as pretty generous. But only if they bothered to get off their fat grubby arses and actually read then understood how the scheme works.

The government 5.5% is charged only as the loan is drawn down. The banks, including Household Capital charge principal and interest. A subtle difference with a gigantic impact.

Just suppose that Marge and Fred have spent their super at 75 and need an extra $13000 pa for 10 years when the amount due will come from their estate.

Government scheme 13000 * ( ( 1.055^10 - 1 ) / 0.055 ) = $167379.60
Household Capital  130000 * 1.0515^10 = $214800.91

Total interest:
Government = $37379.60
Household = $84800.91

The idiot that wrote the article is a fukkwit and so are the fools that swallowed it.



Quote:
The government 5.5% is charged only as the loan is drawn down.

Your ignorance is there for all to see. It is patently clear that you have no understanding of these loan types.


1) Actually the loan is payed out each foughtnight by effectively extending the loan as the payments are made. You can not take a lump sum up front in which case you would be able to accrue interest. Any interest is being collected by the government.

For the purpose of illustration the compounding period is irrelevant. It only changes the end amount with the non government mob coming out worse who incidentally compound daily


Note: the government still have full access and control over the money that they have not loaned the pensioner yet, it would be immoral to charge the pensioner interest on this money as it is simply not the pensioners money yet..

You're confused again. I never said that they did. Quite the opposite in fact.


They don't. That's the difference. They charge interest only on the amount forwarded which incrementally accrues from that date.


Your idea of charging interest on money before it is accessible and has not been loaned -  is a bit rich.

You're confused. I made no such statement.


Yes your claim is incorrect but only in terms of fact.

No. You are just too dumb to understand


In terms of the two loan types you are comparing apples to lady's Lingerie.

Yes, that's because the two loan types are different. Something that doesn't appear to have gotten into your skull just yet. No point comparing the same thing.


Without all the but But But But's the loan is being charged interest at 5.5% when the Res Bank interest rate is at 0.5%. - Yes the government are profiteering on pension loans.

2) Who to believe some internet hack or the financial analysis of the Australian Financial Review ?

I know which way I would be going on that one.


I don't really give a fukk who you want to believe. Joanne Mather with absolutely no finance qualifications whatsoever is fine by me. Keep your head in the sand for as long as you want.




Croc Said originally:
Quote:
Anybody with an ounce of understanding of finance and compounding would see the government scheme as pretty generous


Crock's updated View ????

Quote:
Yes the government are profiteering on pension loans.


Quote:
DNA said.
Quote:
In terms of the two loan types you are comparing apples to lady's Lingerie.


Crok said:
Quote:
Yes, that's because the two loan types are different. Something that doesn't appear to have gotten into your skull just yet. No point comparing the same thing.



When you line up two separate calculations beside each other in comparison the inference is that the comparison has some validity - reason for being made ? To deliberately compare apples to oranges is dishonest.

When you compare different things you expect different results but it does not mean anything.

You are a doofus. The comparison is completely valid as it calculates the amount payable for the same amount of borrowed funds but with different methods of interest charges. Of course the schemes are apples and oranges. That's the whole point. Same borrowed money. Same time period. One scheme charges more for the same money over the same time.

Some people are just raging twits without realising it.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.
 
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Dnarever
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Re: Scummo government's hypocrisy with pensioners
Reply #25 - Oct 23rd, 2019 at 8:48pm
 
crocodile wrote on Oct 23rd, 2019 at 8:02pm:
You are a doofus. The comparison is completely valid as it calculates the amount payable for the same amount of borrowed funds but with different methods of interest charges. Of course the schemes are apples and oranges. That's the whole point. Same borrowed money. Same time period. One scheme charges more for the same money over the same time.

Some people are just raging twits without realising it.



Quote:
The comparison is completely valid as it calculates the amount payable for the same amount of borrowed funds but with different methods of interest charges.


No it doesn't - In one loan all the cash is borrowed on day one. Where on the other the money is progressively loaned. i.e the full loan is finalised only on the last payment maybe 15 years in the future. Prior to that date the full loan amount has never been made available. Once again you are factually wrong.

Quote:
One scheme charges more for the same money over the same time.


Also not true.

In one schemt 100% of the borrowed money is available on day 1.

In the second scheme maybe as little as 0.5% of the total or less is borrowed on day 1.

I.E. In one scheme On day one if the total is going to be 15,000 the full $15,000 is borrowed on day one.

In scheme 2 if the fortnightly  payment is going to be $120 then only $120 is borrowed on Day 1.

Clearly not the same money over the same time.

Not clever to throw insults when your own statements are so wrong in terms of fact.
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crocodile
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Re: Scummo government's hypocrisy with pensioners
Reply #26 - Oct 23rd, 2019 at 10:58pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Oct 23rd, 2019 at 8:48pm:
crocodile wrote on Oct 23rd, 2019 at 8:02pm:
You are a doofus. The comparison is completely valid as it calculates the amount payable for the same amount of borrowed funds but with different methods of interest charges. Of course the schemes are apples and oranges. That's the whole point. Same borrowed money. Same time period. One scheme charges more for the same money over the same time.

Some people are just raging twits without realising it.



Quote:
The comparison is completely valid as it calculates the amount payable for the same amount of borrowed funds but with different methods of interest charges.


No it doesn't - In one loan all the cash is borrowed on day one. Where on the other the money is progressively loaned. i.e the full loan is finalised only on the last payment maybe 15 years in the future. Prior to that date the full loan amount has never been made available. Once again you are factually wrong.

I made precisely that point in the very first post.

"The government 5.5% is charged only as the loan is drawn down. The banks, including Household Capital charge principal and interest. A subtle difference with a gigantic impact"


Quote:
One scheme charges more for the same money over the same time.


Also not true.

In one schemt 100% of the borrowed money is available on day 1.

That's the whole point. The government scheme allows the payments to be streamed with the interest effective from the streaming date


In the second scheme maybe as little as 0.5% of the total or less is borrowed on day 1.

I made that point too in the first post completely illustrated with calculation methods


I.E. In one scheme On day one if the total is going to be 15,000 the full $15,000 is borrowed on day one.

In scheme 2 if the fortnightly  payment is going to be $120 then only $120 is borrowed on Day 1.

Clearly not the same money over the same time.

It is exactly the same money and over the same time. The only difference being when the funds are released and interest charged


Not clever to throw insults when your own statements are so wrong in terms of fact.

There is nothing wrong the statements, only your comprehension ability.



The plain fact is that the OP has cited an article where the author pans the government system and then further on highlights the fact that another institution is charging a lower rate.

The author fails to point out the difference between the two loan arrangements. The non government one ending up with interest charges after 10 years that are in fact double the government one.

I've just exposed the truth of the matter. It doesn't get much simpler and if you're too thick to work it out don't get old.
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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.
 
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juliar
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Re: Scummo government's hypocrisy with pensioners
Reply #27 - Oct 24th, 2019 at 10:54am
 
What about the Chinese Labor Party's hypocrisy towards retirees and pensioners when these leeches were going to STEAL their INCOME!!!!!!
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