Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 2 3 ... 12
Send Topic Print
There's no such thing as an alpha male (Read 8362 times)
mothra
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 34385
Gender: female
There's no such thing as an alpha male
Jul 1st, 2019 at 7:05pm
 
There's no such thing as an alpha male


Eric Trump recently suggested that when his father, Donald Trump, bragged about grabbing women's genitals without consent, it was an example of " two alpha guys in a thing."
In addition to shedding some light on how Trump's son views his father and manhood, it's also interesting because "alpha males" aren't actually a thing.

As the writer Saladin Ahmed pointed out, the concept of "alpha male" wolves that assert dominance over their pack through aggression comes from a debunked model of lupine social groups.

...

David Mech introduced the idea of the alpha to describe behavior observed in captive animals. Alphas, he wrote in his 1970 book "The Wolf: Ecology and Behavior of an Endangered Species," win control of their packs in violent fights with other males.

But, as he outlined in a 1999 paper, he's since rejected that idea in light of research into the behavior of wolves in the wild.

In nature, Mech writes, wolves split off from their packs when they mature, and seek out opposite-sex companions with whom to form new packs. The male and female co-dominate the new pack for a much simpler, more peaceful reason: They're the parents of all the pups.

Mech writes on his website (with the lovely title Wolf News and Info) that his original book is "currently still in print, despite my numerous pleas to the publisher to stop publishing it."

Another Twitter user, Mike Westphal, pointed out another paper on the misuse of the phrase "alpha males" to describe breeding roosters.

In the 2003 book " Sexual Selections: What We Can and Can't Learn about Sex from Animals," the biologist Marlene Zuk points out that social groups of hens do have "pecking orders." That is, hierarchies among the females with dominance asserted through pecking.

But roosters are not part of those social groups, Zuk writes, and the idea that the top hen is somehow an "alpha male" bizarrely misgenders the dominant bird.

All of which is to say: Humans who enjoy the idea of "alpha males" might want to keep in mind that there isn't really any such thing. And to the extent the term has any meaning at all, it describes the behavior of captive, lonely creatures.


https://www.businessinsider.com/no-such-thing-alpha-male-2016-10?r=US&IR=T&fbcli...
Back to top
 

If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.
 
IP Logged
 
mothra
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 34385
Gender: female
Re: There's no such thing as an alpha male
Reply #1 - Jul 1st, 2019 at 7:06pm
 
"Humans who enjoy the idea of "alpha males" might want to keep in mind that there isn't really any such thing. And to the extent the term has any meaning at all, it describes the behavior of captive, lonely creatures."
Back to top
 

If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.
 
IP Logged
 
greggerypeccary
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 130910
Gender: male
Re: There's no such thing as an alpha male
Reply #2 - Jul 1st, 2019 at 7:31pm
 
mothra wrote on Jul 1st, 2019 at 7:06pm:
"Humans who enjoy the idea of "alpha males" might want to keep in mind that there isn't really any such thing. And to the extent the term has any meaning at all, it describes the behavior of captive, lonely creatures."


Poor horse-boy   Grin
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
aquascoot
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 32658
Gender: male
Re: There's no such thing as an alpha male
Reply #3 - Jul 1st, 2019 at 7:39pm
 
It's not about aggression.
A dominant male who was aggressive and a tyrant would soon be taken out by 2 other males who banded together if they were each 3/4 his strength.

It is about competence .

You put a bunch of people together and they will pretty quickly sort themselves out into a hierarchy.

Surely you and mothra ( or is that just you) aren't denying that animals including humans are always sorting themselves into hierarchies.

Surely you recognise that' there are all sorts of hierarchies we slot into and we are biologically engineered that way
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
John Smith
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 71971
Gender: male
Re: There's no such thing as an alpha male
Reply #4 - Jul 1st, 2019 at 8:17pm
 
Quote:
There's no such thing as an alpha male



Grin Grin Grin Grin

you just destroyed horse boys world. Grin Grin Grin
Back to top
 

Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
IP Logged
 
Mr Hammer
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 25212
Gender: male
Re: There's no such thing as an alpha male
Reply #5 - Jul 1st, 2019 at 8:26pm
 
I know one thing- in ancient times soldiers didn't follow woman and soy boys into battle. The strongest and best warrior was usually leader with first pick of the fluff.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
greggerypeccary
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 130910
Gender: male
Re: There's no such thing as an alpha male
Reply #6 - Jul 1st, 2019 at 8:29pm
 

Horse and Hammer doth protest too much.

Smiley
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
rhino
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 17179
Gender: male
Re: There's no such thing as an alpha male
Reply #7 - Jul 1st, 2019 at 8:30pm
 
John Smith wrote on Jul 1st, 2019 at 8:17pm:
Quote:
There's no such thing as an alpha male



Grin Grin Grin Grin

you just destroyed horse boys world. Grin Grin Grin

Of course she did, presenting a poorly researched article on wolves and comparing it to humans and then making an unrelated generalisation must have totally destroyed him.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
rhino
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 17179
Gender: male
Re: There's no such thing as an alpha male
Reply #8 - Jul 1st, 2019 at 8:32pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2019 at 8:29pm:
Horse and Hammer doth protest too much.

Smiley
You are a beta pecca, you have as much ability to understand what constitutes an alpha male as a 2 dimensional flatlander has of understanding a 3 dimensional world.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 79578
Proud pre-1850's NO Voter
Gender: male
Re: There's no such thing as an alpha male
Reply #9 - Jul 1st, 2019 at 8:33pm
 
Coo-rrect!  There is no such thing as an alpha male...

I won't stretch the discussion beyond the point raised.... for obvious reasons ....
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
mothra
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 34385
Gender: female
Re: There's no such thing as an alpha male
Reply #10 - Jul 1st, 2019 at 8:33pm
 
rhino wrote on Jul 1st, 2019 at 8:30pm:
John Smith wrote on Jul 1st, 2019 at 8:17pm:
Quote:
There's no such thing as an alpha male



Grin Grin Grin Grin

you just destroyed horse boys world. Grin Grin Grin

Of course she did, presenting a poorly researched article on wolves and comparing it to humans and then making an unrelated generalisation must have totally destroyed him. 



You mean the study on which the construct of the human alpha male was built?

Yes, even it's own researchers ran away from it, so flawed it was.
Back to top
 

If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.
 
IP Logged
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 79578
Proud pre-1850's NO Voter
Gender: male
Re: There's no such thing as an alpha male
Reply #11 - Jul 1st, 2019 at 8:34pm
 
mothra wrote on Jul 1st, 2019 at 7:06pm:
"Humans who enjoy the idea of "alpha males" might want to keep in mind that there isn't really any such thing. And to the extent the term has any meaning at all, it describes the behavior of captive, lonely creatures."


... and if there are to be any alphas around here ....... I'm it!
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
greggerypeccary
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 130910
Gender: male
Re: There's no such thing as an alpha male
Reply #12 - Jul 1st, 2019 at 8:36pm
 
mothra wrote on Jul 1st, 2019 at 8:33pm:
rhino wrote on Jul 1st, 2019 at 8:30pm:
John Smith wrote on Jul 1st, 2019 at 8:17pm:
Quote:
There's no such thing as an alpha male



Grin Grin Grin Grin

you just destroyed horse boys world. Grin Grin Grin

Of course she did, presenting a poorly researched article on wolves and comparing it to humans and then making an unrelated generalisation must have totally destroyed him. 



You mean the study on which the construct of the human alpha male was built?

Yes, even it's own researchers ran away from it, so flawed it was.


I love it when rhino gets owned in just a single post.

Smiley
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 79578
Proud pre-1850's NO Voter
Gender: male
Re: There's no such thing as an alpha male
Reply #13 - Jul 1st, 2019 at 8:37pm
 
mothra wrote on Jul 1st, 2019 at 8:33pm:
rhino wrote on Jul 1st, 2019 at 8:30pm:
John Smith wrote on Jul 1st, 2019 at 8:17pm:
Quote:
There's no such thing as an alpha male



Grin Grin Grin Grin

you just destroyed horse boys world. Grin Grin Grin

Of course she did, presenting a poorly researched article on wolves and comparing it to humans and then making an unrelated generalisation must have totally destroyed him. 



You mean the study on which the construct of the human alpha male was built?

Yes, even it's own researchers ran away from it, so flawed it was.


Nothing new from social 'science' ..... more researchers should have run away from more concepts they were researching ... rather then permitting them to enter the mainstream of 'knowledge' and infect the entire organism ....
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
John Smith
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 71971
Gender: male
Re: There's no such thing as an alpha male
Reply #14 - Jul 1st, 2019 at 8:38pm
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Jul 1st, 2019 at 8:26pm:
I know one thing- in ancient times soldiers didn't follow woman and soy boys into battle. The strongest and best warrior was usually leader with first pick of the fluff. 



that might have something to do with the fact that women and boys didn't go into battle.  Cheesy Cheesy
Back to top
 

Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 ... 12
Send Topic Print