Australian Politics Forum - Pell Court of Appeal Decision

cods

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Re: Pell Court of Appeal Decision
Reply #75 - Aug 18^th, 2019 at 9:53am

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 17^th, 2019 at 8:40pm:

It's what I expected - I'm no Catholic and no adherent to any religion, but I thought the entire premise on which the conviction was made was flawed.

As I've said - he may have been guilty of not blasting bastards for abuse and not acting, but he wasn't on trial for that.

His trial wasnt fair or correct imo...hes paying for all the Churches flaws and mistakes over centuries..

I think that is why he has put himself through this...

the sacrifice if you like

I think most on here know how I feel about paedophiles it isnt a secret but for the life of me I cannot see this man doing what is claimed in this case......as a by stander the evidence didnt stack up...

yes he is and was judged on the cover ups of the past and so he should be....his allegiance was to the church rather than the children....a huge mistake...

but I would rather he spent time in jail with fact and truth.....rather than a miserable judgement that is flawed...

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cods

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Re: Pell Court of Appeal Decision
Reply #76 - Aug 18^th, 2019 at 9:55am

Setanta wrote on Aug 18^th, 2019 at 12:26am:

mothra wrote on Aug 18^th, 2019 at 12:20am:

Setanta wrote on Aug 18^th, 2019 at 12:18am:

mothra wrote on Aug 18^th, 2019 at 12:16am:

Setanta wrote on Aug 18^th, 2019 at 12:14am:

mothra wrote on Aug 18^th, 2019 at 12:10am:

Setanta wrote on Aug 17^th, 2019 at 11:58pm:

mothra wrote on Aug 17^th, 2019 at 10:53pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2019 at 6:09pm:

When a priest rapes a child does anyone think they really believe in God???

When a church covers up child sexual abuse they have lost all credibility and use religion to hide behind!!!

Pell is part of an organisation that is a criminal cartel....The Catholic Church is evil incarnate and Pell is it's pin up paedophile!!!

Smiley

Such evil deeds could religion prompt.
Lucretius (96 BC - 55 BC), De Rerum Natura

Phil, i know your post is days old but Seatanta has instructed that if i';m to have any integrity at all i must venture to comment upon what you said.

While i agree that the powers behind the church are about as far from altruistic as it is possible to get, there are a great many wonderful Catholic priests and followers who devote themselves to the greater good.

I was raised Catholic and whilst i have turned on the church, i;'ve not turned on all of it's teachiongs ... and some of the finest people i know are Catholic.

Please don;t fall into the bigot's trap of labelling the all with the few.

Happy now, Setanta?

Yes.
I'm not religious at all in any way but I believe if you are going to pay out on any you must pay out on all. If you defend any you must defend all. Personally I would have them all gone, they are a blight on mankind. Some more than others.

And one must never miss an opportunity to impress their ethical standpoint on each and every comment, even if they don't see it.

Should one not see it, it may be held against one in other threads days after the event.

Go for it. I don't know how you'll pull it off though. Ethics do not need religion and religion bypasses ethics.

I'm sad for you how far from the point you are.

Perhaps you should graph the point at which you think you stand.

Or you could just reread what's actually been written and work it out.

I know you can.

Perhaps. It is bed time, I know I said this before but as I passed through the kitchen and saw the leftovers, guilt struck me. Think of the starving Biafrans I said to myself, so I had to eat it. Now I know the food wasn't wasted, bed time. Punkin day tomorrow.

think of IN FILL set....and what you are doing to save our wonderful planet.....

we are all going to be buried in WASTE...

it will outdo Climate Change to finish off this planet.. Wink

it will be one big PILE OF CRAP.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 72209 Gender:	Re: Pell Court of Appeal Decision Reply #77 - Aug 18^th, 2019 at 10:00am even if Pell didn't partake, he covered up for those that did. For that he should rot in a cell forever.
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cods

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Re: Pell Court of Appeal Decision
Reply #78 - Aug 18^th, 2019 at 10:10am

John Smith wrote on Aug 18^th, 2019 at 10:00am:

even if Pell didn't partake, he covered up for those that did. For that he should rot in a cell forever.

was he the only one???.. what about all the POPES....

he was guided by the Church...and he chose them above the children....he has to live with that..jail wont give him penance..

he will suffer to his grave

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Gnads

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Re: Pell Court of Appeal Decision
Reply #79 - Aug 18^th, 2019 at 1:20pm

cods wrote on Aug 18^th, 2019 at 10:10am:

John Smith wrote on Aug 18^th, 2019 at 10:00am:

even if Pell didn't partake, he covered up for those that did. For that he should rot in a cell forever.

was he the only one???.. what about all the POPES....

he was guided by the Church...and he chose them above the children....he has to live with that..jail wont give him penance..

he will suffer to his grave

That's a fairly ordinary excuse.

Just because others did it?

He knowingly aided & abetted paedohile child abusing priests under his jurisdiction.....

He should have been the better Christian and reported them.

He deserves a criminal conviction for that alone.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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John Smith

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Re: Pell Court of Appeal Decision
Reply #80 - Aug 18^th, 2019 at 2:09pm

cods wrote on Aug 18^th, 2019 at 10:10am:

John Smith wrote on Aug 18^th, 2019 at 10:00am:

even if Pell didn't partake, he covered up for those that did. For that he should rot in a cell forever.

was he the only one???.. what about all the POPES....

he was guided by the Church...and he chose them above the children....he has to live with that..jail wont give him penance..

he will suffer to his grave

Aren't you the one who's always pretending to care about the children? Lock them them all up for all I care. From the pope right down to the cleaners in your local parish. If they knew and tried to hide it, they all deserve to rot in jail.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Aussie

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Re: Pell Court of Appeal Decision
Reply #81 - Aug 18^th, 2019 at 2:19pm

Gnads wrote on Aug 18^th, 2019 at 1:20pm:

cods wrote on Aug 18^th, 2019 at 10:10am:

John Smith wrote on Aug 18^th, 2019 at 10:00am:

even if Pell didn't partake, he covered up for those that did. For that he should rot in a cell forever.

was he the only one???.. what about all the POPES....

he was guided by the Church...and he chose them above the children....he has to live with that..jail wont give him penance..

he will suffer to his grave

That's a fairly ordinary excuse.

Just because others did it?

He knowingly aided & abetted paedohile child abusing priests under his jurisdiction.....

He should have been the better Christian and reported them.

He deserves a criminal conviction for that alone.

Okay...so prosecute him for that. It is entirely irrelevant to this Thread and the offences for which pell was convicted.

What say ye Gonads...what will the Appeal Court find?

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Bobby.

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Re: Pell Court of Appeal Decision
Reply #82 - Aug 18^th, 2019 at 2:30pm

This court case has now taken on messianic dimensions:

Cardinal George Pell compares plight
with that of Jesus

https://www.sentinelassam.com/international/cardinal-george-pell-compares-plight...

August 12, 2019 1:30 am

Canberra: Australian Cardinal George Pell, who was recently sentenced to six years in prison for sexually abusing two children more than 20 years ago, has compared his suffering to that of Jesus Christ. Pell, in a missive believed to be signed by him and posted on social media on Saturday by a support group, claimed that faith was the source of his strength and suffering gave him purpose and direction, reports Efe news. “The knowledge that my small suffering can be used for good purposes through being joined to Jesus’ suffering gives me purpose and direction,” said the former third-ranking Vatican official in a two-page letter dated August 1 from his prison in Melbourne. In the message, he also expressed gratitude to the people who supported and believed in him, adding that he was waiting to find out the result of his appeal against the sentence. Cardinal George Pell was convicted in March after a jury found him guilty on five counts of paedophilia for sexually abusing two choir-boys at St Patrick’s Cathedral in Melbourne between 1996-97.(IANS)

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Pell Court of Appeal Decision
Reply #83 - Aug 18^th, 2019 at 2:44pm

cods wrote on Aug 18^th, 2019 at 9:53am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 17^th, 2019 at 8:40pm:

It's what I expected - I'm no Catholic and no adherent to any religion, but I thought the entire premise on which the conviction was made was flawed.

As I've said - he may have been guilty of not blasting bastards for abuse and not acting, but he wasn't on trial for that.

His trial wasnt fair or correct imo...hes paying for all the Churches flaws and mistakes over centuries..

I think that is why he has put himself through this...

the sacrifice if you like

I think most on here know how I feel about paedophiles it isnt a secret but for the life of me I cannot see this man doing what is claimed in this case......as a by stander the evidence didnt stack up...

yes he is and was judged on the cover ups of the past and so he should be....his allegiance was to the church rather than the children....a huge mistake...

but I would rather he spent time in jail with fact and truth.....rather than a miserable judgement that is flawed...

Yes - by all means try him for facilitating with depraved indifference or whatever - but not on the specific instances themselves... unless he was directly and personally involved.

It is always dangerous to accept one point of view in the affirmative in a court, as opposed to the right to innocence pending proof beyond a reasonable doubt etc... and even the word of two people in concert is deemed insufficient for a conviction these days - at least in the United States.

I see no reason why the following judgement should not be permitted to hold sway here:-

'Whenever you hear two different versions of the same events, and those two different versions are the same in every detail, you know you are listening to a lie'.
Sidney Schreiber - New Jersey State Supreme Court Judge.

How many 'convictions' are made on the basis of two witnesses in absolute synch saying the exact same thing?

I believe Justice Schreiber made that decision in relation to ex-culpatory verbal evidence given by witnesses - but it applies across the board, for obvious reasons.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 37678 Gender:	Re: Pell Court of Appeal Decision Reply #84 - Aug 18^th, 2019 at 3:02pm Quote: 'Whenever you hear two different versions of the same events, and those two different versions are the same in every detail, you know you are listening to a lie'. Sidney Schreiber - New Jersey State Supreme Court Judge. Literally, that makes zero sense. It is a nonsense.
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cods

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Re: Pell Court of Appeal Decision
Reply #85 - Aug 18^th, 2019 at 3:16pm

John Smith wrote on Aug 18^th, 2019 at 2:09pm:

cods wrote on Aug 18^th, 2019 at 10:10am:

John Smith wrote on Aug 18^th, 2019 at 10:00am:

even if Pell didn't partake, he covered up for those that did. For that he should rot in a cell forever.

was he the only one???.. what about all the POPES....

he was guided by the Church...and he chose them above the children....he has to live with that..jail wont give him penance..

he will suffer to his grave

Aren't you the one who's always pretending to care about the children? Lock them them all up for all I care. From the pope right down to the cleaners in your local parish. If they knew and tried to hide it, they all deserve to rot in jail.

yesI am but I do not condone jailing someone who isnt guilty just because some on here see every Catholic Priest as a paedophile....\

this is about Pells APPEAL..do I think he got an honest trial...no I dont...

thats the reason for my comment....its about the trial some here claim he is guilty no matter what! and therefore leave the sentence as is...

they thinks its aussie justice... not in my book..

btw I do not pretend about my convictions on Paedophiles... they will never change.

if he is honestly guilty ..[which from the trial I found hard to believe] then justice has been served.

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 37678 Gender:	Re: Pell Court of Appeal Decision Reply #86 - Aug 18^th, 2019 at 3:20pm Quote: btw I do not pretend about my convictions on Paedophiles... they will never change. Why do you insist on posting this virtue signalling continually? Is there anyone here who supports what paedos get up to? No-one here is any different to you on that issue.
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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 72209 Gender:	Re: Pell Court of Appeal Decision Reply #87 - Aug 18^th, 2019 at 3:30pm cods wrote on Aug 18^th, 2019 at 3:16pm: btw I do not pretend about my convictions on Paedophiles... they will never change. and yet your first response to was Quote: was he the only one???.. what about all the POPES. you were excusing him for his actions cods.
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philperth2010

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Re: Pell Court of Appeal Decision
Reply #88 - Aug 18^th, 2019 at 9:45pm

Setanta wrote on Aug 17^th, 2019 at 11:58pm:

mothra wrote on Aug 17^th, 2019 at 10:53pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2019 at 6:09pm:

When a priest rapes a child does anyone think they really believe in God???

When a church covers up child sexual abuse they have lost all credibility and use religion to hide behind!!!

Pell is part of an organisation that is a criminal cartel....The Catholic Church is evil incarnate and Pell is it's pin up paedophile!!!

Smiley

Such evil deeds could religion prompt.
Lucretius (96 BC - 55 BC), De Rerum Natura

Phil, i know your post is days old but Seatanta has instructed that if i';m to have any integrity at all i must venture to comment upon what you said.

While i agree that the powers behind the church are about as far from altruistic as it is possible to get, there are a great many wonderful Catholic priests and followers who devote themselves to the greater good.

I was raised Catholic and whilst i have turned on the church, i;'ve not turned on all of it's teachings ... and some of the finest people i know are Catholic.

Please don;t fall into the bigot's trap of labelling the all with the few.

Happy now, Setanta?

Yes.
I'm not religious at all in any way but I believe if you are going to pay out on any you must pay out on all. If you defend any you must defend all. Personally I would have them all gone, they are a blight on mankind. Some more than others.

Islam has nothing to be proud of and I will not defend any religious institution that covers up child sexual abuse (most religions qualify)....However this thread is about Pell and the Catholic Church not Islam (not surprised Set want's to conflate the two)....If religion cannot abide by it's own standards then they deserve to be de-registered as a charity organisation....Threaten to take their free funding away and they will start caring more about the children than their damaged image???

Huh

With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
Steven Weinberg (1933 - ), quoted in The New York Times, April 20, 1999

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Setanta

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Re: Pell Court of Appeal Decision
Reply #89 - Aug 18^th, 2019 at 10:05pm

philperth2010 wrote on Aug 18^th, 2019 at 9:45pm:

Setanta wrote on Aug 17^th, 2019 at 11:58pm:

mothra wrote on Aug 17^th, 2019 at 10:53pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2019 at 6:09pm:

When a priest rapes a child does anyone think they really believe in God???

When a church covers up child sexual abuse they have lost all credibility and use religion to hide behind!!!

Pell is part of an organisation that is a criminal cartel....The Catholic Church is evil incarnate and Pell is it's pin up paedophile!!!

Smiley

Such evil deeds could religion prompt.
Lucretius (96 BC - 55 BC), De Rerum Natura

Phil, i know your post is days old but Seatanta has instructed that if i';m to have any integrity at all i must venture to comment upon what you said.

While i agree that the powers behind the church are about as far from altruistic as it is possible to get, there are a great many wonderful Catholic priests and followers who devote themselves to the greater good.

I was raised Catholic and whilst i have turned on the church, i;'ve not turned on all of it's teachings ... and some of the finest people i know are Catholic.

Please don;t fall into the bigot's trap of labelling the all with the few.

Happy now, Setanta?

Yes.
I'm not religious at all in any way but I believe if you are going to pay out on any you must pay out on all. If you defend any you must defend all. Personally I would have them all gone, they are a blight on mankind. Some more than others.

Islam has nothing to be proud of and I will not defend any religious institution that covers up child sexual abuse (most religions qualify)....However this thread is about Pell and the Catholic Church not Islam (not surprised Set want's to conflate the two)....If religion cannot abide by it's own standards then they deserve to be de-registered as a charity organisation....Threaten to take their free funding away and they will start caring more about the children than their damaged image???

Huh

With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
Steven Weinberg (1933 - ), quoted in The New York Times, April 20, 1999

My point is Phil, those who want to hang the Catholic church seem unable to condemn the same in other religions. You did make a very telling comment last night about the evil that is the Catholic church. Are you able to say the same about another religion? Will you make that same comment about Islam? Or is that a bridge too far?

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Poll
Question: Is Pell guilty?
* This poll has now closed *
Yes 7 (63.6%) No 4 (36.4%) Total votes: 11 « Created by: Bobby. on: Aug 26^th, 2019 at 12:38pm »