Australian Politics Forum - Islam vs freedom

freediver

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Re: Islam vs freedom
Reply #105 - Jun 8^th, 2019 at 1:51pm

Quote:

Did you actually not mean "the muslim community...", and meant to say "individual(s) from..."?

That's what the Muslim community is made up of Gandalf.

polite_gandalf wrote on May 23^rd, 2019 at 2:42pm:

freediver wrote on May 22^nd, 2019 at 7:24pm:

Do you think people would have any reason to fear assassination if they starred in a movie that makes fun of Muhammad?

Not in Australia.

Are you backpedaling on this?

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Islam vs freedom
Reply #106 - Jun 8^th, 2019 at 3:08pm

freediver wrote on Jun 8^th, 2019 at 1:51pm:

That's what the Muslim community is made up of Gandalf.

Why is it so hard to confirm you only meant individuals from that community, and not every single individual rising as one like a mindless collective? Do you find it just a little inconsistent that you berate me for using the word "Europeans" to describe individuals who raped and pillaged the new world, but see no problem when you talk about "the Muslim community in western countries" acting violently - when you actually only meant some individuals from that community?

Also, please read the answers I provide before mindlessly repeating the same question. ie post# 101.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47433 At my desk.	Re: Islam vs freedom Reply #107 - Jun 8^th, 2019 at 3:51pm Quote: Why is it so hard to confirm you only meant individuals from that community, and not every single individual rising as one like a mindless collective? Sounds like a pretty stupid question to me. Is someone going to get their head chopped off by every single Australian Muslim? Are you backpedaling Gandalf?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Islam vs freedom
Reply #108 - Jun 8^th, 2019 at 4:51pm

I am not backpeddling FD, it should be obvious from the context I meant a logical or reasonable reason. But then you already know that, cause I've told you twice already. And yet you inanely repeat the same question as if it somehow clever? I wonder why. Is it because your now in full blown deflection mode, desperately ducking and weaving from all of my questions?

freediver wrote on Jun 8^th, 2019 at 3:51pm:

Sounds like a pretty stupid question to me. Is someone going to get their head chopped off by every single Australian Muslim?

Is this your way of conceding 'no, I didn't mean every single muslim in that community as my wording clearly implied'?

Do you find it just a little inconsistent that you berate me for using the word "Europeans" to describe individuals who raped and pillaged the new world, but see no problem when you talk about "the Muslim community in western countries" acting violently - when you actually only meant some individuals from that community?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47433 At my desk.	Re: Islam vs freedom Reply #109 - Jun 8^th, 2019 at 4:57pm Quote: Is this your way of conceding 'no, I didn't mean every single muslim in that community as my wording clearly implied'? Was it obvious from the context?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Islam vs freedom
Reply #110 - Jun 8^th, 2019 at 5:16pm

It was not obvious from the context, as you seem to go out of your way to blur the distinction between an entire population and some individuals from the community. This is just the latest such example.

It should have been obvious by virtue of the fact that the idea of all individuals across the entire community rising up as one like a mindless borg is an exceedingly stupid one. On the other hand, this is from the same person who asserts that "all muslims support genocide", so...

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47433 At my desk.	Re: Islam vs freedom Reply #111 - Jun 8^th, 2019 at 5:33pm Quote: It was not obvious from the context And yet clearly implied?
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20023 Canberra Gender:	Re: Islam vs freedom Reply #112 - Jun 16^th, 2019 at 12:50pm freediver wrote on Jun 8^th, 2019 at 5:33pm: Quote: It was not obvious from the context And yet clearly implied? Sure FD, in the same way that "all muslims support genocide" clearly implies err.. not all muslims supporting genocide - right?
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47433 At my desk.	Re: Islam vs freedom Reply #113 - Jun 16^th, 2019 at 12:54pm Have you aver come across a Muslim over the age of 3 who does not support genocide?
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20023 Canberra Gender:	Re: Islam vs freedom Reply #114 - Jun 16^th, 2019 at 1:55pm Of course I have - every single one of them. What a stupid question.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Islam vs freedom
Reply #115 - Jun 16^th, 2019 at 2:07pm

Anyway FD, can you give me your guarantee that "the spear fishing community" (by which I of course mean mere individuals from that community) will not react violently to a film that mocks spear fishing?

Do you think that not being able to give that guarantee makes spear-fishing mocking films a dangerous enterprise?

Or similarly, do you think that not being able to guarantee that my next flight will not crash means that flying on commercial flights is generally not safe?

I feel like I've asked you that before - several times.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47433 At my desk.	Re: Islam vs freedom Reply #116 - Jun 16^th, 2019 at 4:29pm What was wrong with my last answer Gandalf?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Islam vs freedom
Reply #117 - Jun 16^th, 2019 at 10:25pm

Never mind FD, you don't have to answer.

So anyway, where were we up to on the 'jew-mocking' films? So far I think we have a top 10 list of romantic comedies were the hero is an loveable jew, mob movies set in new york that invariably involve jewish criminals, and the Passion of the Christ.

Tell me FD, do you think that list proves that 'jew mocking' is off limits in Hollywood, or did you have something else?

Any films where say the film makers deliberately set out to specifically ridicule and offend jews or judaism in a comparitive way to how "Innoncence of Muslims" deliberately set out to ridicule and offend muslims?

You tell me you are unfamiliar with "The Eternal Jew" - here you go you can read all about it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Eternal_Jew_(1940_film)

Just try and get a basic picture of the general themes, for example:

Quote:

A scene depicts four bearded men in traditional religious Jewish clothing, then shows them shaved and in modern business suits, while the narrator explains that only a "trained eye" can distinguish their Jewish features.

"Where rats appear, they bring ruin by destroying mankind's goods and foodstuffs. In this way, they spread disease, plague, leprosy, typhoid fever, cholera, dysentery, and so on. They are cunning, cowardly and cruel and are found mostly in large packs. Among the animals, they represent the rudiment of an insidious, underground destruction – just like the Jews among human beings."

Now try and imagine the same film, or similar, being remade by Hollywood today. Do you reckon a film like that would be do-able? Try and say 'yes' with a straight face.

*THIS* is the sort of film that is far more equivalent to the "Innocence of muslims" or the sort of Muhammad mocking film you have in mind than idiotic suggestions like Keeping the Faith or New York gangster movies.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Islam vs freedom
Reply #118 - Jun 16^th, 2019 at 10:32pm

Quote:

Never mind FD, you don't have to answer.

You could always save me the trouble and copy and paste the last one I gave.

Quote:

So anyway, where were we up to on the 'jew-mocking' films?

You were reassuring us that actors would have no reason to fear for their lives if they starred in a movie that mocks Muhammad. But also conceding they might get their head chopped off by a tiny minority of Muslims.

Mel Gibson still has his, BTW.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Islam vs freedom
Reply #119 - Jun 16^th, 2019 at 11:19pm

missed the question did you FD?

Never mind, here it is again:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 16^th, 2019 at 10:25pm:

Any films where say the film makers deliberately set out to specifically ridicule and offend jews or judaism in a comparitive way to how "Innoncence of Muslims" deliberately set out to ridicule and offend muslims?

You tell me you are unfamiliar with "The Eternal Jew" - here you go you can read all about it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Eternal_Jew_(1940_film)

Just try and get a basic picture of the general themes, for example:

Quote:
A scene depicts four bearded men in traditional religious Jewish clothing, then shows them shaved and in modern business suits, while the narrator explains that only a "trained eye" can distinguish their Jewish features.

"Where rats appear, they bring ruin by destroying mankind's goods and foodstuffs. In this way, they spread disease, plague, leprosy, typhoid fever, cholera, dysentery, and so on. They are cunning, cowardly and cruel and are found mostly in large packs. Among the animals, they represent the rudiment of an insidious, underground destruction – just like the Jews among human beings."

Now try and imagine the same film, or similar, being remade by Hollywood today. Do you reckon a film like that would be do-able?

And a supplimentary: if 'the eternal jew' or equivalent was made by Hollywood, do you reckon you could guarantee that no jew would react violently? (hint: bit different to passion of the Christ)

Can you comprehend yet how much more offensive a film like Innocense of Muslims is to muslims than something like Keeping the Faith would be to jews?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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