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No Surplus Sacrifice For Dole Boost (Read 1799 times)
Dnarever
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Re: No Surplus Sacrifice For Dole Boost
Reply #30 - Jul 22nd, 2019 at 8:58pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 22nd, 2019 at 8:52pm:
juliar wrote on Jul 22nd, 2019 at 4:25pm:
A surplus is required to build new HELE clean coal power stations.


Don't forget to continue to pour public funds into a water scheme for the Murray-Darling etc, by holding firm to a 'business model' that permits water licence trading, so that countless billions of your dollars end up in the hands of chosen mates....

$13Bn so far - and that's just the start in 'saving the Murray-Darling' etc...   Cool

PLENTY more where that came from!  Either borrow it or take it from the riff-raff....


$13B would not even scratch the surface of what has been spent, The Howard government had a fix the Murray policy for each and every election they faced, the Howard government alone fixed the Murray river 4 times.
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Bam
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Re: No Surplus Sacrifice For Dole Boost
Reply #31 - Jul 22nd, 2019 at 9:05pm
 
crocodile wrote on Jul 22nd, 2019 at 8:12pm:
Bam wrote on Jul 22nd, 2019 at 7:05pm:
juliar wrote on Jul 22nd, 2019 at 3:27pm:
Maybe a subsidy to business to employ older people on Newstart as apparently a lot of the people on NewStart are over 50.

There already is a generous wage subsidy. It isn't working. Handing out even more money to businesses won't work.

Alternative approaches:
(1) Require any business that bids for government contracts to hire a quota of 25% unemployed Australian workers for any vacancy.
(2) Require all businesses to hire 10% unemployed workers for all advertised job vacancies or forfeit tax deductibility for all recruitment expenses for that financial year.


(1) Force up the cost of government contracts or discourage bidders
(2) Employ nobody or force up the cost of production.
Got any more bright ideas.

Got any proof? Or are you making this up again?
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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.
 
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crocodile
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Re: No Surplus Sacrifice For Dole Boost
Reply #32 - Jul 22nd, 2019 at 9:10pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Jul 22nd, 2019 at 8:25pm:
crocodile wrote on Jul 22nd, 2019 at 4:06pm:
A surplus means collecting more tax than what is spent. What's the extra money for.


To pay the debt ?

A surplus is not required to retire debt


To allow spending ?

If it is spent, it isn't a surplus


To allow tax cuts that are affordable ?

This is good



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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.
 
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crocodile
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Re: No Surplus Sacrifice For Dole Boost
Reply #33 - Jul 22nd, 2019 at 9:11pm
 
Bam wrote on Jul 22nd, 2019 at 9:05pm:
crocodile wrote on Jul 22nd, 2019 at 8:12pm:
Bam wrote on Jul 22nd, 2019 at 7:05pm:
juliar wrote on Jul 22nd, 2019 at 3:27pm:
Maybe a subsidy to business to employ older people on Newstart as apparently a lot of the people on NewStart are over 50.

There already is a generous wage subsidy. It isn't working. Handing out even more money to businesses won't work.

Alternative approaches:
(1) Require any business that bids for government contracts to hire a quota of 25% unemployed Australian workers for any vacancy.
(2) Require all businesses to hire 10% unemployed workers for all advertised job vacancies or forfeit tax deductibility for all recruitment expenses for that financial year.


(1) Force up the cost of government contracts or discourage bidders
(2) Employ nobody or force up the cost of production.
Got any more bright ideas.

Got any proof? Or are you making this up again?

Have you ?
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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.
 
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Dnarever
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Re: No Surplus Sacrifice For Dole Boost
Reply #34 - Jul 22nd, 2019 at 9:13pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 22nd, 2019 at 8:55pm:
Bam wrote on Jul 22nd, 2019 at 7:05pm:
juliar wrote on Jul 22nd, 2019 at 3:27pm:
Maybe a subsidy to business to employ older people on Newstart as apparently a lot of the people on NewStart are over 50.

There already is a generous wage subsidy. It isn't working. Handing out even more money to businesses won't work.

Alternative approaches:
(1) Require any business that bids for government contracts to hire a quota of 25% unemployed Australian workers for any vacancy.
(2) Require all businesses to hire 10% unemployed workers for all advertised job vacancies or forfeit tax deductibility for all recruitment expenses for that financial year.


Every 'business model' under 'privatisation' is a failure... the need is for an effective public service (much as I hate to say that)... (I DID say 'effective').....


I have worked in a number of public service areas that would out perform any private company every day of the week. Both systems have serious flaws but to pretend that the private area is clean and efficient is rubbish. I have found that the private sector is inundated with nepotism, poor management and inefficient practices. Much more so than the public sector though the public sector has deteriorated badly over recent decades.

I left out mentioning the corruption in the private sector as well.
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crocodile
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Re: No Surplus Sacrifice For Dole Boost
Reply #35 - Jul 22nd, 2019 at 9:15pm
 
John Smith wrote on Jul 22nd, 2019 at 8:26pm:
crocodile wrote on Jul 22nd, 2019 at 8:12pm:
(1) Force up the cost of government contracts or discourage bidders



i doubt it will discourage bidders ... but I'm curious, how does it force up the price? If a tender requires the bidder to hire 50 people, and they pay award wage, why does it cost more to hire 10 or 15 of that workforce if they are 50+ than it does those 49-?

sounds like bullshit to me

Who mentioned 50+ and 49-
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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.
 
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Dnarever
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Re: No Surplus Sacrifice For Dole Boost
Reply #36 - Jul 22nd, 2019 at 9:21pm
 
crocodile wrote on Jul 22nd, 2019 at 9:10pm:
Dnarever wrote on Jul 22nd, 2019 at 8:25pm:
crocodile wrote on Jul 22nd, 2019 at 4:06pm:
A surplus means collecting more tax than what is spent. What's the extra money for.


To pay the debt ?

A surplus is not required to retire debt


To allow spending ?

If it is spent, it isn't a surplus


To allow tax cuts that are affordable ?

This is good





Quote:
A surplus is not required to retire debt


No not absolutely essential but it helps a lot. The other methods hurt people.

Quote:
If it is spent, it isn't a surplus


Not if only 95% of the surplus component is spent, there is a 5% surplus remaining, who said you have to spend it all.

Quote:
This is good



No unaffordable tax cuts like we have now are not good for anyone.
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juliar
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Re: No Surplus Sacrifice For Dole Boost
Reply #37 - Jul 22nd, 2019 at 10:13pm
 
If the new essential HELE power stations are built then the surplus is converted into valuable assets which will benefit the whole country by providing endless cheap power and improve productivity which boost the wealth of the economy.

So the surplus is not lost but converted to national assets.

This is SO unlike Labor which wastes taxpayer funds on useless wasteful unproductive Socialist rubbish which has NO lasting benefit to the Nation and these imbeciles wanted to INCREASE the cost of power by 3 to 4 times with unreliable basically useless renewable rubbish to further impair the productivity of Australian industry and business.
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crocodile
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Re: No Surplus Sacrifice For Dole Boost
Reply #38 - Jul 22nd, 2019 at 11:17pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Jul 22nd, 2019 at 9:21pm:
crocodile wrote on Jul 22nd, 2019 at 9:10pm:
Dnarever wrote on Jul 22nd, 2019 at 8:25pm:
crocodile wrote on Jul 22nd, 2019 at 4:06pm:
A surplus means collecting more tax than what is spent. What's the extra money for.


To pay the debt ?

A surplus is not required to retire debt


To allow spending ?

If it is spent, it isn't a surplus


To allow tax cuts that are affordable ?

This is good





Quote:
A surplus is not required to retire debt


No not absolutely essential but it helps a lot. The other methods hurt people.


Quote:
If it is spent, it isn't a surplus


Not if only 95% of the surplus component is spent, there is a 5% surplus remaining, who said you have to spend it all.

Quote:
This is good



No unaffordable tax cuts like we have now are not good for anyone.


It doesn't help at all. It simply transfers the debt from the government sector to the private sector. It is a deadweight loss to growth.
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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.
 
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Bam
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Re: No Surplus Sacrifice For Dole Boost
Reply #39 - Jul 22nd, 2019 at 11:24pm
 
crocodile wrote on Jul 22nd, 2019 at 9:15pm:
John Smith wrote on Jul 22nd, 2019 at 8:26pm:
crocodile wrote on Jul 22nd, 2019 at 8:12pm:
(1) Force up the cost of government contracts or discourage bidders



i doubt it will discourage bidders ... but I'm curious, how does it force up the price? If a tender requires the bidder to hire 50 people, and they pay award wage, why does it cost more to hire 10 or 15 of that workforce if they are 50+ than it does those 49-?

sounds like bullshit to me

Who mentioned 50+ and 49-

Click the innermost link that says "crocodile" above and you'll find out.

Not that it's particularly relevant anyway. Knowing who posted what doesn't make your argument above any less refuted.
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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.
 
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Bam
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Re: No Surplus Sacrifice For Dole Boost
Reply #40 - Jul 22nd, 2019 at 11:34pm
 
crocodile wrote on Jul 22nd, 2019 at 11:17pm:
[A surplus] simply transfers the debt from the government sector to the private sector. It is a deadweight loss to growth.

That depends on the circumstances. A surplus can also be a sign of economic problems.

* Whitlam's surpluses were due to high inflation.
* Hawke's surpluses were due to high inflation and an overheated booming economy.
* Howard's surpluses were due to an overheated booming economy.

Even if these surpluses were "deadweight losses", it can be argued that these surpluses were desirable. They helped to cool the economy by taking surplus money out of the economy.

That's why the current government's obsession with a surplus at all costs is bad economic management. The Australian economy is weak and moribund, and sucking money out of the economy just to deliver a surplus is not going to help the economy.
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juliar
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Re: No Surplus Sacrifice For Dole Boost
Reply #41 - Jul 23rd, 2019 at 1:22am
 
As always the Lefties say a big NO to everything and cannot grasp how the Australian economy actually operates.

Cheap power is absolutely essential and vital to efficient industry which is competing with overseas firms.

The Govt's responsibility is to fund large infrastructure projects which are of lasting benefit to the working economic community.

Effective Govt uses the surplus resulting from efficient economic management to fund value adding infrastructure such as cheap power and dams to alleviate the drought problem.

Thus the surplus is magnified by improving the efficiency of industry which is able to produce goods for export more cheaply and this exporting increases the wealth of the Australian economy.

This effective efficient govt style is TOTALLY ALIEN to the Socialist Greeny controlled Labor Party who, if they had been elected, planned to do everything they could to force industry and business to close and leave Australia. This is Greeny policy.
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Re: No Surplus Sacrifice For Dole Boost
Reply #42 - Jul 23rd, 2019 at 2:19am
 
juliar wrote on Jul 23rd, 2019 at 1:22am:
As always the Lefties say a big NO to everything and cannot grasp how the Australian economy actually operates.

Cheap power is absolutely essential and vital to efficient industry which is competing with overseas firms.

The Govt's responsibility is to fund large infrastructure projects which are of lasting benefit to the working economic community.

Effective Govt uses the surplus resulting from efficient economic management to fund value adding infrastructure such as cheap power and dams to alleviate the drought problem.

Thus the surplus is magnified by improving the efficiency of industry which is able to produce goods for export more cheaply and this exporting increases the wealth of the Australian economy.

This effective efficient govt style is TOTALLY ALIEN to the Socialist Greeny controlled Labor Party who, if they had been elected, planned to do everything they could to force industry and business to close and leave Australia. This is Greeny policy.


So ....... errrrrrrr....... which century do they plan to start?
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: No Surplus Sacrifice For Dole Boost
Reply #43 - Jul 23rd, 2019 at 6:35am
 
I think we are moving inevitably towards universal basic income

Many of the jobs in transportation
Many of the jobs in retail
Many of the jobs in food processing
Many of the jobs in construction
Many of the jobs in clerical and administrative work
Many of the jobs in customer service
Many of the jobs in manufacturing

Just lend themselves to being automated and those jobs comprise probably the majority of jobs currently being undertaken

Universal basic income is not such a bad thing
It's probably not good that someone stands at a checkout 40 hours a week
Analysis shows that this work is more mind-numbing then that of a 6 year old playing Minecraft on his PlayStation
It's probably nicer to automate all those jobs and then find a way of redistributing some of the prophets to provide universal basic income to everyone

It won't be at an incredibly high level
Ubi will probably be at about the level of the current dole

And it should be for everyone
No means test

And it will allow the scrapping of the hundreds of other peculiar welfare payments and the closing down of the very inefficient job networks

People will still be able to Aspire and rise because the new job's will go to the creative people
You will really have to create your own niche job and your own niche meaning in life

In a world where a i robots and machine learning run everything if you don't apply the evolutionary blowtorch to yourself to improve improve improve you are going to have an even more meaningless life
You won't starve you will have shelter you will have basic health care you will have basic education but that's about it
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juliar
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Re: No Surplus Sacrifice For Dole Boost
Reply #44 - Jul 23rd, 2019 at 2:20pm
 
Praise the Lord!!! Aqua's HillSong Sermons are SO inspiring!! Praise the Lord!!!
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