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Aboriginal DreamTime (Read 4644 times)
Johnnie
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Re: Aboriginal DreamTime
Reply #30 - Sep 19th, 2019 at 2:23pm
 
Jasin wrote on Sep 19th, 2019 at 1:49pm:
Johnnie wrote on Sep 19th, 2019 at 1:29pm:
The Abbos were totally isolated from the rest of the world and they still managed to believe in spirits and stuff, it seems to be a human condition.


For the last 1000 years though, maybe a tad more possibly.
They have been 'trading' or just 'experiencing' other peoples from other lands. The Moluccans often 'traded' and even 'traded' with Australia on behalf of Chinese and other peoples, of that period. Portuguese visited and even the early Polynesians popped in for a quick Hello (now that they knew this BIG island was already populated) 800 years ago when they left Asia and explored a mostly empty Oceania.
The British were 'Johnny Come Lately's'. Even the French nearly pipped them. Most of this
Sahulian
Region came under the
SPANISH
Claim, in which Portuguese intrusion was tolerated. Australia is still 'legally' claimed by the Spanish. The British claim is default and illegal (like a Criminal).
______________________________________
Moluccans are the Austronesian-speaking and Papuan-speaking ethnic groups indigenous to the Maluku Islands, also called the Moluccas, which have been part of Indonesia since 1950. As such, "Moluccans" is used as a blanket term for various ethnic and linguistic groups inhabiting the islands.
The original inhabitants of the Maluku Islands were Melanesian, or Papuan, in origin. However, the migration of the Austronesian people changed the situation drastically. Austronesian peoples displaced and partially assimilated the native Melanesian population around 2000 BCE. Melanesian features are strongest in the island of Halmahera and its surrounding islands, where the majority of the population still speaks West Papuan (non-Austronesian) languages of the North Halmahera branch.
Later added to were some Dutch, Chinese, Portuguese, Spanish, Arabian and English genes due to colonization and marriage with foreign traders in the Middle Ages or with European soldiers during World War. Small number of German descendants added to Moluccan population especially in Ambon along with arrival of Protestant Missionaries since 15th century.
A small population of Moluccans (~45000 ) live in the Netherlands. This group mainly consists of the descendants of KNIL soldiers who had originally planned to come the Netherlands only temporarily, but were eventually forced to stay. (See Moluccan diaspora.) The remainder consists of Moluccans serving in the Dutch navy and their descendants, as well as some who came to the Netherlands from western New Guinea after it was handed over to Indonesia. However, the vast majority of Moluccans still live in the Moluccas and the other surrounding region such as Papua, West Timor, North Sulawesi, Bali and Java

Yes but dreamtime goes back 40,000 years plus, and the spirits that go with it.

They probably inherited this condition from deep within Africa.
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rhino
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Re: Aboriginal DreamTime
Reply #31 - Sep 19th, 2019 at 2:31pm
 
Just to clarify. "The Dreamtime" is a term coined by western people to describe and encompass Aboriginal beliefs. It is not an Aboriginal term.
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Jasin
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Re: Aboriginal DreamTime
Reply #32 - Sep 19th, 2019 at 3:20pm
 
rhino wrote on Sep 19th, 2019 at 2:31pm:
Just to clarify. "The Dreamtime" is a term coined by western people to describe and encompass Aboriginal beliefs. It is not an Aboriginal term.


Is it really?
I could be lead to believe, considering Nippon gets called Japan by Westerners and half the fish of the Ocean get called various forms of Elephants, Rhinoceroses, Lions, Tigers, etc as well. Sort of like they ran out of imagination and new names.

So I wouldn't be surprised if the word 'DreamTime' is an abstracted 'Anglo' wording?

What then is the real 'wording', even just a few - if many different tribes had different names.
Koori are just 'one tribe' politically cashing in on all the Tribes (Like if the Apache claimed to be 'all' the Indians).
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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rhino
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Re: Aboriginal DreamTime
Reply #33 - Sep 19th, 2019 at 3:46pm
 
Jasin wrote on Sep 19th, 2019 at 3:20pm:
rhino wrote on Sep 19th, 2019 at 2:31pm:
Just to clarify. "The Dreamtime" is a term coined by western people to describe and encompass Aboriginal beliefs. It is not an Aboriginal term.


Is it really?
I could be lead to believe, considering Nippon gets called Japan by Westerners and half the fish of the Ocean get called various forms of Elephants, Rhinoceroses, Lions, Tigers, etc as well. Sort of like they ran out of imagination and new names.

So I wouldn't be surprised if the word 'DreamTime' is an abstracted 'Anglo' wording?

What then is the real 'wording', even just a few - if many different tribes had different names.
Koori are just 'one tribe' politically cashing in on all the Tribes (Like if the Apache claimed to be 'all' the Indians).
maybe its time for you to do some actual reading instead of making stuff up.
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Johnnie
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Re: Aboriginal DreamTime
Reply #34 - Sep 19th, 2019 at 5:38pm
 
rhino wrote on Sep 19th, 2019 at 2:31pm:
Just to clarify. "The Dreamtime" is a term coined by western people to describe and encompass Aboriginal beliefs. It is not an Aboriginal term.

What is the Aboriginal term for dreamtime? did all the tribes have a collective term for dream time or was it just a given.
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rhino
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Re: Aboriginal DreamTime
Reply #35 - Sep 19th, 2019 at 8:18pm
 
Johnnie wrote on Sep 19th, 2019 at 5:38pm:
rhino wrote on Sep 19th, 2019 at 2:31pm:
Just to clarify. "The Dreamtime" is a term coined by western people to describe and encompass Aboriginal beliefs. It is not an Aboriginal term.

What is the Aboriginal term for dreamtime? did all the tribes have a collective term for dream time or was it just a given.
Thats my point, the Aboriginals have no concept of "dreamtime" , its a term coined by Europeans to classify Aboriginal stories and their creation myths.
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Johnnie
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Re: Aboriginal DreamTime
Reply #36 - Sep 19th, 2019 at 8:45pm
 
rhino wrote on Sep 19th, 2019 at 8:18pm:
Johnnie wrote on Sep 19th, 2019 at 5:38pm:
rhino wrote on Sep 19th, 2019 at 2:31pm:
Just to clarify. "The Dreamtime" is a term coined by western people to describe and encompass Aboriginal beliefs. It is not an Aboriginal term.

What is the Aboriginal term for dreamtime? did all the tribes have a collective term for dream time or was it just a given.
Thats my point, the Aboriginals have no concept of "dreamtime" , its a term coined by Europeans to classify Aboriginal stories and their creation myths.

That's putting so called dreamtime on an entirely new plane.
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Sprintcyclist
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Re: Aboriginal DreamTime
Reply #37 - Sep 19th, 2019 at 11:20pm
 
Johnnie wrote on Sep 19th, 2019 at 5:38pm:
rhino wrote on Sep 19th, 2019 at 2:31pm:
Just to clarify. "The Dreamtime" is a term coined by western people to describe and encompass Aboriginal beliefs. It is not an Aboriginal term.

What is the Aboriginal term for dreamtime? did all the tribes have a collective term for dream time or was it just a given.


yes, is 'dreamtime' an australian thing?
Does it encompass 'walkabout'.

I'ld think, during a walkabout you could find/enter your dreamtime.

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Modern Classic Right Wing
 
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Jasin
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Re: Aboriginal DreamTime
Reply #38 - Sep 21st, 2019 at 8:01pm
 
I dunno?
I'm kinda in two minds at the moment (Rhino has a safari rug in his lounge of a Dead White Gun Hunter, in his mind  Cheesy)

So if the Colonialists (That's American Free Settlers too) coined the term 'Dreamtime' and it was never a word that the Aboriginal people used to label all their 'beliefs'.
Then surely the Colonialists or 'anyone' has bothered to ask the Aboriginals if there is such a
MONOTHEISTIC
existence of their beliefs?
Because that's what the Colonialists (Pentacostals?) have then tried to do with the term 'Dreamtime'. Make it ONE concept (God).

So then - the Aboriginals had no Monotheism and their beliefs were all separate entities.
Amazing!!!!

Considering of what I see up in the Northern Hemisphere of 'Beliefs'... Monotheism is really not making a good impression.

Take into account the Rainbow Serpent was a popular Belief among many Clan territories, but maybe not entirely by 'every' Clan. Still shows a lack of Monotheism.
And something the Colonialists corrupted with the word 'Dreamtime'.


Ahh - So I'm just making this up apparently.
Maybe I can just think for myself and am not left Lost in Translation.  Wink

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Jasin
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Re: Aboriginal DreamTime
Reply #39 - Sep 21st, 2019 at 8:02pm
 
All that Monotheism can offer Australia is a
THUNDERDOME
existence.  Roll Eyes
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Mattyfisk
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Re: Aboriginal DreamTime
Reply #40 - Sep 23rd, 2019 at 8:31pm
 
Johnnie wrote on Sep 19th, 2019 at 1:29pm:
The Abbos were totally isolated from the rest of the world and they still managed to believe in spirits and stuff, it seems to be a human condition.


It does indeed. And from a Victorian anthropological viewpoint, these are stages in economic development - from hunter-gatherer to agrarian to urban civilisation. Animist to pagan to monotheist. Marx added another stage: socialist/atheist, although the socialist proletariat would supposedly need to be liberated from such "opiates."

In some places, this has happened. Parts of Eastern Europe have small percentages of believers left: The Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Croatia, Slovenia, etc.

Russia and Poland, however, are the opposite. Religion is deeply engrained in their populations. What made the people of Russia and Poland so believing?

And what makes animist beliefs prevail in places like Thailand, Burma and South India? Or even pockets of Europe, like Iceland?

I'm curious. What human conditions preserve these beliefs?
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Jasin
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Re: Aboriginal DreamTime
Reply #41 - Sep 23rd, 2019 at 8:34pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 23rd, 2019 at 8:31pm:
Johnnie wrote on Sep 19th, 2019 at 1:29pm:
The Abbos were totally isolated from the rest of the world and they still managed to believe in spirits and stuff, it seems to be a human condition.


It does indeed. And from a Victorian anthropological viewpoint, these are stages in economic development - from hunter-gatherer to agrarian to urban civilisation. Animist to pagan to monotheist. Marx added another stage: socialist/atheist, although the socialist proletariat would need to be liberated from their opiate.

In some places, this has happened. Parts of Eastern Europe have very few believers left: The Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Croatia, Slovenia, etc.

Russia and Poland, however, are the opposite. Religion is deeply engrained in their populations. What made the people of Russia and Poland so believing?

And what makes animist beliefs prevail in places like Thailand, Burma and South India? Or even pockets of Europe, like Iceland?

I'm curious. What human conditions preserve these beliefs?


Good post.  Cool
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Mattyfisk
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Re: Aboriginal DreamTime
Reply #42 - Sep 23rd, 2019 at 8:38pm
 
If animist practices can't be cured by a thousand years of Buddhism, how does socialism do it in a hundred?

Or, on the other hand, not?

Questions questions.
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Kittler
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Re: Aboriginal DreamTime
Reply #43 - Sep 23rd, 2019 at 8:53pm
 
Did Abos have pottery?
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Jasin
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Re: Aboriginal DreamTime
Reply #44 - Sep 25th, 2019 at 8:21pm
 
"Kittler. I've thought over it (nanosecond) and I have come to the conclusion that I can not reply to your comment."

- HAL 9000
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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