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15th State To Ditch Electoral College (Read 2183 times)
AiA
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15th State To Ditch Electoral College
May 23rd, 2019 at 3:59am
 
Nevada Poised To Become 15th State To Ditch Electoral College


Quote:
President Hillary Clinton?

That would have been the result of the 2016 presidential election — if the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact were in effect.

With a state Senate vote Tuesday, Nevada is close to becoming the latest state to sidestep the Electoral College when it comes to electing presidents.

According to the National Popular Vote organization, which oversees efforts to persuade states to join the compact, 14 states and the District of Columbia have agreed to pledge their 189 electors to the winner of the national popular vote — regardless of which candidate won the state. Nevada, with its six electoral votes, would bring the total to 195. Once 270 electors are pledged, the compact would kick in.



https://www.npr.org/2019/05/22/725616541/nevada-poised-to-become-15th-state-to-d...
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #1 - May 23rd, 2019 at 4:27am
 
We might as well let the democrats just appoint all future Presidents, no need to give the people a choice!
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #2 - May 23rd, 2019 at 4:30am
 
mortdooley wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 4:27am:
We might as well let the democrats just appoint all future Presidents, no need to give the people a choice!


They don't have 270 electors at this point.
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #3 - May 23rd, 2019 at 7:02am
 
Fifteen States need to clean out their government. If you don't understand the purpose of the electoral college go to wiki and state population. Start with the least populated states and add until it almost equals the population of New York city. That is why we don't go by a simple popular vote.
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #4 - May 23rd, 2019 at 8:58am
 
mortdooley wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 7:02am:
Fifteen States need to clean out their government. If you don't understand the purpose of the electoral college go to wiki and state population. Start with the least populated states and add until it almost equals the population of New York city. That is why we don't go by a simple popular vote.


It is the "Cultural Creatives" who are the job creators. And guess where they live?
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #5 - May 23rd, 2019 at 9:55am
 
So, you are saying people in low population States don't deserve a voice!
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #6 - May 23rd, 2019 at 10:05am
 
mortdooley wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 9:55am:
So, you are saying people in low population States don't deserve a voice!





They hardly get one now don't they?
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #7 - May 23rd, 2019 at 1:15pm
 
The American electoral system is sick and is slowly dying.  The use of simplistic first-past-the-post voting coupled with the unfair electoral college system results in skewed outcomes like the 2016 election where the least popular candidate now sits in the Oval Office.   The USA would be far better off if they moved to a preferential voting system and had a Parliamentary system.  It would provide the people with a real voice for a change and allow them to put into the White House who they actually want, rather than el Presidente' Trump.    Roll Eyes
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #8 - May 23rd, 2019 at 1:33pm
 
This is a ploy by the DNC to steal all upcoming elections.

Get rid of the electoral college and flood the US with dirty immigrants and give them free stuff so that they only vote for the DNC..
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #9 - May 23rd, 2019 at 1:39pm
 
The Mechanic wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 1:33pm:
This is a ploy by the DNC to steal all upcoming elections.

Get rid of the electoral college and flood the US with dirty immigrants and give them free stuff so that they only vote for the DNC..




Time for your meds I think
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #10 - May 23rd, 2019 at 4:45pm
 
Bojack Horseman wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 1:39pm:
The Mechanic wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 1:33pm:
This is a ploy by the DNC to steal all upcoming elections.

Get rid of the electoral college and flood the US with dirty immigrants and give them free stuff so that they only vote for the DNC..


Time for your meds I think


Long past, long past, indeed!   Roll Eyes
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #11 - May 23rd, 2019 at 10:11pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 1:15pm:
The American electoral system is sick and is slowly dying.  The use of simplistic first-past-the-post voting coupled with the unfair electoral college system results in skewed outcomes like the 2016 election where the least popular candidate now sits in the Oval Office.   The USA would be far better off if they moved to a preferential voting system and had a Parliamentary system.  It would provide the people with a real voice for a change and allow them to put into the White House who they actually want, rather than el Presidente' Trump.    Roll Eyes



As more people become dependent on government handouts they will choose to vote for more free stuff and turn their backs on freedom.


“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage.”
― Alexander Fraser Tytler

It is not the electoral system that is sick, it is the moral fiber of too many of it's citizens! I would guess the Progressives have led us to somewhere between selfishness and dependence. Welfare queens, drug dealers and gang bangers have a vote that is counted as much as those of honest citizens. They tend to concentrate in large cities. I feel my taxes are too high, they feel their free ride isn't good enough!

You call President Trump the least popular candidate but if you remove the votes for all candidates in the five boroughs of New York City and count the rest of the Country, he actually won the Popular vote! Another dirty trick the democrats have gotten away with is not counting the votes of US service people and their families outside of the Country! Regardless of where they serve, they are still considered citizens of their home State and retain all the same Right as though they currently reside there!
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #12 - May 23rd, 2019 at 10:17pm
 
mortdooley wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 4:27am:
We might as well let the democrats just appoint all future Presidents, no need to give the people a choice!


You really think that the people vote for the democrats every time ?

All the electoral college does is to take the result out of the voters hands.
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #13 - May 23rd, 2019 at 10:20pm
 
mortdooley wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 9:55am:
So, you are saying people in low population States don't deserve a voice!


You seem to suggest that their vote is 100 times the value of everyone else.
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #14 - May 23rd, 2019 at 11:19pm
 
Dnarever wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 10:17pm:
mortdooley wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 4:27am:
We might as well let the democrats just appoint all future Presidents, no need to give the people a choice!


You really think that the people vote for the democrats every time ?

All the electoral college does is to take the result out of the voters hands.



The Democratic Party thinks so or they wouldn't  be trying to change the rules!

Your opinion would have value if every State had only two electoral votes regardless of population and those two votes went to the winner of that State. However low population States may have only two or three electoral votes while high population States may have twenty or even thirty votes. The fact that whoever gets the most votes in each State gets all the Electoral votes thus making it possible for a total popular vote to fall on the side of the loser. Nothing wrong with that, the populations of our four or five largest cities shouldn't be the only places to have the power to elect a President!
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #15 - May 24th, 2019 at 1:14am
 
Mortie, are you saying that countries without an Electoral College aren't fairly represented?
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #16 - May 24th, 2019 at 9:38am
 
Yes - Ditch the Electoral College system - that way candidates only have to fly between major populated cities and **** the rest of the country.
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #17 - May 24th, 2019 at 9:45am
 
SerialBrain9 wrote on May 24th, 2019 at 9:38am:
Yes - Ditch the Electoral College system - that way candidates only have to fly between major populated cities and **** the rest of the country.



The red belt? Win win.
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #18 - May 24th, 2019 at 1:06pm
 
Would you want an Australian president to be elected by the people or appointed by Parliament ... and which political party would you like the president to represent?
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #19 - May 24th, 2019 at 2:57pm
 
mortdooley wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 10:11pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 1:15pm:
The American electoral system is sick and is slowly dying.  The use of simplistic first-past-the-post voting coupled with the unfair electoral college system results in skewed outcomes like the 2016 election where the least popular candidate now sits in the Oval Office.   The USA would be far better off if they moved to a preferential voting system and had a Parliamentary system.  It would provide the people with a real voice for a change and allow them to put into the White House who they actually want, rather than el Presidente' Trump.    Roll Eyes


As more people become dependent on government handouts they will choose to vote for more free stuff and turn their backs on freedom.


So, spoken like a real Rethuglian, hey, Mort?

"Free stuff" has been around for generations.   I don't see the majority of Americans voting for more "free stuff".   You really have a low opinion of your fellow Americans, don't you?   Roll Eyes

You have however, failed to address the points I made, Mort.  Hardly surprising, really.  I know you have no experience of alternative voting systems or Parliamentary Democracy.   You should experience them, they are superior to the primitive first-past-the-post system and your hideously complex and unrepresentative Congress and Senate.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #20 - May 24th, 2019 at 2:59pm
 
mortdooley wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 11:19pm:
Dnarever wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 10:17pm:
mortdooley wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 4:27am:
We might as well let the democrats just appoint all future Presidents, no need to give the people a choice!


You really think that the people vote for the democrats every time ?

All the electoral college does is to take the result out of the voters hands.



The Democratic Party thinks so or they wouldn't  be trying to change the rules!

Your opinion would have value if every State had only two electoral votes regardless of population and those two votes went to the winner of that State. However low population States may have only two or three electoral votes while high population States may have twenty or even thirty votes. The fact that whoever gets the most votes in each State gets all the Electoral votes thus making it possible for a total popular vote to fall on the side of the loser. Nothing wrong with that, the populations of our four or five largest cities shouldn't be the only places to have the power to elect a President!


So much for the principles of democracy, hey, Mort?   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #21 - May 24th, 2019 at 3:01pm
 
Bias_2012 wrote on May 24th, 2019 at 1:06pm:
Would you want an Australian president to be elected by the people or appointed by Parliament ... and which political party would you like the president to represent?


Parliament is effectively sovereign downunder.   Therefore, it would not like the idea of a President who was not chosen by it.   The people would mistakenly assume that the President is anything other than a Head of State - just like the GG at the moment.   Their powers are limited, as they should be.

As to which party should be President - they should represent the party which holds Government - afterall, they have the maximum number of seats in the Parliament (usually).


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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #22 - May 24th, 2019 at 3:18pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on May 24th, 2019 at 3:01pm:
Bias_2012 wrote on May 24th, 2019 at 1:06pm:
Would you want an Australian president to be elected by the people or appointed by Parliament ... and which political party would you like the president to represent?


Parliament is effectively sovereign downunder.   Therefore, it would not like the idea of a President who was not chosen by it.   The people would mistakenly assume that the President is anything other than a Head of State - just like the GG at the moment.   Their powers are limited, as they should be.

As to which party should be President - they should represent the party which holds Government - afterall, they have the maximum number of seats in the Parliament (usually).




Again, many Australian voters are imbeciles.

Using the term 'President' would just confuse them.

The next time we vote to become a Republic, we should use a different term - 'Head of State', for example.

The term 'President' is one of the things that scares off many of the (ignorant) voters.



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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #23 - May 24th, 2019 at 3:45pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on May 24th, 2019 at 2:59pm:
mortdooley wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 11:19pm:
Dnarever wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 10:17pm:
mortdooley wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 4:27am:
We might as well let the democrats just appoint all future Presidents, no need to give the people a choice!


You really think that the people vote for the democrats every time ?

All the electoral college does is to take the result out of the voters hands.



The Democratic Party thinks so or they wouldn't  be trying to change the rules!

Your opinion would have value if every State had only two electoral votes regardless of population and those two votes went to the winner of that State. However low population States may have only two or three electoral votes while high population States may have twenty or even thirty votes. The fact that whoever gets the most votes in each State gets all the Electoral votes thus making it possible for a total popular vote to fall on the side of the loser. Nothing wrong with that, the populations of our four or five largest cities shouldn't be the only places to have the power to elect a President!


So much for the principles of democracy, hey, Mort?   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


You seem to forget, the United States is not a democracy, it's a Constitutional Republic
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #24 - May 24th, 2019 at 4:34pm
 
Bias_2012 wrote on May 24th, 2019 at 3:45pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 24th, 2019 at 2:59pm:
mortdooley wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 11:19pm:
Dnarever wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 10:17pm:
mortdooley wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 4:27am:
We might as well let the democrats just appoint all future Presidents, no need to give the people a choice!


You really think that the people vote for the democrats every time ?

All the electoral college does is to take the result out of the voters hands.



The Democratic Party thinks so or they wouldn't  be trying to change the rules!

Your opinion would have value if every State had only two electoral votes regardless of population and those two votes went to the winner of that State. However low population States may have only two or three electoral votes while high population States may have twenty or even thirty votes. The fact that whoever gets the most votes in each State gets all the Electoral votes thus making it possible for a total popular vote to fall on the side of the loser. Nothing wrong with that, the populations of our four or five largest cities shouldn't be the only places to have the power to elect a President!


So much for the principles of democracy, hey, Mort?   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


You seem to forget, the United States is not a democracy, it's a Constitutional Republic


It elects it's el Presidente' through a flawed Democratic election though...   Roll Eyes
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #25 - May 24th, 2019 at 6:32pm
 
Source:      
WIKIPEDIA
     Quote:
There have been
five
United States presidential elections in which the winner lost the popular vote including the 1824 election, which was the first U.S. presidential election where the popular vote was recorded.[1]
Losing the popular vote means securing less of the national popular vote than the person who received either a majority or a plurality of the vote.[2][3]......
continued





Quote:
◆  In 1824 Andrew Jackson won the popular vote but got less than 50 percent of the electoral votes. John Quincy Adams became the next president when he was picked by the House of Representatives.

◆   In 1876 Samuel Tilden won the popular vote but lost the election when Rutherford B. Hayes got 185 electoral votes to Tilden’s 184.

◆   In 1888 Grover Cleveland won the popular vote but lost the election when Benjamin Harrison got 233 electoral votes to Cleveland’s 168.

◆    In 2000 Al Gore won the popular vote but lost the election to George Bush. In the most highly contested election in modern history, the U.S. Supreme Court stopped the Florida recount of ballots, giving Bush the state’s 25 electoral votes for a total of 271 to Gore’s 255.

◆   In 2016 Hillary Clinton won 48.2 percent of the total popular vote to Donald Trump's 46.1 percent, but lost the election to Trump. Trump won 306 electoral votes to Clinton's 232.
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #26 - May 24th, 2019 at 7:16pm
 
..



Why the ‘National Popular Vote’ scheme
is Unconstitutional






Source:      
Daily Caller
       Quote:
The U.S. Supreme Court says each state legislature has “plenary” (complete) power to decide how its state’s presidential electors are chosen.

But suppose a state legislature decided to raise cash by selling its electors to the highest bidder. Do you think the Supreme Court would uphold such a measure?


If your answer is “no,” then you intuitively grasp a basic principle of constitutional law—one overlooked by those proposing the “National Popular Vote Compact” (NPV).

NPV is a plan to change how we elect our president. Under the plan, each state signs a compact to award all its electoral votes to the presidential candidate who wins the national popular vote. The compact comes into effect when states with a majority of presidential electors sign on.....

In assessing the constitutionality of NPV, you have to consider some of its central features. First, NPV abandons the idea that presidential electors represent the people of their own states. Second, it discards an election system balanced among interests and values in favor of one recognizing only national popularity. That popularity need not be high: A state joining the NPV compact agrees to assign its electors to even the winner of a tiny plurality in a multi-candidate election.

Third, because NPV states would have a majority of votes in the Electoral College, NPV would effectively repeal the Constitution’s provision for run-off elections in the House of Representatives.

Fourth, NPV requires each state’s election officer to apply the vote tabulations certified by other state election officers—even if those tabulations are known to be fraudulent or erroneous.  Indeed, NPV would give state politicians powerful incentives to inflate, by fair means or foul, their vote totals relative to other states.

Don’t changes that sweeping require a constitutional amendment?

In answer to this question, NPV advocates point out that the Constitution seemingly gives state legislatures unlimited authority to decide how their electors are appointed. They further note that the Constitution recognizes the reserved power of states to make compacts with each other. Although the Constitution’s text requires that interstate compacts be approved by Congress, NPV advocates claim congressional approval of NPV is not necessary. They observe that in U.S. Steel v. Multistate Tax Comm’n (1978) the Supreme Court held that Congress must approve a compact only when the compact increases state power at the expense of federal power.

NPV advocates may be wrong about congressional approval. It is unclear that the justices would follow U.S. Steel’s ruling now. The Constitution’s language requiring congressional approval is crystal clear, and the court today is much more respectful of the Constitution’s text and historical meaning than it was in 1978. Moreover, you can make a good argument that U.S. Steel requires congressional approval for NPV because NPV would weaken federal institutions: It would (1) abolish the role of the U.S. House of Representatives in the electoral process and (2) alter the presidential election system without congressional involvement. Furthermore, even the U.S. Steel case suggested that compacts require congressional approval whenever they “impact . . . our federal structure.”

A more fundamental problem with NPV, however, is that with or without congressional approval it violates a central principle of constitutional law.

The Constitution recognizes two kinds of powers: (1) those reserved by the Tenth Amendment in the states by reason of state sovereignty (“reserved powers”) and (2) those created and granted by the Constitution itself (“delegated powers”). Reserved powers are, in James Madison’s words, “numerous and indefinite,” but delegated powers are “few and defined.”

A state’s power to enter into a compact with other states is reserved in nature, and it almost always involves other reserved powers, such as taxation and water use. Such was the compact examined by the Supreme Court in the U.S. Steel case.

As for delegated powers, the Constitution grants most of these to agents of the federal government. However, it also grants some to entities outside the federal government. Recipients include state legislatures, state governors, state and federal conventions, and presidential electors.

The scope of delegated powers is “defined” by the Constitution’s language, construed in light of its underlying purpose and its historical context. If state lawmakers or officers try to employ a delegated power in a way not sanctioned by its purpose and scope, the courts intervene.

For example, the courts often have voided efforts to exercise delegated powers in the constitutional amendment process in ways inconsistent with purpose or historical understanding. This is true even if the attempt superficially complies with the Constitution’s text.........
continued




The SCOTUS will undoubtedly become involved because there are a few obvious Constitutional issues & safeguards in jeopardy.



..

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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #27 - May 24th, 2019 at 8:37pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on May 24th, 2019 at 3:01pm:
Bias_2012 wrote on May 24th, 2019 at 1:06pm:
Would you want an Australian president to be elected by the people or appointed by Parliament ... and which political party would you like the president to represent?


Parliament is effectively sovereign downunder.   Therefore, it would not like the idea of a President who was not chosen by it.   The people would mistakenly assume that the President is anything other than a Head of State - just like the GG at the moment.   Their powers are limited, as they should be.

As to which party should be President - they should represent the party which holds Government - afterall, they have the maximum number of seats in the Parliament (usually).




So what powers should the Head of State have?
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #28 - May 24th, 2019 at 10:45pm
 
Bias_2012 wrote on May 24th, 2019 at 8:37pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 24th, 2019 at 3:01pm:
Bias_2012 wrote on May 24th, 2019 at 1:06pm:
Would you want an Australian president to be elected by the people or appointed by Parliament ... and which political party would you like the president to represent?


Parliament is effectively sovereign downunder.   Therefore, it would not like the idea of a President who was not chosen by it.   The people would mistakenly assume that the President is anything other than a Head of State - just like the GG at the moment.   Their powers are limited, as they should be.

As to which party should be President - they should represent the party which holds Government - afterall, they have the maximum number of seats in the Parliament (usually).


So what powers should the Head of State have?


Basically what the GG presently enjoys.   Apart from his "Reserve Powers", all they need do is sign bills into law, attend fetes, launch ships, etc.  you know, the stuff that figureheads do.

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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #29 - May 25th, 2019 at 12:22am
 
Brian Ross wrote on May 24th, 2019 at 10:45pm:
Bias_2012 wrote on May 24th, 2019 at 8:37pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 24th, 2019 at 3:01pm:
Bias_2012 wrote on May 24th, 2019 at 1:06pm:
Would you want an Australian president to be elected by the people or appointed by Parliament ... and which political party would you like the president to represent?


Parliament is effectively sovereign downunder.   Therefore, it would not like the idea of a President who was not chosen by it.   The people would mistakenly assume that the President is anything other than a Head of State - just like the GG at the moment.   Their powers are limited, as they should be.

As to which party should be President - they should represent the party which holds Government - afterall, they have the maximum number of seats in the Parliament (usually).


So what powers should the Head of State have?


Basically what the GG presently enjoys.   Apart from his "Reserve Powers", all they need do is sign bills into law, attend fetes, launch ships, etc.  you know, the stuff that figureheads do.



That's what we've got now


Now, you are criticizing the US for not having a fair democratic election of the President, but you hold the view that it's ok if an Australian Head of State be appointed by Parliament ... and then you reckon the Head of State should represent the Government .... what about the Australian people, who will represent them as Head of State?

I can only assume that you want the idea of the National Popular Vote and Electoral College dropped in the US and just let Congress appoint the President ... that's the logic of your thinking - am I wrong?
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #30 - May 25th, 2019 at 12:41am
 
Brian Ross wrote on May 24th, 2019 at 2:57pm:
mortdooley wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 10:11pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 1:15pm:
The American electoral system is sick and is slowly dying.  The use of simplistic first-past-the-post voting coupled with the unfair electoral college system results in skewed outcomes like the 2016 election where the least popular candidate now sits in the Oval Office.   The USA would be far better off if they moved to a preferential voting system and had a Parliamentary system.  It would provide the people with a real voice for a change and allow them to put into the White House who they actually want, rather than el Presidente' Trump.    Roll Eyes


As more people become dependent on government handouts they will choose to vote for more free stuff and turn their backs on freedom.


So, spoken like a real Rethuglian, hey, Mort?

"Free stuff" has been around for generations.   I don't see the majority of Americans voting for more "free stuff".   You really have a low opinion of your fellow Americans, don't you?   Roll Eyes

You have however, failed to address the points I made, Mort.  Hardly surprising, really.  I know you have no experience of alternative voting systems or Parliamentary Democracy.   You should experience them, they are superior to the primitive first-past-the-post system and your hideously complex and unrepresentative Congress and Senate.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes




If you don't see the "free Sh1t Army" you haven't looked at the Bernie Sanders crowd!

You haven't made any points, just posted your opinion. Texas has a much better grasp of how our representative Republic is intended to work. Here Congress only meets every other year and is poorly paid which is a good thing. Because the paycheck is small these people have to support themselves with real jobs. Because the distance between their districts and the Capital is relatively close to most they don't live away from the constituents when Congress isn't in session. My Representative in Austin has a successful Insurance Agency in the City I live just outside of.  I can drive from my home to the Capital in less than three hours.

https://www.thoughtco.com/salaries-and-benefits-of-congress-members-3322282

However those who make it to Washington:

Rank-and-File Members:
The current salary (2019) for rank-and-file members of the House and Senate is $174,000 per year.
Members are free to turn down pay increase and some choose to do so.
In a complex system of calculations, administered by the U.S. Office of Personnel Management, congressional pay rates also affect the salaries of federal judges and other senior government executives.
Congress: Leadership Members' Salary (2019)
Leaders of the House and Senate are paid a higher salary than rank-and-file members.
Senate Leadership
Majority Party Leader - $193,400
Minority Party Leader - $193,400
House Leadership
Speaker of the House - $223,500
Majority Leader - $193,400
Minority Leader - $193,400

Each Member of both Houses of Congress have an expense budget of over a million dollars a year for Staff and everything else they can spend it on.

Without term limits these people represent their own interests over those of the voters and that is the flaw in the system. Political contributions to influence their votes while they lie to the Public that the problem is the other guy, whoever that is at the moment.

When the government robs Peter to pay Paul it can always depend on Pauls vote. I don't have a poor opinion of my fellow Americans, I have a poor opinion of the people who have become dependent on those of us who pull our own weight! Charity should be returned to the Churches and the people who receive support should have to face those who care for them rather than a free check from a faceless government department. If you need help, we will find something for you to do in return.
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #31 - May 25th, 2019 at 12:58am
 
Brian Ross wrote on May 24th, 2019 at 4:34pm:
Bias_2012 wrote on May 24th, 2019 at 3:45pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 24th, 2019 at 2:59pm:
mortdooley wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 11:19pm:
Dnarever wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 10:17pm:
mortdooley wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 4:27am:
We might as well let the democrats just appoint all future Presidents, no need to give the people a choice!


You really think that the people vote for the democrats every time ?

All the electoral college does is to take the result out of the voters hands.



The Democratic Party thinks so or they wouldn't  be trying to change the rules!

Your opinion would have value if every State had only two electoral votes regardless of population and those two votes went to the winner of that State. However low population States may have only two or three electoral votes while high population States may have twenty or even thirty votes. The fact that whoever gets the most votes in each State gets all the Electoral votes thus making it possible for a total popular vote to fall on the side of the loser. Nothing wrong with that, the populations of our four or five largest cities shouldn't be the only places to have the power to elect a President!


So much for the principles of democracy, hey, Mort?   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


You seem to forget, the United States is not a democracy, it's a Constitutional Republic


It elects it's el Presidente' through a flawed Democratic election though...   Roll Eyes




The problem isn't the election process, it is the nomination process. They let everyone in the Primary answer the same questions rather than in the past when different questions were asked to favor one candidate over the rest. They probably won't do that again, it gave a fair chance to all the candidates. If they had done that in 2012 we would have probably elected Ron Paul President.
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #32 - May 25th, 2019 at 12:19pm
 
mortdooley wrote on May 25th, 2019 at 12:41am:
Brian Ross wrote on May 24th, 2019 at 2:57pm:
mortdooley wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 10:11pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 1:15pm:
The American electoral system is sick and is slowly dying.  The use of simplistic first-past-the-post voting coupled with the unfair electoral college system results in skewed outcomes like the 2016 election where the least popular candidate now sits in the Oval Office.   The USA would be far better off if they moved to a preferential voting system and had a Parliamentary system.  It would provide the people with a real voice for a change and allow them to put into the White House who they actually want, rather than el Presidente' Trump.    Roll Eyes


As more people become dependent on government handouts they will choose to vote for more free stuff and turn their backs on freedom.


So, spoken like a real Rethuglian, hey, Mort?

"Free stuff" has been around for generations.   I don't see the majority of Americans voting for more "free stuff".   You really have a low opinion of your fellow Americans, don't you?   Roll Eyes

You have however, failed to address the points I made, Mort.  Hardly surprising, really.  I know you have no experience of alternative voting systems or Parliamentary Democracy.   You should experience them, they are superior to the primitive first-past-the-post system and your hideously complex and unrepresentative Congress and Senate.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes




If you don't see the "free Sh1t Army" you haven't looked at the Bernie Sanders crowd!


As I said, you have rather a low opinion of your fellow Americans, Mort.  It does not become you to say such things about people who are just as entitled to their opinion as you are.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes

Quote:
You haven't made any points, just posted your opinion. Texas has a much better grasp of how our representative Republic is intended to work. Here Congress only meets every other year and is poorly paid which is a good thing. Because the paycheck is small these people have to support themselves with real jobs. Because the distance between their districts and the Capital is relatively close to most they don't live away from the constituents when Congress isn't in session. My Representative in Austin has a successful Insurance Agency in the City I live just outside of.  I can drive from my home to the Capital in less than three hours.


Immaterial to the points I made, Mort.  Why not address them?  Too difficult perhaps because of your stunning lack of experience of such matters?  Mmmm?   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #33 - May 25th, 2019 at 12:23pm
 
mortdooley wrote on May 25th, 2019 at 12:58am:
Brian Ross wrote on May 24th, 2019 at 4:34pm:
Bias_2012 wrote on May 24th, 2019 at 3:45pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 24th, 2019 at 2:59pm:
mortdooley wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 11:19pm:
Dnarever wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 10:17pm:
mortdooley wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 4:27am:
We might as well let the democrats just appoint all future Presidents, no need to give the people a choice!


You really think that the people vote for the democrats every time ?

All the electoral college does is to take the result out of the voters hands.



The Democratic Party thinks so or they wouldn't  be trying to change the rules!

Your opinion would have value if every State had only two electoral votes regardless of population and those two votes went to the winner of that State. However low population States may have only two or three electoral votes while high population States may have twenty or even thirty votes. The fact that whoever gets the most votes in each State gets all the Electoral votes thus making it possible for a total popular vote to fall on the side of the loser. Nothing wrong with that, the populations of our four or five largest cities shouldn't be the only places to have the power to elect a President!


So much for the principles of democracy, hey, Mort?   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


You seem to forget, the United States is not a democracy, it's a Constitutional Republic


It elects it's el Presidente' through a flawed Democratic election though...   Roll Eyes


The problem isn't the election process, it is the nomination process. They let everyone in the Primary answer the same questions rather than in the past when different questions were asked to favor one candidate over the rest. They probably won't do that again, it gave a fair chance to all the candidates. If they had done that in 2012 we would have probably elected Ron Paul President.


I've never seen the point of having first a primary process and then the actual election.  The party should nominate who they think is the best for the job, rather than appealling to the public for their opinion (for the nominations).   Just hold the bloody election.

Last week we had a Federal Election downunder.  I worked on a Polling Booth as an Election Commission employee.  The number of remarks made about the difference between the US and Downunder were interesting.   An election every two years?  No way, mate.  No one was interested.   Once every three years is more than often enough!   Roll Eyes

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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #34 - May 25th, 2019 at 12:38pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on May 25th, 2019 at 12:23pm:
mortdooley wrote on May 25th, 2019 at 12:58am:
Brian Ross wrote on May 24th, 2019 at 4:34pm:
Bias_2012 wrote on May 24th, 2019 at 3:45pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 24th, 2019 at 2:59pm:
mortdooley wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 11:19pm:
Dnarever wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 10:17pm:
mortdooley wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 4:27am:
We might as well let the democrats just appoint all future Presidents, no need to give the people a choice!


You really think that the people vote for the democrats every time ?

All the electoral college does is to take the result out of the voters hands.



The Democratic Party thinks so or they wouldn't  be trying to change the rules!

Your opinion would have value if every State had only two electoral votes regardless of population and those two votes went to the winner of that State. However low population States may have only two or three electoral votes while high population States may have twenty or even thirty votes. The fact that whoever gets the most votes in each State gets all the Electoral votes thus making it possible for a total popular vote to fall on the side of the loser. Nothing wrong with that, the populations of our four or five largest cities shouldn't be the only places to have the power to elect a President!


So much for the principles of democracy, hey, Mort?   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


You seem to forget, the United States is not a democracy, it's a Constitutional Republic


It elects it's el Presidente' through a flawed Democratic election though...   Roll Eyes


The problem isn't the election process, it is the nomination process. They let everyone in the Primary answer the same questions rather than in the past when different questions were asked to favor one candidate over the rest. They probably won't do that again, it gave a fair chance to all the candidates. If they had done that in 2012 we would have probably elected Ron Paul President.


I've never seen the point of having first a primary process and then the actual election.  The party should nominate who they think is the best for the job, rather than appealling to the public for their opinion (for the nominations).   Just hold the bloody election.


That's what a primary is, dear - a party nominating its representatives.

Some states have opened this up to non-party members. I'm not sure how that's supposed to work.
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #35 - May 25th, 2019 at 12:42pm
 
Abu wrote on May 25th, 2019 at 12:38pm:
That's what a primary is, dear - a party nominating its representatives.



A bit like the Libs and Labs preselection  process
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #36 - May 25th, 2019 at 1:07pm
 
Bias_2012 wrote on May 25th, 2019 at 12:42pm:
Abu wrote on May 25th, 2019 at 12:38pm:
That's what a primary is, dear - a party nominating its representatives.



A bit like the Libs and Labs preselection  process


Exactly. That's the one where the factional operatives haggle over who gets up.
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #37 - May 25th, 2019 at 4:41pm
 
Abu wrote on May 25th, 2019 at 12:38pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 25th, 2019 at 12:23pm:
mortdooley wrote on May 25th, 2019 at 12:58am:
Brian Ross wrote on May 24th, 2019 at 4:34pm:
Bias_2012 wrote on May 24th, 2019 at 3:45pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 24th, 2019 at 2:59pm:
mortdooley wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 11:19pm:
Dnarever wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 10:17pm:
mortdooley wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 4:27am:
We might as well let the democrats just appoint all future Presidents, no need to give the people a choice!


You really think that the people vote for the democrats every time ?

All the electoral college does is to take the result out of the voters hands.



The Democratic Party thinks so or they wouldn't  be trying to change the rules!

Your opinion would have value if every State had only two electoral votes regardless of population and those two votes went to the winner of that State. However low population States may have only two or three electoral votes while high population States may have twenty or even thirty votes. The fact that whoever gets the most votes in each State gets all the Electoral votes thus making it possible for a total popular vote to fall on the side of the loser. Nothing wrong with that, the populations of our four or five largest cities shouldn't be the only places to have the power to elect a President!


So much for the principles of democracy, hey, Mort?   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


You seem to forget, the United States is not a democracy, it's a Constitutional Republic


It elects it's el Presidente' through a flawed Democratic election though...   Roll Eyes


The problem isn't the election process, it is the nomination process. They let everyone in the Primary answer the same questions rather than in the past when different questions were asked to favor one candidate over the rest. They probably won't do that again, it gave a fair chance to all the candidates. If they had done that in 2012 we would have probably elected Ron Paul President.


I've never seen the point of having first a primary process and then the actual election.  The party should nominate who they think is the best for the job, rather than appealling to the public for their opinion (for the nominations).   Just hold the bloody election.


That's what a primary is, dear - a party nominating its representatives.

Some states have opened this up to non-party members. I'm not sure how that's supposed to work.


The clear difference though, Karnal is that parties do it behind closed doors.  The Septics make a song and dance routine out of everything and put on a stage show.   Who cares?  I really have to wonder about that.   Just put forward your nominee and say, "we worked it out backstage, OK?"

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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #38 - May 25th, 2019 at 9:05pm
 
Quote:
The American electoral system is sick and is slowly dying.  The use of simplistic first-past-the-post voting coupled with the unfair electoral college system results in skewed outcomes like the 2016 election where the least popular candidate now sits in the Oval Office.   The USA would be far better off if they moved to a preferential voting system and had a Parliamentary system.  It would provide the people with a real voice for a change and allow them to put into the White House who they actually want, rather than el Presidente' Trump.


That is an opinion, nothing more.

Quote:
I've never seen the point of having first a primary process and then the actual election.  The party should nominate who they think is the best for the job, rather than appealling to the public for their opinion (for the nominations).   Just hold the bloody election.


At that point you might as well flip a coin and have the nominees call it in mid air!


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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #39 - May 26th, 2019 at 7:28pm
 
mortdooley wrote on May 25th, 2019 at 9:05pm:
Quote:
The American electoral system is sick and is slowly dying.  The use of simplistic first-past-the-post voting coupled with the unfair electoral college system results in skewed outcomes like the 2016 election where the least popular candidate now sits in the Oval Office.   The USA would be far better off if they moved to a preferential voting system and had a Parliamentary system.  It would provide the people with a real voice for a change and allow them to put into the White House who they actually want, rather than el Presidente' Trump.


That is an opinion, nothing more.


Opinion that you need to address, Mort.  Otherwise, you just look like a h'ignorant hillbilly...  Roll Eyes

Quote:
Quote:
I've never seen the point of having first a primary process and then the actual election.  The party should nominate who they think is the best for the job, rather than appealling to the public for their opinion (for the nominations).   Just hold the bloody election.


At that point you might as well flip a coin and have the nominees call it in mid air!


If it works, why not?

Downunder, nominees must seek pre-selection with their local party and prove they are, in their opinion, the best person to be the candidate for the next election.  Occasionally, central office will "parachute" in a candidate but those choices rarely get the support from the locals that they need to win their seat.   Sitting candidates aren't always assured of winning pre-selection either.

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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #40 - May 26th, 2019 at 9:14pm
 
If Popular vote is the measure then campaigning patterns will change

Policy will change to suit the narrative of the populous crowd rather than the good of the country
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #41 - May 27th, 2019 at 12:18am
 
Quote:
Opinion that you need to address, Mort.  Otherwise, you just look like a h'ignorant hillbilly


I know what a Parliamentary form of ownership of the general population is. A culture that is founded and evolved on the divine right of kings is not something I care to live under! That man that lives up the street is better than you and you are better than the one who lives down the street. Someone who speaks with a more cultured manner is your better and someone with a limited vocabulary makes you his better. Do you have bad teeth as well? We have never had a Class System to the degree the English and their colonies have, not had! As much as Washington tries to be our masters they haven't conquered us yet.

I visited western Kentucky a couple of weeks ago and the people are clean, well mannered and as intelligent as anyone. Most of the Snowflakes we are producing in the major cities have few life skills and a massive scene of entitlement. If you can't work with your hands, you probably are not of any value to society and you will never feel the sense of accomplishment the rest of us do.

Donald Trump wasn't the least popular candidate, people that actually have their own opinion voted him into Office. They are the people that think about the issues. The double standard became more than we could ignore! You may not know what a "Yellow Dog Democrat" is but that is the voter that will vote democrat no matter who or what is their candidate. A large number of people fall into this group. Ask them about any accomplishments of their preferred candidate and more often than not you get a "deer in the headlights" look from them. Tell them their preferred candidate supports issues that are actually those of the opponent and they agree with every point. Do that to the other side and it never works because they know what issues they support and oppose and then find the candidate who most represents their views.

That government is best which governs least
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #42 - May 27th, 2019 at 12:19am
 
Maqqa wrote on May 26th, 2019 at 9:14pm:
If Popular vote is the measure then campaigning patterns will change

Policy will change to suit the narrative of the populous crowd rather than the good of the country



Four ugly men and one hot looking woman vote on having sex, that is democracy!
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #43 - May 27th, 2019 at 2:00pm
 
mortdooley wrote on May 27th, 2019 at 12:18am:
Quote:
Opinion that you need to address, Mort.  Otherwise, you just look like a h'ignorant hillbilly


I know what a Parliamentary form of ownership of the general population is. A culture that is founded and evolved on the divine right of kings is not something I care to live under!


Interesting.  It appears the English Civil War and the Revolution of 1688 has just disappeared from your understanding of history, Mort.  I wonder why your education has been so deficit?  No one in the UK has believed in the "divine right of kings" since Charles I had his head chopped off at the end of the English Civil War.  Parliament is sovereign in the UK.  Time I think you learnt a little about history and the effects of both events had on the political life of the UK.  It will do you good to get out and to get some learnin' little man.

Quote:
That man that lives up the street is better than you and you are better than the one who lives down the street. Someone who speaks with a more cultured manner is your better and someone with a limited vocabulary makes you his better. Do you have bad teeth as well? We have never had a Class System to the degree the English and their colonies have, not had! As much as Washington tries to be our masters they haven't conquered us yet.


I am unsure what society you're talking about, Mort.  Downunder, we have lived a largely classless society since the mid-1880s.   So much so, that people sit in the front seat of taxis and actually talk to the driver!  Shock, horror, hey?  Time to grow up and look at the real world.   Roll Eyes

Quote:
I visited western Kentucky a couple of weeks ago and the people are clean, well mannered and as intelligent as anyone. Most of the Snowflakes we are producing in the major cities have few life skills and a massive scene of entitlement. If you can't work with your hands, you probably are not of any value to society and you will never feel the sense of accomplishment the rest of us do.


Does that include the two thirds of Americans that don't want Arabic numerals taught in school?  The 39% of Americans who believe the sun revolves around the Earth?  How about the many Americans who believe that pre-historic man lived with the Dinosaurs?  Mmmm?  Strange how your inadequate education system produces such results, hey?

I am sure the people of Kentucky are nice people but it seems the statistics just don't show they know about how the world indeed, the universe, actually works or what has occurred in the world's history.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes

Quote:
Donald Trump wasn't the least popular candidate, people that actually have their own opinion voted him into Office.


Ah, that would explain why more people voted for Hilary than they did for el Presidente' Trump, I take it.  Remember, he lost the popular vote.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes

Quote:
They are the people that think about the issues. The double standard became more than we could ignore! You may not know what a "Yellow Dog Democrat" is but that is the voter that will vote democrat no matter who or what is their candidate. A large number of people fall into this group. Ask them about any accomplishments of their preferred candidate and more often than not you get a "deer in the headlights" look from them. Tell them their preferred candidate supports issues that are actually those of the opponent and they agree with every point. Do that to the other side and it never works because they know what issues they support and oppose and then find the candidate who most represents their views.


Why am I not surprised by such ignorance amongst the majority of Americans, Mort?  It seems American society teaches it's people to be stupid, not to take an interest in politics and to look upon those that do as abnormal or something...   Roll Eyes

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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #44 - May 27th, 2019 at 5:08pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on May 27th, 2019 at 2:00pm:
Ah, that would explain why more people voted for Hilary than they did for el Presidente' Trump, I take it.  Remember, he lost the popular vote.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes



And yet you want a future Australian head of state appointed by Parliament, with no popular vote from the people at all
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #45 - May 27th, 2019 at 7:25pm
 
Bias_2012 wrote on May 27th, 2019 at 5:08pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 27th, 2019 at 2:00pm:
Ah, that would explain why more people voted for Hilary than they did for el Presidente' Trump, I take it.  Remember, he lost the popular vote.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes


And yet you want a future Australian head of state appointed by Parliament, with no popular vote from the people at all


Different political systems for different societies, Bias.   Roll Eyes

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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #46 - May 28th, 2019 at 12:18am
 
Quote:
I am unsure what society you're talking about, Mort.  Downunder, we have lived a largely classless society since the mid-1880s.   So much so, that people sit in the front seat of taxis and actually talk to the driver!  Shock, horror, hey?  Time to grow up and look at the real world.



Said the man who is better than his countrymen because unlike them he is not descended from the convict population banished to live on the other side of the world! Why would you distract a Taxi driver by talking to him? The people who swung the popular vote you keep referring to live in New York where  many of the Taxis have bullet proof partitions to protect them from the Hillary supporters.

Quote:
[quote]Interesting.  It appears the English Civil War and the Revolution of 1688 has just disappeared from your understanding of history, Mort.  I wonder why your education has been so deficit?  No one in the UK has believed in the "divine right of kings" since Charles I had his head chopped off at the end of the English Civil War.  Parliament is sovereign in the UK.  Time I think you learnt a little about history and the effects of both events had on the political life of the UK.  It will do you good to get out and to get some learnin' little man.


That just changed the faces of those at the top, it didn't improve the lives of the average person! Far too many people are only comfortable when there is a strong hand to run their lives or it wouldn't be tolerated. The kings are chosen by the political system and have different titles, same sh1t, different day!

Quote:
Does that include the two thirds of Americans that don't want Arabic numerals taught in school?  The 39% of Americans who believe the sun revolves around the Earth?  How about the many Americans who believe that pre-historic man lived with the Dinosaurs?  Mmmm?  Strange how your inadequate education system produces such results, hey?


You are going to have to provide me with links for this one, I don't know of anything two thirds of Americans agree on.

Quote:
Why am I not surprised by such ignorance amongst the majority of Americans, Mort?  It seems American society teaches it's people to be stupid, not to take an interest in politics and to look upon those that do as abnormal or something...


I wouldn't say most but just about all who support the Left with their votes and attacks on those who disagree are brain dead. The Progressive Left is busy rewriting the history books all the time. We have just about reached the level of "Fahrenheit 451" where oral history is the only one with truth to it.
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #47 - May 28th, 2019 at 2:53pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on May 27th, 2019 at 7:25pm:
Bias_2012 wrote on May 27th, 2019 at 5:08pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 27th, 2019 at 2:00pm:
Ah, that would explain why more people voted for Hilary than they did for el Presidente' Trump, I take it.  Remember, he lost the popular vote.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes


And yet you want a future Australian head of state appointed by Parliament, with no popular vote from the people at all


Different political systems for different societies, Bias.   Roll Eyes



That's right ... so don't criticize or complain about the way Americans want to work their political system
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #48 - May 28th, 2019 at 3:38pm
 
Bias_2012 wrote on May 27th, 2019 at 5:08pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 27th, 2019 at 2:00pm:
Ah, that would explain why more people voted for Hilary than they did for el Presidente' Trump, I take it.  Remember, he lost the popular vote.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes



And yet you want a future Australian head of state appointed by Parliament, with no popular vote from the people at all


When was the last time we had a popular vote for the Governor General, or the Monarch?

I'm curious.
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #49 - May 28th, 2019 at 3:44pm
 
Bias_2012 wrote on May 28th, 2019 at 2:53pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 27th, 2019 at 7:25pm:
Bias_2012 wrote on May 27th, 2019 at 5:08pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 27th, 2019 at 2:00pm:
Ah, that would explain why more people voted for Hilary than they did for el Presidente' Trump, I take it.  Remember, he lost the popular vote.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes


And yet you want a future Australian head of state appointed by Parliament, with no popular vote from the people at all


Different political systems for different societies, Bias.   Roll Eyes



That's right ... so don't criticize or complain about the way Americans want to work their political system


Why ever not?  When have you criticised the Americans for their ignorant comments about Australian political life, Bias?   I can't seem to find any such posts from you.  Interesting that, hey?   I am free to criticise American politics if I so desire.  Run along, little boy, back to the little kiddies' playground where it looks like you belong...   Roll Eyes

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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #50 - May 28th, 2019 at 4:18pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on May 28th, 2019 at 3:44pm:
Bias_2012 wrote on May 28th, 2019 at 2:53pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 27th, 2019 at 7:25pm:
Bias_2012 wrote on May 27th, 2019 at 5:08pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 27th, 2019 at 2:00pm:
Ah, that would explain why more people voted for Hilary than they did for el Presidente' Trump, I take it.  Remember, he lost the popular vote.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes


And yet you want a future Australian head of state appointed by Parliament, with no popular vote from the people at all


Different political systems for different societies, Bias.   Roll Eyes



That's right ... so don't criticize or complain about the way Americans want to work their political system


Why ever not?  When have you criticised the Americans for their ignorant comments about Australian political life, Bias?   I can't seem to find any such posts from you.  Interesting that, hey?   I am free to criticise American politics if I so desire.  Run along, little boy, back to the little kiddies' playground where it looks like you belong...   Roll Eyes



Americans have their own system

But an Australian head of state (President or whatever) should be elected by the people, not Parliament. The head of state must have allegiance to all the people without prejudice nor political allegiance.

A new Australian head of state (if ever we become a republic) must not be aligned to any political party or ideology, but only aligned to the Australian people as a whole
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« Last Edit: May 28th, 2019 at 5:20pm by Bias_2012 »  

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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #51 - May 28th, 2019 at 5:50pm
 
Bias_2012 wrote on May 28th, 2019 at 4:18pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 28th, 2019 at 3:44pm:
Bias_2012 wrote on May 28th, 2019 at 2:53pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 27th, 2019 at 7:25pm:
Bias_2012 wrote on May 27th, 2019 at 5:08pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 27th, 2019 at 2:00pm:
Ah, that would explain why more people voted for Hilary than they did for el Presidente' Trump, I take it.  Remember, he lost the popular vote.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes


And yet you want a future Australian head of state appointed by Parliament, with no popular vote from the people at all


Different political systems for different societies, Bias.   Roll Eyes



That's right ... so don't criticize or complain about the way Americans want to work their political system


Why ever not?  When have you criticised the Americans for their ignorant comments about Australian political life, Bias?   I can't seem to find any such posts from you.  Interesting that, hey?   I am free to criticise American politics if I so desire.  Run along, little boy, back to the little kiddies' playground where it looks like you belong...   Roll Eyes



Americans have their own system

But an Australian head of state (President or whatever) should be elected by the people, not Parliament. The head of state must have allegiance to all the people without prejudice nor political allegiance.


According to whom, Bias?  Many HoSs are not elected "by the people".  The problem is convincing "the people" that this a purely ceremonial position, except for the reserve powers, which are very powerful indeed, would be difficult as they are force-fed Hollywood bullshit 24x7.   The GG as it stands always acts on the advice of the Federal Executive Council which is chaired by the PM (and controlled by the PM).  The President would be expected to do the same.   The only time he didn't, he provoked a massive constitutional crisis which resounds to this day.

Quote:
A new Australian head of state (if ever we become a republic) must not be aligned to any political party or ideology, but only aligned to the Australian people as a whole


Parliament is sovereign, Bias.  Until you (and "the people") face that fact, you'll never see an Australian HoS.   I would love for my children to become an Australian President.  However, it will not happen.  Howard was clever in that he didn't ask whether we wanted to become a Republic and then present "the people" with a choice of models after a period of honest discussion, he just presented them with a choice of unacceptable models, so the referendum was defeated.   Roll Eyes
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #52 - May 28th, 2019 at 5:58pm
 
AiA wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 3:59am:
Nevada Poised To Become 15th State To Ditch Electoral College


Quote:
President Hillary Clinton?

That would have been the result of the 2016 presidential election — if the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact were in effect.

With a state Senate vote Tuesday, Nevada is close to becoming the latest state to sidestep the Electoral College when it comes to electing presidents.

According to the National Popular Vote organization, which oversees efforts to persuade states to join the compact, 14 states and the District of Columbia have agreed to pledge their 189 electors to the winner of the national popular vote — regardless of which candidate won the state. Nevada, with its six electoral votes, would bring the total to 195. Once 270 electors are pledged, the compact would kick in.



https://www.npr.org/2019/05/22/725616541/nevada-poised-to-become-15th-state-to-d...


I expect they control enough votes already to make it work.
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #53 - May 28th, 2019 at 9:22pm
 
mortdooley wrote on May 28th, 2019 at 12:18am:
Quote:
I am unsure what society you're talking about, Mort.  Downunder, we have lived a largely classless society since the mid-1880s.   So much so, that people sit in the front seat of taxis and actually talk to the driver!  Shock, horror, hey?  Time to grow up and look at the real world.


Said the man who is better than his countrymen because unlike them he is not descended from the convict population banished to live on the other side of the world!


Oh, no, I did not.  I merely pointed out, in regards to your attempt to insult me that you were wrong - I was not convict descended.   I am proud of my nation's history, convicts and all.  However, you being a Septic, it's obvious you're been reading "A Fatal Shore" - that contrived piece of rubbish.   Each Australian colony was unique in it's formation and mine was free, all the way.

Quote:
Why would you distract a Taxi driver by talking to him? The people who swung the popular vote you keep referring to live in New York where  many of the Taxis have bullet proof partitions to protect them from the Hillary supporters.


Such a nice attitude you have towards your fellow Americans.  Why would I want to chat to my fellow Australian who just happens to be driving me somewhere?  'cause I am socialable and I don't hold myself above him, merely because he is a taxi driver.  Basically, he is providing a service, he is not a servant.

Quote:
Quote:
Interesting.  It appears the English Civil War and the Revolution of 1688 has just disappeared from your understanding of history, Mort.  I wonder why your education has been so deficit?  No one in the UK has believed in the "divine right of kings" since Charles I had his head chopped off at the end of the English Civil War.  Parliament is sovereign in the UK.  Time I think you learnt a little about history and the effects of both events had on the political life of the UK.  It will do you good to get out and to get some learnin' little man.


That just changed the faces of those at the top, it didn't improve the lives of the average person! Far too many people are only comfortable when there is a strong hand to run their lives or it wouldn't be tolerated. The kings are chosen by the political system and have different titles, same sh1t, different day!


Oh, it took time, I will admit but the pace of change was steady and sure.  What it meant was that Parliament as sovereign and that the monarch ruled at it's pleasure.  Guess who elects Parliament?  The people.  Today, the UK is more democratic than the US it appears.  No need for an "electoral college", no need for the song and dance of the primaries, no way the Prime Minister can avoid the gaze of the people when he faces Parliament at Question Time.

Quote:
Quote:
Does that include the two thirds of Americans that don't want Arabic numerals taught in school?  The 39% of Americans who believe the sun revolves around the Earth?  How about the many Americans who believe that pre-historic man lived with the Dinosaurs?  Mmmm?  Strange how your inadequate education system produces such results, hey?


You are going to have to provide me with links for this one, I don't know of anything two thirds of Americans agree on.


Should Arabic numerals be taught in schools?

25% of Americans who believe the sun revolves around the Earth

Over 40% of Americans believe humans and dinosaurs shared the planet

Quote:
Quote:
Why am I not surprised by such ignorance amongst the majority of Americans, Mort?  It seems American society teaches it's people to be stupid, not to take an interest in politics and to look upon those that do as abnormal or something...


I wouldn't say most but just about all who support the Left with their votes and attacks on those who disagree are brain dead. The Progressive Left is busy rewriting the history books all the time. We have just about reached the level of "Fahrenheit 451" where oral history is the only one with truth to it.


And we have the regressive Right who disbelieve what the scientists are saying on so much.  Evolution, Global Warming, Pollution, etc., etc.   The regressive Right doesn't want even something like "Fahrenheit 451", they want people back in caves...   Roll Eyes

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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #54 - May 28th, 2019 at 10:05pm
 
freediver wrote on May 28th, 2019 at 5:58pm:
AiA wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 3:59am:
Nevada Poised To Become 15th State To Ditch Electoral College


Quote:
President Hillary Clinton?

That would have been the result of the 2016 presidential election — if the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact were in effect.

With a state Senate vote Tuesday, Nevada is close to becoming the latest state to sidestep the Electoral College when it comes to electing presidents.

According to the National Popular Vote organization, which oversees efforts to persuade states to join the compact, 14 states and the District of Columbia have agreed to pledge their 189 electors to the winner of the national popular vote — regardless of which candidate won the state. Nevada, with its six electoral votes, would bring the total to 195. Once 270 electors are pledged, the compact would kick in.



https://www.npr.org/2019/05/22/725616541/nevada-poised-to-become-15th-state-to-d...


I expect they control enough votes already to make it work.


What are you doing here?
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #55 - May 28th, 2019 at 11:03pm
 
freediver wrote on May 28th, 2019 at 5:58pm:
.......I expect they control enough votes already to make it work.


In order to have the desired affect 270 votes are required (presently they have 195).

The only problematic fly in the ointment for the Compact Movement will come from 5 votes...........Yes, 5 of the 9 votes in the United States Supreme Court that, based on the 230+ year old electoral process in the United States Constitution, they will, in my honest opinion, decide that what the States are attempting to do undermines the underpinnings of Article II, Section 1, Clause 3, & the 12th Amendment of the US Constitution, & therefore the laws devised by the individual States to basically do away with the Electoral College, are inconsistent with the US Constitution, & therefore are unconstitutional in total.


Quote:
In deciding how electors are appointed, state lawmakers may choose among a range of procedures. But they have a constitutional duty to choose a method consistent with the electoral system’s purpose and design. Attempting to convert electors into agents of other states—like selling them to the highest bidder—would be an unconstitutional breach of public trust.


Source: 
 
https://pagetwo.completecolorado.com/2019/02/04/why-the-national-popular-vote-scheme-is-unconstitutional/


ALSO:
 




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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #56 - May 29th, 2019 at 9:18am
 
Bias_2012 wrote on May 28th, 2019 at 4:18pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 28th, 2019 at 3:44pm:
Bias_2012 wrote on May 28th, 2019 at 2:53pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 27th, 2019 at 7:25pm:
Bias_2012 wrote on May 27th, 2019 at 5:08pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 27th, 2019 at 2:00pm:
Ah, that would explain why more people voted for Hilary than they did for el Presidente' Trump, I take it.  Remember, he lost the popular vote.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes


And yet you want a future Australian head of state appointed by Parliament, with no popular vote from the people at all


Different political systems for different societies, Bias.   Roll Eyes



That's right ... so don't criticize or complain about the way Americans want to work their political system


Why ever not?  When have you criticised the Americans for their ignorant comments about Australian political life, Bias?   I can't seem to find any such posts from you.  Interesting that, hey?   I am free to criticise American politics if I so desire.  Run along, little boy, back to the little kiddies' playground where it looks like you belong...   Roll Eyes



Americans have their own system

But an Australian head of state (President or whatever) should be elected by the people, not Parliament. The head of state must have allegiance to all the people without prejudice nor political allegiance.




When was the last time the Governor General or Monarch was elected by the people?
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #57 - May 30th, 2019 at 11:14pm
 
Quote:
Such a nice attitude you have towards your fellow Americans.  Why would I want to chat to my fellow Australian who just happens to be driving me somewhere?  'cause I am sociable and I don't hold myself above him, merely because he is a taxi driver.  Basically, he is providing a service, he is not a servant.


Actually I have never had a reason to use a Taxi, shuttle bus, tour bus, public rail but never a Taxi. I rent Vehicles and take myself where I choose to go. That being said I have had no problem speaking to the drivers. One that I recall was a woman from New Zealand who drove us from our cruise ship to the airport in Seattle. She told me how many preconceived beliefs she had about us and that they all proved wrong. When you criticize you don't know what you are talking about either, at least she was happy to be among people who were not the stereotype she was led to believe.

Quote:
Should Arabic numerals be taught in schools?

25% of Americans who believe the sun revolves around the Earth

Over 40% of Americans believe humans and dinosaurs shared the planet



Your links come from very bias sources and if not made up by them are a sampling of a very strange group and do not represent common beliefs.  They have no credibility!

Quote:
And we have the regressive Right who disbelieve what the scientists are saying on so much.  Evolution, Global Warming, Pollution, etc., etc.   The regressive Right doesn't want even something like "Fahrenheit 451", they want people back in caves...


Do you mean phony Scientists like "Bill Nye the science guy" who doesn't have any more education than I do! Or people who are so far outside of their expertise that their opinion is no better then the average citizen. Basically they use a system I have disagreed with at work. You start with the conclusion you want and work backwards to prove it ignoring any information that doesn't fit the agenda.

Funny you should mention caves, I am a big fan of "Earth Ships" which don't require loin clothes or saber tooth tigers. Passive systems to heat and cool buildings is a positive thing, trading carbon credits and not reducing pollution is counter productive. It is nothing more than a redistribution of wealth while continuing to live with dirty air!
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #58 - May 31st, 2019 at 6:55pm
 
mortdooley wrote on May 30th, 2019 at 11:14pm:
Quote:
Such a nice attitude you have towards your fellow Americans.  Why would I want to chat to my fellow Australian who just happens to be driving me somewhere?  'cause I am sociable and I don't hold myself above him, merely because he is a taxi driver.  Basically, he is providing a service, he is not a servant.


Actually I have never had a reason to use a Taxi, shuttle bus, tour bus, public rail but never a Taxi. I rent Vehicles and take myself where I choose to go. That being said I have had no problem speaking to the drivers. One that I recall was a woman from New Zealand who drove us from our cruise ship to the airport in Seattle. She told me how many preconceived beliefs she had about us and that they all proved wrong. When you criticize you don't know what you are talking about either, at least she was happy to be among people who were not the stereotype she was led to believe. .


Really?  I make no such assumptions about Americans - most are nice, hard working, industrious people.  Of course, many are also crazies who hug their fetish objects to themselves at night in order to ward off this mythical, tyrannical government that they fear so much, Mort.  You sound just like one of them for some strange reason.  I wonder why?   Roll Eyes

Quote:
Quote:
Should Arabic numerals be taught in schools?

25% of Americans who believe the sun revolves around the Earth

Over 40% of Americans believe humans and dinosaurs shared the planet



Your links come from very bias sources and if not made up by them are a sampling of a very strange group and do not represent common beliefs.  They have no credibility!.


Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  Insulting the message, rather than addressing the message that he conveys?  How unusual for you, Mort.  Rather an obvious and also rather a poor tactic.  Now, explain why they are "biased" and do not "represent common beliefs".   Their credentials appear more than adequate for the purposes of this discussion.  You'll just have to try harder, boyo.   Roll Eyes

Quote:
Quote:
And we have the regressive Right who disbelieve what the scientists are saying on so much.  Evolution, Global Warming, Pollution, etc., etc.   The regressive Right doesn't want even something like "Fahrenheit 451", they want people back in caves...


Do you mean phony Scientists like "Bill Nye the science guy" who doesn't have any more education than I do! Or people who are so far outside of their expertise that their opinion is no better then the average citizen. Basically they use a system I have disagreed with at work. You start with the conclusion you want and work backwards to prove it ignoring any information that doesn't fit the agenda.


Where did I quote Bill Nye, Mort?  That he is a scientific commentator and knows and understands the science about which he commentates seems to have missed you by, BTW.  I am referring to the scientists who have been forecasting about Global Warming now for nearly a generation and their forecasts appear to being proved right.  Funny that, hey?   Roll Eyes

Quote:
Funny you should mention caves, I am a big fan of "Earth Ships" which don't require loin clothes or saber tooth tigers. Passive systems to heat and cool buildings is a positive thing, trading carbon credits and not reducing pollution is counter productive. It is nothing more than a redistribution of wealth while continuing to live with dirty air!


...

Run along, Mort.  You're wasting my time here with your bullshit.   Roll Eyes
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #59 - May 31st, 2019 at 11:33pm
 
Poor brian, I see I have hurt your feelings again. I don't suppose you have applied for that federal license so you can own Ralphies Red Rider BB Gun yet.

Quote:
mythical, tyrannical government


Venezuela is a model for the long term plans of the Left. In 1998 the people voted in Hugo Chavez and everything was going to be great because he imposed redistribution on producers of wealth. As bad as it has become their people probably don't accept they did this to themselves. They voted for more government handouts and lost their country! Why would you believe it couldn't happen here or over there? Those are famous last words when freedom is lost to a "mythical, tyrannical government"!

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-19652436

Quote:
Insulting the message


I can't imagine that you could find any crowd in any Western Country that would have twenty five percent of people who believe the Sun revolves around the Earth. At best surveys can represent how questions are asked and who they ask to get a somewhat different answer. Maybe it was a survey of Americans 4 to 7 years old or the aged with dementia. Unfortunately you could probably ask most younger Americans about their favorite Sports Figure or Celebrity and they could give you more facts about their Idols then you would ever care to know. Maybe the old saw is represented here, you ask a stupid question, you get a stupid answer!

Quote:
I am referring to the scientists who have been forecasting about Global Warming now for nearly a generation and their forecasts appear to being proved right.


Global Warming is a religion, not a science. As I have stated in the past, it is a scam to transfer wealth by creating a system of carbon credits that can be sold between countries. China buys the assigned credits from third world,non industrialized countries and its air and water are still poisoned. Topographic Maps show the contours of land masses among many other features. Water seeks its own level and will flow to rivers, canals and oceans. When the original paths are interrupted by development it changes those paths and can cause flooding where it never flooded before. It isn't the rise of Oceans or global temperatures and the Ice Caps are not shrinking.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/02/15/el-nino-effects-climate-we...

That's all the time I have for you today, the Stock Market is opening and needs my attention!
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Ever notice the folks demanding socialism don't really contribute much to society to begin with?
 
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #60 - Jun 1st, 2019 at 4:24pm
 
mortdooley wrote on May 31st, 2019 at 11:33pm:
Poor brian, I see I have hurt your feelings again. I don't suppose you have applied for that federal license so you can own Ralphies Red Rider BB Gun yet.


I don't need and I don't want no gun, Mort.  I got rid of all my desires for guns when I was in the Army.  Unlike the overwhelming majority of gun nuts who like to hug their fetish objects to themselves at night, I have a wife for that.

Quote:
Quote:
mythical, tyrannical government


Venezuela is a model for the long term plans of the Left. In 1998 the people voted in Hugo Chavez and everything was going to be great because he imposed redistribution on producers of wealth. As bad as it has become their people probably don't accept they did this to themselves. They voted for more government handouts and lost their country! Why would you believe it couldn't happen here or over there? Those are famous last words when freedom is lost to a "mythical, tyrannical government"!

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-19652436


Oh, yes, Mort everybody who believes in fairness and decency is just a member of the Borg.  We all think the same, we all act the same, right?  We all look the same as well.   Grow up, Mort.  Venezuela is a unique case, one that cannot be applied to other nations.

Here's a question for you, Mort.  According to the NRA and like minded Americans, all Communist regimes automatically control guns in their societies, right?  So, how did the Revolutions of 1989 start across Eastern Europe?  All those guns, which appeared like magic from somewhere...   Roll Eyes

Quote:
Quote:
Insulting the message


I can't imagine that you could find any crowd in any Western Country that would have twenty five percent of people who believe the Sun revolves around the Earth. At best surveys can represent how questions are asked and who they ask to get a somewhat different answer. Maybe it was a survey of Americans 4 to 7 years old or the aged with dementia. Unfortunately you could probably ask most younger Americans about their favorite Sports Figure or Celebrity and they could give you more facts about their Idols then you would ever care to know. Maybe the old saw is represented here, you ask a stupid question, you get a stupid answer!


Still unwilling to actually address the message.  Still making excuses.  Face facts, your society is full of dumb people who believe what they were told in Sunday School.  What a bunch of weirdos and losers, hey?  The sun revolves around the Earth.  Pre-historic man lived with the Dinosaurs.  Yeah, sure.   Roll Eyes

Quote:
Quote:
I am referring to the scientists who have been forecasting about Global Warming now for nearly a generation and their forecasts appear to being proved right.


Global Warming is a religion, not a science. As I have stated in the past, it is a scam to transfer wealth by creating a system of carbon credits that can be sold between countries. China buys the assigned credits from third world,non industrialized countries and its air and water are still poisoned. Topographic Maps show the contours of land masses among many other features. Water seeks its own level and will flow to rivers, canals and oceans. When the original paths are interrupted by development it changes those paths and can cause flooding where it never flooded before. It isn't the rise of Oceans or global temperatures and the Ice Caps are not shrinking.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/02/15/el-nino-effects-climate-we...


So, now the US meteorologists have it wrong when they talk about the el nino effect?   You really are a weirdo, Mort.   Downunder, we see what the el nina does to us everytime it happens - droughts, cyclones and storms.   Time to grow up and face the music, this is what your government - all governments have done to the world.

Quote:
That's all the time I have for you today, the Stock Market is opening and needs my attention!


Enjoy it while you can, Mort.  I hope you have your space on the window ledge booked...   Wink
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #61 - Jun 1st, 2019 at 9:06pm
 
..











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« Last Edit: Jun 1st, 2019 at 9:46pm by Panther »  

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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #62 - Jun 1st, 2019 at 11:31pm
 
Quote:
Oh, yes, Mort everybody who believes in fairness and decency is just a member of the Borg.  We all think the same, we all act the same, right?  We all look the same as well.   Grow up, Mort.  Venezuela is a unique case, one that cannot be applied to other nations.

Here's a question for you, Mort.  According to the NRA and like minded Americans, all Communist regimes automatically control guns in their societies, right?  So, how did the Revolutions of 1989 start across Eastern Europe?  All those guns, which appeared like magic from somewhere...


Everybody says the same thing "We will do socialism right", Venezuela is no different than any other society that decided to make people share the wealth. When Chavez met Obama he embarrassed him by trying to give him a copy of "Open Veins of Latin America: Five Centuries of the Pillage of a Continent".

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/apr/19/obama-chavez-book-gift-latin-ameri...

You ask because you don't know history! At the end of the Second World War there were so many small arms that disappeared into private ownership all over the continent that were available when needed. They certainly didn't go down to the local Gun Store and buy the latest CZ.

Quote:
Still unwilling to actually address the message.  Still making excuses.  Face facts, your society is full of dumb people who believe what they were told in Sunday School.  What a bunch of weirdos and losers, hey?  The sun revolves around the Earth.  Pre-historic man lived with the Dinosaurs.  Yeah, sure


I guess your Mom made you go to Sunday School and you resent it.

Quote:
So, now the US meteorologists have it wrong when they talk about the el nino effect?   You really are a weirdo, Mort.   Downunder, we see what the el nina does to us everytime it happens - droughts, cyclones and storms.   Time to grow up and face the music, this is what your government - all governments have done to the world.


https://www.eagles.org/take-action/wind-turbine-fatalities/

Birds don't believe in Wind Farms and millions die each year when they fly into them. A half a million in the US alone, what does that do to the food chain and environment? As for droughts, cyclones and storms that are called "The Weather", the Earth has always had weather and it is cyclical! Our forecasters can't get next week right so why should I believe they can get long term conditions right?

Quote:
Enjoy it while you can, Mort.  I hope you have your space on the window ledge booked


Now that is just down right mean spirited. That is the difference between our positions, I have never stated a wish to see you or any of the other brain dead zombies here come to harm!

We live in a world of Fiat Currency and if the Market were to crash it would take away the jobs of people who never owned any stock. If it fell I would still have assets to keep us comfortable. Elections have consequences and I have used "stop loss" successfully in the past. Democrats only want two classes of people, the Rich and the "dependent on government poor"!
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #63 - Jun 3rd, 2019 at 1:07pm
 
mortdooley wrote on Jun 1st, 2019 at 11:31pm:
Quote:
Oh, yes, Mort everybody who believes in fairness and decency is just a member of the Borg.  We all think the same, we all act the same, right?  We all look the same as well.   Grow up, Mort.  Venezuela is a unique case, one that cannot be applied to other nations.

Here's a question for you, Mort.  According to the NRA and like minded Americans, all Communist regimes automatically control guns in their societies, right?  So, how did the Revolutions of 1989 start across Eastern Europe?  All those guns, which appeared like magic from somewhere...


Everybody says the same thing "We will do socialism right", Venezuela is no different than any other society that decided to make people share the wealth. When Chavez met Obama he embarrassed him by trying to give him a copy of "Open Veins of Latin America: Five Centuries of the Pillage of a Continent".


You obviously don't know or understand the history Latin and Southern America, do you, Mort?  The US has exploited that region for over 150 years.  It has imposed it's will on the people and forced them to accept tyrants and dictators.  You wonder why they resent America?  Really?

Quote:
You ask because you don't know history! At the end of the Second World War there were so many small arms that disappeared into private ownership all over the continent that were available when needed. They certainly didn't go down to the local Gun Store and buy the latest CZ.


A great theory but what does it do to the claims by the Gun Nuts that Tyrants immediately enact gun control?  You cannot have one and then accept the other, Mort, now can you?

In reality, most of the firearms used during the Eastern European revolutions were acquired from the Peoples' Militia armouries.  AK47s and all the other Eastern weapons.  Few WWII weapons were used.  The main problem faced with using WWII weapons is the lack of ammunition available for them.  Plenty of ammunition for AKs.

Quote:
Quote:
Still unwilling to actually address the message.  Still making excuses.  Face facts, your society is full of dumb people who believe what they were told in Sunday School.  What a bunch of weirdos and losers, hey?  The sun revolves around the Earth.  Pre-historic man lived with the Dinosaurs.  Yeah, sure


I guess your Mom made you go to Sunday School and you resent it.


Nope.  Never went to Sunday School, Mort.  Sunday School is an unusual event downunder and really only available to Protestants.  Never had an interest in doing so as I went to a religious school as a young'un.

Quote:
Quote:
So, now the US meteorologists have it wrong when they talk about the el nino effect?   You really are a weirdo, Mort.   Downunder, we see what the el nina does to us everytime it happens - droughts, cyclones and storms.   Time to grow up and face the music, this is what your government - all governments have done to the world.


https://www.eagles.org/take-action/wind-turbine-fatalities/

Birds don't believe in Wind Farms and millions die each year when they fly into them. A half a million in the US alone, what does that do to the food chain and environment? As for droughts, cyclones and storms that are called "The Weather", the Earth has always had weather and it is cyclical! Our forecasters can't get next week right so why should I believe they can get long term conditions right?


Excuse me?  Is this an admission that you don't really know what you're talking about so you decide to change the subject, Mort?  Really?    Roll Eyes

Bird fatalities occur all the time.  Birds, other animals all hunt birds and kill them.  Birds get hit by cars, killed by humans deliberately as well as accidently.  Who cares?   It is the way of the world.  Natural selection will weed out the birds who are stupid and the smarter ones which know to avoid wind turbines will survive.   Roll Eyes

Quote:
Quote:
Enjoy it while you can, Mort.  I hope you have your space on the window ledge booked


Now that is just down right mean spirited. That is the difference between our positions, I have never stated a wish to see you or any of the other brain dead zombies here come to harm!


Where did I say I wished you harm, Mort?  All I suggested was that if you play the market you should expect to come crashing down.  If you want to harm yourself, go for it.

Quote:
We live in a world of Fiat Currency and if the Market were to crash it would take away the jobs of people who never owned any stock. If it fell I would still have assets to keep us comfortable. Elections have consequences and I have used "stop loss" successfully in the past. Democrats only want two classes of people, the Rich and the "dependent on government poor"!


I have more than enough assets to keep me comfortable, Mort, market or not.   Roll Eyes
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #64 - Jun 3rd, 2019 at 3:11pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Jun 3rd, 2019 at 1:07pm:
I have more than enough assets to keep me comfortable........


Yeah ya bludger, everyone else's assets that is.....you never earned a penny on yer own ya leach!!!   Cheesy Grin Grin Grin

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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #65 - Jun 3rd, 2019 at 5:52pm
 
Panther wrote on Jun 3rd, 2019 at 3:11pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jun 3rd, 2019 at 1:07pm:
I have more than enough assets to keep me comfortable........


Yeah ya bludger, everyone else's assets that is.....you never earned a penny on yer own ya leach!!!   Cheesy Grin Grin Grin



Really?  That will be news to my accountant, Panther.  I earnt over $Au120,000 dollars last financial year.  Unlike you, ensconced in your mother's basement, hey?   Roll Eyes
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #66 - Jun 3rd, 2019 at 6:01pm
 
Quote:
In order to have the desired affect 270 votes are required (presently they have 195).


Why?
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #67 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 12:01pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 3rd, 2019 at 6:01pm:
Quote:
In order to have the desired affect 270 votes are required (presently they have 195).


Why?


The winner of the presidential election must win the majority of the electoral votes — that is at least 270 out of the 538 available.


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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #68 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 9:53pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Jun 3rd, 2019 at 1:07pm:
mortdooley wrote on Jun 1st, 2019 at 11:31pm:
Quote:
Oh, yes, Mort everybody who believes in fairness and decency is just a member of the Borg.  We all think the same, we all act the same, right?  We all look the same as well.   Grow up, Mort.  Venezuela is a unique case, one that cannot be applied to other nations.

Here's a question for you, Mort.  According to the NRA and like minded Americans, all Communist regimes automatically control guns in their societies, right?  So, how did the Revolutions of 1989 start across Eastern Europe?  All those guns, which appeared like magic from somewhere...


Everybody says the same thing "We will do socialism right", Venezuela is no different than any other society that decided to make people share the wealth. When Chavez met Obama he embarrassed him by trying to give him a copy of "Open Veins of Latin America: Five Centuries of the Pillage of a Continent".


You obviously don't know or understand the history Latin and Southern America, do you, Mort?  The US has exploited that region for over 150 years.  It has imposed it's will on the people and forced them to accept tyrants and dictators.  You wonder why they resent America?  Really?

Quote:
You ask because you don't know history! At the end of the Second World War there were so many small arms that disappeared into private ownership all over the continent that were available when needed. They certainly didn't go down to the local Gun Store and buy the latest CZ.


A great theory but what does it do to the claims by the Gun Nuts that Tyrants immediately enact gun control?  You cannot have one and then accept the other, Mort, now can you?

In reality, most of the firearms used during the Eastern European revolutions were acquired from the Peoples' Militia armouries.  AK47s and all the other Eastern weapons.  Few WWII weapons were used.  The main problem faced with using WWII weapons is the lack of ammunition available for them.  Plenty of ammunition for AKs.

Quote:
Quote:
Still unwilling to actually address the message.  Still making excuses.  Face facts, your society is full of dumb people who believe what they were told in Sunday School.  What a bunch of weirdos and losers, hey?  The sun revolves around the Earth.  Pre-historic man lived with the Dinosaurs.  Yeah, sure


I guess your Mom made you go to Sunday School and you resent it.


Nope.  Never went to Sunday School, Mort.  Sunday School is an unusual event downunder and really only available to Protestants.  Never had an interest in doing so as I went to a religious school as a young'un.

Quote:
Quote:
So, now the US meteorologists have it wrong when they talk about the el nino effect?   You really are a weirdo, Mort.   Downunder, we see what the el nina does to us everytime it happens - droughts, cyclones and storms.   Time to grow up and face the music, this is what your government - all governments have done to the world.


https://www.eagles.org/take-action/wind-turbine-fatalities/

Birds don't believe in Wind Farms and millions die each year when they fly into them. A half a million in the US alone, what does that do to the food chain and environment? As for droughts, cyclones and storms that are called "The Weather", the Earth has always had weather and it is cyclical! Our forecasters can't get next week right so why should I believe they can get long term conditions right?


Excuse me?  Is this an admission that you don't really know what you're talking about so you decide to change the subject, Mort?  Really?    Roll Eyes

Bird fatalities occur all the time.  Birds, other animals all hunt birds and kill them.  Birds get hit by cars, killed by humans deliberately as well as accidently.  Who cares?   It is the way of the world.  Natural selection will weed out the birds who are stupid and the smarter ones which know to avoid wind turbines will survive.   Roll Eyes

Quote:
Quote:
Enjoy it while you can, Mort.  I hope you have your space on the window ledge booked


Now that is just down right mean spirited. That is the difference between our positions, I have never stated a wish to see you or any of the other brain dead zombies here come to harm!


Where did I say I wished you harm, Mort?  All I suggested was that if you play the market you should expect to come crashing down.  If you want to harm yourself, go for it.

Quote:
We live in a world of Fiat Currency and if the Market were to crash it would take away the jobs of people who never owned any stock. If it fell I would still have assets to keep us comfortable. Elections have consequences and I have used "stop loss" successfully in the past. Democrats only want two classes of people, the Rich and the "dependent on government poor"!


I have more than enough assets to keep me comfortable, Mort, market or not.   Roll Eyes




Don't think I have forgotten you, I am in Florida with only my phone. Be back in a couple more days.
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #69 - Jun 6th, 2019 at 9:59pm
 
Perfectly understandable, Mort. Why would an Amerikan post on an Australian politics board - from a phone in Florida?
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #70 - Jun 7th, 2019 at 9:35am
 
Abu wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 9:59pm:
Perfectly understandable, Mort. Why would an Amerikan post on an Australian politics board - from a phone in Florida?


I am posting from Japan and quite often wonder why I am here ...
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #71 - Jun 8th, 2019 at 7:42pm
 
The Mechanic wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 1:33pm:
This is a ploy by the DNC to steal all upcoming elections.

Get rid of the electoral college and flood the US with dirty immigrants and give them free stuff so that they only vote for the DNC..


So forget majority rule then?
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #72 - Jun 8th, 2019 at 9:41pm
 
Auggie wrote on Jun 8th, 2019 at 7:42pm:
The Mechanic wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 1:33pm:
This is a ploy by the DNC to steal all upcoming elections.

Get rid of the electoral college and flood the US with dirty immigrants and give them free stuff so that they only vote for the DNC..


So forget majority rule then?


If we're talkin' about America mate, then majority rule....aka.....Democracy.....America uses a few Democratic principals, but on the whole that's as far as it goes, because America is not a Democracy.....it's a Constitutional Republic, where the US Constitution.....the Law of the Land......determines outcomes.

The majority doesn't rule.....because the minority has rights guaranteed in the US Constitution, & those rights are protected by the US Constitution......protected from the will of the majority.

The majority is kept from constant advantage over the lives of the minority. The US Constitution does not permit "Mob Rule", enabling more Freedom & Liberty for all - not just the majority.  ...

..

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« Last Edit: Jun 8th, 2019 at 9:50pm by Panther »  

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President Trump smiled & whispered back,"I am The Storm" Wink
 
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #73 - Jun 9th, 2019 at 11:56am
 
Panther wrote on Jun 8th, 2019 at 9:41pm:
Auggie wrote on Jun 8th, 2019 at 7:42pm:
The Mechanic wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 1:33pm:
This is a ploy by the DNC to steal all upcoming elections.

Get rid of the electoral college and flood the US with dirty immigrants and give them free stuff so that they only vote for the DNC..


So forget majority rule then?


If we're talkin' about America mate, then majority rule....aka.....Democracy.....America uses a few Democratic principals, but on the whole that's as far as it goes, because America is not a Democracy.....it's a Constitutional Republic, where the US Constitution.....the Law of the Land......determines outcomes.

The majority doesn't rule.....because the minority has rights guaranteed in the US Constitution, & those rights are protected by the US Constitution......protected from the will of the majority.

The majority is kept from constant advantage over the lives of the minority. The US Constitution does not permit "Mob Rule", enabling more Freedom & Liberty for all - not just the majority.  http://33sm.net16.net/smileys/signsandflags2.gif

..



Ok, so let's come to a compromise then.

Let's keep the electoral college but change it so that each State is divided into districts, each one to have a single elector. The people in each district shall vote for a pledged elector.

This 'district-mode' of the electoral college was actually what the Framers had in mind. This is what James Madison said later on anyhow.

The benefit of a district-based system is that each person's vote is of equal value, provided that each district is equal in population.
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #74 - Jun 9th, 2019 at 3:28pm
 
Auggie wrote on Jun 9th, 2019 at 11:56am:
Panther wrote on Jun 8th, 2019 at 9:41pm:
Auggie wrote on Jun 8th, 2019 at 7:42pm:
The Mechanic wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 1:33pm:
This is a ploy by the DNC to steal all upcoming elections.

Get rid of the electoral college and flood the US with dirty immigrants and give them free stuff so that they only vote for the DNC..


So forget majority rule then?


If we're talkin' about America mate, then majority rule....aka.....Democracy.....America uses a few Democratic principals, but on the whole that's as far as it goes, because America is not a Democracy.....it's a Constitutional Republic, where the US Constitution.....the Law of the Land......determines outcomes.

The majority doesn't rule.....because the minority has rights guaranteed in the US Constitution, & those rights are protected by the US Constitution......protected from the will of the majority.

The majority is kept from constant advantage over the lives of the minority. The US Constitution does not permit "Mob Rule", enabling more Freedom & Liberty for all - not just the majority.  http://33sm.net16.net/smileys/signsandflags2.gif

..



Ok, so let's come to a compromise then.

Let's keep the electoral college but change it so that each State is divided into districts, each one to have a single elector. The people in each district shall vote for a pledged elector.

This 'district-mode' of the electoral college was actually what the Framers had in mind. This is what James Madison said later on anyhow.

The benefit of a district-based system is that each person's vote is of equal value, provided that each district is equal in population.


The Electors in each State are already chosen based on population, with a minor exception.

One Elector for each voting Representative it has in the House of Representatives......the number of which is based on the States Population at the latest census. The 50 State total of US Representatives is 435.

Also One Elector for each US Senator the State Has......all States  have 2 US Senators.

Also, even though Washington, District of Columbia isn't a State, Washington DC gets Electoral Votes based on population because the residents vote for President.

D.C. = 3

435 + 3 + 100 = 538

538 x 1/2 = 269.

That's why, in order for a candidate to win the Presidentcy, he/she needs 270 Electoral Votes, 1 more than half.

If nobody gets a 50% + 1 majority of Electoral Votes, 269+1, then the US House of Representatives votes for the US President.

If you wish it otherwise, you would have to amend the US Constitution.    Wink





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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #75 - Jun 9th, 2019 at 4:12pm
 
The Electoral College isn't going to be abolished any time soon. There will be no reparations for slavery, etc. The Democrats have so many ideas that sink their ship ...

This National Popular Vote Interstate Compact has merit BUT it won't fly without some Red States joining it as well.

There have been prominent Republicans that have endorsed this measure before Trump. Newt Gingrich. Bob Barr. Donald Trump himself endorsed it in November 2016.
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #76 - Jun 9th, 2019 at 9:13pm
 
AiA wrote on Jun 7th, 2019 at 9:35am:
Abu wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 9:59pm:
Perfectly understandable, Mort. Why would an Amerikan post on an Australian politics board - from a phone in Florida?


I am posting from Japan and quite often wonder why I am here ...



My wife has family there, which part?
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #77 - Jun 10th, 2019 at 5:17pm
 
mortdooley wrote on Jun 9th, 2019 at 9:13pm:
AiA wrote on Jun 7th, 2019 at 9:35am:
Abu wrote on Jun 6th, 2019 at 9:59pm:
Perfectly understandable, Mort. Why would an Amerikan post on an Australian politics board - from a phone in Florida?


I am posting from Japan and quite often wonder why I am here ...


My wife has family there, which part?


Still waiting, Mort.  Just in case you've given up...   Roll Eyes
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #78 - Jun 10th, 2019 at 10:02pm
 
OK, I'm back from the land of the big mouse.

Quote:
You obviously don't know or understand the history Latin and Southern America, do you, Mort?  The US has exploited that region for over 150 years.  It has imposed it's will on the people and forced them to accept tyrants and dictators.  You wonder why they resent America?  Really?


Western Europe created the borders of Central and South America when they colonized it. Western financial interests created wealth from the natural resources they found there and even the locals benefited.

Quote:
A great theory but what does it do to the claims by the Gun Nuts that Tyrants immediately enact gun control?  You cannot have one and then accept the other, Mort, now can you?

In reality, most of the firearms used during the Eastern European revolutions were acquired from the Peoples' Militia armouries.  AK47s and all the other Eastern weapons.  Few WWII weapons were used.  The main problem faced with using WWII weapons is the lack of ammunition available for them.  Plenty of ammunition for AKs.


While the AK variant has become the weapon of choice in third world countries, tons of WW2 weapons are still hidden away in private hands.

Ammunition is not like eggs, it doesn't go bad sitting in storage. Properly stored ammo eighty years old still functions like new and I know this because I have plenty and use it in my Mosin-Nagant, Tokarev and Nagant revolver.  It was available cheap until some of Obamas executive orders restricted the import of obsolete calibers. It is once again available but at a much higher price.  

Quote:
Excuse me?  Is this an admission that you don't really know what you're talking about so you decide to change the subject, Mort?  Really?    Roll Eyes

Bird fatalities occur all the time.  Birds, other animals all hunt birds and kill them.  Birds get hit by cars, killed by humans deliberately as well as accidently.  Who cares?   It is the way of the world.  Natural selection will weed out the birds who are stupid and the smarter ones which know to avoid wind turbines will survive.


Wind turbines kill an estimated 140,000 to 328,000 birds each year in North America, making it the most threatening form of green energy. And yet, it’s also one of the most rapidly expanding energy industries: more than 49,000 individual wind turbines now exist across 39 states. More energy can be saved by using a system of passive heat exchange. Pulling hot air through piping buried underground and blown into buildings will cool or heat more efficiently at a lower cost.

Quote:
Enjoy it while you can, Mort.  I hope you have your space on the window ledge booked
   

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Where did I say I wished you harm, Mort?  All I suggested was that if you play the market you should expect to come crashing down.  If you want to harm yourself, go for it.


We both know that during the stock market crash some people who had lost everything climbed out on the ledge of tall buildings and leaped to their deaths.
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #79 - Jun 10th, 2019 at 10:05pm
 
mortdooley wrote on Jun 10th, 2019 at 10:02pm:
Wind turbines kill an estimated 140,000 to 328,000 birds each year in North America, making it the most threatening form of green energy.



only if you disregard the facts


Quote:
4.2 million deaths every year as a result of exposure to ambient (outdoor) air pollution


and that's people, not birds

https://www.who.int/airpollution/en/

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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #80 - Jun 10th, 2019 at 11:13pm
 
John Smith wrote on Jun 10th, 2019 at 10:05pm:
mortdooley wrote on Jun 10th, 2019 at 10:02pm:
Wind turbines kill an estimated 140,000 to 328,000 birds each year in North America, making it the most threatening form of green energy.



only if you disregard the facts


Quote:
4.2 million deaths every year as a result of exposure to ambient (outdoor) air pollution


and that's people, not birds

https://www.who.int/airpollution/en/




When China and India buy Carbon Credits from non industrialized countries the air will still be just as polluted as before!
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #81 - Jun 10th, 2019 at 11:18pm
 
Oh for F*uck's sake!  Roll Eyes

Northern Hemisphere 'Western' Politics (basically USA, UK for starters) have the 'power' of Politics in the hands of the 'Industry', especially the highest ranking.
It is a 'top of the pyramid' form of Politics of which the highest is deemed the Great Political Correctness, almighty.

Politics is never in the hands of the 'People'.
Voting is just a nice way to 'include' the people to some degree, to make them think that they have a 'choice'.  Grin

As PM T.May of the UK found out to her bewilderment, that although the 'People's' wish was to Exit. The Establishment of Politics decided otherwise and so it is now to be. She was an ignorant, but very compassionate leader to the People and with that, she could only go so far. She has been a true 'Peoples' Prime Minister.

Here in Australia, it is much the same. Vote in a PM, who is soon 'replaced' by another via usurption.
BUT. This only exists because of UK/USA presence over Australia, where the job of the PM is to serve the USA, while the Governor-General serves the UK.

So if ever Australia, a Southern Hemisphere nation, ever had a Republic - it would be the truest form of Republic in the History of Politics. For it would be the Political empowerment of the 'People' and not the Individual (Leader) or the 'Establisment'. It would be in the political-cultural expression of the 'mass'.
Political Leadership would be the 'weakest' part of Australia's Political culture.
Power to the Common People of the Common Wealth.

So, that explains the USA version. It doesn't matter - the people's votes. It's all about Political 'Power' and even with the Media's help, Hillary Clinton could not overcome Trump and his Internet effort. Tweet Tweet.
  Wink
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #82 - Jun 11th, 2019 at 6:53am
 
.JaSin. wrote on Jun 10th, 2019 at 11:18pm:
... Hillary Clinton could not overcome Trump and his Internet effort. Tweet Tweet.[/size]  Wink


No.

She couldn't overcome the electoral college.

She beat Trump easily, when it comes to popularity.

Almost 3 million more people voted for her.

The people wanted Clinton, but the electoral college gave them an alleged child rapist.

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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #83 - Jun 11th, 2019 at 7:13am
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 11th, 2019 at 6:53am:
.JaSin. wrote on Jun 10th, 2019 at 11:18pm:
... Hillary Clinton could not overcome Trump and his Internet effort. Tweet Tweet.[/size]  Wink


No.

She couldn't overcome the electoral college.

She beat Trump easily, when it comes to popularity.

Almost 3 million more people voted for her.

The people wanted Clinton, but the electoral college gave them an alleged child rapist.



No.
The 'popularity' you put forth is just from the Media's point of view.
In the real world of a nation 'mostly' existing via the Internet these days - the popularity was with Trump, especially the 'Establishment' of Politics and 'that's' what made the difference or did you not understand my previous post of 'where' the Political power lies in 'da North'?

The 'People' have no Political power in the North, but they do have 'Artistic' power.
This makes you a complete idiot and twat that keeps crying over "The People voted more for Hillary"  Cry Roll Eyes
You don't get it, you never have.
You're an idiot!  Roll Eyes
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #84 - Jun 11th, 2019 at 7:17am
 
.JaSin. wrote on Jun 11th, 2019 at 7:13am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 11th, 2019 at 6:53am:
.JaSin. wrote on Jun 10th, 2019 at 11:18pm:
... Hillary Clinton could not overcome Trump and his Internet effort. Tweet Tweet.[/size]  Wink


No.

She couldn't overcome the electoral college.

She beat Trump easily, when it comes to popularity.

Almost 3 million more people voted for her.

The people wanted Clinton, but the electoral college gave them an alleged child rapist.



No.



Yes.

The people wanted Clinton, but the electoral college gave them an alleged child rapist.

Fact.
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #85 - Jun 11th, 2019 at 7:27am
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 11th, 2019 at 7:17am:
.JaSin. wrote on Jun 11th, 2019 at 7:13am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 11th, 2019 at 6:53am:
.JaSin. wrote on Jun 10th, 2019 at 11:18pm:
... Hillary Clinton could not overcome Trump and his Internet effort. Tweet Tweet.[/size]  Wink


No.

She couldn't overcome the electoral college.

She beat Trump easily, when it comes to popularity.

Almost 3 million more people voted for her.

The people wanted Clinton, but the electoral college gave them an alleged child rapist.



No.



Yes.

The people wanted Clinton, but the electoral college gave them an alleged child rapist.

Fact.


Well thank god the USA Political system put Trump in (because clearly the people of USA have no idea of what's going on), because Hillary would have 'blown' the budget.
Time you take your finger out of your nose Peckerhead and leave the Forum like you PROMISED to, regarding Trump winning.
You're so full of lies, we think you accuse people like Trump of things to make you look better than you really are here on this Forum.
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #86 - Jun 11th, 2019 at 7:40am
 
.JaSin. wrote on Jun 11th, 2019 at 7:27am:
... we think you accuse people like Trump of things to make you look better than you really are here on this Forum.


What have I accused the alleged child rapist of doing?

I'm curious.
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #87 - Jun 11th, 2019 at 4:59pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Jun 3rd, 2019 at 1:07pm:
You obviously don't know or understand the history Latin and Southern America, do you, Mort?  The US has exploited that region for over 150 years.  It has imposed it's will on the people and forced them to accept tyrants and dictators.  You wonder why they resent America?  Really?


A perfect example of this is Guatemala. Look at what the Americans did to Jacobo Arbenz.

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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #88 - Jun 11th, 2019 at 5:03pm
 
Panther wrote on Jun 9th, 2019 at 3:28pm:
Auggie wrote on Jun 9th, 2019 at 11:56am:
Panther wrote on Jun 8th, 2019 at 9:41pm:
Auggie wrote on Jun 8th, 2019 at 7:42pm:
The Mechanic wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 1:33pm:
This is a ploy by the DNC to steal all upcoming elections.

Get rid of the electoral college and flood the US with dirty immigrants and give them free stuff so that they only vote for the DNC..


So forget majority rule then?


If we're talkin' about America mate, then majority rule....aka.....Democracy.....America uses a few Democratic principals, but on the whole that's as far as it goes, because America is not a Democracy.....it's a Constitutional Republic, where the US Constitution.....the Law of the Land......determines outcomes.

The majority doesn't rule.....because the minority has rights guaranteed in the US Constitution, & those rights are protected by the US Constitution......protected from the will of the majority.

The majority is kept from constant advantage over the lives of the minority. The US Constitution does not permit "Mob Rule", enabling more Freedom & Liberty for all - not just the majority.  http://33sm.net16.net/smileys/signsandflags2.gif

..



Ok, so let's come to a compromise then.

Let's keep the electoral college but change it so that each State is divided into districts, each one to have a single elector. The people in each district shall vote for a pledged elector.

This 'district-mode' of the electoral college was actually what the Framers had in mind. This is what James Madison said later on anyhow.

The benefit of a district-based system is that each person's vote is of equal value, provided that each district is equal in population.


The Electors in each State are already chosen based on population, with a minor exception.

One Elector for each voting Representative it has in the House of Representatives......the number of which is based on the States Population at the latest census. The 50 State total of US Representatives is 435.

Also One Elector for each US Senator the State Has......all States  have 2 US Senators.

Also, even though Washington, District of Columbia isn't a State, Washington DC gets Electoral Votes based on population because the residents vote for President.

D.C. = 3

435 + 3 + 100 = 538

538 x 1/2 = 269.

That's why, in order for a candidate to win the Presidentcy, he/she needs 270 Electoral Votes, 1 more than half.

If nobody gets a 50% + 1 majority of Electoral Votes, 269+1, then the US House of Representatives votes for the US President.

If you wish it otherwise, you would have to amend the US Constitution.    Wink







You seem to have completely misunderstood what I said.

I said that each State would be divided into districts, each one returning a single elector. Rather than having them be like a 'string of beads', the electors would represent the people of that district.

This would mean that Republicans would gain some electors in California (in the conservative areas) and the Democrats would gain electors in Texas (in the urban areas). It would take the focus away from campaigning only in handful of states, to campaigning across as much of the country as possible.
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #89 - Jun 11th, 2019 at 5:05pm
 
.JaSin. wrote on Jun 11th, 2019 at 7:27am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 11th, 2019 at 7:17am:
.JaSin. wrote on Jun 11th, 2019 at 7:13am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 11th, 2019 at 6:53am:
.JaSin. wrote on Jun 10th, 2019 at 11:18pm:
... Hillary Clinton could not overcome Trump and his Internet effort. Tweet Tweet.[/size]  Wink


No.

She couldn't overcome the electoral college.

She beat Trump easily, when it comes to popularity.

Almost 3 million more people voted for her.

The people wanted Clinton, but the electoral college gave them an alleged child rapist.



No.



Yes.

The people wanted Clinton, but the electoral college gave them an alleged child rapist.

Fact.


Well thank god the USA Political system put Trump in (because clearly the people of USA have no idea of what's going on), because Hillary would have 'blown' the budget.
Time you take your finger out of your nose Peckerhead and leave the Forum like you PROMISED to, regarding Trump winning.
You're so full of lies, we think you accuse people like Trump of things to make you look better than you really are here on this Forum.


Donald Trump is an embarrassment to America. He can't even articulate himself properly. YouTube all the gaffs and mispronunciations he's made. Some psychologists have even suggested that Trump has early cognitive decline.
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #90 - Jun 11th, 2019 at 5:19pm
 
Well Auggie. He is a Red 'Ranga' afterall. More known for their great vision, artistic skill, superb aviation skills, etc - cliche'.

He might be the weakest member of the 'New Team', but he is at least on the 'Right Team' (Internet) that is taking Politics into the future and away from the flawed past.

He is abrasive, unpleasant and much like the Dwarven King 'Dain Ironfoot' (Billy Connelly) character from the Hobbit films.

The Age of the Grey Raven-haired Car Salesman and Blue Brunette Spin Doctor is gone and along with their bias towards the Yellow and Black Man (The Media Team).
Now is the Age of the Blonde White, the Red Ranga, the Brown and the Olive Green.
The Age of Media Oceania, Europe, Asia & Africa is gone into the past and the Age of North America, South America, Sahul and the Middle-East is awakening.

For too long has the wrong people been running Politics.
If the World is to take Politics seriously and respectfully, then it needs a New Team so the Old Team can leave Politics to the experts and go do what they do better.
Cheesy
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #91 - Jun 11th, 2019 at 6:20pm
 
.JaSin. wrote on Jun 11th, 2019 at 5:19pm:
Well Auggie. He is a Red 'Ranga' afterall. More known for their great vision, artistic skill, superb aviation skills, etc - cliche'.

He might be the weakest member of the 'New Team', but he is at least on the 'Right Team' (Internet) that is taking Politics into the future and away from the flawed past.

He is abrasive, unpleasant and much like the Dwarven King 'Dain Ironfoot' (Billy Connelly) character from the Hobbit films.

The Age of the Grey Raven-haired Car Salesman and Blue Brunette Spin Doctor is gone and along with their bias towards the Yellow and Black Man (The Media Team).
Now is the Age of the Blonde White, the Red Ranga, the Brown and the Olive Green.
The Age of Media Oceania, Europe, Asia & Africa is gone into the past and the Age of North America, South America, Sahul and the Middle-East is awakening.

For too long has the wrong people been running Politics.
If the World is to take Politics seriously and respectfully, then it needs a New Team so the Old Team can leave Politics to the experts and go do what they do better.
Cheesy


I think you're wrong. I think you'll find that the US will move toward a more socially democratic society. It is only inevitable. There's no going back now - Andrew Yang, Bernie Sanders, AOC - these people will move on but their ideas will stick around for a long time.

Medicare-for-all will become a reality, and I suspect that Andrew Yang's Universal Basic Income probably isn't too far away.

The best that conservatives can do is to manage the pace of change - they need to get on top of these issues, take ownership of them and manage them. The conservative strategy to completely reject social democratic polices is not viable in the long-term.
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #92 - Jun 17th, 2019 at 10:06am
 
mortdooley wrote on Jun 10th, 2019 at 10:02pm:
OK, I'm back from the land of the big mouse.


???  Sorry?  Where?

Quote:
Quote:
You obviously don't know or understand the history Latin and Southern America, do you, Mort?  The US has exploited that region for over 150 years.  It has imposed it's will on the people and forced them to accept tyrants and dictators.  You wonder why they resent America?  Really?


Western Europe created the borders of Central and South America when they colonized it. Western financial interests created wealth from the natural resources they found there and even the locals benefited.


So the antics of the American government in places like Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Guatemala, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Cuba, Panama, etc. have no bearing on how people consider the US.  I know most of that was before you were born but we are discussing history, aren't we?

Quote:
Quote:
A great theory but what does it do to the claims by the Gun Nuts that Tyrants immediately enact gun control?  You cannot have one and then accept the other, Mort, now can you?

In reality, most of the firearms used during the Eastern European revolutions were acquired from the Peoples' Militia armouries.  AK47s and all the other Eastern weapons.  Few WWII weapons were used.  The main problem faced with using WWII weapons is the lack of ammunition available for them.  Plenty of ammunition for AKs.


While the AK variant has become the weapon of choice in third world countries, tons of WW2 weapons are still hidden away in private hands.

Ammunition is not like eggs, it doesn't go bad sitting in storage. Properly stored ammo eighty years old still functions like new and I know this because I have plenty and use it in my Mosin-Nagant, Tokarev and Nagant revolver.  It was available cheap until some of Obamas executive orders restricted the import of obsolete calibers. It is once again available but at a much higher price.  


So, all those days I spent in a lecture room in the Army where I learnt about the safe storage and the shelf life of ammunition were wasted?

Ammunition has (in general) a shelf life of approximately 5 years which can be followed by inspections every 12 months until approximately 15 years old.  After that, the propellants steadily degrade, losing power.

In Eastern and Middle Europe, the WarPac states changed over to 7.62x39mm rounds for most of their small arms in approximately 1958.  Most other ammunition was no longer produced in quantity.  Yugoslavia was the rare exception, keeping 7.92mm (long and short) in production until the break up of that country in the 1990s.

Quote:
Quote:
Excuse me?  Is this an admission that you don't really know what you're talking about so you decide to change the subject, Mort?  Really?    Roll Eyes

Bird fatalities occur all the time.  Birds, other animals all hunt birds and kill them.  Birds get hit by cars, killed by humans deliberately as well as accidently.  Who cares?   It is the way of the world.  Natural selection will weed out the birds who are stupid and the smarter ones which know to avoid wind turbines will survive.


Wind turbines kill an estimated 140,000 to 328,000 birds each year in North America, making it the most threatening form of green energy. And yet, it’s also one of the most rapidly expanding energy industries: more than 49,000 individual wind turbines now exist across 39 states. More energy can be saved by using a system of passive heat exchange. Pulling hot air through piping buried underground and blown into buildings will cool or heat more efficiently at a lower cost.


How large is the bird population of the USA?  Several hundred billion, I don't doubt.   140,000-328,000 is a drop in the ocean in comparison.  Run along, Mort, run along.

Quote:
Quote:
Enjoy it while you can, Mort.  I hope you have your space on the window ledge booked
   

Quote:
Where did I say I wished you harm, Mort?  All I suggested was that if you play the market you should expect to come crashing down.  If you want to harm yourself, go for it.


We both know that during the stock market crash some people who had lost everything climbed out on the ledge of tall buildings and leaped to their deaths.

[/quote]

Did they?  Really?  Now why would they waste themselves like that, Mort?   Roll Eyes

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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #93 - Jun 18th, 2019 at 12:07am
 
Quote:
OK, I'm back from the land of the big mouse.


???  Sorry?  Where?


Orlando


Quote:
Western Europe created the borders of Central and South America when they colonized it. Western financial interests created wealth from the natural resources they found there and even the locals benefited.


So the antics of the American government in places like Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Guatemala, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Cuba, Panama, etc. have no bearing on how people consider the US.  I know most of that was before you were born but we are discussing history, aren't we?


Brazil, Argentina and Chile don't depend on the US for a substantial part of their GDP and any business between our countries is mutually beneficial. Guatemala, El Salvador, Nicaragua, and Panama are self governing Nations and any problems they have are of their own making! Cubans wanted to be ruled by the Castros and have enjoyed their workers paradise ever since.

Quote:
So, all those days I spent in a lecture room in the Army where I learnt about the safe storage and the shelf life of ammunition were wasted?

Ammunition has (in general) a shelf life of approximately 5 years which can be followed by inspections every 12 months until approximately 15 years old.  After that, the propellants steadily degrade, losing power.

In Eastern and Middle Europe, the WarPac states changed over to 7.62x39mm rounds for most of their small arms in approximately 1958.  Most other ammunition was no longer produced in quantity.  Yugoslavia was the rare exception, keeping 7.92mm (long and short) in production until the break up of that country in the 1990s.


Your information is incomplete while basically accurate. I wouldn't want my Military depending on decades old small arms ammunition so placing some short term limit on usability makes sense.  It sounds like a self imposed shelf life rather than the useful life of well stored ammunition. I can assure you that I have used sound, clean 80 year old 30-06 and couldn't tell the difference from new factory commercial ammo. I have bought cases of eastern block obsolete ammo because of their deep price discount and headstamps indicate much of it was manufactured in the 40s and 50s. No problem with reliability!

The AKs and their ammo are what the Arms Merchants have standardized on. Everybody wants AKs because everybody else they are likely to encounter will also use them. Resupply is much easier when everyone uses the same weapons.


Quote:
How large is the bird population of the USA?  Several hundred billion, I don't doubt.   140,000-328,000 is a drop in the ocean in comparison.  Run along, Mort, run along.


Taking that many birds out of the ecosystem has an impact on their food source. Wind turbines also take out Bats who eat the mosquitos that carry disease. Unintended consequences are more often than not the norm when Eco-friendly policies take effect. The one constant all these high minded ideas have in common is they continue our dependence.   
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #94 - Jun 18th, 2019 at 9:54am
 
mortdooley wrote on Jun 18th, 2019 at 12:07am:
Quote:
OK, I'm back from the land of the big mouse.


???  Sorry?  Where?


Orlando


And what does that city have to do with a "big mouse"?

Quote:
Quote:
So the antics of the American government in places like Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Guatemala, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Cuba, Panama, etc. have no bearing on how people consider the US.  I know most of that was before you were born but we are discussing history, aren't we?


Brazil, Argentina and Chile don't depend on the US for a substantial part of their GDP and any business between our countries is mutually beneficial. Guatemala, El Salvador, Nicaragua, and Panama are self governing Nations and any problems they have are of their own making! Cubans wanted to be ruled by the Castros and have enjoyed their workers paradise ever since.


Economics had little to do with the promotion of a military dictatorship in any of those countries but the US Government did that, despite it's claim to believe in democracy, Mort.  Same for Guatamala, Nicaragua,  Panama.   Funny that, hey?   Roll Eyes

Quote:
Your information is incomplete while basically accurate. I wouldn't want my Military depending on decades old small arms ammunition so placing some short term limit on usability makes sense.  It sounds like a self imposed shelf life rather than the useful life of well stored ammunition. I can assure you that I have used sound, clean 80 year old 30-06 and couldn't tell the difference from new factory commercial ammo. I have bought cases of eastern block obsolete ammo because of their deep price discount and headstamps indicate much of it was manufactured in the 40s and 50s. No problem with reliability!

The AKs and their ammo are what the Arms Merchants have standardized on. Everybody wants AKs because everybody else they are likely to encounter will also use them. Resupply is much easier when everyone uses the same weapons.


What you are missing is that what you proclaim as "sound" ammunition was actually starting to decay.  Did you measure its muzzle velocity?  Did you measure its yaw angles?  Those are important to the military, less so for civilians.  To you, as long as it goes "boom!" You're happy.

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How large is the bird population of the USA?  Several hundred billion, I don't doubt.   140,000-328,000 is a drop in the ocean in comparison.  Run along, Mort, run along.


Taking that many birds out of the ecosystem has an impact on their food source.
[/quote]

Until they learn to avoid the turbine blades.  You're talking as if this leads to extinction.  It doesn't.  The species continues.  Smarter birds survive.  It is called natural selection and is part of evolution.  I know the concepts of evolution are anathema to many fundamentalist Christian Americans...

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Wind turbines also take out Bats who eat the mosquitos that carry disease.


Again, until the smarter ones realise to avoid the turbines...

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Unintended consequences are more often than not the norm when Eco-friendly policies take effect. The one constant all these high minded ideas have in common is they continue our dependence.   


You mean on fossil fuels?   Really?  And there I was under the impression that renewable energy sources actually decrease dependence on them...   Roll Eyes

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PZ547
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #95 - Jun 18th, 2019 at 11:22am
 
kindly dump the agenda to fill OzPol with American crap


no one gives a damn about your corrupt systems


thin out the 50% jews in the US congress

do that

see if your systems don't miraculously begin to regain something approaching health

and quit imagining anyone outside the US gives a damn about anything US

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mortdooley
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #96 - Jun 18th, 2019 at 9:29pm
 
Land of the big mouse!


...


Quote:
What you are missing is that what you proclaim as "sound" ammunition was actually starting to decay.  Did you measure its muzzle velocity?  Did you measure its yaw angles?  Those are important to the military, less so for civilians.  To you, as long as it goes "boom!" You're happy.


Good groups at one hundred yards, no unusual drop over distance and what is to be expected in felt recoil. Good enough for the civilian market but I would never arm troops with ammo older than they are!

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You mean on fossil fuels?   Really?  And there I was under the impression that renewable energy sources actually decrease dependence on them...


The point is you and the rest of us are still dependent on the supplier regardless of how the energy is produced!

Economics
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #97 - Jun 19th, 2019 at 10:00am
 
mortdooley wrote on Jun 18th, 2019 at 9:29pm:


So, you've been visiting Disneyland in Florida?  I was under the impression that Disneyland was in California...

Quote:
Quote:
What you are missing is that what you proclaim as "sound" ammunition was actually starting to decay.  Did you measure its muzzle velocity?  Did you measure its yaw angles?  Those are important to the military, less so for civilians.  To you, as long as it goes "boom!" You're happy.


Good groups at one hundred yards, no unusual drop over distance and what is to be expected in felt recoil. Good enough for the civilian market but I would never arm troops with ammo older than they are!


100 metres is next door, Mort.  I was taught to shoot at 300 and 600 metres using both .303 and 7.62x51mm rounds.

Quote:
Quote:
You mean on fossil fuels?   Really?  And there I was under the impression that renewable energy sources actually decrease dependence on them...


The point is you and the rest of us are still dependent on the supplier regardless of how the energy is produced!

Economics


Really?  So, I don't own the solar cells on my roof?  How about Government owned windmills some kilometres away?   Who owns them?

Oh, I forgot, America everything is privately owned, right?   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #98 - Jun 20th, 2019 at 12:49am
 
Quote:
So, you've been visiting Disneyland in Florida?  I was under the impression that Disneyland was in California...


They are in Paris, Tokyo and Hong Kong as well. It was a family trip and not something I would have done if all involved were adults.


https://traveltips.usatoday.com/disney-theme-parks-around-world-3689.html

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100 metres is next door, Mort.  I was taught to shoot at 300 and 600 metres using both .303 and 7.62x51mm rounds.


I'm sure my rifles are capable of longer shots but if they group well at 100 yards I put them away and shoot hand guns. My six inch S&W 686 makes small groups at 100 yards with full power loads. I've even managed to hit the paper somewhere at 100 yards with .38 caliber 2 inch snubbies!

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Really?  So, I don't own the solar cells on my roof?  How about Government owned windmills some kilometres away?   Who owns them?


Even though you pay for them do you really own them? Probably under restrictive conditions. I've talked with the companies that sell roof mounted panels here and they only feed power to the grid. You may get credit for exporting power but in a grid down power outage you are as out of power as those without panels. The power is directed to discharge into the ground rod to protect service crews from a back feed danger. Your panels may produce all the power you could want during the day but none will be available because of the safety features. All things considered I don't find them cost effective. You buy and pay on installments and take years to break even. We can choose who we pay our electric bill to from a group of third party companies and it has saved me more money because they compete for my business.


Don't get the impression I oppose Solar power, we have a 12'x24' portable building that houses our chickens, their coop is the last 6'x12' and the rest is storage and equipment. I use 60 watt equivalent LED bulbs and a 40 watt shop light when I need to light up the whole building. I power low watt 12volt fans for air movers and for grins I added a 24" TV for over the air reception.  I installed 245 watts of solar panels, a 1000 watt pure sign wave inverter and 2 105 amp hour AGM batteries. I'm currently researching what size refrigerator can be comfortably used with this system. It may not be a practical addition.
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #99 - Jun 21st, 2019 at 12:18am
 
Disneyworld in Orlando is schit. I went there a few years back with my daughter and we were driving all the way to Key West with a stop in Tampa and the Everglades so it was convenient. She enjoyed it. I did not and felt pity for all those who actually flew in from overseas ... and there were plenty of those: sad Brits, Norwegians ...
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Re: 15th State To Ditch Electoral College
Reply #100 - Jun 21st, 2019 at 8:27pm
 
AiA wrote on Jun 21st, 2019 at 12:18am:
Disneyworld in Orlando is schit. I went there a few years back with my daughter and we were driving all the way to Key West with a stop in Tampa and the Everglades so it was convenient. She enjoyed it. I did not and felt pity for all those who actually flew in from overseas ... and there were plenty of those: sad Brits, Norwegians ...



It wasn't something I ever wanted to do either. Long lines for rides I could have passed on but it was family and I was making the best of it.
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