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If that proposition by Plato is correct..... (Read 4462 times)
Yadda
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If that proposition by Plato is correct.....
May 27th, 2019 at 9:09am
 



"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws."

- Plato (427-347 BC)


If that proposition by Plato is correct.....


Wouldn't we all enjoy greater personal freedoms and safety [for the majority], if collectively, we determined [and agreed] to enable laws, to remove [from a society of men] those persons who negligently or intentionally cause harm to others ?

Under such a regime [of actively seeking to permanently remove the 'wolves' from any society],
wouldn't such a society of men be more likely to achieve a peaceful, prosperous, and harmonious political state, for that society of men ?

e.g.
Permanently remove murderers from society.

Permanently remove persistent thieves.

Permanently remove those who [without cause] persistently assault and cause harm to others.




PROPOSITION;
Where men and women come together to live in a society, for the sake of their mutual benefit [and safety],
wouldn't a primary objective for that collective society of men be;

1/ To keep the meadow safe, for the sheep.

2/ To ban the wolves [from having access to the meadow].

?


'the meadow' = = any society of men

'the sheep' = = peaceful, productive people/citizens.

'wolves' = = 'predators'



PROPOSITION;
There can be no peace and there can be no safety [for any group of sheep], if the sheep are willing to permit wolves to enter their meadow, and predate upon the sheep [....as we know all wolves are want to do].


?


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« Last Edit: May 27th, 2019 at 9:18am by Yadda »  

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Jasin
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Re: If that proposition by Plato is correct.....
Reply #1 - May 27th, 2019 at 6:11pm
 
To 'serve' in Heaven
or
'Reign' in Hell.

Both are the same for he who reigns is in heaven and those that serve are also in  hell.
Cheesy
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Yadda
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Re: If that proposition by Plato is correct.....
Reply #2 - May 27th, 2019 at 7:16pm
 


Where justice reigns, 'tis freedom to obey.

- James Montgomery

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Jasin
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Re: If that proposition by Plato is correct.....
Reply #3 - May 27th, 2019 at 11:49pm
 
Heaven and Hell are one and the same.
God is Satan is God is Satan.

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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The Reboot
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Re: If that proposition by Plato is correct.....
Reply #4 - May 28th, 2019 at 12:52pm
 
Yadda wrote on May 27th, 2019 at 9:09am:



"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws."

- Plato (427-347 BC)


If that proposition by Plato is correct.....


Wouldn't we all enjoy greater personal freedoms and safety [for the majority], if collectively, we determined [and agreed] to enable laws, to remove [from a society of men] those persons who negligently or intentionally cause harm to others ?

Under such a regime [of actively seeking to permanently remove the 'wolves' from any society],
wouldn't such a society of men be more likely to achieve a peaceful, prosperous, and harmonious political state, for that society of men ?

e.g.
Permanently remove murderers from society.

Permanently remove persistent thieves.

Permanently remove those who [without cause] persistently assault and cause harm to others.




PROPOSITION;
Where men and women come together to live in a society, for the sake of their mutual benefit [and safety],
wouldn't a primary objective for that collective society of men be;

1/ To keep the meadow safe, for the sheep.

2/ To ban the wolves [from having access to the meadow].

?


'the meadow' = = any society of men

'the sheep' = = peaceful, productive people/citizens.

'wolves' = = 'predators'



PROPOSITION;
There can be no peace and there can be no safety [for any group of sheep], if the sheep are willing to permit wolves to enter their meadow, and predate upon the sheep [....as we know all wolves are want to do].


?




The problem with this, in my experience, is that the 'sheep' aren't the best judge of character.

How long before the 'sheep herder' becomes a 'wolf' for trying to keep his meadow safe from predators?
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greggerypeccary
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Re: If that proposition by Plato is correct.....
Reply #5 - May 28th, 2019 at 1:12pm
 
The Reboot wrote on May 28th, 2019 at 12:52pm:
The problem with this, in my experience, is that the 'sheep' aren't the best judge of character.

How long before the 'sheep herder' becomes a 'wolf' for trying to keep his meadow safe from predators?


Nailed it.

I was thinking of a way to say that, and you expressed it perfectly.

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Jasin
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Re: If that proposition by Plato is correct.....
Reply #6 - May 28th, 2019 at 1:49pm
 
Watch out Reboot.
He's onto you.  Wink
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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The Reboot
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Re: If that proposition by Plato is correct.....
Reply #7 - May 29th, 2019 at 11:08am
 
Jasin wrote on May 28th, 2019 at 1:49pm:
Watch out Reboot.
He's onto you.  Wink


According to the lemon party here, I wouldn't be his type?  Cheesy
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Super Nova
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Re: If that proposition by Plato is correct.....
Reply #8 - May 29th, 2019 at 4:07pm
 
"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws."
- Plato (427-347 BC)


Even good people need laws, they are the foundation of a society.

Also there are bad law made by the do gooders who will with good intention tell everyone how to live their lives.

One could break the law and later be a valuable member of a society.

Society needs those people who will disrupt to allow a society to evolve. Are they bad, not always.

If the law says, thou shall not kill in any circumstances and someone bad threatens your family... I would break the law.

There are countries with law to outlawing unmarried sex, being gay, wife not obeying a mans command, rape is Ok if it is your wife ...etc. Does breaking these laws make you bad.

We need wolfs and the sheep need to toughen up.
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The Reboot
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Re: If that proposition by Plato is correct.....
Reply #9 - May 29th, 2019 at 4:16pm
 
Super Nova wrote on May 29th, 2019 at 4:07pm:
"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws."
- Plato (427-347 BC)


Even good people need laws, they are the foundation of a society.

Also there are bad law made by the do gooders who will with good intention tell everyone how to live their lives.

One could break the law and later be a valuable member of a society.

Society needs those people who will disrupt to allow a society to evolve. Are they bad, not always.

If the law says, thou shall not kill in any circumstances and someone bad threatens your family... I would break the law.

There are countries with law to outlawing unmarried sex, being gay, wife not obeying a mans command, rape is Ok if it is your wife ...etc. Does breaking these laws make you bad.

We need wolfs and the sheep need to toughen up.


Brilliant.

I don't define good and bad according to the standards that governments and society sets.

In fact, I find the Australian "justice" system to be a complete farce that is by proxy evil due to its tendency to keep dumping pieces of shite paedos on our streets to reoffend. "They" try to make out like they are "taking the high road", by giving these shitecunts a "second chance" and treating them like victims.

Like many things, I suppose it's about perspective.
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Re: If that proposition by Plato is correct.....
Reply #10 - May 29th, 2019 at 4:19pm
 
Quote:
"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws."
- Plato (427-347 BC)


The problem is that dividing the world into "Good" and "Bad" people is overly simplistic and isn't realist.
It is a myth that the gun lobby like to perpetuate that "good" people need guns as protection from "bad" people

As with most things in life it is more of a spectrum. With the majority of people in the middle. They are "good" in the right circumstances but "bad" in the wrong circumstances.

And that is why we still need laws
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The Right Wing only believe in free speech when they agree with what is being said.
 
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Super Nova
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Re: If that proposition by Plato is correct.....
Reply #11 - May 29th, 2019 at 4:38pm
 
The Reboot wrote on May 29th, 2019 at 4:16pm:
Super Nova wrote on May 29th, 2019 at 4:07pm:
"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws."
- Plato (427-347 BC)


Even good people need laws, they are the foundation of a society.

Also there are bad law made by the do gooders who will with good intention tell everyone how to live their lives.

One could break the law and later be a valuable member of a society.

Society needs those people who will disrupt to allow a society to evolve. Are they bad, not always.

If the law says, thou shall not kill in any circumstances and someone bad threatens your family... I would break the law.

There are countries with law to outlawing unmarried sex, being gay, wife not obeying a mans command, rape is Ok if it is your wife ...etc. Does breaking these laws make you bad.

We need wolfs and the sheep need to toughen up.


Brilliant.

I don't define good and bad according to the standards that governments and society sets.

In fact, I find the Australian "justice" system to be a complete farce that is by proxy evil due to its tendency to keep dumping pieces of shite paedos on our streets to reoffend. "They" try to make out like they are "taking the high road", by giving these shitecunts a "second chance" and treating them like victims.

Like many things, I suppose it's about perspective.


If these bad people cannot be reformed like "shite paedos" then they should be removed from society and I don't agree they should be released.

Some deserve the death penalty IMO but that is a different debate.

We need wolf like people to keep the bad wolfs in check. I think of it like this analogy.

Sheep are protected by Good wolfs while surrounded by bad wolfs. Somedays the bad wolfs make a kill. But most of the sheep get to blissfully live their mundane existence unaware that it is the good wolfs that keep them safe.

Maybe more like Bristle Hound (I think he was his name) rather than Good Wolfs. Dog are from wolfs anyway.

...
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« Last Edit: May 29th, 2019 at 6:34pm by Super Nova »  
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Jasin
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Re: If that proposition by Plato is correct.....
Reply #12 - May 29th, 2019 at 7:16pm
 
There are Bad, Evil, Good & Pure people.

A Bad person learns from making a mistake for he/she has not the 'instruction' book of rules to guide them to success which the Good person follows.
But a Bad person is someone who isn't afraid to make a mistake in the pursuit of life and thus learns to cut his/her own  path in life. While the Good person follows the path chosen for them and if it ends, they just wait there - until given further instruction, unable to know how to make their own path.

Both have their advantages and disadvantages.

Evil does something bad, but does it again and again - fully aware of what he/she is doing, is wrong, but doesn't care.
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Jasin
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Re: If that proposition by Plato is correct.....
Reply #13 - May 29th, 2019 at 7:18pm
 
The Reboot wrote on May 29th, 2019 at 11:08am:
Jasin wrote on May 28th, 2019 at 1:49pm:
Watch out Reboot.
He's onto you.  Wink


According to the lemon party here, I wouldn't be his type?  Cheesy


*drinks a glass of lemonade and winks "I know what you mean"
Wink  Cheesy
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Super Nova
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Re: If that proposition by Plato is correct.....
Reply #14 - May 29th, 2019 at 7:22pm
 
Jasin wrote on May 29th, 2019 at 7:16pm:
There are Bad, Evil, Good & Pure people.

A Bad person learns from making a mistake for he/she has not the 'instruction' book of rules to guide them to success which the Good person follows.
But a Bad person is someone who isn't afraid to make a mistake in the pursuit of life and thus learns to cut his/her own  path in life. While the Good person follows the path chosen for them and if it ends, they just wait there - until given further instruction, unable to know how to make their own path.

Both have their advantages and disadvantages.

Evil does something bad, but does it again and again - fully aware of what he/she is doing, is wrong, but doesn't care.


Interesting addition of Evil vs Bad.
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