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Voting reform in the House of Reps (Read 3496 times)
Auggie
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Voting reform in the House of Reps
May 19th, 2019 at 11:02am
 
The proposal goes like this:

We abolish electorates for good and instead members represent the entire State as one electorate (much like the Senate). At election time, the voters vote for the political party of their choice in closed-lists. For e.g.

1) ALP

2) Liberal

3) National

And so forth..

All voters need to do is mark which party they vote for.

When counting the votes, all votes are tallied on a nationwide scale. Whichever party receives and at least 40% of the nationwide vote AND receives a plurality of votes will automatically gain 90 seats (of 150) in the House of Reps, which seats will be allocated in each State
respectively.

This means that the majority party will gain 'additional seats' at the expense of other parties.

What is the benefit of this?

The biggest benefit is that it ensures that the majority party will always have a comfortable majority in the House of Reps and prevents hung parliaments or minority governments.
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Re: Voting reform in the House of Reps
Reply #1 - May 19th, 2019 at 11:13am
 
Hmm ... like the US system "lite"?

I think there is merit in some change taking place.



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Auggie
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Re: Voting reform in the House of Reps
Reply #2 - May 19th, 2019 at 11:24am
 
Captain Nemo wrote on May 19th, 2019 at 11:13am:
Hmm ... like the US system "lite"?

I think there is merit in some change taking place.





If you're referring to the electoral college, then yes in a similar sense.
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Re: Voting reform in the House of Reps
Reply #3 - May 19th, 2019 at 11:28am
 
Terrible idea.
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Re: Voting reform in the House of Reps
Reply #4 - May 19th, 2019 at 11:33am
 
freediver wrote on May 19th, 2019 at 11:28am:
Terrible idea.



ditto...

get rid of preference...


now we sit and wait for the senate members to crawl across the line..with 3rd or 4th choices.....


bahhh humbug!
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Re: Voting reform in the House of Reps
Reply #5 - May 19th, 2019 at 11:46am
 
freediver wrote on May 19th, 2019 at 11:28am:
Terrible idea.


So, do you believe that minority governments and hung parliaments are conducive to stability and good governance?
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Re: Voting reform in the House of Reps
Reply #6 - May 19th, 2019 at 12:18pm
 
Auggie wrote on May 19th, 2019 at 11:46am:
freediver wrote on May 19th, 2019 at 11:28am:
Terrible idea.


So, do you believe that minority governments and hung parliaments are conducive to stability and good governance?


Yes. This is done deliberately to reduce corruption and drift towards dictatorship. You are mistaking stability of the parliament for stable governance. Giving a minority government carte blanch for major reform makes unstable governance inevitable, like in the US.
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Re: Voting reform in the House of Reps
Reply #7 - May 19th, 2019 at 12:24pm
 
Get rid of preferencing. It’s a farce that gives is morons who win seats regardless of the fact another candidate wins thousands more votes than them.
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Re: Voting reform in the House of Reps
Reply #8 - May 19th, 2019 at 12:29pm
 
freediver wrote on May 19th, 2019 at 12:18pm:
Auggie wrote on May 19th, 2019 at 11:46am:
freediver wrote on May 19th, 2019 at 11:28am:
Terrible idea.


So, do you believe that minority governments and hung parliaments are conducive to stability and good governance?


Yes. This is done deliberately to reduce corruption and drift towards dictatorship. You are mistaking stability of the parliament for stable governance. Giving a minority government carte blanch for major reform makes unstable governance inevitable, like in the US.


Can you give an example in Australia of where majority governments (when they have been achieved) have led to greater corruption and a drift toward dictatorship?

Can you also explain how a minority government in the House of Reps can have carte blanche for major reform when it has to content with an equally powerful upper House that is not controlled by that minority government?

Can you also explain how a minority government with 'carte blanche' for major reform can throw someone in jail for 'speaking their mind' when it has no power to do so?
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Re: Voting reform in the House of Reps
Reply #9 - May 19th, 2019 at 12:35pm
 
I cannot give you an example from Australia because the system works fairly well at preventing it from happening. If your argument is that the system might continue to function as you make it worse, I will give you that, but it is still a terrible idea. Also, there is no guarantee, as you suggest, that they would not be able to get legislation through the senate also.

Your proposal is also fundamentally undemocratic and an arbitrary allocation of power.
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Re: Voting reform in the House of Reps
Reply #10 - May 19th, 2019 at 12:54pm
 
freediver wrote on May 19th, 2019 at 12:35pm:
I cannot give you an example from Australia because the system works fairly well at preventing it from happening. If your argument is that the system might continue to function as you make it worse, I will give you that, but it is still a terrible idea. Also, there is no guarantee, as you suggest, that they would not be able to get legislation through the senate also.

Your proposal is also fundamentally undemocratic and an arbitrary allocation of power.


So, you think the system is fundamentally undemocratic and an arbitrary allocation of power but you can't give me an example of how it would be 'fundamentally democratic' and an arbitrary allocation of power?

Is this similar to the argument that you make when you say that 'all Muslims support terrorism' but can't give examples of 'all Muslims who support terrorism?'
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Re: Voting reform in the House of Reps
Reply #11 - May 19th, 2019 at 1:01pm
 
Auggie wrote on May 19th, 2019 at 12:54pm:
freediver wrote on May 19th, 2019 at 12:35pm:
I cannot give you an example from Australia because the system works fairly well at preventing it from happening. If your argument is that the system might continue to function as you make it worse, I will give you that, but it is still a terrible idea. Also, there is no guarantee, as you suggest, that they would not be able to get legislation through the senate also.

Your proposal is also fundamentally undemocratic and an arbitrary allocation of power.


So, you think the system is fundamentally undemocratic and an arbitrary allocation of power but you can't give me an example of how it would be 'fundamentally democratic' and an arbitrary allocation of power?

Is this similar to the argument that you make when you say that 'all Muslims support terrorism' but can't give examples of 'all Muslims who support terrorism?'


Correct. I cannot give any examples from Australia's past of how stupid your idea is. It is unprecedented.
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Re: Voting reform in the House of Reps
Reply #12 - May 19th, 2019 at 1:26pm
 
freediver wrote on May 19th, 2019 at 1:01pm:
Auggie wrote on May 19th, 2019 at 12:54pm:
freediver wrote on May 19th, 2019 at 12:35pm:
I cannot give you an example from Australia because the system works fairly well at preventing it from happening. If your argument is that the system might continue to function as you make it worse, I will give you that, but it is still a terrible idea. Also, there is no guarantee, as you suggest, that they would not be able to get legislation through the senate also.

Your proposal is also fundamentally undemocratic and an arbitrary allocation of power.


So, you think the system is fundamentally undemocratic and an arbitrary allocation of power but you can't give me an example of how it would be 'fundamentally democratic' and an arbitrary allocation of power?

Is this similar to the argument that you make when you say that 'all Muslims support terrorism' but can't give examples of 'all Muslims who support terrorism?'


Correct. I cannot give any examples from Australia's past of how stupid your idea is. It is unprecedented.


Having one party control the House of Reps is not unprecedented. In fact, the opposite is only a recent phenomenon.

Edit: FD, if you're implying that majority government in a parliamentary system is undemocratic, then perhaps you would support have a proportional representation in the House of Reps?? Given that no party has achieved a %50+1 in the majority of elections (at least recently) this would essentially mean that we would have a coalition government, which would, according to you, be better for democracy.

If you accept the effectiveness of the parliamentary system of government, then the way that it's most effective if one party controls the House of Reps in order to implement its agenda.
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« Last Edit: May 19th, 2019 at 1:38pm by Auggie »  

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Re: Voting reform in the House of Reps
Reply #13 - May 19th, 2019 at 1:40pm
 
a stupid idea. The senate was designed that way for a reason.
People crying for changes to the senate just so they can ram their ideas through should probably not be in govt. in the first place.
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Re: Voting reform in the House of Reps
Reply #14 - May 19th, 2019 at 3:05pm
 
Auggie wrote on May 19th, 2019 at 1:26pm:
freediver wrote on May 19th, 2019 at 1:01pm:
Auggie wrote on May 19th, 2019 at 12:54pm:
freediver wrote on May 19th, 2019 at 12:35pm:
I cannot give you an example from Australia because the system works fairly well at preventing it from happening. If your argument is that the system might continue to function as you make it worse, I will give you that, but it is still a terrible idea. Also, there is no guarantee, as you suggest, that they would not be able to get legislation through the senate also.

Your proposal is also fundamentally undemocratic and an arbitrary allocation of power.


So, you think the system is fundamentally undemocratic and an arbitrary allocation of power but you can't give me an example of how it would be 'fundamentally democratic' and an arbitrary allocation of power?

Is this similar to the argument that you make when you say that 'all Muslims support terrorism' but can't give examples of 'all Muslims who support terrorism?'


Correct. I cannot give any examples from Australia's past of how stupid your idea is. It is unprecedented.


Having one party control the House of Reps is not unprecedented. In fact, the opposite is only a recent phenomenon.

Edit: FD, if you're implying that majority government in a parliamentary system is undemocratic, then perhaps you would support have a proportional representation in the House of Reps?? Given that no party has achieved a %50+1 in the majority of elections (at least recently) this would essentially mean that we would have a coalition government, which would, according to you, be better for democracy.

If you accept the effectiveness of the parliamentary system of government, then the way that it's most effective if one party controls the House of Reps in order to implement its agenda.


Even if 60% of the voting public oppose that agenda?
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