Australian Politics Forum - Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam

Mattyfisk

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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #60 - Jun 17^th, 2019 at 2:51pm

aquascoot wrote on Jun 17^th, 2019 at 1:05pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on Jun 17^th, 2019 at 12:55pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17^th, 2019 at 11:33am:

mothra wrote on Jun 17^th, 2019 at 9:19am:

You like her because she denounces Islam. Were she beating the drum for feminism, you would call her addicted to emotional responses.

So true mothra. Aqua is all over the shot on this one with a clearly irrational apologia for a hate monger who cynically uses blatant lies to further her political career.

Interesting how they change, isn't it?

They start out as free-traders opposing government regulation. They come to fixate on "the left". They join the bigots and reactionaries in attacking the so-called progressives.

Before long, they've become "patriots", promoting tyranny and opposing any form of freedom whatsoever, with one small exception:

The freedom to attack the tinted.

We've seen it all over the years here. We've watched sane, tolerant people morph into rabid racists until finally, they scoff at the notion of racism itself.

Racism: so passé.

Aquascoot is now going through this process. Personally, I don't think he's racist at all, but as he blends in with the bigots he is exposed to their porkies, porkies that, as we know all too well, are used in the war against the tinted.

There's no bigger zealot than a convert, and no one is more comfortable spreading lies. The newcomers have been through the process of conversion, the staged brainwashing of the cult. No one feels more than the convert the imperative of bringing souls to the cause, whatever it takes.

There's your Muselman, for a start. Their suicide bombers are usually young, dumb and full of cum converts. It's the same with your "patriot" bomber or shooter.

Having seen it here, we know how easy it is to be brainwashed. Aquascoot is going through the process himself, first through Trump, and now through the anti-Islam/tinted campaign. This is why hate-speech needs to be addressed, and it all comes back to race.

You'll never shift the entrenched white supremacist through reason. How much luck have you had with FD?

But you can stop people being converted by addressing the lies at the outset.

dude , i am no trump lover.
i think he's pure entertainment .
and lets face it the economy is doing fine and unemployment is fine and the sky is not falling.

but i do think there is a need to have an open and frank discussion about the ideology of islam.

and that cant be had at the moment.

you raise it in any context and you are branded an islamophobe and the debate is shut down.
thats unhealthy and you know it.

the prayers, the fasting, the getting together, the hospitality, the code of conduct of islam is all fine.
but we have to be able to discuss the bits that arent fine and thats never going to happen if one side labels any criticism as hate .

That's true, Aquascoot, and I completely agree. But there are plenty of people who criticise Islam solely out of hate.

You know them, this board's full of them. They use Islam as a Trojan horse. Their real plan is to ban and kill the tinted races in the fullness of time.

Some will admit it, some won't. Some pretend they're not racist - you know; they slept with one once, they had a Boong at their school, they live next door to a Paki. But they run when you call this into question.

FD runs a mile from any sort of question at all, but the question he's run furthest from is whether he likes to tell porkies. He can't handle that one at all.

You?

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« Last Edit: Jun 17^th, 2019 at 4:19pm by Mattyfisk »

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aquascoot

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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #61 - Jun 17^th, 2019 at 3:08pm

Well some good posts there gandalf and karnal.

To my own eye, we have made enormous progress on women's rights, racial equality and gay rights.
A black president, a black middle class, female prime ministers all over the place. Every family has a gay member. No ones in the closet.

So the left should probably say thanks for being so cool, we have come a long way, you white males are awesome .

But Islam hasn't really been touched.
I really don't get it.
Like Christianity, we can keep the good stuff (the beatitudes) and jettison a lot of it.

But from my understanding, you can't even buy a Koran that isn't in Arabic.
And it's the Muslims themselves that need to come out and say " we have some good things, but we know a lot of it needs to be jettisoned"

I have never heard anyone say that,
1 billion people and no one says that.
They obviously think it, but why won't they say that.
Thoughts ?

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John Smith

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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #62 - Jun 17^th, 2019 at 4:47pm

Ohh my gosh ... a common sense, reasonably well presented argument by horse boy without going into one of his long winded rants .... I never thought I'd see the day

aquascoot wrote on Jun 17^th, 2019 at 3:08pm:

But Islam hasn't really been touched.

I disagree. The fact that there are millions of Muslims with no desire to kill the infidel, many with a willingness to share our traditions and customs, says otherwise.

That's not to say that there still isn't a lot of work to be done.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Mattyfisk

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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #63 - Jun 17^th, 2019 at 5:22pm

aquascoot wrote on Jun 17^th, 2019 at 3:08pm:

Well some good posts there gandalf and karnal.

To my own eye, we have made enormous progress on women's rights, racial equality and gay rights.
A black president, a black middle class, female prime ministers all over the place. Every family has a gay member. No ones in the closet.

So the left should probably say thanks for being so cool, we have come a long way, you white males are awesome .

But Islam hasn't really been touched.
I really don't get it.
Like Christianity, we can keep the good stuff (the beatitudes) and jettison a lot of it.

But from my understanding, you can't even buy a Koran that isn't in Arabic.
And it's the Muslims themselves that need to come out and say " we have some good things, but we know a lot of it needs to be jettisoned"

I have never heard anyone say that,
1 billion people and no one says that.
They obviously think it, but why won't they say that.
Thoughts ?

It sounds to me like you want "the left" to say: Whitey, you're really awesome, and: Muselman, you're a jolly rotter.

You people are so terrible you won't even write the Quran in English.

Pathetic.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #64 - Jun 17^th, 2019 at 5:28pm

aquascoot wrote on Jun 17^th, 2019 at 3:08pm:

Well some good posts there gandalf and karnal.

To my own eye, we have made enormous progress on women's rights, racial equality and gay rights.
A black president, a black middle class, female prime ministers all over the place. Every family has a gay member. No ones in the closet.

So the left should probably say thanks for being so cool, we have come a long way, you white males are awesome .

But Islam hasn't really been touched.
I really don't get it.
Like Christianity, we can keep the good stuff (the beatitudes) and jettison a lot of it.

But from my understanding, you can't even buy a Koran that isn't in Arabic.
And it's the Muslims themselves that need to come out and say " we have some good things, but we know a lot of it needs to be jettisoned"

I have never heard anyone say that,
1 billion people and no one says that.
They obviously think it, but why won't they say that.
Thoughts ?

Aqua I actually agree in the sense that criticising Islam is too often not considered PC. Believe it or not, I'd actually like to see Islamic doctrine put more into the spotlight in the context of our societal values. And from the perspective of muslims, doing so shouldn't be considered "anti-Islam". We should welcome it. Frustratingly though, its very often the well-intentioned non-muslim progressives who shut down debate. This allows the problems in Islam to fester, and resentment in society to grow.

Thats one side of the coin. But there is another side - which we all need to acknowledge too.

The other side is that much criticism of Islam is drawn from genuine bigotry, and (dare I say it), genuine racism. K alluded to such sentiments present on this very forum. People who have no interest whatsoever in understanding Islam and working through the issues with decent, moderate muslims. The line between legitimate criticism of the religion of Islam and hate-speech and incitement against muslim people is extremely fine, but too often it is dismissed. This is disingenuous IMO.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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aquascoot

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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #65 - Jun 17^th, 2019 at 6:15pm

Mattyfisk wrote on Jun 17^th, 2019 at 5:22pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 17^th, 2019 at 3:08pm:

Well some good posts there gandalf and karnal.

To my own eye, we have made enormous progress on women's rights, racial equality and gay rights.
A black president, a black middle class, female prime ministers all over the place. Every family has a gay member. No ones in the closet.

So the left should probably say thanks for being so cool, we have come a long way, you white males are awesome .

But Islam hasn't really been touched.
I really don't get it.
Like Christianity, we can keep the good stuff (the beatitudes) and jettison a lot of it.

But from my understanding, you can't even buy a Koran that isn't in Arabic.
And it's the Muslims themselves that need to come out and say " we have some good things, but we know a lot of it needs to be jettisoned"

I have never heard anyone say that,
1 billion people and no one says that.
They obviously think it, but why won't they say that.
Thoughts ?

It sounds to me like you want "the left" to say: Whitey, you're really awesome, and: Muselman, you're a jolly rotter.

You people are so terrible you won't even write the Quran in English.

Pathetic.

Still manning the barricades , long after the battle was won.
Someone who won't take Yes for an answer Cheesy

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aquascoot

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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #66 - Jun 17^th, 2019 at 6:28pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17^th, 2019 at 5:28pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 17^th, 2019 at 3:08pm:

Well some good posts there gandalf and karnal.

To my own eye, we have made enormous progress on women's rights, racial equality and gay rights.
A black president, a black middle class, female prime ministers all over the place. Every family has a gay member. No ones in the closet.

So the left should probably say thanks for being so cool, we have come a long way, you white males are awesome .

But Islam hasn't really been touched.
I really don't get it.
Like Christianity, we can keep the good stuff (the beatitudes) and jettison a lot of it.

But from my understanding, you can't even buy a Koran that isn't in Arabic.
And it's the Muslims themselves that need to come out and say " we have some good things, but we know a lot of it needs to be jettisoned"

I have never heard anyone say that,
1 billion people and no one says that.
They obviously think it, but why won't they say that.
Thoughts ?

Aqua I actually agree in the sense that criticising Islam is too often not considered PC. Believe it or not, I'd actually like to see Islamic doctrine put more into the spotlight in the context of our societal values. And from the perspective of muslims, doing so shouldn't be considered "anti-Islam". We should welcome it. Frustratingly though, its very often the well-intentioned non-muslim progressives who shut down debate. This allows the problems in Islam to fester, and resentment in society to grow.

Thats one side of the coin. But there is another side - which we all need to acknowledge too.

The other side is that much criticism of Islam is drawn from genuine bigotry, and (dare I say it), genuine racism. K alluded to such sentiments present on this very forum. People who have no interest whatsoever in understanding Islam and working through the issues with decent, moderate muslims. The line between legitimate criticism of the religion of Islam and hate-speech and incitement against muslim people is extremely fine, but too often it is dismissed. This is disingenuous IMO.

Nice gandalf.

I was raised Christian and I like some parts of the New Testament but I'm calling a lot of the Old Testament total rubbish.
I can say that to Christians and they are ok with that.

I would imagine most Muslims are similarly cherry picking.

I do believe we need to be able to discuss bad ideas.
I don't think people are bad.
I think a Christian who tries to kill an abortion clinic doctor is doing this out of love for unborn children .
I don't think he is a psychopath who would be killing people regardless.

And I think a member of ISIS who tosses a gay dude off a building is doing it because he honestly believes the guy will benefit from the application of infallible doctrine.
I saw a clip of an ISIS guy and he had genuine tears as he did it.
Again, I don't think this guy would be doing this without the bad ideas in the Koran.

I think we have moved on from the bible nd the Koran but they MUST contain one wisdom, or they would not have inspired billions of people.

So the time has come for a full and frank discussion about what stays in and what is to be ignored.

Now THAT is a MASSIVE challenge.

But I would still rather people were secular Christians or secular Muslims or secular Buddhists.

You need a set of core principles.

Or lose you become nihilistic lost and resentful.

I could convert to Islam if they would let me cherry pick the bits I liked.
Not a problem
Would they let me do that?

I am not so sure

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Frank

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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #67 - Jun 17^th, 2019 at 8:25pm

Mattyfisk wrote on Jun 17^th, 2019 at 12:55pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17^th, 2019 at 11:33am:

mothra wrote on Jun 17^th, 2019 at 9:19am:

You like her because she denounces Islam. Were she beating the drum for feminism, you would call her addicted to emotional responses.

So true mothra. Aqua is all over the shot on this one with a clearly irrational apologia for a hate monger who cynically uses blatant lies to further her political career.

Interesting how they change, isn't it?

They start out as free-traders opposing government regulation. They come to fixate on "the left". They join the bigots and reactionaries in attacking the so-called progressives.

Before long, they've become "patriots", promoting tyranny and opposing any form of freedom whatsoever, with one small exception:

The freedom to attack the tinted.

We've seen it all over the years here. We've watched sane, tolerant people morph into rabid racists until finally, they scoff at the notion of racism itself.

Racism: so passé.

Aquascoot is now going through this process. Personally, I don't think he's racist at all, but as he blends in with the bigots he is exposed to their porkies, porkies that, as we know all too well, are used in the war against the tinted.

There's no bigger zealot than a convert, and no one is more comfortable spreading lies. The newcomers have been through the process of conversion, the staged brainwashing of the cult. No one feels more than the convert the imperative of bringing souls to the cause, whatever it takes.

There's your Muselman, for a start. Their suicide bombers are usually young, dumb and full of cum converts. It's the same with your "patriot" bomber or shooter.

Having seen it here, we know how easy it is to be brainwashed. Aquascoot is going through the process himself, first through Trump, and now through the anti-Islam/tinted campaign. This is why hate-speech needs to be addressed, and it all comes back to race.

You'll never shift the entrenched white supremacist through reason. How much luck have you had with FD?

But you can stop people being converted by addressing the lies at the outset.

Western - white - civilisation is objectively better than all the others.

It may pain all the others, and if they stayed in their own countries they would have credibility- but all the 'just as good if not better' tinted people are busting to go to WHITE countries they so roundly despise.

Tinted people do not know how to digest the inferiority of their various cultures.

Aborigines are eaten by resentment. All natives are. All colonised, tinted people are.

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Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 40485 Gender:	Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam Reply #68 - Jun 17^th, 2019 at 8:32pm polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17^th, 2019 at 11:28am: Hirsi tacitly promoting violence against muslims Muslims actually KILL people. For Mohammed. For Islam. Nothing tacit (interpretation) in that. The more you defend jihad the more despicable you become.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #69 - Jun 17^th, 2019 at 10:36pm

Frank wrote on Jun 17^th, 2019 at 8:32pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17^th, 2019 at 11:28am:

Hirsi tacitly promoting violence against muslims

Muslims actually KILL people. For Mohammed. For Islam. Nothing tacit (interpretation) in that.

The more you defend jihad the more despicable you become.

Frank, I find your ideas and intolerance not just dispicable, but outright dangerous.

And we saw in Christchurch where your ideas and intolerance leads to. You and Tarrant are basically cut from the same cloth.

And yet I can call you out and criticise your ideas without advocating violence against you - tacit or otherwise.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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aquascoot

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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #70 - Jun 18^th, 2019 at 5:25am

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17^th, 2019 at 10:36pm:

Frank wrote on Jun 17^th, 2019 at 8:32pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17^th, 2019 at 11:28am:

Hirsi tacitly promoting violence against muslims

Muslims actually KILL people. For Mohammed. For Islam. Nothing tacit (interpretation) in that.

The more you defend jihad the more despicable you become.

Frank, I find your ideas and intolerance not just dispicable, but outright dangerous.

And we saw in Christchurch where your ideas and intolerance leads to. You and Tarrant are basically cut from the same cloth.

And yet I can call you out and criticise your ideas without advocating violence against you - tacit or otherwise.

thats fine gandalph.

i am happy to say deuteronomy and leviticus are part of the satanic verses.
i doubt pope francis will declare a fatwah on me.

now it behoves a billion muslims to get behind rushdie and say that there are satanic verses in the koran.

if they did that, problem solved.

then we can all move forward on common ground

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Frank

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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #71 - Jun 19^th, 2019 at 11:30am

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17^th, 2019 at 10:36pm:

Frank wrote on Jun 17^th, 2019 at 8:32pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17^th, 2019 at 11:28am:

Hirsi tacitly promoting violence against muslims

Muslims actually KILL people. For Mohammed. For Islam. Nothing tacit (interpretation) in that.

The more you defend jihad the more despicable you become.

Frank, I find your ideas and intolerance not just dispicable, but outright dangerous.

And we saw in Christchurch where your ideas and intolerance leads to. You and Tarrant are basically cut from the same cloth.

And yet I can call you out and criticise your ideas without advocating violence against you - tacit or otherwise.

You expect me to tolerate jihad??? Muslims kill for Allah and Islam every day. Am I know dangerous for noticing murderous jihad as well as stealth jihad?

You should put your efforts into stopping Muslim violence, oppression, terrorism.

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Frank

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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #72 - Jun 19^th, 2019 at 11:33am

aquascoot wrote on Jun 18^th, 2019 at 5:25am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17^th, 2019 at 10:36pm:

Frank wrote on Jun 17^th, 2019 at 8:32pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17^th, 2019 at 11:28am:

Hirsi tacitly promoting violence against muslims

Muslims actually KILL people. For Mohammed. For Islam. Nothing tacit (interpretation) in that.

The more you defend jihad the more despicable you become.

Frank, I find your ideas and intolerance not just dispicable, but outright dangerous.

And we saw in Christchurch where your ideas and intolerance leads to. You and Tarrant are basically cut from the same cloth.

And yet I can call you out and criticise your ideas without advocating violence against you - tacit or otherwise.

thats fine gandalph.

i am happy to say deuteronomy and leviticus are part of the satanic verses.
i doubt pope francis will declare a fatwah on me.

now it behoves a billion muslims to get behind rushdie and say that there are satanic verses in the koran.

if they did that, problem solved.

then we can all move forward on common ground

Not going to happen, there is no common ground.
Islam will always want to dominate.

There is no concession or compromise on the unalterable final word of Allah. Liberal democracy and secularism are based on unfolding customs and compromise. No room for any of that in Islam.

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Mattyfisk

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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #73 - Jun 19^th, 2019 at 1:36pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17^th, 2019 at 10:36pm:

Frank wrote on Jun 17^th, 2019 at 8:32pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 17^th, 2019 at 11:28am:

Hirsi tacitly promoting violence against muslims

Muslims actually KILL people. For Mohammed. For Islam. Nothing tacit (interpretation) in that.

The more you defend jihad the more despicable you become.

Frank, I find your ideas and intolerance not just dispicable, but outright dangerous.

And we saw in Christchurch where your ideas and intolerance leads to. You and Tarrant are basically cut from the same cloth. .

Not that there's anything wrong with that, G.

Rich tapestry, innit.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslim woman scholar and politician explains Islam
Reply #74 - Jun 19^th, 2019 at 2:32pm

Frank wrote on Jun 19^th, 2019 at 11:30am:

You expect me to tolerate jihad???

No, I expect you to know who you're actual enemy is, which is not me.

I should expect you to discontinue blaming and mocking me for the things I condemn and denounce on a daily basis. I should expect you to not keep unsubtly implying, day in day out, that I am literally one of the terrorists.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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