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New hydrogen tank break through (Read 28971 times)
juliar
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New hydrogen tank break through
Jun 4th, 2019 at 7:44pm
 
The grotty inconvenient dangerous unsafe pollution spewing Electric Cars just moved a step towards the junk yards.

The HYDROGEN BEHEMOTH which can power big and small vehicles with quick refuel will eventually make the electric lithium death traps obsolete soon.


...
Vroom look at her go!!!



Better storage might give hydrogen the edge as renewable car fuel
Nadine Cranenburgh   May 29, 2019

...
New sensor could make hydrogen-powered cars safer

In the race for greener fuel, a major roadblock for hydrogen is the need for safer, more economical storage. Researchers in the United Kingdom have discovered a material that could make this possible.
For cars powered by hydrogen gas, the cost and size of storage tanks that can achieve a similar driving range is much greater than those powered by liquid fuels such as petrol.


This means the tanks required by hydrogen-powered vehicles designed to travel long distances without refuelling are prohibitively large and heavy.

Another drawback is that it is difficult to store hydrogen for transport as a potential fuel export.

In the quest for more compact storage, car manufacturers have tried several different tacks.

These have included high pressure tanks, and dropping the temperature for cryogenic storage of liquid hydrogen. But these systems are complex to operate, and have potential safety risks.

Systems that store hydrogen as liquid ammonia or formic acid are also under development.

Professor David Antonelli from Lancaster University has recently discovered a material that he says could allow existing tank sizes to fuel four times their current range.


“The real advantage this brings is in situations where you anticipate being off grid for long periods of time, such as long-haul truck journeys, drones, and robotics. It could also be used to run a house or a remote neighbourhood off a fuel cell,” said Antonelli.

Take the pressure down
A study recently published in Energy & Environmental Science describes how Antonelli used a “molecular sieve” to bind hydrogen, thanks to a chemical process that moves the two molecules further apart without breaking the bond between them. This is known as Kubas binding.

This process is reversible, takes place at room temperature, and uses much lower pressures than existing storage methods.

To compare, the new material stores hydrogen at 120 bar (12 Mpa), which is less than the pressure of a scuba tank. Existing tanks use storage pressures of 700 bar (70 MPa).

The researchers also claim that the material absorbs and stores excess heat, so the tank would not need external cooling or heating.

Molecular sieves made from the material, known as Kubas Manganese Hydride-1 (KMH-1), could be installed inside hydrogen storage tanks onboard vehicles such as cars, trucks and trains. When the storage pressure is dropped, hydrogen could be released to feed a fuel cell and power the vehicle.

Boost over batteries
Antonelli believes the low manufacturing cost and high energy density of his new material will help hydrogen-fuelled cars give electric vehicles a run for their money.

“The cost of manufacturing our material is so low, and the energy density it can store is so much higher than a lithium-ion battery, that we could see hydrogen fuel cell systems that cost five times less than lithium-ion batteries as well as providing a much longer range — potentially enabling journeys up to around four or five times longer between fill-ups,” Antonelli said.

The promising new material has been patented by the University of South Wales and licensed to Kubagen, a company co-owned by Antonelli, with a view to refining and scaling up for commercial applications.
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DonDeeHippy
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #1 - Jun 5th, 2019 at 6:56am
 
you do realize these cars still have a rather large lithium battery inside them Jules, if it's a fuel cell.. Wink
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #2 - Jun 5th, 2019 at 11:46am
 
As soon as the looney Greenies like Tweedledee smell HYDROGEN they go berserk.

When will ScoMo swing the subsidy away from the renewable rubbish onto the HYDROGEN FUTURE FUEL ?
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #3 - Jun 9th, 2019 at 9:08am
 
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1123449_hydrogen-supply-pinch-affects-san-f...

Hydrogen fuel-cell drivers in California’s San Francisco Bay Area may soon have to find a backup plan—like a gasoline or electric vehicle.
As of Wednesday night, 9 out of the 11 passenger-vehicle hydrogen stations in the Bay Area were down due to a hydrogen shortage—a status that remained the same going back to Monday. An explosion on Saturday, June 1, at a facility owned and operated by the chief hydrogen supplier for the region, Air Products and Chemicals Inc., is related to that shortage.

This is a critical issue for drivers of fuel-cell vehicles as they rely on the (very limited) hydrogen infrastructure. If that infrastructure goes down, drivers are simply out of luck.

Those with battery electric vehicles, on the other hand, have options. If they can’t charge up at home, they can fast-charge along the way, or connect to a Level 2 AC charge point at work or while shopping—or as a backup, at pretty much any AC socket along the way if they’re willing to wait all day or overnight.

Hydrogen just got dropped by Toyota as well, in their new 30 year plan on changing over to electric vehicle's….. Wink
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #4 - Jun 9th, 2019 at 11:28am
 
DonDeeHippy wrote on Jun 5th, 2019 at 6:56am:
you do realize these cars still have a rather large lithium battery inside them Jules, if it's a fuel cell.. Wink


Socko is retarded and can't read properly. Can only cut and paste and hurl childish abuse at others Cheesy LOL


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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #5 - Jun 9th, 2019 at 11:31am
 
DonDeeHippy wrote on Jun 9th, 2019 at 9:08am:
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1123449_hydrogen-supply-pinch-affects-san-f...

Hydrogen fuel-cell drivers in California’s San Francisco Bay Area may soon have to find a backup plan—like a gasoline or electric vehicle.
As of Wednesday night, 9 out of the 11 passenger-vehicle hydrogen stations in the Bay Area were down due to a hydrogen shortage—a status that remained the same going back to Monday. An explosion on Saturday, June 1, at a facility owned and operated by the chief hydrogen supplier for the region, Air Products and Chemicals Inc., is related to that shortage.

This is a critical issue for drivers of fuel-cell vehicles as they rely on the (very limited) hydrogen infrastructure. If that infrastructure goes down, drivers are simply out of luck.

Those with battery electric vehicles, on the other hand, have options. If they can’t charge up at home, they can fast-charge along the way, or connect to a Level 2 AC charge point at work or while shopping—or as a backup, at pretty much any AC socket along the way if they’re willing to wait all day or overnight.

Hydrogen just got dropped by Toyota as well, in their new 30 year plan on changing over to electric vehicle's….. Wink


Electricity infrastructure is everywhere and almost everyone has a power point at home they can use to charge up an EV. I say almost everyone except for socko who still uses oil lanterns Cheesy LOL
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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
 
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #6 - Jun 9th, 2019 at 4:21pm
 
Like I pointed out so correctly, as soon as the looney Greenies like Tweedledumb and Tweedledee smell HYDROGEN they go berserk.

It makes their Child's Minds that never developed in their Adult Bodies bounce around inside the vacant space between their ears.

Whatever will these inadequate creatures that can't compete in the human race be like when they are exposed to 5G death rays ?

When will ScoMo swing the subsidy away from the renewable rubbish onto the HYDROGEN FUTURE FUEL ?

While the dangerous unsafe pollution spewing all electric piles of junk have reached a dead end, the future for the real future fuel HYDROGEN burns brightly.

Hydrogen can be used to store the erratic energy produced from unreliable renewable rubbish.





Hydrogen: fuel of the future?
by Vicky Anning, Cambridge University Press FEBRUARY 6, 2018

...
As the race to find energy sources to replace our dwindling fossil fuel supplies continues apace, hydrogen is likely to play a crucial role in the future. Credit: Materials Research Society

Japan has already announced its intention to become the world's first "hydrogen society" - aiming to open 35 hydrogen fuelling stations by 2020. While Japanese car manufacturer Toyota expects 30 percent of its vehicles to be powered by hydrogen by 2050.

In a recent issue of MRS Energy & Sustainability, published jointly by the Materials Research Society and Cambridge University Press, scientists argue that sustainable, carbon-free methods of large-scale hydrogen production are the best way to prepare for our looming fossil-fuel free future (today hydrogen is producing from natural gas, generating large amounts of Carbon as side product).

Since water is the only bountiful source of hydrogen on the planet and sunlight is the most abundant energy source, global experts argue that solar-driven water splitting may become the technology of choice in the second half of this century - using sunlight to produce hydrogen from water.

However, the authors of three different papers focusing on the future of hydrogen suggest that significant research efforts and breakthroughs are urgently needed to help produce hydrogen on a suitably industrial scale that's fit for the 21st century and beyond.

...
Credit: MRS Energy & Sustainability (2017). DOI: 10.1557/mre.2017.15

Roel van de Krol from the Institute for Solar Fuels in Berlin and Bruce Parkinson from the University of Wyoming share their views that the current production processes for hydrogen using photovoltaics and wind-powered electrolysis are likely to dominate for the next few decades. But, they suggest, the next logical step is to integrate light absorption and catalysis in 'direct' photoelectrolysis routes. This would offer several advantages, they argue - including lower densities and better heat management.

In her paper, Katherine Ayers from Proton OnSite in Connecticut agrees that urgent action is needed. The realities of product development timelines dictate that existing commercial technologies such as low-temperature electrolysis will have to serve the majority of our needs for at least the next 20 years, she writes. However, to accelerate the impact of fundamental work in long-term technologies, she says that improved collaboration between researchers across academic, government and industry sectors is essential - to inform basic research as well as to leverage technology breakthroughs to help find solutions to our planet's looming fuel supply problems.

Last but not least, Artur Braun from the Swiss Materials Research Institute, EMPA shows us that science can always surprise us, even in an area where we think we know everything there is to know; he and co-author Qianli Chen give us a glimpse in their paper of a remarkable finding on how protons (hydrogen ions) can move through solids - a possible breakthrough for the future hydrogen economy.

https://phys.org/news/2018-02-hydrogen-fuel-future.html
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #7 - Jun 9th, 2019 at 5:53pm
 
"We've got a fuel that's clean, renewable, and doesn't create dangerous waste. Those greenies are gonna hate it so much!"
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #8 - Jun 10th, 2019 at 1:39am
 
Dangerous unsafe pollution spewing all electric toy cars have tanked as they clearly are not able to replace good solid reliable petrol and diesel vehicles.

Batteries can only power small toy cars so what about the many millions of large diesel powered vehicles and mining and manufacturing machines ?

This is where HYDROGEN steps in and elbows the rubbishy all electric toy cars aside.

When will ScoMo switch the subsidy being wasted on renewable rubbish which is a waste of white elephant money to HYDROGEN ?






The International Energy Agency (IEA) highlights that only three of twenty-six low carbon innovation areas - solar PV and onshore wind, energy storage and electric vehicles (EV) - are mature, commercially competitive and on track to deliver their share of the climate objectives set out at the 2015 Paris Climate Conference.

It is unlikely we can squeeze more out of these three technology areas than is currently projected. Solar PV and onshore wind are intermittent, so need to be used in conjunction with energy storage or other forms of power generation. The high-energy-density batteries that are used for both storage and EVs are causing concern around whether the supply of raw materials needed to manufacture them will be able to keep pace with their rapid uptake. According to BNEF, graphite demand is predicted to skyrocket from just 13,000 tons a year in 2015 to 852,000 tons in 2030, and the production of lithium, cobalt and manganese will increase more than 100-fold. This is already creating pressure on supply chains and prices - and on the people working in these mines, often in incredibly poor conditions.

Growing demand for EV batteries has caused a surge in demand for their raw materials.
                         
So what other options are available to us? The World Economic Forum’s latest white paper proposes some bold ideas to significantly accelerate sustainable energy innovation and support the uptake of future energy sources. One energy vector mentioned there that is often forgotten is hydrogen.

Hydrogen’s potential

Hydrogen has the potential to decarbonise electricity generation, transport and heat. That’s because when produced by electrolysis - using electricity to split water (H2O) into hydrogen and oxygen - hydrogen does not produce any pollutants.

Perhaps the best-known use for hydrogen currently is in transportation. With electric vehicles, drivers are often concerned about their range and the time it takes to recharge. Fuel cell electric vehicles, which run on hydrogen, avoid these concerns, as they have a longer range, a much faster refuelling time and require few behavioural changes.

Hydrogen can also be used to heat our homes. It can be blended with natural gas or burned on its own. The existing gas infrastructure could be used to transport it, which would avoid the grid costs associated with greater electrification of heat.

Once produced, hydrogen could also act as both a short and long‐term energy store. Proponents suggest that surplus renewable power – produced, for example, when the wind blows at night – can be harnessed and the hydrogen produced using this electricity can be stored in salt caverns or high-pressure tanks. Earlier this month a report by the Institution of Mechanical Engineers called for more demonstration sites and a forum in which to discuss hydrogen’s long-term storage potential.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/05/this-forgotten-element-could-be-the-key-t...
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #9 - Jun 10th, 2019 at 8:12pm
 
Robot wrote on Jun 9th, 2019 at 5:53pm:
"We've got a fuel that's clean, renewable, and doesn't create dangerous waste. Those greenies are gonna hate it so much!"


If you are stupid enough to pay for it then you deserve to get ripped off. The smart ones will be charging up their EV's for free from their own rooftop solar Wink




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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #10 - Jun 10th, 2019 at 9:49pm
 
The dopey Greeny Tweedledumb just can't help showing off how dumb she is.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #11 - Jun 10th, 2019 at 10:52pm
 
juliar wrote on Jun 10th, 2019 at 9:49pm:
The dopey Greeny Tweedledumb just can't help showing off how dumb she is.


that reply is just more proof that you are retarded socko Cheesy LOL
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #12 - Jun 10th, 2019 at 11:01pm
 
Robot wrote on Jun 9th, 2019 at 5:53pm:
"We've got a fuel that's clean, renewable, and doesn't create dangerous waste. Those greenies are gonna hate it so much!"


If I am not the only one here who has run a process that strips hydrogen from other gasses please speak up.

We used a system of cryogenics to separate the different gasses to produce a 95% hydrogen stream. To oversimplify the process you might have noticed that when you use canned air to blow the cookie crumbs out of your key boards that the can becomes cold.

Quote:
The Joule-Thomson (JT) effect is a thermodynamic process that occurs when a fluid expands from high pressure to low pressure at constant enthalpy (an isenthalpic process). Such a process can be approximated in the real world by expanding a fluid from high pressure to low pressure across a valve. Under the right conditions, this can cause cooling of the fluid.


https://cryogenicsociety.org/resources/defining_cryogenics/joule-thomson_effect/

The other method is to strip the hydrogen from natural gas with steam.

Hydrogen is the lightest gas, is odorless and burns with an invisible flame in daylight. The test to determine if using hydrogen for fuel is to add up the cost to produce it compared to others. The upside is the exhaust is harmless water vapor.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #13 - Jun 10th, 2019 at 11:55pm
 
Doesn't matter what Australia innovates.
It won't be allowed to allow Australians to 'get ahead' in the world.
Everything gets given to the USA first and anything with-held against their ownership (or even Britains) is deemed 'National Security Risk'.
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #14 - Jun 11th, 2019 at 8:40am
 
MD, there is a vast amount of research going on solving the practical parts of the whole HYDROGEN FUTURE FUEL puzzle.

A lot of research is going on on how to extract Hydrogen from water.

There are systems already working overseas but to become successful commercially a bit more work is required.

But you can be certain it is coming.

See batteries can only be used to power toy cars and are too small to be used to power large diesel machines whereas hydrogen works quite well in large machinery. And is quick to refuel.

The impetus for hydrogen is the eventual end of oil.  Japan is going all out to swing over to hydrogen.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #15 - Jun 11th, 2019 at 1:05pm
 
juliar wrote on Jun 11th, 2019 at 8:40am:
MD, there is a vast amount of research going on solving the practical parts of the whole HYDROGEN FUTURE FUEL puzzle.

A lot of research is going on on how to extract Hydrogen from water.

There are systems already working overseas but to become successful commercially a bit more work is required.

But you can be certain it is coming.

See batteries can only be used to power toy cars and are too small to be used to power large diesel machines whereas hydrogen works quite well in large machinery. And is quick to refuel.

The impetus for hydrogen is the eventual end of oil.  Japan is going all out to swing over to hydrogen.


And even more research on better batteries which hydrogen cars still need btw Wink
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #16 - Jun 12th, 2019 at 7:51am
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 11th, 2019 at 1:05pm:
juliar wrote on Jun 11th, 2019 at 8:40am:
MD, there is a vast amount of research going on solving the practical parts of the whole HYDROGEN FUTURE FUEL puzzle.

A lot of research is going on on how to extract Hydrogen from water.

There are systems already working overseas but to become successful commercially a bit more work is required.

But you can be certain it is coming.

See batteries can only be used to power toy cars and are too small to be used to power large diesel machines whereas hydrogen works quite well in large machinery. And is quick to refuel.

The impetus for hydrogen is the eventual end of oil.  Japan is going all out to swing over to hydrogen.


And even more research on better batteries which hydrogen cars still need btw Wink

I don't think Jules has read about the electric car ferries in Norway,,,,, pretty big motors there Wink
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #17 - Jun 12th, 2019 at 2:49pm
 
Like I pointed out so correctly, as soon as the looney Greenies like Tweedledumb and Tweedledee smell HYDROGEN they go berserk.

The totally looney Greeny bloodclots Tweedledumb and Tweedledee are just so unbelievably ignorant as they continue their childish HATE SESSIONS against me.

But then what else can you expect from inadequate creatures that are just child's minds that never developed in Adult bodies - classic dumb Greenies  ?

These sad failures follow me around like lost puppies because they worship the ground I walk on.
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« Last Edit: Jun 12th, 2019 at 2:55pm by juliar »  
 
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #18 - Jun 12th, 2019 at 3:15pm
 
Hydrogen Fueling stations worldwide are having to close their doors, until the 2 explosions in 1 week have been investigated, It means the Hydrogen Fuel Cell cars will be useless until they open again because it's the only way they can refuel. which could take months.....

Toyota and Hyundai in Finland are already giving their customer's loaner cars until this mess is sorted....

I bet Jules is happy he hasn't bought one yet......
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #19 - Jun 12th, 2019 at 10:06pm
 
juliar wrote on Jun 12th, 2019 at 2:49pm:
Like I pointed out so correctly, as soon as the looney Greenies like Tweedledumb and Tweedledee smell HYDROGEN they go berserk.

The totally looney Greeny bloodclots Tweedledumb and Tweedledee are just so unbelievably ignorant as they continue their childish HATE SESSIONS against me.

But then what else can you expect from inadequate creatures that are just child's minds that never developed in Adult bodies - classic dumb Greenies  ?

These sad failures follow me around like lost puppies because they worship the ground I walk on.



Hydrogen is odorless, if used for fuel I would expect they would add a mercaptan like they do for natural gas.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #20 - Jun 13th, 2019 at 7:12am
 
Mortdooley wrote on Jun 12th, 2019 at 10:06pm:
juliar wrote on Jun 12th, 2019 at 2:49pm:
Like I pointed out so correctly, as soon as the looney Greenies like Tweedledumb and Tweedledee smell HYDROGEN they go berserk.

The totally looney Greeny bloodclots Tweedledumb and Tweedledee are just so unbelievably ignorant as they continue their childish HATE SESSIONS against me.

But then what else can you expect from inadequate creatures that are just child's minds that never developed in Adult bodies - classic dumb Greenies  ?

These sad failures follow me around like lost puppies because they worship the ground I walk on.



Hydrogen is odorless, if used for fuel I would expect they would add a mercaptan like they do for natural gas.

yes and the explosion that happened last week in the USA they had to use heat sensors on the place because the flame is invisible as well...
such a scarey source of fuel to be used, odourless invisible flame and highly combustible... Wink
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #21 - Jun 13th, 2019 at 11:30am
 
DonDeeHippy wrote on Jun 12th, 2019 at 3:15pm:
Hydrogen Fueling stations worldwide are having to close their doors, until the 2 explosions in 1 week have been investigated, It means the Hydrogen Fuel Cell cars will be useless until they open again because it's the only way they can refuel. which could take months.....

Toyota and Hyundai in Finland are already giving their customer's loaner cars until this mess is sorted....

I bet Jules is happy he hasn't bought one yet......


That's why it has never ever taken off. A single atom molecule under huge pressures is thwart with danger ! Just a ticking time bomb !

Whilst socko likes to bag other people for their so called lack of "knowledge" this fundamental issue obviously alludes him.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #22 - Jun 13th, 2019 at 11:54am
 
Like I pointed out so correctly, as soon as the looney Greenies like Tweedledumb and Tweedledee smell HYDROGEN they go berserk.

The totally looney Greeny bloodclots Tweedledumb and Tweedledee are just so unbelievably ignorant as they continue their childish HATE SESSIONS against me.

But then what else can you expect from inadequate creatures that are just child's minds that never developed in Adult bodies - classic dumb Greenies  ?

These sad failures follow me around like lost puppies because they worship the ground I walk on.

California has had hydrogen cars for quite some years now operating quite successfully as replacements for petrol and diesel cars.

This is more than can be said for the dangerous unsafe pollution spewing all electric toy cars which are unsuitable to replace the reliable versatile petrol and diesel cars.

Japan is going all out to establish its hydrogen economy for the eventual end of oil.

Australia should follow suit to improve its security as all Australia's fuel is IMPORTED. What happens if the fuel tankers are stopped ?

ScoMo needs to divert the subsidy away from useless renewables to hydrogen production and HELE clean coal power stations.
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« Last Edit: Jun 13th, 2019 at 12:01pm by juliar »  
 
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #23 - Jun 13th, 2019 at 1:04pm
 
Now burying the looney Greenies in the rubbish dump and returning to the topic.

Shell is well on the way to swinging over to the NEW HYDROGEN FUEL ECONOMY in preparation for the end of oil.

While all electric piles of junk have tanked as they are just toys there is huge research going on to bring all aspects of the hydrogen fuel economy to fruition.

Whereas tiddly little batteries can only power toy cars powerful hydrogen can power small and big transport and industrial machines.


VIDEO: Hydrogen happening all around the world





HYDROGEN’S ROLE IN THE FUTURE OF TRANSPORT
Hydrogen could be an important low-carbon transport fuel in the future. Shell is part of several initiatives to encourage the adoption of hydrogen electric energy.

Hydrogen fuel-cell electric vehicles convert compressed hydrogen from the fuel tank into electricity that powers the electric motor of a vehicle. When driven, such cars do not produce greenhouse gases from their tailpipe – the only emission is water vapour. When renewable electricity is used to make the hydrogen, the vehicle can effectively be powered without generating any emissions.

Hydrogen vehicles have similar performance and acceleration capabilities to petrol and diesel cars. They are quick to refuel and can drive similar distances. Energy is stored in compressed hydrogen fuel, rather than a battery, which means that hydrogen-powered cars can potentially drive up to 700 kilometres without refuelling.

The cars take up to five minutes to refuel – similar to current refuelling times for petrol and diesel cars.


The future of Hydrogen
In 2017, Shell published a study on the future of hydrogen in the transport sector, jointly produced with the Wuppertal Institute for Climate, Environment and Energy.

Full Shell hydrogen study:-
  https://www.shell.com/energy-and-innovation/new-energies/hydrogen/_jcr_content/p...

The study concludes that in 2050, 113 million fuel cell electric vehicles (FCEVs) could save up to 68 million tonnes of fuel and almost 200 million tonnes of carbon emissions, making a significant contribution to reducing energy consumption and greenhouse gas emissions in the transport sector.


Hydrogen study presentation:-
   https://www.shell.com/energy-and-innovation/new-energies/hydrogen/_jcr_content/p...



VIDEO: DRIVING INTO A HYDROGEN FUTURE



...
Man refuelling at Shell Hydrogen station in Germany

Shell already has hydrogen facilities at five of its retail stations in Germany. One station, in Hamburg, uses electricity generated by wind power to produce low carbon hydrogen, which is stored on-site

How Shell works together
For hydrogen electric transport to succeed, vehicle manufacturers, fuel suppliers and governments need to work together.

There is a need for more hydrogen vehicles to be available as well as sufficient refuelling infrastructure to attract customers. Businesses also require incentives to build this infrastructure. Learn about the path towards competitive refueling infrastructure.

In Germany, Shell is part of a joint venture with industrial gas manufacturers Air Liquide and Linde, car manufacturer Daimler and energy companies Total and OMV, to develop a nationwide network of 400 hydrogen refuelling stations for new hydrogen car models by 2023.

The German government and the European Union are also part-funding the initiative.

In 2017 Shell became the first branded fuel retailer to sell hydrogen at one of its retail sites in the UK. The new hydrogen refuelling station in Cobham, on the outskirts of London, is the first of three hydrogen stations Shell plans to open in the Southeast of England in 2017, in partnership with ITM. Learn more about our hydrogen refuelling station in Cobham here.

In the USA, Shell has two hydrogen filling stations in Los Angeles, and is currently working in partnership with Toyota, with the support of the State of California, to further develop its hydrogen refuelling network. In 2018, Shell opened its first hydrogen station in Vancouver, Canada and announced plans to build four new hydrogen stations in The Netherlands.

Shell is also assessing the potential for similar projects in other parts of the USA as well as the UK, Canada, Switzerland, Austria, France, Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxemburg and China.


Related links
Shell and HTEC launched Canada's first hydrogen refuelling station in June 2018 

Shell opens hydrogen station in the UK

See what it takes to build a new hydrogen filling station

October 1, 2015 - Shell to install nationwide network of hydrogen vehicle fuelling pumps in Germany


https://www.shell.com/energy-and-innovation/new-energies/hydrogen.html
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #24 - Jun 13th, 2019 at 1:31pm
 
Hydrogen Fueling stations worldwide are having to close their doors, until the 2 explosions in 1 week have been investigated, It means the Hydrogen Fuel Cell cars will be useless until they open again because it's the only way they can refuel. which could take months.....

Toyota and Hyundai in Finland are already giving their customer's loaner cars until this mess is sorted....
Toyota in California are almost giving their hydrogen car away just to get rid of stock


Jules 2 explosion in one week and countries are closing down all the hydrogen stations, at the moment the whole hydrogen feet is grounded until they can figure out why the stations are exploding,,, it's not looking good for a already dodgy transport system...... Wink

This is real news as we speak not just some made up in the future thing you love to show... Wink
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #25 - Jun 13th, 2019 at 1:36pm
 
Like I pointed out so correctly, as soon as the looney Greenies like Tweedledumb and Tweedledee smell HYDROGEN they go berserk.

The totally looney Greeny bloodclots Tweedledumb and Tweedledee are just so unbelievably ignorant as they continue their childish HATE SESSIONS against me.

But then what else can you expect from inadequate creatures that are just child's minds that never developed in Adult bodies - classic dumb Greenies  ?

These sad failures follow me around like lost puppies because they worship the ground I walk on.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #26 - Jun 13th, 2019 at 3:05pm
 
Hey Socko have you heard the latest news ?? Cheesy LOL

DonDeeHippy wrote on Jun 12th, 2019 at 8:26am:
Hydrogen Fueling Station Explodes: Toyota & Hyundai Halt Fuel Cell Car Sales

Blast was so big it set off airbags in nearby cars.


A hydrogen refueling station exploded and stood in flames yesterday in Sandvika, Norway, which could make June 10, 2019 the day when the perception about hydrogen stations and hydrogen fuel cell cars, in general, will forever change.
According to reports from the Uno-X station, the explosion was huge. It triggered airbags in nearby cars and caused the necessity to close off the busy E18 and E16 intersection. A safety zone of 500 meters was recommended by the fire service.

"“It is probably a tank that has exploded at the hydrogen station next to the police station at Kjorbo,” The Fire Services tells the local newspaper Budstikka."
"“E18 near the site is closed in both directions due to the danger of explosion. The E16 at the Bjornegarden tunnel in Barum is closed for the same reason,” The Road Traffic Central tweets Tweets."

The cause of the explosion is not yet known as it needs to be investigated.

Because of that, Uno-X closed its two other stations with hydrogen in Norway, while carmakers - Toyota and Hyundai - temporarily stopped sales of FCVs (well, only a few per month were usually sold anyway). Owners of FCVs are expected to get loaner cars.


Taking into consideration how few hydrogen refueling stations are installed around the world, with this explosion, the average number of explosions per station will probably be orders of magnitude higher than for any other fuel. Not a good thing if you intend to promote FCVs.
We were often criticizing hydrogen fuel cell cars as a poor alternative for all-electric, because of low energy efficiency, high cost and lack of refueling infrastructure. As the charging times decreased in new BEVs thanks to ultra-fast chargers and the range on a single charge increased, it seemed that FCVs will never have a chance to take off. Any issues with safety (especially if repeated) only adds to the challenge.


Just last week a Hydrogen Plant in Sanfracisco exploded and stopped hydrogen supply there, now this...

The explosion set off airbags in surrounding areas, just lucky no one was refilling.......Hydrogen is a highly flammable liquid under immense pressure (10,000psi)..... Wink




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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #27 - Jun 13th, 2019 at 3:21pm
 
Like I pointed out so correctly, as soon as the looney Greenies like Tweedledumb and Tweedledee smell HYDROGEN they go berserk.

The totally looney Greeny bloodclots Tweedledumb and Tweedledee are just so unbelievably ignorant as they continue their childish HATE SESSIONS against me.

But then what else can you expect from inadequate creatures that are just child's minds that never developed in Adult bodies - classic dumb Greenies  ?

These sad failures follow me around like lost puppies because they worship the ground I walk on.
     
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #28 - Jun 13th, 2019 at 3:23pm
 
The Hydrogen future is Exploding;;; Literally Cheesy
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #29 - Jun 13th, 2019 at 3:26pm
 
There is that nauseating totally looney Greeny tweedledee carrying on her Greeny HATE SESSION with me.

She follows me around like a lost puppy because she worships the ground I walk on.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #30 - Jun 13th, 2019 at 6:46pm
 
DonDeeHippy wrote on Jun 13th, 2019 at 3:23pm:
The Hydrogen future is Exploding;;; Literally Cheesy


like socko said it literally is a "tank break through" Cheesy LOL
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Reply #31 - Jun 27th, 2019 at 6:11pm
 
Like I pointed out so correctly, as soon as the looney Greenies like Tweedledumb and Tweedledee smell HYDROGEN they go berserk.

Sometimes I amaze myself by how correct my predictions are.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #32 - Jul 1st, 2019 at 11:03am
 
When will ScoMo get behind the inevitable introduction of the HYDROGEN FUEL REVOLUTION ?

Already the all electric toy cars are clearly a dead end solution to nothing.





Hydrogen isn't the fuel of the future. It's already here
Brad Page 11 Jun 2019

...
A Hyundai Tucson hydrogen fuel cell electric vehicle (FCEV) is filled at the pump by Derek Joyce in a photo op in Newport Beach, California June 9, 2014. Hydrogen pumps at filling stations could soon become commonplace - with help from policymakers Image: REUTERS/Alex Gallardo

When the leaders of the world’s economic powerhouses meet at this year’s G20 in Japan, two important decarbonization options are expected to finally garner the attention they deserve: carbon capture and hydrogen. The urgent need to reduce CO2 emissions means these two technologies – together and on their own – will be necessary alongside accelerated efficiency, exponential renewables growth and nuclear power.

Hydrogen is a rising star. Versatile and environmentally friendly, hydrogen produces no CO2 when combusted, only water and heat. It can be used to decarbonise electricity, heating, transport and industry. A clean energy vector, hydrogen is easily transported, stored and blended with current fuels.

To many, hydrogen remains elusive; it is thought of as an energy source of the future. However, proven large-scale and low-emission hydrogen production is already here through hydrogen production from natural resources coupled with carbon capture and storage (CCS), a suite of emission-reduction technologies that store CO2 underground. As such, alongside other key mitigation options, the large-scale deployment of hydrogen production can kickstart the energy transition.

Hydrogen can be produced from a variety of sources, a fact that confers both security and diversity of supply. Natural gas reforming (SMR) provides half of all hydrogen produced globally. Electrolysis, a process in which excess clean energy produced from renewables or nuclear is used to produce hydrogen, become important as a form of energy storage, and will enable greater integration of renewables.

Governments need to support both electrolysis and carbon capture hydrogen. The Australian Government estimates global hydrogen demand at 530 million tonnes per annum (mtpa) by 2050. To put this number into context: to produce 500 mtpa of hydrogen, 25,000 terawatt hours (TWh) of electricity will be required from nuclear and renewables – more than 2.5 times as much as the total electricity produced from nuclear and renewables combined in 2018. Hydrogen production with carbon capture is also currently cheaper, and has been demonstrated to be half to two-thirds the price of electrolysis.


However, a carbon capture and storage scale-up is not only necessary for hydrogen production, but also to eliminate CO2 from industrial processes, as well as power plants. The International Energy Agency (IEA) in its 2018 World Energy Outlook said existing and under-construction infrastructure accounts for almost all the carbon budget left, and along these lines emphasises the necessary scale-up of carbon capture. The IEA’s Sustainable Development Scenario estimates that roughly 2,000 CCS facilities are necessary by 2040, up from 18 today, to limit global warming. Currently, four of those 18 CCS facilities produce hydrogen, while two are under construction in Canada, with a total production capacity of close to 1.5 million tonnes of hydrogen annually.

Innovators are also hoping to integrate the Allam Cycle, a promising and groundbreaking carbon capture technology in demonstration – essentially a zero-emission natural gas power plant – with hydrogen production.

That Japan chose to highlight hydrogen and carbon capture at the G20 is not a surprise. Dependent on fuel imports, yet committed to fighting climate change, the country is a pioneer in hydrogen technology and a champion for carbon capture and storage. Looking ahead to 2050, hydrogen is the fuel of choice for its quest to reduce emissions from all sectors. Its car manufacturing industry, along with other industry players, has demonstrated a commitment to a hydrogen-powered future. Carbon capture facilities globally are using Japanese technologies to catch CO2. Japan has also teamed up with the Australian government to produce hydrogen in Australia for import to Japan. Next year, Japan is hosting the Summer Olympics, also dubbed the Hydrogen Olympics, and is expected to show great progress.

Read the exciting rest here

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/06/the-clean-energy-of-the-future-is-already...
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #33 - Jul 1st, 2019 at 11:08am
 
DonDeeHippy wrote on Jun 12th, 2019 at 8:26am:
Hydrogen Fueling Station Explodes: Toyota & Hyundai Halt Fuel Cell Car Sales

Blast was so big it set off airbags in nearby cars.


A hydrogen refueling station exploded and stood in flames yesterday in Sandvika, Norway, which could make June 10, 2019 the day when the perception about hydrogen stations and hydrogen fuel cell cars, in general, will forever change.
According to reports from the Uno-X station, the explosion was huge. It triggered airbags in nearby cars and caused the necessity to close off the busy E18 and E16 intersection. A safety zone of 500 meters was recommended by the fire service.

"“It is probably a tank that has exploded at the hydrogen station next to the police station at Kjorbo,” The Fire Services tells the local newspaper Budstikka."
"“E18 near the site is closed in both directions due to the danger of explosion. The E16 at the Bjornegarden tunnel in Barum is closed for the same reason,” The Road Traffic Central tweets Tweets."

The cause of the explosion is not yet known as it needs to be investigated.

Because of that, Uno-X closed its two other stations with hydrogen in Norway, while carmakers - Toyota and Hyundai - temporarily stopped sales of FCVs (well, only a few per month were usually sold anyway). Owners of FCVs are expected to get loaner cars.


Taking into consideration how few hydrogen refueling stations are installed around the world, with this explosion, the average number of explosions per station will probably be orders of magnitude higher than for any other fuel. Not a good thing if you intend to promote FCVs.
We were often criticizing hydrogen fuel cell cars as a poor alternative for all-electric, because of low energy efficiency, high cost and lack of refueling infrastructure. As the charging times decreased in new BEVs thanks to ultra-fast chargers and the range on a single charge increased, it seemed that FCVs will never have a chance to take off. Any issues with safety (especially if repeated) only adds to the challenge.


Just last week a Hydrogen Plant in Sanfracisco exploded and stopped hydrogen supply there, now this...

The explosion set off airbags in surrounding areas, just lucky no one was refilling.......Hydrogen is a highly flammable liquid under immense pressure (10,000psi)..... Wink


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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #34 - Jul 1st, 2019 at 11:29am
 
Like I pointed out so correctly, as soon as the looney Greenies like Tweedledumb and Tweedledee smell HYDROGEN they go berserk.

Sometimes I amaze myself by how correct my predictions are.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #35 - Jul 1st, 2019 at 3:33pm
 
Hey socko there are over 450 electric vehicle manufacturers in china and no-go zones for fossil fool clunkers. WTF are you and scumo going to do about it ? Cheesy LOL
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Reply #36 - Jul 1st, 2019 at 7:03pm
 
Like I pointed out so correctly, as soon as the looney Greenies like Tweedledumb and Tweedledee smell HYDROGEN they go berserk.

Sometimes I amaze myself by how correct my predictions are.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #37 - Jul 1st, 2019 at 8:11pm
 
juliar wrote on Jul 1st, 2019 at 7:03pm:
Like I pointed out so correctly, as soon as the looney Greenies like Tweedledumb and Tweedledee smell HYDROGEN they go berserk.

Sometimes I amaze myself by how correct my predictions are.


where are they then Cheesy LOL
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Reply #38 - Jul 1st, 2019 at 8:21pm
 
Like I pointed out so correctly, as soon as the looney Greenies like Tweedledumb and Tweedledee smell HYDROGEN they go berserk.

Sometimes I amaze myself by how correct my predictions are.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #39 - Jul 1st, 2019 at 10:37pm
 
juliar wrote on Jul 1st, 2019 at 8:21pm:
Like I pointed out so correctly, as soon as the looney Greenies like Tweedledumb and Tweedledee smell HYDROGEN they go berserk.

Sometimes I amaze myself by how correct my predictions are.


Where are they ??: Cheesy LOL
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Reply #40 - Jul 1st, 2019 at 11:10pm
 
Like I pointed out so correctly, as soon as the looney Greenies like Tweedledumb and Tweedledee smell HYDROGEN they go berserk.

Sometimes I amaze myself by how correct my predictions are.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #41 - Jul 2nd, 2019 at 11:22am
 
juliar wrote on Jul 1st, 2019 at 11:10pm:
Like I pointed out so correctly, as soon as the looney Greenies like Tweedledumb and Tweedledee smell HYDROGEN they go berserk.

Sometimes I amaze myself by how correct my predictions are.


20 years ago they said they would be available in 20 years time but where are they today ?  Maybe you need to wait another 20 years Cheesy LOL
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Reply #42 - Jul 2nd, 2019 at 8:52pm
 
Like I pointed out so correctly, as soon as the looney Greenies like Tweedledumb and Tweedledee smell HYDROGEN they go berserk.

Sometimes I amaze myself by how correct my predictions are.
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Reply #43 - Jul 2nd, 2019 at 9:41pm
 
Where have all the hydrogen cars gone....far far away..... Cheesy LOL
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Reply #44 - Jul 3rd, 2019 at 9:48am
 
Like I pointed out so correctly, as soon as the looney Greenies like Tweedledumb and Tweedledee smell HYDROGEN they go berserk.

Sometimes I amaze myself by how correct my predictions are.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #45 - Jul 3rd, 2019 at 11:05am
 
Hey socko have you heard the latest news regarding the failed hydrogen experiment ?

DonDeeHippy wrote on Jun 12th, 2019 at 8:45am:
https://www.upi.com/Archives/1983/03/30/A-tanker-truck-loaded-with-liquid-hydrog...
Tanker Filled With Liquid Hydrogen Catches Fire at El Cajon Business Park


PHOENIX, Ariz. -- A tanker truck loaded with liquid hydrogen caught fire Wednesday but a team led by a daring engineer facing extreme danger sealed the flaming leak and ended the threat of a huge fireball explosion to northwest Phoenix.
The truck driver and his assistant were the only ones injured. Residents, school children and business people over a 2-square-block area were evacuated during the 7 -hour crisis.

'I thought it was a sonic boom -- a giant sonic boom' said A.J. Pfeifer of Richardson's Carpet Shoppe about three blocks away. 'It rattled the building.'
A Fire Department spokesman, Steve Jensen, said a storage tank explosion could have sent a fireball roaring through business and residential districts of northwest Phoenix for a quarter-mile in all directions.
Fire crews were called away because of the danger and were powerless to stop the leak or the fire. They hosed down the fire until Predmore arrived, donned protective clothing and led an 11-man team to the burning truck.

This explosion that rattled Building 7 blocks away was just a bit of escaped hydrogen, the tanker didn't blow up,,, imagine the damage if the whole thing went up, probably just a crater.....
As you can see , Hydrogen is a very dangerous Liquid and considering how few Hydrogen stations there are and how many Explosions we really need to think about it as a fuel source.... Wink

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Reply #46 - Jul 3rd, 2019 at 11:30am
 
Like I pointed out so correctly, as soon as the looney Greenies like Tweedledumb and Tweedledee smell HYDROGEN they go berserk.

Sometimes I amaze myself by how correct my predictions are.

These looney Greenies are just so impractical and so technically obtuse.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #47 - Jul 8th, 2019 at 11:47am
 
juliar wrote on Jul 3rd, 2019 at 11:30am:
Like I pointed out so correctly, as soon as the looney Greenies like Tweedledumb and Tweedledee smell HYDROGEN they go berserk.

Sometimes I amaze myself by how correct my predictions are.

These looney Greenies are just so impractical and so technically obtuse.


so where are they if your predictions are so correct ? Cheesy LOL
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #48 - Jul 8th, 2019 at 8:25pm
 
Like I pointed out so correctly, as soon as the looney Greenies like Tweedledumb and Tweedledee smell HYDROGEN they go berserk.

Sometimes I amaze myself by how correct my predictions are.

These looney Greenies are just so impractical and so technically obtuse.

And the idiotic loony Greeny Tweedledumb continues to follow me around like a lost puppy because she idolizes the ground I walk on.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #49 - Jul 9th, 2019 at 11:21am
 
As all electric toy cars are a failure diesel and petrol will dominate until hydrogen takes over.

Massive research is occurring to complete the hydrogen technology.





Hydrogen: Fuel for Our Future?

...
Hydrogen-powered cars like this one may be commonplace in the future.

On July 18, BP and GE announced plans to jointly develop up to 15 new hydrogen power plants for generating electricity over the coming decade. The hydrogen will be derived from fossil fuels, including coal and natural gas. While the plants will emit greenhouse gases, the companies will employ carbon capture technologies they claim will reduce carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions by 90 percent. Although the operations will not be pollution-free, some environmentalists welcome the companies’ investment in hydrogen technology as a key development in bringing about a hydrogen economy.

Though often mistaken for an energy source, hydrogen is actually an artificial fuel—like gasoline—that can be used to transport and store energy. Although it can be separated from fossil fuels, its long-term promise lies in its ability to be separated from water through electrolysis, using solar power or other forms of renewable energy. Its most publicized application is in transportation: the hydrogen gas is stored in an on-board tank until combined with oxygen in a fuel cell, where the electrolysis process is essentially reversed, releasing chemical energy via an electrical charge. This electricity can then be used to power electric motors in cars, buses, boats, and other vehicles.

In the short run, fuel cells are also considered a promising source of electricity for some industries and buildings, particularly those that require steady back-up power during blackouts. In this application, hydrogen is most often derived from natural gas and propane, which already have extensive distribution systems in place.

Using fossil fuels to generate hydrogen can result in modestly lower emissions of CO2 and other pollutants than using these fuels as conventional energy sources, though this depends on the efficiency of the technologies involved. In order to get larger reductions, the CO2 must be captured and sequestered, a process that remains experimental and expensive. However, when the hydrogen separation process is based on renewable energy sources, hydrogen use is essentially pollution-free, with the only byproducts being water and heat.

Since 1999, when Iceland announced its plan to become the first hydrogen-based economy in the next 30–40 years, governments and businesses have begun to seriously consider the hydrogen option. In 2000, the small South Pacific island of Vanuatu joined Iceland in making steps towards widespread hydrogen use and deriving 100 percent of its energy from renewable sources. Hawaii, another island rich in renewable resources such as geothermal and wind energy yet still heavily dependent on oil imports, invested in hydrogen research in 2001, hoping to eventually export hydrogen to other states and nations. And California, the United States’ largest gasoline consumer, began developing the world’s first “hydrogen highway” in 2004.


Despite initial enthusiasm, some of these regions are making greater progress than others. Freyr Sverrisson, an independent energy consultant from Iceland, says that so far the Icelandic government has taken little concrete action toward meeting its hydrogen target: it is home to only one hydrogen fueling station, and the country has invested significant funds in the aluminum smelting industry that could have been placed in hydrogen development. By generating a carbon dioxide byproduct, the smelting process is helping Iceland become the world’s fastest growing emitter of CO2. The government is “squandering an opportunity,” Sverrisson says, by choosing to invest in the quick returns of aluminum smelting instead of developing the hydrogen economy with longer-term benefits.

Yet according to Jon Bjorn Skulason, general manager of Icelandic New Energy, the country is just 6–12 months behind the original plan proposed in 1999. In addition to having three operational fuel cell buses and the one fuel cell filling station, Iceland has passed a preemptive law that will eliminate all taxes on hydrogen cars once they begin to be sold domestically. With over 90 percent of citizens in favor of developing a hydrogen economy and continued support for the project from the government and business, Skulason does not foresee any further delays.

California, meanwhile, already boasts 23 hydrogen fueling stations (14 more are slated to be built this year) and has put 137 hydrogen-powered passenger cars and 9 buses on the road, more than any region in the world, according to Chris White of the California Fuel Cell Partnership. Although the partnership is still operating in a “demonstration phase,” notes White, several of its members (many of which are automotive companies) expect to make hydrogen-powered commercial vehicles as early as 2010, and to have showroom cars by 2015. According to White, this is the same way hybrid-electric cars were introduced to the market in the 1990s.


http://www.worldwatch.org/node/4516
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #50 - Jul 9th, 2019 at 11:37am
 
The preparation for the hydrogen revolution is happening all over the world.

Here is an excellent update on world hydrogen advances.


...
Hydrogen bus in London


A glimpse at a hydrogen future
Dennis Van Puyvelde 11 Apr 2019

Germany is clearly ahead of Australia in its hydrogen economy. The technologies to produce and use hydrogen have been developed, tested and are clearly working as expected.

Australia appears to have bilateral political support to develop the hydrogen opportunity, especially as it builds on our energy export industries.

While still a relatively new industry globally, there are lessons to be learned from countries like Germany and others who are ahead of us in the rush towards a hydrogen future.

I was fortunate to travel to Germany last month with a study group to observe what this hydrogen future might look like.

Read about the future here

https://www.energynetworks.com.au/news/energy-insider/glimpse-hydrogen-future
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #51 - Jul 10th, 2019 at 1:22am
 

Tell us what hydrogen smells like. Having worked with it for years I can tell you ours is odorless, colorless and burns with a blue flame in the dark and invisible flame in daylight. Hydrogen contains no carbon, it is an element.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #52 - Jul 10th, 2019 at 8:28am
 
You are absolutely correct.

To use it as a general fuel hydrogen will have to have an odor added to it, a bit like LPG.

Where it is already being used such as London and Germany and California they must have solved this aspect already.

Hydrogen odorant. A hydrogen odorant in any form, is a minute amount of odorant such as ethyl isobutyrate, with a rotting-cabbage-like smell, that is added to the otherwise colorless and almost odorless hydrogen gas, so that leaks can be detected before a fire or explosion occurs.

What is put in natural gas to make it smell?
In its native state, natural gas is odorless, colorless and tasteless. Mercaptan, the harmless chemical that is added to natural gas, contains sulfur, which makes it smell. Many people describe the odor of mercaptan as similar to rotten eggs.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #53 - Jul 12th, 2019 at 12:51pm
 
While the ineffective unsuccessful all electric toy cars slip into the doldrums because no thinking person would touch one of these dangerous unsafe pollution spewing heaps the HYDROGEN BEHEMOTH rises huge on the horizon.


...
Powerful cheap clean HYDROGEN POWER will soon be everywhere as the abandoned unsafe electric toy cars are stacked up in the junk yards.




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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #54 - Jul 12th, 2019 at 12:52pm
 
Hindengburg on tracks.
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

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Reply #55 - Jul 12th, 2019 at 1:30pm
 
BH is slipping into tired worn out fiction.

The Hindenburg fire was diesel fuel and inflammable cladding.

Oh Gosh now I have started him off on an endless circular deviation from the topic.

BH have you had your flu shot ? Or are you scared of getting autism ?
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #56 - Jul 12th, 2019 at 1:36pm
 
juliar wrote on Jul 12th, 2019 at 1:30pm:
BH is slipping into tired worn out fiction.

The Hindenburg fire was diesel fuel and inflammable cladding.

Oh Gosh now I have started him off on an endless circular deviation from the topic.

BH have you had your flu shot ? Or are you scared of getting autism ?



Lol you mean the hydrogen on the Hindenburg didn't catch fire?
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Reply #57 - Jul 12th, 2019 at 1:38pm
 
And just looking at it, the most commonly accepted source of fuel was the hydrogen.

uel leak
The 2001 documentary Hindenburg Disaster: Probable Cause suggested that 16-year-old Bobby Rutan, who claimed that he had smelled "gasoline" when he was standing below the Hindenburg's aft port engine, had detected a diesel fuel leak. During the investigation, Commander Charles Rosendahl dismissed the boy's report. The day before the disaster, a fuel pump had broken during the flight, but the chief engineer testified that the pump had been replaced. The resulting vapor of a diesel leak, in addition to the engines being overheated, would have been highly flammable and could have self-combusted.

However, the documentary makes numerous mistakes into assuming that the fire began in the keel. First, it implies that the crewmen in the lower fin had seen the fire start in the keel and that Hans Freund and Helmut Lau looked towards the front of the airship to see the fire, when Freund was actually looking rearward when the fire started. Most witnesses on the ground reported seeing flames at the top of the ship, but the only location where a fuel leak could have a potential ignition source is the engines. Additionally, while investigators in the documentary suggest it is possible for a fire in the keel to go unnoticed until it breaks the top section, other investigators such as Greg Feith consider it unlikely because the only point diesel comes into contact with a hot surface is the engines.

Rate of flame propagation
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Reply #58 - Jul 12th, 2019 at 1:41pm
 
Now to cut short BH's deviation with some FACTS.




Hindenburg & Hydrogen
By Karl S. Kruszelnicki Published 26 February 2004

...

One of the most famous images of the 20th Century was that of the giant German airship Hindenurg engulfed in flames. The explosion was blamed on hydrogen gas but Dr Karl reckons it can't be so...

Back in the middle 1930s, if you were wealthy enough to fly across the Atlantic Ocean, there were two choices - noisy, small and cramped aeroplanes, or quiet and spacious airships that got their lift from huge bladders filled with hydrogen gas. Back then, it was still an even bet as to which technology would win in the long run - the faster and noisy aeroplanes, or the slower and more relaxed Lighter-Than-Air airships.

The answer was settled in favour of the aeroplanes in 1937, when the enormous Nazi hydrogen-filled airship, the Hindenburg, slowly maneuvered in to dock at a 50-metre high mast at the Lakehurst Air Base, in New Jersey. This was its 21st crossing of the Atlantic Ocean. Suddenly, there was a spark on the Hindenberg, and then flames. Newsreel film crews captured the sudden disaster as the Hindenburg burst into enormous plumes of red-yellow flames, and collapsed to the ground. Over thirty of the 97 people on board died. The disaster was blamed on the extreme flammability of the hydrogen lifting gas that filled most of the airship.

This bad reputation of hydrogen still bothers car manufacturers today, as they explore the use of hydrogen as a safe, non-polluting alternative to fossil fuels for powering cars. But it turns out that the extreme flammability of hydrogen is a mythconception.

The Hindenburg was the largest aircraft ever to fly - longer than three football fields (about 250 metres long). It was powered by four enormous 1,200 HP V-16 Mercedes-Benz Diesel engines that spun 6-metre wooden propellers. It cruised at 125 kph (faster than ocean liners and trains), and when fully loaded with fuel, had a range of some 16,000 km. It was opulently and almost decadently luxurious - each of the 50 cabins had both a shower and a bath, as well as electric lights and a telephone. The clubroom had an aluminium piano. The public rooms were large and decorated in the style of luxury ship - and the windows could be opened. It might be a little slower than the aeroplanes of the day - but it was a lot more comfortable.

The Hindenburg was painted with silvery powdered aluminium, to better show off the giant Nazi swastikas on the tail section. When it flew over cities, the on-board loudspeakers broadcast Nazi propaganda announcements, and the crew dropped thousands of small Nazi flags for the school children below. This is not surprising, because the Nazi Minister of Propaganda funded the Hindenburg.

At that time, the US government controlled the only significant supplies of helium (a non-flammable lifting gas), and refused to supply it to the Nazi government. So the Hindenburg had to use flammable hydrogen.

As the Hindenburg came in to Lakehurst on May 6, 1937, there was a storm brewing, and so there was much static electricity in the air - which charged up the aircraft. When the crew dropped the mooring ropes down to the ground, the static electricity was earthed, which set off sparks on the Hindenburg.

The Hindenburg was covered with cotton fabric, that had to be waterproof. So it had been swabbed with cellulose acetate (which happened to be very inflammable) that was then covered with aluminium powder (which is used as rocket fuel to propel the Space Shuttle into orbit). Indeed, the aluminium powder was in tiny flakes, which made them very susceptible to sparking. It was inevitable that a charged atmosphere would ignite the flammable skin.

In all of this, the hydrogen was innocent. In the terrible disaster, the Hindenburg burnt with a red flame. But hydrogen burns with an almost invisible bluish flame. In the Hindenburg disaster, as soon as the hydrogen bladders were opened by the flames, the hydrogen inside would have escaped up and away from the burning airship - and it would not have not contributed to the ensuing fire. The hydrogen was totally innocent. In fact, in 1935, a helium-filled airship with an acetate-aluminium skin burned near Point Sur in California with equal ferocity. The Hindenberg disaster was not caused by the hydrogen.

The lesson is obvious - the next time you build an airship, don't paint the inflammable acetate skin with aluminium rocket fuel.


http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2004/02/26/1052864.htm
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #59 - Jul 12th, 2019 at 1:44pm
 
Except it wasnt cellulose acetate, Dr Karl used the myth,


it was cellulose acetate butyrate, which is combustible.

Instead, the cellulose acetate butyrate (CAB) used to seal the zeppelin's skin is rated by the plastics industry as combustible but nonflammable. That is, it will burn if placed within a fire but is not readily ignited. It should also be noted that not all fabric on the Hindenburg burned.[52] For example, the fabric on the port and starboard tail fins was not completely consumed. That the fabric not near the hydrogen fire did not burn is not consistent with the "explosive" dope hypothesis.
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Reply #60 - Jul 12th, 2019 at 1:45pm
 
The TV show MythBusters explored the incendiary paint hypothesis. Their findings indicated that the aluminum and iron oxide ratios in the Hindenburg's skin, while certainly flammable, were not enough on their own to destroy the zeppelin. Had the skin contained enough metal to produce pure thermite, the Hindenburg would have been too heavy to fly. The MythBusters team also discovered that the Hindenburg's coated skin had a higher ignition temperature than that of untreated material, and that it would initially burn slowly, but that after some time the fire would begin to accelerate considerably with some indication of a thermite reaction. From this, they concluded that those arguing against the incendiary paint theory may have been wrong about the airship's skin not forming thermite due to the compounds being separated in different layers. Despite this, the skin alone would burn too slowly to account for the rapid spread of the fire, as it would have taken four times the speed for the ship to burn. The MythBusters concluded that the paint may have contributed to the disaster, but that it was not the sole reason for such rapid combustion.[53]
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Reply #61 - Jul 12th, 2019 at 2:54pm
 
BH is flogging the standard Greeny fictional conspiratorial fantasies. The Mythbusters are known for making a show with a few bangs with little regard for reality.

Suppose the next thing he will say is that the man on the moon landing was faked.

In any case the day of the dirigibles is long past and so their cargo of diesel and inflammable cladding is long gone.

Hydrogen is being used today in several countries for fueling cars and trucks.

Like any inflammable fuel there are safety regulations required.

When the oil gets scarce HYDROGEN is there ready to take over and many countries are already preparing the infrastructure for that day.
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Reply #62 - Jul 12th, 2019 at 3:05pm
 
I'm sorry, The simple fact is that you can't produce any evidence for yours and I've got heaps for mine. So there.
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Reply #63 - Jul 12th, 2019 at 4:19pm
 
Well who really cares as there won't be any more dirigibles with diesel and flammable cladding.

We are both just relying on written explanations which may or may not be correct. Unless you were there and collected evidence your evidence is just fairy floss.

But as several countries are already using hydrogen powered vehicles any problems seem to have been solved.

And the hydrogen tank is a fibrous affair while the dirigible hydrogen tank was a leaky cloth affair which was very likely flammable when subjected to hot enough heat.

When the oil gets scarce then Hydrogen is the obvious replacement and many countries are already preparing for the transition. An added incentive is there is no pollution from the hydrogen powered vehicles.

So your well worn chestnut seems to have fizzled. But then you are in your element in unsolved riddles as you can go on and on about them.

There would not be a massive amount of research going on into full blown hydrogen use if it was a dead end like the all electric toy cars are.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #64 - Jul 13th, 2019 at 12:48pm
 
juliar wrote on Jul 12th, 2019 at 2:54pm:
BH is flogging the standard Greeny fictional conspiratorial fantasies. The Mythbusters are known for making a show with a few bangs with little regard for reality.

Suppose the next thing he will say is that the man on the moon landing was faked.

In any case the day of the dirigibles is long past and so their cargo of diesel and inflammable cladding is long gone.

Hydrogen is being used today in several countries for fueling cars and trucks.

Like any inflammable fuel there are safety regulations required.

When the oil gets scarce HYDROGEN is there ready to take over and many countries are already preparing the infrastructure for that day.


As opposed to your copy and paste bullshit socko which nobody reads btw Cheesy LOL
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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
 
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Reply #65 - Jul 15th, 2019 at 12:06pm
 
The chronically disturbed loony Greeny Tweedledumb is STILL following me around like a lost puppy because she worships the ground I walk on. what a demented drongo. Wonder when she will start showing off her sock collection again ? It is the smell of hydrogen that sets her off.
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Reply #66 - Jul 15th, 2019 at 1:52pm
 
I wouldn't give you the steam off my sh.t socko Cheesy LOL
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Reply #67 - Jul 15th, 2019 at 5:34pm
 
The chronically disturbed loony Greeny Tweedledumb is STILL following me around like a lost puppy because she worships the ground I walk on. What a demented drongo. Wonder when she will start showing off her sock collection again ? It is the smell of hydrogen that sets her off.
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Reply #68 - Jul 15th, 2019 at 5:53pm
 
copy and paste again Cheesy LOL
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Reply #69 - Jul 15th, 2019 at 7:10pm
 
The mere smell of hydrogen sets the dopey dumb Greeny Tweedledumb right off. What a grotty drongo. What a useless waste of space that is not worth feeding. And she follows me around like a lost puppy because she worships the ground I walk on ever since I showed her up to be just a dumb drongo. And she is STILL carrying on her HATE session with me. Classic Greeny weirdoh response. What a drooling fool.
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Reply #70 - Jul 15th, 2019 at 9:01pm
 
The mere smell of hydrogen sets the dopey dumb Greeny Tweedledum right off. What a grotty drongo. What a useless waste of space that is not worth feeding. And she follows me around like a lost puppy because she worships the ground I walk on ever since I showed her up to be just a dumb drongo. And she is STILL carrying on her HATE session with me. Classic Greeny weirdoh response. What a drooling fool.
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Reply #71 - Jul 16th, 2019 at 6:05pm
 
Ah Robot I can tell you are a man of learning and discrimination.
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Reply #72 - Jul 17th, 2019 at 10:59am
 
Yep when Ford was here making cars they made the oldest junk that in the end nobody was interested in except for socko and his mates Sad Now they are in bed with VW working on driverless electric cars ! How times have changed !

https://www.wired.com/story/ford-vw-hitch-self-driving-efforts-together/
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Reply #73 - Jul 17th, 2019 at 11:29am
 
My Faithful devoted follower the loony Greeny Tweedledumb is right at my heels as she sees me as her human.
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Reply #74 - Jul 17th, 2019 at 12:58pm
 
Leaving my pet behind and onwards to the HYDROGEN REVOLUTION.

Qld is going Hell for Leather to get their hydrogen economy up and running.




Hydrogen power plant pilot, a first for Queensland, highlights resurgence of humble chemical element
ABC Capricornia By Emilia Terzon Updated 19 Jul 2018, 8:16am

...
PHOTO: An example of the hydrogen fuel cell that will power Northern Oil's Gladstone facility. (Supplied: Northern Oil)

RELATED STORY: World-first coal to hydrogen plant trialled in Victoria
RELATED STORY: New SA hydrogen plant to be 'world's largest'
RELATED STORY: Recycling solar promises 'green' hydrogen breakthrough

It is often associated with nuclear bombs and overzealous hype in the 1970s, but now the idea of hydrogen as a clean energy source is making a comeback in Australia.

In central Queensland, there are now several hydrogen energy projects in the pipeline.

The Australian company Northern Oil is set to build the first hydrogen fuel cell of its kind in Queensland at its pilot biofuels refinery in Gladstone in early 2019.

What is renewable hydrogen?
Hydrogen is a carrier of energy
Renewable hydrogen is produced by purifying seawater, then separating the hydrogen and oxygen via electrolysis
The process of separation is powered by solar or wind energy
The hydrogen becomes a vehicle for storing renewable energy such as solar or wind
It is converted into transportable forms for export

Announcing it would bring the European technology to Australia this week, the company's Troy Collins described this as "no small feat".

"It's something everybody in Gladstone should be very proud of," he said.

The State Government has also been in talks with Japanese experts about building a solar-to-hydrogen plant in central Queensland that would export hydrogen gas out of Gladstone's port.

Read all about the future here

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-18/hydrogen-power-pilot-concept-gladstone-re...
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Reply #75 - Jul 17th, 2019 at 1:59pm
 
now NZ is all go for the HYDROGEN REVOLUTION as it is now obvious that the all electric toy cars are a failure.



Could hydrogen turn Taranaki into the Norway of the Pacific?
Mike Watson 15:42, Jul 20 2018

Forget what you think you know about hydrogen - it could be the fuel of the future.

...
A truck thunders through New Plymouth - could it one day be run on hydrogen gas instead of diesel?

Hydrogen - clean, green and coming to a neighbourhood near you.

How soon is the unknown factor, but it's something New Plymouth-based hydrogen fuel start-up entrepreneur Andrew Clennett​ is keen to bring forward.

While the highly-volatile gas may still carry a reputation from the Hindenburg airship disaster of 1937, Clennett says technology has moved forward in the intervening years and hydrogen could now be the saviour of a transportation industry heavily dependent on finite fossil fuels.

Clennett's company, Hiringa Energy, is located in the front room of the 165-year-old pioneer settlers' cottage that he and his wife and business partner, Cathy, call home.

READ MORE:
* Oh Lord, won't you buy me a hydrogen fuel-cell car?
* Why Toyota wants to make your next car run on hydrogen
* Taranaki company gets $950k from Government for hydrogen fuel project
* Joint Māori and Japanese hydrogen pilot project for Taupō

The view from the front lawn looks out over Strandon and Fitzroy Beach and the Tasman Sea.

Hiringa Energy's vision for a zero carbon emission future using hydrogen is more far reaching.

The two year old company was recently handed $950,000 from the coalition government's provincial growth fund to scope out hydrogen's potential as a zero emissions energy source for high use industries such as heavy transport.


Clennett sees a bright future for Taranaki, soon to lose its oil and gas advantage, and New Zealand as a whole if hydrogen can be used to replace diesel and petrol.

The region could either produce and distribute hydrogen, or develop infrastructure expertise.

"We certainly think it is the fuel of the future that is ready to go now if you look at it as hydrogen and electric vehicles versus petrol and diesel.

"We could become the Norway of the Pacific and be a net exporter of energy," the former oil and gas executive says.

Both Clennett, and his wife come from strong project management backgrounds, having worked around the world and in New Zealand.

Before he helped found Hiringa Energy in the kitchen of his historic home, Clennett worked for Todd Energy, which recently announced it was to build a $100m peaker plant near New Plymouth to generate electricity.

The couple do not consider themselves, or the company the "saviours" for the region, but started the company to have a better future for the next generation and their children, Cathy Clennett​ says.

"You need to have agents of change," adds her husband.

Andrew Clennett says hydrogen will play a big part in the region with oil and gas reserves a finite resource and current estimations of 10 years of supply of natural gas unless another discovery is made.

The need to develop hydrogen has become more urgent since the Government announced in April an end offshore exploration.

"The world is changing and the use of diesel and petrol is declining," he says.


Read the thrilling rest of the future under HYDROGEN here

https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/105601987/could-hydrogen-turn-taranaki-into-the-norway-of-the-pacific
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Reply #76 - Jul 17th, 2019 at 2:16pm
 
Every man and his dog knows all electric toy cars are a waste of time out on the road where it counts.

So BMW with its daggy grill is following the HYDROGEN trail along with many others.

When will ScoMo swing the subsidy away from useless renewables over to hydrogen infrastructure ?





BMW Prototype with Hydrogen Fuel Cell – First Drive
Test Drives | July 2nd, 2015 by Horatiu Boeriu          

...
BMW 5 series gt hydrogen fuel cell images

BMW first started with hydrogen powered cars with the Hydrogen 7 in 2005, a 7 Series powered by a V12 fueled by liquid hydrogen stored in a cryogenic tank, though BMW first started making hydrogen fuel cells in 1999. This was actually a pretty large success, with many celebrities, like Jay Leno buying them. While not a commercial success, it got the word out that hydrogen cars are a viable option for the future, and that in itself is a success.

BMW has now created another FCEV (Fuel Cell Electric Vehicle) hydrogen powered vehicle, a demonstration vehicle to test out new technologies. The vehicle is based on a BMW 5 Series Gran Turismo and uses a 245hp electric motor and high-voltage battery, similar to the ones used in BMW’s eDrive and i Division plug-in hybrids. A tunnel tank, used to store hydrogen, is mounted in between the two axles.

Read on here

https://www.bmwblog.com/2015/07/02/bmw-prototype-with-hydrogen-fuel-cell-first-d...
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Reply #77 - Jul 18th, 2019 at 3:03pm
 
but where do you buy them from socko and where do you fill them up ? Cheesy
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Reply #78 - Jul 18th, 2019 at 6:55pm
 
The loony Greeny Tweedledumb is STILL following me around like a lost puppy because she worships the ground I walk on and she wants to keep her HATE SESSION with me going. Dumb Greenies are like that. She thinks I am her human.
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Reply #79 - Jul 18th, 2019 at 7:16pm
 
Now leaving my pet behind and back on the topic of the magnificent HYDROGEN ENERGY FUTURE.

Now Ayers Rock is going to float on Hydrogen. What a gas!!!



Could hydrogen energy be Australia's future? This village might show us how
By Nicole Hasham July 5, 2019 — 11.45pm

Running a luxury resort in the middle of a desert is no easy task. Grass must be kept green and sweaty tourists cooled. There are shuttle buses to power, buffets to cook, phones to charge. The lights must stay on at the souvenir shop.

Until recently, the Ayers Rock Resort near Uluru relied mostly on natural gas, brought in by truck, to keep things running. Solar panels were installed a few years ago and the buses use diesel.
But now there is a new plan to power the place: limitless, zero-emissions hydrogen.


...
Ayers Rock Resort at the village of Yulara near Uluru will be a world-leading test site for the technology.CREDIT:ALAMY

The release this week of a Council of Australian Governments consultation paper on a national hydrogen strategy was another signal that finally, hydrogen's day may have arrived.

Adding to the momentum, the International Energy Agency last month declared 2019 a critical year for hydrogen, saying the resource could be poised to "fulfil its longstanding potential as a clean energy solution".

But the strong case for hydrogen has long been known. The question now is will the buzz translate into a real-world energy revolution? Or will high costs, political complacency and industry skittishness mean another false start?

Scientists say zero-emissions hydrogen is among the emerging technologies that must be scaled up if the planet is to have any hope of avoiding the most catastrophic climate change effects.

...
Japan is prioritising the development of a hydrogen-based economy, including zero-emission hydrogen fuel cell vehicles.

So what is hydrogen? Colourless and odourless, it's the most abundant chemical element in the universe and fills stars and gas planets like Jupiter and Saturn. On Earth it is not freely available as a gas but is bound into many common substances including water and fossil fuels.

To break these bonds and produce hydrogen requires various technologies, and an energy source to power it all.

Read on to see the thrilling future of the happy hydrogen

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/could-hydrogen-energy-be-australia-s-fut...
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #80 - Jul 18th, 2019 at 7:41pm
 
Things is getting fair dinkum now as the Libs swing behind the Hydrogen Revolution and open up a gigantic new export market.

How much subsidy will ScoMo throw at it ? Will he just transfer some of the subsidy being wasted on useless renewables across to the much more viable hydrogen ?

Australia wisely ignored the useless all electric toy cars.



Australia's top scientist calls for hydrogen revolution to replace fossil fuels
By Nicole Hasham October 10, 2018 — 12.01am

The federal government’s top scientist Alan Finkel says Australia could slash global carbon emissions and create a multi-billion dollar export industry by developing hydrogen as an everyday energy source to replace fossil fuels used in vehicles, homes and industry.

A major climate report on Monday identified hydrogen, which can be produced with virtually no emissions, as among fuel options that must be developed if the planet is stay below the critical 1.5 degrees warming threshold and avoid the worst climate change disasters.

The report by the UN’s climate science body, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, called for a coal phase-out by 2050 and predicted a substantial decline in the use of natural gas – two export industries upon which Australia is heavily reliant.

...
Chief scientist Alan Finkel says a massive hydrogen export industry could help the global transition away from fossil fuels.CREDIT:PHIL NOBLE

The report distilled 6000 scientific references and was authored by 91 scientists across 40 countries.

Environment Minister Melissa Price on Tuesday rejected the key findings of the report, despite not having read the full report, and said the call to eliminate coal-generated electricity was a "long bow".

Clean hydrogen is produced from water using renewable energy, or coal or methane using technology that captures and stores carbon.

Australia’s abundance of wind, sun and fossil fuels means it is well placed to produce hydrogen at scale, however carbon-capture has been constrained by large capital costs and its viability at large scale is unproven.

...
Dr Finkel recently returned from Japan where he explored the hydrogen export potential for Australia.CREDIT:ALEX ELLINGHAUSEN

In an exclusive opinion piece for Fairfax Media on Wednesday, Dr Finkel outlined a recent fact-finding trip to Japan which he said has “declared its intention to be the world’s first nation to use hydrogen as a mainstream fuel”. Japan presently imports 94 per cent of its energy as fossil fuels.

Japan, South Korea and other nations plan to increase the use of hydrogen, creating big export opportunities for Australia. However Brunei, Norway and Saudi Arabia are all racing to claim a share of the market.

In a separate interview, Dr Finkel told Fairfax Media that developing a clean hydrogen export business would “contribute very significantly to the global endeavour” to lower emissions.

“We would be helping Japan, Korea and other countries make their contribution ... from a global point of view it’s very significant,” he said.

Hydrogen would be used as an alternative to fossil fuels in cars, trucks, trains and ships, for electricity storage and generation as well as home and industrial uses, he said.

A massive hydrogen export business would provide low-cost clean fuel to Australian consumers. Hydrogen can be added to existing natural gas supplies and Energy Networks Australia says over time, gas networks could deliver 100 per cent hydrogen to replace natural gas.


The Minerals Council of Australia also supports development of the industry.

While questions remain over the viability of carbon-capture, Dr Finkel was “relatively optimistic that it could be done at massive scale and safely and at a good price point”.

...
Environment Minister Melissa Price has rejected the findings of 91 eminent scientists that coal should be phased out by 2050.CREDIT:ALEX ELLINGHAUSEN

Cost-effective carbon capture and storage might avoid the need to completely phase out coal, he said.

Over the next 30 years, creating a hydrogen export industry to match the existing LNG industry would require several hundred gigawatts of extra dedicated electricity, meaning new solar and wind projects would be needed, Dr Finkel said.

The Australian Renewable Energy Agency has explored ways to develop the industry and Dr Finkel is developing a proposal for a national hydrogen strategy to be presented to the Council of Australian Governments in December.


Ms Price has rejected at least four interview requests from Fairfax Media since taking on the environment portfolio. In an interview with ABC radio on Tuesday, Ms Price said the IPCC report “outlines possible pathways, this is not something that’s prescriptive”.

“I haven’t read the whole report ... but certainly we need to have a look at it,” she said.

“To say [coal has] got to be phased out by 2050 is drawing a very long bow, but we are a responsible government, we look at these things.”

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/australia-s-top-scientist-calls-for-hydr...
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #81 - Jul 20th, 2019 at 7:59pm
 
Quote:
Things is getting fair dinkum now as the Libs swing behind the Hydrogen Revolution and open up a gigantic new export market.

Will he just transfer some of the subsidy being wasted on useless renewables across to the much more viable hydrogen ?


The libs are doing what? Where does the hydrogen come from?

Quote:
Environment Minister Melissa Price on Tuesday rejected the key findings of the report, despite not having read the full report, and said the call to eliminate coal-generated electricity was a "long bow".

Clean hydrogen is produced from water using renewable energy, or coal or methane using technology that captures and stores carbon.

Australia’s abundance of wind, sun and fossil fuels means it is well placed to produce hydrogen at scale, however carbon-capture has been constrained by large capital costs and its viability at large scale is unproven.


I guess that leaves us with renewables to produce hydrogen. Seems you're in a catch 22, Juliar.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #82 - Jul 21st, 2019 at 5:52pm
 
Yes you are correct.


Already renewables are being trialed in Sth Aust to produce hydrogen using electrolysis where the water is split into oxygen and hydrogen.

The only trouble with this is the electrolytic process is still not very efficient but does work and is quite compatible with the erratic unreliable renewables stuff. A lot of research is going on into this.

There is the possibility of using hydrogen storage as a "battery" to hold energy produced from the erratic unreliable renewables. The hydrogen can then be used to fuel a generator.

The Libs know that there is NO future in renewables only, unless you want to close down ALL industry, and so they are keeping the coal generators going and upgrading them.

What is needed to get the hydrogen energy going is infrastructure so hydrogen refueling stations are as common as petrol stations. This is where the subsidy is needed.

Hydrogen is most commonly produced by steaming natural gas (methane) CH4.

Japan wants to produce hydrogen from Victorian brown coal and then import it into Japan as ammonia using the CSIRO splitting process.

There is an ASX company HAZER which is in the process of marketing a new process for extracting hydrogen from Natural Gas and not releasing CO2.

Already other countries like Germany are well advanced on developing their hydrogen economy in preparation for when the oil gets scarce.

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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #83 - Jul 21st, 2019 at 6:32pm
 
Youliar can't wait for the libbos to rip us on hydrogen deals just like they did with LNP gas. How history repeats Sad

Quote:
The going rate for a kilo of hydrogen in San Diego costs the 6kg capacity Mirai around $120 to fill; the same-size Corolla sedan petrol would cost $77 to fill at $1.40 per litre; and a Tesla S around $30 at 50 cents per Kw (and less at Tesla’s fixed Supercharger price of 35 cents/kW).


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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #84 - Jul 22nd, 2019 at 2:38pm
 
Scunge is STILL following me around like a lost puppy because she worships the ground I walk on and she wants to keep her HATE session with me going.

But ignoring Scunge and back to the TOPIC

One of the concerns about generating hydrogen by electrolysis was the need for fresh water but that is now past.

Break throughs are happening all the time as the world moves to the Hydrogen Energy Economy which will take over when the oil gets scarce.




Researchers find new way of extracting green hydrogen from seawater
Nadine Cranenburgh by Nadine Cranenburgh   March 21, 2019  in Energy  3 min read

...

US researchers have developed a prototype system that uses solar power to convert water from the ocean into hydrogen and oxygen, providing a way to store green energy without using fresh water.

The variable nature of renewable energy sources such as wind turbines and solar panels has seen an increasing demand for ways to store energy while the wind blows and the sun shines. Electrolysis of purified water into hydrogen and oxygen is a promising technology that doesn’t produce carbon emissions. However, widespread use of fresh water to store energy as hydrogen would place pressure on dwindling resources.

With oceans making up close to 70 per cent of the Earth’s surface and holding around 97 per cent of the planet’s water, researchers have been working to find a way to convert this abundant resource into clean energy without the need to go through expensive desalination processes.

Researchers at Stanford University in the US have recently developed a prototype system that can split seawater into hydrogen and oxygen using a “surprisingly simple” design that incorporates corrosion-resistant electrodes.


“If we had a crystal ball three years ago, it would have been done in a month,” said Professor Hongjie Dai in a statement.

A salty tale
During electrolysis, an electrical current is applied to two electrodes submerged in water, causing hydrogen to be produced at the negative electrode, and oxygen at the positive electrode. The major challenge in developing a way to electrolyse seawater is the production of chloride ions during the oxygen producing reaction at the positive electrode, which can cause corrosion.

In order to overcome this problem, the Stanford team developed a multilayer electrode which was able to chemically repel chloride ions. In their findings, recently published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, the researchers reported that when operated at low voltages and high currents, this electrode was able to operate for over 1000 hours in alkaline seawater.

To achieve this, the positive electrode’s nickel-foam core was coated first with nickel sulphide then nickel-iron hydroxide. When the core was powered up, the nickel-iron hydroxide began the electrolysis reaction. This reaction caused the nickel sulphide layer to become coated in negative ions, which repelled the like-charged chloride ions and protected the electrode core.

According to researcher Michael Kenney, the protective coating significantly increased the life of the positive electrode from 12 hours to more than 1000 hours.

The research paper stated that the prototype system achieved “a current density of 400 mA/cm2 under 2.1 V in real seawater or salt-accumulated seawater at room temperature, while only 1.72 V was needed in industrial electrolysis conditions at 80°C”.

Kenney said this was comparable to existing processes that use purified water.

“The impressive thing about this study was that we were able to operate at electrical currents that are the same as what is used in industry today,” he added.

The researchers tested their system using photovoltaic solar cells as a power source, and said the technology could be readily transferred to existing electrolysis systems to allow them to use salt, rather than purified water.

“One could just use these elements in existing electrolyser systems and that could be pretty quick,” Dai explained.

“It’s not like starting from zero – it’s more like starting from 80 or 90 percent,” he added.


https://www.createdigital.org.au/new-way-extracting-green-hydrogen-seawater/
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #85 - Jul 22nd, 2019 at 2:55pm
 
South Australia is getting on with the inevitable transition to the Hydrogen Energy Revolution with a renewable powered system at Port Lincoln.



Renewable hydrogen power plant to be powered by Baker Hughes generators
Jim Plouffe ADELAIDE Thursday February 07, 2019

...

RENEWABLES
A green hydrogen power plant facility in South Australia is a step closer to completion with announcement of a generator supplier.

Australian hydrogen infrastructure developer H2U confirmed today that it will use Baker Hughes NovaLT gas turbine generators at its South Australian Renewable Hydrogen and Ammonia Supply Chain Demonstrator in Port Lincoln.

H2U won the AUD$117.5 million greentech project a year ago in partnership with German-based thyssenkrupp.

Partially funded by $4.7M in grants and $7.5M in loans from the South Australian Government’s Renewable Technology Fund, the project will integrate new hydrogen technologies, including a 15MW electrolyser plant, a distributed ammonia production facility, and a 10MW hydrogen­fired gas turbine and 5MW hydrogen fuel cell, which will both supply power to the grid.

H2U CEO Dr Attilio Pigneri said NovaLT generators were chosen for the green hydrogen power plant facility because they could operate on 100 per cent hydrogen at all times.

“The annular combustor design and dual-shaft configuration will enable the unit to deliver a best-in-class black-start capability while still operating on 100 per cent hydrogen,” Dr Pigneri said.

“We are impressed by the operating flexibility of the platform and its ability to operate at a low to no-load capacity, then ramp-up very quickly to full load.

“This means we can use the units to support critical loads within the Port Lincoln facility, while also contributing generation to the grid during periods of low wind or solar output. The hydrogen is also produced by the electrolysis plant on site, so we have a truly self-contained solution to firming renewable energy supply within the South Australia grid.”

Dr Pigneri said the cost of hydrogen generated from electrolysis using cheap wind and solar energy was now comparable with the cost of natural gas in South Australia.

“The hydrogen and ammonia demonstrator at Port Lincoln is leading the Australian charge to a 100 per cent renewable hydrogen economy with strong export potential,” he said.

The project is due for completion in 2020 and will be one of the first commercial plants to produce carbon dioxide-free green ammonia from intermittent renewable resources.


Luca Maria Rossi, Chief Technology Officer of Turbomachinery Process & Solutions at BHGE said they would work with H2U to ensure nitrogen oxide emissions were managed within applicable limits.

“South Australia is at the forefront of both renewable generation and hydrogen infrastructure developments and we are very pleased to be able to work with H2U to showcase our products in this important market,” said Rossi.

The green ammonia can be used as an industrial fertiliser for farmers and aquaculture operators.

The Port Lincoln facility is one of 21 projects to receive funding from the South Australian Government’s Renewable Technology Fund, designed to accelerate investment in the next generation of renewable technologies. Other projects include microgrids, virtual power plants, grid-scale batteries, and pumped hydro projects.

http://theleadsouthaustralia.com.au/renewables/baker-hughes-generators-power-ren...

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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #86 - Jul 23rd, 2019 at 3:13pm
 
The world is on a downhill run to embrace the HYDROGEN FUEL REVOLUTION. When will the resale value of the useless electric toy cars plummet ?



Could Hydrogen-Powered Vehicles Eclipse Electric?

...
H2 Van hydrogen powered vehicle

Glasgow-based Emil Rangelov believes that hydrogen-powered vehicles will revolutionise transport and will eventually overtake battery-powered ones.

Emil Rangelov, CEO of HV Systems and HVI Energy, who has been described as Scotland’s answer to Elon Musk, firmly believes that hydrogen-powered vehicles are the future of transport.

Next summer, HV Systems will test run one of its hydrogen-powered prototype vans from Glasgow to London (388-mile journey) without stopping to refuel.

The futuristic-looking eight tonne H2Van emits drinkable water gathered from vapour given off as it runs, making it one of the most environmentally friendly forms of transport.

Rangelov is confident that the van’s trial run will generate considerable interest in hydrogen fuel technology as no other green vehicle is currently able to travel such a distance without having to recharge.

H2Van Enjoys Longer Running and Shorter Refuelling Times
Inside the H2Van is a fuel cell that converts hydrogen and oxygen into water – a process that produces electricity to power the engine. The only other by-product of this process is heat.

The H2Van, which will have a storage capacity of around 20 cubic metres, can travel up to 500 miles on a single tank of hydrogen and has a refuelling time of just six minutes.

Rangelov believes it is these advantages over electric cars that will see hydrogen-powered vehicles overtake battery powered ones. However, he thinks it will take at least 20 years before they become a regular fixture on UK roads.

Purchase Cost of Hydrogen Powered Vehicles Much Higher
The cost of these vehicles is likely to be a barrier to their adoption as each van would cost two or three times more than a diesel equivalent, meaning only large haulage companies could afford them.

Rangelov is quick to note that the running and maintenance costs would be significantly lower meaning the long-term savings would make the vehicle a good investment.

While few car manufacturers in the UK have embraced this technology, its benefits become more apparent with regard to long-distance travel, which makes it ideal for transporting freight.

Delivery businesses have already taken notice of the tech. Courier business CitySprint undertook a six-month trial of a Renault hydrogen van with a range of 200 miles.

The UK Government has also shown support for the technology by investing £8.8 million into the trials of 200 hydrogen-powered vehicles, which will be used by Scotland Yard and car rental companies. Aberdeen has already successfully trialled a fleet of hydrogen powered buses, car club vehicles and taxis.

https://digit.fyi/hydrogen-powered-vehicles/?fbclid=IwAR2cqMOYnsUT_IxLAdwsL69deJ...
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #87 - Jul 23rd, 2019 at 3:21pm
 
While all electric toy cars are in the doldrums as they are pretty useless and dangerous, giant leaps forward are occurring as the world develops the future Hydrogen Energy Revolution.



New material could unlock potential for hydrogen powered vehicle revolution
by Lancaster University MAY 15, 2019

...
Credit: Energy & Environmental Science (2018).

Scientists have discovered a new material that could hold the key to unlocking the potential of hydrogen powered vehicles.

As the world looks towards a gradual move away from fossil fuel powered cars and trucks, greener alternative technologies are being explored, such as electric battery powered vehicles.

Another 'green' technology with great potential is hydrogen power. However, a major obstacle has been the size, complexity, and expense of the fuel systems—until now.

An international team of researchers, led by Professor David Antonelli of Lancaster University, has discovered a new material made from manganese hydride that offers a solution. The new material would be used to make molecular sieves within fuel tanks—which store the hydrogen and work alongside fuel cells in a hydrogen powered 'system'.

The material, called KMH-1 (Kubas Manganese Hydride-1), would enable the design of tanks that are far smaller, cheaper, more convenient and energy dense than existing hydrogen fuel technologies, and significantly out-perform battery-powered vehicles.


Professor Antonelli, Chair in Physical Chemistry at Lancaster University and who has been researching this area for more than 15 years, said: "The cost of manufacturing our material is so low, and the energy density it can store is so much higher than a lithium ion battery, that we could see hydrogen fuel cell systems that cost five times less than lithium ion batteries as well as providing a much longer range—potentially enabling journeys up to around four or five times longer between fill-ups."

The material takes advantage of a chemical process called Kubas binding. This process enables the storage of hydrogen by distancing the hydrogen atoms within a H2 molecule and works at room temperature. This eliminates the need to split, and bind, the bonds between atoms, processes that require high energies and extremes of temperature and need complex equipment to deliver.

The KMH-1 material also absorbs and stores any excess energy so external heat and cooling is not needed. This is crucial because it means cooling and heating equipment does not need to be used in vehicles, resulting in systems with the potential to be far more efficient than existing designs.

The sieve works by absorbing hydrogen under around 120 atmospheres of pressure, which is less than a typical scuba tank. It then releases hydrogen from the tank into the fuel cell when the pressure is released.

The researchers' experiments show that the material could enable the storage of four times as much hydrogen in the same volume as existing hydrogen fuel technologies. This is great for vehicle manufactures as it provides them with flexibility to design vehicles with increased range of up to four times, or allowing them to reducing the size of the tanks by up to a factor of four.


Although vehicles, including cars and heavy goods vehicles, are the most obvious application, the researchers believe there are many other applications for KMH-1.

"This material can also be used in portable devices such as drones or within mobile chargers so people could go on week-long camping trips without having to recharge their devices," said Professor Antonelli. "The real advantage this brings is in situations where you anticipate being off grid for long periods of time, such as long haul truck journeys, drones, and robotics. It could also be used to run a house or a remote neighbourhood off a fuel cell."

The technology has been licenced by the University of South Wales to a spin-out company part owned by Professor Antonelli, called Kubagen.

The research, which is detailed in the paper 'A Manganese Hydride Molecular Sieve for Practical Hydrogen' is being published on the cover and within the printed version of the academic journal Energy and Environmental Science.

https://phys.org/news/2019-05-material-potential-hydrogen-powered-vehicle.html?f...
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #88 - Jul 28th, 2019 at 9:33pm
 
China is not lagging behind in enveloping the rapidly advancing HYDROGEN ENERGY REVOLUTION as an hydrogen powered TRAM trundles by.




HYDROGEN-POWERED TRAM DEVELOPED IN CHINA

...
hydrogen-tram

In an effort to reduce China’s harmful and plentiful greenhouse gas emissions, Chinese company Sifang (a subsidiary of China South Rail Corporation) has developed the world’s first hydrogen powered tram.

The tram took two years of research and development to complete, and will be powered entirely by hydrogen fuel cells. Since this is a tram and not a train, the top speed will only be 70 kilometers per hour and it will be used in urban areas only. It is designed to carry 380 passengers.

The tram will take 3 minutes to refuel and will have a 100 kilometer range. The company says the main benefits for cities will be cleaner air and reduced operation costs. The only emission will be water. It will not produce nitrogen oxides, as the temperature of the fuel cells will be kept under 100 degrees Celcius.


There's even a video



http://www.alternative-energy-news.info/hydrogen-powered-tram/

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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #89 - Jul 29th, 2019 at 8:35am
 
Over in France they are rushing to get on the Hydrogen Train to the FUTURE.




France: Grand Dole District to Open Hydrogen Fueling Station
By FuelCellsWorksMay 16, 2019

...

In the Innovia division (communes of Damparis and Choisey), work began in early last July on the plot of 2,348 m 2 that the Grand Dole acquired from SEDIA (formerly SOCAD). It is here that the first hydrogen fuel distribution station in the region  will soon be commissioned (the closest ones are in Orly and Lyon).

This event will mark a huge step forward in the development of the hydrogen sector promoted by the Agglomeration Community for the last ten years.

Acquired from the Technological University of Belfort – Montbéliard , the station itself (a large container of 6 mx 2.10 m) was installed on October 8 of 2018 and will soon be connected to the entire network. Built as part of a research project, this equipment raises the pressure of the stored gas to allow it to flow to the vehicle. A secure technical room will also be created and the entire site will be under video protection.

Owned by the Grand Dole, the station will be operated by Colruyt via its DATS 24 fuel distribution subsidiary.

A fleet of five vehicles to start with
Hydrogen (less than 100 kilos) will be stored at the station, in bottles. It will recharge the five vehicles La Poste and Inovyn (Kangoo ZE) that run on hydrogen. Until now, the latter had to “refuel” on the industrial site of Tavaux which produces “co-produced” 10,000 tons of hydrogen per year. Other companies in the area will soon be equipped with hydrogen vehicles and become customers of the distribution station.

The site will also host an experimental station through which a consortium of companies and researchers can work towards the development of a less expensive and more scalable distribution system as part of the VHYCTOR project. Hydrogen co-produced by Inovyn can then be used.

In addition, the site will eventually house the premises of the future hydrogen storage institute, the realization of which should be facilitated by the ”  Hydrogen deployment plan, a future tool for the energy transition  “, presented by Nicolas. Hulot, Minister of Energy Transition and Solidarity on June 1 st . This ambitious roadmap is endowed with 100 million euros, released by the State from 2019.

https://fuelcellsworks.com/news/france-grand-dole-district-to-open-hydrogen-fuel...
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #90 - Jul 29th, 2019 at 8:47am
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 21st, 2019 at 6:32pm:
Youliar can't wait for the libbos to rip us on hydrogen deals just like they did with LNP gas. How history repeats Sad

Quote:
The going rate for a kilo of hydrogen in San Diego costs the 6kg capacity Mirai around $120 to fill; the same-size Corolla sedan petrol would cost $77 to fill at $1.40 per litre; and a Tesla S around $30 at 50 cents per Kw (and less at Tesla’s fixed Supercharger price of 35 cents/kW).





When LPG came out it was so cheap.
The Govt then added monster taxes to it
so that it's not worth the trouble.
Would the same happen with hydrogen?

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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #91 - Jul 29th, 2019 at 9:08am
 
Robert,

LPG or propane seemed a good catch cry at the time as it had lower emissions and there was huge supply and it was cheap compared to petrol.

Propane is a three-carbon alkane with the molecular formula C₃H₈. It is a gas at standard temperature and pressure, but compressible to a transportable liquid. A by-product of natural gas processing and petroleum refining, it is commonly used as a fuel. Propane is one of a group of liquefied petroleum gases.
Formula: C3H8
Molar mass: 44.1 g/mol
Boiling point: -42 °C
Density: 493 kg/m³
Melting point: -188 °C
IUPAC ID: Propane

But if you have ever driven an LPG conversion vehicle you would know that they can be a real problem after a while. A loss of power is noticeable. Plus the LPG cylinder in the boot.

The manufactured LPG vehicles like the Falcon were quite good.

But the REAL killer for LPG is the hybrid vehicles from Toyota which have better fuel consumption and are very popular for taxis.

A new problem for LPG only vehicles is that after taxis stopped using LPG service stations are pulling out their LPG bowsers as there is no market anymore.


What is LPG ?

https://www.elgas.com.au/blog/1689-what-is-propane-gas



The forgotten fuel

https://www.elgas.com.au/blog/688-the-forgotten-fuel-autogas-lpg-conversions

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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #92 - Jul 29th, 2019 at 11:42am
 
Bobby. wrote on Jul 29th, 2019 at 8:47am:
Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 21st, 2019 at 6:32pm:
Youliar can't wait for the libbos to rip us on hydrogen deals just like they did with LNP gas. How history repeats Sad

Quote:
The going rate for a kilo of hydrogen in San Diego costs the 6kg capacity Mirai around $120 to fill; the same-size Corolla sedan petrol would cost $77 to fill at $1.40 per litre; and a Tesla S around $30 at 50 cents per Kw (and less at Tesla’s fixed Supercharger price of 35 cents/kW).





When LPG came out it was so cheap.
The Govt then added monster taxes to it
so that it's not worth the trouble.
Would the same happen with hydrogen?



And socko and his mates are waiting to do the same thing with hydrogen but they have overlooked EV's which can be charged up at home from FREE energy from rooftop solar Wink

Yes FREE energy socko !! You'd think the conseratives would be endorsing FREE energy from the sun the way they always talk about savings on electricity bills Cheesy LOL
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« Last Edit: Jul 29th, 2019 at 11:52am by Sir lastnail »  

In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
 
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #93 - Jul 29th, 2019 at 11:55am
 
Hi Nail & Juliar,
why did the taxis stop using LPG?
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #94 - Jul 29th, 2019 at 12:31pm
 
Robert,

Mainly because Ford stopped making Falcons which were the main car used for taxis.

Then the taxis switched over to Toyota Camry Hybrids which use low octane petrol and are more economical than the LPG cars.

Now Toyota hybrids are very popular for city driving where there is lots of slowing and stopping to recharge the battery.

The Camrys are a bit more normal than the Prius.

Out on the highway on long runs the hybrids are no good because with no slowing or stopping the battery goes flat and the engine has to lug the weight of the car and the weight of the passengers and the weight of the heavy flat battery and try to recharge the flat battery. Hence a Prius slows right down.

Now with service stations getting rid of their LPG pumps people who have an LPG only car are getting a bit stressed trying to find a LPG service station.

Maybe they will convert LPG to HYDROGEN in the future when oil gets scarce. Today methane is used to get HYDROGEN.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #95 - Jul 29th, 2019 at 12:36pm
 
juliar wrote on Jul 29th, 2019 at 12:31pm:
Robert,

Mainly because Ford stopped making Falcons which were the main car used for taxis.

Then the taxis switched over to Toyota Camry Hybrids which use low octane petrol and are more economical than the LPG cars.

Now Toyota hybrids are very popular for city driving where there is lots of slowing and stopping to recharge the battery.

The Camrys are a bit more normal than the Prius.

Out on the highway on long runs the hybrids are no good because with no slowing or stopping the battery goes flat and the engine has to lug the weight of the car and the weight of the passengers and the weight of the heavy flat battery and try to recharge the flat battery. Hence a Prius slows right down.

Now with service stations getting rid of their LPG pumps people who have an LPG only car are getting a bit stressed trying to find a LPG service station.

Maybe they will convert LPG to HYDROGEN in the future when oil gets scarce. Today methane is used to get HYDROGEN.



I think you'll find that the LPG was too
expensive after the mega taxes were
added to the price.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #96 - Jul 29th, 2019 at 12:45pm
 
Partly but THE main reason was the end of the Falcon Cars when FORD left Australia.

But back to the HYDROGEN REVOLUTION as Canberra girds its loins.




How Australia Is Looking to Develop a Hydrogen Economy. Policymakers see hydrogen as a key carrier for exporting renewable energy.
JASON DEIGN DECEMBER 19, 2018

...
Could hydrogen become Australia's next export industry?  Photo Credit: Shutterstock

Australia’s first hydrogen test station opened this month amid a wider strategy to use gas as a storage medium for renewable energy.

The station, established by energy provider Evoenergy and the Canberra Institute of Technology at a CIT facility in Fyshwick, a retail and light industry suburb on Canberra’s outskirts, is designed to test the use of pure hydrogen in existing gas infrastructure.

The test results will be used to inform future implementation of hydrogen in the Australian Capital Territory and the rest of the country, CIT said in a press release.

“As this new energy source is set to replace gas, our apprentice plumbers will be trained in how hydrogen will be distributed and connected to homes,” it said.

In November 2017, the Hydrogen Council, a global coalition, issued a report claiming hydrogen could cover 18 percent of the world’s final energy demand by 2050, creating a USD $2.5 trillion industry and 30 million jobs. Australia wants a piece of that action.

The export potential is driving most of the interest in renewable hydrogen development in Australia.

For the exciting rest read here

https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/how-australia-is-looking-to-develop...
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #97 - Jul 30th, 2019 at 1:18pm
 
juliar wrote on Jun 5th, 2019 at 11:46am:
As soon as the looney Greenies like Tweedledee smell HYDROGEN they go berserk.

When will ScoMo swing the subsidy away from the renewable rubbish onto the HYDROGEN FUTURE FUEL ?


You really are a dumb smacking idiot, aren't you...
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #98 - Jul 30th, 2019 at 5:09pm
 
The Sadly Kangyroo hops out of the scrub to continue her HATE session with me.

The mere whiff of HYDROGEN sends these loony Greenies into orbit.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #99 - Jul 30th, 2019 at 10:27pm
 
Too bad it's not safe socko Cheesy LOL

DonDeeHippy wrote on Jun 12th, 2019 at 8:26am:
Hydrogen Fueling Station Explodes: Toyota & Hyundai Halt Fuel Cell Car Sales

Blast was so big it set off airbags in nearby cars.


A hydrogen refueling station exploded and stood in flames yesterday in Sandvika, Norway, which could make June 10, 2019 the day when the perception about hydrogen stations and hydrogen fuel cell cars, in general, will forever change.
According to reports from the Uno-X station, the explosion was huge. It triggered airbags in nearby cars and caused the necessity to close off the busy E18 and E16 intersection. A safety zone of 500 meters was recommended by the fire service.

"“It is probably a tank that has exploded at the hydrogen station next to the police station at Kjorbo,” The Fire Services tells the local newspaper Budstikka."
"“E18 near the site is closed in both directions due to the danger of explosion. The E16 at the Bjornegarden tunnel in Barum is closed for the same reason,” The Road Traffic Central tweets Tweets."

The cause of the explosion is not yet known as it needs to be investigated.

Because of that, Uno-X closed its two other stations with hydrogen in Norway, while carmakers - Toyota and Hyundai - temporarily stopped sales of FCVs (well, only a few per month were usually sold anyway). Owners of FCVs are expected to get loaner cars.


Taking into consideration how few hydrogen refueling stations are installed around the world, with this explosion, the average number of explosions per station will probably be orders of magnitude higher than for any other fuel. Not a good thing if you intend to promote FCVs.
We were often criticizing hydrogen fuel cell cars as a poor alternative for all-electric, because of low energy efficiency, high cost and lack of refueling infrastructure. As the charging times decreased in new BEVs thanks to ultra-fast chargers and the range on a single charge increased, it seemed that FCVs will never have a chance to take off. Any issues with safety (especially if repeated) only adds to the challenge.


Just last week a Hydrogen Plant in Sanfracisco exploded and stopped hydrogen supply there, now this...

The explosion set off airbags in surrounding areas, just lucky no one was refilling.......Hydrogen is a highly flammable liquid under immense pressure (10,000psi)..... Wink


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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #100 - Jul 31st, 2019 at 7:05am
 
Scunge the IGNORANCE VIRUS strikes again to display her utter OFF TOPIC SPAM ignorance and to continue her HATE session with me.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #101 - Aug 1st, 2019 at 10:53am
 
Break the chain to the fool bowser and don't pay $$$ for any stinken gas ! FREE chargups at home for Tesla's and any other electric vehicles. It's a no-brainer only for those with a brain Wink

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Reply #102 - Aug 1st, 2019 at 2:48pm
 
Scunge the IGNORANCE VIRUS strikes again to display her utter OFF TOPIC SPAM ignorance and to continue her HATE session with me. Just how stupid is this creature ?
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #103 - Aug 1st, 2019 at 9:12pm
 
Break the chain to the fool bowser and never pay another cent for any stinken gas ! FREE chargups at home for Tesla's and any other electric vehicles. It's a no-brainer only for those with a brain Wink


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Reply #104 - Aug 1st, 2019 at 9:12pm
 
Scunge the IGNORANCE VIRUS strikes again to display her utter OFF TOPIC SPAM ignorance and to continue her HATE session with me. Just how stupid is this creature ?
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #105 - Aug 1st, 2019 at 9:42pm
 
juliar wrote on Jul 30th, 2019 at 5:09pm:
The Sadly Kangyroo hops out of the scrub to continue her HATE session with me.

The mere whiff of HYDROGEN sends these loony Greenies into orbit.


Child, this is where you're wrong.

Hydrogen is the future.  I actually support it.  Renewable play a big part in harvesting it mind you, but overall, Hydrogen is the future.

The problem is, even when people agree with you, if they don't agree 100%, only say, 90% you'll focus on the 10% that we differ, like you and I, and be a whiney little bitch about it.

So why don't you take your pointless insults directed towards me, one of the few people who would have supported you in this thread if you weren't such a colossal arse hole, and shut the flap up?

You ruin every thread you post in, even if you start it, by being such a cry baby and needing to attack people at every turn.

And that's how you treat people who agree with you... With friends like that...
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #106 - Aug 1st, 2019 at 9:45pm
 
Now you have to wait for socko to find an answer from the net that she can copy and paste. Problem is can't think for itself  Cheesy LOL
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #107 - Aug 1st, 2019 at 9:48pm
 
Scunge the IGNORANCE VIRUS strikes again to display her utter OFF TOPIC SPAM ignorance and to continue her HATE session with me. Just how stupid is this creature ?

I am impressed that the Sadly Kangyroo seems to a good bloke after all. Beauty mate keep going like that and you will be listened to.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #108 - Aug 1st, 2019 at 9:52pm
 
Good thing we don't play the bingo drinking game with Juliar's posts...

Stupid yet poor attempt at an insulting nickname
Petty insult
"OFF TOPIC SPAM"
"HATE SESSION"
Final weak insult usually focusing on intelligence

It's like 90% of the posts you make that aren't just copy and paste jobbies.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #109 - Aug 1st, 2019 at 10:12pm
 
Sadly Kangyroo, why do you even bother coming here ?

Just to vent you spleen on other far more skilled people ?

It is far harder to actually contribute something interesting and relevant to a topic than it is to just slang off at other posters you are jealous of.

But continue on as your hate session is like water on a duck's back to me.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #110 - Aug 1st, 2019 at 10:53pm
 
SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 1st, 2019 at 9:52pm:
Good thing we don't play the bingo drinking game with Juliar's posts...

Stupid yet poor attempt at an insulting nickname
Petty insult
"OFF TOPIC SPAM"
"HATE SESSION"
Final weak insult usually focusing on intelligence

It's like 90% of the posts you make that aren't just copy and paste jobbies.


When it has to think for itself it just hurls abuse and cannot debate a topic without copying and pasting. Totally brainless !
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #111 - Aug 1st, 2019 at 11:05pm
 
The silly fool Ignorance Virus thinks she has found a compatriot.

Now I have 2 silly loony Greenies having HATE Sessions with me because they are so jealous of my obvious superior education, ability, and intelligence that they now worship the ground I walk on and see me as their HERO they would like to emulate.

Unfortunately I couldn't give a damn about such inferior inadequate creatures.

And they will keep following me around like lost puppies hoping some of my brilliance might rub off onto them.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #112 - Aug 1st, 2019 at 11:48pm
 
juliar wrote on Aug 1st, 2019 at 11:05pm:
The silly fool Ignorance Virus thinks she has found a compatriot.

Now I have 2 silly loony Greenies having HATE Sessions with me because they are so jealous of my obvious superior education, ability, and intelligence that they now worship the ground I walk on and see me as their HERO they would like to emulate.

Unfortunately I couldn't give a damn about such inferior inadequate creatures.

And they will keep following me around like lost puppies hoping some of my brilliance might rub off onto them.


what education socko. Please enlighten us ? Cheesy LOL
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #113 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 12:44am
 
Now I have humiliated the silly Greeny fool she just can't stay away from me as I am now her HERO as I am the only one who even acknowledges she exists. Everyone else just ignores her because she is so dumb and thick and dense - a senseless Greeny Climate Warrior.

Bet she comes back to continue her HATE session with me.  It is fun to stir up these inadequate inferior creatures who are so sad.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #114 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 5:58am
 
The threat title got me interested but as I started reading from the beginning it was obvious that it's just another wasted Juliar thread...

The idea of hydrogen as a fuel source is something that will need to be not only a rock-solid technology but able to handle space travel as Mars is so far away, solar can only do so much.  If NASA is able to find frozen water on Mars, there should be enough solar energy to extract the hydrogen from it to use as a fuel source.

I know climate change is a hoax and NASA are the enemy blah blah, but if they were to actually work on this and develop the technology for a Mars trip, we'll all benefit from that here.

But clearly, this isn't a genuine thread which is why I've not bothered to properly engage, very disappointing.
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Reply #115 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 7:00am
 
My Goodness the Sadly Kangyroo is slowly coming around.

The simple FACT that countries all around the world are building up their hydrogen infrastructure would tend to suggest it is not just some silly fad.

Hydrogen is the only viable energy source after oil gets scarce for transport both small and large.

Electric toy cars are dangerous and of very little practical use except for short commuter trips where the user has access to recharge facilities. They have the fundamental problem that if the toy car is loaded up then the lithium battery overheats and then there is a very real risk it might explode into a fiery inferno as has already happened many times.

You may have seen on the TV the pollution problem in Jakarta in Indonesia. This is largely caused by car and diesel truck exhausts and coal power stations. A major cause of pollution is the diesel trucks moving containers from the wharves.

Now large trucks cannot be powered by batteries but they can be powered by hydrogen and so can cars and so can large industrial and mining and agricultural machines.

A simple minded person would say Jakarta needs electric cars but these cause massive pollution when recharging from the coal power stations. The very few people who can recharge with solar panels would make no difference.

In Los Angeles there are hydrogen trucks already being trialed moving containers from the wharves.

Wind and solar farms are basically useless for powering industry but they are quite suitable for powering electrolyzers splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen and this is already being done in Germany and other countries.

Hydrogen can be used to store energy and exported as ammonia. Japan is going full bore to a hydrogen economy and wants to import hydrogen from Australia.

Now I have given you an excellent introduction to the obvious future hydrogen energy revolution. You may choose to mock and knock this if you will but frankly I could not give a damn.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #116 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 8:22am
 
You need to stop your hate on electric cars, especially those people can power from the sun at home.

They aren't the solution to the issues we face with Climate change, BUT, they are part of it.

The problem is when you let ideology get in the way of progress and start making decisions based on bias and opinion rather than reason or facts, you've failed.

Don't be like that.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #117 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 8:25am
 
And speak of the devil err Hydrogen.

...
Hydrogen energy production. These are being built all around the world as it prepares for the oil to hydrogen transition.




Jemena buys electrolyser for NSW as industry eyes mammoth hydrogen opportunities
Michael Mazengarb 31 July 2019

...

Gas retailer Jemena has confirmed the purchase of the first electrolyser in NSW that will trial the ability to convert wind and solar power to zero emissions hydrogen and inject it into the mains gas supply in the state.

Jemena will install the 500kW electrolyser in Western Sydney, where it will supplement some of the existing natural gas supply, potentially as much as 10 per cent, allowing the hydrogen to be used towards cooking, heating and hot water in homes and businesses.

The electrolyser will source wind and solar power, ensuring the hydrogen gas supplied to consumers will effectively be carbon neutral, but there are limits to how much hydrogen can be mixed with the existing gas grid. The differing burn characteristics between hydrogen and methane mean that many household appliances may need modification to run with higher percentages of hydrogen gas.


“We are making a significant investment in technology to demonstrate the network is ready to deliver clean, safe and sustainable green gas to customers,” Jemena’s general manager for strategy and commercial Gabrielle Sycamore said.

“Customers are increasingly looking for sustainable energy solutions, and Jemena believes renewable gases such as hydrogen and biomethane can play an important role in meeting the NSW Government’s objective of net zero emissions by 2050.”

The electrolyser will form part of Jemena’s Western Sydney Green Gas project, which received financial backing from the Australian Renewable Energy Agency, chipping in $7.5 million in grant funding towards the total project investment of $15 million.

The project aims to demonstrate the ability for renewable hydrogen to be “co-mingled” with traditional gas supplies, as well as building the local knowledge base around the production, storage and transportation of hydrogen as energy storage.

The announcement comes with growing optimism being expressed within the clean energy sector of the potential of hydrogen to serve as both an adaptable means of energy storage within Australia and as a clean fuel with enormous export potential.


Speaking at the Australian Clean Energy Summit, head of strategy at Siemens Martin Hablutzel, said that the domestic use of hydrogen in Australia is a good opportunity to build local knowledge around hydrogen projection that could be used as a platform to hydrogen exports.

“It’s hugely important. Building a domestic industry builds out the skills, the technical capability and the capacity to be able to position to develop an export industry of the scale we are talking about,” Hablutzel said.


We could produce hydrogen fairly cheap with renewable energies where the resources are good. But if there is no use for it then there’s really no point. So some of the applications, like green gas injection does help build the deployment  experience and build social acceptance.”

“You learn best by doing,” Hablutzel added.

The Federal Government is currently developing a National Hydrogen Strategy, with an eye to developing the export industry for green hydrogen, recognising the immense potential for Australia to become a major supplier of a zero-emissions fuel, following strong investment from Japan and South Korea in hydrogen vehicles and fuel-cells.

Alison Reeve, who serves as a task force leader on the development of the hydrogen strategy said that a domestic market for hydrogen also has the opportunity to mitigate risks for hydrogen producers.

“If you’ve got domestic off-takers that helps hedge your export offtake risk, with more people you can sell to,” Reeve said.

In his address to the Clean Energy Summit, Australia’s Chief Scientist Alan Finkel, who is currently leading work on the development of the National Hydrogen Strategy, made a case for producing hydrogen from coal and gas resources, providing an additional source of clean energy, provided production is adequately paired with carbon capture and storage.

The suggestion from Finkel was motivated by concerns that wind and solar would not provide a sufficient level of diversity in a decarbonised economy.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/jemena-buys-electrolyser-for-nsw-as-industry-eyes-ma...
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #118 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 8:49am
 
Sadly Kangyroo,
you need to stop your love and lack of knowledge of all electric cars influencing your mind.

In the cities where the pollution problem occurs very few people have the north facing roof and home garage to allow recharge at home. Many park on the street.

So most recharge at recharge stations mostly supplied from coal power stations and so the electric cars pump huge amounts of pollution up the coal station chimney. The Tesla exhaust is at the coal power station.

You don't seem to know much practical details about electric cars and how dangerous the large lithium battery really is especially in the event of a crash as the shock can cause the lithium battery to explode and this has already happened several times.

Even during recharge several electric cars have exploded in a fiery inferno when the battery developed a short in one of the cells and exploded.

Batteries can only power toy cars which can't be used for things such as towing because of the battery overheating.

Now unless you do some research and look beyond the silly Greeny web sites and Quora you will never have any real understanding.

I don't care what you do as I have extensively researched electric cars and I would not even sit in one of these unsafe dangerous toy cars.

And diesel trucks are one of the main cause of pollution and these trucks are large with up to 600HP engines and pull probably about 20 tonnes or more.

Batteries are useless to power such large vehicles and so enter HYDROGEN which easily powers such large unit.

Hope you come up to speed and keep an open mind free from impractical Greeny nonsense.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #119 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 8:55am
 
London is not mucking around as they already have working Hydrogen refuel stations up and running in preparation for the transition to hydrogen when oil gets scarce.



NEW SHELL HYDROGEN FUELLING STATION OPENED AT BEACONSFIELD
27TH MARCH 2018

...
Beaconsfield Hydrogen Station with Shell

ITM Power (AIM: ITM), the energy storage and clean fuel company, notes the announcement by Shell that the hydrogen refuelling station – the first ‘under the canopy’ in the UK – at Beaconsfield Services on the M40 has opened today.

This new hydrogen refuelling station, situated at one of the busiest service stations in the UK, will be fully owned and operated by ITM Power.  The text of the announcement by Shell is set out below:

SHELL AND ITM POWER BOOST UK HYDROGEN INFRASTRUCTURE WITH NEW FUELLING STATION AT BEACONSFIELD

Beaconsfield site is UK’s first ‘under the canopy’ Hydrogen refuelling station

LONDON, UK, 27 March 2018 – Today, Shell has announced the opening of a new hydrogen refuelling station at Shell Beaconsfield in Buckinghamshire. Supplied by ITM Power, this opening follows the launch of the first fully branded and public hydrogen refuelling site in the UK at Shell Cobham in February 2017.

Situated at one of the UK’s busiest service stations, Shell Beaconsfield on the M40 will be the first site in the UK to bring hydrogen under the same canopy as petrol and diesel, providing drivers with a range of fuel choices to co-exist with traditional transport fuels. The hydrogen is generated on-site using an electrolyser that requires only water and electricity to generate the hydrogen gas.

Hydrogen fuel cell electric vehicles convert hydrogen into electricity to power the engine and produce only heat and water when driven. They can travel up to 700 kilometres on a single tank and can be refuelled in a few minutes.

Mike Copson, Hydrogen Business Development Manager at Shell, said: “We’re delighted to be opening a new refuelling site at Shell Beaconsfield, demonstrating our ongoing commitment to hydrogen as a vital part of the UK’s future transport system. Bringing hydrogen under the canopy for the first time is a fantastic step towards making it a convenient and viable fuel choice for UK drivers.”

The hydrogen station at Beaconsfield is the fifth hydrogen refuelling site in the UK to be supplied by ITM Power and will be the first to be opened as part of the H2ME project. The initiative has been partially funded by the European Fuel Cells and Hydrogen Joint Undertaking (FCH JU), and the UK’s Office of Low Emission Vehicles (OLEV).

Dr. Graham Cooley, CEO of ITM Power, said: “ITM Power is pleased to open this new hydrogen station in Beaconsfield which is the first to sit on the main forecourt, alongside the petrol and diesel pumps. This shows a big step forward in offering Shell customers a clean, green fuel, which is generated on-site, eliminating fuel deliveries. We look forward to working alongside Shell to deploy further stations and grow the hydrogen refuelling infrastructure in the UK.”

FCH JU Executive Director Bart Biebuyck said: “The FCH JU is proud to see its support significantly boosting market entry of hydrogen technologies for clean mobility. The opening of this new station at the Beaconsfield forecourt proves that hydrogen is now even more the fuel of the future, and is ready to offer an everyday green solution to citizens. We need to continue building on these achievements, and enable the transition towards a low-carbon transport system.”

Today’s hydrogen station opening follows a number of recent Shell initiatives to support the UK’s transition to low-carbon transport. These include the launch of Shell ReCharge, Shell’s on-forecourt rapid electric vehicle charging service; an agreement with charging network operator IONITY to offer charge points across ten European countries; and the acquisition of NewMotion, one of Europe’s largest electric vehicle charging networks.

http://www.itm-power.com/news-item/new-shell-fuelling-station-opened-at-beaconsf...
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #120 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 8:58am
 
FACTS ABOUT HYDROGEN AS A TRANSPORT FUEL:
• Hydrogen fuel cell electric vehicles (FCEVs) can help reduce emissions and address air pollution while offering convenience for motorists.
o FCEVs are powered by electricity and only produce water vapour, helping to improve local air quality.
o FCEVs do not produce CO2, or other harmful emissions from their tailpipe.
o Hydrogen technology has potential to store energy easily.
o Energy is stored in compressed hydrogen fuel, rather than in a battery.

• In the longer term, hydrogen in transport can help reduce well-to-wheel CO2 emissions from the transport sector if the electricity that creates the hydrogen is generated by renewable technologies such as wind or solar.

• For hydrogen electric transport to succeed, vehicle manufacturers, fuel suppliers and governments need to work together. There is a need for more hydrogen vehicles to be available as well as sufficient refuelling infrastructure to attract customers. Businesses also require incentives to build this infrastructure.


SHELL AND HYDROGEN:
• In addition to two hydrogen sites in the UK, Shell has a growing number of hydrogen sites in California, and is part of a joint venture in Germany which aims to open a network of up to 400 hydrogen sites by 2023. Shell is also assessing the potential of future projects in the United States, Canada, Switzerland, Austria, France, Belgium, Luxembourg and the Netherlands.

• Shell is a founding member of the Hydrogen Council, announced at Davos in January 2017, comprising energy companies, OEMs and technology partners with a collective pledge to accelerate investment in the development and commercialisation of the hydrogen and fuel cell sectors.

For further information please visit www.itm-power.com or contact:




About ITM Power plc
ITM Power manufactures integrated hydrogen energy solutions which are rapid response and high pressure that meet the requirements for grid balancing and energy storage services, and for the production of clean fuel for transport, renewable heat and chemicals.

ITM Power plc was admitted to the AIM market of the London Stock Exchange in 2004. The Company received £4.9m as a strategic investment from JCB in March 2015. The Company signed a forecourt siting agreement with Shell in September 2015.

The Company currently has £33.3m of projects under contract and a further £5.5m of contracts in the final stages of negotiation constituting a total backlog of £38.9m (subject to exchange rate variation).

About the FCH JU
The Fuel Cells and Hydrogen Joint Undertaking (FCH JU) is a unique public-private partnership supporting research, technological development and demonstration activities in fuel cell and hydrogen energy technologies in Europe.

Its aim is to accelerate the market introduction of these technologies, realising their potential as an instrument in achieving a carbon-lean energy system.

The three members of the FCH JU are the European commission; the fuel cell and hydrogen industries, represented by the NEW industry grouping; and the research community, represented by research grouping N.ERGHY.

This project has received funding from the Fuel Cells and Hydrogen Joint Undertaking under grant agreement No 671438.

This joint undertaking receives support from the European Union’s Horizon 2020 research and innovation programme, Hydrogen Europe, and the New European Research Grouping on Fuel Cells and Hydrogen (“N.ERGHY”).
http://www.fch.europa.eu/
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #121 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 10:33am
 
Break the chain to the fool bowser and never pay another cent for any stinken gas ! FREE chargups at home for Tesla's and any other electric vehicles. It's a no-brainer only for those with a brain Wink


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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #122 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 12:22pm
 
juliar wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 8:49am:
Sadly Kangyroo,
you need to stop your love and lack of knowledge of all electric cars influencing your mind.

In the cities where the pollution problem occurs very few people have the north facing roof and home garage to allow recharge at home. Many park on the street.

So most recharge at recharge stations mostly supplied from coal power stations and so the electric cars pump huge amounts of pollution up the coal station chimney. The Tesla exhaust is at the coal power station.

You don't seem to know much practical details about electric cars and how dangerous the large lithium battery really is especially in the event of a crash as the shock can cause the lithium battery to explode and this has already happened several times.

Even during recharge several electric cars have exploded in a fiery inferno when the battery developed a short in one of the cells and exploded.

Batteries can only power toy cars which can't be used for things such as towing because of the battery overheating.

Now unless you do some research and look beyond the silly Greeny web sites and Quora you will never have any real understanding.

I don't care what you do as I have extensively researched electric cars and I would not even sit in one of these unsafe dangerous toy cars.

And diesel trucks are one of the main cause of pollution and these trucks are large with up to 600HP engines and pull probably about 20 tonnes or more.

Batteries are useless to power such large vehicles and so enter HYDROGEN which easily powers such large unit.

Hope you come up to speed and keep an open mind free from impractical Greeny nonsense.


You're just using others criticisms of you back on them.

Such a pathetic waste of time. 

And again, I was the one agreeing with you.

Have fun in your sandpit full of poo.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #123 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 4:50pm
 
Sadly Kangyroo is just another sick Greeny like scunge the Ignorance Virus.

Gosh now that I have humiliated them they will both follow me around like lost puppies spewing their HATE. Classic low intelligence Greenies.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #124 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 6:00pm
 
juliar wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 4:50pm:
Sadly Kangyroo is just another sick Greeny like scunge the Ignorance Virus.

Gosh now that I have humiliated them they will both follow me around like lost puppies spewing their HATE. Classic low intelligence Greenies.


Your continued posts only prove to humiliate yourself and thanks to the spectacular living example of the Dunning-Kruger Effect you don't even know it.  Just keep attacking those, even if they agree with you, keep attacking them personally since you clearly can't address their claims.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #125 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 6:04pm
 
There I was correct. Once you humiliate these loony Greenies they follow you around for years trying to keep their HATE session with you going.

Now I have 2 of these strange creatures following me around like lost puppies hoping I will pay them some attention because they usually just get ignored.  Sad isn't it to see these poor creatures reduced to this.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #126 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 6:21pm
 
Nah mate, I came here to talk about the topic and as usual, you just poo all over the thread and ruined it for everyone.

This is why we can't have nice things...
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #127 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 10:37pm
 
juliar wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 6:04pm:
There I was correct. Once you humiliate these loony Greenies they follow you around for years trying to keep their HATE session with you going.

Now I have 2 of these strange creatures following me around like lost puppies hoping I will pay them some attention because they usually just get ignored.  Sad isn't it to see these poor creatures reduced to this.


then why don't you f.ckoff from this forum and I will guarantee that I will never follow you around again Cheesy LOL
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #128 - Aug 3rd, 2019 at 10:25am
 
Hydrogen has such a fine track record...

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #129 - Aug 4th, 2019 at 2:17pm
 
There I was correct. Once you humiliate these loony Greenies they follow you around for years trying to keep their HATE session with you going.

Now I have 2 of these strange creatures following me around like lost puppies hoping I will pay them some attention because they usually just get ignored.  Sad isn't it to see these poor creatures reduced to this.

The best part is stirring up these disabled creatures to get them frothing at the mouth with good old Greeny HATE.

It is downright weird the way these sub human Greeny creatures become irate when you tell them FACTS because they much prefer the fabricated fiction and half truths and downright lies their impractical Greeny web sites are full of. They like to live in a twilight surrealistic weird of swirling lunacy.


Grappler, the good old Hindenburg story newbies like to trot out.

There is considerable doubt as to what actually happened that day but the hydrogen was contained in a great big leaking cloth bag and the lightning ignited some of the leaking hydrogen and then the cladding of the bag and then the diesel fuel caught alight.

Those days are long gone as hydrogen tanks these days are vastly safer being of a fibrous construction.

The mere fact that hydrogen is widely used in manufacturing these days and is steadily being increasingly used for transport should indicate times have changes dramatically.

What about LPG and LNG tanks that have been used in vehicles for years now ?
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #130 - Aug 5th, 2019 at 5:11am
 
Nobody is following you around, you post topic people are interested in then have a full meltdown if people don't agree with you 100%.

You're on the wrong platform.  Start a blog and disable the comments if you don't want any sort of actual discussion with people who are clearly smarter than you and know more about said and related topics.

A forum isn't for, find a safe space elsewhere princess.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #131 - Aug 5th, 2019 at 6:56am
 
There I was correct. Once you humiliate these loony Greenies they follow you around for years trying to keep their HATE session with you going.

Now I have 2 of these strange creatures following me around like lost puppies hoping I will pay them some attention because they usually just get ignored.  Sad isn't it to see these poor creatures reduced to this.

Now here is the Sadly Kangyroo begging for some attention. This sort of behavior would be hilarious if it wasn't just sad and pathetic.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #132 - Aug 5th, 2019 at 7:06am
 
SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 6:00pm:
juliar wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 4:50pm:
Sadly Kangyroo is just another sick Greeny like scunge the Ignorance Virus.

Gosh now that I have humiliated them they will both follow me around like lost puppies spewing their HATE. Classic low intelligence Greenies.


Your continued posts only prove to humiliate yourself and thanks to the spectacular living example of the Dunning-Kruger Effect you don't even know it.  Just keep attacking those, even if they agree with you, keep attacking them personally since you clearly can't address their claims.


Well said.

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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #133 - Aug 5th, 2019 at 7:30am
 
Well, this thread has again been derailed by Juliar, his own damn thread...

The idea of Hydrogen as a fuel source is exciting, especially if the tech comes from breakthroughs turning martian ice into oxygen and hydrogen using the power of the sun to help a manned mission there be viable, but once you start talking renewables and the reality that Hydrogen as a fuel source would be but a tool in the fight against climate change and not totally replacing electric cars etc, or even acknowledging that climate change is real and man-made, Juliar loses his poo and goes crazy bombing his own thread.

Enjoy yourself mate, this smouldering pile of poo is all yours, I'm out.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #134 - Aug 5th, 2019 at 7:36am
 
There I was correct. Once you humiliate these loony Greenies they follow you around for years trying to keep their HATE session with you going.

Now I have 2 of these strange creatures following me around like lost puppies hoping I will pay them some attention because they usually just get ignored.  Sad isn't it to see these poor creatures reduced to this.

Now here is the Sadly Kangyroo begging for some attention. This sort of behavior would be hilarious if it wasn't just sad and pathetic.

And even old wacko Gweggy is sniffing around for attention.  How on earth could confused Gweggy get to a technical section ? Must be lost.

Whatever is the place coming to with all this illegal OFF TOPIC SPAM loony Greeny HATE session stuff?
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #135 - Aug 7th, 2019 at 2:44pm
 
Brilliant researchers are dotting the I's and crossing the T's as the infrastructure gets put into place for the exciting Hydrogen Energy Revolution.




New sensor could make hydrogen-powered cars safer
Nadine Cranenburgh by Nadine Cranenburgh   April 12, 2019

...
New sensor could make hydrogen-powered cars safer

Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are a promising low-emissions technology, but detecting gas leaks can be challenging. A new sensor could improve the safety of future hydrogen-powered cars.

As trials of hydrogen-powered cars accelerate, researchers have been working to develop gas sensors that can meet the stringent safety standards required to detect leaks.

Because hydrogen molecules are invisible and odour-free, they can be difficult to detect. However, small amounts of hydrogen in the air can lead to the production of flammable Knallgas, so sensors in future hydrogen-powered vehicles will need to be much faster than existing technology.

A team of researchers at Chalmers University of Technology in Sweden have recently developed a plastic-encased hydrogen sensor they believe could fit the bill. According to physicist Ferry Nugroho, his team’s sensor is not only the world’s fastest, but is stable and less likely to deactivate than existing tech. The plastic coating also provides other advantages.

“Unlike today’s hydrogen sensors, our solution does not need to be recalibrated as often, as it is protected by the plastic,” Nugroho explained.

Wrapped in plastic
According to Nugroho’s study, recently published in Nature Materials, the sensor’s plastic coating is not just protective, but key to its operation.

As well as preventing any unwanted molecules from entering and deactivating the sensor, the plastic layer helps the sensor respond faster by increasing the uptake speed of hydrogen gas molecules to the optical nanosensor.

...
The sensor. (Image: Mia Halleröd Palmgren​)

When the level of hydrogen in the environment changes, the metal nanoparticles in the nanosensor illuminate to produce a plasmon of visible light, and the sensor changes colour.

The researchers claim their sensor is capable of detecting 0.1 per cent hydrogen in the air in under a second. This is significantly less than the 4 per cent hydrogen that produces Knallgas, and meets the safety requirements for future cars.

“It feels great to be presenting a sensor that can hopefully be a part of a major breakthrough for hydrogen-powered vehicles. The interest we see in the fuel cell industry is inspiring,” said Professor Christoph Langhammer.

Langhammer added that the technology could also be used to improve the performance of sensors in other applications, such as detecting hydrogen levels in breath to confirm food intolerances.

https://www.createdigital.org.au/sensor-make-hydrogen-powered-cars-safer/
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #136 - Aug 7th, 2019 at 8:51pm
 
What do you call a 25 year old Hydrogen car?
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #137 - Aug 8th, 2019 at 6:40am
 
An old gas goer ?

Dunno but I'm sure you are going to tell everyone.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #138 - Aug 11th, 2019 at 5:34pm
 

Do you realize that the current Toyota Camry hybrid cars are actually testbeds for proving the next generation of the ultimate hydrogen powered cars ?

See the battery and motors and regeneration equipment are similar to that in a hydrogen car.

All they have to do is replace the petrol motor with an hydrogen fuel cell which outputs voltage and wacko there is a hydrogen powered car.


...
Petrol hybrid


...
Hydrogen hybrid

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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #139 - Aug 12th, 2019 at 11:07am
 
Toyota just doesn't get it from the time they scrapped their Toyota RAV4-EV way back in 2000 ! It's already dead in the water with Tesla's recent acquisition of Maxwell ! Check it out. Also comes with Maxwell's super capacitor technology so you can see where they are going with that Wink

It's bad news for socko and his mates as there will be no more fire stories for them to spam the forum with and btw Toyota will be using the same Panasoinc Lithium Ion battery technology that Tesla have been manufacturing under license. The same ones that socko and his mates always whinge about causing fires Cheesy LOL


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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #140 - Aug 12th, 2019 at 5:43pm
 
The silly old Greeny Scunge is such a moronick. How can one creature be so dumb ? Dropped on her head as a child ?
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #141 - Aug 12th, 2019 at 11:18pm
 
juliar wrote on Aug 12th, 2019 at 5:43pm:
The silly old Greeny Scunge is such a moronick. How can one creature be so dumb ? Dropped on her head as a child ?


and which party stopped the production of Toyota hybrid cars in Australia ? The party of dimwits. I guess Abort thought a career in making cups of cofee was more lucrative and beneficial to being a smart nation Sad
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #142 - Aug 13th, 2019 at 7:26am
 
The sad sack Greeny scunge is begging for attention as she feels so rejected and dejected.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #143 - Aug 13th, 2019 at 9:08am
 
The rush to get onto the HYDROGEN ENERGY EVOLUTION increases world wide as each day passes.



KUCHING HYDROGEN-POWERED FUEL CELL BUS
Sarawak Edition February 28 2019

...
Hydrogen will power the world.

A hydrogen fuel cell electric bus is an electric bus that is powered by both hydrogen fuel cell and batteries. The hydrogen fuel cell stored on board the buses provides all of the energy for the vehicle operation, whilst the batteries are able to provide peak power to meet rapid acceleration and gradients. Since the fuel cell generates only water as an emission it will always be a zero emission bus.

The first hydrogen-powered fuel-cell buses began operating in Beijing China on an experimental basis in 2006.

Currently Canada owned and operated the largest fuel-cell bus fleet in the world, having been put in operation for the 2010 Winter Olympics.

In Aberdeen, Scotland, the Aberdeen Hydrogen Bus Project currently operates the largest fleet in Europe.

A total of 62 new zero-emission hydrogen buses will soon be deployed in four cities across Scotland and Germany.

The European Union (EU) H2BusEurope scheme introduced in 2018 includes 600 hydrogen buses and infrastructure worth 40 million Euros.

Under this scheme, by 2020, Denmark alone expects the delivery of 200 hydrogen-powered fuel cell electric buses.

Early this year, Korea announced that it goals are to produce 6.2 million fuel cell electric vehicles and also building 1,200 refilling stations across the country by 2040.

The Korean government plan required 35 hydrogen powered buses to be rolled out this year, this number to be ramped up to 2,000 by 2022 and to 41,000 by 2040.

In Japan, Toyota announced that over 100 units of hydrogen fuel cell buses will be delivered in the Tokyo metropolitan area by 2020 for the Olympic Games.

According to estimates by global consulting firm McKinsey, the number of Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles (FCEVs) in the world could reach 400 million passenger vehicles, 15 million to 20 million trucks, and 5 million buses by 2050.


In December 2017, Sarawak Energy Berhad (SEB) was entrusted by the Sarawak State government to conduct research on hydrogen technology. By end of April this year, SEB will launched the first hydrogen fuelling station in South East Asia (SEA) located in Bintawa, Kuching and will at the same time introduce three units of hydrogen buses on the roads of Kuching city as pilot vehicles as part of the practical fuel cell vehicle trials.

The 3 imported hydrogen-powered buses is a single deck air conditioned type with overall length of 9 meters. The buses will be equipped with 6 units of 40 litres hydrogen cylinders of 50 kW fuel cell modules from Ballard PEM systems. The bus is designed for 19 seats and 13 standing passengers, with space for wheelchair users and a stroller. The bus will be able to carry out a full day’s schedule of 600 KM with maximum speed of 90 KM/H.

Of the three buses, two units will be allocated to Sarawak Tourism Board (STB) to provide as free rides for both locals and tourists and the third unit will be used by Sarawak Economic Development Corporation (SEDC) for SEDC’s hotels free bus shuttles.

Whilst most of the industrial hydrogen used in the world today are produced mainly from natural gas, however, Sarawak hydrogen production for its hydrogen buses refuelling stations are hydrogen produce through the electrolysis of water, using electricity from renewable energy from our hydro power dam for zero carbon sources. When hydrogen produced via these routes, the hydrogen fuel cell buses and SUVs offers a completely zero carbon solution to public transport.

https://www.facebook.com/sarawakedition/?__tn__=%2Cd%2CP-R&eid=ARCKalwCub8VmrceS...
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #144 - Aug 13th, 2019 at 9:28am
 
Smell the fear socko Cheesy LOL

Another stroke of genius on Elon Musks behalf. A true visionary Wink



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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #145 - Aug 13th, 2019 at 9:33am
 
The sad sack loony Greeny scunge is begging for attention as she feels so rejected and dejected. Was she dropped on her head as a child ?
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #146 - Aug 13th, 2019 at 10:10am
 
...
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #147 - Aug 13th, 2019 at 11:26am
 
The sad sack loony Greeny scunge is begging for attention as she feels so rejected and dejected. Was she dropped on her head as a child ?

It certainly looks like it because how else could this creature become so weird ?
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #148 - Aug 14th, 2019 at 10:34am
 
Don't you just admire Elon Musk for not sitting on his arse and making excuse after excuse not to do or change anything like the LNP does in Australia ??

...
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #149 - Aug 15th, 2019 at 1:08pm
 
The smell of hydrogen makes scunge the loony Greeny go troppo. Then it is fairly certain she was dropped on her head as a child and now she is mad as a 2 bob watch and not the full quid.

Sort of like the Aboriginies smelling petrol.

Maybe it is time for the MOD to intervene on all this illegal OFF TOPIC SPAM.
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Reply #150 - Aug 15th, 2019 at 1:17pm
 
But ignoring the stupid scunge fool and back to the topic.

Germany is already on the way to the future HYDROGEN ENERGY REVOLUTION.




1MW fuel cell for German bus hydrogen production
October 23, 2018 //By Nick Flaherty

...
1MW fuel cell for German bus hydrogen production

Hydrogenics in Canada is to supply a large-scale fuel cell electrolysis system to generate hydrogen at a fueling station in Germany.

The proton exchange membrane (PEM) will be supplied to Maximator, a compressor manufacturer that is building a one megawatt facility in Wuppertal to produce hydrogen for 10 new fuel cell buses operated by WSW, the local public transit company.

Surplus energy generated by a local waste incinerator will be used to power the electrolyzer and generate the hydrogen. The Hydrogenics system will be delivered during 2019 and produce over 400 kilograms of hydrogen per day.

“We are pleased that our advanced PEM electrolyzers continue to be chosen for important and high-profile city transit applications such as this,” said Daryl Wilson, President and CEO of Hydrogenics. “Whether providing clean fuel for buses in Germany or elsewhere, Hydrogenics continues to be a leader across the hydrogen-powered, heavy-duty mobility landscape.”

Rene Himmelstein, Vice President of Maximator, added, “We are very proud to be able to carry out such a promising and market-leading project in the hydrogen sector. With Hydrogenics, we are building on a supplier who can deliver reliable electrolyzer technology for this major project.”

Hydrogenics, based in Mississauga, Ontario, supplies hydrogen generation, energy storage and hydrogen power modules around the world and has manufacturing sites in Germany, Belgium and Canada as well as service centres in Russia, Europe, the US and Canada.

https://www.smart2zero.com/news/1mw-fuel-cell-german-bus-hydrogen-production
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #151 - Aug 15th, 2019 at 1:17pm
 
Germany is joining the headlong rush into the HYDROGEN ENERGY REVOLUTION with a biggy this time pumping out huge quantities of clean beautiful hydrogen.

Hydrogen is such an obvious replacement for petrol. Already Toyota with the Camry hybrid is only a small step away from the Hydrogen hybrid.

The junk yards will soon be full of the dangerous unsafe pollution spewing very inconvenient electric toy cars.





German energy grids say plans ready for 100MW hydrogen plant
FEBRUARY 12, 2019 / 2:53 AM / 6 MONTHS AGO

FRANKFURT (Reuters) - German power and gas grid firms Amprion and Open Grid Europe (OGE) said on Monday they would shortly apply to build the country’s first large hydrogen plant that can convert windpower to alternative fuels that are easier to store and transport.

The 100 megawatt (MW) power-to-gas (ptg) plant to be called “hybridge” can start operations from 2023 at Lingen in Germany’s windy north-west, the firms said in statements presented at a Berlin news conference.

Grid companies had already been looking to cope with separate government targets, set a year ago, to nearly double the share of wind and solar power to 65 percent of electricity generation by 2030.

These targets are certain to overstretch transport capacity on traditional power cables by then, which makes it necessary to build energy storage solutions close to where green power is produced.

Ptg technology, which entails running electricity through water to split it into oxygen and hydrogen, which then can be used as a transport fuel, or stored in gas pipelines or underground caverns, is expected to provide answers.

“Germany’s climate targets, the withdrawal from nuclear energy, and the concrete-looking exit from coal present big challenges to our energy system,” said Amprion board member Klaus Kleinekorte.

“We have to create conditions now to have power-to-gas (ptg) technology ready in the gigawatt (GW) dimension by 2030, so that we arrive at a system where we can couple different energy sectors.”

The energy regulator, the Bundesnetzagentur, will need to approve the application to build the plant and recover an estimated 150 million euros ($169.58 million) investment costs from grid fees that consumers pay as part of their energy bills.

A national coal exit commission on Jan. 26 made specific recommendations that gas infrastructure, and with it ptg, are to be promoted to incentivise alternative fuels for industry, heat and transport.

Germany has been experimenting with ptg technology since the last decade and is home to around 40 ptg pilot projects, but the biggest so far only measures 6 MW.

Lingen, where Amprion grids converge with OGE pipelines, houses hydrogen distribution facilities, gas storage caverns and pipelines running to the Ruhr region, that could be converted to carrying hydrogen rather than retire in the long term.

Reporting by Vera Eckert, editing by Emelia Sithole-Matarise

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-amprion-opengrideurope-hydrogen/german-energy...
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #152 - Aug 15th, 2019 at 1:18pm
 
scunge fence to keep the loony wacko scunge Greeny out.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #153 - Aug 16th, 2019 at 10:37am
 
You're an idiot !
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #154 - Aug 16th, 2019 at 11:42am
 
The scunge fence kept the loony wacko Greeny scunge out. She is mad as a 2 bob watch and is not the full quid. Was she dropped on her head as a child ? Certainly would explain her bizarre behavior.
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Reply #155 - Aug 23rd, 2019 at 11:42am
 
But ignoring the useless Greeny irrelevancy and back to the topic.

And the whole world is now rushing to get the future HYDROGEN ENERGY REVOLUTION up and going.

Hundreds of brilliant researchers are tying up the loose ends and dotting the Is and crossing the Ts to finalize the infrastructure and generation design which will take over as oil gets eventually scarce.

Australia is poised to become a Hydrogen exporter to the world. It is truly exciting.





Our most abundant energy source that doesn’t emit greenhouse gases
Mike Bruce 10:44pm, Aug 22, 2019 Updated: 8:02pm, Aug 22

...
Hydrogen fuel of the future. A hydrogen plant at Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada. Photo: Getty


It’s the most abundant element in the world. It can fuel vehicles, homes and power-intensive industries. It could be half the cost of electricity within 30 years. And it produces zero carbon emissions.

That fuel is hydrogen. And the question is: Why aren’t we using it now?


In an address in Melbourne on Friday, Australia’s chief scientist Dr Alan Finkel will update business leaders on the case for a hydrogen market in Australia and what needs to happen to make it viable.

It may well be music to the ears of the business audience, after a report on hydrogen generation by the World Energy Council branded Australia as a “giant with potential to become a world key player”.

Dr Finkel’s address also coincides with a report by Bloomberg on Thursday that contended the cost of producing hydrogen using renewable energy was likely to plummet over the next few years, making “one of the most radical technologies for reducing greenhouse gases” economical.

The analysis by Bloomberg New Energy Finance (BNEF) found the falling cost of extracting hydrogen gas from water and better economies of scale could reduce the cost of hydrogen power to as little as $US24 ($35.50) a megawatt-hour by 2030, and $US15 ($22) by 2050.

That’s less than half the prevailing cost for electricity in the wholesale market in Europe.
“While the gas has been hailed for decades as a carbon-free energy source, the cost and difficulty of making it has confined it mainly to niches, like fuelling rockets and helping upgrade blends of oil,” the report said.

“Once the industry scales up, renewable hydrogen could be produced from wind or solar power for the same price as natural gas in most of Europe and Asia,” BNEF reported.

“These production costs would make green gas affordable and puts the prospects for a truly clean economy in sight.”



On top of the World Energy Council’s endorsement of Australia, the International Energy Agency has also predicted that Australia could  produce an equivalent amount of hydrogen to two-thirds of its current energy consumption.

“Capitalising on this growing demand for hydrogen could result in an export industry worth $1.7 billion by 2030, and could provide 2800 jobs,” Dr Finkel said in a briefing note in July.

“Most of the jobs created by this new industry are likely to be in regional areas.”

Victorian energy company Jemena has begun a five-year, $15 million trial (with the Australian Renewable Energy Agency) using solar energy to convert water into hydrogen using renewable energy.




That hydrogen can then be stored in underground gas pipes, with the potential to store the equivalent of eight million Tesla Powerwall batteries, according to a company statement.

The New Daily contacted Jemena for further details, but it did not respond before deadline.

Dr Finkel said not only would the energy storage capabilities of hydrogen contribute to the resilience of our electricity systems, it could also provide a long-range, rapid-fuelling, zero-emissions transport fuel.

It also has the potential to become an export commodity worth up to $13.5 billion a year by 2040, according to a report by ACIL Allen consultants.

So why aren’t we lapping it up?

The first hurdle is scale.
A 2019 issues paper by the COAG Energy Council’s National Hydrogen Strategy noted that while production, transport and storage technology exists “these technologies are yet to be tested at scale”.

Another is infrastructure.
Toyota Australia president and chief executive Matt Callachor told The New Daily in April: “Right now, the biggest factor to the success of hydrogen being widely available is a lack of infrastructure.”

hydrogen the fuel of the future

That story noted the first commercial station is due to open in Canberra before the end of 2019, with at least another 19 expected to open over the next few years.


That COAG report said while there is existing gas infrastructure that can be used for hydrogen, it added a viable industry would still need more electricity generation, electricity and gas networks, transport infrastructure as well as hydrogen production, storage and transport technology.

The other issue is production and supply chain costs.

Hydrogen produced from renewable energy is “currently expensive”, the COAG report found.

But development of less costly materials, design changes and economies of scale in manufacturing are all expected to bring the costs down.

https://thenewdaily.com.au/money/finance-news/2019/08/22/hydrogen-key-reducing-c...
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Reply #156 - Aug 23rd, 2019 at 11:42am
 
Fence to keep the Greeny scunge away.
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Reply #157 - Aug 23rd, 2019 at 3:13pm
 
What a dickhead. Me thinks you are a grease monkey used to ripping off the punters on oil changes and are now terrified of losing your livelihood to electric vehicles. No amount of whining about it on this forum is going to change the huge momentum built up in electric vehicles !

Smell the fear socko ! The day of reckoning is ever closer Cheesy LOL
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Reply #158 - Aug 25th, 2019 at 5:17pm
 
The pathetic failure the Greeny scunge is just begging to be noticed. But she is just too stupid and ignorant and uneducated and so she is normally avoided and ignored by normal people.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #159 - Aug 26th, 2019 at 9:07am
 
juliar wrote on Aug 25th, 2019 at 5:17pm:
The pathetic failure the Greeny scunge is just begging to be noticed. But she is just too stupid and ignorant and uneducated and so she is normally avoided and ignored by normal people.


you mean normal people like yourself Cheesy LOL

you're an idiot socko. you're just another dumb as dogshit do-nothing LNP voter !
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Reply #160 - Aug 26th, 2019 at 2:34pm
 
The silly uneducated Greeny scunge is suffering from Hydrogen Phobia.  Is scunge a member of GetUp! ?  Is she on Newstart ?   Is she receiving treatment for her condition ?
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Reply #161 - Sep 1st, 2019 at 11:31am
 
Hydrogen cars are bullshit and here is why !! Lets see socko refute the arguments without copy and pasting Cheesy LOL

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Reply #162 - Sep 1st, 2019 at 5:02pm
 
The world is faltering under the West & China's empowerment.
Their Mind can't produce anything towards a 'better' future - because they are the perpetrators of the 'stuffed up' past and are 'shackled' like Convicts to it. Unable to move forward with any great technological achievement beyond the small or mundane.


Australia (Azlaroc) uses 'Atomic' power Wink
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Reply #163 - Sep 2nd, 2019 at 1:43pm
 
The boring dreary Greeny scunge is emitting smelly ignorance pollution in great quantities. Scunge emits more methane than carbon dioxide.
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Reply #164 - Sep 2nd, 2019 at 1:59pm
 
No one turns up to the hydrogen fool bowser that is how popular hydrogen cars are Cheesy LOL


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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #165 - Sep 2nd, 2019 at 2:44pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 2nd, 2019 at 1:59pm:
No one turns up to the hydrogen fool bowser that is how popular hydrogen cars are Cheesy


Yeah EV's are really popular.

"According to the V-facts data published by the Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries (FCAI), 1352 electric vehicles were registered in Australia in 2018 – not including Tesla, which may account for that amount again.

This represents a paltry 0.3 per cent of total sales,, assuming a hefty Tesla number. and compares to sale figures in other countries which have topped 50 per cent in recent months in Norway and were more than 5 per cent in the US."

"According to internal data shared with The Driven last year, Tesla sold 1,410 Model S and Model X cars in 2017 – we have not at this time been able to confirm sales figures for Tesla in 2018 but if the EV maker at least matched its 2017 figures then its safe to say that there were somewhere in the vicinity of 2,700 EVs total sold last year.'

https://thedriven.io/2019/02/18/v-facts-2018-ev-sales/
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #166 - Sep 2nd, 2019 at 3:11pm
 
lee wrote on Sep 2nd, 2019 at 2:44pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 2nd, 2019 at 1:59pm:
No one turns up to the hydrogen fool bowser that is how popular hydrogen cars are Cheesy


Yeah EV's are really popular.

"According to the V-facts data published by the Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries (FCAI), 1352 electric vehicles were registered in Australia in 2018 – not including Tesla, which may account for that amount again.

This represents a paltry 0.3 per cent of total sales,, assuming a hefty Tesla number. and compares to sale figures in other countries which have topped 50 per cent in recent months in Norway and were more than 5 per cent in the US."

"According to internal data shared with The Driven last year, Tesla sold 1,410 Model S and Model X cars in 2017 – we have not at this time been able to confirm sales figures for Tesla in 2018 but if the EV maker at least matched its 2017 figures then its safe to say that there were somewhere in the vicinity of 2,700 EVs total sold last year.'

https://thedriven.io/2019/02/18/v-facts-2018-ev-sales/


and how many hydrogen cars ?? Cheesy LOL

Watch the video. There are over 150,000 electric cars in Norway and they are not griselling like you deadbeats are before you have even owned one. And Tesla EV's are not for your average commuter used to buying a Toyota Yaris.
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Reply #167 - Sep 2nd, 2019 at 5:52pm
 
The smell of the ignorance emitting from the sick Greeny Scunge is overpowering. even for a dumb Greeny she is a failure.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #168 - Sep 2nd, 2019 at 5:53pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 2nd, 2019 at 3:11pm:
Watch the video. There are over 150,000 electric cars in Norway and they are not griselling like you deadbeats are before you have even owned one.



Yes. Norway has a large number. What was the size of Norway again? Wink

Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 2nd, 2019 at 3:11pm:
And Tesla EV's are not for your average commuter used to buying a Toyota Yaris.


And that's why the never put in Tesla's but guessed at them.

"The annual new car sales figures for 2018 have been released today, showing that Australians bought 1,153,111 new vehicles last year, representing a drop of around three per cent."

https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/australian-new-car-sales-drop-in-2...

"1352 electric vehicles were registered in Australia in 2018 – not including Tesla"

So EV's minu sTesla's totalled 1352/1153111 so 0.12%.
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Reply #169 - Sep 2nd, 2019 at 6:51pm
 
And how many of these dangerous unsafe pollution spewing very inconvenient Tesla toy cars have already crashed and are in the junk yards already ?


And how most of these dangerous unsafe electric toy cars end up in the junk yards


...
Yet another Tesla X that couldn't stop.

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Reply #170 - Sep 2nd, 2019 at 7:51pm
 
I love the smell of a small Atomic generator.

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #171 - Sep 2nd, 2019 at 11:28pm
 
lee wrote on Sep 2nd, 2019 at 5:53pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 2nd, 2019 at 3:11pm:
Watch the video. There are over 150,000 electric cars in Norway and they are not griselling like you deadbeats are before you have even owned one.



Yes. Norway has a large number. What was the size of Norway again? Wink

Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 2nd, 2019 at 3:11pm:
And Tesla EV's are not for your average commuter used to buying a Toyota Yaris.


And that's why the never put in Tesla's but guessed at them.

"The annual new car sales figures for 2018 have been released today, showing that Australians bought 1,153,111 new vehicles last year, representing a drop of around three per cent."

https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/australian-new-car-sales-drop-in-2...

"1352 electric vehicles were registered in Australia in 2018 – not including Tesla"

So EV's minu sTesla's totalled 1352/1153111 so 0.12%.


No one give s a flying bugger about this puny gathering of people. The average uptake of EV's in other countries is typically 2% which is 10x the amount of Australia. If the LNP had half a brain it could create a proper renewable energy industry which also includes electric cars and charging infrastructure but instead it prefers to put the energy industry in the hands of scam artists run by its mates who pester everyone each day, cold calling them with fake offers of discounts when in reality those pricks should not even have a job Sad

It's a case of fake jobs from a fake inept backward thinking government Sad
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Reply #172 - Sep 3rd, 2019 at 1:10am
 
Totally outclassed and outwitted the slow witted loony Greeny Scunge just emits some more smelly ignorance pollution in a methane cloud.

And inspecting the Tesla toy cars in the junk yard.


...
A whompy back wheel that fell off when the faulty rear suspension broke crashed this Tesla X.

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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #173 - Sep 3rd, 2019 at 9:20am
 
juliar wrote on Sep 3rd, 2019 at 1:10am:
Totally outclassed and outwitted the slow witted loony Greeny Scunge just emits some more smelly ignorance pollution in a methane cloud.

And inspecting the Tesla toy cars in the junk yard.


https://cs.copart.com/v1/AUTH_svc.pdoc00001/PIX169/22f6ab29-c302-45f5-be2e-ff009...
A whompy back wheel that fell off when the faulty rear suspension broke crashed this Tesla X.



what you never seen a car from a car accident socko ?

Wrecking yards are full of them socko Cheesy LOL
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Reply #174 - Sep 3rd, 2019 at 2:21pm
 
My God this loony Greeny Scunge is an idiotic fool.  She is definitely impaired.


...
And a whompy wheel falls off as the faulty suspension breaks and crashes another dangerous unsafe Tesla S.


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Reply #175 - Sep 3rd, 2019 at 4:48pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 2nd, 2019 at 11:28pm:
No one give s a flying bugger about this puny gathering of people.



Except when it comes to Climate ChangeTM. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Reply #176 - Sep 3rd, 2019 at 5:45pm
 
Silly loony Greeny Scunge is definitely mentally retarded.
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Reply #177 - Sep 4th, 2019 at 11:03am
 
Hydrogen cars are so popular. See all of the people queuing up for miles to fill up their invisible hydrogen cars Cheesy LOL

[/quote]
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Reply #178 - Sep 4th, 2019 at 12:47pm
 
Silly loony creepy Greeny Scunge is definitely not the full quid. She should be in the loony bin.
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Reply #179 - Sep 10th, 2019 at 8:39pm
 
What would be hilarious is a hydrogen powered tow truck pulling a broken down electric toy car into the junk yard.




What will it take to make hydrogen the clean fuel of the future?
By Rachael BrownSeptember 10, 2019Climate change resilience

...
Hygrogen the magic fuel of the future

renewable energy exports as hydrogen
Interest in hydrogen as a source of clean energy has risen in recent years, and engineers have a key role in scaling up technology to help Australia fulfil its potential as a major exporter.
According to Chief Scientist Dr Alan Finkel, a keynote speaker at the upcoming World Engineers Convention, Australia has all of the key ingredients needed to make and export hydrogen.

“We’ve got the land, the sun, the wind, the coal and gas, the technology smarts, the regional hubs, the global networks and the industry expertise,” he said.

Finkel added that clean hydrogen technologies could also help reduce emissions on the home front. For example, hydrogen-powered trucks, trains and ships could meet the growing demand for zero-emissions transport.

Hydrogen could also replace liquified natural gas (LNG) in domestic and industrial heating, which has the potential to cut emissions and reduce energy bills at a greater rate than electrification.

And engineers will have a key role in making hydrogen a viable energy source for both local use and export.

“The key challenges here are to get to scale, bring down production and utilisation costs and improve efficiencies – these are all the bread and butter of engineers,” Finkel explained.

Why now?
As well as a zero-emissions energy alternative to coal, oil and natural gas, hydrogen can be used as a feedstock for industrial chemistry.

And while this isn’t the first time the world has gotten excited about a hydrogen revolution, Finkel said current interest is being driven by factors including rapidly falling production costs, as well as hydrogen fuel cell transport options such as the Toyota Mirai and Hyundai Nexo, which are starting to compete with petrol-fuelled vehicles in terms of cost, efficiency and performance.

...
Vehicles powered by hydrogen fuel cells offer benefits like faster charging compared to electric vehicles.

“This isn’t the first time the world has been interested in hydrogen. But I can tell you that this time it is different,” he added.

Another driver is that energy-intensive countries such as South Korea and Japan do not have the capacity to generate enough clean and renewable electricity to meet their needs.

“These countries will be looking to import zero-emissions energy. This is where clean hydrogen comes into the picture,” Finkel said.

Japan has already made a strong commitment to importing hydrogen from Australia. Construction has recently begun on a government-backed joint venture between Japanese and Australian industry to prove the technology to liquefy hydrogen produced from brown coal in Victoria’s Latrobe Valley and ship it to Japan, although carbon capture and storage will be needed to prevent increased local emissions if the trial is scaled up to commercial proportions.

It won’t happen overnight
Finkel said that turning this opportunity into a real-world transformation will require both the production and use of hydrogen to be significantly scaled up.

“This is not something that can happen overnight. It is a journey to be navigated with patience, innovation and determination. We will need to build out gradually, learning and recalibrating along the way,” he added.

But Finkel believes that Australia has what it takes to build a large-scale hydrogen industry, citing the three decades of work that has put Australia in a position to surpass Qatar as the world’s leading exporter of LNG.

To help the country fulfil its potential, Finkel is leading the development of a national hydrogen strategy commissioned by the Coalition of Australian Governments Energy Council (COAG), which is due for release in December .

...
Dr Alan Finkel, Australia’s Chief Scientist

The strategy is focused on six areas: hydrogen exports; hydrogen for transport; hydrogen in the gas network; hydrogen for industrial users; hydrogen to support electricity systems; and issues such as safety, finance, and research and development (which could affect the other five areas).

In July, the Hydrogen Working Group released nine issues papers that focus on various aspects of the emerging industry, which has already attracted more than $100 million in Federal Government funding. Finkel said these papers provide some indication of what the final strategy will look like, and will provide more details during his WEC keynote in November, when the strategy is closer to completion.

Read a bit more of the exciting future here

https://www.wec2019.org.au/2019/09/10/make-hydrogen-viable-clean-fuel-energy-exp...
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Reply #180 - Sep 11th, 2019 at 5:02pm
 
Hydrogen cars are so popular. See all of the people queuing up for miles to fill up their invisible hydrogen cars Cheesy LOL



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Reply #181 - Sep 12th, 2019 at 8:35pm
 
Help! Look out!! the loony creepy Greeny Scunge has escaped from the Loony Bin!!!
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Reply #182 - Sep 17th, 2019 at 11:03am
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 11th, 2019 at 5:02pm:
Hydrogen cars are so popular. See all of the people queuing up for miles to fill up their invisible hydrogen cars Cheesy LOL





Unless the hydrogen can be generated using renewable energy hydrogen cars still cause the same pollution as other cars. Since they are a form of ICE then they spew out nitrous oxide like petrol/diesel cars.

Totally pointless. EVs are the future.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #183 - Sep 17th, 2019 at 12:06pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 17th, 2019 at 11:03am:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 11th, 2019 at 5:02pm:
Hydrogen cars are so popular. See all of the people queuing up for miles to fill up their invisible hydrogen cars Cheesy LOL





Unless the hydrogen can be generated using renewable energy hydrogen cars still cause the same pollution as other cars. Since they are a form of ICE then they spew out nitrous oxide like petrol/diesel cars.

Totally pointless. EVs are the future.


It depends on what you environmental concerns are.  EV create a lot of pollution in the form of their production and their batteries, but it's not Carbon.  They also have a lot of limitations with range etc, which I'm sure will continue to improve, but at what cost (again the waste products from the batteries etc).

I don't think there is any one size fits all solution.  Today, EVs are the way to go.  Tomorrow, if we can reliably source the hydrogen, it's the way to go.

But none are without any downsides.  There were food supply concerns when ethanol started increasing in popularity because it was worth more as a fuel source to the supplies than as food.

That's all changes now, but what other consequences would there be to HV?

Water is already far too precious for life, let alone needing it for refining into a fuel source.  Yes, there are prototypes that use sea water rather than freshwater but knowing us humans, do we really need to put the our seas in even more stress?

I don't think we should be arguing about which tech is the best, why can we support the best tech for the best solution, even if it's a mixture of both?
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #184 - Sep 17th, 2019 at 6:03pm
 
What is the Munk from the GetUp! Propaganda Site doing here ? Snooping and polluting the joint with his ridiculous Greeny GetUp! propaganda rubbish ?

And of course Skippy the Greeny Kangyroo is ignored.
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Reply #185 - Sep 17th, 2019 at 7:10pm
 
SadKangaroo is worth 100 YouLiars.
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Reply #186 - Sep 18th, 2019 at 9:46am
 
Munk you were useless and hopeless here with your silly Greeny and GetUp! puerile trash before you got suspended.

You have not improved at all.

Your GetUp! Propaganda Site is just a tragic failure where you delete any post that rubbishes your wonky Greeny and GetUp! notions and your Global Warming HOAX and your Climate Change SCAM.

Hopefully you won't hang around for long.
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Reply #187 - Sep 18th, 2019 at 3:33pm
 
Oh I intend to be here 20 hours a day every day! I suffer cruelly from insomnia anyway.

You know nothing.

You cannot argue.

You make up names for people who best you in argument that show you are not just gay but mentally retarded, like you are 12 or 13.

You add no value to any forum.
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Reply #188 - Sep 18th, 2019 at 3:54pm
 
Munk when you were here before you got suspended you were good for a laugh and good for a stir but after that you were just painful as your useful knowledge is very small and your ability to understand is virtually non existent.

What did you get suspended for ? Some sort of hostility I vaguely seem to recall.

Gee if I was silly enough to go to your GetUp! Propaganda Site I would get a pretty rough ride with certain suspension.

Do you think you will ever be able to see that the Global Warming HOAX and the Climate Change SCAM are just the sick Socialists trying a last ditch stand to get their One World Govt in a Sustainable Earth going as everything else has failed.

But I suspect you are too far gone to ever be able to see the TRUTH.

Why are you over here ? Is your sick GetUp! Propaganda Site so boring that you are here to get stirred up and humiliated a bit ?
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Reply #189 - Sep 18th, 2019 at 4:24pm
 
Just trot away and go play in your sandpit.
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Get the vaxx! 💉💉

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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #190 - Sep 18th, 2019 at 4:50pm
 
Munk you must feel unwelcome here.

Bet you wish you could delete stuff here like you do on your sick GetUp! Propaganda Site.

Do you think your insomnia is caused by the cherry wine you make ?
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #191 - Sep 18th, 2019 at 6:01pm
 
I feel welcomed, valued and cherished here.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #192 - Sep 18th, 2019 at 6:09pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 18th, 2019 at 6:01pm:
I feel welcomed, valued and cherished here.


It's nice to have someone else here who isn't so afraid of reality they have to create a safe space bubble of lies around themself, like some...
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #193 - Sep 18th, 2019 at 6:17pm
 
Heh!
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #194 - Sep 19th, 2019 at 10:23am
 
Munkee you were silly as a wheel when you were here before until you got suspended to the great relief of all and you are even more childish now.

Do you think the cherry wine you make is affecting our mind ?

How long will it be before you blow a gasket and get suspended again ?
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #195 - Sep 19th, 2019 at 10:41am
 
Now ignoring the idiotic childish dribble from the inferiority complex Munkee and back to the TOPIC.

How appropriate, after this puerile trash a Hydrogen powered Rubbish truck. It might take Munkee away ?




First hydrogen-powered rubbish trucks
By Molly Burgess 13 April 2019

Baetsen-Groep and Cure Afvalbeheer will now begin collecting waste with a hydrogen refuse collection vehicle, built by E-Trucks Europe, in the Eindhoven region.

The vehicles were presented on 11th April (2019) at the Veldhoven City hall in the presence of the sustainability councillors of the Eindhoven Metropolitan Region.

The demonstration is the first in a series of ten in European cities. The rubbish trucks were built by E-Trucks Europe with support from Hydrogenics.

...
Hydrogen powered garbage trucks.. Source: WaterstofNet

Both hydrogen vehicles are the first in Europe (together with a truck in Groningen), which received an official license plate and registration, and will be involved in daily waste collection operations.

The construction and demonstration of these garbage trucks is part of the Life ‘N Grab Hy! project that is coordinated by WaterstofNet.

Garbage trucks powered by hydrogen are zero-emission and silent. After collecting waste for two days, the vehicle is refuelled again in ten minutes at the WaterstofNet service station on the Automotive Campus in Helmond.

...


https://www.gasworld.com/first-hydrogen-powered-rubbish-trucks-/2017007.article


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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #196 - Sep 19th, 2019 at 11:52am
 
Bad luck socko Cheesy LOL

This totally electric garbage truck made by BYD of china has beaten you to the mark  Wink Already in operation around the world Wink

Recharge from FREE rooftop solar energy at the depot. Never pay another cent for anyone else's stinken energy Wink



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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
 
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #197 - Sep 19th, 2019 at 12:25pm
 
Yeah, if the hydrogen is not sustainably generated they are pointless.

Still ICE vehicles—they will emit nitrous oxides, not zero emission. No CO2 emission—unless the hydrogen is made using fossil energy.

Momentum is clearly with EVs.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #198 - Sep 19th, 2019 at 12:39pm
 
Gosh the TWO lame brains are together displaying their total ignorance of just about everything.

Why do they hold themselves up for ridicule like this ? The Munkee was always not quite the full quid before he got suspended.

These ignorant fools cannot see the world is going hydrogen as real vehicles large and small are appearing now all over the world.

Hydrogen generation is becoming more efficient and cheaper as each year passes.

Electric toy cars are basically useless toys and electric is restricted to small vehicles as it is simply not practical in large vehicles and industrial machines as the enormous battery would take a week to recharge not to mention how extremely dangerous such a large lithium fire bomb would be!!!!

Now just to rub the ignorant fools snouts in it as UK goes HYDROGEN with quick refuel and no pollution unlike the dirty pollution spewing electric toy cars.





UK hydrogen fuel network grows with new pump on M40
Ed Wiseman 26 MARCH 2018 • 12:42PM

...
The hydrogen pump at Beaconsfield is the first in Britain to be located 'under the canopy' with the fossil fuels CREDIT: ED ROBINSON

A new hydrogen pump has been installed at Beaconsfield services on the M40, the second on Britain’s motorway network and the first to be built ‘under the canopy’ at an existing petrol station.

The machine has been supplied to Shell by Sheffield-based energy company ITM Power. It can be used by motorists to refuell hydrogen fuel cell cars such as the Toyota Mirai, Hyundai Nexo and Honda Clarity.

Such cars use a fuel cell to convert hydrogen into electricity, which is then used to turn the wheels. The only emission from this process is pure, drinkable water, making hydrogen fuel cell cars ‘zero emission’ and among the very cleanest on the road.

This is the second hydrogen pump installed by Shell at one of its motorway service stations, but is the first to be among the fossil fuel pumps under the main canopy. At its other site, at Cobham services on the M25, the hydrogen pump is slightly separate from the main refuelling area.

...
Hydrogen cars are quick to refuel, making them significantly more practical than battery-electric cars for many users CREDIT: ED ROBINSON

Read how hydrogen is taking the world by storm here

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/news/uk-hydrogen-fuel-network-grows-new-pump-m4...
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #199 - Sep 19th, 2019 at 1:50pm
 
EVs are storming ahead and hydrogen will be left in the dust.
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Reply #200 - Sep 19th, 2019 at 1:50pm
 
Just one nice hydrogen explosion and –fini– for hydrogen cars.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #201 - Sep 19th, 2019 at 2:00pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 19th, 2019 at 1:50pm:
Just one nice hydrogen explosion and –fini– for hydrogen cars.


Hydrogen is a zero-emissions technology and has none of the limititation of electric/battery vehicles.

LPG didn't have that issue and it's a very similar build to Hydrogen.

The thing is anyone can produce hydrogen for their car, it will never be a viable replacement for fossil fuels if it can't be so heavily controlled for profit.

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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #202 - Sep 19th, 2019 at 6:10pm
 
God what a combination, the Munkee from the GetUp! Propaganda Site and Skippy the Greeny Kangyroo.

They would not have a clue between them. No doubt they are both affected by Global Warming.

Now while these fools hold themselves up for ridicule its back to the TOPIC as the Chows show how it is done. Catalysts are the key.

Enormous research is going on all over the world getting ready to swing over to the exciting Hydrogen Energy revolution.

Hydrogen is seen as an energy storage for unreliable rubbishy renewables.

There is huge export opportunity for Australia to export hydrogen to Asia and japan.

The Hydrogen Energy Revolution is taking off all over the world while the useless filthy pollution spewing electric toy cars head towards the junk yards.




Chinese scientists find cheaper way to make hydrogen fuel
Xinhua | Updated: 2019-04-21 02:53

...
A fuel cell-powered bus is parked at a hydrogen filling station in Foshan city, South China's Guangdong province, Aug 22, 2017. [Photo/IC]

HEFEI -- Chinese scientists have found a cheaper way to produce hydrogen energy by developing a new catalyst.

The catalyst was developed by scientists from the University of Science and Technology of China, who used an alloy to improve the activity and stability of a kind of precious metal catalyst.

The new catalyst can greatly cut the cost of hydrogen production through electrolysis of water compared with Iridium dioxide, a catalyst that is widely used in production, according to the researchers.

As a clean energy, hydrogen has huge potential in industries including new energy vehicles and electricity generation.

The research on the catalyst provides a new direction for other similar scientific issues, said Wu Yuen, head of the research team.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201904/21/WS5cbb6ab6a3104842260b758e.html
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #203 - Sep 19th, 2019 at 6:14pm
 
And in Germany Hydrogen is flourishing.



Germany: Saxony First Hydrogen Service Station Launch By H2 MOBILITY
Friday, 21 September 2018

...
Germany: Saxony First Hydrogen Service Station Launch By H2 MOBILITY

H2 MOBILITY, with support from the European Union built the new hydrogen facility.

The first hydrogen fuel station in Saxony was kicked off at the TOTAL fuel service station in Dresden, one of the first 50 hydrogen (H2) service stations in Germany and an important contribution to enable eco-friendly electromobility for fuel cell vehicles.

With refueling capacity for up to 40 vehicles per day, Air Liquide produces the technology for the new hydrogen facility at the TOTAL service station in Dresden. Joint venture H2 MOBILITY, formed by the companies Air Liquide, Daimler, Linde, OMV, Shell, and TOTAL has the primary goal to operate 100 stations in metropolitan areas in Germany and along motorways and highways by 2019. As the vehicle numbers are ramped up, another 300 hydrogen fuel stations will follow.

H2 MOBILITY has received funding, For the establishment of the hydrogen station in Dresden, from the European Commission’s trans-European Transport Network (TEN-T CEF) within the project Connecting Hydrogen Refuelling Stations (COHRS). Thanks to the Clean Energy Partnership (CEP), an association of industrial representatives of diverse sectors funded by the German government within the scope of the National Innovation Program Hydrogen and Fuel Cell Technology (NIP), the development of Germany’s H2 network had advanced significantly in the past years. The federal government is also an associated partner of H2 MOBILITY, within the framework of the NOW GmbH.

No local pollutants or CO2 emissions are caused by eco-friendly electromobility using hydrogen. A high level of driving convenience is offered as a result of short refueling times and long ranges. With enough fuel for a reach of up to 800 kilometers, fuel cell vehicles can be refueled in under five minutes.

Stefan Brangs, State Secretary in the Saxon State Ministry for Economic Affairs, Labor and Transport remarked that to become modern and smart, cities must develop sustainable mobility concepts. “Hydrogen from renewable energies – preferably produced in the region – is certainly a key technology for the electromobility of the future. Therefore, I am pleased to see that the white spots on the map in eastern and central Germany are slowly becoming smaller and that there are more and more public hydrogen fuel stations. Because the establishment of a dense European network of hydrogen service stations is the basic prerequisite for more people switching to this type of drive.”

Nikolas Iwan, CEO of H2 MOBILITY, said, ”Hydrogen offers an electromobility solution without restrictions: dynamic acceleration, short refueling times and ranges comparable to conventional cars. We are delighted that more and more hydrogen pioneers are taking advantage of our fast-growing service station network. There will be 100 stations by the end of 2019!” PWKD21092018

https://www.petrolworld.com/alternative-fuels/item/30815-germany-saxony-first-hy...
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #204 - Sep 19th, 2019 at 6:14pm
 
As future gazers like me have been predicting, in China they are already abandoning the useless dangerous very inconvenient dirty pollution spewing electric toy cars.




China’s Electric Vehicle Industry Hit Hard by Policy Shift as Beijing Turns Toward Hydrogen Fuel
BY OLIVIA LI, EPOCH TIMES April 12, 2019 Updated: April 16, 2019Share

...
Electric cars charge at a Sinopec service station in Hangzhou, in China's eastern Zhejiang province on Jan. 14, 2019. The service station is one of the first in the country to offer petrol, compressed natural gas (CNG) and electric car charging service. (STR/AFP/Getty Images)
   
China’s electric vehicle (EV) industry has been booming for nearly a decade, with generous subsidies from the Chinese government and state-sponsored marketing efforts.

However, the research and development (R&D) subsidies are now shifting to vehicles with hydrogen fuel cells, a new technology that, according to industry, is cleaner and more efficient than lithium battery-run cars. Current EV automakers in China will have to face the cruel reality: The EV industry will soon suffer financial losses with the disappearance of state support.


Chinese Regime Shifting Subsidies
On March 26, China’s Ministry of Finance, Ministry of Science and Technology, and other agencies jointly announced changes to the subsidy program for lithium battery-powered electric cars, slashing subsidies by 67 percent.

Electric cars with driving ranges of 400 kilometers (250 miles) and above will be cut by half, to 25,000 yuan ($3,700) per vehicle, from 50,000 yuan. And to qualify for any subsidy, electric cars need to have a range of at least 250 kilometers, compared with 150 kilometers previously.

In addition, subsidies for EV vehicles will be phased out completely after 2020.


The Trigger: Li’s Trip to Japan
Chinese Premier Li Keqiang’s visit to Japan in 2018 fundamentally changed his thinking about electric vehicles.

Li visited Toyota Motor Corp.’s factory for manufacturing EV auto parts in Hokkaido on May 11, 2018, and saw a hydrogen fuel-cell vehicle called “MIRAI.” He learned that the MIRAI, which takes only three to four minutes to fuel, has a 650 kilometer (404 miles) driving range.

According to several Chinese media reports, upon Li’s return to China, several ministries and commissions in China quickly assembled a team to develop hydrogen fuel-cell technology, the first signal that China’s policymakers would make the fuel cells a major R&D project.

A lithium battery has several drawbacks when compared with a hydrogen fuel cell, which uses hydrogen gas as power.

Lithium batteries contain heavy metals such as nickel, cobalt, and manganese, and the mining process to extract such metals can cause pollution to nearby water sources. Meanwhile, processing of copper, lithium, and other metals create toxic waste that, if not treated and recycled properly, can cause serious environmental problems.


On March 15, China’s cabinet-like State Council publicized 83 amendments to its annual Government Work Report delivered before its rubber-stamp legislature. Among them was a provision to promote the construction of infrastructure related to electric and hydrogen fuel-cell technology. At the time, there were no additional policy details, but it was the first time that hydrogen fuel was included in the report.

Eleven days later, the Chinese government announced the new EV subsidy policies.

On April 11, the state-run, English-language newspaper China Daily reported that the central authorities’ development plan for hydrogen fuel technology set targets of getting 5,000 hydrogen energy vehicles on the road by 2020, 50,000 by 2025, and 1 million by 2030.

Subsidy Reductions
China’s EV automakers are already losing money.

For example, Chinese automaker BYD is a star brand in the domestic market. BYD started new energy vehicle (NEV) R&D 10 years ago.

According to Chinese news portal Sohu, citing information from BYD’s financial reports, in the past five years, the company has received a total of 6.93 billion yuan ($1.03 billion) in electric vehicle subsidies from the Chinese regime.

But the industry’s profitability was already falling. In BYD’s 2018 annual report released on March 27, the company’s net profit attributable to shareholders was 2.78 billion yuan, down 31.6 percent from the previous year. BYD explained that decline was mainly due to the reduction in subsidies and increases in R&D costs.

In early March, NIO (known as Shanghai Weilai Automobile in Chinese), which specializes in making electric autonomous vehicles and became publicly listed only half a year ago, reported revenue of 4.951 billion yuan ($738 million) in 2018 while net losses were 9.639 billion yuan ($1.44 billion). In addition, NIO also announced that it would cancel plans to build a new plant in Shanghai.


Read the rest of the closing down of the useless electric toy junk cars here

https://www.theepochtimes.com/chinas-electric-vehicle-industry-hit-hard-by-sudde...
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #205 - Sep 19th, 2019 at 6:17pm
 
juliar wrote on Sep 19th, 2019 at 6:10pm:
The Hydrogen Energy Revolution is taking off all over the world while
the useless filthy pollution spewing electric toy cars head towards the junk yards.




There will be business for both types of vehicle.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #206 - Sep 19th, 2019 at 6:18pm
 
Bobby must be thinking of electric bikes and scooters you see on the footpath.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #207 - Sep 19th, 2019 at 6:55pm
 
Hydrogen here there and everywhere.

When will ScoMo jump on the Hydrogen band wagon ?




Germany's hydrogen stations exceed US; California beats Japan on density
John Voelcker JOHN VOELCKER FEBRUARY 21, 2018

As of today, there are 39 hydrogen fueling stations in the U.S., all but four of them in the state of California.

They serve roughly 39 million Californians, whereas 284 million Americans outside the state have no access to hydrogen fuel-cell cars nor stations at which to refill them.

Germany, on the other hand, has 83 million residents—and 45 hydrogen fueling stations that are accessible to the public (though some require prior notice).


DON'T MISS: GM suggests Congress fund EV charging, Toyota asks for hydrogen fueling support

Japan leads the way on hydrogen stations, however, which is hardly surprising given that two of the three makers now offering hydrogen vehicles to the public are from that country.

That country now has 91 hydrogen stations, according to an assessment by H2Stations reported by FuelCellWorks last Wednesday, to serve a population of 127 million people.

The article notes that Germany had the highest rate of increase last year, adding 24 operating stations to the 2016 total of 21.


...
2015 Hyundai Tucson Fuel Cell, 2016 Toyota Mirai at hydrogen fueling station, Fountain Valley, CA

Another way to put the numbers into perspective is by land mass: California has 164,000 square miles, Japan has 146,000 square miles, and Germany has 138,000.

Summarized, Germany has 45 stations in the most compact area, serving twice as many people as the 35 now operating in California.

Japan's 91 hydrogen stations serve three times as many people as California's 35.

It struck us a useful metric might be to calculate the number of hydrogen stations spread over the product of the number of residents and area served.

Those results provide a somewhat different story on the relative density of hydrogen stations versus the overall number.

Even after accounting for its larger area, California has the highest number of hydrogen stations per trillion residents per square mile: 5.5 as of today.

...
Mercedes-Benz GLC F-Cell

The comparable figure for Japan is 4.9, and Germany lags somewhat at 3.9. (Though some may argue the stations should be considered only by population, not by both people and area, which is a justifiable position.)

Other factors make this analysis loose at best: California may have more drivers among its residents than Germany or Japan, which have the functioning mass-transit networks that the Golden State lacks.

Both California and Japan also include substantial regions of uninhabited mountainous terrain, however, with their populations more concentrated on the coasts.

Still, as Honda, Hyundai, and Toyota soon to produce thousands of hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles a year for public sale or lease, the question of fuel availability will remain key to their potential for adoption.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1115396_germanys-hydrogen-stations-exceed-u...
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #208 - Sep 19th, 2019 at 7:01pm
 
And just for light relief


...
An unsafe dangerous 2018 Tesla X writhing in agony as it burns to a crisp!!!!

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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #209 - Sep 20th, 2019 at 5:55am
 
juliar wrote on Sep 19th, 2019 at 6:10pm:
God what a combination, the Munkee from the GetUp! Propaganda Site and Skippy the Greeny Kangyroo.


This is what I don't understand about you.  We actually agree on this topic, yet you're still attacking?

But you're such a victim of trolling...

...

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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #210 - Sep 20th, 2019 at 7:05am
 
juliar wrote on Sep 19th, 2019 at 7:01pm:
And just for light relief


https://i.postimg.cc/MKNrBqgY/resizer.jpg
An unsafe dangerous 2018 Tesla X writhing in agony as it burns to a crisp!!!!



SHUTUP RETARD
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #211 - Sep 20th, 2019 at 7:05am
 
juliar wrote on Sep 19th, 2019 at 6:55pm:
Hydrogen here there and everywhere.

When will ScoMo jump on the Hydrogen band wagon ?




Germany's hydrogen stations exceed US; California beats Japan on density
John Voelcker JOHN VOELCKER FEBRUARY 21, 2018

As of today, there are 39 hydrogen fueling stations in the U.S., all but four of them in the state of California.

They serve roughly 39 million Californians, whereas 284 million Americans outside the state have no access to hydrogen fuel-cell cars nor stations at which to refill them.

Germany, on the other hand, has 83 million residents—and 45 hydrogen fueling stations that are accessible to the public (though some require prior notice).


DON'T MISS: GM suggests Congress fund EV charging, Toyota asks for hydrogen fueling support

Japan leads the way on hydrogen stations, however, which is hardly surprising given that two of the three makers now offering hydrogen vehicles to the public are from that country.

That country now has 91 hydrogen stations, according to an assessment by H2Stations reported by FuelCellWorks last Wednesday, to serve a population of 127 million people.

The article notes that Germany had the highest rate of increase last year, adding 24 operating stations to the 2016 total of 21.


https://i.postimg.cc/rsFfqWSj/2016-toyota-mirai-hydrogen-fuel-cell-car-newport-b...
2015 Hyundai Tucson Fuel Cell, 2016 Toyota Mirai at hydrogen fueling station, Fountain Valley, CA

Another way to put the numbers into perspective is by land mass: California has 164,000 square miles, Japan has 146,000 square miles, and Germany has 138,000.

Summarized, Germany has 45 stations in the most compact area, serving twice as many people as the 35 now operating in California.

Japan's 91 hydrogen stations serve three times as many people as California's 35.

It struck us a useful metric might be to calculate the number of hydrogen stations spread over the product of the number of residents and area served.

Those results provide a somewhat different story on the relative density of hydrogen stations versus the overall number.

Even after accounting for its larger area, California has the highest number of hydrogen stations per trillion residents per square mile: 5.5 as of today.

https://i.postimg.cc/gJVGCwpN/mercedes-benz-glc-f-cell-100622116-l.jpg
Mercedes-Benz GLC F-Cell

The comparable figure for Japan is 4.9, and Germany lags somewhat at 3.9. (Though some may argue the stations should be considered only by population, not by both people and area, which is a justifiable position.)

Other factors make this analysis loose at best: California may have more drivers among its residents than Germany or Japan, which have the functioning mass-transit networks that the Golden State lacks.

Both California and Japan also include substantial regions of uninhabited mountainous terrain, however, with their populations more concentrated on the coasts.

Still, as Honda, Hyundai, and Toyota soon to produce thousands of hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles a year for public sale or lease, the question of fuel availability will remain key to their potential for adoption.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1115396_germanys-hydrogen-stations-exceed-u...


SHUTUP RETARD
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #212 - Sep 20th, 2019 at 7:06am
 
juliar wrote on Sep 19th, 2019 at 6:55pm:
Hydrogen here there and everywhere.

When will ScoMo jump on the Hydrogen band wagon ?




Germany's hydrogen stations exceed US; California beats Japan on density
John Voelcker JOHN VOELCKER FEBRUARY 21, 2018

As of today, there are 39 hydrogen fueling stations in the U.S., all but four of them in the state of California.

They serve roughly 39 million Californians, whereas 284 million Americans outside the state have no access to hydrogen fuel-cell cars nor stations at which to refill them.

Germany, on the other hand, has 83 million residents—and 45 hydrogen fueling stations that are accessible to the public (though some require prior notice).


DON'T MISS: GM suggests Congress fund EV charging, Toyota asks for hydrogen fueling support

Japan leads the way on hydrogen stations, however, which is hardly surprising given that two of the three makers now offering hydrogen vehicles to the public are from that country.

That country now has 91 hydrogen stations, according to an assessment by H2Stations reported by FuelCellWorks last Wednesday, to serve a population of 127 million people.

The article notes that Germany had the highest rate of increase last year, adding 24 operating stations to the 2016 total of 21.


https://i.postimg.cc/rsFfqWSj/2016-toyota-mirai-hydrogen-fuel-cell-car-newport-b...
2015 Hyundai Tucson Fuel Cell, 2016 Toyota Mirai at hydrogen fueling station, Fountain Valley, CA

Another way to put the numbers into perspective is by land mass: California has 164,000 square miles, Japan has 146,000 square miles, and Germany has 138,000.

Summarized, Germany has 45 stations in the most compact area, serving twice as many people as the 35 now operating in California.

Japan's 91 hydrogen stations serve three times as many people as California's 35.

It struck us a useful metric might be to calculate the number of hydrogen stations spread over the product of the number of residents and area served.

Those results provide a somewhat different story on the relative density of hydrogen stations versus the overall number.

Even after accounting for its larger area, California has the highest number of hydrogen stations per trillion residents per square mile: 5.5 as of today.

https://i.postimg.cc/gJVGCwpN/mercedes-benz-glc-f-cell-100622116-l.jpg
Mercedes-Benz GLC F-Cell

The comparable figure for Japan is 4.9, and Germany lags somewhat at 3.9. (Though some may argue the stations should be considered only by population, not by both people and area, which is a justifiable position.)

Other factors make this analysis loose at best: California may have more drivers among its residents than Germany or Japan, which have the functioning mass-transit networks that the Golden State lacks.

Both California and Japan also include substantial regions of uninhabited mountainous terrain, however, with their populations more concentrated on the coasts.

Still, as Honda, Hyundai, and Toyota soon to produce thousands of hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles a year for public sale or lease, the question of fuel availability will remain key to their potential for adoption.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1115396_germanys-hydrogen-stations-exceed-u...


SHUTUP RETARD
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #213 - Sep 20th, 2019 at 7:06am
 
juliar wrote on Sep 19th, 2019 at 6:18pm:
Bobby must be thinking of electric bikes and scooters you see on the footpath.


SHUTUP RETARD
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #214 - Sep 20th, 2019 at 7:07am
 
juliar wrote on Sep 19th, 2019 at 6:14pm:
As future gazers like me have been predicting, in China they are already abandoning the useless dangerous very inconvenient dirty pollution spewing electric toy cars.

SHUTUP RETARD




China’s Electric Vehicle Industry Hit Hard by Policy Shift as Beijing Turns Toward Hydrogen Fuel
BY OLIVIA LI, EPOCH TIMES April 12, 2019 Updated: April 16, 2019Share

https://img.theepochtimes.com/assets/uploads/2019/04/12/GettyImages-1083068228-7...
Electric cars charge at a Sinopec service station in Hangzhou, in China's eastern Zhejiang province on Jan. 14, 2019. The service station is one of the first in the country to offer petrol, compressed natural gas (CNG) and electric car charging service. (STR/AFP/Getty Images)
   
China’s electric vehicle (EV) industry has been booming for nearly a decade, with generous subsidies from the Chinese government and state-sponsored marketing efforts.

However, the research and development (R&D) subsidies are now shifting to vehicles with hydrogen fuel cells, a new technology that, according to industry, is cleaner and more efficient than lithium battery-run cars. Current EV automakers in China will have to face the cruel reality: The EV industry will soon suffer financial losses with the disappearance of state support.


Chinese Regime Shifting Subsidies
On March 26, China’s Ministry of Finance, Ministry of Science and Technology, and other agencies jointly announced changes to the subsidy program for lithium battery-powered electric cars, slashing subsidies by 67 percent.

Electric cars with driving ranges of 400 kilometers (250 miles) and above will be cut by half, to 25,000 yuan ($3,700) per vehicle, from 50,000 yuan. And to qualify for any subsidy, electric cars need to have a range of at least 250 kilometers, compared with 150 kilometers previously.

In addition, subsidies for EV vehicles will be phased out completely after 2020.


The Trigger: Li’s Trip to Japan
Chinese Premier Li Keqiang’s visit to Japan in 2018 fundamentally changed his thinking about electric vehicles.

Li visited Toyota Motor Corp.’s factory for manufacturing EV auto parts in Hokkaido on May 11, 2018, and saw a hydrogen fuel-cell vehicle called “MIRAI.” He learned that the MIRAI, which takes only three to four minutes to fuel, has a 650 kilometer (404 miles) driving range.

According to several Chinese media reports, upon Li’s return to China, several ministries and commissions in China quickly assembled a team to develop hydrogen fuel-cell technology, the first signal that China’s policymakers would make the fuel cells a major R&D project.

A lithium battery has several drawbacks when compared with a hydrogen fuel cell, which uses hydrogen gas as power.

Lithium batteries contain heavy metals such as nickel, cobalt, and manganese, and the mining process to extract such metals can cause pollution to nearby water sources. Meanwhile, processing of copper, lithium, and other metals create toxic waste that, if not treated and recycled properly, can cause serious environmental problems.


On March 15, China’s cabinet-like State Council publicized 83 amendments to its annual Government Work Report delivered before its rubber-stamp legislature. Among them was a provision to promote the construction of infrastructure related to electric and hydrogen fuel-cell technology. At the time, there were no additional policy details, but it was the first time that hydrogen fuel was included in the report.

Eleven days later, the Chinese government announced the new EV subsidy policies.

On April 11, the state-run, English-language newspaper China Daily reported that the central authorities’ development plan for hydrogen fuel technology set targets of getting 5,000 hydrogen energy vehicles on the road by 2020, 50,000 by 2025, and 1 million by 2030.

Subsidy Reductions
China’s EV automakers are already losing money.

For example, Chinese automaker BYD is a star brand in the domestic market. BYD started new energy vehicle (NEV) R&D 10 years ago.

According to Chinese news portal Sohu, citing information from BYD’s financial reports, in the past five years, the company has received a total of 6.93 billion yuan ($1.03 billion) in electric vehicle subsidies from the Chinese regime.

But the industry’s profitability was already falling. In BYD’s 2018 annual report released on March 27, the company’s net profit attributable to shareholders was 2.78 billion yuan, down 31.6 percent from the previous year. BYD explained that decline was mainly due to the reduction in subsidies and increases in R&D costs.

In early March, NIO (known as Shanghai Weilai Automobile in Chinese), which specializes in making electric autonomous vehicles and became publicly listed only half a year ago, reported revenue of 4.951 billion yuan ($738 million) in 2018 while net losses were 9.639 billion yuan ($1.44 billion). In addition, NIO also announced that it would cancel plans to build a new plant in Shanghai.


Read the rest of the closing down of the useless electric toy junk cars here

https://www.theepochtimes.com/chinas-electric-vehicle-industry-hit-hard-by-sudde...

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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #215 - Sep 20th, 2019 at 9:09am
 
Strewth the wackos are out in force. Wonder what their problem is ?  Offended by FACTS ?

Don't like the FACT that China is going full tilt into hydrogen now ?

BazzaFromTheScrub must be heading towards a well needed suspension.   What a drongo, copies my excellent post about 5 times for no purpose whatsoever and adds a line of silly dribble to hold her sick mind up for ridicule.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #216 - Sep 20th, 2019 at 9:18am
 
Nobody here likes you. It is obvious you are a (poor) oil industry shill.

You should be back at school, doing grade 5 for the third time.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #217 - Sep 20th, 2019 at 9:32am
 
Now to shake the weirdohs out of their trees as China swings over to the ultimate future Hydrogen energy.

And the dopey Munkee a worn out Greeny displays how ignorant he really is. He was not the full quid when he was here before until he got suspended which was a great relief to all.  A classic dumb Greeny. Should be out marching to nowhere before the world ends.

It must be dull being a drongo like these weirdohs.




Beijing wants 100,000 hydrogen cars by 2025. Lured by government incentives and research, manufacturers are rushing to set up production plants
By ASIA TIMES STAFF MARCH 25, 2019

...
Hydrogen vehicles do not need recharging and have zero carbon emissions. Photo: Weibo

China expects to have 100,000 cars powered by clean-burning hydrogen cells on its roads within five to six years as it challenges such countries as Japan and South Korea for dominance of the emerging carbon-free automotive markets.

There are already more electric vehicles in China than anywhere else, but an expert in new energy sources with the Chinese Academy of Sciences told Xinhua that the
research and production focus was now shifting to hydrogen fuel cells. With their outstanding energy-conversion efficiency and zero carbon emissions, the cells are tipped to replace fossil-fuel engines and rechargeable batteries as the global power source for transport.


The blueprint for the program will be China’s successful marketing of electric cars: There were almost none 10 years ago, but a million electric and hybrid cars were sold to the public and private sectors last year, more than the rest of the world combined.

They use lithium-ion packs, which need to be recharged every 350-600 kilometers. In contrast, fuel cells generate their own electricity when hydrogen interacts with oxygen and do not need charging. Instead, they have hydrogen tanks that can hold far more energy, while the only byproducts are heat and water.

...
A prototype of a hydrogen bus developed by China’s Youngman Automobile. Photo: Handout

Beijing aims to add 30,000 “clean” vehicles in 30 cities each year from 2019, mostly powered by hydrogen, with the initial emphasis likely to be on public transportation. The government has invested more than US$12 billion in fuel cell technologies.

Lured by government research and production subsidies, domestic automakers such as Great Wall Motor, Yutong Bus and Foton Motor have rushed into the promising hydrogen automotive sector since last year. Changchun-based First Automobile Work, China’s oldest carmaker, has announced plans to mass-produce a fuel-cell version of its flagship marque Hongqi this year.

A 12 billion yuan (US$1.77 billion) hydrogen automobile plant is also being built in Guangdong province, backed by Hong Kong business magnate Li Ka-shing. Production will start by the end of this year, with an annual output of 160,000 units expected within five years.

Chinese policymakers may also offer incentives to accelerate the construction of fueling stations for hydrogen cars, according to China Security Times. There are currently only 12 functioning stations.


...
Methanol-powered taxis being used in China. Photo: Xinhua

Some earlier versions of hydrogen-powered cars are already on the road, such as the Toyota Mirai and Honda Clarity, but the fuel they carry is expensive, volatile and prone to explode. To overcome these problems, the University of Science and Technology of China said this year that it had invented a new catalyst capable of preventing highly flammable hydrogen fuel cells from overheating.

A research team with the university’s School of Chemistry and Materials Science said the catalyst would prevent cells from being affected by carbon monoxide and allow for the manufacturing of high-purity hydrogen at a time when the costs of making fuel cells and building and running hydrogen pipelines and fueling stations are still prohibitive. The battery would be able to work with temperature changes.

Older vehicles may be converted to hydrogen as technologies become available. In one notable breakthrough, Chinese researchers have adapted methanol, an alcohol made easily from coal, to hydrogen gas so it can power cars. The methanol releases hydrogen and carbon dioxide when it comes into contact with water, and the Chinese Academy of Sciences’ Institute of Coal Chemistry has developed a way to get a faster reaction under normal temperatures by using a device that can fit into a compact car.

The reaction chamber has a volume of only about 100 milliliters, and the vehicle can carry two fuel tanks – one for methanol and a smaller one for water – according to Xinhua and the South China Morning Post.

https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/03/article/beijing-wants-100000-hydrogen-cars-by-...
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #218 - Sep 20th, 2019 at 9:41am
 
Now to set off the drongos once again being sent nutty by exposure to high concentrations of carbon dioxide.




Wan Gang, China’s father of electric cars, thinks hydrogen is the future
Bloomberg Published: 7:16am, 13 Jun, 2019

The man who convinced Beijing to bet on electric vehicles says it’s time for the car industry’s next game-changing moment.

Hydrogen fuel cells have struggled to gain traction due to high costs and other factors, but China can change that by making them a national priority

...
Wan Gang, China's former minister of science and technology, during a press conference in Hong Kong in May 2018. Photo: Felix Wong

His vision to make China an electric-vehicle powerhouse revolutionised the global car industry, cementing a move away from the combustion engine. Now, Wan Gang says get ready for the next game-changing moment.

The world’s biggest car market is set to embrace hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles the way it did EVs, Wan, who’s been called the father of China’s electric car movement, said in a rare interview in Beijing on June 9.

A former Audi executive who went on to become China’s science-and-technology minister, Wan convinced leaders two decades ago to bet on the then-untested technology of vehicle electrification, selling it not only as a way to boost economic growth but also to tackle China’s dependence on oil imports and its mounting levels of pollution.

His strategy – using government subsidies to bring carmakers and drivers on board – made China home to one of every two EVs sold globally today.

...
A Toyota hydrogen fuel-cell concept car, the FCV PLUS, on display at the Auto China show in Beijing in April 2016. Photo: Reuters

And now it is hydrogen’s turn, Wan said.

“We should look into establishing a hydrogen society,” said Wan, 66, who is now a vice-chairman of China’s national advisory body for policymaking, a role that ranks higher than a minister and gives him a voice in the nation’s future planning. “We need to move further toward fuel cells.”

That means the government will commit resources to developing such vehicles, he said. While China plans to phase out the long-time subsidy program for the maturing EV industry next year, government funding for fuel-cell vehicles may stay in place to some extent, Wan said.
Despite the backing of industry giants such as Toyota and the benefits of fuel-cell vehicles – they refuel faster and are more suitable for driving long distances than all-electric vehicles – the technology has not caught on amid expensive prices.

South Korea, Hyundai bet big on hydrogen technology
But China has the muscle to change all that should it make hydrogen-powered vehicles a national priority – the type of turning point the industry has been waiting decades for.
For Wan – a mechanical engineer trained in Germany – the shift toward hydrogen is a natural step in realising a vision of having electric cars dominate inner-city traffic, while buses and trucks filled with hydrogen tanks roam the nation’s motorways for long-distance travel.
The adoption of fuel-cell vehicles has been slow in spite of China having an abundant supply of hydrogen, Wan said. There are only about 1,500 such vehicles in use there today, compared with more than two million purely electric vehicles, he said.

...
South Korean President Moon Jae-in (centre) is briefed on a hydrogen charging station in Changwon, South Korea, on June 5. Photo: EPA-EFE

It is not just China. Hydrogen fuel cells have struggled to gain traction worldwide not just because of high costs – one of the key components is platinum – but also because of the lack of infrastructure and the complexity of storing hydrogen.
Then there’s the matter of hydrogen’s flammability, as evidenced by the recent fire at a refuelling station in Norway.
“We will sort out the factors that have been hindering the development of fuel-cell vehicles,” Wan said.
Efforts are under way in Japan, which plans to increase the number of fuel-cell vehicles on its roads to 40,000 by 2020 – though BloombergNEF estimates sales so far are not close to that target.
In Europe, Daimler’s Mercedes-Benz unit rolled out a fuel-cell version of its popular GLC SUV. In the US, the California Fuel Cell Partnership is trying to promote the technology, with limited success.

Read on to see how Hydrogen will power the world

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/3014275/wan-gang-chinas-father-electric-...
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #219 - Sep 20th, 2019 at 9:42am
 
Security fence to keep the weirdohs out.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #220 - Sep 20th, 2019 at 9:55am
 
The security fence has holes—you are still here posting crap.
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Get the vaxx! 💉💉

If you don’t like abortions ignore them like you do school shootings.
 
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #221 - Sep 20th, 2019 at 10:10am
 
The silly old Munkee is even sillier than he was before he got suspended to the great relief of all. He is a twit  A classic dumb Greeny full of Greeny and GetUp! propaganda.

Oh well the world is going to end soon anyway according to the LUNATIC EXTREMIST GREENIES.


And to keep the naysayers focused on how unsafe and dangerous electric toy cars are

...
How they usually end up - 2018 Tesla X rests in the electric toy car graveyard.

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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #222 - Sep 20th, 2019 at 10:51am
 
Yet tens of thousands of Teslas and other EVs roll of production lines every month. The future of transport is EV.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #223 - Sep 20th, 2019 at 11:57am
 
Munkee you are like a disease - go away with your puerile Greeny GetUp! trash.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #224 - Sep 20th, 2019 at 1:53pm
 
Your Mummy is looking for you—you spat the dummy.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #225 - Sep 23rd, 2019 at 8:13am
 
Munkee you are here to snoop and try to sabotage this web site because it is so much better than your clagged out GetUp! Propaganda Site where you delete posts that don't fit your weird GetUp! Greeny absurdities.

You are illegally posting off topic SPAM in this topic. You should be suspended again for good this time.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #226 - Sep 23rd, 2019 at 8:30am
 
Hydrogen is a starter in the non-emission vehicle race.

It is WAY behind EVs.

Someone with an EV can recharge it from the solar panels on his roof, ample for the average daily commute of under 40Km. I doubt they can make hydrogen at home so they have to buy it, $$$.

Hydrogen is only a non-emitting fuel if it is made using non-carbon energy, nuclear or renewable. Big handicaps that EVs do not have.

EVs save weight—no need for a large engine block or drive train—motors can go directly on the drive wheels. Battery technology is advancing by leaps and bounds, reducing the cost of buying and running an EV even further.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #227 - Sep 23rd, 2019 at 8:50am
 
Munkee your ignorance is appalling. You are a disgrace to the Greenies.

The idiotic Greeny prepared reply trash you post makes you look ridiculous, You are a fraud to the Greeny Cause.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #228 - Sep 23rd, 2019 at 9:17am
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 23rd, 2019 at 8:30am:
Hydrogen is a starter in the non-emission vehicle race.

It is WAY behind EVs.

Someone with an EV can recharge it from the solar panels on his roof, ample for the average daily commute of under 40Km. I doubt they can make hydrogen at home so they have to buy it, $$$.

Hydrogen is only a non-emitting fuel if it is made using non-carbon energy, nuclear or renewable. Big handicaps that EVs do not have.

EVs save weight—no need for a large engine block or drive train—motors can go directly on the drive wheels. Battery technology is advancing by leaps and bounds, reducing the cost of buying and running an EV even further.


EVs are the best tech we have now.  Hydrogen could be the best tech of the future, but we're not there yet.

I hope we do get there.  Imagine being able to replace cruise ships with Hydrogen, that they can harvest while at sea if needed, or planes using a gel form of hydrogen in their engines...

There is far more than cars to just think about.  Tech where batteries just won't work, even with the improvements we see on the horizon.  Sure, we can't see past there, but hydrogen could even be a great fuel source for developing nations, or even as the driver to power the Evs recharging along with renewables.

But currently, it is WAY behind EVs.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #229 - Sep 23rd, 2019 at 9:21am
 
Oh no, Skippy the Greeny Kangyroo is supporting her friend Munkee by mindlessly repeating Munkee's Greeny prepared replies.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #230 - Sep 23rd, 2019 at 10:12am
 
It disappoints me that some in this thread are still blinded by their own stupidity and unable to comprehend the posts that others make.

For them, I'll try to dumb it down as best I can.

EVs are an established tech right now.  Hydrogen engines are the way of the future.  We should not be attacking either and at the same time, we should not stop developing Hydrogen simply because we've got something that is an improvement over existing combustion engines.  EVs are a great short term solution to fossil fuels, but that requires a heavier focus on renewables in order to not simply move the emissions from the car's tailpipe to a power plant.  I know renewables are GREENIE and bad, but that's just the way it is.

To dumb it down even further as best I can,

EVs good, Hydrogen better, EVs now, Hydrogen tomorrow.  Fossil Fuels bad, but can't be stopped with a flick of a switch, hence Ev's how, Hydrogen tomorrow.

Uggabooga
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #231 - Sep 23rd, 2019 at 12:54pm
 
Help! I am being trolled by my enemy who hates me.  Should I be a cry baby and a sook and complain ?
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #232 - Sep 23rd, 2019 at 1:10pm
 
Now to get away from the off topic puerile SPAM trolling by the uninformed nobodies and back to the future of Hydrogen Power.

Sth Korea knows where it is at and are going full tilt towards Hydrogen Power to get rid of particularly diesel pollution.





South Korea plans for hydrogen fuel-cell trucks to replace diesel by 2035
Mike Costello NEWS 22 March 2019

...

Hydrogen FCEV trucks, buses and trains are a huge part of Korea and Japan's futures, and Australia has an export role.

South Korea is seemingly set to require commercial vehicles in the country – including trucks and construction equipment – to use hydrogen fuel-cell drivetrains by 2035.

The move is designed to counter “serious fine dust problems” in the country not helped by diesel emissions, according to The Korea Herald. The plan was apparently released by Transport Minister-nominee Choi Jeong-ho and Yoon Kwan-seok of the ruling Democratic Party of Korea.

According to the report, Choi also plans to commercialise hydrogen-powered trains after 2025 with the aim of completing R&D and trials 2022, with train station hubs to be supported by large hydrogen fuel-cell buses.

“Following the nomination process, the ministry will make a roadmap that includes detailed plans to achieve the goal,” Choi is reported to have said. The Industry Ministry also announced it would invest around 130 billion won ($182 million AUD) in 23 renewable energy projects over the next three to four years.

...

Korea is already a leader in the so-called ‘hydrogen economy’, with the Hyundai Group ahead of the curve, selling the Nexo fuel-cell electric vehicle (FCEV) the runs on pressurised hydrogen, and also producing hydrogen buses. Hyundai also makes trains, and both Hyundai and Samsung make heavy equipment.

Hyundai Motor Company last year affirmed at the ‘IAA Commercial Vehicles 2018’ in Hanover a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) with Swiss hydrogen company H2 Energy (H2E) to provide 1000 heavy-duty fuel cell electric trucks and an adequate supply chain for renewable hydrogen.

In June last year, it was reported that the South Korean government and businesses would invest 2.6 trillion won ($3.2 billion AUD) out to 2023 in a public-private partnership to speed up the development of the country’s hydrogen fuel cell vehicle ecosystem.

The target is install 310 hydrogen stations by 2022 to supply 16,000 fuel cell vehicles. The funds will be spent on building plants for fuel cell vehicles and fuel cell stacks, manufacturing fuel cell buses and developing hydrogen storage systems.

...

The advantage of FCEV tech for trucks, buses, trains and other heavy vehicles is the fact that they can be refilled with pressurised hydrogen – which can be created with renewable sources and serve as useable storage – in a few minutes from a filler station.

And unlike a battery EV, and don’t need to lug around a few tons of batteries since they make their power onboard through chemical reactions, before emitting water. Having already ridden on a FCEV Hyundai bus that emits only drinkable water, cleans the air around it, and goes silently, I can attest to the tech’s veracity.

Thus FCEV widely seen as a replacement for today’s diesel vehicles, with battery EV tech to be left to smaller cars and SUVs. Especially since these sorts of vehicles regularly return to a central depot, where a filler can be located.


Alongside Korea, fellow regional power Japan is also investing in the hydrogen economy, and plans for the use of hydrogen as power generation.

...

The energy ministry has ambitious targets in the lead-up to the 2020 Olympics, with the city of Tokyo planning to deploy 100 hydrogen fuel cell buses (likely made by Toyota, which like Hyundai is heavily invested in the tech) during the games.

According to a report issued by Japan’s Ministerial Council on Renewable Energy, Hydrogen and Related Issues, the plan goes much further.

“The core of hydrogen use in the mobility sector is the diffusion of FCVs and hydrogen stations. Japan aims to increase the number of FCVs in Japan to 40,000 units by 2020, to 200,000 units by 2025, and to 800,000 units by 2030.,” the report says.

“Japan also aims to expand the number of hydrogen stations in Japan to 160 by FY2020 and to 320 by FY2025 and make hydrogen stations independent by the second half of the 2020s.”



This affects Australia greatly, since we have the renewable resources to make a lot of hydrogen for export. That’s why Australia’s Chief Scientist Alan Finkel is leading a National Hydrogen Strategy to map out a domestic and export hydrogen sector, with support from the COAG Energy Council, to be implemented from 2020.

The exciting story can be all seen here.

https://www.caradvice.com.au/738180/south-korea-plans-for-hydrogen-fuel-cell-tru...
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #233 - Sep 23rd, 2019 at 1:14pm
 
Quick before the trolls get here.

China is rushing to be a world leader in the Hydrogen Energy Revolution.



China sets sight on leapfrogging US and Japan in fuel-cell vehicles with subsidies for buyers and incentives for charging stations
Eric Ng  Published: 7:30am, 4 Sep, 2019

Buyers in 17 provinces will get subsidies of up to 160,000 yuan per fuel-cell vehicle this year while local authorities in 10 cities will hand out incentives of up to 4 million yuan toward the construction of every refuelling station.

The Chinese government is aiming to put a million fuel-cell vehicles on the roads by 2030, from 50,000 in 2025 and last year’s 1,791 units, more ambitious than plans outlined by Japan or in the US state of California

...
The “HydroGen 3" fuel-cell vehicle being refuelled with hydrogen in Tokyo on July 9, 2003, the first such vehicle in Japan to receive a “green” commercial number plate. FedEx will use the vehicle on its regular delivery routes in a one-year collaboration with General Motors. Photo: Reuters

China’s government has set its sight on fuel-cell vehicles as the next growth engine in the world’s largest automobile market, as it aims to catch up with the United States and Japan in cutting emissions and taking the next giant leap in technology.

Buyers in 17 Chinese provinces will get subsidies of between 128,000 yuan and 160,000 yuan (US$22,000) per fuel-cell passenger car this year, while commercial vans and trucks get between 192,000 yuan and 400,000 yuan each, according to the Ministry of Finance.

Local authorities in 10 cities have announced that they would hand out incentives of between 2 million yuan and 4 million yuan toward the construction of every refuelling station, following an April edict by China’s cabinet, according to an August report by Citic Securities.

The incentives form part of China’s plan to leapfrog the US and Japan in automotive technology, using the advantage of a market that sells more vehicles than any other nation on earth.

The world’s number of fuel-cell vehicles (FCVs) jumped 80 per cent to 12,900 units last year, with 46 per cent of them in the US, followed by 23 per cent in Japan and 14 per cent in China, according to the International Energy Agency.

The Chinese government is aiming to put a million fuel-cell vehicles on the roads by 2030, from 50,000 in 2025 and last year’s 1,791 units, more ambitious than the plans outlined by Japan or in the US state of California. Still, China’s ambitious goal pales in comparison to South Korea, which aims to have 1.8 million hydrogen-powered vehicles in service by 2030, with 80,000 units in 2023.

...

Hydrogen fuel cells could meet 18 per cent of global energy demand by 2050, creating a US$2.5 trillion market for hydrogen and fuel cell equipment, and contributing a fifth of the carbon emission abatement needed to limit global warming to 2 degrees Celsius, projected the Hydrogen Council, an international body backed by 60 firms.

“FCVs are currently at a similar stage of development as electric vehicles in 2013 and 2014, when the entire supply chain saw explosive growth thanks to a top-down government policymaking process,” TF Securities’ said in a note in April.

The Chinese government’s policies will help FCVs compete with electric vehicles that run on batteries, especially for public transit and heavy-duty vehicles where longer driving range and shorter refuelling time make fuel-cell vehicles the better zero-emission alternative to automobiles that run on internal combustion engines. Fuel cells produce electricity and water after combining hydrogen and air.

“When you think about a bus – do you want it to carry more batteries or passengers?” said Alfred Wong, the Asia-Pacific managing director of Canada-based fuel cell technology developer Ballard Power Systems, noting that electric vehicles faced a disadvantage compared with FCVs in public transit.

The FCVs industry is aiming to cut costs by 50 per cent in the next three to five years, based on announced global government ambitions and policy support, he added.

...
A Toyota Mirai fuel-cell vehicle on display at the China (Guangzhou) International Automobile Exhibition in Guangzhou on November 18, 2016. Photo: Reuters

China is aiming to halve the cost of fuel cell systems to 4,000 yuan per kilowatt by 2025 from last year, according to a white paper on fuel cell industry development published by China Hydrogen Alliance late June.

“Once we get the cost of heavy-duty vehicles down, we can address the lighter vehicles market, starting with the vehicles the ride-sharing applications enabled for smartphones, that require long driving range and short refuelling time,” he said.

A Toyota Mirai FCV can run 500 kms after five minutes of refuelling, compared with a charging time of between 30 minutes and up to nine hours for a range of between 150 to 300 kms for many electric vehicles.

https://www.scmp.com/business/companies/article/3025495/china-sets-sight-leapfro...
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #234 - Sep 23rd, 2019 at 1:15pm
 
Fence to keep the hate filled Greenies out.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #235 - Sep 23rd, 2019 at 2:20pm
 
SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 23rd, 2019 at 10:12am:
It disappoints me that some in this thread are still blinded by their own stupidity and unable to comprehend the posts that others make.

For them, I'll try to dumb it down as best I can.

EVs are an established tech right now.  Hydrogen engines are the way of the future.  We should not be attacking either and at the same time, we should not stop developing Hydrogen simply because we've got something that is an improvement over existing combustion engines.  EVs are a great short term solution to fossil fuels, but that requires a heavier focus on renewables in order to not simply move the emissions from the car's tailpipe to a power plant.  I know renewables are GREENIE and bad, but that's just the way it is.

To dumb it down even further as best I can,

EVs good, Hydrogen better, EVs now, Hydrogen tomorrow.  Fossil Fuels bad, but can't be stopped with a flick of a switch, hence Ev's how, Hydrogen tomorrow.

Uggabooga

You really think hydrogen is the fuel of the future?

I would not mind a nuke power plant to produce the energy needed to create hydrogen (or some hydrogen compound that may be better.)

The big unknown is fusion. That’d be great. You buy a car, pour in a glass of distilled water—all the fuel you will ever need! Or attach a cylinder of hydrogen I guess.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #236 - Sep 23rd, 2019 at 4:56pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 23rd, 2019 at 2:20pm:
SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 23rd, 2019 at 10:12am:
It disappoints me that some in this thread are still blinded by their own stupidity and unable to comprehend the posts that others make.

For them, I'll try to dumb it down as best I can.

EVs are an established tech right now.  Hydrogen engines are the way of the future.  We should not be attacking either and at the same time, we should not stop developing Hydrogen simply because we've got something that is an improvement over existing combustion engines.  EVs are a great short term solution to fossil fuels, but that requires a heavier focus on renewables in order to not simply move the emissions from the car's tailpipe to a power plant.  I know renewables are GREENIE and bad, but that's just the way it is.

To dumb it down even further as best I can,

EVs good, Hydrogen better, EVs now, Hydrogen tomorrow.  Fossil Fuels bad, but can't be stopped with a flick of a switch, hence Ev's how, Hydrogen tomorrow.

Uggabooga

You really think hydrogen is the fuel of the future?

I would not mind a nuke power plant to produce the energy needed to create hydrogen (or some hydrogen compound that may be better.)

The big unknown is fusion. That’d be great. You buy a car, pour in a glass of distilled water—all the fuel you will ever need! Or attach a cylinder of hydrogen I guess.


Well for zero-emissions with none of the limitation of battery storage, yes.

But it's not without its own set of issues.

No solution is perfect and I think we're at the point where something needs to be so desperately done that a combination of all these techs is likely the answer.

The main problem with that is if we don't go all-in on Hydrogen the infrastructure to support the refuelling etc won't be there and it will never become viable.

Some smaller countries will be able to do it, and the moment the rest of us see the benefits of no longer needing oil for transportation and the economic advantages of not being tied to such a volatile commodity, as we're seeing with the Iran blunder at the moment, they'll start coming on board too.

But this is a chance for Australia to get on board early, be innovators and export the tech and the knowhow.  We missed Solar, we missed EVs, let's not miss this too...

You've made it clear you just want to troll Juliar, so I'll ignore you if you leave the big boys alone to have an adult discussion.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #237 - Sep 23rd, 2019 at 5:13pm
 
I asked a serious question.

I do not think Hydrogen is in any sense an answer to AGW. As to range, current EV range is over 400Km which is about as far as a tank of petrol takes my Mazda—and using regeneration that range can be extended.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #238 - Sep 23rd, 2019 at 5:35pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 23rd, 2019 at 5:13pm:
I asked a serious question.

I do not think Hydrogen is in any sense an answer to AGW. As to range, current EV range is over 400Km which is about as far as a tank of petrol takes my Mazda—and using regeneration that range can be extended.


This is true, but it's not just the first world we have to think about.

And my apologies, I worded this very poorly,

SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 23rd, 2019 at 4:56pm:
You've made it clear you just want to troll Juliar, so I'll ignore you if you leave the big boys alone to have an adult discussion.


It should have read,

"Juliar, you've made it clear you just want to troll, so I'll ignore you if you leave the big boys alone to have an adult discussion."

We're the big boys having an adult discussion Smiley
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #239 - Sep 23rd, 2019 at 5:40pm
 
Smiley Smiley Smiley
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #240 - Sep 23rd, 2019 at 7:25pm
 
More ridiculous prepared Greeny replies from the pair of doomsdayers. Why do these fools hold themselves up for ridicule so often ?   They make a good pair posting illegal Off Topic SPAM which is all their tiny shrunken minds are capable of.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #241 - Sep 23rd, 2019 at 7:44pm
 
Now to rub the ignorant pair's snouts in their own Greeny stupidity.



Hydrogen cars 'on sale next year'
News World NewsMonday Monday 23 September 2019

...
John Krafcik, president and CEO of Hyundai Motor America, introduces the Tucson Fuel Cell hydrogen-powered electric vehicle at the Los Angeles Auto Show (AP/Jae C Hong)

Cars that run on hydrogen and exhaust-only water vapor are emerging to challenge electric vehicles as the world's transportation of the future.

At motor shows on two continents three car makers have unveiled hydrogen fuel cell vehicles to be delivered to the public as early as next spring.

South Korea's Hyundai will be the first to the mass market in the US. It unveiled a hydrogen-powered Tucson small SUV at the Los Angeles Auto Show that will be leased to consumers.

Honda has also revealed plans in Los Angeles for a car due out in 2015. Earlier, at the Tokyo Motor Show, Toyota promised a mass-produced fuel cell car by 2015 in Japan and 2016 in the US.

Hydrogen cars are appealing because unlike electric vehicles, they have the range of a typical petrol car and can be refuelled quickly. Experts say the industry has also overcome safety and reliability concerns that have hindered distribution in the past.


But hydrogen cars still have a glaring downside - refuelling stations are scarce and costly to build.

Consumers can expect costs in line with some luxury models. In Tokyo, Toyota promised a price of $50,000 to $100,000, and as close to the lower figure as possible. That's comparable to its Lexus luxury sedans, but a range that makes the once space-age experiment with fuel cells more credible.

Hyundai says it will lease the Tucsons for 499 dollars (£312) a month for three years with 3,000 dollars (£1,800) down - and it is offering to pay the hydrogen and maintenance costs.

The company will start leasing in the Los Angeles area, where most of the state's nine fuelling stations are located. California has allocated 100 million dollars (£62.5m) to build 100 more stations. Japan's Honda would not reveal any pricing details.

Even as battery-powered and hybrid-electric cars took on conventional petrol models in the past decade, car makers continued research into hydrogen fuel cells, said Paul Mutolo, director of external partnerships for the Cornell University Energy Materials Centre. Manufacturers are now limited only by costs and the lack of filling stations, he said.

Hydrogen cars, Mr Mutolo said, have an advantage over battery-powered electric cars because drivers do not have to worry about running out of electricity and having to wait hours for recharging.

"It's very similar to the kind of behavior that drivers have come to expect from their gasoline cars," he said.


Hydrogen fuel cells use a complex chemical process to separate electrons and protons in hydrogen gas molecules. The electrons move toward a positive pole and the movement creates electricity. That powers a car's electric motor, which turns the wheels.

Since the hydrogen is not burned, there is no pollution. Instead, oxygen is also pumped into the system and when it meets the hydrogen ions and electrons, it creates water and heat. The only by-product is water.

A fuel cell produces only about one volt of electricity, so many are stacked to generate enough juice.

Hydrogen costs as little as three dollars (£1.80) for an amount needed to power a car the same distance as a gallon of gasoline, Mr Mutolo said.

Manufacturers will probably lose money on hydrogen cars at first, but costs will decrease as precious metals are reduced in the fuel cells, he said.

Toyota has said its new fuel cell vehicle will go on sale in Japan in 2015 and within a year later in Europe and the US. Its car is a "concept" model called FCV that looks similar to the Prius gas-electric hybrid.

Honda, which has leased about 24 fuel cell cars since 2005, took the wraps off a futuristic-looking FCEV concept vehicle in Los Angeles. It shows the style of a 300-mile range fuel cell car that will be marketed in the US and Japan in 2015.

Stephen Ellis, manager of fuel cell marketing for Honda, would not say where the vehicle would be marketed in the US, but he expects hydrogen fuelling stations to be abundant first in California, and then north east states.

He predicts it will take five years for the stations to reach significant numbers outside California, and up to 25 years to go nationwide.

Hyundai would not say how many fuel-cell Tucsons it expected to lease. The company believes fuel cells will power the next generation of cars, appealing to affluent, environmentally-conscious customers because affordable battery technology has not advanced enough
.

"This is the sort of technology that makes batteries look old-fashioned," said the car maker's North American chief executive John Krafcik.

But sceptics say hydrogen fuelling stations are more expensive than electric car charging stations, partly because electricity is almost everywhere and new and safe ways for producing, storing and transferring hydrogen will be needed.

Read the totally thrilling rest here

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/hydrogen-cars-on-sale-next-year-29772685.h...
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #242 - Sep 23rd, 2019 at 7:44pm
 
Hydrogen is taking off just like petrol did 100's of years ago when it put the electric cars into the junk yards.

History is repeating itself.




How Toyota's Olympic buses are fuelling its hydrogen dream
18 Sept 2019

Sales of electric cars have undermined fuel cell vehicles, although Japan's government has promoted hydrogen use.

...
The lack of recharging infrastructure has made it difficult for hydrogen fuel cell vehicles to gain popularity, but the fixed routes of buses make it easier to plan fuelling stations [File: Kim Kyung-Hoon/Reuters]

Buses may not be the most glamorous mode of transport but at the 2020 Tokyo Olympic Games, they will represent Toyota Motor Corp's best bet for wider acceptance of hydrogen power - a technology so far eclipsed by electric vehicles.

Japan's biggest carmaker plans to roll out 100 hydrogen fuel cell buses to shuttle visitors between venues, a stepping stone to a big ramp-up for the Beijing Winter Olympics in 2022.

There, more than 1,000 buses are planned in partnership with Beiqi Foton Motor Co, according to people familiar with the project, which aims to make the most of a push by China to start adopting the zero-emissions technology.

The plans to promote hydrogen with its exclusive Olympic "mobility" sponsorship deal - one Toyota holds until 2024 - underscore its determination to keep backing the technology. That is despite an increasing number of electric cars on the road and Toyota's own efforts to speed up EV development.

But its reliance on buses for hydrogen publicity also highlights the lack of traction for its fuel cell cars, and the risk that hydrogen-powered transport may never be more than a niche market despite a quarter-century of development and Japanese government backing.

Toyota has sold fewer than 10,000 of the Mirai, a fuel cell sedan it touted as a game-changer at its launch five years ago. Costing consumers about five million yen ($46,200) in Japan after subsidies, it is one of three fuel cell cars available to consumers. Hyundai Motor Co sells the Nexo, while Honda Motor Co Ltd leases out the Clarity.

Sales of the hydrogen-powered Toyota Mirai have underperformed Tesla Inc's all-electric Model S sedans
By contrast, Tesla Inc sold 25,000 of its all-electric Model S sedans in its first year and a half.

The disappointing Mirai sales reflect insufficient refuelling stations, consumer worries about resale values and concerns over the risk of hydrogen explosions. A hydrogen tank blast in South Korea that killed two in May was followed by another at a Norway hydrogen station in June.

"Hydrogen still has this image of being dangerous - that it might explode - and our aim with the Olympics is to erase this image," Masaaki Ito, Toyota's general manager of its olympic and paralympic division, told Reuters.

The company will also provide 500 Mirai sedans to ferry officials between venues at the Tokyo Olympics. "We want to expose the technology to as many people as possible."


Unfulfilled ambitions
Toyota, which is also developing fuel cell delivery trucks and big rigs, has not disclosed how much money it has poured into the technology but it has been emboldened by support from the Japanese government, which sees hydrogen as a key way to reduce its reliance on oil.

Both envision a "hydrogen society" where homes, trains, ships, and even lunar rovers can be powered by fuel cells that turn the invisible, odourless gas into electricity.

The city of Tokyo, which will showcase the Olympic village for athletes as a hydrogen society in miniature, is buying most of the buses for its Toei municipal transport service, with 15 already in operation.

Unlike cars, buses have fixed routes, making it easier to plan fuelling stations and give them a shot at being profitable.

Local and national government subsidies cover 80 percent of the cost, bringing them in line with the 23 million yen ($213,000) price tag for a regular diesel bus, a Toei representative said.

But lofty government goals remain unmet. Three years ago, Japan declared that by 2020 it wanted 40,000 fuel cell vehicles on the road and 160 hydrogen fuelling stations in operation.

Today, just 3,400 fuel cell vehicles have been sold in Japan and it has 109 hydrogen stations.

Though vital for fuel cell cars to catch on, the stations are not easy to build, costing five times as much as a gasoline stand. Due to stringent safety regulations, they also require large plots of land which are in scarce supply.

Relying on China
Yet for all the slow progress, some analysts do not fault Toyota's pursuit of hydrogen power, pointing to China's backing of the technology and its vast car market.

"China is actually moving ahead a lot faster and although they suffer the same issue with lack of refuelling infrastructure, China has shown in the past that they can get infrastructure done pretty quickly," said Janet Lewis, head of Asian car research at Macquarie.

For the Beijing Games, Toyota will supply powertrain components for the Foton buses. They will be emblazoned with "Powered by Toyota"

https://www.aljazeera.com/ajimpact/toyota-olympic-buses-fueling-hydrogen-dream-1...
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #243 - Sep 23rd, 2019 at 7:46pm
 
Fence to keep the ignorant trolls out.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #244 - Oct 6th, 2019 at 12:49pm
 
juliar wrote on Sep 23rd, 2019 at 7:46pm:
Fence to keep the ignorant trolls out.

you are the main ignorant troll here.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #245 - Oct 6th, 2019 at 1:07pm
 
juliar wrote on Sep 23rd, 2019 at 7:44pm:
Hydrogen is taking off just like petrol did 100's of years ago when it put the electric cars into the junk yards.

History is repeating itself.




Yeh they are everywhere socko Cheesy LOL


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« Last Edit: Oct 6th, 2019 at 1:14pm by Sir lastnail »  

In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
 
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Reply #246 - Oct 6th, 2019 at 1:58pm
 
That epitome of ignorant stupidity, the totally warped Greeny Scunge, crawls out of the swamp to parade her unequaled legendary ignorance. 

Truly a classic Greeny that makes all normal people feel SO SUPERIOR when they look down on this poor creature that GOD has abandoned as not worth repairing.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #247 - Oct 6th, 2019 at 2:57pm
 
Poor old socko can't handle facts and the truth Cheesy LOL

Here are some more facts about electric buses and as usual Australia missed out on creating an industry out of it instead we have ripoff real estate deals and scumos banking mates pumping up the property bubble again Sad







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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
 
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #248 - Oct 7th, 2019 at 9:57am
 
Smelly Scunge likes being humiliated as she has an inferiority complex.

That epitome of ignorant stupidity, the totally warped Greeny Scunge, crawls out of the swamp to parade her unequaled legendary ignorance.

Truly a classic Greeny that makes all normal people feel SO SUPERIOR when they look down on this poor wretched deformed creature that GOD has abandoned as not worth repairing.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #249 - Oct 7th, 2019 at 10:56am
 
Pumping up a real estate bubble.
Keeping real estate agents in a job.
Throwing money at farmers in drought just to shut them up.

This is what we can expect from the conservatives. More do-nothing stand-for-nothing policies Sad
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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
 
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Reply #250 - Oct 7th, 2019 at 11:34am
 
The idiotic loony Greeny fool scunge just cannot resist displaying how ignorant of just about everything she is.

She just wants to make the normal people who despise her feel superior.
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Reply #251 - Oct 7th, 2019 at 12:20pm
 
Where is the idiotic moronic Greeny Scunge ? Has she sunk and disappeared into her own muddy slush ?
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #252 - Oct 8th, 2019 at 10:14pm
 
Oh look, the atmosphere is thinning.
We're running out of air.
Oh well. What's important is attacking Trump and watching news about China.

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Reply #253 - Oct 9th, 2019 at 11:20am
 
A highly apposite post by jasin.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #254 - Oct 10th, 2019 at 10:08am
 
juliar wrote on Sep 19th, 2019 at 7:01pm:
And just for light relief


https://i.postimg.cc/MKNrBqgY/resizer.jpg
An unsafe dangerous 2018 Tesla X writhing in agony as it burns to a crisp!!!!


you are nothing but a troll.
petrol cars explode more than EV's
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Reply #255 - Oct 10th, 2019 at 2:26pm
 
Cliffy falls of a cliff as she trolls the standard Greeny garbage. Is she a Tesla Fan Girl too ?

Her idiotic comparison is puerile and banal as there are millions more petrol and diesel cars than the unsafe dangerous very inconvenient Telsa toy cars which have a high incidence of crashes and lithium fire bomb explosions with clouds of poisonous gas being released and wheels falling off when the crummy suspension breaks.

And just for Cliffy who is so out of touch.

...
Tesla S comes to grief and adds to the frightening number of Tesla front end crashes.

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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #256 - Oct 11th, 2019 at 9:26am
 
juliar wrote on Oct 10th, 2019 at 2:26pm:
Cliffy falls of a cliff as she trolls the standard Greeny garbage. Is she a Tesla Fan Girl too ?

Her idiotic comparison is puerile and banal as there are millions more petrol and diesel cars than the unsafe dangerous very inconvenient Telsa toy cars which have a high incidence of crashes and lithium fire bomb explosions with clouds of poisonous gas being released and wheels falling off when the crummy suspension breaks.

And just for Cliffy who is so out of touch.

https://cs.copart.com/v1/AUTH_svc.pdoc00001/PIX178/c705c947-2fd3-45ed-82bb-9339a...
Tesla S comes to grief and adds to the frightening number of Tesla front end crashes.



then why don't you post them you f.cking degenerate loser !! You useless do-nothing, make cups of coffee, real estate piece of sh.t !


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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
 
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Reply #257 - Oct 11th, 2019 at 10:45am
 
From the dregs of society crawls the sick mentally disturbed loony Greeny Scunge eager to display her legendary ignorance. She is just trying to get attention as she is normally ignored as a waste of space that is not worth feeding.

But to keep the NORMAL PEOPLE focused on how unsafe and dangerous these useless very inconvenient pollution spewing electric toy cars really are.


...
Tesla 3 takes on a pole. Unexpected acceleration or lousy brakes ? Wonder how the pole is ?

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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #258 - Oct 11th, 2019 at 11:05am
 
Now ignoring the attention seeking jealous trolls.
Korea can see the obvious hydrogen future for all vehicles and industrial machines. Whereas the very inconvenient pollution spewing electric toy cars will gradually disappear just like they did some 200 years or so ago.





[Hydrogen Korea] Korea sets out to seize lead in hydrogen energy
By Cho Chung-un Published : Aug 5, 2018 - 15:17Updated : Aug 13, 2018 - 17:55

With Hyundai at global forefront, Seoul’s W2.6tr plan on hydrogen ecosystem ups hopes for energy transition, but market remains uncertain.
    
The Korea Herald is publishing a series of articles on South Korea’s latest measures, hurdles and the market drive for hydrogen economy. This is the first installment. -- Ed.

After a decade of dragging its feet, the South Korean government has come up with a set of measures to nurture an ecosystem for hydrogen vehicles, seeking a transition from fossil fuels to zero emission energy.

For more than a decade, the state drive for a hydrogen economy has been sidelined, due to policy inconsistencies through different administrations and a global preference for batteries over fuel cells.

Amid problems of energy intermittency being addressed over renewables, however, interest in the potential role of hydrogen in South Korea’s de-carbonization has grown.

In June, the Ministry of Industry, Trade and Energy announced a 2.6 trillion won plan to supply 16,000 hydrogen-powered vehicles and build 310 hydrogen refilling stations across the country. Under the five-year plan, businesses are expected to get state support for the development of fuel cell stacks and fuel cell storage containers, as well as tax breaks for hydrogen vehicle drivers.


...
(Yonhap)

The announcement is a follow-up to a pan-industrial alliance launched in April. The ministry signed a memorandum of understanding with local automakers, state-run utilities companies and related organizations to establish a special purpose company to build hydrogen fueling stations in major cities and on highways.

Park Jong-won, of the automobiles and aviation department of the Ministry of Industry, sees hydrogen and battery-powered vehicles (EVs) as complementary, not rivals.

Although there are only 170 hydrogen powered vehicles currently registered here, he expects that to reach 15,000 by 2022 –the same order of magnitude as the current number of EVs.

For EVs, which now have a head-start on hydrogen, the ministry also expects the number registered in South Korea to grow, from 25,500 to 350,000 over the same period.

“The technology of electric vehicles has become widely available now, but that of hydrogen cars are still in an infant stage and there should be more basic infrastructure like refilling stations (to buttress its growth),” he said.

Both hydrogen and battery-powered vehicles are electrically driven and have no carbon emissions -- qualities sought after by most advanced economies to minimize the use of gas or diesel in order to curb pollutants. Hybrids and plug in hybrids are also considered eco-friendly, using electric power to reduce the emissions from their regular diesel or gasoline engines.

The difference between hydrogen cars and EVs is that the latter are charged with electricity externally, while hydrogen powered cars generate energy by converting the chemical energy of hydrogen by reacting hydrogen with oxygen in a fuel cell. Aside from the difference in where the electricity comes from, the charging time for hydrogen vehicles is shorter than that of EVs, while a single charge gives a longer driving distance.

There are only a handful of commercial hydrogen vehicles in the market that include the world’s first Hyundai Tucson ix35 FCEV along with the Toyota Mirai and the Honda Clarity. Hyundai has also recently unveiled the newest flagship Nexo this year.

“Currently, South Korea is one of the leading countries in fuel cell electric vehicle (FCEV) technology which is yet taking a small portion both in domestic and global market,” said Ryan Lee, principal analyst at IHS Markit.

“However, the investment will accelerate popularizing FCEVs with more realistic numbers of charging infrastructure (only 11 FC charging stations in Korea currently) and sufficient subsidy support,” he said.

But the South Korean government’s focus appears to be limited to auto industry and is far from comprehensive, experts say.

In a hydrogen economy, vehicles would play a crucial part. But more comprehensive work has to be carried out -- such as building nationwide networks of energy supply and storage system, which cost a lot of money and require a high level of technology.

Japan has also been active in hydrogen.

By 2020, the year the country hosts the Tokyo Olympics, Japan plans to increase the number of hydrogen-powered vehicles by 40,000 units and 800,000 units by 2030. Under its 2014 road map toward a hydrogen economy, not only carmakers that have already succeeded in commercial production of fuel-cell electric vehicles, but also other traditional industrial players -- energy firms, steelmakers and shipbuilders -- have formed an alliance to switch to hydrogen energy.

Read the exciting rest here

http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20180805000139
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #259 - Oct 11th, 2019 at 11:17am
 
Over in London the MPs are getting into the next future generation of hydrogen powered pollution free vehicles.

Hydrogen is following a similar pattern as petrol did in the early days when there were no filling stations and the current huge petrol infrastructure was being developed into what it is today.

Look at how complex the refining of crude oil is today.




Chris Grayling MP is first to drive one of the Green Tomato Cars
18/06/2018

...
New Fleet of 50 Toyota Mirai Fuel Cell Electric Saloons

Chris Grayling MP was the first person to drive one of 50 new Toyota Mirai hydrogen fuel cell electric saloons that are joining the London fleet of green private hire company Green Tomato Cars. He made the short journey from the Department for Transport offices in Westminster, with Jonny Goldstone, Green Tomato Cars co-founder and Managing Director and Paul Van der Burgh, Toyota GB President and Managing Director.

Chris Grayling said: ‘I was thoroughly impressed by the Toyota Mirai today and was delighted to be the first passenger in one of Green Tomato Cars’ new zero – emission vehicles. Improvements in hydrogen infrastructure over the last year and the developing partnerships between the hydrogen power providers, manufacturers of hydrogen vehicles and end users, are helping accelerate the decarbonisation of road transport.’

...

The new cars are being provided with the support of the UK’s Office for Low Emission Vehicles (OLEV*) Hydrogen for Transport Program and the Zero Emission Fleet vehicles For European Roll-Out(ZEFER**) program, an EU project, funded by the Fuel Cell and Hydrogen Joint Undertaking (FCH JU***).

Green Tomato Cars is taking delivery of 25 of the zero emission Mirai cars now, with another 25 due to be delivered in September. These vehicles will offer the same service as the current premium ‘Black Car’ service and will also be allocated to standard bookings across London and the Home Counties, 24/7.

Jonny Goldstone, MD and co-founder of Green Tomato Cars comments: “We’re very proud to have pioneered hydrogen powered transport in London and are delighted with the performance of our two original Toyota Mirai. This is a truly unique project where investors in hydrogen technology, manufacturers of hydrogen cars and Green Tomato Cars as the end users, have come together with a commitment to make hydrogen transport workfor the good of the people and the environment.

We’d like to thank OLEV, the FCH JU and Toyota for their support in helping us acquire such a significant number of these innovative cars. We’ve already seen lots of demand for our zero emission Mirai hydrogen cars from our major corporate clients, as well as a green room of celebrities and hundreds of our regular private individual customers. We can’t wait to put the new cars on the road and drive into the future”.

Paul Van der Burgh, Managing Director and President of Toyota GB PLC commented: ‘We’re delighted that Green Tomato Cars have been happy with their Toyota Mirai cars and that they are taking 50 more. It’s clear that confidence in hydrogen powered transport is growing among end users, which is another step in the path towards a hydrogen society.’

The Mirai are expected to do the same average mileage as other cars on the Green Tomato Cars fleet, around 120-150 miles a day. A Mirai can travel up to 300 miles on a full tank of hydrogen, so the private hire cars should be refuelling every two dayson average. Improvements in hydrogen infrastructure have
increased the viability of hydrogen powered transport in the UK. Over the last year several new hydrogen fuelling stations have opened across the UK. There are a total of six stations within and around the M25 (including one in Hendon) with more expected to be operational by the end of the year.

Green Tomato Cars was the first private hire company in Europe to take on hydrogen fuel cell cars in Europe, having had two Toyota Mirai cars on its fleet since 2015 completing over 25,000 miles a year in normal commercial operation.

Green Tomato Cars has embarked on a significant recruitment project, taking on employee drivers(for the first time in the company’s history) for the new Mirai cars. This will ensure the right balance of these unique cars in service at any given time. An additional benefit will be that the company can test the viability of the employee model in terms of efficiency, quality of service, driver engagement and passenger satisfaction, compared with the current
model in which current drivers are independent contractors working on a flexible ‘earn-as-you-drive’ basis. Recruitment is open to current Green Tomato drivers and new applicants.

https://zefer.eu/uncategorised/chris-grayling-mp-is-first-to-drive-one-of-the-gr...
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #260 - Oct 11th, 2019 at 11:19am
 
Fence to keep the trolls out.  On the front fence of every good blog site is a big sign, "Don't feed the trolls - it only encourages them!!!"
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #261 - Oct 11th, 2019 at 1:24pm
 
what an ignorant post.  no clue about reality. the idiot liar has no clue of reality.  very sad.. poor dear... just doesnt understand science.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #262 - Oct 11th, 2019 at 2:21pm
 
Cliff48 wrote on Oct 11th, 2019 at 1:24pm:
what an ignorant post.  no clue about reality. the idiot liar has no clue of reality.  very sad.. poor dear... just doesnt understand science.


just like the rest of the LNP who make up their own science to fit their greedy motives in life Sad

Where there is a prospect of being greedy there will always be an LNP supporter willing to take advantage of the opportunity Sad
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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
 
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #263 - Oct 11th, 2019 at 2:43pm
 
The ignorant idiot Greeny pests Cliff and Scunge just make themselves look even more pathetically ridiculous.

These low forms of life are normally ignored as just a waste of space and so these creeps try to get attention.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #264 - Oct 11th, 2019 at 10:53pm
 
juliar wrote on Oct 11th, 2019 at 2:43pm:
The ignorant idiot Greeny pests Cliff and Scunge just make themselves look even more pathetically ridiculous.

These low forms of life are normally ignored as just a waste of space and so these creeps try to get attention.


you fit the bill on that front perfectly socko. I don't see Elon musk taking any notice of your BS posts do you ? He's too busy do something constructive for the benefit of the planet whereas you lot are trying to destroy it Sad
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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
 
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #265 - Oct 14th, 2019 at 10:32am
 
The low form of "life" the loony Greeny Scunge just keeps crawling around hoping to get noticed. What a waste of space that is not worth feeding this silly coot is.

Now getting away from the unbelievably ignorant unbalanced undesirables and back to the topic.

London coppers are already on the way to their hydrogen future.




Met trials fleet of hydrogen-powered vehicles as part of zero emissions program
News   •   Oct 08, 2019 20:01 BST

...
Hydrogen powered London coppers are chasing the evil pollution spewing electric cars into the junk yards.

The Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) has launched an ambitious programme to achieve zero emissions across its vehicles by 2050, and as part of this now trialling a fleet of hydrogen-powered vehicles.

Hydrogen and fuel cell power have come into sharper focus in the UK in recent years as a potential emissions-free alternative to traditional energy sources.

The MPS is embracing clean energy technology and is continuously exploring new ways to reduce emissions via alternative fuel and energy.

Seth Finkelstein, the Met’s Fleet Services Air Quality lead, said: “Alongside our existing fleet of hybrid and electric cars, we want to explore whether hydrogen power could also become part of our future.

“Tuesday, 8 October, is becoming recognised around the world as Hydrogen and Fuel Cell Day and it is increasingly clear that the role of hydrogen and fuel cell power will play an important role on this journey.

We have a range of zero and ultra-low emission vehicles (including hybrids, fully electric, and hydrogen) as part of our fleet, in fact, we now have over 500 of these in operational roles.

We are striving to increase this amount as we move forward and are continuously engaging with vehicle manufacturers around new technologies and are open to trial all new technology that can support our operational requirements, such as hydrogen and fuel cell power.

It should be noted however, that as new technology is rolled out, there are always barriers to overcome. In this instance, it’s the availability of hydrogen refuelling stations that will need to be addressed to help further the use of these vehicles.”

The MPS has adopted this technology and has implemented hydrogen and fuel cell powered vehicles within its fleet.

The 21 hydrogen-powered Toyota Mirai’s have so far clocked up over 260,000 emission free miles.

Ten of these cars have been partly funded by the European Commission as part of the FCH JU (Fuel Cells and Hydrogen Joint Undertaking) research programme through the ZEFER project (Zero Emission Fleet vehicles For European Roll-out).

The project aims to demonstrate the business case for organisations converting their fleets to fuel cell electric vehicles, and thus improving the business case for hydrogen refuelling stations.


http://news.met.police.uk/news/met-trials-fleet-of-hydrogen-powered-vehicles-as-...
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #266 - Oct 14th, 2019 at 10:58am
 
Even in crazy Ireland they are going full tilt to the Hydrogen Energy Future.

Hydrogen is retracing the path that petrol and diesel took some 200 years ago when they hustled the useless electric toy "cars" into the junk yards. Just like the petrol and diesel did hydrogen is now building the hydrogen fueling network.





New group aims to put 30,000 hydrogen-powered cars on the road by 2030
Mark Teevan, Thursday, October 03, 2019 - 01:07 PM

...

A new industry group wants to make hydrogen fuel available at filling stations on every main road in the country by 2030.

Hydrogen Mobility Ireland says a network of 76 stations would mean half the population would have one in their town.

Mark Teevan from Toyota Ireland heads up the industry group which hopes the government will put €14 million into the scheme.

He says action to cut carbon emissions in transport is needed sooner rather than later.

"The challenge is to get started since not only is a new infrastructure needed but also the production of a new fuel," said Mr Teevan.

"With Hydrogen Mobility Ireland, we have started the process of coordinating industry’s response to this challenge whilst also planning to align with academic and policy thinking.

"This report is the first output of HMI and leads us to the next part of the challenge which is to implement our findings."

At the launch at Bord Gáis Energy headquarters today, Minister for Communications, Climate Action and the Environment Richard Bruton said: "The Climate Action Plan, launched earlier this year, commits to over 180 actions across every sector of society to step up our response to the climate challenge.

"These actions were chosen based on an assessment of the least cost, least burden options currently available.

"The plan is a rolling plan, designed to integrate best practice as it emerges and adapt to emerging new technologies.

"I welcome this research as a valuable insight into a potential pathway for the introduction of hydrogen vehicles in Ireland between now and 2030."

In 2017, transport accounted for 39% of Ireland's total greenhouse gasses.

According to Hydrogen Mobility Ireland, hydrogen cars, buses and trucks can be a reality by 2023.


https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/new-group-aims-to-put-30000-...
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #267 - Oct 14th, 2019 at 11:27am
 
The inevitable rise of Hydrogen is being embraced even underground.




The Intelligent guide to: hydrogen fuel cells for mining
BY CARLY LEONIDA 31ST JAN 2019

...
Only pure clean water comes out of these.

Batteries and battery metals are currently enjoying their moment in the spotlight. But there are alternative technologies for miners looking to reduce their carbon footprint. The Intelligent Miner presents a selection of the best articles on hydrogen fuel cells for mining.

Why hydrogen?
Hydrogen fuel cells, while still at a nascent stage of development for mine vehicles, could offer a viable alternative to traditional style and lithium-based batteries. On a larger scale, they also provide an alternative energy-storage mechanism for off-grid mine sites, and can be applied alongside advanced battery systems and gas or renewable energy sources in order to secure sites a reliable source of low-cost power.

Research firm Grand View Research expects the global fuel cell market to grow to US$24.81 billion by 2025 at a compound average growth rate of 20.9%, and with major miners like Amplats and Fortescue Metals Group investing in the technology, it’s certainly worth consideration for forward thinking miners.

The Rocky Mountain Institute ran an excellent article in September last year from Christopher Jackson, a renewable energy consultant for the World Bank, which explains how hydrogen fuel cells can be applied across the spectrum in mining. You can read it here.

Hydrogen for mine vehicles
Platinum-based hydrogen fuel cells currently exhibit the most promise for use in both passenger and off-highway vehicles. They convert energy stored in chemical form into electricity, cleanly and quietly. Amplats gives a good overview of how the technology works here.

Hydrogen and batteries are often portrayed as competing technologies. However, their relative strengths and weaknesses suggest that they could play complementary roles; battery electric vehicles have a higher overall fuel efficiency as long as they are not too heavy due to large battery sizes, making them well suited for short-distance and lighter vehicles. Hydrogen can store more energy in less weight, making fuel cells suitable for vehicles with heavy payloads and long ranges. Faster refuelling also benefits commercial fleets and other vehicles in near-continuous use. How the technologies relate will depend on how battery technology evolves and how quickly cost reductions from scaling fuel-cell production can be realised.

From 2004-08, the US Department of Energy ran a programme in conjunction with industry partners including Caterpillar, Newmont and Hatch called The Fuel Cell Hybrid Mine Loader Project. The project had three main goals: to develop a fuel cell powered LHD, to develop associated metal-hydrid storage and refuelling systems, and to demonstrate the hybrid loader in an underground mine in Nevada. The full report published in 2009 is available here and makes good reading for those interested in the technical aspects of fuel cells.

The team found that, although hydrogen fuel cell power plants are technically ready to power underground mining vehicles, the underground mining industry is a relatively small market compared to mobile surface markets, and as such, it is difficult to attract the necessary capital investment to put fuel cell powered vehicles into commercial production.

Given the recent level of interest in batteries for mining vehicles, their more advanced state of development and lower price point, this is where most major OEMs and miners are focusing their efforts, particularly for underground equipment models which are smaller and more easily powered. Hydrogen fuelled trucks and loaders, while technically feasible are still a way off of commercialisation. However, as the market for fuel-cell powered on-highway vehicles matures, so too will the technologies for off-highway applications.

Hydrogen for energy supply
More widely understood and commercially proven, hydrogen fuel cells for microgrids are gaining traction, particularly in major mining markets such as Australia.

Brisbane hosted a major conference dedicated to hydrogen energy in August 2018. The Coalition for Eco Efficient Comminution produced a report summarising key finding and featuring many of the presentations which you can read here. There was also a good presentation at the Energy and Mines conference which was held in Australia in June 2018 on de-risking mining operations with renewable hydrogen energy systems. Click here to download it.

The Australian government is providing substantial backing for the development and implementation of hydrogen-based technologies and national research agency CSIRO announced in 2017 that it had made a major breakthrough in the use of ammonia for the storage and transport of hydrogen destined for fuel cells. This was followed by the creation of a A$20 million partnership with FMG in Nov 2018 to commercialise the technology.

At the International Conference on Hydrogen from Renewable Energies, New Opportunities for Chile held in 2017, engineering consultants from AdapTec also presented their ideas for a hydrogen-powered mine village and also hydrogen fuel-cell powered vehicles.

https://theintelligentminer.com/2019/01/31/the-intelligent-guide-to-hydrogen-fue...
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #268 - Oct 14th, 2019 at 12:48pm
 
Hydrogen rises as the curtain comes down on the useless electric toy "cars".



Hydrogen is the future, not battery-electric cars: Lexus
Stephen Corby 03 October 2017

Despite what you’ve heard from many major car corporations, and Tesla, electric vehicles are not the future, and never will be - according to Paul Williamsen, Lexus’s manager of global strategic communications - because the charging times will never fall to acceptable, practical levels.

...

It’s “a simple matter of chemistry,” the company’s self-described “tech guy”, explains.

If EVs were the answer to our oil and smog problems, Lexus would be producing whisper-quiet luxury electric cars, but it’s not. According to Williamsen, the Japanese company, and its giant parent, Toyota, believes that “both hybrid and EVs are merely bridging technologies on the way to the solution, which is hydrogen”.

Unlike EV-mad Nissan, the Toyota group’s plan is to largely stick with internal-combustion engines and hybrids, because a “smart company” wouldn’t bother investing too much money in a form of propulsion that will never catch on, and will soon be redundant anyway. This explains, in part, why Toyota is partnering up for its "bridging" EVs rather than throwing all of its own considerable resources at the technology.

“The problem with EVs is a simple matter of chemistry - we won’t be able to get the charging times down,” Williamsen explains.

“I’ve worked with batteries enough to know that fast-charging a battery is about the second worst thing you can do to it. There are two ways to abuse a battery: overheat it or fast charge it.

“With the Tesla Superchargers, they don’t publicise it, but if you 'supercharge' a Tesla, one supercharge takes 20 charge cycles off the end of that battery’s life. Two supercharges takes 40 charges.

“That’s simple chemistry; you can’t force the ions through the battery that fast without causing damage.


“With hydrogen, we’ve got something that can fill a (Toyota) Mirai, or a Highlander, or a Honda, or a Hyundai, with a 200 to 400-mile range, in three minutes. You’ll buy that, your wife will buy that, and she’s going to pay about $4 (per gallon, or 3.8 litres) to fill it up, too, which is pretty great.”



...
Above: the Toyota Mirai, top of article: the hydrogen-fuelled Lexus LF-FC concept

Although hydrogen is measured in kilograms, Williamsen offered the 'per gallon' figure as a means of comparison for buyers more familiar with conventional fuels. He says that US$4 per-gallon price is what's available currently in the US, but, once the economies of scale change, and demand rises, the cost could fall even lower.

As with regular fuels, the price of hydrogen varies from region to region, station to station, and tests in the US and Europe suggest that filling the Toyota Mirai's 5kg of storage is a roughly $60 prospect, in Australian dollars.

There is currently one fixed hydrogen-fuel station in all of Australia (at Hyundai’s headquarters in Sydney), but the US, or at least California, is getting serious, building a Hydrogen Highway of filling stations (36 of them and counting) from San Francisco to the Mexican border (apparently they run into a Big, Beautiful Wall when they get there).

While there are several car companies working on hydrogen tech, both publicly and otherwise, Toyota/Lexus is sure it has the jump on everybody, and that the future will prove it was right to build boring hybrids like the Prius all along.

“You can make a motor vehicle that uses hydrogen as an energy source in three completely unrelated ways,” Williamsen explains.

“The only one that makes sense is a hydrogen/EV hybrid. That’s what we’re doing, and we’re using our experience in hybrid to do that.

“If you don’t make your hydrogen car a hybrid, you’re giving up all the efficiency advantages of regeneration. So you’re being wasteful.

“Our approach is to have the best and most efficient way of using hydrogen, which has to be a hybrid. Not every automaker thinks that way. They can have a zero-emission vehicle by having a hydrogen fuel cell that directly drives the car, or a hydrogen powered ICE, but they’re using twice as much hydrogen as we are.

“We believe a hydrogen fuel cell EV hybrid is the only way to go, so that’s all we build.

“And the Mirai is our sixth generation of production-ready hydrogen technology. The previous five were production ready, but there wasn’t enough demand to put them into production. But now you can buy them.”

Or you can in America, where a Mirai will set you back $US57,000, before the generous tax incentives from the Californian State Government kick in, or you can lease one for $US499 a month.

...

The problem with hydrogen, Williamsen admits, is that most ways of producing it at the moment are still carbon-output heavy, and those methods vary widely by region.

Read the depressing rest of the coming demise of the electric toy "car" here.

https://www.caradvice.com.au/588509/hydrogen-is-the-future-not-battery-electric-...
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #269 - Oct 15th, 2019 at 10:55am
 
Fence to keep the Scunge troll undesirable out.

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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #270 - Oct 16th, 2019 at 1:15pm
 
juliar wrote on Oct 15th, 2019 at 11:17am:
Now the shocking truth about child labour involved in electric toy "cars" and the environmental hypocrites that drive them until they crash..


Child labour



Really !! You don't own a smart phone or laptop with Lithium Ion batteries ??

Also checkout the rare earths used in catalytic converters on every fossil fool car Sad

Who's the hypocrite now socko ???

...
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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
 
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #271 - Oct 16th, 2019 at 2:24pm
 
Mod do something about this brainless idiot illegally posting off topic spam.
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #272 - Oct 25th, 2019 at 9:53am
 
juliar wrote on Oct 16th, 2019 at 2:24pm:
Mod do something about this brainless idiot illegally posting off topic spam.

we tried juliar - but you are still here
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #273 - Oct 25th, 2019 at 2:07pm
 
Silly old Cliffy is trying to get some attention as she is usually ignored as an undesirable.

Wonder who has the lowest IQ (<10 ?)  Cliffy or Scunge ?
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #274 - Oct 25th, 2019 at 3:05pm
 
juliar wrote on Oct 25th, 2019 at 2:07pm:
Silly old Cliffy is trying to get some attention as she is usually ignored as an undesirable.

Wonder who has the lowest IQ (<10 ?)  Cliffy or Scunge ?


still talking to yourself socko ? It's the 1st sign of madness.

2nd sign is answering back Cheesy LOL
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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
 
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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #275 - Oct 25th, 2019 at 3:11pm
 
Is the winner the child's mind in an adult body the sick in the head loony Greeny Scunge with an IQ of 4!!!

Wonder which DoomsDay road the idiotic fool will glue herself to next ?
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