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Pell's Appeal - Live Stream (Read 4186 times)
Redmond Neck
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #15 - Jun 5th, 2019 at 4:57pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jun 5th, 2019 at 4:49pm:
Captain Nemo wrote on Jun 5th, 2019 at 4:44pm:
Well, it seems on the face of the closing arguments today that there was indeed a failure to follow correct procedure in terms of the jury panel not being present during the accused plea!

How could such a failure have happened?

This technicality may well see the entire trial thrown out and yet another retrial take place.  Roll Eyes

The mind boggles.  Shocked


That was the one argument I was interested in but I could not get that link Mr Neck provided (he can be useful sometimes) to load.  Can you give me an outline of what that is all about and the suggested significance of it?


I think you had to do a refresh of the link unless you encountered lunch or morning tea break

F5 usually refreshes it.

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Captain Nemo
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #16 - Jun 5th, 2019 at 4:59pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jun 5th, 2019 at 4:49pm:
Captain Nemo wrote on Jun 5th, 2019 at 4:44pm:
Well, it seems on the face of the closing arguments today that there was indeed a failure to follow correct procedure in terms of the jury panel not being present during the accused plea!

How could such a failure have happened?

This technicality may well see the entire trial thrown out and yet another retrial take place.  Roll Eyes

The mind boggles.  Shocked


That was the one argument I was interested in but I could not get that link Mr Neck provided (he can be useful sometimes) to load.  Can you give me an outline of what that is all about and the suggested significance of it?


The argument was given, quoting the relevant sections of the legal statutes - that members of the jury panel, though not all - are required to be present during the plea statement of guilty or not guilty by the accused. It seems that the court clerks and judge failed to follow this technicality in the Pell trial. Hence, they argue, the entire trial was invalid.  Shocked

I think they have a point.

I'm also wondering if this is true, that there may be a "can of worms" opened up in cases where an accused is seen/heard via a video link?

The letter of the law could perhaps be interpreted to say that only the physical presence of the accused in front of at least some of the jury panel in making their plea is in fact required for a trial to proceed.


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Aussie
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #17 - Jun 5th, 2019 at 5:03pm
 
Captain Nemo wrote on Jun 5th, 2019 at 4:59pm:
Aussie wrote on Jun 5th, 2019 at 4:49pm:
Captain Nemo wrote on Jun 5th, 2019 at 4:44pm:
Well, it seems on the face of the closing arguments today that there was indeed a failure to follow correct procedure in terms of the jury panel not being present during the accused plea!

How could such a failure have happened?

This technicality may well see the entire trial thrown out and yet another retrial take place.  Roll Eyes

The mind boggles.  Shocked


That was the one argument I was interested in but I could not get that link Mr Neck provided (he can be useful sometimes) to load.  Can you give me an outline of what that is all about and the suggested significance of it?


The argument was given, quoting the relevant sections of the legal statutes - that members of the jury panel, though not all - are required to be present during the plea statement of guilty or not guilty by the accused. It seems that the court clerks and judge failed to follow this technicality in the Pell trial. Hence, they argue, the entire trial was invalid.  Shocked

I think they have a point.

I'm also wondering if this is true, that there may be a "can of worms" opened up in cases where an accused is seen/heard via a video link?

The letter of the law could perhaps be interpreted to say that only the physical presence of the accused in front of at least some of the jury panel in making their plea is in fact required for a trial to proceed.




What intrigues me is how or if it was argued that defect meant Pell did not get a fair trial.  Can you say?
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Captain Nemo
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #18 - Jun 5th, 2019 at 5:09pm
 
Not so much failed to get a fair trial, but rather that the trial can be argued to have never come to a conclusion, as it never technically started.  Shocked
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #19 - Jun 5th, 2019 at 5:21pm
 
Captain Nemo wrote on Jun 5th, 2019 at 5:09pm:
Not so much failed to get a fair trial, but rather that the trial can be argued to have never come to a conclusion, as it never technically started.  Shocked


A nullity from the start (ab initio)........hmmm........Neat point but I am doubtful the Appeal Court is going to hang their hat on that peg.  Much will depend on how fatal that technical flaw is seen as.  For example and a simplification....let's pretend it was discovered after the convictions that the Trial Judge was never a properly admitted as a Lawyer and thus could never have been a Judge.  That sort of thing would be fatal.  This one seems at the other end of the scale.

Oh well...let's see.
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #20 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 9:23am
 
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #21 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 9:25am
 
Redmond Neck wrote on Jun 5th, 2019 at 4:57pm:
Aussie wrote on Jun 5th, 2019 at 4:49pm:
Captain Nemo wrote on Jun 5th, 2019 at 4:44pm:
Well, it seems on the face of the closing arguments today that there was indeed a failure to follow correct procedure in terms of the jury panel not being present during the accused plea!

How could such a failure have happened?

This technicality may well see the entire trial thrown out and yet another retrial take place.  Roll Eyes

The mind boggles.  Shocked


That was the one argument I was interested in but I could not get that link Mr Neck provided (he can be useful sometimes) to load.  Can you give me an outline of what that is all about and the suggested significance of it?


I think you had to do a refresh of the link unless you encountered lunch or morning tea break

F5 usually refreshes it.




CTRL + F5 does a better job.

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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #22 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 9:52am
 
Redmond Neck wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 9:23am:


I still can't get that bastard....but I found another site which has it.  Crown is struggling.
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Redmond Neck
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #23 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 10:29am
 
Aussie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 9:52am:
Redmond Neck wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 9:23am:


I still can't get that bastard....but I found another site which has it.  Crown is struggling.


He sounds like a Mumbler Stumbler to me.
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #24 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 12:12pm
 
Redmond Neck wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 10:29am:
Aussie wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 9:52am:
Redmond Neck wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 9:23am:


I still can't get that bastard....but I found another site which has it.  Crown is struggling.


He sounds like a Mumbler Stumbler to me.


Well, if you have ever been in his shoes, you'd know.  When you get asked questions by a Judge, let alone three in relay, you need time to frame the response in your head...which this bloke covers with mumbles.  I just shut up until I could respond.
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PZ547
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #25 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 12:39pm
 
' In 1621, the Spaniard Father Jose de Calasanz established the Piarist Order to house and educate the poor children of Rome.  These schools flourished despite war, earthquakes and plague and quickly became established throughout Catholic Europe, eventually educating thousands of children.  Yet in 1646, Calasanz's order was abruptly abolished by the pope, amid rumours of a great scandal.

Karen Liebreich used highly restricted archive material to investigate the reasons for the order's closure.  Her book reveals for the first time the sexual abuse of children practised by some of the leading priests in the order and how Jose de Calasanz, later honoured as the patron saint of Catholic schools, knew of the scandal and tried to cover it up.  Fallen Order also shows how Pope Innocent X put a man known to be one of the most prolific abusers in charge of an order dedicated to the education of children.

Although the order was suppressed when the scandal eventually became public, it was later revived and is still in existence today, its turbulent past ignored.  This original and important book is an explosive account of an episode in history that the Catholic Church has failed to acknowledge in modern times.  It also shines a bright light on the controversies besetting the contemporary priesthood'


Fallen Order A History
Karen Liebreich
Atlantic Books

(c) 2004

ISBN: 1 84354 163 7
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Redmond Neck
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #26 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 2:28pm
 
Back On 2:15pm
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #27 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 3:40pm
 
Walker is on again, this guy is very confident and easy to understand!
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #28 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 4:09pm
 
Redmond Neck wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 3:40pm:
Walker is on again, this guy is very confident and easy to understand!


Yes....and he just boldly sorted the Judge on the left on the calling a witness matter.
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Re: Pell's Appeal - Live Stream
Reply #29 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 4:20pm
 
What are the odds?

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