Rugby Australia has started furiously shifting blame to it's sponsors - including the government. Meanwhile, Qantas CEO Alan Joyce has denied responsibility for the firing, while still publicly maintaining support for it, and admitting he approached RA to ensure they were "not involved in the controversy".

'This is bigger than Israel Folau': RA chair opens fire

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-union/this-is-bigger-than-israel-folau-ra-chair-opens-fire-20190628-p522d5.html

Mr Clyne said the prospect of a drawn out court battle was a "painful" one for Australian rugby, but the alternative was worse if RA had not acted against Folau's Instagram post in April warning homosexuals, among other groups, were destined for hell.

"[The alternative] would be that we'd have no sponsors at all because no sponsor has indicated they would be willing to be associated with social media posts of that sort and that includes government, because we've also heard from them," he said.

---

‘Outrageous’: Qantas boss Alan Joyce responds to explosive Folau allegation

https://www.news.com.au/sport/rugby/outrageous-qantas-boss-alan-joyce-responds-to-explosive-folau-allegation/news-story/d9ad04a6f6debbb268f0faf871ca06b3

Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce says claims he was responsible for ordering Israel Folau’s sacking are “outrageous” while comparing the saga to cricket’s ball tampering brouhaha.

Speaking at a media conference on Thursday, Joyce reiterated that the airline was supportive of Rugby Australia’s decision to tear up Folau’s contract.

But he shot down the accusation from former Wallabies coach Alan Jones — and others — that the team’s major sponsor was actively involved in the employment dispute and subsequent contract termination.

“We sponsor organisations and sports teams to get a positive benefit out of it,” Joyce told reporters.

“When it becomes controversial, we, of course, want the sporting code to fix those issues.

“Israel’s comments were terrible for a large element of the community, a vulnerable element of the community.

“We felt that was causing controversy for our sponsorship and as a consequence, we asked Rugby Australia ‘what are you doing to make sure we’re not involved in controversy?’”

“It is their issue to resolve, they have put a solution in place, they’re working through that and we’re very supportive of what they’re doing.

“The same was true of Cricket Australia with the ball tampering, we said ‘that was not good.’ “Some sponsors pulled out, we didn’t.

“We gave them time to fix it, and they fixed it.

“We’re still a sponsor and continue to be a sponsor because they did the right thing.”

Joyce also joked that Jones was welcome to continue flying with Qantas.

“We don’t discriminate against anybody — other people may, but we don’t,” he laughed.

“Even Alan Jones is welcome to get Lifetime Platinum Status if he gets there.”

No one wants to own it now, although they were pretty vocal in creating this media storm

Folau simply paraphrased the Bible

so if anyone of the major mouths object, why are they so reticient when it comes to Folau's spiritual authority?

Too obvious?  If they attacked Christianity face-on, they'd be done

so they attack Christianty from the side, citing Folau and not the Bible as 'wrong'

That's what's going on here and no one is game to say it apart from the voting and donating public

PZ547 wrote on Jun 29^th, 2019 at 10:19am:


The End Times are here now.


Jesus will fix them up.





13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations:
and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image.

PZ547 wrote on Jun 29^th, 2019 at 10:19am:



you seriously believe that?


if it was that simple it would have been settled by now...

do you think someone who calls himself a Christian has the right to claim who he believes will go to HELL.....


would  you accept it is fine for a follower of ISLAM to post freely

  all those who do not follow ISLAM will go to HELL..?.


would you be annoyed to read that and chastise him./her for daring to judge you?....

something tells me the boot would be on the other foot.and you would think it ok to speak up...



the Bible has many interpretations on exactly what was meant.... how many times have you written something only to say thats not what I meant when I wrote that....we do it all the time...

you take something out of context it takes on a whole different meaning...

I wouldnt be so arrogant to tell the world what I believe the Bibles meaning are all about.....certainly as a Christian  I hope I wouldnt set on special groups to humiliate them

freediver wrote on Jun 29^th, 2019 at 10:33am:





no havent read it to be honest....yes if you threaten anyone   you are provoking I would think...

perhaps he needs to take a step back and not use his position as a weapon...

sponsors have a right to distance themselves from controversy but thats where it should end...

cods wrote on Jun 29^th, 2019 at 10:36am:


I think Alan Joyce is doing far more harm to Qantas' reputation than Folau. There seems to be a culture of this sort of double speak in Qantas and I have personally seen them use it to rip people off.

His double speak about pulling the string to get Folau fired is in the OP.

freediver wrote on Jun 29^th, 2019 at 10:35am:




no I dont think that!  he is a high profile athlete 

if he can INSULT whoever he chooses   then we all can in public..

we are talking about our society and how  it should behave! WE ALL should behave..

as RU said THIS IS BIGGER THAN ISRAEL....

this is about saying what you think about other groups in cyberspace......if there is no control.... can you imagine what will happen??????

this imo

is like removing the traffic lights.....

they are a RULING that prevents chaos..

it wont work without them.

freediver wrote on Jun 29^th, 2019 at 10:35am:



And as has been pointed out to non-Christian Cods repeatedly, Folau's comment included,

'unless they repent and turn their face to God'

Cods wants to pretend she hasn't been advised of that, for some reason

Folau was citing his holy book, the Bible, from whence his comments came

Folau was NOT personally condemning anyone, as he has repeatedly said

Folau was citing the authority of his God as cited in his holy book, the Bible

Jews cite THEIR holy books when they claim gentiles were created to be slaves for the jews

WHERE'S THE OUTRAGE ABOUT THAT?

Muslims cite THEIR holy books --- and WHERE'S THE OUTRAGE ABOUT THAT?


So clearly, this is an anti-Christian beat-up being pushed by the 96% owned and controlled mass media and powerful and influential others

AND AUSTRALIA HAS SPOKEN

yes

AUSTRALIA HAS SPOKEN FROM ITS POCKET

Good on you, Aussies   

cods wrote on Jun 29^th, 2019 at 10:49am:


That list includes 99% of the population.

Why are we stuck on the homosexual rung.

cods wrote on Jun 29^th, 2019 at 10:49am:


That's what Joyce is choosing to hide behind now he's been rumbled and publicly called out

and he thinks we're too stupid to work him out


Anyway, the answer to that is --- NO MORE corporate sponsorships !

We all know that He who pays the piper calls the tune

So no more paying the piper

No more corporate money in sports

take it back to grass roots support

which will mean no more insane pay for what are guys who kick a ball around or for any other sports person

When corporations can't use money/sponsorship as a whip-hand, it will mean an end to sponge administrators and the obscene levels of corruption in sports

PZ547 wrote on Jun 29^th, 2019 at 10:47am:


Whether or not he is "correct" on Christian doctrine is irrelevant. It is his view on his religion and he has the right to express it. The church has no more right to dictate what people can say than Qantas and the homofascism lobby.

freediver wrote on Jun 29^th, 2019 at 10:59am:


Well FD I thought I would never see the day but there it is, well said......

Cods, in God's eyes, we're all found wanting

Not our fault.  We're the result of our genes and environment, etc.

Most of us do our best and I'm confident God's appreciative of that

Personally, I don't think any half reasonable god could pass judgement on someone who, for whatever reason and there are many, is born with an inherent preference for the same sex

Sex is a powerful drive and if someone is attracted basically from birth to the same sex, then of course they're going to have same-sex relationships -- and I'm sure most Aussies understand that

Folau was citing his holy book, the Bible.  He's a relatively new convert and as they say, there's nothing to match the zeal of the new convert.  Later, they mellow

It's my suspicion that Folau, as a new convert and or born-again, believed with all his might that it was his spiritual duty to speak his God's word. And he did so originally, to my understanding, inside his church

Maybe the media, to distract from other happenings they'd rather we didn't dwell upon, had a mole in that church specifically to create pandemonium re: Folau

So Folau was challenged and on his Facebook, he responded to someone who asked him if God would sanction homosexuality -- something along those lines.  According to Folau, he took the person as genuine and tried to provide good advice drawn from the Bible, saying that adulterers, idolators, homosexuals, liars, etc. must repent before God and turn their face to God.  From that, I drew that God is eternally wishing to forgive us our transgressions and in return for being welcome in God's Heaven, all we need do is repent and turn our face to God,meaning imo, turn to God rather than to spiritually unhealthy practices such as, lying, stealing, committing adultery, etc.

but it was blown out of proportion by the media and was portrayed as if Folau himself was personally passing judgement and condemning adulterers, liars, homosexuals, thieves, etc.

So Folau, rather than God's book, was under fire.  And no matter how many times he patiently explained that at personal level he passes no judgement on those whom the Bible portrays as sinners

and it's escalated, with every man and his dog having an opinion abotu Folau the man

I can't see that someone with so much to lose financially and career-wise would challenge the ruling of those who sacked him, unless he believes -- mistakenly or not -- that he's right in principle

He may not be right.  In law, those who sacked him might be found to have no case to answer.  And Folau might well be required to pay very substantial damages and costs

Personally, I think it's been blown way out of proportion and it's the media to blame.  They've profited very nicely from the back and forth of the matter

If I were Folau, I would thank my God for my good fortune in being a fine athlete and for the money which that has provided me.  I'd buy a comfortable home for my family and take time out to grow veggies or something.  Then later, when the smoke's cleared, I might buy a business to earn my keep while I pursued my interests, religious or other

He's done well for himself.  Sports people have a limited career window.  If he lost the case, he could still retain an interest in sport playing for a country club or coaching, whatever


I think the reason people have taken this entire thing on their shoulders is because they've sat by patiently for a long time as their culture, their beliefs, values and religion have been forced to take a back seat while others have been promoted

so it's a delayed fight-back on the part of Mr and Mrs Average.  And it seems it wasn't expected and has taken certain others by shock.  They didnt' suspect Aussies had it in them and thought Aussies would take it lying down

Funny how a footy related stoush should launch the fight-back when mass migration and mosques all over the place and the attendant moslems' vehicles blocking Aussie driveways did not

reminds me of the adage, 'Tread quietly and carry a big stick'


in other words, Folau may be a convenient catalyst created by himself, perhaps, or other power groups

cods wrote on Jun 29^th, 2019 at 10:16am:


How is this an attack on gays?  Saying that in his view they would go to hell should give them a good laugh - then move on - but no, the precious ones must make a big to-do about it.

What about the constant attacks by gays on others who don't agree with their lifestyle - this being a perfect example?   

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jun 29^th, 2019 at 11:53am:



gays and their attendant ilk are a miniscule percent of any population

which is vastly overrepresented in the media, in movies, on tv, etc

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jun 29^th, 2019 at 11:53am:


Don't really think this makes any sense since gay's like everyone else don't all have the same lifestyle.

Spot

cods wrote on Jun 29^th, 2019 at 10:49am:


Sponsorship is in order to have your company name out there for public viewing - advertising pure and simple.  This storm in a teacup should have been let go - now it has become a rallying point for those sick of PC rubbish being pushed on them endlessly.

If dopey Joyce wants to throw his weight around - by all means withdraw your paid advertising on Wallaby jumpers - let someone else in .... but your advertising doesn't give you any right to dictate.

I know what I do with ultimatums.... 

I apologise for Izzy not including paedos in his abbreviated list.... 

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 29^th, 2019 at 11:59am:


They have a generalised and over-arching lifestyle choice of gayism as opposed to heterosexuality... simple really.

.
Many have asked -- although there have been few responses -- how this became a gay issue?


Where are those championing adultery, for instance?

Where are those taking up arms in defence of idolators, liars, murderers and all the others who were itemised by Folau as nominated in the Bible ?

No one taking offence on their behalf?

why?

Folau didn't single out gays, he was simply citing and paraphrasing something from the Bible

but all we seem to hear about is 'gays'

as usual

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jun 29^th, 2019 at 12:02pm:



some of us would appreciate him puting GRUMPY OLD MEN on his list...

As for the Thread Title...I see no blaming of the Government.  I see that RA says it was contacted by Government.  How is that a 'blaming?'

As for Joyce.  It is possible for both statements to stand consistently.  That is...."QANTAS expressed concern.  We did not ask that Folau be sacked."

Aussie wrote on Jun 29^th, 2019 at 12:10pm:



So tell me --- and no hedging

did qantas express concern for liars, adulterers, idolators and all those contained within Folau's actually FEW comments ?

I wanna know


does Qantas take umbrage on behalf of thieves, those who commit adultery, who lie, who bear false witness or any of the other transgressors in Folau's comments which were drawn from the Bible?

Is Qantas a supporter of liars and adulterers, etc.?

the paying public NEEDS to know

How come Joyce didn't mention the other transgressors ?

Get onto it.  Find out.  Get back to us pronto

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jun 29^th, 2019 at 12:15pm:



he could have squeezed in GRUMPY OLD MEN<>

PZ547 wrote on Jun 29^th, 2019 at 12:14pm:



pz  am not sure Joyce mentioned any group... I think he was distancing Qantas from the lot.....

who are we to JUDGE who will go and not go to HELL...

cods wrote on Jun 29^th, 2019 at 12:19pm:


We do not get to judge those who might go to Heaven or Hell

God is the ultimate judge and I believe in a forgiving God

I have no time for any god who's believed to have 'favourites' any more than I'd have time for a parent who boasted about having a favourite child

God is far more sophisticated than he's portrayed in any of the religious books

God isn't a mere 'person'.  He's the ultimate source of all that exists.  As such, the intelligence must be beyond understanding, as God is said to be.  Beyond our primitive grasp.  So we reduce Him/Her to suit our needs and biases

if someone is born with a preference for the same sex, does anyone actually believe God would reject them?  How small and limited must they imagine God to be if they think he gives a damn what our poor race does with its genitals !

Folau was not judging and he's done and said everything possible for that to be understood

yet still some persist in turning this into a gay issue when it is not, was never intended to be and should not be

but those pushing the gay agenda have seized upon it to Folau AND God's detriment and once again to play 'victim'

Folau has stated umpteen times that he's as fallible as anyone else if the Bible were to be cited.  He used to drink.  He is saddled with tribal tattoos.  All in his past.  He's just a young man who's turned wholeheartedly to religion and believes it to be his duty to preach God's word as are contained within the Bible

Folau is being used as a whipping boy by a very powerful group who have repeatedly taken Folau's comments out of context whilst ignoring that he added, ' [i]must repent and turn to God'

the latter is a very important part of Christian teaching.  Christianity, particularly the New Testament, is ALl about forgiveness, about a loving and forgiving God

would that ALL of us were as forgiving and understanding as the New Testament God

If I borrowed your car and destroyed it, how grateful would I be if -- after I'd apologised -- you said, 'That's ok.  Accidents happen'


If you broke into my home and destroyed things precious to me, how terrific a person would I be if --- when you apologised -- said to you, ' I'm glad you apologised and hope you mean it to the extent you never break into anyone's home again. I forgive you'


That's what Folau said --- God will forgive anything if we apologise and from then on, turn to God -- in short, try to follow God's commandments and turn our back on our previous behaviours, e.g., adultery, lying, bearing false witness, rooting ten guys a night in a nightclub toilet


God wants us to find peace in Heaven. He doesn't want us to suffer away from Heaven.  He doesn't want us to be cast into the cold for eternity.  So he tells us, repent your past and in future try to live in a good way

that's not asking much in return for eternal salvation and escape from torment


And Folau was simply explaining this as a lay person who derived his comments from the Bible


it concerns all of us, every one of us, including but not specific to gays


As for Joyce, he's damaged the brand and despite that he's backed by a powerful gang, it wouldn't surprise me to see him out the door when enough time's gone by so that it can't be seen as chastisement for his inordinate involvement in this matter

no amount of excuses or rationalisation will sway public opinion in Joyce's favour.  He's damaged the brand, thus costing Qantas money.  And money is god to some.  They'll have chewed off his ear now this has backfired as evidenced by the money donated to Folau.  Qantas will now have to back peddle like mad in an effort to mollify the public and sounds as if Joyce has already been told to do just that.  It's not working

The best thing this has done

Is to start the move to put the 3% mentally ill back in their place

By making such a big fuss over nothing to try and play the victim card again

The gay community have set their cause back 10 years

And rightly so, hopefully it will continue and we can wipe this sickness from our midst altogether.

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jun 29^th, 2019 at 12:03pm:


You think k bei g gay is a lifestyle? How? I know several gay ppl and they all have different lifestyles. I think you are confusing sexual orientation with something else.

Spot

freediver wrote on Jun 29^th, 2019 at 10:13am:


Alan Joyce is a liar.... he is as involved in Israels sacking as the ANZ are with trying to take action against his wife through Netball NZ.

Corporate power and infuence in sport pushed by CEO and executive personal agendas and powered by their out of control diversity units needs a large handbrake on it.

cods wrote on Jun 29^th, 2019 at 10:49am:


Did Folau ever mention Alan Joyce or Qantas?

Alan Joyce is a twisty little grub.

Gnads wrote on Jun 29^th, 2019 at 2:06pm:


Oh yes he did Gonads.

Watch and read:

Link.

freediver wrote on Jun 29^th, 2019 at 10:45am:



FD, I've asked several times but each time you've run away.

If you ran a business, and an employee posted something on social media that pissed off your customers and had the potential to cost you tens of hundreds of thousands of dollars or more, would you sack them if they refused to stop posting whatever it was your customers didn't like, or would you tell your customers that they can take their business elsewhere?

cods wrote on Jun 29^th, 2019 at 11:04am:


I don't think it matters (legally) who wanted him sacked. It was RA who sacked him.

John Smith wrote on Jun 29^th, 2019 at 2:52pm:


If he did it at work or claimed to be representing my business, sure.

Folau did not harm Rugby Australia. The homofascists tried to, but I don't see any harm yet.

Quote:


What Filou said (as much as I dislike it) is the official view of most mainstream religions in Australia and is a view that is protected under our Human rights charter.

His right to express this view is also represented in the ARU's code of conduct which is the same document used to sack him on a different clause.

The separate clauses in the ARU's code of conduct are in conflict and the ARU in itself is in breach of its own code of conduct. To be consistent with action taken they would need to sack themselves which would be a sensible and justified move in the circumstances.

The ARU have IMO brought their sport into disrepute to a much greater extent than Filou. They managed to turn a storm in a tea cup into a major international controversy just because they are stupid.

freediver wrote on Jun 29^th, 2019 at 3:05pm:




now you are getting it.....

who has the right of way here...

the employer or the employee..


wheres crook when you need him?..

if RU had told Folau to shut up... completely  or face the sack..

I agree  its taking away his FOS....

but I didnt see where they did that....

I dont know all the facts on this case   

we have to be realistic   I doubt any sponsor signs up to a contract that will cost them millions without have some clauses in it.....

I know I wouldnt be...

so YES the RU has an obligation to their sponsors and I am sure this is brought in loud and clear when they sign a player up.....

if Folau  decided to appear in an ad singing their praises  for Singapore Airlines  do you think he would be breaking his contract??????/....

cods wrote on Jun 29^th, 2019 at 4:40pm:


Quote:


This is what he said, this is paraphrasing the scriptures and it isn't singling out homosexuals, it is including them in the list of sinners.

Quote:

It's fair to blame the government for its pursuit of policies of division and of exclusion.... those mindless policies are the root cause of all the current hardline and escalating fighting going on between certain groups within this society ....

I'm waiting for the full outbreak of JaSin's civil war...

Dnarever wrote on Jun 29^th, 2019 at 7:34pm:


Here you go.  Watch and read.

Link.

bwood1946 wrote on Jun 29^th, 2019 at 2:45pm:


Does it matter?  There...in that link, he IDs his specific target.

freediver wrote on Jun 29^th, 2019 at 10:33am:


Guilty!

Aussie wrote on Jun 29^th, 2019 at 8:04pm:


I'm just the straw that stirs the drink, clit wonderer.

Aussie wrote on Jun 17^th, 2019 at 2:56pm:


http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1560737366/48#48

Rider wrote on Jun 29^th, 2019 at 12:02pm:



You're not the only one rider. More and more are starting to "throw the ball back".
People are fed up with this overrepresented gay movement going on.

We no longer watch TV
I will NEVER fly Qantas while that fart sniffer is the boss.
Our children...as of next year will be home schooled.
Any gay advertising by any company will see me avoid their products.

I don't care if blokes want to be with blokes. The problem I have is that it is being rubbed in our face and pushed on our children through safe schools etc. Quiet frankly I find it extremely offensive.

Aussie wrote on Jun 29^th, 2019 at 7:58pm:


He talks on the topic of homosexuality and how it is moving in main stream Australian politics in his opinion and experience. Not relevant to his sacking.

Aussie wrote on Jun 29^th, 2019 at 9:16pm:


Except that he ascribes the same treatment to adulterers, liars, drunks, fornicators, Thieves, Atheists etc.

Dnarever wrote on Jun 29^th, 2019 at 7:34pm:



well I think hes GREEDY   so that would make him a Labor voter they always want MORE.

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 30^th, 2019 at 6:42am:



Haha.
Touche.....don't ya love this auto correct?

Bloody fabricators.