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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 131540 Gender:	Re: 9/11 Jumpers Reply #15 - Sep 12^th, 2019 at 8:04pm freediver wrote on Sep 12^th, 2019 at 6:23pm: I think people don't talk about it because they don't want to think about it. It's a conversation stopper. Indeed. It's the stuff of nightmares. I wouldn't wish that on anyone in the world. It must have been horrific, but I can certainly understand why they jumped.
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UnSubRocky

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Re: 9/11 Jumpers
Reply #16 - Sep 12^th, 2019 at 10:27pm

Gnads wrote on Sep 12^th, 2019 at 8:00pm:

No one risked paralysis jumping out of those towers.

It was certain death ... not one lived.

You don't know what happened in the moments before they jumped. We can only surmise that the fires had them trapped to the point that they either die burning. Else they fall to their deaths (or even chance cheating death by jumping, however remotely possible). I think the likely thought process was that they were trying to commit suicide rather than burn to death.

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Laugh till you cry Gold Member Offline Posts: 13879 In your happy place Gender:	Re: 9/11 Jumpers Reply #17 - Sep 12^th, 2019 at 10:30pm Americans are religious extremists. They believe suicide is sin and that the jumpers should have accepted incineration or crushing in a collapse to save their souls.
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Re: 9/11 Jumpers
Reply #18 - Sep 12^th, 2019 at 10:33pm

Laugh till you cry wrote on Sep 12^th, 2019 at 10:30pm:

Americans are religious extremists. They believe suicide is sin and that the jumpers should have accepted incineration or crushing in a collapse to save their souls.

When your life is on the line, religion goes out of the window. Religion only becomes a concern when you have accepted your mortality.

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Laugh till you cry

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Re: 9/11 Jumpers
Reply #19 - Sep 12^th, 2019 at 10:34pm

UnSubRocky wrote on Sep 12^th, 2019 at 10:33pm:

Laugh till you cry wrote on Sep 12^th, 2019 at 10:30pm:

Americans are religious extremists. They believe suicide is sin and that the jumpers should have accepted incineration or crushing in a collapse to save their souls.

When your life is on the line, religion goes out of the window. Religion only becomes a concern when you have accepted your mortality.

Unsubrocky is yet to accept his mortality?

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AiA

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Re: 9/11 Jumpers
Reply #20 - Sep 13^th, 2019 at 12:02am

The_Barnacle wrote on Sep 12^th, 2019 at 1:04pm:

AiA wrote on Sep 12^th, 2019 at 4:33am:

What is fascinating to me is that American's won't talk about the "Jumpers," that to them there is some kind of horrible shame in having jumped from the towers instead of dying of smoke and fire. I see it as courage.

I guess it is a cultural thing.
And i suspect that in America the jumpers will be erased from history because they don't fit their preferred narrative.
My take on it is that it shows just how hellish the conditions were inside the building that - for many people - jumping out became the preferred option

I think you are on to something ...

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AiA Gold Member Offline Posts: 18405 Gender:	Re: 9/11 Jumpers Reply #21 - Sep 13^th, 2019 at 12:03am Laugh till you cry wrote on Sep 12^th, 2019 at 10:30pm: Americans are religious extremists. They believe suicide is sin and that the jumpers should have accepted incineration or crushing in a collapse to save their souls. I hadn't considered that - jumping = suicide = sin
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AiA

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Re: 9/11 Jumpers
Reply #22 - Sep 13^th, 2019 at 12:05am

Gnads wrote on Sep 12^th, 2019 at 6:31pm:

tickleandrose wrote on Sep 12^th, 2019 at 12:52pm:

But the issue is that they were in a burning building. And so the air currents and temperature variations make the jump very hazardous. Chances are even if the parachute opens up, the wind current would tip it anyway. And then you have to ask yourself, are you high enough to get enough speed to ensure
1. You are far enough away from the toxic smoke, and fire,
2. Do you have enough height to gain speed and fully open the parachute. - for example, you survival chance is more if you jump from a 3 storey build without a parachute than with one that dont open only to increase your mass and hence force of impact.
3. Where are you going to land as your eyes can see below the smoke.
4. If there is anyone else jumping at the same time.

No one who jumped from the burning towers had a parachute.

So what the hell are you on about?

Some of them tried to fashion parachutes out of curtains, etc ...

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AiA Gold Member Offline Posts: 18405 Gender:	Re: 9/11 Jumpers Reply #23 - Sep 13^th, 2019 at 4:52am
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UnSubRocky

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Re: 9/11 Jumpers
Reply #24 - Sep 13^th, 2019 at 7:40am

Laugh till you cry wrote on Sep 12^th, 2019 at 10:34pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Sep 12^th, 2019 at 10:33pm:

Laugh till you cry wrote on Sep 12^th, 2019 at 10:30pm:

Americans are religious extremists. They believe suicide is sin and that the jumpers should have accepted incineration or crushing in a collapse to save their souls.

When your life is on the line, religion goes out of the window. Religion only becomes a concern when you have accepted your mortality.

Unsubrocky is yet to accept his mortality?

I suppose I have not.

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Gnads

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Re: 9/11 Jumpers
Reply #25 - Sep 13^th, 2019 at 8:39am

UnSubRocky wrote on Sep 12^th, 2019 at 10:27pm:

Gnads wrote on Sep 12^th, 2019 at 8:00pm:

No one risked paralysis jumping out of those towers.

It was certain death ... not one lived.

You don't know what happened in the moments before they jumped. We can only surmise that the fires had them trapped to the point that they either die burning. Else they fall to their deaths (or even chance cheating death by jumping, however remotely possible). I think the likely thought process was that they were trying to commit suicide rather than burn to death.

i never mentioned anything about knowing their mind set before they jumped.

What I said was they didn't risk paralysis(as you mentioned) because it was certain death from the heights they jumped ... no hope of survival.

And of course they obviously chose to die that way rather than burn.

What is wrong with you?

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Re: 9/11 Jumpers
Reply #26 - Sep 14^th, 2019 at 12:37am

Gnads wrote on Sep 13^th, 2019 at 8:39am:

UnSubRocky wrote on Sep 12^th, 2019 at 10:27pm:

Gnads wrote on Sep 12^th, 2019 at 8:00pm:

No one risked paralysis jumping out of those towers.

It was certain death ... not one lived.

You don't know what happened in the moments before they jumped. We can only surmise that the fires had them trapped to the point that they either die burning. Else they fall to their deaths (or even chance cheating death by jumping, however remotely possible). I think the likely thought process was that they were trying to commit suicide rather than burn to death.

i never mentioned anything about knowing their mind set before they jumped.

What I said was they didn't risk paralysis(as you mentioned) because it was certain death from the heights they jumped ... no hope of survival.

And of course they obviously chose to die that way rather than burn.

What is wrong with you?

Here I was thinking that you were going to make a good post in response to what I wrote. But, then you come back with that chip on your shoulder attitude. I was not having a go at you saying that you claimed to know what they were thinking. I was proposing a likely conclusion as to why they would have jumped.

It is likely that those jumpers would have considered the possibility of surviving the fall. Perhaps they witnessed the flames engulf their co-workers before taking hold of the office they were located. I would not have known the circumstances a person would witness that would drive them to commit suicide. But, the possibility of people being so hysterical or overwhelmed by the situation that they would consider trying to survive a no-exit case by jumping is a logical conclusion.

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AiA Gold Member Offline Posts: 18405 Gender:	Re: 9/11 Jumpers Reply #27 - Sep 14^th, 2019 at 12:56am Youtube seems to make some videos hard to find -
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Gnads

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Re: 9/11 Jumpers
Reply #28 - Sep 14^th, 2019 at 7:29am

UnSubRocky wrote on Sep 14^th, 2019 at 12:37am:

Gnads wrote on Sep 13^th, 2019 at 8:39am:

UnSubRocky wrote on Sep 12^th, 2019 at 10:27pm:

Gnads wrote on Sep 12^th, 2019 at 8:00pm:

No one risked paralysis jumping out of those towers.

It was certain death ... not one lived.

You don't know what happened in the moments before they jumped. We can only surmise that the fires had them trapped to the point that they either die burning. Else they fall to their deaths (or even chance cheating death by jumping, however remotely possible). I think the likely thought process was that they were trying to commit suicide rather than burn to death.

i never mentioned anything about knowing their mind set before they jumped.

What I said was they didn't risk paralysis(as you mentioned) because it was certain death from the heights they jumped ... no hope of survival.

And of course they obviously chose to die that way rather than burn.

What is wrong with you?

Here I was thinking that you were going to make a good post in response to what I wrote. But, then you come back with that chip on your shoulder attitude. I was not having a go at you saying that you claimed to know what they were thinking. I was proposing a likely conclusion as to why they would have jumped.

It is likely that those jumpers would have considered the possibility of surviving the fall. Perhaps they witnessed the flames engulf their co-workers before taking hold of the office they were located. I would not have known the circumstances a person would witness that would drive them to commit suicide. But, the possibility of people being so hysterical or overwhelmed by the situation that they would consider trying to survive a no-exit case by jumping is a logical conclusion.

That's right no one knows what went through their minds prior to the decision to jump ..I doubt they considered paralysis Roll Eyes

.. it's all just useless supposition.

In most cases I'd say just like a moth on a windscreen the last thing that went through their minds was their arse. Tongue

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Baronvonrort Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17499 Gender:	Re: 9/11 Jumpers Reply #29 - Sep 14^th, 2019 at 10:36am freediver wrote on Sep 12^th, 2019 at 6:23pm: I think people don't talk about it because they don't want to think about it. It's a conversation stopper. Most don't want to talk about the Allahu Akbars that motivated these muslims to fly planes into buildings killing thousands of people.
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