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Wholesale electricity prices up already (Read 6532 times)
freediver
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Re: Wholesale electricity prices up already
Reply #45 - May 22nd, 2019 at 7:47pm
 
lee wrote on May 22nd, 2019 at 4:38pm:
freediver wrote on May 22nd, 2019 at 12:25pm:
For how many of those people do you think the cost of the electricity itself was the dominant cost, rather than the cost of the connection?



Seeing as the cost of connection is already paid? It is not talking new connections. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin


When was the last time you looked at an electricity bill?
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lee
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Re: Wholesale electricity prices up already
Reply #46 - May 22nd, 2019 at 7:49pm
 
freediver wrote on May 22nd, 2019 at 7:47pm:
When was the last time you looked at an electricity bill?


Last month petal. You?
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Re: Wholesale electricity prices up already
Reply #47 - May 22nd, 2019 at 7:50pm
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on May 22nd, 2019 at 2:00pm:
juliar wrote on May 22nd, 2019 at 8:08am:
F
And to repeat, even though the Lefties will never be able to understand a word of this - there is not enough free clear treeless land available to build the many thousands of solar and wind farms required to RELIABLY generate the SAME power output as the coal power stations effortlessly do day and night.

Care to show your working for this?>

Good luck with that. Juliar's style is to spam and scram.
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freediver
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Re: Wholesale electricity prices up already
Reply #48 - May 22nd, 2019 at 7:52pm
 
lee wrote on May 22nd, 2019 at 7:49pm:
freediver wrote on May 22nd, 2019 at 7:47pm:
When was the last time you looked at an electricity bill?


Last month petal. You?


Most of the costs are fixed to cover the connection. Only part depends on the amount of electricity you use.

Quote:
For them to be in the stats they would be on grid.


Not any more.
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Re: Wholesale electricity prices up already
Reply #49 - May 22nd, 2019 at 7:53pm
 
freediver wrote on May 22nd, 2019 at 7:47pm:
lee wrote on May 22nd, 2019 at 4:38pm:
freediver wrote on May 22nd, 2019 at 12:25pm:
For how many of those people do you think the cost of the electricity itself was the dominant cost, rather than the cost of the connection?



Seeing as the cost of connection is already paid? It is not talking new connections. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin


When was the last time you looked at an electricity bill?


Huh?

Are your talking about RENTERS?  IF they have paid their electricity bill, they shouldn't need a "re-connection" fee, they are already listed with whatever electricity company. Then some people are dumb beyond belief. Especially up your way.  Wink
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lee
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Re: Wholesale electricity prices up already
Reply #50 - May 22nd, 2019 at 8:30pm
 
freediver wrote on May 22nd, 2019 at 7:52pm:
Most of the costs are fixed to cover the connection.


No petal. The fixed charge is a "Supply Charge" not a connection fee. A connection fee applies to either the first time connection to the grid or a re-connection charge through not paying your bill and having the power disconnected.

"What are my total charges and deductions?
On the back of the bill, you'll find a detailed break down of your charges and deductions. This includes your chosen energy plan, the amount of units consumed, your Western Power supply charge and any concessions or deductions you may be eligible for."

https://www.synergy.net.au/Your-home/Help-and-advice/Bills/Understandingmybill
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freediver
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Re: Wholesale electricity prices up already
Reply #51 - May 22nd, 2019 at 10:19pm
 
I did not say it was a connection fee Lee. I said it was the cost of the connection. That's exactly what it is. So, now that that is cleared up, can you tell us which is the larger part of your bill? The cost of the actual electricity or the cost of the connection?

Are you fleeing to pedantry because you know I was right about the coalition pushing up electricity prices with their policies while scrapping the cheapest and most economically efficient way to reduce GHG emissions?

How do you think all those disconnected people feel about being forced to pay for subsidies, MRETs etc because a large band of idiots get all wound up when people use the t word?
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lee
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Re: Wholesale electricity prices up already
Reply #52 - May 22nd, 2019 at 10:57pm
 
freediver wrote on May 22nd, 2019 at 10:19pm:
I did not say it was a connection fee Lee. I said it was the cost of the connection. That's exactly what it is. So, now that that is cleared up, can you tell us which is the larger part of your bill? The cost of the actual electricity or the cost of the connection?



Poor petal. No it is not a connection fee. It is a supply fee.

freediver wrote on May 22nd, 2019 at 10:19pm:
Are you fleeing to pedantry because you know I was right about the coalition pushing up electricity prices with their policies while scrapping the cheapest and most economically efficient way to reduce GHG emissions?


Nope. Where can you find a reference for the "coalition pushing up electricity prices"? You do understand that they don't control prices. They are independent of government.

So which are these cheap policies that are economically efficient? Wind power that generates electricity best at a speed of 8-25 miles per hour; but rarely reach that speed? It is why they have a typical capacity factor of about 30-40%. That is 30-40% of the nameplate capacity that so enamours those of the "green" persuasion. They also give a 30 year life span, although real life experience says they last about 15 years.

And then of course their is the problem of wind generator companies going broke. Senvion is one such and they have implications for Australia.

""Australian wind project owners worried as Senvion faces insolvency"

https://reneweconomy.com.au/australian-wind-project-owners-worried-as-senvion-fa...

"Elsewhere in the offshore wind universe, two large and relatively new projects are in the midst of what must be costly repairs involving significant downtime. Having received regulatory approval, the Danish mega-developer Orsted is about to start removing and renovating all 324 blades on the 108-turbine, 389 MW, Duddon Sands wind farm in the UK part of the Irish Sea, a year after problems first became apparent. The machines used, the Siemens 3.6–120, have suffered leading edge, a problem that affects perhaps some 500 turbines in Europe (See “Type Failure or Wear and Tear in European Offshore Wind?”), and requiring the application of a remedial covering to each blade."

"Onshore wind is doing no better. The most recent auction for wind contracts in Germany took place in February and was radically undersubscribed, with only 476 MW of a possible 700 MW being awarded "

https://windeurope.org/newsroom/news/german-onshore-wind-auction-under-subscribe...

Then of course when they describe "cheap" they don't include the subsidies.

freediver wrote on May 22nd, 2019 at 10:19pm:
How do you think all those disconnected people feel about being forced to pay for subsidies, MRETs etc because a large band of idiots get all wound up when people use the t word?


You mean those subsidies for renewables which are far more expensive per Megawatt thanfossil fuel?
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« Last Edit: May 22nd, 2019 at 11:06pm by lee »  
 
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Re: Wholesale electricity prices up already
Reply #53 - May 23rd, 2019 at 12:05am
 
Well - under the LNP Australia is open for business - just not for anyone else other than their massive immigration to prop up an economy in tachycardia...
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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freediver
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Re: Wholesale electricity prices up already
Reply #54 - May 23rd, 2019 at 9:15am
 
Quote:
Poor petal. No it is not a connection fee. It is a supply fee.


Earth to Lee: I did not call it a connection fee. But, you pay it if you are connected to the grid. You don't pay it if you are not. They are independent of how much electricity you use. You are allowed to think for yourself Lee.

Quote:
Nope. Where can you find a reference for the "coalition pushing up electricity prices"? You do understand that they don't control prices. They are independent of government.


Are you denying that MRETs push up electricity prices?

Quote:
So which are these cheap policies that are economically efficient? Wind power that generates electricity best at a speed of 8-25 miles per hour; but rarely reach that speed? It is why they have a typical capacity factor of about 30-40%. That is 30-40% of the nameplate capacity that so enamours those of the "green" persuasion. They also give a 30 year life span, although real life experience says they last about 15 years.


Carbon taxes are the cheapest and most economically efficient ways to reduce GHG emissions. Wind turbines are one of the most expensive ways to reduce GHG emissions. But they are favoured by the coalition over cheaper policies, hence the high electricity prices.
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Re: Wholesale electricity prices up already
Reply #55 - May 23rd, 2019 at 3:02pm
 
Well the Lefties can perch on their armchairs and wave their arms around while the rest of Australia rests assured that Labor won't increase the cost of power by about 4 TIMES!!!!!!  And send Australia to the wall.

ScoMo will very likely REDUCE the Renewable Rubbish subsidy because it is just a waste of money putting stuff up that only works about 3 or 4 days a week.

The LUNATIC EXTREMIST GREENIES killed the golden goose when they flogged the CLIMATE CHANGE SCAM to death because their whole political platform is built around the CLIMATE CHANGE SCAM.

Because NOBODY would ever believe ANYTHING that oozes out of a mad as a cut snake Greeny the normal straight people now are convinced by the Greenies that the Greenies' CLIMATE CHANGE SCAM is all bulldust.

Now when will ScoMo announce the 5 new HELE clean coal power stations to keep Australia's industry humming along with CHEAP RELIABLE ENDLESS POWER just like the last 200 hundred years or so ?
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lee
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Re: Wholesale electricity prices up already
Reply #56 - May 23rd, 2019 at 4:42pm
 
freediver wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 9:15am:
Earth to Lee: I did not call it a connection fee. But, you pay it if you are connected to the grid.


You called it the "cost of connection". You only get connected once unless you default and get cut off from the connection. You pay a usage fee. Not for an existing connection.

freediver wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 9:15am:
Are you denying that MRETs push up electricity prices?


So a Mandatory Renewable Energy target pushes up prices? I thought it was supposed to bring them down because renewables are now cheaper than coal. It kind of makes the use of MRET's obsolete. Wink

freediver wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 9:15am:
Carbon taxes are the cheapest and most economically efficient ways to reduce GHG emissions.


You keep saying that. You certainly haven't shown it anywhere. To what level shpould GHG's be reduced? Remember you once said we don't want any GHG's? Grin Grin Grin Grin

freediver wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 9:15am:
But they are favoured by the coalition over cheaper policies, hence the high electricity prices.


Can I have a link to where they have said they favour them over solar? Isn't renewables up to the industry to build, whatever type? Or do you favour an interventionist policy?

What is the cost Solar v Wind Turbine, the greenies keep telling us they are both cheaper than coal now.

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Re: Wholesale electricity prices up already
Reply #57 - May 24th, 2019 at 6:15am
 
Quote:
ScoMo will very likely REDUCE the Renewable Rubbish subsidy because it is just a waste of money putting stuff up that only works about 3 or 4 days a week.


In other words, the coalition will keep one of the most expensive ways to reduce GHG emissions, but entirely scrap the cheapest and most economically efficient.

Quote:
You called it the "cost of connection".


Closer, but still no cheese. The cost of the connection Lee - because that what it is. How long will you keep tapdancing to avoid a straight answer to a simple question?

Lee if you want to quote what I actually said rather than trying to misrepresent it, just quote it.

Quote:
So a Mandatory Renewable Energy target pushes up prices? I thought it was supposed to bring them down because renewables are now cheaper than coal. It kind of makes the use of MRET's obsolete.


Such is the idiocy of coalition policy.

Quote:
You keep saying that.


Me and every economist.

Quote:
To what level shpould GHG's be reduced? Remember you once said we don't want any GHG's?


No-one does. It is a by-product.

Quote:
Can I have a link to where they have said they favour them over solar?


Again, that is not what I said Lee.
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Re: Wholesale electricity prices up already
Reply #58 - May 24th, 2019 at 9:58am
 
Gee Frediver is getting more like Rob Oakeshott by the hour.

He is using the classic Greeny divide and konker tactic which doesn't work.

The idea is to take little bits out of context and rattle on about each little bit out of context of course.
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Re: Wholesale electricity prices up already
Reply #59 - May 24th, 2019 at 10:16am
 
ScoMo knows windmills are just blowing dollars away in the wind and a drop in subsidies is inevitable.


COSTLY WIND POWER MENACES MAN AND NATURE
MAY 21, 2019 By Tom Harris, Jay Lehr

The true costs of wind energy are too often (deliberately?) ignored or underestimated.

...

Wind energy can never replace fossil fuels, despite claims of environmentalists and advocates of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s Green New Deal (GND).

It’s not environment-friendly either. Indeed, wind power is hampered by many limitations, including:
Its intermittent and inefficient nature
Insufficient sites with adequate, reliable wind
Acreage required to erect turbines and harness wind
Excessive expenses, many of them rarely mentioned
Dangers to bird and bat populations
Dangers to human health from light flicker and low frequency throbbing noise (infrasound).
Costs, limitations, and health and environmental impacts of batteries and other back-up systems


Wind turbines are highly inefficient. Large industrial wind turbines (IWT) typically produce about 2.5 megawatts of power when wind speed is between about 8 and 25 miles per hour. However, most of the time it’s not, even at the best locations.

Today’s wind farms have a 30–40% average “capacity factor.” That means their average annual output is only 30–40% of “nameplate” capacity, or what they would produce if the wind were blowing 8–25 mph 24/7/365. As we erect more turbines, they must be placed in less optimal locations, and capacity numbers will drop, perhaps dramatically. And no one can predict when they will generate electricity.

When the wind isn’t blowing, the electricity grid cannot provide the energy we need to operate and maintain our standard of living. Today fossil fuels stand ready to step in when wind speeds decline. But under the GND, virtually all fossil fuels would be eliminated, making it impossible to keep the lights on without a major increase in nuclear power, which environmental activists hate even more than fossil fuels.


To generate significant wind energy, facilities must be located where there is steady wind most of the time. Such areas exist along the West Coast of the United States and a strip of the Midwest from the Dakotas to Texas. But 75% of the conterminous 48 states have only half the wind of these locations. Offshore areas have higher wind potential but are be at least three times more expensive to develop.

Perhaps the biggest drawback to relying on wind power is the immense amount of land required. IWTs must be placed far apart so they don’t interfere with each turbine’s “wind capture area.”


In his keynote address at the 2018 America First Energy Conference , Louisiana Attorney General Jeff Landry explained that generating enough electricity to power just the Houston metropolitan area would require almost 900 square miles of wind turbines. This is six-times more land than an equivalent solar farm of photovoltaic cells, assuming they operate at full efficiency 24/7/365; dozens of times the land required for an equivalent nuclear power plant; and 16 times the size of Washington, DC.

Wind is also much more expensive than existing conventional energy sources.
The US Energy Information Administration (EIA) claims that wind power can generate electricity for 8˘ per kilowatt-hour (kWh). However, this is based on poor assumptions and glossing over important realities.

It assumes average wind turbine lifetime is 30 years, the same as a conventional fossil fuel power plant. In reality, most turbines last only 15 years, and less offshore. It ignores the cost of backup power. It includes no cost for transmission lines from wind farms to distant cities. Most significantly, it omits subsidies.

A 2016 Utah State University study shows the following extra costs omitted or miscalculated by the EIA for wind power: 15-years not 30-year life expectancies (US 7˘ per kWh), backup power (at least 2.3˘ cents if the back-up is natural gas), transmission costs (2.7˘), government subsidies (23˘). All that means the real cost of wind power is a staggering 43˘ per kilowatt hour! That’s seven times the cost of natural gas-generated electricity! What family, factory, hospital, office, church or school can afford this?

GND promoters would like wind farms everywhere, but even the most supposedly environmentally friendly communities often do not want wind turbines in their own neighborhoods: they spoil the landscape and cause serious environmental impacts, such as killing many birds and bats each year.

In 2013, Loss, Will and Marra estimated that 140,000 to 328,000 birds are killed each year in the contiguous United States by wind turbines. The Audubon Society says that makes wind “the most threatening form of green energy.” Other sources say the death tolls are far higher.

Read the depressing rest here

https://www.heartland.org/news-opinion/news/costly-wind-power-menaces-man-and-na...
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