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Muslims: slavery benefits society (Read 2868 times)
Mattyfisk
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Re: Muslims: slavery benefits society
Reply #15 - May 18th, 2019 at 5:39pm
 
Quote:
Although authoritarian in many respects, the empire had some democratic features. Besides universal suffrage, it permitted the development of political parties.


The debate here is not so much about democracy as it is about modernity. German liberalisation had no effect on Nazi society, which was all about production targets. Here, we see industrialisation exaggerated to the point where human life is totally subservient to industrial output.

We see cost-benefits analysis on the right number of calories to work AND die within 3 weeks. We see the amount of Xyclon B experimented with to achieve the most cost-efficient killing. Use more, and you run out of Xyclon B. Use less, and the long, drawn-out death process slows down production targets.

How to perform this process and get the most out of your dead untermenschen? Gold from their teeth, jewellery from the seams in clothing, and even wool from their hair?

You use a special unit of slaves that you feed well and replace every 3 months for maximum productivity. When their time's up, you put them in the showers they know so well.

This, remember, is how to achieve maximum efficiency. There were no wage-labourers in Auschwitz, dear, and obviously no democracy.
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Mattyfisk
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Re: Muslims: slavery benefits society
Reply #16 - May 18th, 2019 at 5:43pm
 
Frank wrote on May 18th, 2019 at 4:54pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on May 17th, 2019 at 11:43pm:
Frank wrote on May 17th, 2019 at 10:26pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on May 17th, 2019 at 3:02pm:
freediver wrote on May 17th, 2019 at 1:25pm:
What benefits Gandalf? I do not address them because they are all in your head,


So creating and running the greatest slave trade the world has ever known had zero benefits to the societies that ran them?

Damn, they must have missed the memo...

Quote:
The industrial revolution in western Europe did not rely on slavery either.


Tell me FD, which people worked the plantations that produced the raw materials for the first mass consumer markets in Europe - including tobacco, sugar, coffee?

Muslims have been the most significant slave traders. They still are.  Islam permits slavery. Christianity does not.  You Muslims are the most dishonest arsecoveres and dissembling liars in any discussion about slavery - and most other things.


"Slaves, obey your earthly masters". Peter 2:18.

Dishonest arsecoverers and dissembling liars, innit.


Oiketai means servants in Greek, not slaves, slimey.


Good point, dear boy. It would appear that the English during the time of King James made no such distinction.

You?
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freediver
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Re: Muslims: slavery benefits society
Reply #17 - May 18th, 2019 at 6:06pm
 
Karnal are you suggesting that killing your workers over a 3 week period is good for the economy? You are making the same mistake of confusing correlation with causation. Every time you stumble across something happening in history, you immediately assume that it was better than the alternatives, as if the locals at the time could not possibly have made the wrong decision.

Quote:
The debate here is not so much about democracy as it is about modernity.


It's about whether slavery benefits society. Muslims invariably say it does, so as to avoid facing any uncomfortable realities about why the liberal democracies of the world are so far ahead of the Muslim nations. They can just blame it all on the Atlantic slave trade. Gandalf will be along soon to do just that.

Next time you forget, just check the thread title.

Quote:
German liberalisation had no effect on Nazi society


German liberalism is the reason why they were able to have the biggest economy in Europe before the Nazis came along, and why it bounced back so readily from the Nazi era to become a wealthy liberal democracy - one of the most advanced in the world. The Nazis did not invent the German economy, they exploited it. They were only able to do what they did because of the economy that was built up before hand. Far from having no effect, the Nazis were entirely reliant on it.

Compare this to Iraq and Afghanistan. They are being dragged kicking and screaming into the 16th century, stopping only to try to reinvent the slave society. When we are faced with the reality of what slavery looks like, we see instantly that it is a bad idea in all respects, but for some reason if you see it from the distance of history you loose the ability to discern.
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Mattyfisk
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Re: Muslims: slavery benefits society
Reply #18 - May 18th, 2019 at 6:36pm
 
freediver wrote on May 18th, 2019 at 5:35pm:
Quote:
You still haven't shown a comparison in output between wage-labour and slavery, FD. The arbiter of this debate is productivity.


I gave two examples already. A few years after the US civil war, cotton production in the US south was back to pre-war levels, with free whites and blacks doing the picking. Cotton is one of the strongest pro slavery examples people often give, due to the nature of the work involved at the time to pick it. The industrial revolution took off in nations with a free market in human labour because the factories were more productive there and people often worked harder than slaves. I'll add a third. Modern human productivity in the liberal democracies is infinitely higher today than under any slave based economy in world history.

Quote:
For example, was it cheaper in the Nazi era to work Jews to death in concentration camps than to employ Germans on award wages and conditions?


The concentration camps were a drain on the Nazi economy and war machine. They were not a profit centre.

Quote:
Companies like IG Farben believed it was.


Sure, but they were not paying for them. Any company will sing the virtues of a government handout. Like Ford and Holden telling us how wonderful subsidies were for the economy.

Quote:
There is no more incentive for workers receiving an hourly pay rate "to work harder" than there is for slaves who receive a bowl of watery soup and a piece of sawdust bread.


Yes there is, and they did. In my UK example, they worked longer hours. Not because their evil boss set 14 hour days, but because they chose to work 14 hour days. There is also an incentive for everyone to innovate.

Quote:
Employee of the Month just doesn't cut it, dear.


Being promoted or head hunted does. Simply being in control of your own destiny is enough.


Factory workers and cotton pickers don't get promoted or head-hunted, FD. The English working classes moved to the cities because they couldn't get work on the land. There was no such thing as upward mobility in the 18th century. If you were born a serf, you stayed one.



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Frank
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Re: Muslims: slavery benefits society
Reply #19 - May 18th, 2019 at 6:43pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on May 18th, 2019 at 5:43pm:
Frank wrote on May 18th, 2019 at 4:54pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on May 17th, 2019 at 11:43pm:
Frank wrote on May 17th, 2019 at 10:26pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on May 17th, 2019 at 3:02pm:
freediver wrote on May 17th, 2019 at 1:25pm:
What benefits Gandalf? I do not address them because they are all in your head,


So creating and running the greatest slave trade the world has ever known had zero benefits to the societies that ran them?

Damn, they must have missed the memo...

Quote:
The industrial revolution in western Europe did not rely on slavery either.


Tell me FD, which people worked the plantations that produced the raw materials for the first mass consumer markets in Europe - including tobacco, sugar, coffee?

Muslims have been the most significant slave traders. They still are.  Islam permits slavery. Christianity does not.  You Muslims are the most dishonest arsecoveres and dissembling liars in any discussion about slavery - and most other things.


"Slaves, obey your earthly masters". Peter 2:18.

Dishonest arsecoverers and dissembling liars, innit.


Oiketai means servants in Greek, not slaves, slimey.


Good point, dear boy. It would appear that the English during the time of King James made no such distinction.

You?


Does it appear thus to your Paki eyes?  Considering that the NT was written in Greek and the relevant word, oiketai, means servant, it matters little what your lying Paki eyes tell you, isn't it,Edna?

Now you are adamantly sticking with a mis-translation (in the King James it IS rendered as servants, BTW), just to defend Muslim slaving???  You are a F**g Paki, through and through. You had too many of them up you and they have infected you with dishonesty and probably much else.

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« Last Edit: May 18th, 2019 at 6:48pm by Frank »  

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.
 
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Mattyfisk
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Re: Muslims: slavery benefits society
Reply #20 - May 18th, 2019 at 7:33pm
 
freediver wrote on May 18th, 2019 at 6:06pm:
Karnal are you suggesting that killing your workers over a 3 week period is good for the economy? You are making the same mistake of confusing correlation with causation. Every time you stumble across something happening in history, you immediately assume that it was better than the alternatives, as if the locals at the time could not possibly have made the wrong decision.

Quote:
The debate here is not so much about democracy as it is about modernity.


It's about whether slavery benefits society. Muslims invariably say it does, so as to avoid facing any uncomfortable realities about why the liberal democracies of the world are so far ahead of the Muslim nations. They can just blame it all on the Atlantic slave trade. Gandalf will be along soon to do just that.

Next time you forget, just check the thread title.

Quote:
German liberalisation had no effect on Nazi society


German liberalism is the reason why they were able to have the biggest economy in Europe before the Nazis came along, and why it bounced back so readily from the Nazi era to become a wealthy liberal democracy - one of the most advanced in the world. The Nazis did not invent the German economy, they exploited it. They were only able to do what they did because of the economy that was built up before hand. Far from having no effect, the Nazis were entirely reliant on it.

Compare this to Iraq and Afghanistan. They are being dragged kicking and screaming into the 16th century, stopping only to try to reinvent the slave society. When we are faced with the reality of what slavery looks like, we see instantly that it is a bad idea in all respects, but for some reason if you see it from the distance of history you loose the ability to discern.


It wasn't liberalism that defined the German economy, FD, it was industrialisation. Germany, like Japan, had industrialised. It may surprise you to know that Afghanistan hasn't industrialised.

Now you know very well you're just having a bit of fun here. No Muslim is calling for the reintroduction of slavery, especially G. No Muslim country has slavery.

By your own logic, Jews support slavery because it's in the Torah, but that's not the point here.

You're trying to wash away Whitey's history of slavery, pretending that because we made the switch to wage-labour we've somehow expunged the Holocaust, the slave trade, the gulags and concentration camps, all thoroughly modern, industrialised, and white.

Freeeeedom, innit.
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Mattyfisk
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Re: Muslims: slavery benefits society
Reply #21 - May 18th, 2019 at 7:50pm
 
Frank wrote on May 18th, 2019 at 6:43pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on May 18th, 2019 at 5:43pm:
Frank wrote on May 18th, 2019 at 4:54pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on May 17th, 2019 at 11:43pm:
Frank wrote on May 17th, 2019 at 10:26pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on May 17th, 2019 at 3:02pm:
freediver wrote on May 17th, 2019 at 1:25pm:
What benefits Gandalf? I do not address them because they are all in your head,


So creating and running the greatest slave trade the world has ever known had zero benefits to the societies that ran them?

Damn, they must have missed the memo...

Quote:
The industrial revolution in western Europe did not rely on slavery either.


Tell me FD, which people worked the plantations that produced the raw materials for the first mass consumer markets in Europe - including tobacco, sugar, coffee?

Muslims have been the most significant slave traders. They still are.  Islam permits slavery. Christianity does not.  You Muslims are the most dishonest arsecoveres and dissembling liars in any discussion about slavery - and most other things.


"Slaves, obey your earthly masters". Peter 2:18.

Dishonest arsecoverers and dissembling liars, innit.


Oiketai means servants in Greek, not slaves, slimey.


Good point, dear boy. It would appear that the English during the time of King James made no such distinction.

You?


Does it appear thus to your Paki eyes?  Considering that the NT was written in Greek and the relevant word, oiketai, means servant, it matters little what your lying Paki eyes tell you, isn't it,Edna?

Now you are adamantly sticking with a mis-translation (in the King James it IS rendered as servants, BTW), just to defend Muslim slaving???  You are a F**g Paki, through and through. You had too many of them up you and they have infected you with dishonesty and probably much else.



Thank you, old boy, you're right indeed. King James did say servants.

Most Bibles since have used the term slaves. Now what do you make of that?
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Re: Muslims: slavery benefits society
Reply #22 - May 18th, 2019 at 8:33pm
 
Quote:
Factory workers and cotton pickers don't get promoted or head-hunted, FD.


So who gets made foreman?

Quote:
The English working classes moved to the cities because they couldn't get work on the land.


In other words, they had one more option than most people throughout history. What point are you trying to make Karnal? That having a motivation for doing something means you are not free?

Quote:
There was no such thing as upward mobility in the 18th century. If you were born a serf, you stayed one.


There were far more options for upward mobility than existed previously, and at the same time in most places. You appear to be arguing that the UK was not good enough to overpower nations that existed centuries ago because they do not meet our lofty standards. If there is an actual argument in there somewhere that I am missing, you should tell us what it is.

Quote:
It wasn't liberalism that defined the German economy, FD, it was industrialisation.


Which took off in western Europe rather than elsewhere because of liberalisation of the market in human labour. Are you attempting to disagree with me?

Quote:
Now you know very well you're just having a bit of fun here. No Muslim is calling for the reintroduction of slavery, especially G.


I did not say they were. Shall I repeat myself?

Quote:
No Muslim country has slavery.


Thanks to repeated interventions by non-Muslim countries.

Quote:
You're trying to wash away Whitey's history of slavery, pretending that because we made the switch to wage-labour we've somehow expunged the Holocaust, the slave trade, the gulags and concentration camps, all thoroughly modern, industrialised, and white.


You are getting hysterical Karnal. Shall I copy and paste the OP, or do you think you could find your own way to reading it?
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Mattyfisk
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Re: Muslims: slavery benefits society
Reply #23 - May 18th, 2019 at 11:48pm
 
Quote:
So who gets made foreman?


Good point, FD. Do you aspire to become the foreman?
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Mattyfisk
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Re: Muslims: slavery benefits society
Reply #24 - May 19th, 2019 at 12:35pm
 
Quote:
I gave two examples already. A few years after the US civil war, cotton production in the US south was back to pre-war levels, with free whites and blacks doing the picking.


Good example. Do you have some sort of analysis that supports this?
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Re: Muslims: slavery benefits society
Reply #25 - May 19th, 2019 at 12:37pm
 
I could give you a reference.
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Mattyfisk
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Re: Muslims: slavery benefits society
Reply #26 - May 19th, 2019 at 12:58pm
 
freediver wrote on May 19th, 2019 at 12:37pm:
I could give you a reference.


I can find Abu in the Wiki already thanks, FD.
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moses
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Re: Muslims: slavery benefits society
Reply #27 - May 19th, 2019 at 2:38pm
 
muslim slavery benefited the Irish Rovers I think , remember the bit about:

...oh lord I'm so forlorn, I just can't find no eunuch horns....
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Mattyfisk
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Re: Muslims: slavery benefits society
Reply #28 - May 19th, 2019 at 5:20pm
 
moses wrote on May 19th, 2019 at 2:38pm:
muslim slavery benefited the Irish Rovers I think , remember the bit about:

https://i.imgur.com/kyL5uyx.gifoh lord I'm so forlorn, I just can't find no eunuch horns.https://i.imgur.com/kyL5uyx.gif


Oh, I know. Can you think of any songs Whitey's plantations in the Deep South might have inspired, Moses?
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Re: Muslims: slavery benefits society
Reply #29 - May 19th, 2019 at 7:16pm
 
We should have Slavery here.
If you 'murder' - you become a Slave for life and wish you were dead anyway. Wink
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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