Australian Politics Forum - The government is lying to us about the economy

aquascoot

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Re: The government is lying to us about the economy
Reply #105 - Aug 19^th, 2019 at 7:10pm

Juliar
If we fast forward 20 years , we will have a very few competent software engineers , scaling up their work thru the use of technology and we will have most people doing what is the equivalent of work for the dole.

I really can't see any other option.

Millions could move from the farms to the factories and then from the factories to the retail malls .
But millions can't now go work at google or amazon.
Instagram, a 100 billion dollar company has a staff of less then that of a nursing home.

Why is this a problem.?

Isn't it going to be preferable to do volunteer work beautifying a national park rather then standing at a checkout for 8 hours a day.

Technology does the work, and people can choose some work that is meaningful to them and they get fed and sheltered.

And you can innovate and make extra cash if you are creative and dynamic.

Win.win.win

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Dnarever

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Re: The government is lying to us about the economy
Reply #106 - Aug 19^th, 2019 at 7:33pm

aquascoot wrote on Aug 19^th, 2019 at 7:10pm:

Juliar
If we fast forward 20 years , we will have a very few competent software engineers , scaling up their work thru the use of technology and we will have most people doing what is the equivalent of work for the dole.

I really can't see any other option.

Millions could move from the farms to the factories and then from the factories to the retail malls .
But millions can't now go work at google or amazon.
Instagram, a 100 billion dollar company has a staff of less then that of a nursing home.

Why is this a problem.?

Isn't it going to be preferable to do volunteer work beautifying a national park rather then standing at a checkout for 8 hours a day.

Technology does the work, and people can choose some work that is meaningful to them and they get fed and sheltered.

And you can innovate and make extra cash if you are creative and dynamic.

Win.win.win

Quote:

we will have a very few competent software engineers , scaling up their work thru the use of technology

Why would we have that when even today 50% of our software engineers are outsourced from India and such at under 30% the cost ?

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juliar Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 22966	Re: The government is lying to us about the economy Reply #107 - Aug 19^th, 2019 at 7:44pm It is because of the Lima Agreement that Whitlam started and that Labor and the Greenies are following. If Labor had got in then just about everything would be outsourced to keep in good with the UN.
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SadKangaroo

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Re: The government is lying to us about the economy
Reply #108 - Aug 19^th, 2019 at 7:53pm

aquascoot wrote on Aug 19^th, 2019 at 7:10pm:

Juliar
If we fast forward 20 years , we will have a very few competent software engineers , scaling up their work thru the use of technology and we will have most people doing what is the equivalent of work for the dole.

I really can't see any other option.

Millions could move from the farms to the factories and then from the factories to the retail malls .
But millions can't now go work at google or amazon.
Instagram, a 100 billion dollar company has a staff of less then that of a nursing home.

Why is this a problem.?

Isn't it going to be preferable to do volunteer work beautifying a national park rather then standing at a checkout for 8 hours a day.

Technology does the work, and people can choose some work that is meaningful to them and they get fed and sheltered.

And you can innovate and make extra cash if you are creative and dynamic.

Win.win.win

You've pretty much just laid out the case for universal basic income...

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philperth2010

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Re: The government is lying to us about the economy
Reply #109 - Aug 19^th, 2019 at 8:05pm

Australia’s economy has deteriorated under the Coalition

Australia’s recent dismal economic management is revealed dramatically when outcomes are compared with the rest of the world. Alan Austin updates the sad and sorry decline.

THE LIES are now coming thick and fast. Last Saturday, Prime Minister Scott Morrison sent an election campaign email (echoed on the Liberal Party website) claiming that only his Government had:

Quote:

'a plan to maintain Budget surpluses, pay down Labor’s debt and lower your taxes’.

They have had more than five years. They have done the opposite, as the hard, cold facts affirm.

So here is a ready reckoner of the wreckage, with links to the actual data. This may help counter the continuing crocks about the Coalition’s economic "credentials".

Gross debt
By 2013, after moderate borrowing in order to stave off recession during the global financial crisis, Australia’s debt was 16.8% of GDP. That was third lowest in the OECD with only Chile and Estonia lower.

Since 2013, many OECD members have reduced their gross debt and some have increased it slightly. Only three have increased it by more than ten per cent of GDP. Of these poorly managed economies – Australia, Mexico and Chile – Australia’s blow-out has been the worst, at 11.6% of GDP. Australia’s debt now ranks eighth in the OECD.

Taxation levels
During the Howard years, taxes relative to GDP hit 24.3%. Collections fell during the Rudd/Gillard period then rose again under the Coalition:

Read the rest here....

https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/australias-economy-ha...

Roll Eyes

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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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aquascoot

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Re: The government is lying to us about the economy
Reply #110 - Aug 19^th, 2019 at 8:27pm

SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 19^th, 2019 at 7:53pm:

aquascoot wrote on Aug 19^th, 2019 at 7:10pm:

Juliar
If we fast forward 20 years , we will have a very few competent software engineers , scaling up their work thru the use of technology and we will have most people doing what is the equivalent of work for the dole.

I really can't see any other option.

Millions could move from the farms to the factories and then from the factories to the retail malls .
But millions can't now go work at google or amazon.
Instagram, a 100 billion dollar company has a staff of less then that of a nursing home.

Why is this a problem.?

Isn't it going to be preferable to do volunteer work beautifying a national park rather then standing at a checkout for 8 hours a day.

Technology does the work, and people can choose some work that is meaningful to them and they get fed and sheltered.

And you can innovate and make extra cash if you are creative and dynamic.

Win.win.win

You've pretty much just laid out the case for universal basic income...

I think UBI is inevitable BUT you can't just give people cash and no responsibility or they wither.

So you will get UBI linked to a requirement to do something "worthy"
And you can still barter and market and create and trade and climb the capitalist hierachy
With a safety net , so you can take more risks.
Most people will be in some sort of work for the dole situation.

But human work is no longer necessary to provide wealth when technology can provide wealth better then humans.

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philperth2010

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Re: The government is lying to us about the economy
Reply #111 - Aug 19^th, 2019 at 8:28pm

Quote:

Retailers also thrown on the Coalition’s scrapheap

Along with pensioners, Newstart recipients and low-income earners, the Morrison Government has now abandoned retailers. Alan Austin reports.

HOG'S BREATH steakhouses are the latest Australian eateries to close some of their retail outlets. Surviving cafes, restaurants and takeaway food companies are under severe stress. As is most of the retail industry.

Friday’s (2 August) Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) retail sales figures confirm Australia is enduring its worst retail trade period on record.

Why? Because Australian citizens no longer have the discretionary spending power they have long enjoyed. That this is happening during an extraordinary worldwide boom in investment, jobs, growth and profits is a damning indictment of the Morrison Government’s economic management. Another one.

The dismal data
The monthly rise in retail turnover in June 2019 over June the year before was just 2.68%, one of the lowest on record. The average rise, June over June, through the 36 years for which the ABS has data, is 5.8%.

Turnover for the full 12 months of the financial year 2018-19 was $325.4 billion. This sounds a lot, but it isn’t really. It is an increase of only $9.6 billion, or 3.04% over the previous year. Given population increased 1.77% and inflation is 1.6%, that is a decline in turnover in real dollars, relative to population.

Historic low in Australia
This year’s result is only fractionally above last year’s abysmal 2.56%, the worst outcome ever. The year before that was just 3.13%. So for three consecutive years, the growth in retail sales has been below 3.2% and thus below the natural increase in population and prices. The only time in 36 years.

The average growth for the 30 years prior to this hapless administration taking charge is 6.10%.

Global comparisons
The monthly June on June result of 2.68% can be compared with the rest of the world at tradingeconomics.com. Australia today is nowhere near the leaders, where it has always been under previous governments. It now ranks 16th among the 35 comparable wealthy, developed OECD economies.

Segments stagnating
The only retail segment to advance over the last financial year was pharmaceuticals and cosmetics. Those that just managed to break even were supermarkets and groceries, food and clothing. Segments which went backwards marginally included liquor, restaurants and cafes, takeaway food, footwear and personal accessories, hardware, building and gardening. Disastrous downturns were experienced by department stores, furniture, textiles, electrical and electronic products, household goods, newspapers and books and recreational goods.

The financial year just ended was the worst on record for recreational goods, tumbling 3.56% over the year. There have been occasional negative years before, but this was the worst.

Read the rest here....

https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/retailers-also-thrown...

Roll Eyes

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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
Isaac Asimov (1920 - 1992)

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Dnarever

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Re: The government is lying to us about the economy
Reply #112 - Aug 19^th, 2019 at 8:55pm

juliar wrote on Aug 19^th, 2019 at 7:44pm:

It is because of the Lima Agreement that Whitlam started and that Labor and the Greenies are following.

If Labor had got in then just about everything would be outsourced to keep in good with the UN.

What all those Liberal governments since 1975 didn't stop it but the greens who have never formed government are somehow responsible for a decision made 17 years before the party was formed ?

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« Last Edit: Aug 19^th, 2019 at 9:04pm by Dnarever »

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philperth2010

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Re: The government is lying to us about the economy
Reply #113 - Aug 19^th, 2019 at 9:16pm

Dnarever wrote on Aug 19^th, 2019 at 8:55pm:

juliar wrote on Aug 19^th, 2019 at 7:44pm:

It is because of the Lima Agreement that Whitlam started and that Labor and the Greenies are following.

If Labor had got in then just about everything would be outsourced to keep in good with the UN.

What all those Liberal governments since 1975 didn't stop it but the greens who have never formed government are somehow responsible for a decision made 17 years before the party was formed ?

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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
Isaac Asimov (1920 - 1992)

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: The government is lying to us about the economy
Reply #114 - Aug 20^th, 2019 at 9:01am

aquascoot wrote on Aug 19^th, 2019 at 8:27pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 19^th, 2019 at 7:53pm:

aquascoot wrote on Aug 19^th, 2019 at 7:10pm:

Juliar
If we fast forward 20 years , we will have a very few competent software engineers , scaling up their work thru the use of technology and we will have most people doing what is the equivalent of work for the dole.

I really can't see any other option.

Millions could move from the farms to the factories and then from the factories to the retail malls .
But millions can't now go work at google or amazon.
Instagram, a 100 billion dollar company has a staff of less then that of a nursing home.

Why is this a problem.?

Isn't it going to be preferable to do volunteer work beautifying a national park rather then standing at a checkout for 8 hours a day.

Technology does the work, and people can choose some work that is meaningful to them and they get fed and sheltered.

And you can innovate and make extra cash if you are creative and dynamic.

Win.win.win

You've pretty much just laid out the case for universal basic income...

I think UBI is inevitable BUT you can't just give people cash and no responsibility or they wither.

So you will get UBI linked to a requirement to do something "worthy"
And you can still barter and market and create and trade and climb the capitalist hierachy
With a safety net , so you can take more risks.
Most people will be in some sort of work for the dole situation.

But human work is no longer necessary to provide wealth when technology can provide wealth better then humans.

.. no, but a guaranteed level of human income is necessary to sustain trade in goods finished by machines..... funny how that works..... so your options are few, and I can't see people readily accepting work for the income as being viable... doing some silly make-work to justify the cash the global economy needs to function at all .....

I'd say there will be a gnashing of machines first.....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Bam Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21905 Gender:	Re: The government is lying to us about the economy Reply #115 - Aug 20^th, 2019 at 10:31am aquascoot wrote on Aug 19^th, 2019 at 8:27pm: But human work is no longer necessary to provide wealth when technology can provide wealth better then humans. Wealth? For whom? The workers who make it or the fat cat CEO middlemen who take it?
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Sir lastnail Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 29706 Gender:	Re: The government is lying to us about the economy Reply #116 - Aug 20^th, 2019 at 10:48am Apparently Trump has asked the central bank to start printing money LOL
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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 131540 Gender:	Re: The government is lying to us about the economy Reply #117 - Aug 20^th, 2019 at 10:54am Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 20^th, 2019 at 10:48am: Apparently Trump has asked the central bank to start printing money LOL With his face on it?
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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: The government is lying to us about the economy
Reply #118 - Aug 20^th, 2019 at 10:59am

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 20^th, 2019 at 10:54am:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 20^th, 2019 at 10:48am:

Apparently Trump has asked the central bank to start printing money Cheesy

LOL

With his face on it?

I think you have confused toilet paper and money - not that there will be a difference in america when hes finished with the place

Spot

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juliar Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 22966	Re: The government is lying to us about the economy Reply #119 - Aug 20^th, 2019 at 11:02am Labor lied constantly about the deteriorating economy as the useless Swanny lurched from stuffup to disaster.
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