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Time for Bradfield's scheme? (Read 10072 times)
UnSubRocky
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Re: Time for Bradfield's scheme?
Reply #150 - Jul 11th, 2019 at 1:19pm
 
Gnads wrote on Jul 11th, 2019 at 8:21am:
No ... you've undermined your own.

The issue is about water ... expanding irrigation to lands where once there was none uses more & more water.

You're the one who wanted to irrigate the interior.


I wanted people in rural and remote regions to have access to water and water efficient storage. I don't recall saying anything about wanting to irrigate the interior. I wanted the interior to get its "slow but steady" planting of halophytes to try and undo the salinity of soils where it is at its worst.
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Re: Time for Bradfield's scheme?
Reply #151 - Jul 11th, 2019 at 9:59pm
 
UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 11th, 2019 at 1:19pm:
Gnads wrote on Jul 11th, 2019 at 8:21am:
No ... you've undermined your own.

The issue is about water ... expanding irrigation to lands where once there was none uses more & more water.

You're the one who wanted to irrigate the interior.


I wanted people in rural and remote regions to have access to water and water efficient storage. I don't recall saying anything about wanting to irrigate the interior. I wanted the interior to get its "slow but steady" planting of halophytes to try and undo the salinity of soils where it is at its worst.


So why do you want to dam the rivers flowing into Lake Eyre?

It's already been explained to you that salt resistant plants already grow out there ... look up Australian species of Salt Bush.

You also realise that much of that country is classed as desert anyway?

I don't know if you're too thick to realise how silly your suggestion is about planting your halophytes in our interior i.e. Lake Eyre region which will continue to stay salt affected as it has for thousands of years whilst a vast river system flows into it bringing all the minerals salts from across thousands of square kilometres of country.

Salt resistant plants are already there and no one who lives out there uses the land other than for grazing. Their fresh waters come from bores, and natural springs.

Restoring small areas of salt affected country previously agricultural that has been made that way by land clearing & irrigation causing water table rises is possible.

What you're suggesting is ridiculous.
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Re: Time for Bradfield's scheme?
Reply #152 - Jul 12th, 2019 at 3:11am
 
The reason why I want a more efficient river system and a number of new dams is to help with the water allocation in regional and rural areas. I don't know if you have bothered to look at my location. But, the location I live is actually "Rockhampton". Perhaps we don't get flooding all that often. Our flooding in CQ is about once every 3 years. Flooding is often enough in my town that our local council had to get state funding to build access roads south of town for those times when it floods. We are also in the process of having a bypass, incidentally a road that goes through flood-prone areas, for the sake of access to the north of town.

And the reason Rockhampton gets that occasional flooding is that there is a rush of water inland that flows into river systems and lead into the Fitzroy. So, for a few days, my town gets inconvenienced by flood water that floods 20% of the town. What is also apparent is that in as little as a month after the town has recovered from the flood, towns 300 to 500km west of here, where the river systems there have been known to link onto the Fitzroy, have their green areas start to turn brown from a lack of water. The dams out there may still be full. But there are areas relying on follow up rainfall that has to rely on getting tanks of water delivered out to them. Why not have a more efficient water collection system? Or perhaps redirect flood water to places that need to store water for a couple more weeks, rather than see the flood water wash out to sea along the Fitzroy? I would rather two things be solved with one idea. Flood reduction along the Fitzroy River. And more water for rural areas.

I understand that there are plants that are salt tolerant. But some halophytes actually return degraded soil to a good standard for fertility. Saltgrow Eucalyptus camaldulensis x globulus hybrid has been featured as one such plant to have general success on farmland. I wish that the government would go about funding the planting of such trees in areas that have been degraded. It is not about planting these trees in areas that are of no use to farmers.

Quote:
You also realise that much of that country is classed as desert anyway?


Awww-really? .... Really, Gnads? Is that why my town gets hot dry weather blowing across from the westerlies anytime from October to March? Because there is a desert out there? Gee... who woulda thunk it?

Look, it may seem sophomoric to go about trying to make Australia 90% forest land. But, that is not what I was trying to propose. My proposition was to get areas that have a large enough population to plant seedlings of these salt-remedying plants to try and bring about decades worth of desalinating soils. Maybe you are not interested in seeing a reduction in the loss of top soil when the wind blows. But I bet the farmers are sick of it. Saline soils are the main reason the Earth dries up quickly. Even modest rainfall is not enough for some areas.

Quote:
I don't know if you're too thick to realise how silly your suggestion is about planting your halophytes in our interior i.e. Lake Eyre region which will continue to stay salt affected as it has for thousands of years whilst a vast river system flows into it bringing all the minerals salts from across thousands of square kilometres of country.


*sigh* I think I mentioned a desalination plant being used for not only getting drinking water for times when the Lake Eyre is filled, but also to very slowly desalinate the area. But the point is conceded. It would be too costly to maintain a desalination plant for an area of 100,000sq km that would probably have not even 100,000 people living there. And I think I made a point earlier acknowledging how silly it would be to turn part of Lake Eyre into a dam.

Quote:
Salt resistant plants are already there and no one who lives out there uses the land other than for grazing. Their fresh waters come from bores, and natural springs.


It is not about acknowledging that there are plants that tolerate saline soils. It is about turning soils into useful soils that can help feed these grazing animals. I would rather see 100,000 saltgrow seedlings being strategically planted around farming areas that require soil remediation, over the next 20 years. Better than to put up with "Oh, its the way nature intended it" attitudes. To pre-emp any further rubbish from you, I don't want to see these plants wasted in areas 500km away from the nearest town, where the farmers see no benefit. Australia is not going to become one large forest. But, we should have more trees that can handle the rural interior than we have. Doing nothing, like you propose, is what is ridiculous.
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Re: Time for Bradfield's scheme?
Reply #153 - Jul 12th, 2019 at 8:29am
 
UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 12th, 2019 at 3:11am:
The reason why I want a more efficient river system and a number of new dams is to help with the water allocation in regional and rural areas. I don't know if you have bothered to look at my location. But, the location I live is actually "Rockhampton". Perhaps we don't get flooding all that often. Our flooding in CQ is about once every 3 years. Flooding is often enough in my town that our local council had to get state funding to build access roads south of town for those times when it floods. We are also in the process of having a bypass, incidentally a road that goes through flood-prone areas, for the sake of access to the north of town.

And the reason Rockhampton gets that occasional flooding is that there is a rush of water inland that flows into river systems and lead into the Fitzroy. So, for a few days, my town gets inconvenienced by flood water that floods 20% of the town. What is also apparent is that in as little as a month after the town has recovered from the flood, towns 300 to 500km west of here, where the river systems there have been known to link onto the Fitzroy, have their green areas start to turn brown from a lack of water. The dams out there may still be full. But there are areas relying on follow up rainfall that has to rely on getting tanks of water delivered out to them. Why not have a more efficient water collection system? Or perhaps redirect flood water to places that need to store water for a couple more weeks, rather than see the flood water wash out to sea along the Fitzroy? I would rather two things be solved with one idea. Flood reduction along the Fitzroy River. And more water for rural areas.

I understand that there are plants that are salt tolerant. But some halophytes actually return degraded soil to a good standard for fertility. Saltgrow Eucalyptus camaldulensis x globulus hybrid has been featured as one such plant to have general success on farmland. I wish that the government would go about funding the planting of such trees in areas that have been degraded. It is not about planting these trees in areas that are of no use to farmers.

Quote:
You also realise that much of that country is classed as desert anyway?


Awww-really? .... Really, Gnads? Is that why my town gets hot dry weather blowing across from the westerlies anytime from October to March? Because there is a desert out there? Gee... who woulda thunk it?

Look, it may seem sophomoric to go about trying to make Australia 90% forest land. But, that is not what I was trying to propose. My proposition was to get areas that have a large enough population to plant seedlings of these salt-remedying plants to try and bring about decades worth of desalinating soils. Maybe you are not interested in seeing a reduction in the loss of top soil when the wind blows. But I bet the farmers are sick of it. Saline soils are the main reason the Earth dries up quickly. Even modest rainfall is not enough for some areas.

Quote:
I don't know if you're too thick to realise how silly your suggestion is about planting your halophytes in our interior i.e. Lake Eyre region which will continue to stay salt affected as it has for thousands of years whilst a vast river system flows into it bringing all the minerals salts from across thousands of square kilometres of country.


*sigh* I think I mentioned a desalination plant being used for not only getting drinking water for times when the Lake Eyre is filled, but also to very slowly desalinate the area. But the point is conceded. It would be too costly to maintain a desalination plant for an area of 100,000sq km that would probably have not even 100,000 people living there. And I think I made a point earlier acknowledging how silly it would be to turn part of Lake Eyre into a dam.

Quote:
Salt resistant plants are already there and no one who lives out there uses the land other than for grazing. Their fresh waters come from bores, and natural springs.


It is not about acknowledging that there are plants that tolerate saline soils. It is about turning soils into useful soils that can help feed these grazing animals. I would rather see 100,000 saltgrow seedlings being strategically planted around farming areas that require soil remediation, over the next 20 years. Better than to put up with "Oh, its the way nature intended it" attitudes. To pre-emp any further rubbish from you, I don't want to see these plants wasted in areas 500km away from the nearest town, where the farmers see no benefit. Australia is not going to become one large forest. But, we should have more trees that can handle the rural interior than we have. Doing nothing, like you propose, is what is ridiculous.


Grin You're sarcasm is sophmoric too.

I never mentioned anything about Rocky being affected by desert winds. And really it isn't. It's in a hollow between the Great Divide & Mount Archer... making it a stinking hot hole in summer regardless of which way the wind blows. It's on the Tropic of Capricorn .. NO?  Grin

btw did you eat a Thesaurus this morning?  Tongue

Stick to what you know best, whatever you think that is ... you really wouldn't have a clue in this area.

I reckon I know more than you do about the Fitzroy Catchment and flooding in Rockhampton.

That wouldn't be hard considering how little you know about the rest of the country.
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Re: Time for Bradfield's scheme?
Reply #154 - Jul 12th, 2019 at 12:50pm
 
Rockhampton actually sits bounded by a couple mountain ranges to the west and east. During the summer season, we get winds blowing in from the north and east. During those times, there is either a higher chance of rain, or it is very humid. Otherwise, we get hot northwesterlies or westerlies blowing in desert air. Hot and dry are those days. During our winter, we get southerly or southwesterly winds that blow in nothing but dry cool weather. Rockhampton is too far west to be tropical. Too fast east to semi-arid. Too far north to be temperate/sub-tropical. We rely on monsoon troughs moving far south enough to get good rain. And we seem to be bordering on the point where it does not get cold here during the winter.

And I must have lived through 10 major flooding events during my upbringing in this town. That is enough to know why and how the flooding occurs in a town that does not receive that much rain annually.

I shall consider your last response a white flag from you. You seem too focussed on Lake Eyre to be bothered about farming communities.
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Re: Time for Bradfield's scheme?
Reply #155 - Jul 12th, 2019 at 1:22pm
 
UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 12th, 2019 at 12:50pm:
Rockhampton actually sits bounded by a couple mountain ranges to the west and east. During the summer season, we get winds blowing in from the north and east. During those times, there is either a higher chance of rain, or it is very humid. Otherwise, we get hot northwesterlies or westerlies blowing in desert air. Hot and dry are those days. During our winter, we get southerly or southwesterly winds that blow in nothing but dry cool weather. Rockhampton is too far west to be tropical. Too fast east to semi-arid. Too far north to be temperate/sub-tropical. We rely on monsoon troughs moving far south enough to get good rain. And we seem to be bordering on the point where it does not get cold here during the winter.

And I must have lived through 10 major flooding events during my upbringing in this town. That is enough to know why and how the flooding occurs in a town that does not receive that much rain annually.

I shall consider your last response a white flag from you. You seem too focussed on Lake Eyre to be bothered about farming communities.


Well durrrrrh ...that's what I said you echo...

what's the Great Dividing range? (West of Rocky) ... what's Mt Archer/Mt. Archer National Park?(East of Rocky)

Rockhampton too far west to be tropical?  Grin Grin
It's 29klm as the crow flies to the coast.

How far you are into the Tropics depends on your north/south latitude. Between the Tropic of Capricorn and the Equator.

The old Tropic of Capricorn markers are out on Old Port Curtis Road(old highway) beside the Woolwash south of Rocky.

Whether you like it or not Rocky is in the Tropics ... whether or not it's the dry tropics is irrelevant. Everyone knows it's not the wet tropics.

And it doesn't take an Einstein to know that when a catchment is as large as the Fitzroy(142,665 square kilometres) that it only has to have substanial rains west of Mackay/Nebo down to Clermont & Emerald for it to flood in Rocky when it's had next to no rain.

I'll remind you again that your first input to this post was about using the water flowing into & planting salt resistant plants from Lake Eyre to save the people in regional dry Australia ... and QLD.

How much have you donated to the likes of Buy a Bale etc.?

Grin Grin I wasn't under attack why would I need to raise the white flag?

How would I be? ....you don't even know which way is up or which way the wind is blowing.

So stop trying to weasel out of what you started.
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« Last Edit: Jul 12th, 2019 at 1:28pm by Gnads »  

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Re: Time for Bradfield's scheme?
Reply #156 - Jul 12th, 2019 at 3:39pm
 
Page one of this topic opened with me saying this:

Quote:
We would probably be better off with a man-made river system extending rivers or diverting excess water flow into accessible dams. Had the Bradfield scheme been plausible to create, we would have done so already. How are you going to see flood water in the north and northeast of Australia diverted inland?


Took me until page 6 to get to this point:

Imagine 100,000 of those trees being planted out in saline areas of Australia's desert. Dust storms won't be much of a problem. Possibility of the renewed use of land in desert areas for something more useful.

By page 7, I had said this:

Quote:
Being 15 metres below sea level, yes. I was probably thinking too much about the Dead Sea project.


That was the opening you needed to start trying to re-educate me. I actually corrected myself and started distancing myself away from damming part of the Lake Eyre. I will repeat from an earlier post: The point is conceded. We can count that issue as where I was being sophomoric.

Quote:
Well durrrrrh ...that's what I said you echo...


Call it a rapport build. Obviously, it did not work. I reinforced what you had stated to make sure that you knew what you were writing. That being that the ranges get in the way of any particular prevailing climatic condition. When the easterlies or northerlies blow in humid air, the Berserker Rangers block much of the rainfall making its way west. I have watched incoming rainfall on Rain Alarm getting blocked by the ranges and Cawarral gets the rainfall. It is also the partial reason why Cyclone Marcia was downgraded from a category 4 system to a category 2 system when it reached town. The westerly winds blowing in from inland regions does bring about hot weather. But, because the Athelstane Range to the west of Rockhampton gets in the way, the winds either have to come up from Port Curtis to the south, or through the north west near the airport. Otherwise, the range blocks hot wind and shades the area in the afternoon enough to keep the area cooler than usual. We are not going to see our 45 degree record being broken anytime soon.

Quote:
Rockhampton too far west to be tropical?  Grin Grin
It's 29klm as the crow flies to the coast.


800mm of rainfall per year might not be desert like conditions. But, it is far from being tropical conditions. Our record rainfall (for a long time) of 1600mm of rain, a few years ago, did green up the place. But, this year, we are about 210mm. Laughable to suggest tropical weather. Yeppoon is tropical. Rockhampton is not.

Quote:
I'll remind you again that your first input to this post was about using the water flowing into & planting salt resistant plants from Lake Eyre to save the people in regional dry Australia ... and QLD.


And I will remind you that I said the planting of halophyte plants to regenerate saline soils should be in farming areas. I did mention planting saltgrow plants around Lake Eyre. But, it would take a hundred years before the plants (if they survive sufficiently in number) before they have done any good. Anywhere east of Lake Eyre around farming areas should be where the planting should take place. Western NSW, southwest Qld, northwestern Victoria. They are actually planting saltgrow hybrid plants in South Australia east of Adelaide to see how things go. So, either of us debating that we should or should not be doing the planting of such trees is actually redundant.

Until I receive word that the planting of trees has failed to produce considerable results, I shall consider that I have won the debate on my side of the argument.

Oh, and I have only donated a $1, during my shopping yesterday, for farmer food aid. And about $1.40 for the milk levy when I bought 7 bottles of milk for the fortnight -- I like my coffee.
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Re: Time for Bradfield's scheme?
Reply #157 - Jul 12th, 2019 at 6:37pm
 
Yeah I'll concede .... you are a complete dickhead.
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UnSubRocky
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Re: Time for Bradfield's scheme?
Reply #158 - Jul 12th, 2019 at 9:16pm
 
Gnads wrote on Jul 12th, 2019 at 6:37pm:
Yeah I'll concede .... you are a complete dickhead.


From here on, that will make us enemies. And you will lament that. On second thought, you might enjoy the peace and quiet.
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« Last Edit: Jul 12th, 2019 at 11:20pm by UnSubRocky »  
 
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Re: Time for Bradfield's scheme?
Reply #159 - Jul 13th, 2019 at 8:12am
 
UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 12th, 2019 at 9:16pm:
Gnads wrote on Jul 12th, 2019 at 6:37pm:
Yeah I'll concede .... you are a complete dickhead.


From here on, that will make us enemies. And you will lament that. On second thought, you might enjoy the peace and quiet.


After your bs effort here

DILLIGAF
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Re: Time for Bradfield's scheme?
Reply #160 - Jul 13th, 2019 at 8:29am
 
UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 12th, 2019 at 3:11am:
The reason why I want a more efficient river system and a number of new dams is to help with the water allocation in regional and rural areas. I don't know if you have bothered to look at my location. But, the location I live is actually "Rockhampton". Perhaps we don't get flooding all that often. Our flooding in CQ is about once every 3 years. Flooding is often enough in my town that our local council had to get state funding to build access roads south of town for those times when it floods. We are also in the process of having a bypass, incidentally a road that goes through flood-prone areas, for the sake of access to the north of town.

And the reason Rockhampton gets that occasional flooding is that there is a rush of water inland that flows into river systems and lead into the Fitzroy. So, for a few days, my town gets inconvenienced by flood water that floods 20% of the town. What is also apparent is that in as little as a month after the town has recovered from the flood, towns 300 to 500km west of here, where the river systems there have been known to link onto the Fitzroy, have their green areas start to turn brown from a lack of water. The dams out there may still be full. But there are areas relying on follow up rainfall that has to rely on getting tanks of water delivered out to them. Why not have a more efficient water collection system? Or perhaps redirect flood water to places that need to store water for a couple more weeks, rather than see the flood water wash out to sea along the Fitzroy? I would rather two things be solved with one idea. Flood reduction along the Fitzroy River. And more water for rural areas.

I understand that there are plants that are salt tolerant. But some halophytes actually return degraded soil to a good standard for fertility. Saltgrow Eucalyptus camaldulensis x globulus hybrid has been featured as one such plant to have general success on farmland. I wish that the government would go about funding the planting of such trees in areas that have been degraded. It is not about planting these trees in areas that are of no use to farmers.

Quote:
You also realise that much of that country is classed as desert anyway?


Awww-really? .... Really, Gnads? Is that why my town gets hot dry weather blowing across from the westerlies anytime from October to March? Because there is a desert out there? Gee... who woulda thunk it?

Look, it may seem sophomoric to go about trying to make Australia 90% forest land. But, that is not what I was trying to propose. My proposition was to get areas that have a large enough population to plant seedlings of these salt-remedying plants to try and bring about decades worth of desalinating soils. Maybe you are not interested in seeing a reduction in the loss of top soil when the wind blows. But I bet the farmers are sick of it. Saline soils are the main reason the Earth dries up quickly. Even modest rainfall is not enough for some areas.

Quote:
I don't know if you're too thick to realise how silly your suggestion is about planting your halophytes in our interior i.e. Lake Eyre region which will continue to stay salt affected as it has for thousands of years whilst a vast river system flows into it bringing all the minerals salts from across thousands of square kilometres of country.


*sigh* I think I mentioned a desalination plant being used for not only getting drinking water for times when the Lake Eyre is filled, but also to very slowly desalinate the area. But the point is conceded. It would be too costly to maintain a desalination plant for an area of 100,000sq km that would probably have not even 100,000 people living there. And I think I made a point earlier acknowledging how silly it would be to turn part of Lake Eyre into a dam.

Quote:
Salt resistant plants are already there and no one who lives out there uses the land other than for grazing. Their fresh waters come from bores, and natural springs.


It is not about acknowledging that there are plants that tolerate saline soils. It is about turning soils into useful soils that can help feed these grazing animals. I would rather see 100,000 saltgrow seedlings being strategically planted around farming areas that require soil remediation, over the next 20 years. Better than to put up with "Oh, its the way nature intended it" attitudes. To pre-emp any further rubbish from you, I don't want to see these plants wasted in areas 500km away from the nearest town, where the farmers see no benefit. Australia is not going to become one large forest. But, we should have more trees that can handle the rural interior than we have. Doing nothing, like you propose, is what is ridiculous.


Do you have any suggestions of what a "more efficient system" looks like?
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Re: Time for Bradfield's scheme?
Reply #161 - Jul 13th, 2019 at 2:10pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 13th, 2019 at 8:29am:
Do you have any suggestions of what a "more efficient system" looks like?


Well established river systems need little help. But rivers where they get flooding every so many years and leads to catastrophic loss of livestock and people being cut off for a week because the water is not going anywhere. Those rivers need to be widened. Or they need extra dams strategically placed for extra water storage. Those rivers in western Qld that flooded earlier this year need better flood mitigation. I don't really want a drought prone region to waste water with floodwater only going out to sea instead of it being used more long term.
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Re: Time for Bradfield's scheme?
Reply #162 - Jul 13th, 2019 at 2:14pm
 
Gnads wrote on Jul 13th, 2019 at 8:12am:
UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 12th, 2019 at 9:16pm:
Gnads wrote on Jul 12th, 2019 at 6:37pm:
Yeah I'll concede .... you are a complete dickhead.


From here on, that will make us enemies. And you will lament that. On second thought, you might enjoy the peace and quiet.


After your bs effort here

DILLIGAF


How old are you?
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Re: Time for Bradfield's scheme?
Reply #163 - Jul 13th, 2019 at 3:19pm
 
UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 13th, 2019 at 2:10pm:
freediver wrote on Jul 13th, 2019 at 8:29am:
Do you have any suggestions of what a "more efficient system" looks like?


Well established river systems need little help. But rivers where they get flooding every so many years and leads to catastrophic loss of livestock and people being cut off for a week because the water is not going anywhere. Those rivers need to be widened. Or they need extra dams strategically placed for extra water storage. Those rivers in western Qld that flooded earlier this year need better flood mitigation. I don't really want a drought prone region to waste water with floodwater only going out to sea instead of it being used more long term.


So tell us about your idea of widening rivers...
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Re: Time for Bradfield's scheme?
Reply #164 - Jul 13th, 2019 at 3:37pm
 
There are things called bulldozers, freediver. During the dry season, they can be used.
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