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Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam (Read 6733 times)
aquascoot
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Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Jun 16th, 2019 at 7:51am
 
i admire this lady very much.
she was in the dutch parliament and her publisher was murdered.
a spine of steel

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PZ547
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #1 - Jun 16th, 2019 at 9:01am
 
Aqua, does she explain or attempt to justify female genital mutilation?

Was she subjected to FGM?

I haven't watched the video yet, but don't want to bother if she hasn't taken islam to task

thanks
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #2 - Jun 16th, 2019 at 9:54am
 
PZ547 wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 9:01am:
Aqua, does she explain or attempt to justify female genital mutilation?

Was she subjected to FGM?

I haven't watched the video yet, but don't want to bother if she hasn't taken islam to task

thanks



yes she was.
she talks about it and her upbringing .
it was just the norm.

she talks about the simplicity of surrendering to a belief system, but how , when she went to the west, she could not reconcile that belief system with what she saw as western values.

she is quite an extraordinary woman .

there are so few people who have left the faith and have a spine to talk about it.
and , indeed, we see why.
she has been the subject of death threats and her publisher was killed.
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PZ547
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #3 - Jun 16th, 2019 at 10:34am
 
Thanks for your reply, Aqua

It didn't click when I looked at the video stub, but the moment you began talking about her, I realised who she is.  Of course.  I've read about her, not in depth

So, is education the solution?  She was willing to take other views on board.  Wonder how common her story is? 

In the past, in here, I've said I believe it's just a matter of time and gradual assimilation before perhaps third or fourth generation islamic migrants let go of their forebears' beliefs and values.  I've seen it with Christian Lebanese -- the parents were completely unschooled and after arriving in Australia in the 50s/60s were distraught when their children (brought as infants to Australia) chose to live like their Aussie friends.  The parents attempted to beat and bully their kids into remaining within the Lebanese community, but they simply succeeded in alienating their own children. Even the language became a barrier because their kids weren't fluent in their parents dialect

Now the members of that family are into their third generation in Australia.  The grandchildren of the original migrant grandparents have for the most part married within their Lebanese community (which is a very small number, worldwide) but their friends are from every nationality.  And no doubt the fourth generation (great grandchildren of the original migrant couple) will stretch even further outside the Lebanese community, possibly marry those of different nationalities

all that seems a great length of time, but actually it's occurred within an ordinary human lifespan of roughly seventy years

The children of the first migrant couple mentioned above were torn and rebelled not only against their parents' migrant community, but also against Australians.  They robbed, raped, bashed, etc.  Aussies copped the brunt of it.  To be suspected is that it's similar within the middle eastern muslim migrants

The rebellion issue is understandable.  Middle easterners are tribal in many cases.  They know strength lies in numbers.  The parents hammer the kids with their religion and make them feel guilty, traitors, if they stray.  But those migrant kids want to conform with Aussies.  So they're torn and feel guilty whichever way they turn.  For kids raised in unsophisticated homes, it's very difficult.  They feel inferior compared to Aussie kids, so they join gangs to 'get even' with those whom they'd actually like to be

The misogyny remains a huge problem regardless of the passing of time, unfortunately.  But that's true of the wider community, regardless of nationality

We have muslim neighbours.  They were obviously brought here when young or were born here, because they speak Aussie English like natives, although when together they speak their own language.  They don't bother anyone, everyone says gooday to them and so on

The problem seems to be Islamic education/schools, which would obviously perpetuate, as intended, the religion, etc.  Hard for them to assimilate when kids are closeted in Islamic schools and unable to mix from childhood with the host population

but, also the reverse comes into play.  If I were a child seeing an outside world and warned about participating in it, I'd for sure develop a healthy curiosity about that outside world and as I grew older, I'd be drawn to it simply because my repressive parents were a pain in the bum.  My question would be, Why bring me here if you stop me from actually living here?  And I'd be correct.  For sure, the Lebanese kids I mentioned earlier were of that attitude and the more their parents tried to hold them within the Lebanese community, the more those kids fought to break free of it

Also, the Islamic fence can't be erected when migrant kids start attending university.  So I'm trusting that muslims will adopt Australia and more fully with each passing generation

but the Usual Parasites will have to be prevented from sending any more African muslims to our country, because there are more social issues to be feared with them than just that of religion.  The Parasites have done their best, aided by some in government, paid by Aussies, to give us a never-ending race problem, as they did with the US (and now Europe generally).  The Parasites don't want them though.  The Parasites claim they must protect their 'homogeneity'  Grin  (meaning, I guess, all those red haired Russian settler garbage)
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Gordon
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #4 - Jun 16th, 2019 at 11:16am
 
According to the Southern Poverty Law Center , she's an extremist responsible for hate speech.
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #5 - Jun 16th, 2019 at 12:55pm
 
aquascoot wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 9:54am:

there are so few people who have left the faith and have a spine to talk about it.

and , indeed, we see why.

she has been the subject of death threats and her publisher was killed.





No one is permitted to leave ISLAM.

It is against the law.

ISLAMIC law.





Mohammed, the revered Messenger of Allah made it law.

THE HADITH....

"...the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."
- DEAD.
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260




.




IMAGE....
...

Yassmin Abdel-Magied



Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1549975504/0#0
Quote:

"Me praying five times a day, is sharia."

- Yassmin Abdel-Magied





To all naive non-moslems, filthy, LYING moslems will portray ISLAMIC law as something benign [as something which is not dangerous, to non-moslems].

That, is simply moslems LYING, and misrepresenting the 'nature' and character of ISLAM.

Many, many moslems, will - - shamelessly - - do that!!!




Many moslems who are citizens of, and who are living in the West, will openly admit to their non-moslem co-citizens, that it is their deep, deep desire, to impose ISLAMIC law upon the secular nation where they live.
...n.b.    these are secular nations,       which many moslems came to, as supposed asylum seekers,
claiming to be seeking a safe sanctuary from oppression.
because they had to flee their own 'homeland' nations.
nations where ISLAMIC law, was the law of the land.



.



IMO, for our protection, all moslems need to be socially isolated.

Why so ?

So that moslems can play their murderous, supremacist games, only among their own kind.
....and they do!!!


only ONE example....
Yadda said.....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1333935983/0#0



.



IMAGE....
...

'Aussie' EX-moslem, Mohamed Elomar, doing 'good works' in Syria/Iraq.



Quote:

'Whosoever dies without participating in an expedition (jihad) nor having the intention to do so, dies on a branch of hypocrisy,'


- 'Aussie' EX-moslem, Mohamed Elomar, quoting ISLAMIC scripture.



.



Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1542007568/2#2
Quote:

I see lawful administrative detention of such people, as an option.


------ >

QUARANTINE WORKS!!
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1538349389/34#34

and....
The argument for administrative detention, for all 'Aussie' followers of ISLAM
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1538349389/0#0





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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #6 - Jun 16th, 2019 at 2:39pm
 
aquascoot wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 9:54am:
PZ547 wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 9:01am:
Aqua, does she explain or attempt to justify female genital mutilation?

Was she subjected to FGM?

I haven't watched the video yet, but don't want to bother if she hasn't taken islam to task

thanks



yes she was.
she talks about it and her upbringing .
it was just the norm.

she talks about the simplicity of surrendering to a belief system, but how , when she went to the west, she could not reconcile that belief system with what she saw as western values.

she is quite an extraordinary woman .

there are so few people who have left the faith and have a spine to talk about it.
and , indeed, we see why.
she has been the subject of death threats and her publisher was killed.


Her FGM may have been true, I don't know, but pretty everything else she claimed about her 'oppressive' upbringing has been shown to be lies:

Quote:
Born Ayaan Hirsi Magam, she migrated to the Netherlands in 1992, changed her name to Hirsi Ali, and lied to Dutch authorities about her past. Contrary to the story she told the government, she arrived in the Netherlands not from war-torn Somalia, but from Kenya, where she lived in a secure environment and under the protection of the United Nations, which funded her education at a well-regarded Muslim girls’ school. Though she told immigration authorities and the Dutch public she had fled from civil war in Somalia, she left that country before its war broke out. Indeed, she did not live through a war there or anywhere else. Thanks to her fabrications, Hirsi Ali received political asylum in just five weeks.

Hirsi Ali told astonished audiences on Dutch talk shows that her supposedly devout family had forced her to marry a draconian Muslim man, that she had not been present at her own wedding, and that her family had threatened to kill her for offending their religious honor. However, Zembla told a drastically different story. Hirsi Ali’s brother, aunt and former husband each testified that she had indeed been present at her wedding. It turned out that Hirsi Ali’s mother had sent her brother to a Christian school, not exactly an indication of Islamic fanaticism.

“Yeah, I made up the whole thing,” Hirsi Ali admitted on camera to a Zembla reporter who confronted her with her lies. “I said my name was Ayaan Hirsi Ali instead of Ayaan Hirsi Magan. I also said I was born in 1967 while I was actually born in 1969.”

Hirsi Ali’s claim of honor killing threats also appears to be empty; she remained in touch with her father and aunt after she left her husband. In fact, her husband even came to visit her in the Dutch refugee center where she lived after leaving him. Even though he had paid her way to Europe on the grounds that she would join him in Canada, Hirsi Ali’s husband consented to the divorce she sought.

In 2003, just a decade after gaining political asylum in the Netherlands, Hirsi Ali was elected to the Dutch parliament on the ticket of the People's Party for Freedom and Democracy. VVD leadership knew that the story Hirsi Ali told on her immigration forms was a gigantic lie — she had told them as much — but covered up the fraud and even advanced it to propel her career.


https://www.alternet.org/2015/03/anti-islam-author-ayaan-hirsi-alis-latest-decep...

A proven liar - done for the most cynical of reasons, to further her political career. Also this so-called "free speech" warrior advocates violence against muslims, as well as supports closing down Islamic schools.

Extraordinary woman indeed.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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aquascoot
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #7 - Jun 16th, 2019 at 2:55pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 2:39pm:
aquascoot wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 9:54am:
PZ547 wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 9:01am:
Aqua, does she explain or attempt to justify female genital mutilation?

Was she subjected to FGM?

I haven't watched the video yet, but don't want to bother if she hasn't taken islam to task

thanks



yes she was.
she talks about it and her upbringing .
it was just the norm.

she talks about the simplicity of surrendering to a belief system, but how , when she went to the west, she could not reconcile that belief system with what she saw as western values.

she is quite an extraordinary woman .

there are so few people who have left the faith and have a spine to talk about it.
and , indeed, we see why.
she has been the subject of death threats and her publisher was killed.


Her FGM may have been true, I don't know, but pretty everything else she claimed about her 'oppressive' upbringing has been shown to be lies:

Quote:
Born Ayaan Hirsi Magam, she migrated to the Netherlands in 1992, changed her name to Hirsi Ali, and lied to Dutch authorities about her past. Contrary to the story she told the government, she arrived in the Netherlands not from war-torn Somalia, but from Kenya, where she lived in a secure environment and under the protection of the United Nations, which funded her education at a well-regarded Muslim girls’ school. Though she told immigration authorities and the Dutch public she had fled from civil war in Somalia, she left that country before its war broke out. Indeed, she did not live through a war there or anywhere else. Thanks to her fabrications, Hirsi Ali received political asylum in just five weeks.

Hirsi Ali told astonished audiences on Dutch talk shows that her supposedly devout family had forced her to marry a draconian Muslim man, that she had not been present at her own wedding, and that her family had threatened to kill her for offending their religious honor. However, Zembla told a drastically different story. Hirsi Ali’s brother, aunt and former husband each testified that she had indeed been present at her wedding. It turned out that Hirsi Ali’s mother had sent her brother to a Christian school, not exactly an indication of Islamic fanaticism.

“Yeah, I made up the whole thing,” Hirsi Ali admitted on camera to a Zembla reporter who confronted her with her lies. “I said my name was Ayaan Hirsi Ali instead of Ayaan Hirsi Magan. I also said I was born in 1967 while I was actually born in 1969.”

Hirsi Ali’s claim of honor killing threats also appears to be empty; she remained in touch with her father and aunt after she left her husband. In fact, her husband even came to visit her in the Dutch refugee center where she lived after leaving him. Even though he had paid her way to Europe on the grounds that she would join him in Canada, Hirsi Ali’s husband consented to the divorce she sought.

In 2003, just a decade after gaining political asylum in the Netherlands, Hirsi Ali was elected to the Dutch parliament on the ticket of the People's Party for Freedom and Democracy. VVD leadership knew that the story Hirsi Ali told on her immigration forms was a gigantic lie — she had told them as much — but covered up the fraud and even advanced it to propel her career.


https://www.alternet.org/2015/03/anti-islam-author-ayaan-hirsi-alis-latest-decep...

A proven liar - done for the most cynical of reasons, to further her political career. Also this so-called "free speech" warrior advocates violence against muslims, as well as supports closing down Islamic schools.

Extraordinary woman indeed.



thats fake news Polite Gandalph and you know it and you should be ashamed.


this is from wikipedia.

do you think stanford hand out jobs to fakes

She has founded an organisation for the defense of women's rights, the AHA Foundation.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a Fellow with the Hoover Institution at Stanford University, a Fellow with the Future of Diplomacy Project at the Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs at The Harvard Kennedy School, a visiting scholar at the American Enterprise Institute in Washington, D.C., and a member of the Council on Foreign Relations.[6]
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aquascoot
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #8 - Jun 16th, 2019 at 2:58pm
 
and more proof you are a spreader of lies and fake news.


this is her TED talk.

do TED vet their speakers?
they are one of the most reputable organisations around




you have been exposed as a fraud.
own it
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #9 - Jun 16th, 2019 at 3:15pm
 
FU, Gandalf

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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #10 - Jun 16th, 2019 at 3:24pm
 
aquascoot wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 2:55pm:
hats fake news Polite Gandalph and you know it and you should be ashamed.


She admitted to falsifying her asylum claim aqua.

She specifically admitted to lying about her experience living in a war-torn country:

Quote:
The TV programme, broadcast 10 days ago, highlighted the fact that Hirsi Ali had falsified her original asylum application in Holland, saying that she had not come from war-torn Somalia as she claimed, but from Kenya, where she had lived peacefully for 10 years. The fact that she had lied was well-known, retorted Hirsi Ali, making the point that was she was fleeing a forced marriage.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #11 - Jun 16th, 2019 at 3:26pm
 
Gordon wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 3:15pm:
FU, Gandalf



Awww poor Gordy little bit touchy huh?

But please tell me Gordon, what has Van Gogh's murder got to do with Hirsi being a proven liar and a hypocrite about free speech?
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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aquascoot
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #12 - Jun 16th, 2019 at 3:54pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 3:26pm:
Gordon wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 3:15pm:
FU, Gandalf



Awww poor Gordy little bit touchy huh?

But please tell me Gordon, what has Van Gogh's murder got to do with Hirsi being a proven liar and a hypocrite about free speech?



Um, if you look at that body there is a death threat pinned to it for Miss hirsi Ali.
Do you deny this ?
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #13 - Jun 16th, 2019 at 3:56pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 3:24pm:
aquascoot wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 2:55pm:
hats fake news Polite Gandalph and you know it and you should be ashamed.


She admitted to falsifying her asylum claim aqua.

She specifically admitted to lying about her experience living in a war-torn country:

Quote:
The TV programme, broadcast 10 days ago, highlighted the fact that Hirsi Ali had falsified her original asylum application in Holland, saying that she had not come from war-torn Somalia as she claimed, but from Kenya, where she had lived peacefully for 10 years. The fact that she had lied was well-known, retorted Hirsi Ali, making the point that was she was fleeing a forced marriage.



Sure ,Stanford a very liberal university is always in the habit of employing people who "make stuff up"
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #14 - Jun 16th, 2019 at 5:13pm
 


She has to die.

ISLAMIC law demands it.



gandalf will deny this.
....as a lie, and a slight, against ISLAM.




.




"ISLAM ES PAZ"


IMAGE.....
...


Everyone knows that true ISLAM, is a religion of peace.

/sarc off



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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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aquascoot
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #15 - Jun 16th, 2019 at 6:09pm
 
It seems amazing that a woman who is genitally mutilated, escapes an arranged marriage, goes to holland and goes to uni. Is elected to parliament, has her story told by a Dutch film maker.

The film shows her leaving the faith.

The film maker is stabbed and a death threat to her pinned on his corpse

She flees to America.
Gets work at Stanford and Harvard AND
Gandalf labels her a fraud and the southern poverty law centre finds her guilty of a hate crime for renouncing her faith ( after genital mutilation, arranged marriage and attempts on her life)

You can't make this sort of hypocrisy up.
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John Smith
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #16 - Jun 16th, 2019 at 6:28pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 2:39pm:
A proven liar - done for the most cynical of reasons, to further her political career. Also this so-called "free speech" warrior advocates violence against muslims, as well as supports closing down Islamic schools.

Extraordinary woman indeed.



ahh, so that's why the Islamaphobes on here are so fond of her.

I knew there had to be a reason.
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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #17 - Jun 16th, 2019 at 6:30pm
 
aquascoot wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 6:09pm:
You can't make this sort of hypocrisy up.



so you believe everything she says, except for when she says she lied about it all?  Grin Grin Grin
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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #18 - Jun 16th, 2019 at 6:38pm
 
John Smith wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 6:28pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 2:39pm:
A proven liar - done for the most cynical of reasons, to further her political career. Also this so-called "free speech" warrior advocates violence against muslims, as well as supports closing down Islamic schools.

Extraordinary woman indeed.



ahh, so that's why the Islamaphobes on here are so fond of her.

I knew there had to be a reason.


so gandalf says she was born in kenya.
a quick look at wikipredia refutes that.

and he says she advocates violence agianst islam.

extraordinary.

how does one get a position as a professor at a prestigous university if one "advocates violence against muslims".

admit it, she left the faith, she was nearly killed but because she dared to criticise the faith, her reputation has to be trashed by lefties like you.

look at yourself.

john smith , a white priveledged male attacking a brown woman assylum seeker who  requires security to prevent men killing her.

you are indeed a hypocrite and it is plain for all to see.  Roll Eyes
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #19 - Jun 16th, 2019 at 6:42pm
 
Theodoor "Theo" van Gogh (Dutch: [ˈteːjoː vɑŋ ˈɣɔx];[1] 23 July 1957 – 2 November 2004) was a Dutch film director, film producer, television director, television producer, television presenter, screenwriter, actor, critic and author.

Van Gogh worked with the Somali-born writer and politician Ayaan Hirsi Ali to produce the short film Submission (2004), which criticized the treatment of women in Islam. It provoked outrage from the Dutch Muslim community. On 2 November 2004, van Gogh was assassinated by Mohammed Bouyeri, a Dutch-Moroccan Muslim who objected to the controversial film. The last film van Gogh had completed before his death, 06/05, was a fictionalized exploration of the assassination of Dutch politician Pim Fortuyn (1948–2002). It was released posthumously in December 2004, a month following van Gogh's assassination.

i suppose he deserved it , hey Mr Smith , doing a film on a brown woman
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #20 - Jun 16th, 2019 at 6:44pm
 
aquascoot wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 6:38pm:
a quick look at wikipredia refutes that.



you realise that anyone can edit anything in wiki right?  Cheesy Cheesy
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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #21 - Jun 16th, 2019 at 6:44pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 2:39pm:
aquascoot wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 9:54am:
PZ547 wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 9:01am:
Aqua, does she explain or attempt to justify female genital mutilation?

Was she subjected to FGM?

I haven't watched the video yet, but don't want to bother if she hasn't taken islam to task

thanks



yes she was.
she talks about it and her upbringing .
it was just the norm.

she talks about the simplicity of surrendering to a belief system, but how , when she went to the west, she could not reconcile that belief system with what she saw as western values.

she is quite an extraordinary woman .

there are so few people who have left the faith and have a spine to talk about it.
and , indeed, we see why.
she has been the subject of death threats and her publisher was killed.


Her FGM may have been true, I don't know, but pretty everything else she claimed about her 'oppressive' upbringing has been shown to be lies:

Quote:
Born Ayaan Hirsi Magam, she migrated to the Netherlands in 1992, changed her name to Hirsi Ali, and lied to Dutch authorities about her past. Contrary to the story she told the government, she arrived in the Netherlands not from war-torn Somalia, but from Kenya, where she lived in a secure environment and under the protection of the United Nations, which funded her education at a well-regarded Muslim girls’ school. Though she told immigration authorities and the Dutch public she had fled from civil war in Somalia, she left that country before its war broke out. Indeed, she did not live through a war there or anywhere else. Thanks to her fabrications, Hirsi Ali received political asylum in just five weeks.

Hirsi Ali told astonished audiences on Dutch talk shows that her supposedly devout family had forced her to marry a draconian Muslim man, that she had not been present at her own wedding, and that her family had threatened to kill her for offending their religious honor. However, Zembla told a drastically different story. Hirsi Ali’s brother, aunt and former husband each testified that she had indeed been present at her wedding. It turned out that Hirsi Ali’s mother had sent her brother to a Christian school, not exactly an indication of Islamic fanaticism.

“Yeah, I made up the whole thing,” Hirsi Ali admitted on camera to a Zembla reporter who confronted her with her lies. “I said my name was Ayaan Hirsi Ali instead of Ayaan Hirsi Magan. I also said I was born in 1967 while I was actually born in 1969.”

Hirsi Ali’s claim of honor killing threats also appears to be empty; she remained in touch with her father and aunt after she left her husband. In fact, her husband even came to visit her in the Dutch refugee center where she lived after leaving him. Even though he had paid her way to Europe on the grounds that she would join him in Canada, Hirsi Ali’s husband consented to the divorce she sought.

In 2003, just a decade after gaining political asylum in the Netherlands, Hirsi Ali was elected to the Dutch parliament on the ticket of the People's Party for Freedom and Democracy. VVD leadership knew that the story Hirsi Ali told on her immigration forms was a gigantic lie — she had told them as much — but covered up the fraud and even advanced it to propel her career.


https://www.alternet.org/2015/03/anti-islam-author-ayaan-hirsi-alis-latest-decep...

A proven liar - done for the most cynical of reasons, to further her political career. Also this so-called "free speech" warrior advocates violence against muslims, as well as supports closing down Islamic schools.

Extraordinary woman indeed.



She falsified some details to escape from Muslim like you, people who would do her harm simply for not accepting Mohammed and the Koran and for thinking for herself. You are doing it right here, before our eyes.

Telling the truth to Muslims like you gets people killed by Muslims like you - devout, sharia-compliant, Mohammed-believing, Koran-adffirming Muslims.

Muslims like you - devout, believing Muslims - killed Theo van Gogh, , flew planes into buildings, blew up trains in London and Madrid, gunned down cartoonists and theatre goers in Paris, drove trucks into crowds in Marseilles and Stockholm - all for Mohammed and Islam.  So stop being so bugger* self-righteous about Islam. You are a jihadist like them, you are exactly on the same page as them.You are a devotee of the exact same ideology that fuels violence across the globe.  You have zero credibility. You are an enabler and agitator for jihad for sharia and the kaliphate. You cannot do otherwise.







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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #22 - Jun 16th, 2019 at 6:55pm
 
PALO ALTO, Calif.— Imagine Ayaan Hirsi Ali's surprise to find that a career spent fighting extremism had landed her on a list of extremists.

The Southern Poverty Law Center is a self-described "civil rights" group with a well-documented habit (or a strategy, more likely) of branding as "extremists" and "hate groups" outspoken enemies of the cultural Left. When SPLC came after Hirsi Ali, the activist and scholar vigorously defended her reputation.

"I’ve never met anyone from the Southern Poverty Law Center. I didn’t know they existed until they put my name on that list," Hirsi Ali told reporters at a Hoover Institution media round table Monday, reflecting on the SPLC's decision to categorize her as an anti-Muslim extremist. "Since 9/11/2001, I was used to being put on lists, and in so many different ways being vilified. So, at first, I didn’t think anything of it until I realized their level of influence, that they were actually saying you can’t invite this woman because she is an extremist. And then I went on their website and I saw who the other extremists are — white supremacists, and all the fringe, really, really radical extreme fringe groups — and I thought, who on earth are these people, and why are they taken so seriously?"

Born in Somalia, where she grew up a "devout Muslim," Hirsi Ali was subject to genital mutilation, ultimately fleeing to the Netherlands in her early 20s to escape a forced marriage. Her career has subsequently focused on fighting Islamic extremism, especially in the context of women's rights and, among other pursuits, she's held positions at the American Enterprise Institute, Harvard University, and Hoover, where Hirsi Ali currently works as a research fellow.

After the white nationalist demonstrations in Charlottesville, Va., last summer, "Apple and JPMorgan and [George] Clooney started throwing money at" SPLC, "making them even more influential," Hirsi Ali said, explaining why she sought out a platform in the New York Times to expose the SPLC's practices, frustrated by that string of high-profile donations.

"It’s really kind of a scam that these people are pulling off. At one point they started off with very serious issues like civil rights groups, and stood up for these people, but after that it’s just one big fundraising machine," Hirsi Ali noted.
Eighteen months after being published, the list of "anti-Muslim extremists” that included Hirsi Ali was wiped from the SPLC's website this April.

source washington examiner
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #23 - Jun 16th, 2019 at 7:44pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 2:39pm:
aquascoot wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 9:54am:
PZ547 wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 9:01am:
Aqua, does she explain or attempt to justify female genital mutilation?

Was she subjected to FGM?

I haven't watched the video yet, but don't want to bother if she hasn't taken islam to task

thanks



yes she was.
she talks about it and her upbringing .
it was just the norm.

she talks about the simplicity of surrendering to a belief system, but how , when she went to the west, she could not reconcile that belief system with what she saw as western values.

she is quite an extraordinary woman .

there are so few people who have left the faith and have a spine to talk about it.
and , indeed, we see why.
she has been the subject of death threats and her publisher was killed.


Her FGM may have been true, I don't know, but pretty everything else she claimed about her 'oppressive' upbringing has been shown to be lies:

Quote:
Born Ayaan Hirsi Magam, she migrated to the Netherlands in 1992, changed her name to Hirsi Ali, and lied to Dutch authorities about her past. Contrary to the story she told the government, she arrived in the Netherlands not from war-torn Somalia, but from Kenya, where she lived in a secure environment and under the protection of the United Nations, which funded her education at a well-regarded Muslim girls’ school. Though she told immigration authorities and the Dutch public she had fled from civil war in Somalia, she left that country before its war broke out. Indeed, she did not live through a war there or anywhere else. Thanks to her fabrications, Hirsi Ali received political asylum in just five weeks.

Hirsi Ali told astonished audiences on Dutch talk shows that her supposedly devout family had forced her to marry a draconian Muslim man, that she had not been present at her own wedding, and that her family had threatened to kill her for offending their religious honor. However, Zembla told a drastically different story. Hirsi Ali’s brother, aunt and former husband each testified that she had indeed been present at her wedding. It turned out that Hirsi Ali’s mother had sent her brother to a Christian school, not exactly an indication of Islamic fanaticism.

“Yeah, I made up the whole thing,” Hirsi Ali admitted on camera to a Zembla reporter who confronted her with her lies. “I said my name was Ayaan Hirsi Ali instead of Ayaan Hirsi Magan. I also said I was born in 1967 while I was actually born in 1969.”

Hirsi Ali’s claim of honor killing threats also appears to be empty; she remained in touch with her father and aunt after she left her husband. In fact, her husband even came to visit her in the Dutch refugee center where she lived after leaving him. Even though he had paid her way to Europe on the grounds that she would join him in Canada, Hirsi Ali’s husband consented to the divorce she sought.

In 2003, just a decade after gaining political asylum in the Netherlands, Hirsi Ali was elected to the Dutch parliament on the ticket of the People's Party for Freedom and Democracy. VVD leadership knew that the story Hirsi Ali told on her immigration forms was a gigantic lie — she had told them as much — but covered up the fraud and even advanced it to propel her career.


https://www.alternet.org/2015/03/anti-islam-author-ayaan-hirsi-alis-latest-decep...

A proven liar - done for the most cynical of reasons, to further her political career. Also this so-called "free speech" warrior advocates violence against muslims, as well as supports closing down Islamic schools.

Extraordinary woman indeed.


Gandalf are you claiming that she used her grandfather's surname on her asylum application to benefit her political career?
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #24 - Jun 16th, 2019 at 8:09pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 2:39pm:
aquascoot wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 9:54am:
PZ547 wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 9:01am:
Aqua, does she explain or attempt to justify female genital mutilation?

Was she subjected to FGM?

I haven't watched the video yet, but don't want to bother if she hasn't taken islam to task

thanks



yes she was.
she talks about it and her upbringing .
it was just the norm.

she talks about the simplicity of surrendering to a belief system, but how , when she went to the west, she could not reconcile that belief system with what she saw as western values.

she is quite an extraordinary woman .

there are so few people who have left the faith and have a spine to talk about it.
and , indeed, we see why.
she has been the subject of death threats and her publisher was killed.


Her FGM may have been true, I don't know, but pretty everything else she claimed about her 'oppressive' upbringing has been shown to be lies:

Quote:
Born Ayaan Hirsi Magam, she migrated to the Netherlands in 1992, changed her name to Hirsi Ali, and lied to Dutch authorities about her past. Contrary to the story she told the government, she arrived in the Netherlands not from war-torn Somalia, but from Kenya, where she lived in a secure environment and under the protection of the United Nations, which funded her education at a well-regarded Muslim girls’ school. Though she told immigration authorities and the Dutch public she had fled from civil war in Somalia, she left that country before its war broke out. Indeed, she did not live through a war there or anywhere else. Thanks to her fabrications, Hirsi Ali received political asylum in just five weeks.

Hirsi Ali told astonished audiences on Dutch talk shows that her supposedly devout family had forced her to marry a draconian Muslim man, that she had not been present at her own wedding, and that her family had threatened to kill her for offending their religious honor. However, Zembla told a drastically different story. Hirsi Ali’s brother, aunt and former husband each testified that she had indeed been present at her wedding. It turned out that Hirsi Ali’s mother had sent her brother to a Christian school, not exactly an indication of Islamic fanaticism.

“Yeah, I made up the whole thing,” Hirsi Ali admitted on camera to a Zembla reporter who confronted her with her lies. “I said my name was Ayaan Hirsi Ali instead of Ayaan Hirsi Magan. I also said I was born in 1967 while I was actually born in 1969.”

Hirsi Ali’s claim of honor killing threats also appears to be empty; she remained in touch with her father and aunt after she left her husband. In fact, her husband even came to visit her in the Dutch refugee center where she lived after leaving him. Even though he had paid her way to Europe on the grounds that she would join him in Canada, Hirsi Ali’s husband consented to the divorce she sought.

In 2003, just a decade after gaining political asylum in the Netherlands, Hirsi Ali was elected to the Dutch parliament on the ticket of the People's Party for Freedom and Democracy. VVD leadership knew that the story Hirsi Ali told on her immigration forms was a gigantic lie — she had told them as much — but covered up the fraud and even advanced it to propel her career.


https://www.alternet.org/2015/03/anti-islam-author-ayaan-hirsi-alis-latest-decep...

A proven liar - done for the most cynical of reasons, to further her political career. Also this so-called "free speech" warrior advocates violence against muslims, as well as supports closing down Islamic schools.

Extraordinary woman indeed.

You fuel violent jihad.  Your ideology is indistinguishable from the jihadists' - Islam teaches you all to be violently oppressive supremacists. 

Looking at the societies you have created and want to create, you come across as fanatic lunatics. Wanting sharia and the kalifate is mad lunacy. All you devout Muslim are for it. You are all mad and dangerous and must be resisted at every turn.


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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #25 - Jun 16th, 2019 at 10:08pm
 
Gandalf will happily invent fanciful histories of mindless collectives of treacherous Jews to support genocide, but when a Muslim woman seeks refugee status and takes her grandfather's name to escape retribution from her family, he gets all high and mighty about people lying.
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #26 - Jun 16th, 2019 at 10:52pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 7:44pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 2:39pm:
aquascoot wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 9:54am:
PZ547 wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 9:01am:
Aqua, does she explain or attempt to justify female genital mutilation?

Was she subjected to FGM?

I haven't watched the video yet, but don't want to bother if she hasn't taken islam to task

thanks



yes she was.
she talks about it and her upbringing .
it was just the norm.

she talks about the simplicity of surrendering to a belief system, but how , when she went to the west, she could not reconcile that belief system with what she saw as western values.

she is quite an extraordinary woman .

there are so few people who have left the faith and have a spine to talk about it.
and , indeed, we see why.
she has been the subject of death threats and her publisher was killed.


Her FGM may have been true, I don't know, but pretty everything else she claimed about her 'oppressive' upbringing has been shown to be lies:

Quote:
Born Ayaan Hirsi Magam, she migrated to the Netherlands in 1992, changed her name to Hirsi Ali, and lied to Dutch authorities about her past. Contrary to the story she told the government, she arrived in the Netherlands not from war-torn Somalia, but from Kenya, where she lived in a secure environment and under the protection of the United Nations, which funded her education at a well-regarded Muslim girls’ school. Though she told immigration authorities and the Dutch public she had fled from civil war in Somalia, she left that country before its war broke out. Indeed, she did not live through a war there or anywhere else. Thanks to her fabrications, Hirsi Ali received political asylum in just five weeks.

Hirsi Ali told astonished audiences on Dutch talk shows that her supposedly devout family had forced her to marry a draconian Muslim man, that she had not been present at her own wedding, and that her family had threatened to kill her for offending their religious honor. However, Zembla told a drastically different story. Hirsi Ali’s brother, aunt and former husband each testified that she had indeed been present at her wedding. It turned out that Hirsi Ali’s mother had sent her brother to a Christian school, not exactly an indication of Islamic fanaticism.

“Yeah, I made up the whole thing,” Hirsi Ali admitted on camera to a Zembla reporter who confronted her with her lies. “I said my name was Ayaan Hirsi Ali instead of Ayaan Hirsi Magan. I also said I was born in 1967 while I was actually born in 1969.”

Hirsi Ali’s claim of honor killing threats also appears to be empty; she remained in touch with her father and aunt after she left her husband. In fact, her husband even came to visit her in the Dutch refugee center where she lived after leaving him. Even though he had paid her way to Europe on the grounds that she would join him in Canada, Hirsi Ali’s husband consented to the divorce she sought.

In 2003, just a decade after gaining political asylum in the Netherlands, Hirsi Ali was elected to the Dutch parliament on the ticket of the People's Party for Freedom and Democracy. VVD leadership knew that the story Hirsi Ali told on her immigration forms was a gigantic lie — she had told them as much — but covered up the fraud and even advanced it to propel her career.


https://www.alternet.org/2015/03/anti-islam-author-ayaan-hirsi-alis-latest-decep...

A proven liar - done for the most cynical of reasons, to further her political career. Also this so-called "free speech" warrior advocates violence against muslims, as well as supports closing down Islamic schools.

Extraordinary woman indeed.


Gandalf are you claiming that she used her grandfather's surname on her asylum application to benefit her political career?


No FD, I'm saying she lied about living through the war in Somalia to benefit her political career. She had live in Kenya for 10 years before moving to Holland:

Quote:
The TV programme, broadcast 10 days ago, highlighted the fact that Hirsi Ali had falsified her original asylum application in Holland, saying that she had not come from war-torn Somalia as she claimed, but from Kenya, where she had lived peacefully for 10 years. The fact that she had lied was well-known, retorted Hirsi Ali


Her claims of fleeing an abusive forced marriage and a strict muslim family have also come into question by a Dutch journalist who travelled to Somalia and Kenya to research the matter and found her story full of holes. For example eye witnesses place her at her wedding she claimed she had avoided after fleeing for asylum.

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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #27 - Jun 16th, 2019 at 10:53pm
 
aquascoot wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 6:38pm:
so gandalf says she was born in kenya.


Rubbish.
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #28 - Jun 16th, 2019 at 11:51pm
 
Quote:
I'm saying she lied about living through the war in Somalia to benefit her political career.


What did she say?
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #29 - Jun 17th, 2019 at 12:16am
 
freediver wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 11:51pm:
Quote:
I'm saying she lied about living through the war in Somalia to benefit her political career.


What did she say?


that she had fled the war in Somalia to get asylum -when in truth she moved from Kenya:

Quote:
Hirsi Ali had long ago alerted her party to the 'lie' in her 1992 asylum application. She had claimed to come from Somalia (where she lived as a child) because, being a wartorn country, it would qualify her for asylum. She has publicly stated several times she was ashamed of doing so. The truth was that she had lived for 10 years as a refugee in Kenya.


Are you expecting me to dig up the exact quote she gave to Dutch immigration officials?
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #30 - Jun 17th, 2019 at 5:36am
 
so a brown woman from africa, who suffers genital mutilation, flees to a foreign country, is elected to parliament, has to leave because of security risks and goes to america, attains lecture status at stanford is

AN APPROPRIATE PERSON to be listed on the southern poverty law centre list of those guilty of hate crimes for the hateful act of "renouncing her faith".

a law centre that gets millions from people like george clooney and other leftie intellectuals.


an african  muslim woman who left an arranged marriage is seen as a hate criminla for daring to criticise islam?

the left have lost their mind  Undecided Undecided Undecided
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #31 - Jun 17th, 2019 at 8:35am
 
aquascoot wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 5:36am:
so a brown woman from africa, who suffers genital mutilation, flees to a foreign country, is elected to parliament, has to leave because of security risks and goes to america, attains lecture status at stanford is

AN APPROPRIATE PERSON to be listed on the southern poverty law centre list of those guilty of hate crimes for the hateful act of "renouncing her faith".

a law centre that gets millions from people like george clooney and other leftie intellectuals.


an african  muslim woman who left an arranged marriage is seen as a hate criminla for daring to criticise islam?

the left have lost their mind  Undecided Undecided Undecided



I fail to understand how her personal history impacts on her capacity to be taken at face value.

Are you saying that because of her history, she should be allowed to say whatever she like? However inflammatory and incorrect it is?
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #32 - Jun 17th, 2019 at 9:14am
 
mothra wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 8:35am:
aquascoot wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 5:36am:
so a brown woman from africa, who suffers genital mutilation, flees to a foreign country, is elected to parliament, has to leave because of security risks and goes to america, attains lecture status at stanford is

AN APPROPRIATE PERSON to be listed on the southern poverty law centre list of those guilty of hate crimes for the hateful act of "renouncing her faith".

a law centre that gets millions from people like george clooney and other leftie intellectuals.


an african  muslim woman who left an arranged marriage is seen as a hate criminla for daring to criticise islam?

the left have lost their mind  Undecided Undecided Undecided



I fail to understand how her personal history impacts on her capacity to be taken at face value.

Are you saying that because of her history, she should be allowed to say whatever she like? However inflammatory and incorrect it is?



So her colleague is stabbed.
She moves to America.
She is identified as a hate criminal by people like George Clooney.
The message is to shut up and don't question Islam
Obviously she is now a target for extremists to take her out
Obviously the message from the intellectual elite of the left is to get with their program or they will identify you for the extremists to target.

That is an appalling state of affairs.

No wonder most people do shut up.
How many people have left Islam and are prepared to say why.
Hardly any
And that's because of these bully boy tactics by the left.

That's so wrong
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #33 - Jun 17th, 2019 at 9:19am
 
No Horse Boy. The message is that this woman has been particularly influenced and uses that personal influence to speak for people that are not her.

Too many disagree with her for this not to be the case.

You like her because she denounces Islam. Were she beating the drum for feminism, you would call her addicted to emotional responses. And you know it.

The fact of the matter is she categorically demonises an entire demographic, unfairly. And uses personal anecdotes (fraudulent or otherwise) to do, and thus doubles her appeal.

Clearer eyes see through it though.
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #34 - Jun 17th, 2019 at 10:25am
 
So you are happy for her to be listed as I hate criminal. Just to be clear. if someone does leave the Islamic faith are they allowed to discuss this in public. How many ex Muslims do we have speaking in the public sphere. Certainly there are many ex Christians who are happy to identify. Are apostates allowed to do likewise or is this always a hate crime
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #35 - Jun 17th, 2019 at 10:41am
 
aquascoot wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 9:14am:
mothra wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 8:35am:
aquascoot wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 5:36am:
so a brown woman from africa, who suffers genital mutilation, flees to a foreign country, is elected to parliament, has to leave because of security risks and goes to america, attains lecture status at stanford is

AN APPROPRIATE PERSON to be listed on the southern poverty law centre list of those guilty of hate crimes for the hateful act of "renouncing her faith".

a law centre that gets millions from people like george clooney and other leftie intellectuals.


an african  muslim woman who left an arranged marriage is seen as a hate criminla for daring to criticise islam?

the left have lost their mind  Undecided Undecided Undecided



I fail to understand how her personal history impacts on her capacity to be taken at face value.

Are you saying that because of her history, she should be allowed to say whatever she like? However inflammatory and incorrect it is?



So her colleague is stabbed.
She moves to America.
She is identified as a hate criminal by people like George Clooney.
The message is to shut up and don't question Islam
Obviously she is now a target for extremists to take her out
Obviously the message from the intellectual elite of the left is to get with their program or they will identify you for the extremists to target.

That is an appalling state of affairs.

No wonder most people do shut up.
How many people have left Islam and are prepared to say why.
Hardly any
And that's because of these bully boy tactics by the left.

That's so wrong


What does this have to do with "the left", dear?

I'm curious.
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #36 - Jun 17th, 2019 at 10:55am
 
Are you asserting the Southern poverty  law centre is a conservative institution
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #37 - Jun 17th, 2019 at 11:28am
 
Hirsi tacitly promoting violence against muslims:

Quote:
Hirsi Ali: I think that we are at war with Islam. And there's no middle ground in wars. Islam can be defeated in many ways. For starters, you stop the spread of the ideology itself; at present, there are native Westerners converting to Islam, and they're the most fanatical sometimes. There is infiltration of Islam in the schools and universities of the West. You stop that. You stop the symbol burning and the effigy burning, and you look them in the eye and flex your muscles and you say, "This is a warning. We won't accept this anymore." There comes a moment when you crush your enemy.

Reason: Militarily?

Hirsi Ali: In all forms, and if you don't do that, then you have to live with the consequence of being crushed.


https://reason.com/2007/10/10/the-trouble-is-the-west
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #38 - Jun 17th, 2019 at 11:33am
 
mothra wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 9:19am:
You like her because she denounces Islam. Were she beating the drum for feminism, you would call her addicted to emotional responses.


So true mothra. Aqua is all over the shot on this one with a clearly irrational apologia for a hate monger who cynically uses blatant lies to further her political career.
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #39 - Jun 17th, 2019 at 11:45am
 
aquascoot wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 10:25am:
So you are happy for her to be listed as I hate criminal. Just to be clear. if someone does leave the Islamic faith are they allowed to discuss this in public. How many ex Muslims do we have speaking in the public sphere. Certainly there are many ex Christians who are happy to identify. Are apostates allowed to do likewise or is this always a hate crime



Horse Boy, it's not that she has left Islam, it's that she represents Islam solely through a prejudiced lens .. and one, sadly, that appears to be built on lies.

I'm not saying for a second that tales such as hers are unheard of, even common in some parts ... but they are not representative of Islam. They are representative of ignorance and corruption.

We are at a critical time in our species evolution where we must decide if we are for unity of separation. There are many determinants pointing us to this.

It is my belief we need to find commonality. Unity. Ways to bridge gaps. I see this as otr best hope for the future (aside from growing a poo ton of trees).

I'm saddened to say Hirsi Ali speaks to fracture. She is divisive. This is the greatest threat to us at this time in history. This is why she attracts the attention she does.

We need, as i keep telling you, to come together. Find common ground. The overwhelming majority of Muslims want that too.

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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #40 - Jun 17th, 2019 at 11:57am
 
aquascoot wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 10:55am:
Are you asserting the Southern poverty  law centre is a conservative institution


No, dear, I'm talking about apologists. Why do you think they're from "the left"?
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #41 - Jun 17th, 2019 at 12:06pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 10:08pm:
Gandalf will happily invent fanciful histories of mindless collectives of treacherous Jews to support genocide, but when a Muslim woman seeks refugee status and takes her grandfather's name to escape retribution from her family, he gets all high and mighty about people lying.


LOL

Yep, that sounds kosher.



The moslem, is the innocent, virtuous person,         ....while the female apostate, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, is obviously, a lying slanderer of ISLAM.

What else can you expect from a non-moslem!
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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #42 - Jun 17th, 2019 at 12:06pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 2:39pm:
aquascoot wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 9:54am:
PZ547 wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 9:01am:
Aqua, does she explain or attempt to justify female genital mutilation?

Was she subjected to FGM?

I haven't watched the video yet, but don't want to bother if she hasn't taken islam to task

thanks



yes she was.
she talks about it and her upbringing .
it was just the norm.

she talks about the simplicity of surrendering to a belief system, but how , when she went to the west, she could not reconcile that belief system with what she saw as western values.

she is quite an extraordinary woman .

there are so few people who have left the faith and have a spine to talk about it.
and , indeed, we see why.
she has been the subject of death threats and her publisher was killed.


Her FGM may have been true, I don't know, but pretty everything else she claimed about her 'oppressive' upbringing has been shown to be lies:




How would you know, Gandalf? Should she provide you personal photographic evidence?

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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #43 - Jun 17th, 2019 at 12:09pm
 
Gordon wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 12:06pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 2:39pm:
aquascoot wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 9:54am:
PZ547 wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 9:01am:
Aqua, does she explain or attempt to justify female genital mutilation?

Was she subjected to FGM?

I haven't watched the video yet, but don't want to bother if she hasn't taken islam to task

thanks



yes she was.
she talks about it and her upbringing .
it was just the norm.

she talks about the simplicity of surrendering to a belief system, but how , when she went to the west, she could not reconcile that belief system with what she saw as western values.

she is quite an extraordinary woman .

there are so few people who have left the faith and have a spine to talk about it.
and , indeed, we see why.
she has been the subject of death threats and her publisher was killed.


Her FGM may have been true, I don't know, but pretty everything else she claimed about her 'oppressive' upbringing has been shown to be lies:




How would you know, Gandalf? Should she provide you personal photographic evidence?




He doesn't know. That's why he says he doesn't know.

Tell me Gordy, are you inclined to question the claims of proven liars?
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #44 - Jun 17th, 2019 at 12:49pm
 
mothra wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 11:45am:
aquascoot wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 10:25am:
So you are happy for her to be listed as I hate criminal. Just to be clear. if someone does leave the Islamic faith are they allowed to discuss this in public. How many ex Muslims do we have speaking in the public sphere. Certainly there are many ex Christians who are happy to identify. Are apostates allowed to do likewise or is this always a hate crime



Horse Boy, it's not that she has left Islam, it's that she represents Islam solely through a prejudiced lens .. and one, sadly, that appears to be built on lies.

I'm not saying for a second that tales such as hers are unheard of, even common in some parts ... but they are not representative of Islam. They are representative of ignorance and corruption.

We are at a critical time in our species evolution where we must decide if we are for unity of separation. There are many determinants pointing us to this.

It is my belief we need to find commonality. Unity. Ways to bridge gaps. I see this as otr best hope for the future (aside from growing a poo ton of trees).

I'm saddened to say Hirsi Ali speaks to fracture. She is divisive. This is the greatest threat to us at this time in history. This is why she attracts the attention she does.

We need, as i keep telling you, to come together. Find common ground. The overwhelming majority of Muslims want that too.




find common ground by listing a black woman who has fled 2 countries on a list of "hate criminals" so that she can have even more security concerns?
are you insane ?
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #45 - Jun 17th, 2019 at 12:51pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 11:33am:
mothra wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 9:19am:
You like her because she denounces Islam. Were she beating the drum for feminism, you would call her addicted to emotional responses.


So true mothra. Aqua is all over the shot on this one with a clearly irrational apologia for a hate monger who cynically uses blatant lies to further her political career.


are you saying that ALL criticism of islam is a potential hate crime ?
if not, exactly how much criticism are we allowed ?
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #46 - Jun 17th, 2019 at 12:55pm
 
aquascoot wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 12:51pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 11:33am:
mothra wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 9:19am:
You like her because she denounces Islam. Were she beating the drum for feminism, you would call her addicted to emotional responses.


So true mothra. Aqua is all over the shot on this one with a clearly irrational apologia for a hate monger who cynically uses blatant lies to further her political career.


are you saying that ALL criticism of islam is a potential hate crime ?
if not, exactly how much criticism are we allowed ?


Surely, any criticism of it at all is low vibrational, beta endeavour, No?
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #47 - Jun 17th, 2019 at 12:55pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 11:33am:
mothra wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 9:19am:
You like her because she denounces Islam. Were she beating the drum for feminism, you would call her addicted to emotional responses.


So true mothra. Aqua is all over the shot on this one with a clearly irrational apologia for a hate monger who cynically uses blatant lies to further her political career.


Interesting how they change, isn't it?

They start out as free-traders opposing government regulation. They come to fixate on "the left". They join the bigots and reactionaries in attacking the so-called progressives.

Before long, they've become "patriots", promoting tyranny and opposing any form of freedom whatsoever, with one small exception:

The freedom to attack the tinted.

We've seen it all over the years here. We've watched sane, tolerant people morph into rabid racists until finally, they scoff at the notion of racism itself.

Racism: so passé.

Aquascoot is now going through this process. Personally, I don't think he's racist at all, but as he blends in with the bigots he is exposed to their porkies, porkies that, as we know all too well, are used in the war against the tinted.

There's no bigger zealot than a convert, and no one is more comfortable spreading lies. The newcomers have been through the process of conversion, the staged brainwashing of the cult. No one feels more than the convert the imperative of bringing souls to the cause, whatever it takes.

There's your Muselman, for a start. Their suicide bombers are usually young, dumb and full of cum converts. It's the same with your "patriot" bomber or shooter.

Having seen it here, we know how easy it is to be brainwashed. Aquascoot is going through the process himself, first through Trump, and now through the anti-Islam/tinted campaign. This is why hate-speech needs to be addressed, and it all comes back to race.

You'll never shift the entrenched white supremacist through reason. How much luck have you had with FD?

But you can stop people being converted by addressing the lies at the outset.


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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #48 - Jun 17th, 2019 at 12:59pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 11:57am:
aquascoot wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 10:55am:
Are you asserting the Southern poverty  law centre is a conservative institution


No, dear, I'm talking about apologists. Why do you think they're from "the left"?



ben affleck was on Bill Maher and went full on nuclear because maher expressed concerns about islam.
Ben said that Maher just hated "brown people"
but hirsi ali IS BROWN.
she is a WOMAN.
she was targetted for death by islamists in holland and because she had security and her producer did not, they murdered him and pin a death threat to her on his corpse.

now she flees to america and the sothern poverty law centre, a very well funded entity publishes a list with her as a hate criminal.
people from the left dox her saying they see her regularly at a certain starbucks or farmers market.
this is clearly designed to send her the message that she stops criticising islam or she might just get taken out.
the idea that a refugee should walk around with a target on her back because she dares criticise something the left dont want criticised is abhorent.

it is silencing people through the absolute worst kind of bullying.
you karnal should be better then that.
i know moth and gandy are a little thick , but you have a good brain and you know exactly what the left are doing by listing someone as a hate criminal and then revealing their personal details.

thats pretty evil. thats actually pretty unhinged
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #49 - Jun 17th, 2019 at 1:01pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 12:55pm:
You'll never shift the entrenched white supremacist through reason. How much luck have you had with FD?

But you can stop people being converted by addressing the lies at the outset.




I've given up hope in that, even.

I just like the seed planting thing. There's a lovely maybe attached to that.

Aside from that, i determine to be a voice of opposition.
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #50 - Jun 17th, 2019 at 1:03pm
 
aquascoot wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 12:59pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 11:57am:
aquascoot wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 10:55am:
Are you asserting the Southern poverty  law centre is a conservative institution


No, dear, I'm talking about apologists. Why do you think they're from "the left"?



ben affleck was on Bill Maher and went full on nuclear because maher expressed concerns about islam.
Ben said that Maher just hated "brown people"
but hirsi ali IS BROWN.
she is a WOMAN.
she was targetted for death by islamists in holland and because she had security and her producer did not, they murdered him and pin a death threat to her on his corpse.

now she flees to america and the sothern poverty law centre, a very well funded entity publishes a list with her as a hate criminal.
people from the left dox her saying they see her regularly at a certain starbucks or farmers market.
this is clearly designed to send her the message that she stops criticising islam or she might just get taken out.
the idea that a refugee should walk around with a target on her back because she dares criticise something the left dont want criticised is abhorent.

it is silencing people through the absolute worst kind of bullying.
you karnal should be better then that.
i know moth and gandy are a little thick , but you have a good brain and you know exactly what the left are doing by listing someone as a hate criminal and then revealing their personal details.

thats pretty evil. thats actually pretty unhinged



Why ar you refusing to read what is being said to you?

It has all been explained.

Why are you still fighting?
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #51 - Jun 17th, 2019 at 1:05pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 12:55pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 11:33am:
mothra wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 9:19am:
You like her because she denounces Islam. Were she beating the drum for feminism, you would call her addicted to emotional responses.


So true mothra. Aqua is all over the shot on this one with a clearly irrational apologia for a hate monger who cynically uses blatant lies to further her political career.


Interesting how they change, isn't it?

They start out as free-traders opposing government regulation. They come to fixate on "the left". They join the bigots and reactionaries in attacking the so-called progressives.

Before long, they've become "patriots", promoting tyranny and opposing any form of freedom whatsoever, with one small exception:

The freedom to attack the tinted.

We've seen it all over the years here. We've watched sane, tolerant people morph into rabid racists until finally, they scoff at the notion of racism itself.

Racism: so passé.

Aquascoot is now going through this process. Personally, I don't think he's racist at all, but as he blends in with the bigots he is exposed to their porkies, porkies that, as we know all too well, are used in the war against the tinted.

There's no bigger zealot than a convert, and no one is more comfortable spreading lies. The newcomers have been through the process of conversion, the staged brainwashing of the cult. No one feels more than the convert the imperative of bringing souls to the cause, whatever it takes.

There's your Muselman, for a start. Their suicide bombers are usually young, dumb and full of cum converts. It's the same with your "patriot" bomber or shooter.

Having seen it here, we know how easy it is to be brainwashed. Aquascoot is going through the process himself, first through Trump, and now through the anti-Islam/tinted campaign. This is why hate-speech needs to be addressed, and it all comes back to race.

You'll never shift the entrenched white supremacist through reason. How much luck have you had with FD?

But you can stop people being converted by addressing the lies at the outset.





dude , i am no trump lover.
i think he's pure entertainment .
and lets face it the economy is doing fine and unemployment is fine and the sky is not falling.

but i do think there is a need to have an open and frank discussion about the ideology of islam.

and that cant be had at the moment.

you raise it in any context and you are branded an islamophobe and the debate is shut down.
thats unhealthy and you know it.

the prayers, the fasting, the getting together, the hospitality, the code of conduct of islam is all fine.
but we have to be able to discuss the bits that arent fine and thats never going to happen if one side labels any criticism as hate .
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #52 - Jun 17th, 2019 at 1:08pm
 
mothra wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 1:03pm:
aquascoot wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 12:59pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 11:57am:
aquascoot wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 10:55am:
Are you asserting the Southern poverty  law centre is a conservative institution


No, dear, I'm talking about apologists. Why do you think they're from "the left"?



ben affleck was on Bill Maher and went full on nuclear because maher expressed concerns about islam.
Ben said that Maher just hated "brown people"
but hirsi ali IS BROWN.
she is a WOMAN.
she was targetted for death by islamists in holland and because she had security and her producer did not, they murdered him and pin a death threat to her on his corpse.

now she flees to america and the sothern poverty law centre, a very well funded entity publishes a list with her as a hate criminal.
people from the left dox her saying they see her regularly at a certain starbucks or farmers market.
this is clearly designed to send her the message that she stops criticising islam or she might just get taken out.
the idea that a refugee should walk around with a target on her back because she dares criticise something the left dont want criticised is abhorent.

it is silencing people through the absolute worst kind of bullying.
you karnal should be better then that.
i know moth and gandy are a little thick , but you have a good brain and you know exactly what the left are doing by listing someone as a hate criminal and then revealing their personal details.

thats pretty evil. thats actually pretty unhinged



Why ar you refusing to read what is being said to you?

It has all been explained.

Why are you still fighting?



so you deny that she has heightened security concerns
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #53 - Jun 17th, 2019 at 1:10pm
 
mothra wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 12:09pm:
Gordon wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 12:06pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 2:39pm:
aquascoot wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 9:54am:
PZ547 wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 9:01am:
Aqua, does she explain or attempt to justify female genital mutilation?

Was she subjected to FGM?

I haven't watched the video yet, but don't want to bother if she hasn't taken islam to task

thanks



yes she was.
she talks about it and her upbringing .
it was just the norm.

she talks about the simplicity of surrendering to a belief system, but how , when she went to the west, she could not reconcile that belief system with what she saw as western values.

she is quite an extraordinary woman .

there are so few people who have left the faith and have a spine to talk about it.
and , indeed, we see why.
she has been the subject of death threats and her publisher was killed.


Her FGM may have been true, I don't know, but pretty everything else she claimed about her 'oppressive' upbringing has been shown to be lies:




How would you know, Gandalf? Should she provide you personal photographic evidence?




He doesn't know. That's why he says he doesn't know.

Tell me Gordy, are you inclined to question the claims of proven liars?


He was clearly doubting her claim of FGM.

Well I don't know if that's true because she lied about everything else.


Most girls in Somalia experience genital mutilation.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/07/20/most-girls-in-somal...
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #54 - Jun 17th, 2019 at 1:10pm
 
aquascoot wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 1:08pm:
mothra wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 1:03pm:
aquascoot wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 12:59pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 11:57am:
aquascoot wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 10:55am:
Are you asserting the Southern poverty  law centre is a conservative institution


No, dear, I'm talking about apologists. Why do you think they're from "the left"?



ben affleck was on Bill Maher and went full on nuclear because maher expressed concerns about islam.
Ben said that Maher just hated "brown people"
but hirsi ali IS BROWN.
she is a WOMAN.
she was targetted for death by islamists in holland and because she had security and her producer did not, they murdered him and pin a death threat to her on his corpse.

now she flees to america and the sothern poverty law centre, a very well funded entity publishes a list with her as a hate criminal.
people from the left dox her saying they see her regularly at a certain starbucks or farmers market.
this is clearly designed to send her the message that she stops criticising islam or she might just get taken out.
the idea that a refugee should walk around with a target on her back because she dares criticise something the left dont want criticised is abhorent.

it is silencing people through the absolute worst kind of bullying.
you karnal should be better then that.
i know moth and gandy are a little thick , but you have a good brain and you know exactly what the left are doing by listing someone as a hate criminal and then revealing their personal details.

thats pretty evil. thats actually pretty unhinged



Why ar you refusing to read what is being said to you?

It has all been explained.

Why are you still fighting?



so you deny that she has heightened security concerns


Did i?

Why is fighting against Islam noteworthy but fighting for feminism low vibrational and suggestive of addiction to the emotional state?
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #55 - Jun 17th, 2019 at 1:11pm
 
Gordon wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 1:10pm:
mothra wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 12:09pm:
Gordon wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 12:06pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 2:39pm:
aquascoot wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 9:54am:
PZ547 wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 9:01am:
Aqua, does she explain or attempt to justify female genital mutilation?

Was she subjected to FGM?

I haven't watched the video yet, but don't want to bother if she hasn't taken islam to task

thanks



yes she was.
she talks about it and her upbringing .
it was just the norm.

she talks about the simplicity of surrendering to a belief system, but how , when she went to the west, she could not reconcile that belief system with what she saw as western values.

she is quite an extraordinary woman .

there are so few people who have left the faith and have a spine to talk about it.
and , indeed, we see why.
she has been the subject of death threats and her publisher was killed.


Her FGM may have been true, I don't know, but pretty everything else she claimed about her 'oppressive' upbringing has been shown to be lies:




How would you know, Gandalf? Should she provide you personal photographic evidence?




He doesn't know. That's why he says he doesn't know.

Tell me Gordy, are you inclined to question the claims of proven liars?


He was clearly doubting her claim of FGM.

Well I don't know if that's true because she lied about everything else.


Most girls in Somalia experience genital mutilation.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/07/20/most-girls-in-somal...


No he wasn't. He was saying that while she has lied about so much, that may well be true.

You, on the other hand, lie freely. Mostly encouraged.
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #56 - Jun 17th, 2019 at 1:13pm
 
mothra wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 1:11pm:
Gordon wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 1:10pm:
mothra wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 12:09pm:
Gordon wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 12:06pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 2:39pm:
aquascoot wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 9:54am:
PZ547 wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 9:01am:
Aqua, does she explain or attempt to justify female genital mutilation?

Was she subjected to FGM?

I haven't watched the video yet, but don't want to bother if she hasn't taken islam to task

thanks



yes she was.
she talks about it and her upbringing .
it was just the norm.

she talks about the simplicity of surrendering to a belief system, but how , when she went to the west, she could not reconcile that belief system with what she saw as western values.

she is quite an extraordinary woman .

there are so few people who have left the faith and have a spine to talk about it.
and , indeed, we see why.
she has been the subject of death threats and her publisher was killed.


Her FGM may have been true, I don't know, but pretty everything else she claimed about her 'oppressive' upbringing has been shown to be lies:




How would you know, Gandalf? Should she provide you personal photographic evidence?




He doesn't know. That's why he says he doesn't know.

Tell me Gordy, are you inclined to question the claims of proven liars?


He was clearly doubting her claim of FGM.

Well I don't know if that's true because she lied about everything else.


Most girls in Somalia experience genital mutilation.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/07/20/most-girls-in-somal...


No he wasn't. He was saying that while she has lied about so much, that may well be true.

You, on the other hand, lie freely. Mostly encouraged.


Show me one lie, Everclear?
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #57 - Jun 17th, 2019 at 1:15pm
 
Gordon wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 1:13pm:
mothra wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 1:11pm:
Gordon wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 1:10pm:
mothra wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 12:09pm:
Gordon wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 12:06pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 2:39pm:
aquascoot wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 9:54am:
PZ547 wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 9:01am:
Aqua, does she explain or attempt to justify female genital mutilation?

Was she subjected to FGM?

I haven't watched the video yet, but don't want to bother if she hasn't taken islam to task

thanks



yes she was.
she talks about it and her upbringing .
it was just the norm.

she talks about the simplicity of surrendering to a belief system, but how , when she went to the west, she could not reconcile that belief system with what she saw as western values.

she is quite an extraordinary woman .

there are so few people who have left the faith and have a spine to talk about it.
and , indeed, we see why.
she has been the subject of death threats and her publisher was killed.


Her FGM may have been true, I don't know, but pretty everything else she claimed about her 'oppressive' upbringing has been shown to be lies:




How would you know, Gandalf? Should she provide you personal photographic evidence?




He doesn't know. That's why he says he doesn't know.

Tell me Gordy, are you inclined to question the claims of proven liars?


He was clearly doubting her claim of FGM.

Well I don't know if that's true because she lied about everything else.


Most girls in Somalia experience genital mutilation.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/07/20/most-girls-in-somal...


No he wasn't. He was saying that while she has lied about so much, that may well be true.

You, on the other hand, lie freely. Mostly encouraged.


Show me one lie, Everclear?



That one, for a start.

Gee, what did Everclear say to you? You are smart-ing!
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #58 - Jun 17th, 2019 at 1:34pm
 
aquascoot wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 1:05pm:
the prayers, the fasting, the getting together, the hospitality, the code of conduct of islam is all fine.
but we have to be able to discuss the bits that arent fine and thats never going to happen if one side labels any criticism as hate .


We should, and lord knows we try.

But then you get the Hirsi's of this world who come out shrieking that Islam is totally irredeemable - a religion only of hate and violence that must be opposed at every step - violently if necessary.

Against that, what hope have muslim moderates and sympathisers with "discussing the bits that aren't fine" in a sane and rational way? At best we are mocked, at worst we are viewed as deeply sinister and dangerous. We, after all, have the temerity to argue that "our" Islam is not the violent, intollerant and hateful cult Hirsi portrays it as. The Hirsi's of this world don't seek an actual "conversation" about Islam that might be useful - seeking understanding and common ground with muslims and sympathetic leftists, that sort of thing. No, she seeks only to oppose and 'stick it' to the progressives as if its some childish point scoring game. Not unlike how the partisans carry on here on this forum. She's just a little bit more sophisticated about it. She is cynical, using her blatant lies about her "oppressive" background to further her agenda and further her political career.

Hirsi actually stands steadfastly against what you call for aqua - which is to sit down and have a constructive and civilized dialogue to work out our differences. Muslims themselves have stressed this - pointing out that she is right to 'start a conversation' on the plethora of problems in the muslim world - its just a shame that a conversation is not what she's actually interested in. So I really don't know why you are defending her - other than the obvious point that she shouldn't be labelled a criminal (which I don't think anyone here is advocating anyway, so seems like a strawman to me).
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #59 - Jun 17th, 2019 at 2:39pm
 
aquascoot wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 12:59pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 11:57am:
aquascoot wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 10:55am:
Are you asserting the Southern poverty  law centre is a conservative institution


No, dear, I'm talking about apologists. Why do you think they're from "the left"?



ben affleck was on Bill Maher and went full on nuclear because maher expressed concerns about islam.
Ben said that Maher just hated "brown people"
but hirsi ali IS BROWN.
she is a WOMAN.
she was targetted for death by islamists in holland and because she had security and her producer did not, they murdered him and pin a death threat to her on his corpse.

now she flees to america and the sothern poverty law centre, a very well funded entity publishes a list with her as a hate criminal.
people from the left dox her saying they see her regularly at a certain starbucks or farmers market.
this is clearly designed to send her the message that she stops criticising islam or she might just get taken out.
the idea that a refugee should walk around with a target on her back because she dares criticise something the left dont want criticised is abhorent.

it is silencing people through the absolute worst kind of bullying.
you karnal should be better then that.
i know moth and gandy are a little thick , but you have a good brain and you know exactly what the left are doing by listing someone as a hate criminal and then revealing their personal details.

thats pretty evil. thats actually pretty unhinged


Oh, I think we all know she's BROWN, dear.

I haven't seen anyone here criticising her for that. Nor have I seen anyone say she shouldn't get refuge from a violent family or go to Starbucks.

Mother and Gandy, however, have questioned some of her alleged facts. Questioning somebody's porkies is hardly attributable only to "the left". I would hardly call it bullying.

But alas, you seem bothered about them talking about her at all. And here I was thinking FD was the only one who refused to admit uses porkies in his campaign against the Muselman,

You?
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #60 - Jun 17th, 2019 at 2:51pm
 
aquascoot wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 1:05pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 12:55pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 11:33am:
mothra wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 9:19am:
You like her because she denounces Islam. Were she beating the drum for feminism, you would call her addicted to emotional responses.


So true mothra. Aqua is all over the shot on this one with a clearly irrational apologia for a hate monger who cynically uses blatant lies to further her political career.


Interesting how they change, isn't it?

They start out as free-traders opposing government regulation. They come to fixate on "the left". They join the bigots and reactionaries in attacking the so-called progressives.

Before long, they've become "patriots", promoting tyranny and opposing any form of freedom whatsoever, with one small exception:

The freedom to attack the tinted.

We've seen it all over the years here. We've watched sane, tolerant people morph into rabid racists until finally, they scoff at the notion of racism itself.

Racism: so passé.

Aquascoot is now going through this process. Personally, I don't think he's racist at all, but as he blends in with the bigots he is exposed to their porkies, porkies that, as we know all too well, are used in the war against the tinted.

There's no bigger zealot than a convert, and no one is more comfortable spreading lies. The newcomers have been through the process of conversion, the staged brainwashing of the cult. No one feels more than the convert the imperative of bringing souls to the cause, whatever it takes.

There's your Muselman, for a start. Their suicide bombers are usually young, dumb and full of cum converts. It's the same with your "patriot" bomber or shooter.

Having seen it here, we know how easy it is to be brainwashed. Aquascoot is going through the process himself, first through Trump, and now through the anti-Islam/tinted campaign. This is why hate-speech needs to be addressed, and it all comes back to race.

You'll never shift the entrenched white supremacist through reason. How much luck have you had with FD?

But you can stop people being converted by addressing the lies at the outset.





dude , i am no trump lover.
i think he's pure entertainment .
and lets face it the economy is doing fine and unemployment is fine and the sky is not falling.

but i do think there is a need to have an open and frank discussion about the ideology of islam.

and that cant be had at the moment.

you raise it in any context and you are branded an islamophobe and the debate is shut down.
thats unhealthy and you know it.

the prayers, the fasting, the getting together, the hospitality, the code of conduct of islam is all fine.
but we have to be able to discuss the bits that arent fine and thats never going to happen if one side labels any criticism as hate .


That's true, Aquascoot, and I completely agree. But there are plenty of people who criticise Islam solely out of hate.

You know them, this board's full of them. They use Islam as a Trojan horse. Their real plan is to ban and kill the tinted races in the fullness of time.

Some will admit it, some won't. Some pretend they're not racist - you know; they slept with one once, they had a Boong at their school, they live next door to a Paki. But they run when you call this into question.

FD runs a mile from any sort of question at all, but the question he's run furthest from is whether he likes to tell porkies. He can't handle that one at all.

You?
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #61 - Jun 17th, 2019 at 3:08pm
 
Well some good posts there gandalf and karnal.

To my own eye, we have made enormous progress on women's rights, racial equality and gay rights.
A black president, a black middle class, female prime ministers all over the place. Every family has a gay member. No ones in the closet.

So the left should probably say thanks for being so cool, we have come a long way, you white males are awesome .

But Islam hasn't really been touched.
I really don't get it.
Like Christianity, we can keep the good stuff (the beatitudes) and jettison a lot of it.

But from my understanding, you can't even buy a Koran that isn't in Arabic.
And it's the Muslims themselves that need to come out and say " we have some good things, but we know a lot of it needs to be jettisoned"

I have never heard anyone say that,
1 billion people and no one says that.
They obviously think it, but why won't they say that.
Thoughts ?
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #62 - Jun 17th, 2019 at 4:47pm
 
Ohh my gosh  ... a common sense, reasonably well presented argument  by horse boy without going into one of his long winded rants .... I never thought I'd see the day


aquascoot wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 3:08pm:
But Islam hasn't really been touched.


I disagree. The fact that there are millions of Muslims with no desire to kill the infidel, many with a willingness to share our traditions and customs, says otherwise.

That's not to say that there still isn't a lot of work to be done.
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I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #63 - Jun 17th, 2019 at 5:22pm
 
aquascoot wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 3:08pm:
Well some good posts there gandalf and karnal.

To my own eye, we have made enormous progress on women's rights, racial equality and gay rights.
A black president, a black middle class, female prime ministers all over the place. Every family has a gay member. No ones in the closet.

So the left should probably say thanks for being so cool, we have come a long way, you white males are awesome .

But Islam hasn't really been touched.
I really don't get it.
Like Christianity, we can keep the good stuff (the beatitudes) and jettison a lot of it.

But from my understanding, you can't even buy a Koran that isn't in Arabic.
And it's the Muslims themselves that need to come out and say " we have some good things, but we know a lot of it needs to be jettisoned"

I have never heard anyone say that,
1 billion people and no one says that.
They obviously think it, but why won't they say that.
Thoughts ?


It sounds to me like you want "the left" to say: Whitey, you're really awesome, and: Muselman, you're a jolly rotter.

You people are so terrible you won't even write the Quran in English.

Pathetic.

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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #64 - Jun 17th, 2019 at 5:28pm
 
aquascoot wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 3:08pm:
Well some good posts there gandalf and karnal.

To my own eye, we have made enormous progress on women's rights, racial equality and gay rights.
A black president, a black middle class, female prime ministers all over the place. Every family has a gay member. No ones in the closet.

So the left should probably say thanks for being so cool, we have come a long way, you white males are awesome .

But Islam hasn't really been touched.
I really don't get it.
Like Christianity, we can keep the good stuff (the beatitudes) and jettison a lot of it.

But from my understanding, you can't even buy a Koran that isn't in Arabic.
And it's the Muslims themselves that need to come out and say " we have some good things, but we know a lot of it needs to be jettisoned"

I have never heard anyone say that,
1 billion people and no one says that.
They obviously think it, but why won't they say that.
Thoughts ?


Aqua I actually agree in the sense that criticising Islam is too often not considered PC. Believe it or not, I'd actually like to see Islamic doctrine put more into the spotlight in the context of our societal values. And from the perspective of muslims, doing so shouldn't be considered "anti-Islam". We should welcome it. Frustratingly though, its very often the well-intentioned non-muslim progressives who shut down debate. This allows the problems in Islam to fester, and resentment in society to grow.

Thats one side of the coin. But there is another side - which we all need to acknowledge too.

The other side is that much criticism of Islam is drawn from genuine bigotry, and (dare I say it), genuine racism. K alluded to such sentiments present on this very forum. People who have no interest whatsoever in understanding Islam and working through the issues with decent, moderate muslims. The line between legitimate criticism of the religion of Islam and hate-speech and incitement against muslim people is extremely fine, but too often it is dismissed. This is disingenuous IMO.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #65 - Jun 17th, 2019 at 6:15pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 5:22pm:
aquascoot wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 3:08pm:
Well some good posts there gandalf and karnal.

To my own eye, we have made enormous progress on women's rights, racial equality and gay rights.
A black president, a black middle class, female prime ministers all over the place. Every family has a gay member. No ones in the closet.

So the left should probably say thanks for being so cool, we have come a long way, you white males are awesome .

But Islam hasn't really been touched.
I really don't get it.
Like Christianity, we can keep the good stuff (the beatitudes) and jettison a lot of it.

But from my understanding, you can't even buy a Koran that isn't in Arabic.
And it's the Muslims themselves that need to come out and say " we have some good things, but we know a lot of it needs to be jettisoned"

I have never heard anyone say that,
1 billion people and no one says that.
They obviously think it, but why won't they say that.
Thoughts ?


It sounds to me like you want "the left" to say: Whitey, you're really awesome, and: Muselman, you're a jolly rotter.

You people are so terrible you won't even write the Quran in English.

Pathetic.




Still manning the barricades , long after the battle was won.
Someone who won't take Yes for an answer Cheesy Cheesy
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #66 - Jun 17th, 2019 at 6:28pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 5:28pm:
aquascoot wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 3:08pm:
Well some good posts there gandalf and karnal.

To my own eye, we have made enormous progress on women's rights, racial equality and gay rights.
A black president, a black middle class, female prime ministers all over the place. Every family has a gay member. No ones in the closet.

So the left should probably say thanks for being so cool, we have come a long way, you white males are awesome .

But Islam hasn't really been touched.
I really don't get it.
Like Christianity, we can keep the good stuff (the beatitudes) and jettison a lot of it.

But from my understanding, you can't even buy a Koran that isn't in Arabic.
And it's the Muslims themselves that need to come out and say " we have some good things, but we know a lot of it needs to be jettisoned"

I have never heard anyone say that,
1 billion people and no one says that.
They obviously think it, but why won't they say that.
Thoughts ?


Aqua I actually agree in the sense that criticising Islam is too often not considered PC. Believe it or not, I'd actually like to see Islamic doctrine put more into the spotlight in the context of our societal values. And from the perspective of muslims, doing so shouldn't be considered "anti-Islam". We should welcome it. Frustratingly though, its very often the well-intentioned non-muslim progressives who shut down debate. This allows the problems in Islam to fester, and resentment in society to grow.

Thats one side of the coin. But there is another side - which we all need to acknowledge too.

The other side is that much criticism of Islam is drawn from genuine bigotry, and (dare I say it), genuine racism. K alluded to such sentiments present on this very forum. People who have no interest whatsoever in understanding Islam and working through the issues with decent, moderate muslims. The line between legitimate criticism of the religion of Islam and hate-speech and incitement against muslim people is extremely fine, but too often it is dismissed. This is disingenuous IMO.



Nice gandalf.
 
I was raised Christian and I like some parts of the New Testament but I'm calling a lot of the Old Testament total rubbish.
I can say that to Christians and they are ok with that.

I would imagine most Muslims are similarly cherry picking.

I do believe we need to be able to discuss bad ideas.
I don't think people are bad.
I think a Christian who tries to kill an abortion clinic doctor is doing this out of love for unborn children .
I don't think he is a psychopath who would be killing people regardless.

And I think a member of ISIS who tosses a gay dude off a building is doing it because he honestly believes the guy will benefit from the application of infallible doctrine.
I saw a clip of an ISIS guy and he had genuine tears as he did it.
Again, I don't think this guy would be doing this without the bad ideas in the Koran.

I think we have moved on from the bible nd the Koran but they MUST contain one wisdom, or they would not have inspired billions of people.

So the time has come for a full and frank discussion about what stays in and what is to be ignored.

Now THAT is a MASSIVE challenge.

But I would still rather people were secular Christians or secular Muslims or secular Buddhists.

You need a set of core principles.

Or lose you become nihilistic lost and resentful.

I could convert to Islam if they would let me cherry pick the bits I liked.
Not a problem
Would they let me do that?

I am not so sure
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #67 - Jun 17th, 2019 at 8:25pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 12:55pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 11:33am:
mothra wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 9:19am:
You like her because she denounces Islam. Were she beating the drum for feminism, you would call her addicted to emotional responses.


So true mothra. Aqua is all over the shot on this one with a clearly irrational apologia for a hate monger who cynically uses blatant lies to further her political career.


Interesting how they change, isn't it?

They start out as free-traders opposing government regulation. They come to fixate on "the left". They join the bigots and reactionaries in attacking the so-called progressives.

Before long, they've become "patriots", promoting tyranny and opposing any form of freedom whatsoever, with one small exception:

The freedom to attack the tinted.

We've seen it all over the years here. We've watched sane, tolerant people morph into rabid racists until finally, they scoff at the notion of racism itself.

Racism: so passé.

Aquascoot is now going through this process. Personally, I don't think he's racist at all, but as he blends in with the bigots he is exposed to their porkies, porkies that, as we know all too well, are used in the war against the tinted.

There's no bigger zealot than a convert, and no one is more comfortable spreading lies. The newcomers have been through the process of conversion, the staged brainwashing of the cult. No one feels more than the convert the imperative of bringing souls to the cause, whatever it takes.

There's your Muselman, for a start. Their suicide bombers are usually young, dumb and full of cum converts. It's the same with your "patriot" bomber or shooter.

Having seen it here, we know how easy it is to be brainwashed. Aquascoot is going through the process himself, first through Trump, and now through the anti-Islam/tinted campaign. This is why hate-speech needs to be addressed, and it all comes back to race.

You'll never shift the entrenched white supremacist through reason. How much luck have you had with FD?

But you can stop people being converted by addressing the lies at the outset.



Western - white - civilisation is objectively better than all the others.

It may pain all the others, and if they stayed in their own countries they would have credibility- but all the 'just as good if not better' tinted people are busting to go to WHITE countries they so roundly despise.

Tinted people do not know how to digest the inferiority of their various cultures.

Aborigines are eaten by resentment. All natives are. All colonised, tinted people are.






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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #68 - Jun 17th, 2019 at 8:32pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 11:28am:
Hirsi tacitly promoting violence against muslims



Muslims actually KILL people.   For Mohammed. For Islam.  Nothing tacit (interpretation) in that.


The more you defend jihad the more despicable you become.





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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #69 - Jun 17th, 2019 at 10:36pm
 
Frank wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 8:32pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 11:28am:
Hirsi tacitly promoting violence against muslims



Muslims actually KILL people.   For Mohammed. For Islam.  Nothing tacit (interpretation) in that.


The more you defend jihad the more despicable you become.


Frank, I find your ideas and intolerance not just dispicable, but outright dangerous.

And we saw in Christchurch where your ideas and intolerance leads to. You and Tarrant are basically cut from the same cloth.

And yet I can call you out and criticise your ideas without advocating violence against you - tacit or otherwise.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #70 - Jun 18th, 2019 at 5:25am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 10:36pm:
Frank wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 8:32pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 11:28am:
Hirsi tacitly promoting violence against muslims



Muslims actually KILL people.   For Mohammed. For Islam.  Nothing tacit (interpretation) in that.


The more you defend jihad the more despicable you become.


Frank, I find your ideas and intolerance not just dispicable, but outright dangerous.

And we saw in Christchurch where your ideas and intolerance leads to. You and Tarrant are basically cut from the same cloth.

And yet I can call you out and criticise your ideas without advocating violence against you - tacit or otherwise.


thats fine gandalph.

i am happy to say deuteronomy and leviticus are part of the satanic verses.
i doubt pope francis will declare a fatwah on me.

now it behoves a billion muslims to get behind rushdie and say that there are satanic verses in the koran.

if they did that, problem solved.

then we can all move forward on common ground


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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #71 - Jun 19th, 2019 at 11:30am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 10:36pm:
Frank wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 8:32pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 11:28am:
Hirsi tacitly promoting violence against muslims



Muslims actually KILL people.   For Mohammed. For Islam.  Nothing tacit (interpretation) in that.


The more you defend jihad the more despicable you become.


Frank, I find your ideas and intolerance not just dispicable, but outright dangerous.

And we saw in Christchurch where your ideas and intolerance leads to. You and Tarrant are basically cut from the same cloth.

And yet I can call you out and criticise your ideas without advocating violence against you - tacit or otherwise.

Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy

You expect me to tolerate jihad??? Muslims kill for Allah and Islam every day. Am I know dangerous for noticing murderous jihad as well as stealth jihad?


You should put your efforts into stopping Muslim violence, oppression, terrorism.
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #72 - Jun 19th, 2019 at 11:33am
 
aquascoot wrote on Jun 18th, 2019 at 5:25am:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 10:36pm:
Frank wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 8:32pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 11:28am:
Hirsi tacitly promoting violence against muslims



Muslims actually KILL people.   For Mohammed. For Islam.  Nothing tacit (interpretation) in that.


The more you defend jihad the more despicable you become.


Frank, I find your ideas and intolerance not just dispicable, but outright dangerous.

And we saw in Christchurch where your ideas and intolerance leads to. You and Tarrant are basically cut from the same cloth.

And yet I can call you out and criticise your ideas without advocating violence against you - tacit or otherwise.


thats fine gandalph.

i am happy to say deuteronomy and leviticus are part of the satanic verses.
i doubt pope francis will declare a fatwah on me.

now it behoves a billion muslims to get behind rushdie and say that there are satanic verses in the koran.

if they did that, problem solved.

then we can all move forward on common ground



Not going to happen, there is no common ground.
Islam will always want to dominate.

There is no concession or compromise on the unalterable final word of Allah. Liberal democracy and secularism are based on unfolding customs and compromise. No room for any of that in Islam.

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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #73 - Jun 19th, 2019 at 1:36pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 10:36pm:
Frank wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 8:32pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 11:28am:
Hirsi tacitly promoting violence against muslims



Muslims actually KILL people.   For Mohammed. For Islam.  Nothing tacit (interpretation) in that.


The more you defend jihad the more despicable you become.


Frank, I find your ideas and intolerance not just dispicable, but outright dangerous.

And we saw in Christchurch where your ideas and intolerance leads to. You and Tarrant are basically cut from the same cloth. .


Not that there's anything wrong with that, G.

Rich tapestry, innit.
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #74 - Jun 19th, 2019 at 2:32pm
 
Frank wrote on Jun 19th, 2019 at 11:30am:
You expect me to tolerate jihad???


No, I expect you to know who you're actual enemy is, which is not me.

I should expect you to discontinue blaming and mocking me for the things I condemn and denounce on a daily basis. I should expect you to not keep unsubtly implying, day in day out, that I am literally one of the terrorists.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #75 - Jun 19th, 2019 at 6:46pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 11:28am:
Hirsi tacitly promoting violence against muslims:

Quote:
Hirsi Ali: I think that we are at war with Islam. And there's no middle ground in wars. Islam can be defeated in many ways. For starters, you stop the spread of the ideology itself; at present, there are native Westerners converting to Islam, and they're the most fanatical sometimes. There is infiltration of Islam in the schools and universities of the West. You stop that. You stop the symbol burning and the effigy burning, and you look them in the eye and flex your muscles and you say, "This is a warning. We won't accept this anymore." There comes a moment when you crush your enemy.

Reason: Militarily?

Hirsi Ali: In all forms, and if you don't do that, then you have to live with the consequence of being crushed.


https://reason.com/2007/10/10/the-trouble-is-the-west


Are you glad we crushed ISIS Gandalf?
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #76 - Jun 19th, 2019 at 6:55pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 12:16am:
freediver wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 11:51pm:
Quote:
I'm saying she lied about living through the war in Somalia to benefit her political career.


What did she say?


that she had fled the war in Somalia to get asylum -when in truth she moved from Kenya:

Quote:
Hirsi Ali had long ago alerted her party to the 'lie' in her 1992 asylum application. She had claimed to come from Somalia (where she lived as a child) because, being a wartorn country, it would qualify her for asylum. She has publicly stated several times she was ashamed of doing so. The truth was that she had lived for 10 years as a refugee in Kenya.


Are you expecting me to dig up the exact quote she gave to Dutch immigration officials?


I am asking you to back up your interpretation of events. So far the actual evidence you have produced shows her harming her political career. Even the quote you presented uses inverted commas on the word lie. What do you think that means?

From what I can gather, she used her grandfather's surname on her asylum application, which she was perfectly entitled to do, and people have used this 'lie' to imply, but not directly say, that she lied about all manner of other things. Once you go looking for the actual lie, it disappears. Muslims and their apologists have been frantically trashing this woman to delegitimise her apostasy and her criticism of Islam. The SPLC for example lied about her spreading hate speech. And Muslims like you look for the worst of the misrepresentations and parrot them without thinking.
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #77 - Jun 20th, 2019 at 12:19am
 
freediver wrote on Jun 19th, 2019 at 6:55pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 12:16am:
freediver wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 11:51pm:
Quote:
I'm saying she lied about living through the war in Somalia to benefit her political career.


What did she say?


that she had fled the war in Somalia to get asylum -when in truth she moved from Kenya:

Quote:
Hirsi Ali had long ago alerted her party to the 'lie' in her 1992 asylum application. She had claimed to come from Somalia (where she lived as a child) because, being a wartorn country, it would qualify her for asylum. She has publicly stated several times she was ashamed of doing so. The truth was that she had lived for 10 years as a refugee in Kenya.


Are you expecting me to dig up the exact quote she gave to Dutch immigration officials?


I am asking you to back up your interpretation of events. So far the actual evidence you have produced shows her harming her political career. Even the quote you presented uses inverted commas on the word lie. What do you think that means?

From what I can gather, she used her grandfather's surname on her asylum application, which she was perfectly entitled to do, and people have used this 'lie' to imply, but not directly say, that she lied about all manner of other things. Once you go looking for the actual lie, it disappears. Muslims and their apologists have been frantically trashing this woman to delegitimise her apostasy and her criticism of Islam. The SPLC for example lied about her spreading hate speech. And Muslims like you look for the worst of the misrepresentations and parrot them without thinking.

It doesn't take any looking to notice she's a liar. The only other option is that she's extremely slow thinking, uneducated and ignorant. She doesn't seem to be. Yet, every other thing she says about Islam is incorrect.

Nobody cares she left Islam. Its good she did. But the way she tries to get the eternal fame by harming the Muslim world can be expected to bring her harm.
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #78 - Jun 20th, 2019 at 1:15am
 
freediver wrote on Jun 19th, 2019 at 6:55pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 12:16am:
freediver wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 11:51pm:
Quote:
I'm saying she lied about living through the war in Somalia to benefit her political career.


What did she say?


that she had fled the war in Somalia to get asylum -when in truth she moved from Kenya:

Quote:
Hirsi Ali had long ago alerted her party to the 'lie' in her 1992 asylum application. She had claimed to come from Somalia (where she lived as a child) because, being a wartorn country, it would qualify her for asylum. She has publicly stated several times she was ashamed of doing so. The truth was that she had lived for 10 years as a refugee in Kenya.


Are you expecting me to dig up the exact quote she gave to Dutch immigration officials?


I am asking you to back up your interpretation of events. So far the actual evidence you have produced shows her harming her political career. Even the quote you presented uses inverted commas on the word lie. What do you think that means?

From what I can gather, she used her grandfather's surname on her asylum application, which she was perfectly entitled to do, and people have used this 'lie' to imply, but not directly say, that she lied about all manner of other things. Once you go looking for the actual lie, it disappears. Muslims and their apologists have been frantically trashing this woman to delegitimise her apostasy and her criticism of Islam. The SPLC for example lied about her spreading hate speech. And Muslims like you look for the worst of the misrepresentations and parrot them without thinking.


OK FD, we can do it this way if you like:

Are you disputing the claim that she told Dutch immigration officials she fled Somalia - as stated in the sources I quoted?

Or are you disputing the claim that she even was in Kenya right before she sought asylum in Holland - as also stated in the sources I quoted?

If you are persisting with the pedantic 'show me evidence that isn't second hand accounts', then don't bother - I have none. But I'd like to first confirm that you don't actually accept the two claims above as given, accepted knowledge, even though it seems be accepted as such by everyone else, including the journalists I quoted, as well as Hirsi herself.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #79 - Jun 20th, 2019 at 1:29am
 
freediver wrote on Jun 19th, 2019 at 6:46pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 11:28am:
Hirsi tacitly promoting violence against muslims:

Quote:
Hirsi Ali: I think that we are at war with Islam. And there's no middle ground in wars. Islam can be defeated in many ways. For starters, you stop the spread of the ideology itself; at present, there are native Westerners converting to Islam, and they're the most fanatical sometimes. There is infiltration of Islam in the schools and universities of the West. You stop that. You stop the symbol burning and the effigy burning, and you look them in the eye and flex your muscles and you say, "This is a warning. We won't accept this anymore." There comes a moment when you crush your enemy.

Reason: Militarily?

Hirsi Ali: In all forms, and if you don't do that, then you have to live with the consequence of being crushed.


https://reason.com/2007/10/10/the-trouble-is-the-west


Are you glad we crushed ISIS Gandalf?


She doesn't want to crush only ISIS FD, she wants to crush "Islam".

If she meant she wanted to crush Islamic militants or terrorists like ISIS, she would presumably have been more specific.

Leaving the door open with the disturbingly vague "Islam" is deeply ominous IMO.

In my opinion Islam critics who profess adherence to individual rights and freedoms (as she does) are obliged, when prosecuting their 'war on Islam', to be careful to make the distinction between unacceptable extremist muslims who wish harm upon society, and law abiding peaceful muslims who wish no harm - *ESPECIALLY* when they are justifying the use of violence.

Yet, its amazing how so many individual rights/freedom professing Islam critics seem to go out of their way to avoid making such a distinction. Not to mention their spineless apologising for Islamophobes who explicitly call for law abiding peaceful muslims' freedoms and rights to be curbed.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #80 - Jun 20th, 2019 at 2:32am
 
Faruk wrote on Jun 20th, 2019 at 12:19am:
freediver wrote on Jun 19th, 2019 at 6:55pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 12:16am:
freediver wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 11:51pm:
Quote:
I'm saying she lied about living through the war in Somalia to benefit her political career.


What did she say?


that she had fled the war in Somalia to get asylum -when in truth she moved from Kenya:

Quote:
Hirsi Ali had long ago alerted her party to the 'lie' in her 1992 asylum application. She had claimed to come from Somalia (where she lived as a child) because, being a wartorn country, it would qualify her for asylum. She has publicly stated several times she was ashamed of doing so. The truth was that she had lived for 10 years as a refugee in Kenya.


Are you expecting me to dig up the exact quote she gave to Dutch immigration officials?


I am asking you to back up your interpretation of events. So far the actual evidence you have produced shows her harming her political career. Even the quote you presented uses inverted commas on the word lie. What do you think that means?

From what I can gather, she used her grandfather's surname on her asylum application, which she was perfectly entitled to do, and people have used this 'lie' to imply, but not directly say, that she lied about all manner of other things. Once you go looking for the actual lie, it disappears. Muslims and their apologists have been frantically trashing this woman to delegitimise her apostasy and her criticism of Islam. The SPLC for example lied about her spreading hate speech. And Muslims like you look for the worst of the misrepresentations and parrot them without thinking.

It doesn't take any looking to notice she's a liar. The only other option is that she's extremely slow thinking, uneducated and ignorant. She doesn't seem to be. Yet, every other thing she says about Islam is incorrect.

Nobody cares she left Islam. Its good she did. But the way she tries to get the eternal fame by harming the Muslim world can be expected to bring her harm.


What do you think you're doing here, Faruk? I already told you, go and find your own board, this one's mine.
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #81 - Jun 20th, 2019 at 2:42am
 
freediver wrote on Jun 19th, 2019 at 6:55pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 12:16am:
freediver wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 11:51pm:
Quote:
I'm saying she lied about living through the war in Somalia to benefit her political career.


What did she say?


that she had fled the war in Somalia to get asylum -when in truth she moved from Kenya:

Quote:
Hirsi Ali had long ago alerted her party to the 'lie' in her 1992 asylum application. She had claimed to come from Somalia (where she lived as a child) because, being a wartorn country, it would qualify her for asylum. She has publicly stated several times she was ashamed of doing so. The truth was that she had lived for 10 years as a refugee in Kenya.


Are you expecting me to dig up the exact quote she gave to Dutch immigration officials?


I am asking you to back up your interpretation of events. So far the actual evidence you have produced shows her harming her political career. Even the quote you presented uses inverted commas on the word lie. What do you think that means?

From what I can gather, she used her grandfather's surname on her asylum application, which she was perfectly entitled to do, and people have used this 'lie' to imply, but not directly say, that she lied about all manner of other things. Once you go looking for the actual lie, it disappears. Muslims and their apologists have been frantically trashing this woman to delegitimise her apostasy and her criticism of Islam. The SPLC for example lied about her spreading hate speech. And Muslims like you look for the worst of the misrepresentations and parrot them without thinking.


Now he's defending Muslims who lie at the airport, despite FD devising a number of questions designed to to trip the Muselman up and keep our country safe from Islam/tintedness.

Do you believe in Freeeedom?

Who is the enemy of decent white people everywhere?

Would an actor who starred in a movie mocking Muhammad be able to travel to any Muslim-majority nation without having a rational reason to fear for their life?

A simple yes or no will suffice.
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #82 - Jun 20th, 2019 at 1:24pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 20th, 2019 at 1:15am:
freediver wrote on Jun 19th, 2019 at 6:55pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 12:16am:
freediver wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 11:51pm:
Quote:
I'm saying she lied about living through the war in Somalia to benefit her political career.


What did she say?


that she had fled the war in Somalia to get asylum -when in truth she moved from Kenya:

Quote:
Hirsi Ali had long ago alerted her party to the 'lie' in her 1992 asylum application. She had claimed to come from Somalia (where she lived as a child) because, being a wartorn country, it would qualify her for asylum. She has publicly stated several times she was ashamed of doing so. The truth was that she had lived for 10 years as a refugee in Kenya.


Are you expecting me to dig up the exact quote she gave to Dutch immigration officials?


I am asking you to back up your interpretation of events. So far the actual evidence you have produced shows her harming her political career. Even the quote you presented uses inverted commas on the word lie. What do you think that means?

From what I can gather, she used her grandfather's surname on her asylum application, which she was perfectly entitled to do, and people have used this 'lie' to imply, but not directly say, that she lied about all manner of other things. Once you go looking for the actual lie, it disappears. Muslims and their apologists have been frantically trashing this woman to delegitimise her apostasy and her criticism of Islam. The SPLC for example lied about her spreading hate speech. And Muslims like you look for the worst of the misrepresentations and parrot them without thinking.


OK FD, we can do it this way if you like:

Are you disputing the claim that she told Dutch immigration officials she fled Somalia - as stated in the sources I quoted?

Or are you disputing the claim that she even was in Kenya right before she sought asylum in Holland - as also stated in the sources I quoted?

If you are persisting with the pedantic 'show me evidence that isn't second hand accounts', then don't bother - I have none. But I'd like to first confirm that you don't actually accept the two claims above as given, accepted knowledge, even though it seems be accepted as such by everyone else, including the journalists I quoted, as well as Hirsi herself.


I have no idea what she actually said Gandalf, because none of the people who accuse her of lying have produced the goods. I smell a rat.
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #83 - Jun 20th, 2019 at 2:05pm
 
Journalists rarely "produce the goods" when reporting their investigations FD - yet we tend to accept them at their word.

The point surely, is that no one is actually disputing that she lied - least of all Hirsi herself. She has had ample opportunity to do so, but hasn't. You'd think if she really did flee war-torn Somalia as she claimed, instead of a comfortable existence in Kenya, she would want to correct the record. Instead, when confronted with that, and the other lies she simply said (and I quote) “Yeah, I made up the whole thing”. And its also pretty clearly implied that she was referring to the 'fleeing war' lie - as she was reported as contending that she was instead 'fleeing' a forced marriage:

Quote:
The TV programme, broadcast 10 days ago, highlighted the fact that Hirsi Ali had falsified her original asylum application in Holland, saying that she had not come from war-torn Somalia as she claimed, but from Kenya, where she had lived peacefully for 10 years. The fact that she had lied was well-known, retorted Hirsi Ali, making the point that was she was fleeing a forced marriage.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/may/21/jasonburke.theobserver

Are any of Hirsi's advocates actually using the 'fled from Somalia' sob story anymore - as they were as she was kick-starting her political career? I suspect not.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #84 - Jun 20th, 2019 at 6:29pm
 
Quote:
Journalists rarely "produce the goods" when reporting their investigations FD - yet we tend to accept them at their word.


Most proper journalists quote people.
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #85 - Jun 20th, 2019 at 6:31pm
 
Faruk wrote on Jun 20th, 2019 at 12:19am:
freediver wrote on Jun 19th, 2019 at 6:55pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 12:16am:
freediver wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 11:51pm:
Quote:
I'm saying she lied about living through the war in Somalia to benefit her political career.


What did she say?


that she had fled the war in Somalia to get asylum -when in truth she moved from Kenya:

Quote:
Hirsi Ali had long ago alerted her party to the 'lie' in her 1992 asylum application. She had claimed to come from Somalia (where she lived as a child) because, being a wartorn country, it would qualify her for asylum. She has publicly stated several times she was ashamed of doing so. The truth was that she had lived for 10 years as a refugee in Kenya.


Are you expecting me to dig up the exact quote she gave to Dutch immigration officials?


I am asking you to back up your interpretation of events. So far the actual evidence you have produced shows her harming her political career. Even the quote you presented uses inverted commas on the word lie. What do you think that means?

From what I can gather, she used her grandfather's surname on her asylum application, which she was perfectly entitled to do, and people have used this 'lie' to imply, but not directly say, that she lied about all manner of other things. Once you go looking for the actual lie, it disappears. Muslims and their apologists have been frantically trashing this woman to delegitimise her apostasy and her criticism of Islam. The SPLC for example lied about her spreading hate speech. And Muslims like you look for the worst of the misrepresentations and parrot them without thinking.

It doesn't take any looking to notice she's a liar. The only other option is that she's extremely slow thinking, uneducated and ignorant. She doesn't seem to be. Yet, every other thing she says about Islam is incorrect.

Nobody cares she left Islam. Its good she did. But the way she tries to get the eternal fame by harming the Muslim world can be expected to bring her harm.




Did I just read correctly that criticiism of Islam can be expected to " bring one harm. "
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #86 - Jun 20th, 2019 at 7:30pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 20th, 2019 at 6:29pm:
Quote:
Journalists rarely "produce the goods" when reporting their investigations FD - yet we tend to accept them at their word.


Most proper journalists quote people.


As do the journalists I cited.

Do you know of a single person other than you who actually disputes the fact that she lied about where she 'fled' from FD? You do understand that there is no evidence that even Hirsi herself disputes this right?
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #87 - Jun 20th, 2019 at 8:58pm
 
Quote:
The fact that she had lied was well-known, retorted Hirsi Ali


Not a quote Gandalf. This is how the Muslims and their apologists take her use of her grandfather's surname and invent any lie they want to attribute to her.
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #88 - Jun 20th, 2019 at 9:06pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 20th, 2019 at 1:24pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 20th, 2019 at 1:15am:
freediver wrote on Jun 19th, 2019 at 6:55pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 12:16am:
freediver wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 11:51pm:
Quote:
I'm saying she lied about living through the war in Somalia to benefit her political career.


What did she say?


that she had fled the war in Somalia to get asylum -when in truth she moved from Kenya:

Quote:
Hirsi Ali had long ago alerted her party to the 'lie' in her 1992 asylum application. She had claimed to come from Somalia (where she lived as a child) because, being a wartorn country, it would qualify her for asylum. She has publicly stated several times she was ashamed of doing so. The truth was that she had lived for 10 years as a refugee in Kenya.


Are you expecting me to dig up the exact quote she gave to Dutch immigration officials?


I am asking you to back up your interpretation of events. So far the actual evidence you have produced shows her harming her political career. Even the quote you presented uses inverted commas on the word lie. What do you think that means?

From what I can gather, she used her grandfather's surname on her asylum application, which she was perfectly entitled to do, and people have used this 'lie' to imply, but not directly say, that she lied about all manner of other things. Once you go looking for the actual lie, it disappears. Muslims and their apologists have been frantically trashing this woman to delegitimise her apostasy and her criticism of Islam. The SPLC for example lied about her spreading hate speech. And Muslims like you look for the worst of the misrepresentations and parrot them without thinking.


OK FD, we can do it this way if you like:

Are you disputing the claim that she told Dutch immigration officials she fled Somalia - as stated in the sources I quoted?

Or are you disputing the claim that she even was in Kenya right before she sought asylum in Holland - as also stated in the sources I quoted?

If you are persisting with the pedantic 'show me evidence that isn't second hand accounts', then don't bother - I have none. But I'd like to first confirm that you don't actually accept the two claims above as given, accepted knowledge, even though it seems be accepted as such by everyone else, including the journalists I quoted, as well as Hirsi herself.


I have no idea what she actually said Gandalf, because none of the people who accuse her of lying have produced the goods. I smell a rat.


What do you think should happen to someone who practices taqiyya on their visa application, FD?
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #89 - Jun 20th, 2019 at 10:31pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 20th, 2019 at 8:58pm:
Quote:
The fact that she had lied was well-known, retorted Hirsi Ali


Not a quote Gandalf. This is how the Muslims and their apologists take her use of her grandfather's surname and invent any lie they want to attribute to her.


And this is the ridiculous lengths people go to apologise for liars - just because they are criticising Islam.

Or do you actually dismiss every news article that doesn't provide direct quotes of named sources? I certainly hope you do.

Do you think the journalist who reported this is lying to cover for Islam?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #90 - Jun 21st, 2019 at 4:51am
 
aquascoot wrote on Jun 20th, 2019 at 6:31pm:
Faruk wrote on Jun 20th, 2019 at 12:19am:
freediver wrote on Jun 19th, 2019 at 6:55pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17th, 2019 at 12:16am:
freediver wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 11:51pm:
Quote:
I'm saying she lied about living through the war in Somalia to benefit her political career.
What you did is called deliberate misinterpretation.

What did she say?


that she had fled the war in Somalia to get asylum -when in truth she moved from Kenya:

Quote:
Hirsi Ali had long ago alerted her party to the 'lie' in her 1992 asylum application. She had claimed to come from Somalia (where she lived as a child) because, being a wartorn country, it would qualify her for asylum. She has publicly stated several times she was ashamed of doing so. The truth was that she had lived for 10 years as a refugee in Kenya.


Are you expecting me to dig up the exact quote she gave to Dutch immigration officials?


I am asking you to back up your interpretation of events. So far the actual evidence you have produced shows her harming her political career. Even the quote you presented uses inverted commas on the word lie. What do you think that means?

From what I can gather, she used her grandfather's surname on her asylum application, which she was perfectly entitled to do, and people have used this 'lie' to imply, but not directly say, that she lied about all manner of other things. Once you go looking for the actual lie, it disappears. Muslims and their apologists have been frantically trashing this woman to delegitimise her apostasy and her criticism of Islam. The SPLC for example lied about her spreading hate speech. And Muslims like you look for the worst of the misrepresentations and parrot them without thinking.

It doesn't take any looking to notice she's a liar. The only other option is that she's extremely slow thinking, uneducated and ignorant. She doesn't seem to be. Yet, every other thing she says about Islam is incorrect.

Nobody cares she left Islam. Its good she did. But the way she tries to get the eternal fame by harming the Muslim world can be expected to bring her harm.




Did I just read correctly that criticiism of Islam can be expected to " bring one harm. "

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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #91 - Jun 21st, 2019 at 5:41am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 20th, 2019 at 10:31pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 20th, 2019 at 8:58pm:
Quote:
The fact that she had lied was well-known, retorted Hirsi Ali


Not a quote Gandalf. This is how the Muslims and their apologists take her use of her grandfather's surname and invent any lie they want to attribute to her.


And this is the ridiculous lengths people go to apologise for liars - just because they are criticising Islam.

Or do you actually dismiss every news article that doesn't provide direct quotes of named sources? I certainly hope you do.

Do you think the journalist who reported this is lying to cover for Islam?




Why the emotional upset because of"criticism".
Anyone who wants to achieve ANYTHING  must see criticism as vital.

If my kids are trying to learn to write essays or play the piano, I don't want someone sugar coating their performance.

I am a vocal critic of the Palestinians for example.
And you should be too.

Here would be my message to " move them up"

Fat Abdul and fat Sofia.
What are you doing being cry baby victims in front of your sons.
And why are your sons chucking rocks at tanks,
That's not fruitful

Get them in the library,
Get them in the gym
Start some businesses,
Buy some tanks,
Make Palestine an economic hub like Hong Kong or singapore.
Easily done,

The Singaporeans were starving mosquito ridden losers 100 years ago.

They should welcome that sort of criticism
That's not islamophobic.
That's a message of hope.
That's me sending my love to Abdul and Sofia and little Fatima.

They can climb the narrow road to success.
They just need to ignore you and abu
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #92 - Jun 21st, 2019 at 6:33am
 
aquascoot wrote on Jun 21st, 2019 at 5:41am:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 20th, 2019 at 10:31pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 20th, 2019 at 8:58pm:
Quote:
The fact that she had lied was well-known, retorted Hirsi Ali


Not a quote Gandalf. This is how the Muslims and their apologists take her use of her grandfather's surname and invent any lie they want to attribute to her.


And this is the ridiculous lengths people go to apologise for liars - just because they are criticising Islam.

Or do you actually dismiss every news article that doesn't provide direct quotes of named sources? I certainly hope you do.

Do you think the journalist who reported this is lying to cover for Islam?




Why the emotional upset because of"criticism".
Anyone who wants to achieve ANYTHING  must see criticism as vital.

If my kids are trying to learn to write essays or play the piano, I don't want someone sugar coating their performance.

I am a vocal critic of the Palestinians for example.
And you should be too.

Here would be my message to " move them up"

Fat Abdul and fat Sofia.
What are you doing being cry baby victims in front of your sons.
And why are your sons chucking rocks at tanks,
That's not fruitful

Get them in the library,
Get them in the gym
Start some businesses,
Buy some tanks,
Make Palestine an economic hub like Hong Kong or singapore.
Easily done,

The Singaporeans were starving mosquito ridden losers 100 years ago.

They should welcome that sort of criticism
That's not islamophobic.
That's a message of hope.
That's me sending my love to Abdul and Sofia and little Fatima.

They can climb the narrow road to success.
They just need to ignore you and abu

The Israelis are isolating Palestine trying to cover their own sins. That's why it's pretty difficult to raise such kids as you would call sophisticated.
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #93 - Jun 21st, 2019 at 12:02pm
 
I agree, Aquascoot. Why can't they take a bit of criticism?

Why can't they accept being thrown off their land? Why can't they accept their neighbourhoods being patrolled and shot at by Israeli soldiers? Why can't they accept the odd bombing with white phosphorous?

That's the Muslim for you. Too thin-skinned.
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #94 - Jun 21st, 2019 at 12:36pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 20th, 2019 at 10:31pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 20th, 2019 at 8:58pm:
Quote:
The fact that she had lied was well-known, retorted Hirsi Ali


Not a quote Gandalf. This is how the Muslims and their apologists take her use of her grandfather's surname and invent any lie they want to attribute to her.


And this is the ridiculous lengths people go to apologise for liars - just because they are criticising Islam.

Or do you actually dismiss every news article that doesn't provide direct quotes of named sources? I certainly hope you do.

Do you think the journalist who reported this is lying to cover for Islam?



I am asking you to provide the quote now. This is a good demonstration of why professional journalists should provide quotes, or at least clearly explain what they are accusing people of lying about. And yes, I do dismiss the lazy, sloppy journalism, and I also dismiss the imbeciles who parrot this nonsense without stopping to think what is going on. Even when it is pointed out to you, you still insist on blustering your way through it without coming up with the evidence to back it up.
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #95 - Jun 21st, 2019 at 12:39pm
 
FD, what would you do with a Muslim who lied on her visa application to claim asylum?

Thoughts?
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #96 - Jun 21st, 2019 at 12:50pm
 
Faruk wrote on Jun 20th, 2019 at 12:19am:
But the way she tries to get the eternal fame by harming the Muslim world can be expected to bring her harm.


Who would harm her for using words against an ancient belief?

Do you support muslims wanting to harm her or do you think it's wrong?
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #97 - Jun 21st, 2019 at 2:26pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 21st, 2019 at 12:36pm:
I am asking you to provide the quote now.


Because you are being unnecessarily pedantic for the sake of spinelessly apologising for liars. What quote exactly would you like - the quote of her saying "Yeah, I made up the whole thing", or the actual interview of her telling immigration officials she came straight from Somalia? Its still not quite clear which piece of this story that literally no one except you is disputing (least of all Hirsi herself), you are sceptical about. Curiously you won't say.

If reputable papers such as the Guardian had reported that a prominent muslim had lied about their background in order to secure asylum in a western country, you would not be playing these silly games. You certainly wouldn't be holding the blowtorch up against any Islamophobe who was attacking said muslim over those alleged lies.
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #98 - Jun 21st, 2019 at 6:51pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Jun 21st, 2019 at 12:39pm:
FD, what would you do with a Muslim who lied on her visa application to claim asylum?

Thoughts?



To escape murderous Muslims?   I'd give her asylum.

To get into the country to commit jihadi outrages?  Something sharia compliant for traitors and enemies. Own medicine.
You? (don't tell us, we know.)


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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #99 - Jun 21st, 2019 at 8:38pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 21st, 2019 at 2:26pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 21st, 2019 at 12:36pm:
I am asking you to provide the quote now.


Because you are being unnecessarily pedantic for the sake of spinelessly apologising for liars. What quote exactly would you like - the quote of her saying "Yeah, I made up the whole thing", or the actual interview of her telling immigration officials she came straight from Somalia? Its still not quite clear which piece of this story that literally no one except you is disputing (least of all Hirsi herself), you are sceptical about. Curiously you won't say.

If reputable papers such as the Guardian had reported that a prominent muslim had lied about their background in order to secure asylum in a western country, you would not be playing these silly games. You certainly wouldn't be holding the blowtorch up against any Islamophobe who was attacking said muslim over those alleged lies.


I am asking you because I think you are wrong. Why are you so reluctant to back up what you say?
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #100 - Jun 22nd, 2019 at 1:11am
 
Frank wrote on Jun 21st, 2019 at 6:51pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Jun 21st, 2019 at 12:39pm:
FD, what would you do with a Muslim who lied on her visa application to claim asylum?

Thoughts?



To escape murderous Muslims?   I'd give her asylum.



Allow me to rephrase that.

What would you do with a Muselman who lied on her visa application who's tinted, from deepest darkest Africa?

Try answering now, Frank.
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #101 - Jun 22nd, 2019 at 1:12am
 
freediver wrote on Jun 21st, 2019 at 8:38pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 21st, 2019 at 2:26pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 21st, 2019 at 12:36pm:
I am asking you to provide the quote now.


Because you are being unnecessarily pedantic for the sake of spinelessly apologising for liars. What quote exactly would you like - the quote of her saying "Yeah, I made up the whole thing", or the actual interview of her telling immigration officials she came straight from Somalia? Its still not quite clear which piece of this story that literally no one except you is disputing (least of all Hirsi herself), you are sceptical about. Curiously you won't say.

If reputable papers such as the Guardian had reported that a prominent muslim had lied about their background in order to secure asylum in a western country, you would not be playing these silly games. You certainly wouldn't be holding the blowtorch up against any Islamophobe who was attacking said muslim over those alleged lies.


I am asking you because I think you are wrong. Why are you so reluctant to back up what you say?


FD? You didn't say.
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #102 - Jun 22nd, 2019 at 1:20pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Jun 22nd, 2019 at 1:11am:
Frank wrote on Jun 21st, 2019 at 6:51pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Jun 21st, 2019 at 12:39pm:
FD, what would you do with a Muslim who lied on her visa application to claim asylum?

Thoughts?



To escape murderous Muslims?   I'd give her asylum.



Allow me to rephrase that.

What would you do with a Muselman who lied on her visa application who's tinted, from deepest darkest Africa?

Try answering now, Frank.

Lied to escape murderous Muslims? I'd  give her asylum.
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #103 - Jun 22nd, 2019 at 1:25pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 19th, 2019 at 2:32pm:
Frank wrote on Jun 19th, 2019 at 11:30am:
You expect me to tolerate jihad???


No, I expect you to know who you're actual enemy is, which is not me.

I should expect you to discontinue blaming and mocking me for the things I condemn and denounce on a daily basis. I should expect you to not keep unsubtly implying, day in day out, that I am literally one of the terrorists.

I only ever called you a jihadist which you are.

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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #104 - Jun 24th, 2019 at 11:17pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 21st, 2019 at 8:38pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 21st, 2019 at 2:26pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 21st, 2019 at 12:36pm:
I am asking you to provide the quote now.


Because you are being unnecessarily pedantic for the sake of spinelessly apologising for liars. What quote exactly would you like - the quote of her saying "Yeah, I made up the whole thing", or the actual interview of her telling immigration officials she came straight from Somalia? Its still not quite clear which piece of this story that literally no one except you is disputing (least of all Hirsi herself), you are sceptical about. Curiously you won't say.

If reputable papers such as the Guardian had reported that a prominent muslim had lied about their background in order to secure asylum in a western country, you would not be playing these silly games. You certainly wouldn't be holding the blowtorch up against any Islamophobe who was attacking said muslim over those alleged lies.


I am asking you because I think you are wrong. Why are you so reluctant to back up what you say?


I am not concealing anything FD - I have quoted everything I have. Two articles that independently confirm she both lied about where she came from, and that she admitted it.
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #105 - Jun 24th, 2019 at 11:18pm
 
Frank wrote on Jun 22nd, 2019 at 1:25pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 19th, 2019 at 2:32pm:
Frank wrote on Jun 19th, 2019 at 11:30am:
You expect me to tolerate jihad???


No, I expect you to know who you're actual enemy is, which is not me.

I should expect you to discontinue blaming and mocking me for the things I condemn and denounce on a daily basis. I should expect you to not keep unsubtly implying, day in day out, that I am literally one of the terrorists.

I only ever called you a jihadist which you are.



As I said, unsubtly implying that i am literally one of the terrorists.
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #106 - Jun 25th, 2019 at 9:04am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 24th, 2019 at 11:17pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 21st, 2019 at 8:38pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 21st, 2019 at 2:26pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 21st, 2019 at 12:36pm:
I am asking you to provide the quote now.


Because you are being unnecessarily pedantic for the sake of spinelessly apologising for liars. What quote exactly would you like - the quote of her saying "Yeah, I made up the whole thing", or the actual interview of her telling immigration officials she came straight from Somalia? Its still not quite clear which piece of this story that literally no one except you is disputing (least of all Hirsi herself), you are sceptical about. Curiously you won't say.

If reputable papers such as the Guardian had reported that a prominent muslim had lied about their background in order to secure asylum in a western country, you would not be playing these silly games. You certainly wouldn't be holding the blowtorch up against any Islamophobe who was attacking said muslim over those alleged lies.


I am asking you because I think you are wrong. Why are you so reluctant to back up what you say?


I am not concealing anything FD - I have quoted everything I have. Two articles that independently confirm she both lied about where she came from, and that she admitted it.


The claims in the articles are vague and you cannot back them up with quotes. Don't you think it is unusual that such a controversial lie cannot be quoted?
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #107 - Jun 25th, 2019 at 3:10pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 25th, 2019 at 9:04am:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 24th, 2019 at 11:17pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 21st, 2019 at 8:38pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 21st, 2019 at 2:26pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 21st, 2019 at 12:36pm:
I am asking you to provide the quote now.


Because you are being unnecessarily pedantic for the sake of spinelessly apologising for liars. What quote exactly would you like - the quote of her saying "Yeah, I made up the whole thing", or the actual interview of her telling immigration officials she came straight from Somalia? Its still not quite clear which piece of this story that literally no one except you is disputing (least of all Hirsi herself), you are sceptical about. Curiously you won't say.

If reputable papers such as the Guardian had reported that a prominent muslim had lied about their background in order to secure asylum in a western country, you would not be playing these silly games. You certainly wouldn't be holding the blowtorch up against any Islamophobe who was attacking said muslim over those alleged lies.


I am asking you because I think you are wrong. Why are you so reluctant to back up what you say?


I am not concealing anything FD - I have quoted everything I have. Two articles that independently confirm she both lied about where she came from, and that she admitted it.


The claims in the articles are vague and you cannot back them up with quotes. Don't you think it is unusual that such a controversial lie cannot be quoted?


Gee I don't know FD, did you ever consider that its actually not a controversial lie, and its not actually disputed by anyone, and thats why no one except you is engaging in this petty and desperate nitpicking exercise?

One would have thought that Hirsi Ali herself would have said something, anything, against such a "controversial" smear - right? What has she said to defend herself FD? Oh thats right, she said, and I quote "yeah I made the whole thing up" - key being the word "whole". Anything else?
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #108 - Jun 25th, 2019 at 7:57pm
 
Here's one who lied to some other end....




Congresswoman Ilhan Omar has been in the news lately for marrying her own brother.

The reason behind this incestuous event is still unclear - we are not sure if she did it to commit immigration acceleration and thus allow her brother an expedited path to citizenship in the United States; or if she did it for reasons of the heart.

Regardless of what we think, Sharia Law is very clear on the remedy for this transgression and we must support the imposition of Sharia Law on our Muslim Congresswomen.

Former Colorado Governor, John Lickenpooper - who legalized recreational marijuana in Colorado is busy trying to get his interpretation of stoning accepted by the association of Colorado Imams which would lessen the severity of the punishment for Congresswoman Omar.
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #109 - Jun 25th, 2019 at 9:01pm
 
Frank wrote on Jun 22nd, 2019 at 1:25pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 19th, 2019 at 2:32pm:
Frank wrote on Jun 19th, 2019 at 11:30am:
You expect me to tolerate jihad???


No, I expect you to know who you're actual enemy is, which is not me.

I should expect you to discontinue blaming and mocking me for the things I condemn and denounce on a daily basis. I should expect you to not keep unsubtly implying, day in day out, that I am literally one of the terrorists.

I only ever called you a jihadist which you are.



Should we let them in if they lie on their visa application, dear boy?

Food for thought. How about those who like Danish? What if they lied about Danish and really like Pakistani?

Should we let them in too?
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #110 - Jun 25th, 2019 at 9:03pm
 
Frank wrote on Jun 25th, 2019 at 7:57pm:
Here's one who lied to some other end....




Congresswoman Ilhan Omar has been in the news lately for marrying her own brother.

The reason behind this incestuous event is still unclear - we are not sure if she did it to commit immigration acceleration and thus allow her brother an expedited path to citizenship in the United States; or if she did it for reasons of the heart.

Regardless of what we think, Sharia Law is very clear on the remedy for this transgression and we must support the imposition of Sharia Law on our Muslim Congresswomen.

Former Colorado Governor, John Lickenpooper - who legalized recreational marijuana in Colorado is busy trying to get his interpretation of stoning accepted by the association of Colorado Imams which would lessen the severity of the punishment for Congresswoman Omar.


Very droll, old boy.

Been reading Punch again, eh?

Marvellous stuff.
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #111 - Jun 26th, 2019 at 12:52pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 25th, 2019 at 3:10pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 25th, 2019 at 9:04am:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 24th, 2019 at 11:17pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 21st, 2019 at 8:38pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 21st, 2019 at 2:26pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 21st, 2019 at 12:36pm:
I am asking you to provide the quote now.


Because you are being unnecessarily pedantic for the sake of spinelessly apologising for liars. What quote exactly would you like - the quote of her saying "Yeah, I made up the whole thing", or the actual interview of her telling immigration officials she came straight from Somalia? Its still not quite clear which piece of this story that literally no one except you is disputing (least of all Hirsi herself), you are sceptical about. Curiously you won't say.

If reputable papers such as the Guardian had reported that a prominent muslim had lied about their background in order to secure asylum in a western country, you would not be playing these silly games. You certainly wouldn't be holding the blowtorch up against any Islamophobe who was attacking said muslim over those alleged lies.


I am asking you because I think you are wrong. Why are you so reluctant to back up what you say?


I am not concealing anything FD - I have quoted everything I have. Two articles that independently confirm she both lied about where she came from, and that she admitted it.


The claims in the articles are vague and you cannot back them up with quotes. Don't you think it is unusual that such a controversial lie cannot be quoted?


Gee I don't know FD, did you ever consider that its actually not a controversial lie, and its not actually disputed by anyone, and thats why no one except you is engaging in this petty and desperate nitpicking exercise?

One would have thought that Hirsi Ali herself would have said something, anything, against such a "controversial" smear - right? What has she said to defend herself FD? Oh thats right, she said, and I quote "yeah I made the whole thing up" - key being the word "whole". Anything else?


Which lie are you referring to Gandalf? She has been accused of all sorts of lies, and denied plenty of them. As far as I can tell, she admitted to using her grandfather's surname on her asylum application, which is specifically permitted under the law. You are being slippery and misleading by taking that admission as a free ticket to accuse her of anything you want. You cannot back up the claims you made, yet do not seem in the least bit bothered by this.
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #112 - Jun 26th, 2019 at 3:39pm
 
Are you saying she used a different surname to the one on her passport, FD?

I'm curious. Is this legal?
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #113 - Jun 26th, 2019 at 7:22pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Jun 26th, 2019 at 3:39pm:
Are you saying she used a different surname to the one on her passport, FD?

I'm curious. Is this legal?



Terrible crime.

She also became an apostate and made a film about it and her producer was stabbed and a death threat to her pinned to his corpse.

Now which crime should be condemn more.

I'm curious.
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #114 - Jun 26th, 2019 at 7:31pm
 
aquascoot wrote on Jun 26th, 2019 at 7:22pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Jun 26th, 2019 at 3:39pm:
Are you saying she used a different surname to the one on her passport, FD?

I'm curious. Is this legal?



Terrible crime.

She also became an apostate and made a film about it and her producer was stabbed and a death threat to her pinned to his corpse.

Now which crime should be condemn more.

I'm curious.


That depends, Aquascoot.

Is she tinted?
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #115 - Jun 27th, 2019 at 6:55pm
 


I'll take Hirsi Ali every time over this jihadist.


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Reply #116 - Jun 28th, 2019 at 11:01am
 
How can you tell, dear boy? The bearded numpties and burqad beauties all look the same, no?
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #117 - Jun 28th, 2019 at 6:42pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 26th, 2019 at 12:52pm:
Which lie are you referring to Gandalf? She has been accused of all sorts of lies, and denied plenty of them.


Oh look, FD's trying to obfuscate again with 'me no speaka da English'

I have specifically stated probably about 5 times in this thread - the specific lie that she fled to Holland straight from war-torn Somalia, when in fact she came from Kenya where she had been living for the past 10 years.

She has notably *NOT* denied that one, and is reported as saying "yeah I made the whole thing up" in response to it. Her argument, as cited in the Guardian, was that just because she lied about that, doesn't mean she was lying about fleeing danger - since she was fleeing a forced marriage.
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #118 - Jun 28th, 2019 at 7:00pm
 
So you cannot back up the claim you originally made. Nor can you quote the lie. Nor can you quote her clearly admitting it was a lie.

Another post, another obfuscation.
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #119 - Jun 28th, 2019 at 7:22pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 28th, 2019 at 7:00pm:
the claim you originally made


Oh you're English has miraculously come back and you really do know what claim I have been making. Praise be.

Well at least thats an improvement on "gandalf never clarified the specific lie he's clarified at least 5 times already"
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #120 - Jun 28th, 2019 at 7:28pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 16th, 2019 at 10:52pm:
No FD, I'm saying she lied about living through the war in Somalia to benefit her political career.


So when are you going to back this up? You have not produced the alleged lie yet, nor have you made any connection with her political career, which it only seems to have harmed.
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #121 - Jun 28th, 2019 at 7:31pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 28th, 2019 at 7:28pm:
So when are you going to back this up?


Already have FD. cf two articles I quoted.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #122 - Jun 28th, 2019 at 10:24pm
 
Would they be the ones that did not say anything specific about what she lied about?

Which of them provided evidence that she did it for her political career?
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I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT!
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