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LPG, will it survive ? (Read 3081 times)

juliar

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LPG, will it survive ?
Jul 23^rd, 2019 at 7:08pm

LPG is being replaced by hybrids which are good in the city but not so good out on the highway where the battery goes flat.

LPG conversions were dodgy at best with lots of annoying problems. Factory built LPG cars like the Falcon were quite good.

LPG is not as cheap as it once was and getting an LPG engine serviced is getting more difficult as they are a bit cantankerous.

LPG – WHY ARE WE LETTING IT GO?
By Ian Newnham - July 2, 20198483 797

Have a number of seemingly unrelated facts and events opened up “The Perfect Storm” scenario for this country?

We have instituted policies which progressively moved our refining of petroleum products offshore.

We did nothing to increase our storage capacity and as a result have allowed our petrol/diesel stock to fall lower and lower. Currently we have the following available.

UPDATE 2/7/19. AUSTRALIAS STOCKS. Crude Oil 22 Days, LPG 59 Days, Petrol 20 Days, Aviation Fuel 19 Days, Diesel 21 Days

Over the last 5 years we have allowed our LPG Autogas industry to evolve into the red-haired stepchild of the major retailing chains and take on a pariah image.

Last winter in Melbourne warnings were issued regarding high levels of polluting particulates in the air quality. The wearing of face masks is becoming more and more common as both Melbourne and Sydney move into mega-city status. Much of Air Pollution is directly attributable to vehicle emission.

Migration is an integral part of our economic management strategy and many of the new arrivals will be settled in Melbourne or Sydney thus becoming subjected to – and contributing to –high pollution and inherent health concerns.

On the positive side we have huge reserves of LPG Autogas. This is the product that goes under various names but is mostly made up of propane and in some instances, butane. LPG is not LNG. That product is methane, itself the subject of interesting research

LPG burns cleaner than any other fuel for internal combustion engines.

“LPG vehicles produce up to 82% less Nitrogen Oxide pollutants than petrol and 99% better than diesel! 63% less Carbon Monoxide. 40% less Hydrocarbons than petrol and 70% less than diesel.” – Industry Figures.

We have huge supplies of our own cleaner burning fuel. We have massive problems with air pollution in our cities which is getting worse. Why then have we turned a blind eye to the growing demise of the LPG industry and the vehicles associated with it.

This is contrary to what is happening in the rest of the world

“The global CNG and LPG market was valued at 45,952.4 thousand units in 2015 Itis expected to grow at a compound annual growth rate (CAGR) of 10.1% from 2016 to 2022, according to a November report from P&S Market Research.”

Hundreds of models of LPG powered cars are available over a broad range of European, Asian and North American markets. Yet we see a removal of outlets of LPG in every regional area of Australia. We see new petrol retail sites opening without provision for LPG outlets.

This Catch 22 farce is becoming Pythonesque in its absurdity. The retailers claim to be downsizing because of demand drop and consumers say whoops not getting on board because of lack of outlets.

Many large fleet owners have replaced ageing LPG units with Hybrids because of Vehicle industry reluctance to include medium sized LPG units in their marketing mix.

One adventuresome local group has one-upped the industry by retro fitting a Toyota Camry Hybrid with LPG thus improving costs by some $3.25/100km PLUS running a much cleaner vehicle. Diesel is not a clean fuel and has the stigma of carcinogenic emissions.

Since 2014, the incentives to convert from petrol to LPG were allowed to lapse, and there was an impost of excise on LPG. This has meant that the cost savings have not been as good as before – but, they are there., Despite shocking mismanagement however, the fuel is also here, and that is one important point. The other, is that by us embracing the technology, a sizeable chunk of health issues can be avoided for the unfortunate residents of our cities.

To fix this problem, the first thing to do is to put the brakes on the dismantling of our retail outlet system. The second is to ensure that consumers in Australia have access to the latest LPG models. For sure I am a free trader but sometimes these things need to be kicked into happening. We should provide two programs for retro fitting in general. One directed at the Commercial sector and one for Private Motorists. We should also provide incentives for pensioners to retrofit their vehicles.

Oh! and did I mention the recent event when tankers were blown up in the Middle East? This is the real world and it is happening now; it may get worse or it may get better. Why should we be put at risk because we have allowed our best and cleanest source of energy for this sector to die. Our Politicians have made us reliant on others to keep us secure and operating. That is a nonsense and a bloody awful choice.

https://www.pickeringpost.com/2019/07/02/6916/

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Sir lastnail Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 29705 Gender:	Re: LPG, will it survive ? Reply #1 - Jul 28^th, 2019 at 3:36pm juliar wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2019 at 7:08pm: [b][i]LPG is being replaced by hybrids which are good in the city but not so good out on the highway where the battery goes flat. Why would a battery go flat in a hybrid unless it runs out of gas or petrol ? shows how little you know socko LOL
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juliar

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Re: LPG, will it survive ?
Reply #2 - Jul 28^th, 2019 at 5:21pm

Scunge is expressing her well known ignorance as she continues her HATE session with me.

Wonder why she keeps on humiliating herself ?

Must have a masochistic streak. Lunatic extremist Greenies are often downright weird.

But then that is why they are attracted to the lying rubbish the Greenies put out.

They don't have the intelligence to see that it is just impractical rubbish.

In an example of the extreme hypocrisy of the lunatic extremist Greenies the geriatric Bob Brown now admits that wind farms kill huge numbers of birds, are an eyesore, cause many health problems for people living nearby, and produce very little useful power output.

But the new future for these otherwise useless wind farms and solar farms is to power electrolyzers to produce HYDROGEN, the magic fuel of the future.

The Hydrogen Energy Future

« Last Edit: Jul 28^th, 2019 at 8:55pm by juliar »

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Sir lastnail Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 29705 Gender:	Re: LPG, will it survive ? Reply #3 - Jul 28^th, 2019 at 11:50pm For a change try answering the question without copying and pasting bullshit and hurling abuse at others that don't agree with you. You really are a dead set retard socko.
Back to top	In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”. IP Logged

juliar Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 22966	Re: LPG, will it survive ? Reply #4 - Jul 29^th, 2019 at 7:23am Scunge is STILL following me around like a lost puppy because she worships the ground I walk on and she wants to keep her HATE session with me going. What a gronk but then she IS a Greenie.
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Sir lastnail Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 29705 Gender:	Re: LPG, will it survive ? Reply #5 - Jul 29^th, 2019 at 11:39am Simple solution socko. Pissoff !!
Back to top	In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”. IP Logged

juliar Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 22966	Re: LPG, will it survive ? Reply #6 - Jul 29^th, 2019 at 12:16pm Scunge is STILL following me around like a lost puppy because she worships the ground I walk on and she wants to keep her HATE session with me going. What a gronk but then she IS a Greenie.
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Sir lastnail Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 29705 Gender:	Re: LPG, will it survive ? Reply #7 - Jul 30^th, 2019 at 10:31am why don't you go back to school and complete 6th grade LOL
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juliar Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 22966	Re: LPG, will it survive ? Reply #8 - Jul 30^th, 2019 at 11:14am Scunge the Ignorance Virus strikes again. Need a FireWall here.
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juliar

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Re: LPG, will it survive ?
Reply #9 - Jul 31^st, 2019 at 8:22am

Ignoring the silly uneducated Greeny fool and back to the topic which is far too hard for the Greeny drongo to understand.

The story behind the rise and fall of LPG

LPG pump at the bowser

Amidst the fuss about petrol price movements, sustained growth in the popularity of diesel and the looming rise of electric vehicles, Liquid Petroleum Gas (LPG) has become the forgotten sibling of the local fuel industry.

Total LPG sales in NSW were 4.4 per cent of total fuel sales during the previous financial year and this figure has been slowly falling over time.

This state of events has caused distress to some of our Members, who’ve written to us via social media to complain of price gouging and reduced availability of what was once a hero propellant.

“The fuel search function on the my nrma app continues to show that LPG is available at both the Ulladulla and Batemans Bay Coles Express facilities when this has clearly not been the case for the past several weeks,” Christopher J wrote.

“Following our recent trip to the Tamworth Music Festival, this situation appears to be almost across the board for Coles Express.

“Given that we have converted our vehicle to LPG for the cost saving and the environmental benefits, this is a very real concern when we are planning to do some serious caravan travel throughout Australia in the near future.”

Mark C complains that Shell and BP are also removing LPG bowsers, with serious ramifications for consumers.

“People took advantage of government inducements, only to be left with no competition on price rises like petrol users,” he wrote.

The state of play

The NSW Government is unable to check every servo in the state and motorists are urged to contact the Department of Fair Trading if prices are still listed for locations where LPG or any other fuel is no longer sold.

And while we are not yet aware of Shell or BP’s policy, we can confirm that Coles Express has decided to withdraw LPG bowsers on a location-by-location basis.

This means an estimated 24 out of 354 sites in Sydney will no longer sell LPG, while 711 servos across the state still stock the fuel.

But the reasoning behind the Coles Express decision – falling sales for a fuel that is expensive to distribute, stock and dispense – signals a sad decline for what was once seen as the saviour of Australian road transportation.

Origins of the energy

LPG was identified as an important component of petrol way back in 1910 but didn’t emerge as a retail option until the global oil crisis of 1973.

Australia has a self-sufficient abundance of LPG but for too many reasons to even summarise here, we are both an importer and exporter with our price strongly influenced by the Saudi Contract Price (SCP) since deregulation in 1991 in much the same way that oil prices follow the Brent Crude trend.

The sales pitch

Even so, LPG remained an eye-catchingly cheap fuel option up to the start of the 21st century as petrol prices surged, and its popularity exploded when the Howard Government introduced the LPG Incentive Scheme in 2006 that offered a $2000 subsidy for either new car purchase or retro-fitting.

The scheme was designed to promote sales of locally built LPG-powered Commodores and Falcons but it also resulted in six-month waiting lists at workshops equipped to convert petrol-powered vehicles with LPG kits and tanks, as the financial argument was so strong.

Ford has previously pointed out that an LPG Falcon that covered 15,000km per year consumed $1476 worth of fuel at an assumed rate of 80 cents per litre while the petrol-powered model cost $2228 when regular unleaded was priced at $1.50 per litre.

This represents an annual saving of $752 and the addition of the subsidy put the owner of the gas-powered vehicle ahead after a year, even when taking into account the $2500 higher purchase price of an LPG Falcon.

Back when average petrol prices first spiked above $1.40 in 2008 and then crested $1.60 in 2014, this was a compelling proposition.

Fast-forward to today and even with the recent rise in petrol costs, we aren’t aware of any outlets selling regular unleaded today for more than $1.45 per litre – whereas LPG prices outside of Sydney can easily average above 80 cents per litre.

Crunching the numbers

But that’s only one reason why LPG is fading as a fuel option.

The second reason was the introduction of an excise on LPG, starting at 2.5 cents per litre at the end of 2011 and rising to 13.1 cents per litre as of February 1, along with the general price rise in all fuels in the first decade of the 21st century.

This contributed to making the cost of LPG greater relative to the cost of petrol, even as the actual margin remained stable: in March 2004, the average price of LPG (45 cents per litre) was 44 per cent of the price of regular unleaded ($1.02) but by March 2014 the price of LPG (91 cents) was 60 per cent of regular unleaded ($1.52).

Read the rest of the demise of LPG here

https://www.mynrma.com.au/membership/my-nrma-app/fuel-resources/the-story-behind...

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juliar

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Re: LPG, will it survive ?
Reply #10 - Aug 1^st, 2019 at 7:02am

Enough hot air about carbon dioxide; let's talk LPG
by Chris McCormack News Weekly, January 26, 2019

With all the nonsensical effort and taxpayers’ money being expended to reduce harmless carbon-dioxide emissions, is it time for the Federal Government to revisit subsidising conversions of vehicles to run on liquefied petroleum gas (LPG), which will actually help reduce harmful emissions?

All-terrain LPG-powered vehicle.

In 2006, under Prime Minister John Howard, LPG vehicle conversions began to be subsidised to the tune of $2000 per vehicle, while the purchase of a new LPG-powered vehicle attracted a $1000 rebate. This amount was gradually reduced under the ALP government until ceasing altogether in mid 2014 at the end of the eight-year scheme. It was not renewed under the Abbott Coalition government.

The scheme cost around $594 million, with 317,847 grants issued over the eight-year period. The scheme’s aim was for greater uptake of LPG in order to reduce the overall amount of toxic and carcinogenic pollutants emitted from motor vehicles.

LPG is made during natural-gas processing and oil refining whereby it is isolated, liquefied through pressurisation and stored in pressure vessels. LPG emits 20 per cent less nitrogen oxides and 60 per cent less carbon monoxide, and has a much lower sulphur content than petrol. LPG vapours are also 50 per cent less reactive than petrol, meaning they are less likely to contribute to smog.

Compared with diesel-powered vehicles, LPG cars produce 95 per cent less nitrogen oxides (which can cause lung disease) and 120 times less particulates.

If governments are determined to worry about carbon-dioxide emissions, then a “well to wheel” examination maintains that diesel and petrol carbon-dioxide emissions are 29.2 per cent and 26.8 per cent respectively higher than for LPG.

LPG engines also experience less wear and tear as a result of a cleaner combustion process, ensuring a longer engine life and lower costs to the owner in replacement of parts and servicing.

Additionally, more vehicles – including industrial-scale vehicles – running on LPG would ensure a greater degree of energy security, as currently all our LPG is sourced locally, whereas around 90 per cent of our petrol and diesel is imported. The Australian Petroleum Statistics January 2018 issue found that Australia had 23 days’ worth of petrol, 20 days’ aviation fuel and 17 days’ diesel oil in reserve to use in an emergency.

Moreover, Australia’s Liquid Fuel Security: A Report for NRMA Motoring and Services found said that “our unwillingness to assure our liquid fuel supplies puts at risk many of the societal functions that we take for granted” and should our supply be interrupted, “essentially, our society as we know it would cease to function”. This is an untenable energy security position.

If a gas reservation policy were implemented in all states and territories (similar to the policy in Western Australia), this could also hedge against unexpected increases in the domestic LPG price, which is primarily determined by the Saudi Contract Price (SCP).

The availability of LPG in service stations across Australia has declined markedly in recent years in line with a 68 per cent decline in LPG sales since 2010. Around 60 per cent of Australian service stations sell LPG.

The end of Australian car manufacturing, when Holden and Ford ceased production of their new LPG vehicles, contributed to the decline in LPG use. As did the introduction of an excise on LPG in 2011, which became indexed to CPI in 2015 and now stands at 13.4¢ per litre. This means LPG shifted from around 45 per cent of the cost of petrol to nearly 60 per cent. (However, at the time of writing, LPG prices were as low as 59¢ per litre, compared with around $1.09 for unleaded petrol in Victoria.)

Together with the rise of more powerful and fuel-efficient vehicles, these factors have resulted in 29.9 per cent fewer LPG vehicles being registered in 2017 compared with 2012.

Australian-owned independent fuel chain APCO runs 25 service stations in Victoria and Albury (NSW), all of which have LPG bowsers. Director Peter Anderson said that the cost for a mandatory service of the gas tank every 10 years was $20,000–$30,000, which meant that, with lower volumes sold, he would have to consider the economic viability of installing LPG bowsers on any new outlets.

Mr Anderson said at present there was “no margin in LPG” but removing the GST and fuel excise from LPG would improve the attractiveness of LPG usage. He said that he was seeing a reduction of 1 million litres in LPG consumption every year.

While supporting greater uptake of LPG, careful implementation around a strong regulatory framework and scrutiny of any new subsidy program promoting LPG conversions would be needed to avoid any price gouging by operators who simply increased the price of LPG conversions, negating any cost benefits of the subsidy to the consumer, Mr Anderson said.

https://newsweekly.com.au/article.php?id=58381

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Sir lastnail Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 29705 Gender:	Re: LPG, will it survive ? Reply #11 - Aug 1^st, 2019 at 10:19am Break the chain to the fool bowser and don't pay $$$ for any stinken gas ! FREE chargups at home for Tesla's and any other electric vehicles
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juliar Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 22966	Re: LPG, will it survive ? Reply #12 - Aug 1^st, 2019 at 10:26am Silly scunge posts her silly irrelevant OFF TOPIC SPAM because she is too dumb to understand anything about the topic.
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Sir lastnail Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 29705 Gender:	Re: LPG, will it survive ? Reply #13 - Aug 1^st, 2019 at 10:50am Don't pay $$$ and get ripped off at the fool bowser ! Now you can refuel at home. It's a no-brainer only for those with a brain LOL
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juliar Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 22966	Re: LPG, will it survive ? Reply #14 - Aug 1^st, 2019 at 2:49pm Scunge the IGNORANCE VIRUS strikes again to display her utter OFF TOPIC SPAM ignorance and to continue her HATE session with me. Just how stupid is this creature ?
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