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Pell's Appeal - Live Stream (Read 4190 times)
Redmond Neck
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Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Jun 5th, 2019 at 10:22am
 
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #1 - Jun 5th, 2019 at 10:39am
 
WELL!  This might stir some response from a dead audience here today... don't tell me they're all working or something...
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #2 - Jun 5th, 2019 at 12:13pm
 
Bump
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #3 - Jun 5th, 2019 at 1:47pm
 
Hearing resumes at 2pm
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #4 - Jun 5th, 2019 at 3:29pm
 
Redmond Neck wrote on Jun 5th, 2019 at 1:47pm:
Hearing resumes at 2pm


Far kit......can't get that link to load.
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #5 - Jun 5th, 2019 at 3:33pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jun 5th, 2019 at 3:29pm:
Redmond Neck wrote on Jun 5th, 2019 at 1:47pm:
Hearing resumes at 2pm


Far kit......can't get that link to load.


What's it doing?

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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #6 - Jun 5th, 2019 at 3:34pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 5th, 2019 at 3:33pm:
Aussie wrote on Jun 5th, 2019 at 3:29pm:
Redmond Neck wrote on Jun 5th, 2019 at 1:47pm:
Hearing resumes at 2pm


Far kit......can't get that link to load.


What's it doing?



Never loads.
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #7 - Jun 5th, 2019 at 3:35pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jun 5th, 2019 at 3:34pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 5th, 2019 at 3:33pm:
Aussie wrote on Jun 5th, 2019 at 3:29pm:
Redmond Neck wrote on Jun 5th, 2019 at 1:47pm:
Hearing resumes at 2pm


Far kit......can't get that link to load.


What's it doing?



Never loads.


The page loads, but the video won't work?

Or not even the page loads?
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #8 - Jun 5th, 2019 at 3:40pm
 
The page will not load.
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #9 - Jun 5th, 2019 at 3:42pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jun 5th, 2019 at 3:40pm:
The page will not load.


Strange.

Hit CTRL + F5      Undecided
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #10 - Jun 5th, 2019 at 3:53pm
 
the lady judge looks bored witless... Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #11 - Jun 5th, 2019 at 4:23pm
 
cods wrote on Jun 5th, 2019 at 3:53pm:
the lady judge looks bored witless... Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Of course Cods would be bright as a button if she had to listen to all the argument since 10am this morning!

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Adjourned until tomorrow morning ---

9:30am?
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #12 - Jun 5th, 2019 at 4:29pm
 
Your thoughts so far?

I find it fascinating listening to all the arguments they certainly are very intelligent people!

Did you see all the folders of info each of the judges had that were referred to regularly , must have taken a dozen experienced lawyers to put all that together .

The Rock Choppers are putting all their cash into this is my opinion.
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #13 - Jun 5th, 2019 at 4:44pm
 
Well, it seems on the face of the closing arguments today that there was indeed a failure to follow correct procedure in terms of the jury panel not being present during the accused plea!

How could such a failure have happened?

This technicality may well see the entire trial thrown out and yet another retrial take place.  Roll Eyes

The mind boggles.  Shocked
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #14 - Jun 5th, 2019 at 4:49pm
 
Captain Nemo wrote on Jun 5th, 2019 at 4:44pm:
Well, it seems on the face of the closing arguments today that there was indeed a failure to follow correct procedure in terms of the jury panel not being present during the accused plea!

How could such a failure have happened?

This technicality may well see the entire trial thrown out and yet another retrial take place.  Roll Eyes

The mind boggles.  Shocked


That was the one argument I was interested in but I could not get that link Mr Neck provided (he can be useful sometimes) to load.  Can you give me an outline of what that is all about and the suggested significance of it?
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #15 - Jun 5th, 2019 at 4:57pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jun 5th, 2019 at 4:49pm:
Captain Nemo wrote on Jun 5th, 2019 at 4:44pm:
Well, it seems on the face of the closing arguments today that there was indeed a failure to follow correct procedure in terms of the jury panel not being present during the accused plea!

How could such a failure have happened?

This technicality may well see the entire trial thrown out and yet another retrial take place.  Roll Eyes

The mind boggles.  Shocked


That was the one argument I was interested in but I could not get that link Mr Neck provided (he can be useful sometimes) to load.  Can you give me an outline of what that is all about and the suggested significance of it?


I think you had to do a refresh of the link unless you encountered lunch or morning tea break

F5 usually refreshes it.

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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #16 - Jun 5th, 2019 at 4:59pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jun 5th, 2019 at 4:49pm:
Captain Nemo wrote on Jun 5th, 2019 at 4:44pm:
Well, it seems on the face of the closing arguments today that there was indeed a failure to follow correct procedure in terms of the jury panel not being present during the accused plea!

How could such a failure have happened?

This technicality may well see the entire trial thrown out and yet another retrial take place.  Roll Eyes

The mind boggles.  Shocked


That was the one argument I was interested in but I could not get that link Mr Neck provided (he can be useful sometimes) to load.  Can you give me an outline of what that is all about and the suggested significance of it?


The argument was given, quoting the relevant sections of the legal statutes - that members of the jury panel, though not all - are required to be present during the plea statement of guilty or not guilty by the accused. It seems that the court clerks and judge failed to follow this technicality in the Pell trial. Hence, they argue, the entire trial was invalid.  Shocked

I think they have a point.

I'm also wondering if this is true, that there may be a "can of worms" opened up in cases where an accused is seen/heard via a video link?

The letter of the law could perhaps be interpreted to say that only the physical presence of the accused in front of at least some of the jury panel in making their plea is in fact required for a trial to proceed.


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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #17 - Jun 5th, 2019 at 5:03pm
 
Captain Nemo wrote on Jun 5th, 2019 at 4:59pm:
Aussie wrote on Jun 5th, 2019 at 4:49pm:
Captain Nemo wrote on Jun 5th, 2019 at 4:44pm:
Well, it seems on the face of the closing arguments today that there was indeed a failure to follow correct procedure in terms of the jury panel not being present during the accused plea!

How could such a failure have happened?

This technicality may well see the entire trial thrown out and yet another retrial take place.  Roll Eyes

The mind boggles.  Shocked


That was the one argument I was interested in but I could not get that link Mr Neck provided (he can be useful sometimes) to load.  Can you give me an outline of what that is all about and the suggested significance of it?


The argument was given, quoting the relevant sections of the legal statutes - that members of the jury panel, though not all - are required to be present during the plea statement of guilty or not guilty by the accused. It seems that the court clerks and judge failed to follow this technicality in the Pell trial. Hence, they argue, the entire trial was invalid.  Shocked

I think they have a point.

I'm also wondering if this is true, that there may be a "can of worms" opened up in cases where an accused is seen/heard via a video link?

The letter of the law could perhaps be interpreted to say that only the physical presence of the accused in front of at least some of the jury panel in making their plea is in fact required for a trial to proceed.




What intrigues me is how or if it was argued that defect meant Pell did not get a fair trial.  Can you say?
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #18 - Jun 5th, 2019 at 5:09pm
 
Not so much failed to get a fair trial, but rather that the trial can be argued to have never come to a conclusion, as it never technically started.  Shocked
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #19 - Jun 5th, 2019 at 5:21pm
 
Captain Nemo wrote on Jun 5th, 2019 at 5:09pm:
Not so much failed to get a fair trial, but rather that the trial can be argued to have never come to a conclusion, as it never technically started.  Shocked


A nullity from the start (ab initio)........hmmm........Neat point but I am doubtful the Appeal Court is going to hang their hat on that peg.  Much will depend on how fatal that technical flaw is seen as.  For example and a simplification....let's pretend it was discovered after the convictions that the Trial Judge was never a properly admitted as a Lawyer and thus could never have been a Judge.  That sort of thing would be fatal.  This one seems at the other end of the scale.

Oh well...let's see.
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #20 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 9:23am
 
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #21 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 9:25am
 
Redmond Neck wrote on Jun 5th, 2019 at 4:57pm:
Aussie wrote on Jun 5th, 2019 at 4:49pm:
Captain Nemo wrote on Jun 5th, 2019 at 4:44pm:
Well, it seems on the face of the closing arguments today that there was indeed a failure to follow correct procedure in terms of the jury panel not being present during the accused plea!

How could such a failure have happened?

This technicality may well see the entire trial thrown out and yet another retrial take place.  Roll Eyes

The mind boggles.  Shocked


That was the one argument I was interested in but I could not get that link Mr Neck provided (he can be useful sometimes) to load.  Can you give me an outline of what that is all about and the suggested significance of it?


I think you had to do a refresh of the link unless you encountered lunch or morning tea break

F5 usually refreshes it.




CTRL + F5 does a better job.

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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #22 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 9:52am
 
Redmond Neck wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 9:23am:


I still can't get that bastard....but I found another site which has it.  Crown is struggling.
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #23 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 10:29am
 
Aussie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 9:52am:
Redmond Neck wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 9:23am:


I still can't get that bastard....but I found another site which has it.  Crown is struggling.


He sounds like a Mumbler Stumbler to me.
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #24 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 12:12pm
 
Redmond Neck wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 10:29am:
Aussie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 9:52am:
Redmond Neck wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 9:23am:


I still can't get that bastard....but I found another site which has it.  Crown is struggling.


He sounds like a Mumbler Stumbler to me.


Well, if you have ever been in his shoes, you'd know.  When you get asked questions by a Judge, let alone three in relay, you need time to frame the response in your head...which this bloke covers with mumbles.  I just shut up until I could respond.
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #25 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 12:39pm
 
' In 1621, the Spaniard Father Jose de Calasanz established the Piarist Order to house and educate the poor children of Rome.  These schools flourished despite war, earthquakes and plague and quickly became established throughout Catholic Europe, eventually educating thousands of children.  Yet in 1646, Calasanz's order was abruptly abolished by the pope, amid rumours of a great scandal.

Karen Liebreich used highly restricted archive material to investigate the reasons for the order's closure.  Her book reveals for the first time the sexual abuse of children practised by some of the leading priests in the order and how Jose de Calasanz, later honoured as the patron saint of Catholic schools, knew of the scandal and tried to cover it up.  Fallen Order also shows how Pope Innocent X put a man known to be one of the most prolific abusers in charge of an order dedicated to the education of children.

Although the order was suppressed when the scandal eventually became public, it was later revived and is still in existence today, its turbulent past ignored.  This original and important book is an explosive account of an episode in history that the Catholic Church has failed to acknowledge in modern times.  It also shines a bright light on the controversies besetting the contemporary priesthood'


Fallen Order A History
Karen Liebreich
Atlantic Books

(c) 2004

ISBN: 1 84354 163 7
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #26 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 2:28pm
 
Back On 2:15pm
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #27 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 3:40pm
 
Walker is on again, this guy is very confident and easy to understand!
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #28 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 4:09pm
 
Redmond Neck wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 3:40pm:
Walker is on again, this guy is very confident and easy to understand!


Yes....and he just boldly sorted the Judge on the left on the calling a witness matter.
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #29 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 4:20pm
 
What are the odds?

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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #30 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 4:29pm
 
how long is this set for red?...are they given so many days or week to present their case?
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #31 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 4:32pm
 
Redmond Neck wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 4:20pm:
What are the odds?



The bloke on the left was addressing the ultimate question which is basically what role does an Appeal Court have when the question is put to it that the verdict of the Jury is under attack as being perverse.  I would have answered that this way.

"It is long established that a Jury verdict can properly be appealed as this one is on the basis that the evidence does not support a finding of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.  And yes, that does place this Court in the position of having to review all the evidence as we have done and then consider that question.  Your responsibility as an appeal court cannot be absolved by simply saying that it is the job of the Jury to arrive at conclusions of fact and it is all over door shut......because the High Court has given you the duty of looking at that verdict and then testing it against the weight of each bit of evidence and the entirety of it."
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #32 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 4:34pm
 
cods wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 4:29pm:
how long is this set for red?...are they given so many days or week to present their case?



I am not sure cods,

I assumed today was the end of their submissions and the Judges would then retire to consider the submissions of both sides which may take some time!

Weeks or months that is!

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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #33 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 4:38pm
 
The odds....well I admit my bias.  I have always maintained that the verdict is not sustainable.  I suspect the Appeal Court will agree but nothing is ever a given.
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #34 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 4:49pm
 
Redmond Neck wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 4:34pm:
cods wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 4:29pm:
how long is this set for red?...are they given so many days or week to present their case?



I am not sure cods,

I assumed today was the end of their submissions and the Judges would then retire to consider the submissions of both sides which may take some time!

Weeks or months that is!



The Appeal is finished.  Over two days.  Decision reserved.  Who knows how long.  That is 100% up to the three Judges who heard the Appeal.
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #35 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 5:11pm
 
Its not on Sportsbet yet, i thought this stage of the proceedings was going to go on for months. I tuned in for ten minutes today, it was nine minutes of umms and ahhs.

He will probably get off.
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #36 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 5:20pm
 
Johnnie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 5:11pm:
Its not on Sportsbet yet, i thought this stage of the proceedings was going to go on for months. I tuned in for ten minutes today, it was nine minutes of umms and ahhs.

He will probably get off.


So, you believe he's innocent?

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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #37 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 5:41pm
 
Johnnie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 5:11pm:
Its not on Sportsbet yet, i thought this stage of the proceedings was going to go on for months. I tuned in for ten minutes today, it was nine minutes of umms and ahhs.

He will probably get off.


That was the bloke representing the Crown.  He struggles on his feet, but is obviously great on his written submissions else he would not be there.
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #38 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 5:51pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 5:20pm:
Johnnie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 5:11pm:
Its not on Sportsbet yet, i thought this stage of the proceedings was going to go on for months. I tuned in for ten minutes today, it was nine minutes of umms and ahhs.

He will probably get off.


So, you believe he's innocent?


I was indecisive on this one at first but now i am not so sure, how could all the jurors get it wrong, the bit i saw Pells defense was trying to argue just that point and he seemed to have validity, but they are good like that.
How could he be in two places at the same time they argued.
I dunno, what about you?

I wouldn't like to be the hangman on this one.
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #39 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 6:01pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 5:41pm:
Johnnie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 5:11pm:
Its not on Sportsbet yet, i thought this stage of the proceedings was going to go on for months. I tuned in for ten minutes today, it was nine minutes of umms and ahhs.

He will probably get off.


That was the bloke representing the Crown.  He struggles on his feet, but is obviously great on his written submissions else he would not be there.

Yes exactly, they work as a team.

Its time to "consider your verdict",, i want a transcript.
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« Last Edit: Jun 6th, 2019 at 6:06pm by Johnnie »  
 
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #40 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 6:19pm
 
Johnnie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 6:01pm:
Aussie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 5:41pm:
Johnnie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 5:11pm:
Its not on Sportsbet yet, i thought this stage of the proceedings was going to go on for months. I tuned in for ten minutes today, it was nine minutes of umms and ahhs.

He will probably get off.


That was the bloke representing the Crown.  He struggles on his feet, but is obviously great on his written submissions else he would not be there.

Yes exactly, they work as a team.

Its time to "consider your verdict",, i want a transcript.


I am sure you can get one...but it will cost.

If this goes against Pell, it will head to the High Court for greater definition of the role of an Appeal Court in the State of Victoria.
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #41 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 6:37pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 5:20pm:
Johnnie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 5:11pm:
Its not on Sportsbet yet, i thought this stage of the proceedings was going to go on for months. I tuned in for ten minutes today, it was nine minutes of umms and ahhs.

He will probably get off.


So, you believe he's innocent?



Based on the "hearsay" evidence they would have to give a NOT GUILTY verdict.

If this hearsay evidence was able to enact court proceedings then why isn't there a trial for Bill Shortens "rape case" ?

BTW - im not saying he's either Guilty or Not Guilty.
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #42 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 6:48pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 6:19pm:
Johnnie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 6:01pm:
Aussie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 5:41pm:
Johnnie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 5:11pm:
Its not on Sportsbet yet, i thought this stage of the proceedings was going to go on for months. I tuned in for ten minutes today, it was nine minutes of umms and ahhs.

He will probably get off.


That was the bloke representing the Crown.  He struggles on his feet, but is obviously great on his written submissions else he would not be there.

Yes exactly, they work as a team.

Its time to "consider your verdict",, i want a transcript.


I am sure you can get one...but it will cost.

If this goes against Pell, it will head to the High Court for greater definition of the role of an Appeal Court in the State of Victoria.

I would have thought the definition of an appeals court  was clear in its title, why would it will head to the High Court for greater definition of the role of an Appeal Court, would that help Pell and others in jail?
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #43 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:09pm
 
I am just picking up on a line of questions put by one of the Judges (the guy on the left) who was pushing the Crown's Counsel Boyce on the extent to which the Appeal Court ought to oversee or effect or impact upon a decision by a Jury.  It is a nuanced legal poser.
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #44 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:13pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:09pm:
I am just picking up on a line of questions put by one of the Judges (the guy on the left) who was pushing the Crown's Counsel Boyce on the extent to which the Appeal Court ought to oversee or effect or impact upon a decision by a Jury.  It is a nuanced legal poser.



Hi Aussie,
do you reckon Pell will be back at the lovely
Vatican palace in a few months with a nice
drink of whisky in one hand & a fine Cuban cigar in the other -
having a good chuckle?   Smiley
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #45 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:19pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:13pm:
Aussie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:09pm:
I am just picking up on a line of questions put by one of the Judges (the guy on the left) who was pushing the Crown's Counsel Boyce on the extent to which the Appeal Court ought to oversee or effect or impact upon a decision by a Jury.  It is a nuanced legal poser.



Hi Aussie,
do you reckon Pell will be back at the lovely
Vatican palace in a few months with a nice
drink of whisky in one hand & a fine Cuban cigar in the other -
having a good chuckle?   Smiley




no chance bobby  his career is in tatters for sure....

he has lost an enormous amount....just in respect alone..

I dont know where i stand on this  I really want him to be innocent....its a terrible thing to be accused of.....

yet at the same time I feel for the man involved...

there are far to many questions that do not have a clear answer for me....

when ever I go back after many years away.... I always find it is nothing like I remember it....

I went to see the church I was married in  when I went back to london  i couldnt remember it at all even though it overwhelmed me when we went in I had to make a quick exit....I am wondering if this injured person  has maybe made a mistake regarding the church involved......I dont know.. SadI am glad I am not a judge.
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #46 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:26pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:13pm:
Aussie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:09pm:
I am just picking up on a line of questions put by one of the Judges (the guy on the left) who was pushing the Crown's Counsel Boyce on the extent to which the Appeal Court ought to oversee or effect or impact upon a decision by a Jury.  It is a nuanced legal poser.



Hi Aussie,
do you reckon Pell will be back at the lovely
Vatican palace in a few months with a nice
drink of whisky in one hand & a fine Cuban cigar in the other -
having a good chuckle?   Smiley


If he is acquitted by the Appeal Court, sure....I expect the Pope will acknowledge that in some way.
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #47 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:33pm
 
cods wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:19pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:13pm:
Aussie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:09pm:
I am just picking up on a line of questions put by one of the Judges (the guy on the left) who was pushing the Crown's Counsel Boyce on the extent to which the Appeal Court ought to oversee or effect or impact upon a decision by a Jury.  It is a nuanced legal poser.



Hi Aussie,
do you reckon Pell will be back at the lovely
Vatican palace in a few months with a nice
drink of whisky in one hand & a fine Cuban cigar in the other -
having a good chuckle?   Smiley




no chance bobby  his career is in tatters for sure....

he has lost an enormous amount....just in respect alone..

I dont know where i stand on this  I really want him to be innocent....its a terrible thing to be accused of.....

yet at the same time I feel for the man involved...

there are far to many questions that do not have a clear answer for me....

when ever I go back after many years away.... I always find it is nothing like I remember it....

I went to see the church I was married in  when I went back to london  i couldnt remember it at all even though it overwhelmed me when we went in I had to make a quick exit....I am wondering if this injured person  has maybe made a mistake regarding the church involved......I dont know.. SadI am glad I am not a judge.



He could very well be innocent and just
paying for the crimes of others.
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #48 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:34pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:26pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:13pm:
Aussie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:09pm:
I am just picking up on a line of questions put by one of the Judges (the guy on the left) who was pushing the Crown's Counsel Boyce on the extent to which the Appeal Court ought to oversee or effect or impact upon a decision by a Jury.  It is a nuanced legal poser.



Hi Aussie,
do you reckon Pell will be back at the lovely
Vatican palace in a few months with a nice
drink of whisky in one hand & a fine Cuban cigar in the other -
having a good chuckle?   Smiley


If he is acquitted by the Appeal Court, sure....I expect the Pope will acknowledge that in some way.



Yes - Pell might get off the charges and be set free
for a lovely retirement.
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #49 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:38pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:34pm:
Aussie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:26pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:13pm:
Aussie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:09pm:
I am just picking up on a line of questions put by one of the Judges (the guy on the left) who was pushing the Crown's Counsel Boyce on the extent to which the Appeal Court ought to oversee or effect or impact upon a decision by a Jury.  It is a nuanced legal poser.



Hi Aussie,
do you reckon Pell will be back at the lovely
Vatican palace in a few months with a nice
drink of whisky in one hand & a fine Cuban cigar in the other -
having a good chuckle?   Smiley


If he is acquitted by the Appeal Court, sure....I expect the Pope will acknowledge that in some way.



Yes - Pell might get off the charges and be set free
for a lovely retirement.


What do you mean "get off"?

If they find him not guilty, it means he didn't do anything wrong.

Are you suggesting you're not going to accept the court's decision?

For the record, I'll accept their decision unreservedly.

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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #50 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:46pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:38pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:34pm:
Aussie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:26pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:13pm:
Aussie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:09pm:
I am just picking up on a line of questions put by one of the Judges (the guy on the left) who was pushing the Crown's Counsel Boyce on the extent to which the Appeal Court ought to oversee or effect or impact upon a decision by a Jury.  It is a nuanced legal poser.



Hi Aussie,
do you reckon Pell will be back at the lovely
Vatican palace in a few months with a nice
drink of whisky in one hand & a fine Cuban cigar in the other -
having a good chuckle?   Smiley


If he is acquitted by the Appeal Court, sure....I expect the Pope will acknowledge that in some way.



Yes - Pell might get off the charges and be set free
for a lovely retirement.


What do you mean "get off"?

If they find him not guilty, it means he didn't do anything wrong.

Are you suggesting you're not going to accept the court's decision?

For the record, I'll accept their decision unreservedly.




I will accept the decision too -
who said I wouldn't?

However - I believe that justice in our country depends on your wealth.
With enough money you can probably get out
of many cases where a poor innocent person would be in jail forever.
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #51 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:47pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:46pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:38pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:34pm:
Aussie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:26pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:13pm:
Aussie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:09pm:
I am just picking up on a line of questions put by one of the Judges (the guy on the left) who was pushing the Crown's Counsel Boyce on the extent to which the Appeal Court ought to oversee or effect or impact upon a decision by a Jury.  It is a nuanced legal poser.



Hi Aussie,
do you reckon Pell will be back at the lovely
Vatican palace in a few months with a nice
drink of whisky in one hand & a fine Cuban cigar in the other -
having a good chuckle?   Smiley


If he is acquitted by the Appeal Court, sure....I expect the Pope will acknowledge that in some way.



Yes - Pell might get off the charges and be set free
for a lovely retirement.


What do you mean "get off"?

If they find him not guilty, it means he didn't do anything wrong.

Are you suggesting you're not going to accept the court's decision?

For the record, I'll accept their decision unreservedly.




I will accept the decision too -
who said I wouldn't?

However - I believe that justice in our country depends on your wealth.
With enough money you can probably get out
of many cases where a poor innocent person would be in jail forever.


Sad, but (probably) true.

I blame Dutton & Morrison.

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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #52 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:47pm
 
Quote:
He could very well be innocent and just
paying for the crimes of others.


That concept played no part in the clinical environment of the Appeal Court.  That being said...I'll bet pounds to peanuts at least one of the Jurors went precisely down that route.

There was another aspect (among many) which was touched upon in the Appeal.  At the Trial at which Pell was convicted, it seems his QC Richter (an old style slugger adversarial advocate) was pushing the point to the Jury that the allegations of the complainant were 'impossible.'  Full stop.  So...it was argued....off the Jury trotted to consider that challenge and came back saying 'possible.'  The real point should always have been not about what was impossible or possible...rather, what has been proven beyond reasonable doubt.
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #53 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:53pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:38pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:34pm:
Aussie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:26pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:13pm:
Aussie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:09pm:
I am just picking up on a line of questions put by one of the Judges (the guy on the left) who was pushing the Crown's Counsel Boyce on the extent to which the Appeal Court ought to oversee or effect or impact upon a decision by a Jury.  It is a nuanced legal poser.



Hi Aussie,
do you reckon Pell will be back at the lovely
Vatican palace in a few months with a nice
drink of whisky in one hand & a fine Cuban cigar in the other -
having a good chuckle?   Smiley


If he is acquitted by the Appeal Court, sure....I expect the Pope will acknowledge that in some way.



Yes - Pell might get off the charges and be set free
for a lovely retirement.


What do you mean "get off"?

If they find him not guilty, it means he didn't do anything wrong.

Are you suggesting you're not going to accept the court's decision?

For the record, I'll accept their decision unreservedly.



The Appeal Court cannot do that.  It can uphold the appeal and quash the conviction.  That ends the matter but it is not a finding of innocence per se.  It means that the appeal succeeded and that the Appeal Court found that the decision of the Jury is unsafe, that is....there was insufficient proof to the relevant standard...beyond a reasonable doubt.


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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #54 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:58pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:53pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:38pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:34pm:
Aussie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:26pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:13pm:
Aussie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:09pm:
I am just picking up on a line of questions put by one of the Judges (the guy on the left) who was pushing the Crown's Counsel Boyce on the extent to which the Appeal Court ought to oversee or effect or impact upon a decision by a Jury.  It is a nuanced legal poser.



Hi Aussie,
do you reckon Pell will be back at the lovely
Vatican palace in a few months with a nice
drink of whisky in one hand & a fine Cuban cigar in the other -
having a good chuckle?   Smiley


If he is acquitted by the Appeal Court, sure....I expect the Pope will acknowledge that in some way.



Yes - Pell might get off the charges and be set free
for a lovely retirement.


What do you mean "get off"?

If they find him not guilty, it means he didn't do anything wrong.

Are you suggesting you're not going to accept the court's decision?

For the record, I'll accept their decision unreservedly.



The Appeal Court cannot do that.  It can uphold the appeal and quash the conviction.  That ends the matter but it is not a finding of innocence per se.  It means that the appeal succeeded and that the Appeal Court found that the decision of the Jury is unsafe, that is....there was insufficient proof to the relevant standard...beyond a reasonable doubt.




Indeed.

Whatever the result, I'll accept it.

I'll admit that I have no idea if he's guilty or not.

My gut tells me he was probably a bit creepy, and probably did a few creepy things, but didn't actually commit any physical sexual act with another person (he might have whipped out the old fella and jerked off - who knows).

However, I'll accept whatever is handed down.
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #55 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 8:35pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:33pm:
cods wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:19pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:13pm:
Aussie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:09pm:
I am just picking up on a line of questions put by one of the Judges (the guy on the left) who was pushing the Crown's Counsel Boyce on the extent to which the Appeal Court ought to oversee or effect or impact upon a decision by a Jury.  It is a nuanced legal poser.



Hi Aussie,
do you reckon Pell will be back at the lovely
Vatican palace in a few months with a nice
drink of whisky in one hand & a fine Cuban cigar in the other -
having a good chuckle?   Smiley




no chance bobby  his career is in tatters for sure....

he has lost an enormous amount....just in respect alone..

I dont know where i stand on this  I really want him to be innocent....its a terrible thing to be accused of.....

yet at the same time I feel for the man involved...

there are far to many questions that do not have a clear answer for me....

when ever I go back after many years away.... I always find it is nothing like I remember it....

I went to see the church I was married in  when I went back to london  i couldnt remember it at all even though it overwhelmed me when we went in I had to make a quick exit....I am wondering if this injured person  has maybe made a mistake regarding the church involved......I dont know.. SadI am glad I am not a judge.



He could very well be innocent and just
paying for the crimes of others.
I remember that old bloke at the Brighton beach change rooms seeing Pell with some kids. He told the kids to go and turned to Pell and told him "I know what you are up to. Don't let me see you hear again." And Pell never went back. That man was very believable.

Other men have accused Pell.

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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #56 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 8:51pm
 
Brendon wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 8:35pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:33pm:
cods wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:19pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:13pm:
Aussie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:09pm:
I am just picking up on a line of questions put by one of the Judges (the guy on the left) who was pushing the Crown's Counsel Boyce on the extent to which the Appeal Court ought to oversee or effect or impact upon a decision by a Jury.  It is a nuanced legal poser.



Hi Aussie,
do you reckon Pell will be back at the lovely
Vatican palace in a few months with a nice
drink of whisky in one hand & a fine Cuban cigar in the other -
having a good chuckle?   Smiley




no chance bobby  his career is in tatters for sure....

he has lost an enormous amount....just in respect alone..

I dont know where i stand on this  I really want him to be innocent....its a terrible thing to be accused of.....

yet at the same time I feel for the man involved...

there are far to many questions that do not have a clear answer for me....

when ever I go back after many years away.... I always find it is nothing like I remember it....

I went to see the church I was married in  when I went back to london  i couldnt remember it at all even though it overwhelmed me when we went in I had to make a quick exit....I am wondering if this injured person  has maybe made a mistake regarding the church involved......I dont know.. SadI am glad I am not a judge.



He could very well be innocent and just
paying for the crimes of others.
I remember that old bloke at the Brighton beach change rooms seeing Pell with some kids. He told the kids to go and turned to Pell and told him "I know what you are up to. Don't let me see you hear again." And Pell never went back. That man was very believable.

Other men have accused Pell.



For none of which he was charged.  Nothing there Brendon.  Totally irrelevant to this matter and the Appeal.
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #57 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 10:00pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 4:32pm:
Redmond Neck wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 4:20pm:
What are the odds?



The bloke on the left was addressing the ultimate question which is basically what role does an Appeal Court have when the question is put to it that the verdict of the Jury is under attack as being perverse.  I would have answered that this way.

"It is long established that a Jury verdict can properly be appealed as this one is on the basis that the evidence does not support a finding of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.  And yes, that does place this Court in the position of having to review all the evidence as we have done and then consider that question.  Your responsibility as an appeal court cannot be absolved by simply saying that it is the job of the Jury to arrive at conclusions of fact and it is all over door shut......because the High Court has given you the duty of looking at that verdict and then testing it against the weight of each bit of evidence and the entirety of it."


So basically, the whole case is being retried. But not quite.
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #58 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 10:03pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 8:51pm:
Brendon wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 8:35pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:33pm:
cods wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:19pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:13pm:
Aussie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:09pm:
I am just picking up on a line of questions put by one of the Judges (the guy on the left) who was pushing the Crown's Counsel Boyce on the extent to which the Appeal Court ought to oversee or effect or impact upon a decision by a Jury.  It is a nuanced legal poser.



Hi Aussie,
do you reckon Pell will be back at the lovely
Vatican palace in a few months with a nice
drink of whisky in one hand & a fine Cuban cigar in the other -
having a good chuckle?   Smiley




no chance bobby  his career is in tatters for sure....

he has lost an enormous amount....just in respect alone..

I dont know where i stand on this  I really want him to be innocent....its a terrible thing to be accused of.....

yet at the same time I feel for the man involved...

there are far to many questions that do not have a clear answer for me....

when ever I go back after many years away.... I always find it is nothing like I remember it....

I went to see the church I was married in  when I went back to london  i couldnt remember it at all even though it overwhelmed me when we went in I had to make a quick exit....I am wondering if this injured person  has maybe made a mistake regarding the church involved......I dont know.. SadI am glad I am not a judge.



He could very well be innocent and just
paying for the crimes of others.
I remember that old bloke at the Brighton beach change rooms seeing Pell with some kids. He told the kids to go and turned to Pell and told him "I know what you are up to. Don't let me see you hear again." And Pell never went back. That man was very believable.

Other men have accused Pell.



For none of which he was charged.  Nothing there Brendon.  Totally irrelevant to this matter and the Appeal.
No, I was saying that in regards to whether the accusation was believable. I'm not submitting it to the court. I'm posting it here.

Had the complaintant had a history of making false allegations, or his character was cast in doubt, it would get mentioned here.
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #59 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 10:04pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 8:51pm:
Brendon wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 8:35pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:33pm:
cods wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:19pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:13pm:
Aussie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:09pm:
I am just picking up on a line of questions put by one of the Judges (the guy on the left) who was pushing the Crown's Counsel Boyce on the extent to which the Appeal Court ought to oversee or effect or impact upon a decision by a Jury.  It is a nuanced legal poser.



Hi Aussie,
do you reckon Pell will be back at the lovely
Vatican palace in a few months with a nice
drink of whisky in one hand & a fine Cuban cigar in the other -
having a good chuckle?   Smiley




no chance bobby  his career is in tatters for sure....

he has lost an enormous amount....just in respect alone..

I dont know where i stand on this  I really want him to be innocent....its a terrible thing to be accused of.....

yet at the same time I feel for the man involved...

there are far to many questions that do not have a clear answer for me....

when ever I go back after many years away.... I always find it is nothing like I remember it....

I went to see the church I was married in  when I went back to london  i couldnt remember it at all even though it overwhelmed me when we went in I had to make a quick exit....I am wondering if this injured person  has maybe made a mistake regarding the church involved......I dont know.. SadI am glad I am not a judge.



He could very well be innocent and just
paying for the crimes of others.
I remember that old bloke at the Brighton beach change rooms seeing Pell with some kids. He told the kids to go and turned to Pell and told him "I know what you are up to. Don't let me see you hear again." And Pell never went back. That man was very believable.

Other men have accused Pell.



For none of which he was charged.  Nothing there Brendon.  Totally irrelevant to this matter and the Appeal.


He was definitely guilty of protecting paedophile priests by shifting them around to new locations where they got to start on new victims......

So regardless of whether his appeal against his own personal sexual abuse case is successful or not.... he is still as bad as those prosecuted paedophile priests under his control.
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #60 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 10:07pm
 
Ya see.....this typifies the very serious problem and it might well be that a "Brendon" was on that Jury.

Quote:
No, I was saying that in regards to whether the accusation was believable. I'm not submitting it to the court. I'm posting it here.

Had the complaintant had a history of making false allegations, or his character was cast in doubt, it would get mentioned here.
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #61 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 11:03pm
 
Gnads wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 10:04pm:
Aussie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 8:51pm:
Brendon wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 8:35pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:33pm:
cods wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:19pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:13pm:
Aussie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:09pm:
I am just picking up on a line of questions put by one of the Judges (the guy on the left) who was pushing the Crown's Counsel Boyce on the extent to which the Appeal Court ought to oversee or effect or impact upon a decision by a Jury.  It is a nuanced legal poser.



Hi Aussie,
do you reckon Pell will be back at the lovely
Vatican palace in a few months with a nice
drink of whisky in one hand & a fine Cuban cigar in the other -
having a good chuckle?   Smiley




no chance bobby  his career is in tatters for sure....

he has lost an enormous amount....just in respect alone..

I dont know where i stand on this  I really want him to be innocent....its a terrible thing to be accused of.....

yet at the same time I feel for the man involved...

there are far to many questions that do not have a clear answer for me....

when ever I go back after many years away.... I always find it is nothing like I remember it....

I went to see the church I was married in  when I went back to london  i couldnt remember it at all even though it overwhelmed me when we went in I had to make a quick exit....I am wondering if this injured person  has maybe made a mistake regarding the church involved......I dont know.. SadI am glad I am not a judge.



He could very well be innocent and just
paying for the crimes of others.
I remember that old bloke at the Brighton beach change rooms seeing Pell with some kids. He told the kids to go and turned to Pell and told him "I know what you are up to. Don't let me see you hear again." And Pell never went back. That man was very believable.

Other men have accused Pell.



For none of which he was charged.  Nothing there Brendon.  Totally irrelevant to this matter and the Appeal.


He was definitely guilty of protecting paedophile priests by shifting them around to new locations where they got to start on new victims......

So regardless of whether his appeal against his own personal sexual abuse case is successful or not.... he is still as bad as those prosecuted paedophile priests under his control.



Many criminals say that they are actually innocent of what they
were sent to jail for - the exact charges but -
they did far worse that they were never caught or charged for.
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #62 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 11:14pm
 
Quote:
He was definitely guilty of protecting paedophile priests by shifting them around to new locations where they got to start on new victims......


Definitely guilty....yet not even charged with it. 

Quote:
So regardless of whether his appeal against his own personal sexual abuse case is successful or not.... he is still as bad as those prosecuted paedophile priests under his control


You too were on that Jury, ey?
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #63 - Jun 7th, 2019 at 5:59am
 
Yes - but did he do the deed he was accused of?  Not convinced there....

He deserves chastisement for protecting paedophile priests .... as does the entire church hierarchy....

(disclaimer - I'm not a Catholic... my mother was, but the family are Anglican... even the Irish connection) .......
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #64 - Jun 7th, 2019 at 7:05am
 
Bobby. wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:34pm:
Aussie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:26pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:13pm:
Aussie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:09pm:
I am just picking up on a line of questions put by one of the Judges (the guy on the left) who was pushing the Crown's Counsel Boyce on the extent to which the Appeal Court ought to oversee or effect or impact upon a decision by a Jury.  It is a nuanced legal poser.



Hi Aussie,
do you reckon Pell will be back at the lovely
Vatican palace in a few months with a nice
drink of whisky in one hand & a fine Cuban cigar in the other -
having a good chuckle?   Smiley


If he is acquitted by the Appeal Court, sure....I expect the Pope will acknowledge that in some way.



Yes - Pell might get off the charges and be set free
for a lovely retirement.




when you say "get off"   that means  hes guilty as hell but it couldnt be proven...


you do see he id condemned either way dont you bobs?..

historically this took place soon after he became Archbishop of Melb....

it is/was well known he protected the Church as they all did in those days....so he would have known about the accusations and what the Church did about them..

is it conceivable he would place himself in direct line of being accused of sexual abuse..not by one boy but by two..who could have accused him the very next day.....

if you add up all the risk involved...that he is meant to have taken....it isnt too hard to have doubts.

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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #65 - Jun 7th, 2019 at 7:13am
 
cods wrote on Jun 7th, 2019 at 7:05am:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:34pm:
Aussie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:26pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:13pm:
Aussie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:09pm:
I am just picking up on a line of questions put by one of the Judges (the guy on the left) who was pushing the Crown's Counsel Boyce on the extent to which the Appeal Court ought to oversee or effect or impact upon a decision by a Jury.  It is a nuanced legal poser.



Hi Aussie,
do you reckon Pell will be back at the lovely
Vatican palace in a few months with a nice
drink of whisky in one hand & a fine Cuban cigar in the other -
having a good chuckle?   Smiley


If he is acquitted by the Appeal Court, sure....I expect the Pope will acknowledge that in some way.



Yes - Pell might get off the charges and be set free
for a lovely retirement.




when you say "get off"   that means  hes guilty as hell but it couldnt be proven...


you do see he id condemned either way dont you bobs?..

historically this took place soon after he became Archbishop of Melb....

it is/was well known he protected the Church as they all did in those days....so he would have known about the accusations and what the Church did about them..

is it conceivable he would place himself in direct line of being accused of sexual abuse..not by one boy but by two..who could have accused him the very next day.....

if you add up all the risk involved...that he is meant to have taken....it isnt too hard to have doubts.




Many criminals say that they are actually innocent of what they
were sent to jail for - the exact charges but -
they did far worse that they were never caught or charged for.
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #66 - Jun 7th, 2019 at 7:39am
 
Bobby. wrote on Jun 7th, 2019 at 7:13am:
cods wrote on Jun 7th, 2019 at 7:05am:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:34pm:
Aussie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:26pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:13pm:
Aussie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:09pm:
I am just picking up on a line of questions put by one of the Judges (the guy on the left) who was pushing the Crown's Counsel Boyce on the extent to which the Appeal Court ought to oversee or effect or impact upon a decision by a Jury.  It is a nuanced legal poser.



Hi Aussie,
do you reckon Pell will be back at the lovely
Vatican palace in a few months with a nice
drink of whisky in one hand & a fine Cuban cigar in the other -
having a good chuckle?   Smiley


If he is acquitted by the Appeal Court, sure....I expect the Pope will acknowledge that in some way.



Yes - Pell might get off the charges and be set free
for a lovely retirement.




when you say "get off"   that means  hes guilty as hell but it couldnt be proven...


you do see he id condemned either way dont you bobs?..

historically this took place soon after he became Archbishop of Melb....

it is/was well known he protected the Church as they all did in those days....so he would have known about the accusations and what the Church did about them..

is it conceivable he would place himself in direct line of being accused of sexual abuse..not by one boy but by two..who could have accused him the very next day.....

if you add up all the risk involved...that he is meant to have taken....it isnt too hard to have doubts.




Many criminals say that they are actually innocent of what they
were sent to jail for - the exact charges but -
they did far worse that they were never caught or charged for.



why are you comparing Pell with others?.....

he was a Cardinal in the Roman Catholic Church...

he is not by definition any old criminal...who has probably spent his life lying..
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #67 - Jun 7th, 2019 at 8:19am
 
Dear Cods,
to me, Pell is just a high class crook in fancy robes.
He must have known about abuse and covered it up.
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #68 - Jun 7th, 2019 at 8:28am
 
Bobby. wrote on Jun 7th, 2019 at 8:19am:
Dear Cods,
to me, Pell is just a high class crook in fancy robes.
He must have known about abuse and covered it up.



  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes   this isnt about him covering it up

its about him doing it..in Church.. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #69 - Jun 7th, 2019 at 9:33am
 
Pope changed the Lord's Prayer recently

from 'Lead us not into temptation'

to

'Do not let us fall into temptation'


Wonder how that reads?

Wouldn't 'Protect us from temptation'

or

' Defend us against temptation'

have been less wordy?


Anyway, here's a LINK


Google has numerous other sources
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All my comments, posts & opinions are to be regarded as satire & humour
 
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #70 - Jun 7th, 2019 at 12:43pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 11:14pm:
Quote:
He was definitely guilty of protecting paedophile priests by shifting them around to new locations where they got to start on new victims......


Definitely guilty....yet not even charged with it. 

Quote:
So regardless of whether his appeal against his own personal sexual abuse case is successful or not.... he is still as bad as those prosecuted paedophile priests under his control


You too were on that Jury, ey?


You voice your opinion I voiced mine... he admitted to shifting them to cover there actions.

That's guilty for mine.
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