How customers are being slugged $33,000 to repair cars only worth a fraction of the price - and why they can't travel long journeys.........

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7527339/Nissan-Leaf-owner-Phillip-Carls...

The newer Nissan Leaf is much better What improvement's do we ever see on fossil fool cars in terms of reliability and economy ? Answer = NONE !!!

happens with fossil fool clunkers every day ! Nothing new here socko LOL

What is your point socko ? Do you honestly think by continuously posting car accidents of Tesla's you are going to send the company broke ?

No one is going to take any notice of a deadbeat loser from Australia who couldn't replace a set of torch batteries in a torch LOL

Bobby. wrote on Oct 15^th, 2019 at 9:17am:


socko is desperately trying to put Tesla out of business LOL

What sort of idiotic fool would talk about petrol/diesel cars in a thread about electric cars ?  Oh yes the demented wacko Greeny Scunge the Greeny with the undeveloped mind of a child in an adult body who insists on displaying her gross ignorance of just about everything.

Australians are far too aware of the very inconvenient limitations of these useless unsafe dangerous pollution spewing electric toy "cars" and don't want to risk their lives getting incinerated and killed by clouds of poisonous gas given off when a lithium fire bomb battery explodes in a fiery inferno. 

Or if it is a Tesla then having a wheel fall off when the crummy suspension breaks or being hurled into something when the dangerous heap suddenly accelerates.

Already China is swinging away from the electric toy "cars" towards the REAL future - HYDROGEN which can power big and small vehicles with quick refuel.

juliar wrote on Oct 15^th, 2019 at 11:17am:


Really !! You don't own a smart phone or laptop with Lithium Ion batteries ??

Also checkout the rare earths used in catalytic converters on every fossil fool car

Who's the hypocrite now socko ???

Got ya socko !!

Now the fiery topic.



Why do electric cars catch fire?
September 10, 2019


tesla S on fire.

And how does the risk compare with conventional cars?
Combustion. It's not just what makes cars go, it also makes them go up – in flames.

The general news media is full of tales concerning electric vehicles (EVs) catching fire, but internal-combustion cars are also known to catch fire. Are EVs more prone to burst into flame than conventional cars?

 
And what causes fire in EVs? Can it be prevented in future designs of EV, taking all the red-alert risk out of these green-lit cars?

There's a growing perception that any item – not just cars – powered by lithium-ion batteries can be susceptible to 'thermal runaway', a state in which an exothermic process accelerates the build-up of heat (in a battery, specifically, in the case of EVs). Without any means of controlling the process, the battery could catch fire.

This has happened to batteries on-board airliners and in smartphones and laptop computers, so there's no reason EVs should be any different.

Nevertheless, modern EVs do come with thermal management systems, of one sort or another, to ensure batteries only operate in a safe, temperate environment. Car companies are also developing systems to limit the flow of electronics if there's any danger of overheating.

Despite this, however, EVs are still catching fire. And in some cases it's due to thermal runaway – but not all cases.


The causes and cases
Although many presume that battery fires in EVs are directly related to thermal runaway, companies like Tesla have highlighted the other factors that have resulted in vehicle fires specifically involving any of the American brand's products.

These have included crashes, where damaged wiring has led to a short circuit, for instance, flash floods where saltwater has inundated the battery compartment and shorted the circuitry, and in one memorable case someone in the car firing a bullet into the battery pack through the floor.

If there's one major difference between the sort of fire that engulfs an EV and one that takes out an internal-combustion car, it's this: The EV fire doesn't necessarily break out immediately after a catastrophic event occurs. Warning lights in the panel and smoke from underneath the car are strong indicators the driver of an EV should pull over immediately and leave the car. There have been very few casualties associated with EV fires. Usually, fatalities and injuries have resulted from the preceding crash that led to the fire.

To illustrate the sort of lengthy timeframe for fire to gain a foothold in an EV, a Chevrolet Volt crash-tested by America's National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) some years ago burst into flames after nearly a month of sitting in a holding yard because the car's electrical system had not been isolated by the crash-test technicians.

It took three weeks for the damaged battery and electrical system to build up enough heat for the battery's chemicals to ignite.

A list of cases (not an exhaustive list) has been published in the Wikipedia entry for 'Plug-in electric vehicle fire incidents'. For the majority of incidents published the battery was not directly the cause of the fire.


What the US gov says
NHTSA has conducted a study into vehicle fires that involved EVs with on-board lithium-ion batteries. In its report, NHTSA noted that car companies have developed 'current limiting devices' to reduce the likelihood of thermal runaway, but the safety authority also raises the concern that lithium-ion battery technology is far from mature.

Work being undertaken by car companies and battery manufacturers to extend the life and performance of Li-ion batteries, while also reducing size and weight, could lead to an upturn in vehicle battery fires.

That said, however, NHTSA is confident that EVs are inherently safer from fire risk than conventional cars, as observed in this paragraph:

Regarding the risk of electrochemical failure, the report concludes that the propensity and severity of fires and explosions from the accidental ignition of flammable electrolytic solvents used in Li-ion battery systems are anticipated to be somewhat comparable to or perhaps slightly less than those for gasoline or diesel vehicular fuels. The overall consequences for Li-ion batteries are expected to be less because of the much smaller amounts of flammable solvent released and burning in a catastrophic failure situation.

NHTSA, which attributes some vehicle fires to manufacturing defects and misuse or abuse, has categorised the various causes of fires in 'plug-in' vehicles (both plug-in hybrids and battery-electric vehicles) as follows:

• Electrical short, overcharging, or overdischarging,
• Exposure to high temperatures or charging at cold temperatures,
• Excessive shock, impact, compression (crush), or penetration,
• Corrosive and aggressive agents contaminating internal components (eg: saltwater)
• Excess cycling, electrochemical component breakdown, fracture and crack growth,
• Cumulative abuse and service causes,
• Errors in design, manufacturing, operation, and maintenance.

https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/why-do-electric-cars-catch-fire-12...

Why do fossil fool cars catch on fire socko ? Hint petrol is very flammable LOL

juliar wrote on Oct 20^th, 2019 at 4:58pm:


likewise socko. Nobody reads any of your copy and paste bullshit LOL

juliar wrote on Oct 21^st, 2019 at 11:55am:


So that's why you want to use hydrogen instead of oil to power cars because you don't believe the "DoomsDay Greeny Rent A Crowder on NewStart" ?? LOL

Bobby. wrote on Oct 15^th, 2019 at 9:31am:


And you blobby are undoubtably a FOOL.

juliar wrote on Oct 21^st, 2019 at 6:24pm:


but you still want to use hydrogen generated from renewables LOL

good onya socko. One day you will make sense LOL

golly gosh socko you sound like someone who frequents church each Sunday LOL

Andrew Hall According to a recent study EVs result in much the same carbon emissions as petrol vehicles, in the Australian context. Hybrids were the best by far and make much more sense in Australia.


Pieter Blackie And it takes 3 hours to charge a Tesla 3 at 30A so the generator will use at least 10l per hour of diesel so 30l of diesel


Cusquena Farm In truth I think EV’s are the future. But not yet. The energy density of batteries simply isn’t there yet. Nor have they solved the damage done to the batteries by quick charging. I believe that one day they will dominate the market, but not yet.

They also still lack the practical range and payload for typical non urban users. (Like me. Just exactly where are those EV 4x4 utes with 3+ tonne towing capacity and 600 km range?) For now they’re good for Norway or Auckland but not outback OZ.

I’ve ridden in Tesla’s taxis in DXB and like them, they’re nice. In fact I seek them out to encourage EV culture, and quiz the operators when appropriate.

But unless you’re in a country with mostly renewable electricity generation they’re little more than an expensive, mobile virtue signal. If you can tell me you exclusively charge your EV from your own solar / wind powered charging station at home, then great. Otherwise for now I’d prefer you get your need for approval elsewhere.


Christos Fotinakos EV's great for cities and shorter distances. I'd love to see the inner-city's elites reaction to a proposed law that everyone who resides within 15km of a capital city's centres must exclusively own an EV by 2022.

They are the ones who were behind the Labor EV policy, let the law apply to them. It would help with noise and air quality in the inner-city even if it means a few greenies getting knocked over.


Tanya Van Der Kamp Absolutely ridiculous to think EV is greener. It won't be for a very very very long time if at all!

The uneducated ignoramus shows off her legendary ignorance.

juliar wrote on Nov 26^th, 2019 at 3:41pm:


Yeh you are right socko. Something that doesn't yet exist can't possibly have any competition LOL

The system is catching up with the "cheap" electric toy cars.

Highway use charges or Road Tax will soon be levied on electric cars based on distance traveled.

And electricity charges are lifting to catch out the child slavery in the Congo supporting electric car owners who charge at home.

And the thrill of arriving at a public charging station and finding 4 cars in front of you and copping a charge for your charge when you eventually get there 3 hours later.

And this is just the beginning of the Hell on Wheels of owning an unsafe dangerous pollution spewing very inconvenient electric toy car.

Come on Hydrogen and save the world!!!!



PG&E Raises Costs for Electric Cars by 25%. Nobody Blinks.
Brad Templeton Nov 19, 2019, 08:00am


A time of use based electric meterMOMENT EDITORIAL/GETTY IMAGES

There’s been very little coverage of something that you might imagine would be a big change in the world of electric cars.

Northern California is definitely the world’s EV capital (outside China) with the most cars on offer and sold, and of course it is the home of Tesla. The primary electric utility there is PG&E. Recently, PG&E has mostly been in the news for turning off power to avoid starting fires, and starting them anyway.

Owners of electric vehicles (EVs) in California can and should sign up for a special EV power pricing plan. This plan offers cheaper power at night, and very expensive power in the peak part of the day in the later afternoon and evening. While all California power prices are high, the summer off-peak price of the original plan was only 1/4 of the peak price, and around half the price most customers would pay with one of the regular and non time-based plans. If you’re charging an electric car at home, it’s the obvious pick in almost all cases.

November 1, PG&E changed that off-peak price. Previously it ran about 13 cents/kwh off-peak, and as much as 48 cents/kwh on-peak. Off-peak times ran from 11pm to 7am on weekdays, and 9pm to 3pm on weekends. Any EV owner with a typical “level 2” charger will fully charge their car in well under those 8 night hours on all but the most extreme driving days.



The new plan has advantages for people who charge at “level 1” with ordinary 115v plugs. While level 1 has just enough power to just restore the 40 miles/day the average car drives in an 8 hour night, on those days of more driving, owners had to pay a bit more or let their car stay low and recover the next night or on the weekend. Turns out that almost always works, unless people have a long commute. With the new plan, cars that don’t leave in the morning can recover more. But it’s a pretty minor benefit.


While some Tesla owners get free supercharging on road trips, they otherwise pay around 28 cents/kwh ... [+]ASSOCIATED PRESS



It may simply be the fact that the car’s electricity price is buried in the larger monthly electricity bill, and not paid at the pump like gasoline. EV owners can elect to install a 2nd electric meter just for their car (and get the cheaper old price if they do) but this does not make financial sense because an extra meter is expensive.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradtempleton/2019/11/19/pge-raises-costs-for-elect...