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Record Number Asylum Seekers Arriving By Air (Read 7064 times)
UnSubRocky
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Re: Record Number Asylum Seekers Arriving By Air
Reply #120 - Oct 11th, 2019 at 4:02pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 9th, 2019 at 11:16pm:
Catch-a 22 ... only the unreal claimants to refuge can get a visa and get on a plane.... the rest, the real ones, have to take a boat and their chances on a hostile sea and a hostile shore....


If you are not able to get away far enough from your persecution, you are considered a refugee candidate. If you have the means to get away from persecution, you are no longer able to be considered a refugee. That kind of Catch-22?
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Dnarever
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Re: Record Number Asylum Seekers Arriving By Air
Reply #121 - Oct 11th, 2019 at 8:01pm
 
rhino wrote on Oct 10th, 2019 at 10:59pm:
Dnarever wrote on Oct 10th, 2019 at 10:27pm:
rhino wrote on Oct 10th, 2019 at 9:57pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 9th, 2019 at 11:16pm:
rhino wrote on Oct 9th, 2019 at 10:51pm:
Dnarever wrote on Oct 9th, 2019 at 8:05pm:
Frank wrote on Oct 9th, 2019 at 7:20pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 9th, 2019 at 3:21pm:
I'm saying that once their claims are officially assessed, the asylum seekers who come by boat are found to be refugees and the asylum seekers who come by plane are not.


On a boat - no passport. Benefit of doubt as true identity cannot be ascertained.

On plane, with visa - identity is pretty clear and verified in 95+% of cases.

But you, a stinking turd, will never admit to noticing the glaring difference.   That's why you are a Turd - you insist on being stupid.





Most boat arrivals have lots of identifying documentation.
No they dont, thats been shown. Its not in dispute that the vast majority of boat arrivals arrive here without documentation.


Quote:
Examples of air arrivals on false documentation.Yes from parts of the world including laces where Australia favours access have corrupt processes making false passports not terribly difficult to obtain.
The point is that these people are not arriving on false documentation. They are coming here on easily obtainable visas due to reciprocal arrangements between countries. You need to understand this, their documentation is valid.


So the processing of visas - generally by foreign nations in their own country - is the problem?   

No, thats not the issue. These people are obtaining visas legally, they are entitled to the visas. Its just a large number of them overstay. Most of them are Malaysians.


Wrong again:

The people in the article 90,000 of them are presenting at customs and requesting asylum. This is happening on entry.
Incorrect again, they are claiming after entry. Its impossible for them to claim asylum before entry you dufus.  Grin

Quote:
People who overstay cannot claim refugee status. Yes there are a lot of them too but thay are not part of this 90,000 count.
wrong again

https://www.asrc.org.au/resources/fact-sheet/update-on-legal-changes-for-asylum-...



Your article agrees with me ????

Not sure if you need a better article or improved comprehension, could be that you should have read the piece.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: Record Number Asylum Seekers Arriving By Air
Reply #122 - Oct 12th, 2019 at 1:50am
 
UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 11th, 2019 at 4:02pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 9th, 2019 at 11:16pm:
Catch-a 22 ... only the unreal claimants to refuge can get a visa and get on a plane.... the rest, the real ones, have to take a boat and their chances on a hostile sea and a hostile shore....


If you are not able to get away far enough from your persecution, you are considered a refugee candidate. If you have the means to get away from persecution, you are no longer able to be considered a refugee. That kind of Catch-22?


Sort of - but I'm working on the realities of people who want to get out of a nation that is actually persecuting them - those do not get visas from their own country that is persecuting them....

That's Catch-22...

So they escape and evade and then seek to get on a boat to nowhere..... their other choice is to remain in a foreign country that does not support them in any way..... those are the realities... they can't just get on a plane because they have no visa and often no passport from their native country, unlike those who arrive with a suitcase of dollar bills, a passport, and a visa, at an airport of entry, and then claim refugee status....

People who are genuine refugees cannot get a visa...... they cannot get a passport..they often cannot get documents to prove who they are... because they are persecuted.

You reckon the ayatollahs give out passports, visas and IDs to those they want to persecute and keep close so they can dispose of them at will?  Just an example.....

So the chances are, and have proven to be - as gregpecc said - that those capable of arriving at a port of entry with a visa and a passport and all supporting documents - are not genuine refugees, but are instead economic refugees...

Nobody on the run could have all those.... and suggestions that 'boat people' throw their documents overboard or burn them are fatuous and frankly ridiculous.... given that their only chance of gaining asylum is through proving who they are....

Lies on an industrial scale....
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« Last Edit: Oct 12th, 2019 at 2:00am by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »  

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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rhino
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Re: Record Number Asylum Seekers Arriving By Air
Reply #123 - Oct 12th, 2019 at 1:59am
 
Dnarever wrote on Oct 11th, 2019 at 8:01pm:


Your article agrees with me ????


Does it? Show this.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: Record Number Asylum Seekers Arriving By Air
Reply #124 - Oct 12th, 2019 at 2:13am
 
I thought I nailed this issue pretty well - I have studied this sh1t and have operated in foreign nations....

As I said - issuing of visas is nearly always contracted out to locals, who may well be agents of the national security services or suborned by those, may be subject to baksheesh, may be preferential to their own group in that society, and have no real accountability to the (Australian) embassy staff who contract this work out to them - since that staff may not even know the language and the deeper cultural issues, and are forced to trust those whom they contract, since they cannot do the work themselves.

The other alternative is for processing by the UN - which has the same problems on the ground, and is compelled to entrust visas etc to locals who 'know the ground and the lingo' etc.... and may be compromised for the same reasons....

Any person who has fled a nation and taken up residence in a foreign nation - for example in Malaysia where many end up - gets zero support from the Malaysian government and cannot get a Malaysian visa...... so their option is a boat and a desperate voyage on the briny deep...

A genuine persecuted individual faces many Catch-22s ... I've had contact from people in Iran wishing to get out and asking me for advice on the best way to seek asylum .... many Afghans are seeking a way out before the Downfall following the withdrawal of 'Allied' troops .... I cannot recommend to them Australia or its Embassy.... leaky as a sieve .... not just a SIEV-X ....
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Re: Record Number Asylum Seekers Arriving By Air
Reply #125 - Oct 13th, 2019 at 4:29pm
 
Gordon wrote on Oct 10th, 2019 at 1:33pm:
Graps, not correct. The majority of boat arrivals flew from their counties to Malaysia/Indonesia for the sea leg.

There are more plane arrivals now because the sea route is effectively closed and they're being found  NOT to be refugees because plane arrivals must bring appropriate docs so can't make up porkies like sea arrivals did.

Documents obtained illegally from corrupt officials.

Criminals faking Malaysian identities to obtain Australia visas, exploiting cosy international relationship
(Excerpt quoted)
Quote:
Criminal syndicates are using counterfeiting networks in Malaysia to smuggle people into Australia, exploiting a relaxed visa agreement between the countries.

About 10,500 people from Malaysia are in Australia unlawfully — significantly more than any other country.

Malaysian passport holders enjoy an easier passage to Australia than people from almost anywhere else — a process that Department of Home Affairs officials have described as "the lightest touch."

But an ABC investigation has uncovered that people smugglers have helped nationals of other countries assume fake Malaysian identities so they can enter Australia the same way.

A Vietnamese man who spent five months in Malaysia awaiting documents to travel to Australia has spoken to the ABC about his ordeal.

Until last month, he was trapped with 37 other people from Vietnam in a hotel in Kuala Lumpur — all of whom had been promised safe passage to Australia and a job once they arrived.

"They said that it's easier here [in Malaysia] and I would not get my Australian visa if I submitted my application from Vietnam," the man told the ABC.

Citizens of most other ASEAN countries can travel to Malaysia without a visa. Once there, a passport can be fraudulently obtained in Malaysia for as little as $1300, according to Malaysian national security expert Andrin Raj.

Those ASEAN countries include Vietnam, Indonesia and the Philippines, whose citizens come under far more scrutiny when applying to travel to Australia than those from Malaysia.

This combination of an easy passage into Malaysia and an easy way to obtain false identification makes Malaysia the perfect staging ground for people smugglers, according to former Australian Border Force Commissioner Roman Quaedvlieg.

"It's a system that's corrupt inherently," Mr Quaedvlieg told the ABC.


Why do so many rightards not understand what's going on here?
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: Record Number Asylum Seekers Arriving By Air
Reply #126 - Oct 13th, 2019 at 6:35pm
 
Bam wrote on Oct 13th, 2019 at 4:29pm:
Gordon wrote on Oct 10th, 2019 at 1:33pm:
Graps, not correct. The majority of boat arrivals flew from their counties to Malaysia/Indonesia for the sea leg.

There are more plane arrivals now because the sea route is effectively closed and they're being found  NOT to be refugees because plane arrivals must bring appropriate docs so can't make up porkies like sea arrivals did.

Documents obtained illegally from corrupt officials.

Criminals faking Malaysian identities to obtain Australia visas, exploiting cosy international relationship
(Excerpt quoted)
Quote:
Criminal syndicates are using counterfeiting networks in Malaysia to smuggle people into Australia, exploiting a relaxed visa agreement between the countries.

About 10,500 people from Malaysia are in Australia unlawfully — significantly more than any other country.

Malaysian passport holders enjoy an easier passage to Australia than people from almost anywhere else — a process that Department of Home Affairs officials have described as "the lightest touch."

But an ABC investigation has uncovered that people smugglers have helped nationals of other countries assume fake Malaysian identities so they can enter Australia the same way.

A Vietnamese man who spent five months in Malaysia awaiting documents to travel to Australia has spoken to the ABC about his ordeal.

Until last month, he was trapped with 37 other people from Vietnam in a hotel in Kuala Lumpur — all of whom had been promised safe passage to Australia and a job once they arrived.

"They said that it's easier here [in Malaysia] and I would not get my Australian visa if I submitted my application from Vietnam," the man told the ABC.

Citizens of most other ASEAN countries can travel to Malaysia without a visa. Once there, a passport can be fraudulently obtained in Malaysia for as little as $1300, according to Malaysian national security expert Andrin Raj.

Those ASEAN countries include Vietnam, Indonesia and the Philippines, whose citizens come under far more scrutiny when applying to travel to Australia than those from Malaysia.

This combination of an easy passage into Malaysia and an easy way to obtain false identification makes Malaysia the perfect staging ground for people smugglers, according to former Australian Border Force Commissioner Roman Quaedvlieg.

"It's a system that's corrupt inherently," Mr Quaedvlieg told the ABC.


Why do so many rightards not understand what's going on here?


Exackery - that's in their new country of residence.... many also walked across the borders to get there...
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Dnarever
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Re: Record Number Asylum Seekers Arriving By Air
Reply #127 - Oct 13th, 2019 at 8:01pm
 
UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 11th, 2019 at 4:02pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 9th, 2019 at 11:16pm:
Catch-a 22 ... only the unreal claimants to refuge can get a visa and get on a plane.... the rest, the real ones, have to take a boat and their chances on a hostile sea and a hostile shore....


If you are not able to get away far enough from your persecution, you are considered a refugee candidate. If you have the means to get away from persecution, you are no longer able to be considered a refugee. That kind of Catch-22?


People smugglers can arrange credentials and a visa to get a claimant on a flight.
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rhino
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Re: Record Number Asylum Seekers Arriving By Air
Reply #128 - Oct 13th, 2019 at 10:59pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Oct 13th, 2019 at 8:01pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 11th, 2019 at 4:02pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 9th, 2019 at 11:16pm:
Catch-a 22 ... only the unreal claimants to refuge can get a visa and get on a plane.... the rest, the real ones, have to take a boat and their chances on a hostile sea and a hostile shore....


If you are not able to get away far enough from your persecution, you are considered a refugee candidate. If you have the means to get away from persecution, you are no longer able to be considered a refugee. That kind of Catch-22?


People smugglers can arrange credentials and a visa to get a claimant on a flight.
Really? Exactly how do they do this?
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: Record Number Asylum Seekers Arriving By Air
Reply #129 - Oct 14th, 2019 at 12:33am
 
rhino wrote on Oct 13th, 2019 at 10:59pm:
Dnarever wrote on Oct 13th, 2019 at 8:01pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 11th, 2019 at 4:02pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 9th, 2019 at 11:16pm:
Catch-a 22 ... only the unreal claimants to refuge can get a visa and get on a plane.... the rest, the real ones, have to take a boat and their chances on a hostile sea and a hostile shore....


If you are not able to get away far enough from your persecution, you are considered a refugee candidate. If you have the means to get away from persecution, you are no longer able to be considered a refugee. That kind of Catch-22?


People smugglers can arrange credentials and a visa to get a claimant on a flight.
Really? Exactly how do they do this?


Sorry - I didn't answer that... once they are in a 'safe' country, their need for refugee status dissolves... but it depends on how safe that country is in the long term, and it is well within the laws and accords etc to seek residence in a very safe place.  There are many descendants of WWII refugees living here - half way around the world.... so why is there a change of heart now?

It's not because they are sallow - we are introducing countless sallows all the time... so what is the real problem here?  Just politics.... how to re-design a new Sallow Peril and make the peons run and hide behind Mother government's skirts... and vote to keep the bastards in...
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Re: Record Number Asylum Seekers Arriving By Air
Reply #130 - Oct 14th, 2019 at 12:06pm
 
This rubbish thread is just about dying in is own trash.
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Bam
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Re: Record Number Asylum Seekers Arriving By Air
Reply #131 - Oct 14th, 2019 at 12:08pm
 
rhino wrote on Oct 13th, 2019 at 10:59pm:
Dnarever wrote on Oct 13th, 2019 at 8:01pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 11th, 2019 at 4:02pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 9th, 2019 at 11:16pm:
Catch-a 22 ... only the unreal claimants to refuge can get a visa and get on a plane.... the rest, the real ones, have to take a boat and their chances on a hostile sea and a hostile shore....


If you are not able to get away far enough from your persecution, you are considered a refugee candidate. If you have the means to get away from persecution, you are no longer able to be considered a refugee. That kind of Catch-22?


People smugglers can arrange credentials and a visa to get a claimant on a flight.
Really? Exactly how do they do this?

Read the thread. It's clear you have not done so. I posted an article outlining one such method three posts previous to yours.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Record Number Asylum Seekers Arriving By Air
Reply #132 - Oct 14th, 2019 at 12:10pm
 
Bam wrote on Oct 13th, 2019 at 4:29pm:
Gordon wrote on Oct 10th, 2019 at 1:33pm:
Graps, not correct. The majority of boat arrivals flew from their counties to Malaysia/Indonesia for the sea leg.

There are more plane arrivals now because the sea route is effectively closed and they're being found  NOT to be refugees because plane arrivals must bring appropriate docs so can't make up porkies like sea arrivals did.

Documents obtained illegally from corrupt officials.

Criminals faking Malaysian identities to obtain Australia visas, exploiting cosy international relationship
(Excerpt quoted)
Quote:
Criminal syndicates are using counterfeiting networks in Malaysia to smuggle people into Australia, exploiting a relaxed visa agreement between the countries.

About 10,500 people from Malaysia are in Australia unlawfully — significantly more than any other country.

Malaysian passport holders enjoy an easier passage to Australia than people from almost anywhere else — a process that Department of Home Affairs officials have described as "the lightest touch."

But an ABC investigation has uncovered that people smugglers have helped nationals of other countries assume fake Malaysian identities so they can enter Australia the same way.

A Vietnamese man who spent five months in Malaysia awaiting documents to travel to Australia has spoken to the ABC about his ordeal.

Until last month, he was trapped with 37 other people from Vietnam in a hotel in Kuala Lumpur — all of whom had been promised safe passage to Australia and a job once they arrived.

"They said that it's easier here [in Malaysia] and I would not get my Australian visa if I submitted my application from Vietnam," the man told the ABC.

Citizens of most other ASEAN countries can travel to Malaysia without a visa. Once there, a passport can be fraudulently obtained in Malaysia for as little as $1300, according to Malaysian national security expert Andrin Raj.

Those ASEAN countries include Vietnam, Indonesia and the Philippines, whose citizens come under far more scrutiny when applying to travel to Australia than those from Malaysia.

This combination of an easy passage into Malaysia and an easy way to obtain false identification makes Malaysia the perfect staging ground for people smugglers, according to former Australian Border Force Commissioner Roman Quaedvlieg.

"It's a system that's corrupt inherently," Mr Quaedvlieg told the ABC.


Why do so many rightards not understand what's going on here?


They don't want to believe it.

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juliar
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Re: Record Number Asylum Seekers Arriving By Air
Reply #133 - Oct 14th, 2019 at 12:13pm
 
A light bulb moment!! 

Is Gweggy an ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT???? 

Is that why he keeps raving and ranting about Labor's Illegal Invaders ?
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rhino
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Re: Record Number Asylum Seekers Arriving By Air
Reply #134 - Oct 14th, 2019 at 2:00pm
 
Bam wrote on Oct 14th, 2019 at 12:08pm:
rhino wrote on Oct 13th, 2019 at 10:59pm:
Dnarever wrote on Oct 13th, 2019 at 8:01pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 11th, 2019 at 4:02pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 9th, 2019 at 11:16pm:
Catch-a 22 ... only the unreal claimants to refuge can get a visa and get on a plane.... the rest, the real ones, have to take a boat and their chances on a hostile sea and a hostile shore....


If you are not able to get away far enough from your persecution, you are considered a refugee candidate. If you have the means to get away from persecution, you are no longer able to be considered a refugee. That kind of Catch-22?


People smugglers can arrange credentials and a visa to get a claimant on a flight.
Really? Exactly how do they do this?

Read the thread. It's clear you have not done so. I posted an article outlining one such method three posts previous to yours.
Its all previously been shown to be absolute  nonsense,  the whole "people smuggling by legitimate visa" thing was shown to be a media set up where the interviewees were paid to say such things. Logically, it doesnt stand up to scrutiny. You people need to stop falling for this media fabricated nonsense and start using critical thinking.
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