Australian Politics Forum - Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam

freediver

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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #75 - Jun 19^th, 2019 at 6:46pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17^th, 2019 at 11:28am:

Hirsi tacitly promoting violence against muslims:

Quote:

Hirsi Ali: I think that we are at war with Islam. And there's no middle ground in wars. Islam can be defeated in many ways. For starters, you stop the spread of the ideology itself; at present, there are native Westerners converting to Islam, and they're the most fanatical sometimes. There is infiltration of Islam in the schools and universities of the West. You stop that. You stop the symbol burning and the effigy burning, and you look them in the eye and flex your muscles and you say, "This is a warning. We won't accept this anymore." There comes a moment when you crush your enemy.

Reason: Militarily?

Hirsi Ali: In all forms, and if you don't do that, then you have to live with the consequence of being crushed.

https://reason.com/2007/10/10/the-trouble-is-the-west

Are you glad we crushed ISIS Gandalf?

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freediver

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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #76 - Jun 19^th, 2019 at 6:55pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17^th, 2019 at 12:16am:

freediver wrote on Jun 16^th, 2019 at 11:51pm:

Quote:

I'm saying she lied about living through the war in Somalia to benefit her political career.

What did she say?

that she had fled the war in Somalia to get asylum -when in truth she moved from Kenya:

Quote:

Hirsi Ali had long ago alerted her party to the 'lie' in her 1992 asylum application. She had claimed to come from Somalia (where she lived as a child) because, being a wartorn country, it would qualify her for asylum. She has publicly stated several times she was ashamed of doing so. The truth was that she had lived for 10 years as a refugee in Kenya.

Are you expecting me to dig up the exact quote she gave to Dutch immigration officials?

I am asking you to back up your interpretation of events. So far the actual evidence you have produced shows her harming her political career. Even the quote you presented uses inverted commas on the word lie. What do you think that means?

From what I can gather, she used her grandfather's surname on her asylum application, which she was perfectly entitled to do, and people have used this 'lie' to imply, but not directly say, that she lied about all manner of other things. Once you go looking for the actual lie, it disappears. Muslims and their apologists have been frantically trashing this woman to delegitimise her apostasy and her criticism of Islam. The SPLC for example lied about her spreading hate speech. And Muslims like you look for the worst of the misrepresentations and parrot them without thinking.

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Faruk

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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #77 - Jun 20^th, 2019 at 12:19am

freediver wrote on Jun 19^th, 2019 at 6:55pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17^th, 2019 at 12:16am:

freediver wrote on Jun 16^th, 2019 at 11:51pm:

Quote:

I'm saying she lied about living through the war in Somalia to benefit her political career.

What did she say?

that she had fled the war in Somalia to get asylum -when in truth she moved from Kenya:

Quote:

Hirsi Ali had long ago alerted her party to the 'lie' in her 1992 asylum application. She had claimed to come from Somalia (where she lived as a child) because, being a wartorn country, it would qualify her for asylum. She has publicly stated several times she was ashamed of doing so. The truth was that she had lived for 10 years as a refugee in Kenya.

Are you expecting me to dig up the exact quote she gave to Dutch immigration officials?

I am asking you to back up your interpretation of events. So far the actual evidence you have produced shows her harming her political career. Even the quote you presented uses inverted commas on the word lie. What do you think that means?

From what I can gather, she used her grandfather's surname on her asylum application, which she was perfectly entitled to do, and people have used this 'lie' to imply, but not directly say, that she lied about all manner of other things. Once you go looking for the actual lie, it disappears. Muslims and their apologists have been frantically trashing this woman to delegitimise her apostasy and her criticism of Islam. The SPLC for example lied about her spreading hate speech. And Muslims like you look for the worst of the misrepresentations and parrot them without thinking.

It doesn't take any looking to notice she's a liar. The only other option is that she's extremely slow thinking, uneducated and ignorant. She doesn't seem to be. Yet, every other thing she says about Islam is incorrect.

Nobody cares she left Islam. Its good she did. But the way she tries to get the eternal fame by harming the Muslim world can be expected to bring her harm.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #78 - Jun 20^th, 2019 at 1:15am

freediver wrote on Jun 19^th, 2019 at 6:55pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17^th, 2019 at 12:16am:

freediver wrote on Jun 16^th, 2019 at 11:51pm:

Quote:

I'm saying she lied about living through the war in Somalia to benefit her political career.

What did she say?

that she had fled the war in Somalia to get asylum -when in truth she moved from Kenya:

Quote:

Hirsi Ali had long ago alerted her party to the 'lie' in her 1992 asylum application. She had claimed to come from Somalia (where she lived as a child) because, being a wartorn country, it would qualify her for asylum. She has publicly stated several times she was ashamed of doing so. The truth was that she had lived for 10 years as a refugee in Kenya.

Are you expecting me to dig up the exact quote she gave to Dutch immigration officials?

I am asking you to back up your interpretation of events. So far the actual evidence you have produced shows her harming her political career. Even the quote you presented uses inverted commas on the word lie. What do you think that means?

From what I can gather, she used her grandfather's surname on her asylum application, which she was perfectly entitled to do, and people have used this 'lie' to imply, but not directly say, that she lied about all manner of other things. Once you go looking for the actual lie, it disappears. Muslims and their apologists have been frantically trashing this woman to delegitimise her apostasy and her criticism of Islam. The SPLC for example lied about her spreading hate speech. And Muslims like you look for the worst of the misrepresentations and parrot them without thinking.

OK FD, we can do it this way if you like:

Are you disputing the claim that she told Dutch immigration officials she fled Somalia - as stated in the sources I quoted?

Or are you disputing the claim that she even was in Kenya right before she sought asylum in Holland - as also stated in the sources I quoted?

If you are persisting with the pedantic 'show me evidence that isn't second hand accounts', then don't bother - I have none. But I'd like to first confirm that you don't actually accept the two claims above as given, accepted knowledge, even though it seems be accepted as such by everyone else, including the journalists I quoted, as well as Hirsi herself.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #79 - Jun 20^th, 2019 at 1:29am

freediver wrote on Jun 19^th, 2019 at 6:46pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17^th, 2019 at 11:28am:

Hirsi tacitly promoting violence against muslims:

Quote:

Hirsi Ali: I think that we are at war with Islam. And there's no middle ground in wars. Islam can be defeated in many ways. For starters, you stop the spread of the ideology itself; at present, there are native Westerners converting to Islam, and they're the most fanatical sometimes. There is infiltration of Islam in the schools and universities of the West. You stop that. You stop the symbol burning and the effigy burning, and you look them in the eye and flex your muscles and you say, "This is a warning. We won't accept this anymore." There comes a moment when you crush your enemy.

Reason: Militarily?

Hirsi Ali: In all forms, and if you don't do that, then you have to live with the consequence of being crushed.

https://reason.com/2007/10/10/the-trouble-is-the-west

Are you glad we crushed ISIS Gandalf?

She doesn't want to crush only ISIS FD, she wants to crush "Islam".

If she meant she wanted to crush Islamic militants or terrorists like ISIS, she would presumably have been more specific.

Leaving the door open with the disturbingly vague "Islam" is deeply ominous IMO.

In my opinion Islam critics who profess adherence to individual rights and freedoms (as she does) are obliged, when prosecuting their 'war on Islam', to be careful to make the distinction between unacceptable extremist muslims who wish harm upon society, and law abiding peaceful muslims who wish no harm - *ESPECIALLY* when they are justifying the use of violence.

Yet, its amazing how so many individual rights/freedom professing Islam critics seem to go out of their way to avoid making such a distinction. Not to mention their spineless apologising for Islamophobes who explicitly call for law abiding peaceful muslims' freedoms and rights to be curbed.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Mattyfisk

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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #80 - Jun 20^th, 2019 at 2:32am

Faruk wrote on Jun 20^th, 2019 at 12:19am:

freediver wrote on Jun 19^th, 2019 at 6:55pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17^th, 2019 at 12:16am:

freediver wrote on Jun 16^th, 2019 at 11:51pm:

Quote:

I'm saying she lied about living through the war in Somalia to benefit her political career.

What did she say?

that she had fled the war in Somalia to get asylum -when in truth she moved from Kenya:

Quote:

Hirsi Ali had long ago alerted her party to the 'lie' in her 1992 asylum application. She had claimed to come from Somalia (where she lived as a child) because, being a wartorn country, it would qualify her for asylum. She has publicly stated several times she was ashamed of doing so. The truth was that she had lived for 10 years as a refugee in Kenya.

Are you expecting me to dig up the exact quote she gave to Dutch immigration officials?

I am asking you to back up your interpretation of events. So far the actual evidence you have produced shows her harming her political career. Even the quote you presented uses inverted commas on the word lie. What do you think that means?

From what I can gather, she used her grandfather's surname on her asylum application, which she was perfectly entitled to do, and people have used this 'lie' to imply, but not directly say, that she lied about all manner of other things. Once you go looking for the actual lie, it disappears. Muslims and their apologists have been frantically trashing this woman to delegitimise her apostasy and her criticism of Islam. The SPLC for example lied about her spreading hate speech. And Muslims like you look for the worst of the misrepresentations and parrot them without thinking.

It doesn't take any looking to notice she's a liar. The only other option is that she's extremely slow thinking, uneducated and ignorant. She doesn't seem to be. Yet, every other thing she says about Islam is incorrect.

Nobody cares she left Islam. Its good she did. But the way she tries to get the eternal fame by harming the Muslim world can be expected to bring her harm.

What do you think you're doing here, Faruk? I already told you, go and find your own board, this one's mine.

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Mattyfisk

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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #81 - Jun 20^th, 2019 at 2:42am

freediver wrote on Jun 19^th, 2019 at 6:55pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17^th, 2019 at 12:16am:

freediver wrote on Jun 16^th, 2019 at 11:51pm:

Quote:

I'm saying she lied about living through the war in Somalia to benefit her political career.

What did she say?

that she had fled the war in Somalia to get asylum -when in truth she moved from Kenya:

Quote:

Hirsi Ali had long ago alerted her party to the 'lie' in her 1992 asylum application. She had claimed to come from Somalia (where she lived as a child) because, being a wartorn country, it would qualify her for asylum. She has publicly stated several times she was ashamed of doing so. The truth was that she had lived for 10 years as a refugee in Kenya.

Are you expecting me to dig up the exact quote she gave to Dutch immigration officials?

I am asking you to back up your interpretation of events. So far the actual evidence you have produced shows her harming her political career. Even the quote you presented uses inverted commas on the word lie. What do you think that means?

From what I can gather, she used her grandfather's surname on her asylum application, which she was perfectly entitled to do, and people have used this 'lie' to imply, but not directly say, that she lied about all manner of other things. Once you go looking for the actual lie, it disappears. Muslims and their apologists have been frantically trashing this woman to delegitimise her apostasy and her criticism of Islam. The SPLC for example lied about her spreading hate speech. And Muslims like you look for the worst of the misrepresentations and parrot them without thinking.

Now he's defending Muslims who lie at the airport, despite FD devising a number of questions designed to to trip the Muselman up and keep our country safe from Islam/tintedness.

Do you believe in Freeeedom?

Who is the enemy of decent white people everywhere?

Would an actor who starred in a movie mocking Muhammad be able to travel to any Muslim-majority nation without having a rational reason to fear for their life?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

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freediver

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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #82 - Jun 20^th, 2019 at 1:24pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 20^th, 2019 at 1:15am:

freediver wrote on Jun 19^th, 2019 at 6:55pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17^th, 2019 at 12:16am:

freediver wrote on Jun 16^th, 2019 at 11:51pm:

Quote:

I'm saying she lied about living through the war in Somalia to benefit her political career.

What did she say?

that she had fled the war in Somalia to get asylum -when in truth she moved from Kenya:

Quote:

Hirsi Ali had long ago alerted her party to the 'lie' in her 1992 asylum application. She had claimed to come from Somalia (where she lived as a child) because, being a wartorn country, it would qualify her for asylum. She has publicly stated several times she was ashamed of doing so. The truth was that she had lived for 10 years as a refugee in Kenya.

Are you expecting me to dig up the exact quote she gave to Dutch immigration officials?

I am asking you to back up your interpretation of events. So far the actual evidence you have produced shows her harming her political career. Even the quote you presented uses inverted commas on the word lie. What do you think that means?

From what I can gather, she used her grandfather's surname on her asylum application, which she was perfectly entitled to do, and people have used this 'lie' to imply, but not directly say, that she lied about all manner of other things. Once you go looking for the actual lie, it disappears. Muslims and their apologists have been frantically trashing this woman to delegitimise her apostasy and her criticism of Islam. The SPLC for example lied about her spreading hate speech. And Muslims like you look for the worst of the misrepresentations and parrot them without thinking.

OK FD, we can do it this way if you like:

Are you disputing the claim that she told Dutch immigration officials she fled Somalia - as stated in the sources I quoted?

Or are you disputing the claim that she even was in Kenya right before she sought asylum in Holland - as also stated in the sources I quoted?

If you are persisting with the pedantic 'show me evidence that isn't second hand accounts', then don't bother - I have none. But I'd like to first confirm that you don't actually accept the two claims above as given, accepted knowledge, even though it seems be accepted as such by everyone else, including the journalists I quoted, as well as Hirsi herself.

I have no idea what she actually said Gandalf, because none of the people who accuse her of lying have produced the goods. I smell a rat.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #83 - Jun 20^th, 2019 at 2:05pm

Journalists rarely "produce the goods" when reporting their investigations FD - yet we tend to accept them at their word.

The point surely, is that no one is actually disputing that she lied - least of all Hirsi herself. She has had ample opportunity to do so, but hasn't. You'd think if she really did flee war-torn Somalia as she claimed, instead of a comfortable existence in Kenya, she would want to correct the record. Instead, when confronted with that, and the other lies she simply said (and I quote) “Yeah, I made up the whole thing”. And its also pretty clearly implied that she was referring to the 'fleeing war' lie - as she was reported as contending that she was instead 'fleeing' a forced marriage:

Quote:

The TV programme, broadcast 10 days ago, highlighted the fact that Hirsi Ali had falsified her original asylum application in Holland, saying that she had not come from war-torn Somalia as she claimed, but from Kenya, where she had lived peacefully for 10 years. The fact that she had lied was well-known, retorted Hirsi Ali, making the point that was she was fleeing a forced marriage.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/may/21/jasonburke.theobserver

Are any of Hirsi's advocates actually using the 'fled from Somalia' sob story anymore - as they were as she was kick-starting her political career? I suspect not.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47316 At my desk.	Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam Reply #84 - Jun 20^th, 2019 at 6:29pm Quote: Journalists rarely "produce the goods" when reporting their investigations FD - yet we tend to accept them at their word. Most proper journalists quote people.
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aquascoot

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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #85 - Jun 20^th, 2019 at 6:31pm

Faruk wrote on Jun 20^th, 2019 at 12:19am:

freediver wrote on Jun 19^th, 2019 at 6:55pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17^th, 2019 at 12:16am:

freediver wrote on Jun 16^th, 2019 at 11:51pm:

Quote:

I'm saying she lied about living through the war in Somalia to benefit her political career.

What did she say?

that she had fled the war in Somalia to get asylum -when in truth she moved from Kenya:

Quote:

Hirsi Ali had long ago alerted her party to the 'lie' in her 1992 asylum application. She had claimed to come from Somalia (where she lived as a child) because, being a wartorn country, it would qualify her for asylum. She has publicly stated several times she was ashamed of doing so. The truth was that she had lived for 10 years as a refugee in Kenya.

Are you expecting me to dig up the exact quote she gave to Dutch immigration officials?

I am asking you to back up your interpretation of events. So far the actual evidence you have produced shows her harming her political career. Even the quote you presented uses inverted commas on the word lie. What do you think that means?

From what I can gather, she used her grandfather's surname on her asylum application, which she was perfectly entitled to do, and people have used this 'lie' to imply, but not directly say, that she lied about all manner of other things. Once you go looking for the actual lie, it disappears. Muslims and their apologists have been frantically trashing this woman to delegitimise her apostasy and her criticism of Islam. The SPLC for example lied about her spreading hate speech. And Muslims like you look for the worst of the misrepresentations and parrot them without thinking.

It doesn't take any looking to notice she's a liar. The only other option is that she's extremely slow thinking, uneducated and ignorant. She doesn't seem to be. Yet, every other thing she says about Islam is incorrect.

Nobody cares she left Islam. Its good she did. But the way she tries to get the eternal fame by harming the Muslim world can be expected to bring her harm.

Did I just read correctly that criticiism of Islam can be expected to " bring one harm. "

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #86 - Jun 20^th, 2019 at 7:30pm

freediver wrote on Jun 20^th, 2019 at 6:29pm:

Quote:

Journalists rarely "produce the goods" when reporting their investigations FD - yet we tend to accept them at their word.

Most proper journalists quote people.

As do the journalists I cited.

Do you know of a single person other than you who actually disputes the fact that she lied about where she 'fled' from FD? You do understand that there is no evidence that even Hirsi herself disputes this right?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47316 At my desk.	Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam Reply #87 - Jun 20^th, 2019 at 8:58pm Quote: The fact that she had lied was well-known, retorted Hirsi Ali Not a quote Gandalf. This is how the Muslims and their apologists take her use of her grandfather's surname and invent any lie they want to attribute to her.
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Mattyfisk

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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #88 - Jun 20^th, 2019 at 9:06pm

freediver wrote on Jun 20^th, 2019 at 1:24pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 20^th, 2019 at 1:15am:

freediver wrote on Jun 19^th, 2019 at 6:55pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17^th, 2019 at 12:16am:

freediver wrote on Jun 16^th, 2019 at 11:51pm:

Quote:

I'm saying she lied about living through the war in Somalia to benefit her political career.

What did she say?

that she had fled the war in Somalia to get asylum -when in truth she moved from Kenya:

Quote:

Hirsi Ali had long ago alerted her party to the 'lie' in her 1992 asylum application. She had claimed to come from Somalia (where she lived as a child) because, being a wartorn country, it would qualify her for asylum. She has publicly stated several times she was ashamed of doing so. The truth was that she had lived for 10 years as a refugee in Kenya.

Are you expecting me to dig up the exact quote she gave to Dutch immigration officials?

I am asking you to back up your interpretation of events. So far the actual evidence you have produced shows her harming her political career. Even the quote you presented uses inverted commas on the word lie. What do you think that means?

From what I can gather, she used her grandfather's surname on her asylum application, which she was perfectly entitled to do, and people have used this 'lie' to imply, but not directly say, that she lied about all manner of other things. Once you go looking for the actual lie, it disappears. Muslims and their apologists have been frantically trashing this woman to delegitimise her apostasy and her criticism of Islam. The SPLC for example lied about her spreading hate speech. And Muslims like you look for the worst of the misrepresentations and parrot them without thinking.

OK FD, we can do it this way if you like:

Are you disputing the claim that she told Dutch immigration officials she fled Somalia - as stated in the sources I quoted?

Or are you disputing the claim that she even was in Kenya right before she sought asylum in Holland - as also stated in the sources I quoted?

If you are persisting with the pedantic 'show me evidence that isn't second hand accounts', then don't bother - I have none. But I'd like to first confirm that you don't actually accept the two claims above as given, accepted knowledge, even though it seems be accepted as such by everyone else, including the journalists I quoted, as well as Hirsi herself.

I have no idea what she actually said Gandalf, because none of the people who accuse her of lying have produced the goods. I smell a rat.

What do you think should happen to someone who practices taqiyya on their visa application, FD?

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #89 - Jun 20^th, 2019 at 10:31pm

freediver wrote on Jun 20^th, 2019 at 8:58pm:

Quote:

The fact that she had lied was well-known, retorted Hirsi Ali

Not a quote Gandalf. This is how the Muslims and their apologists take her use of her grandfather's surname and invent any lie they want to attribute to her.

And this is the ridiculous lengths people go to apologise for liars - just because they are criticising Islam.

Or do you actually dismiss every news article that doesn't provide direct quotes of named sources? I certainly hope you do.

Do you think the journalist who reported this is lying to cover for Islam?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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