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Indonesian law spreading Islamism (Read 2467 times)
freediver
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Re: Indonesian law spreading Islamism
Reply #30 - May 29th, 2019 at 10:08am
 
I apologise for being distracted by a Muslim once more telling blatant lies about jihad.

Their core mission is to overthrow the government Gandalf. I expect that is why they were banned. I grant you that they were banned prior to actually attempting to overthrow the government, but it is a long bow from there to claim they were banned for what they said about Islam.

Which is of course why you never actually demonstrated that they were banned because of what they said about Islam. BTW, seeing as you are struggling so much with logic, merely demonstrating that they were banned and that they also interpret Islam is not a demonstration that that  was the reason for their ban. It makes no more sense than pointing out that they eat corn flakes for breakfast and then claiming that was the reason for their ban.

We have a clear example of Ahok being jailed for what he said about Islam. The Indonesian government does that for people who offer a positive interpretation of Islam - similar to yours. But it does not do this for the Islamic extremists. Yet your religion compels you to ignore the blatant double standard and actually defend the shift towards Islamic extremism. That's what Islam is.
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Indonesian law spreading Islamism
Reply #31 - May 29th, 2019 at 10:43am
 
freediver wrote on May 29th, 2019 at 10:08am:
Which is of course why you never actually demonstrated that they were banned because of what they said about Islam. BTW, seeing as you are struggling so much with logic, merely demonstrating that they were banned and that they also interpret Islam is not a demonstration that that  was the reason for their ban. It makes no more sense than pointing out that they eat corn flakes for breakfast and then claiming that was the reason for their ban.


You didn't say they can say whatever they like about Islam FD, you said

freediver wrote on Feb 22nd, 2019 at 9:49am:
Islamic extremists in Indonesia can say whatever they want.


I take it you no longer stand by this. Good.

Also, you made it very clear why you think they were banned - for wanting jihad and establishing the caliphate. You even quoted their position on jihad, and how threatening it must be to the state. This was not an unrelated 'by the way' thing, akin to them eating cornflakes for breakfast - it was an obvious causal link. No one is trying to draw a link between eating cornflakes and posing a violent threat to the state. However the same can't be said for their position on violently overthrowing the state. That should be pretty obvious I would have thought.

Now you are trying to tell me that talk of jihad and caliphates and how to violently carry them out isn't talk about Islam. To which there is no sensible response.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Indonesian law spreading Islamism
Reply #32 - May 29th, 2019 at 10:44am
 
freediver wrote on May 29th, 2019 at 10:08am:
Their core mission is to overthrow the government Gandalf.


Yes, but definitely doesn't involve them saying anything about Islam - eh FD?
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: Indonesian law spreading Islamism
Reply #33 - May 29th, 2019 at 11:34am
 
Quote:
Also, you made it very clear why you think they were banned - for wanting jihad and establishing the caliphate.


Perhaps you should quote what I actually said.
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Indonesian law spreading Islamism
Reply #34 - May 29th, 2019 at 12:05pm
 
I see FD, so you just quoted that wiki article for no reason at all then.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: Indonesian law spreading Islamism
Reply #35 - May 29th, 2019 at 1:34pm
 
I quoted it to demonstrate that you were lying about jihad.

freediver wrote on May 18th, 2019 at 3:51pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on May 17th, 2019 at 2:22pm:
Thats funny because Hizb ut tahrir are strictly non-violent.

So if its not for violence, and apparently its definitely not for what they say about Islam - why do you think they were banned?


Oh look, a Muslim lying about Jihad.

Roll Eyes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hizb_ut-Tahrir#Jihad

HT texts define Jihad as "war undertaken for the sake of Allah (swt) to raise high His (swt)[Note 23] word" and requiring an army (Institutions of State in the Khilafah).[143][144] They declare the necessity of jihad so that Da'wah will be carried "to all mankind" and will "bring them into the Khilafah state," and the importance of declaring "Jihad against the Kuffar without any lenience or hesitation;" (Ummah's Charter),[125][145] as well as the need to fight unbelievers who refuse to be ruled by Islam, even if they pay tribute (The Islamic Personality).

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Re: Indonesian law spreading Islamism
Reply #36 - May 29th, 2019 at 3:04pm
 
gandi wrote:Reply #22 - Yesterday at 2:43pm

Quote:
That can't be right.

I'm always being told what an Islamist shithole Indonesia is.


It's certainly not up there with the more modern societies is it?

I mean what do you call a place where the muslims who lose the election riot to the degree that 6 people die and 200 are wounded?

What do you call a place where a bloke (Ahok) is jailed for 2 years for blasphemy, because he had the impudence to say the qur'an allows muslims to vote for a non muslim?
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Re: Indonesian law spreading Islamism
Reply #37 - May 29th, 2019 at 3:23pm
 
freediver wrote on May 29th, 2019 at 11:34am:
Quote:
Also, you made it very clear why you think they were banned - for wanting jihad and establishing the caliphate.


Perhaps you should quote what I actually said.


"Mindless collective, no individuality whatsoever, so unfair."
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Re: Indonesian law spreading Islamism
Reply #38 - May 29th, 2019 at 5:58pm
 
freediver wrote on May 29th, 2019 at 1:34pm:
I quoted it to demonstrate that you were lying about jihad.


HUT are non-violent FD. It even says that in the article you just cherry picked.

You of all people should know that merely talking in support of violence doesn't make one violent - given the way you were apologising for nazis on that very point last week.

Are you standing by your claim that muslims calling for jihad and return to the caliphate are not saying anything about Islam? Feel free to duck and weave for another 10 pages before answering.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Frank
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Re: Indonesian law spreading Islamism
Reply #39 - May 29th, 2019 at 6:52pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on May 29th, 2019 at 5:58pm:
freediver wrote on May 29th, 2019 at 1:34pm:
I quoted it to demonstrate that you were lying about jihad.


HUT are non-violent FD. It even says that in the article you just cherry picked.

You of all people should know that merely talking in support of violence doesn't make one violent - given the way you were apologising for nazis on that very point last week.

Are you standing by your claim that muslims calling for jihad and return to the caliphate are not saying anything about Islam? Feel free to duck and weave for another 10 pages before answering.



This is an example of how Islam rots the mind.

Try, "merely supporting Islamophobia doesn't make one Islamophobic"
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Indonesian law spreading Islamism
Reply #40 - May 29th, 2019 at 7:58pm
 
Apples and oranges. Neither supporting Islamophobia or being Islamophobic requires any physical act.

Violence on the other hand does.

To say that someone is 'violent' simply by advocating violence enables violence to suddenly
become a non-physical act - which it clearly isn't.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Frank
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Re: Indonesian law spreading Islamism
Reply #41 - May 29th, 2019 at 10:04pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on May 29th, 2019 at 7:58pm:
Apples and oranges. Neither supporting Islamophobia or being Islamophobic requires any physical act.

Violence on the other hand does.

To say that someone is 'violent' simply by advocating violence enables violence to suddenly
become a non-physical act - which it clearly isn't.

So it's ok to support Islamophobia as long as you are not violent?


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polite_gandalf
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Re: Indonesian law spreading Islamism
Reply #42 - May 30th, 2019 at 10:46am
 
supporting Islamophobia is never ok IMO.

Whether its the same as actually being an Islamophobe is a trivial semantic point - and in no way comparable to the difference between being violent and supporting violence.

I'm sure you would support violence in certain situations - as most people would. That doesn't in any way make you a "violent" person though.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Indonesian law spreading Islamism
Reply #43 - May 30th, 2019 at 11:27am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on May 29th, 2019 at 5:58pm:
Feel free to duck and weave for another 10 pages before answering.


...or indeed deflect some more by quoting this post in a deflection thread as if you are making some profound point that no one cares about... whatever floats your boat.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: Indonesian law spreading Islamism
Reply #44 - May 30th, 2019 at 1:11pm
 
Quote:
supporting Islamophobia is never ok IMO.


But supporting the slaughter of Jews is?

How about offering up some feeble defense of the Indonesians jailing those who try to stop the tide of Islamofascism?

All these are perfectly fine, but Islamophobia is never OK?
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