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Climate change: The Earth is in a death spiral (Read 2038 times)
Laugh till you cry
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Climate change: The Earth is in a death spiral
May 7th, 2019 at 5:47pm
 
It's already too late. The tipping point is passed.

The punters have accepted they are domed and are disguising their angst with diversions to homosexuality and fornication.

It is arguable that Donald Trump was manufactured by the 'deep state' to divert the attention of the public from the end of days.

Perhaps Trump will push the button and end it all.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/14/earth-death-spiral-radical...

Quote:
The Earth is in a death spiral. It will take radical action to save us
George Monbiot

Climate breakdown could be rapid and unpredictable. We can no longer tinker around the edges and hope minor changes will avert collapse
...
It was a moment of the kind that changes lives. At a press conference held by climate activists Extinction Rebellion last week, two of us journalists pressed the organisers on whether their aims were realistic. They have called, for example, for UK carbon emissions to be reduced to net zero by 2025. Wouldn’t it be better, we asked, to pursue some intermediate aims?

A young woman called Lizia Woolf stepped forward. She hadn’t spoken before, but the passion, grief and fury of her response was utterly compelling. “What is it that you are asking me as a 20-year-old to face and to accept about my future and my life? … This is an emergency. We are facing extinction. When you ask questions like that, what is it you want me to feel?” We had no answer.

Softer aims might be politically realistic, but they are physically unrealistic. Only shifts commensurate with the scale of our existential crises have any prospect of averting them. Hopeless realism, tinkering at the edges of the problem, got us into this mess. It will not get us out.

Public figures talk and act as if environmental change will be linear and gradual. But the Earth’s systems are highly complex, and complex systems do not respond to pressure in linear ways. When these systems interact (because the world’s atmosphere, oceans, land surface and lifeforms do not sit placidly within the boxes that make study more convenient), their reactions to change become highly unpredictable. Small perturbations can ramify wildly. Tipping points are likely to remain invisible until we have passed them. We could see changes of state so abrupt and profound that no continuity can be safely assumed.

Only one of the many life support systems on which we depend – soils, aquifers, rainfall, ice, the pattern of winds and currents, pollinators, biological abundance and diversity – need fail for everything to slide. For example, when Arctic sea ice melts beyond a certain point, the positive feedbacks this triggers (such as darker water absorbing more heat, melting permafrost releasing methane, shifts in the polar vortex) could render runaway climate breakdown unstoppable. When the Younger Dryas period ended 11,600 years ago, temperatures rose 10C within a decade.

I don’t believe such a collapse is yet inevitable, or that a commensurate response is either technically or economically impossible. When the US joined the second world war in 1941, it replaced a civilian economy with a military economy within months. As Jack Doyle records in his book Taken for a Ride, “In one year, General Motors developed, tooled and completely built from scratch 1,000 Avenger and 1,000 Wildcat aircraft … Barely a year after Pontiac received a navy contract to build anti-shipping missiles, the company began delivering the completed product to carrier squadrons around the world.” And this was before advanced information technology made everything faster.


The problem is political. A fascinating analysis by the social science professor Kevin MacKay contends that oligarchy has been a more fundamental cause of the collapse of civilisations than social complexity or energy demand. Control by oligarchs, he argues, thwarts rational decision-making, because the short-term interests of the elite are radically different to the long-term interests of society. This explains why past civilisations have collapsed “despite possessing the cultural and technological know-how needed to resolve their crises”. Economic elites, which benefit from social dysfunction, block the necessary solutions.

The oligarchic control of wealth, politics, media and public discourse explains the comprehensive institutional failure now pushing us towards disaster. Think of Donald Trump and his cabinet of multi-millionaires; the influence of the Koch brothers in funding rightwing organisations; the Murdoch empire and its massive contribution to climate science denial; or the oil and motor companies whose lobbying prevents a faster shift to new technologies.

It is not just governments that have failed to respond, though they have failed spectacularly. Public sector broadcasters have systematically shut down environmental coverage, while allowing the opaquely funded lobbyists that masquerade as thinktanks to shape public discourse and deny what we face. Academics, afraid to upset their funders and colleagues, have bitten their lips.

Even the bodies that claim to be addressing our predicament remain locked within destructive frameworks. ...
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Ajax
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CO2 has never controlled
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Re: Climate change: The Earth is in a death spiral
Reply #1 - May 7th, 2019 at 6:01pm
 
In accordance with the IPCC and associates computer models that in 1990 predicted we would reach a warming by the end of this century of 2.7°C, we should be at a certain plateau by now 28 years later.

Guess what we have not reached the heights that the computer models back in 1990 predicted.

Therefore if the theory doesn't match the observations in nature, then the theory is wrong.

It doesn't matter who made the guess/ theory if it doesn't match observations in nature its WRONG.......!!!!!



Empirical data observed in the last 28 since 1990 predicts a warming of 1°C by end of this century.

So there is nothing to worry about, we don't have to send billions of tax payers money to the UN and the stock market.

The temperature increase will only be 1°C by end of this century as observations tell us.

Now how about arcing up about the destruction of our rainforests something real.............. Tongue

...
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« Last Edit: May 7th, 2019 at 6:10pm by Ajax »  

1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery &  prison" Regas Feraeos
 
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lee
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Re: Climate change: The Earth is in a death spiral
Reply #2 - May 7th, 2019 at 6:46pm
 
Laugh till you cry wrote on May 7th, 2019 at 5:47pm:
A young woman called Lizia Woolf stepped forward. She hadn’t spoken before, but the passion, grief and fury of her response was utterly compelling. “What is it that you are asking me as a 20-year-old to face and to accept about my future and my life? … This is an emergency. We are facing extinction. When you ask questions like that, what is it you want me to feel?” We had no answer.



Did she give a time frame on this extinction? What was the source? Vanity Fair? Gamers Monthly? Ocasio-Cortez? Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

Laugh till you cry wrote on May 7th, 2019 at 5:47pm:
For example, when Arctic sea ice melts beyond a certain point, the positive feedbacks this triggers (such as darker water absorbing more heat, melting permafrost releasing methane, shifts in the polar vortex) could render runaway climate breakdown unstoppable.


or not. Wink

Laugh till you cry wrote on May 7th, 2019 at 5:47pm:
When the Younger Dryas period ended 11,600 years ago, temperatures rose 10C within a decade.


But we just had someone tell us that this Climate Change AGW thing was 10 times faster than non-agw climate variation. Shocked

So now,according to some, about 1C of warming in 150 odd years is now faster than 10C in 10 years? Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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lee
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Re: Climate change: The Earth is in a death spiral
Reply #3 - May 7th, 2019 at 7:16pm
 
But perhaps it is true.

Quote:
A new update issued by watchdog groups on climate change indicated this afternoon that we only have 12 seconds left until climate change destroys the planet.

We previously thought we had just 12 years, then 10 years, but the latest update indicates that we have well under a minute.

"The earth will be totally destroyed in the next, oh, 12 seconds," said Beto O'Rourke at a rally. "If you don't give the government a bunch of money and power, it will happen. Trust me."

"So hand over the cash, guys," he said. "Like, now. I'm super serious."

This tragic development means that humanity won't have time to correct climate change, and our writers probably won't even have time to finish thi   


https://babylonbee.com/news/update-we-now-have-only-12-seconds-left-until-climat...
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Re: Climate change: The Earth is in a death spiral
Reply #4 - May 16th, 2019 at 5:11pm
 
lee wrote on May 7th, 2019 at 6:46pm:
Laugh till you cry wrote on May 7th, 2019 at 5:47pm:
A young woman called Lizia Woolf stepped forward. She hadn’t spoken before, but the passion, grief and fury of her response was utterly compelling. “What is it that you are asking me as a 20-year-old to face and to accept about my future and my life? … This is an emergency. We are facing extinction. When you ask questions like that, what is it you want me to feel?” We had no answer.



Did she give a time frame on this extinction? What was the source? Vanity Fair? Gamers Monthly? Ocasio-Cortez? Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

Laugh till you cry wrote on May 7th, 2019 at 5:47pm:
For example, when Arctic sea ice melts beyond a certain point, the positive feedbacks this triggers (such as darker water absorbing more heat, melting permafrost releasing methane, shifts in the polar vortex) could render runaway climate breakdown unstoppable.


or not. Wink

Laugh till you cry wrote on May 7th, 2019 at 5:47pm:
When the Younger Dryas period ended 11,600 years ago, temperatures rose 10C within a decade.


But we just had someone tell us that this Climate Change AGW thing was 10 times faster than non-agw climate variation. Shocked

So now,according to some, about 1C of warming in 150 odd years is now faster than 10C in 10 years? Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin


Sigh. The ten degree warming event was geographically limited(greenland and some parts of europe) Other parts of the world recorded large temperature drops at the same time. That's why you can't point at a geographically isolated event and draw conclusions about GLOBAL temperatures. Apples with Apples please. The global temperatures have never increased at anything like the speed we are currently observing. How many times do I have to explain this to you?

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lee
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Re: Climate change: The Earth is in a death spiral
Reply #5 - May 16th, 2019 at 5:16pm
 
Pho Huc wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 5:11pm:
Sigh. The ten degree warming event was geographically limited(greenland and some parts of europe) Other parts of the world recorded large temperature drops at the same time. That's why you can't point at a geographically isolated event and draw conclusions about GLOBAL temperatures. Apples with Apples please. The global temperatures have never increased at anything like the speed we are currently observing. How many times do I have to explain this to you?


Maybe when you can explain gloal temperatures back ore than 1950.
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Re: Climate change: The Earth is in a death spiral
Reply #6 - May 16th, 2019 at 7:14pm
 
Despite hundreds of billions of dollars of expenditure during the past few decades, it still has not been shown that human emissions of carbon dioxide drive ­global warming. Yet wind and solar industrial complexes pepper the landscape allegedly to reduce carbon dioxide emissions.

They run on subsidies, not the wind or the sun. Wind and solar are transfering money from the poor to the rich, not saving the environment. These subsidies, paid by the long-suffering consumer and employer, add to emissions because coal-fired elec­tricity needs to be on standby for when there is no wind or sunshine.

The amount of energy used to construct solar and wind facilities is greater than they produce in their working lives. The amount of carbon dioxide released during construction and maintenance is far more than is saved. Renew­ables such as wind turbines are environmentally disastrous because they pollute a huge land area, slice and dice birds and bats, kill insects that are bird food, create health problems for humans who live within kilometres of them, leave toxins around the turbine site and despoil the landscape.

Union superannuation funds have invested massively in renewable energy. Labor’s promise of 50 per cent renewables will cost electricity consumers hundreds of billions but will benefit the unions.

As soon as renewables were introduced into the grid, electric­ity prices increased and delivery became unreliable. Increased elec­tric­ity costs have created unemployment, and many pensioners and the poor cannot afford electricity. An increase in renewables will make matters worse.

Does Shorten’s energy policy consider those who lose jobs and have the power cut off in his race to achieve 50 per cent renewables to fill the pockets of Labor union mates? And what about the scams siphoning off tens of billions that slosh around the world as carbon credits, carbon trading and renewable energy certificates? Rather than take this money from the poor via higher electricity prices, it would be better spent at home.

To smugly claim that valid questions about energy costs are dumb or deceitful is a loud warning bell. Shorten refuses to tell us how he will spend our money or to give any detail on energy ­systems that are proven failures. It is our money and, if he will not give us the financial details, we should be very scared of his shiftiness. I have never written a blank cheque for a used car. Why should I now?

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/the-truth-of-climate-change-is-revea...
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Re: Climate change: The Earth is in a death spiral
Reply #7 - May 17th, 2019 at 7:30am
 
Frank wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 7:14pm:
Despite hundreds of billions of dollars of expenditure during the past few decades, it still has not been shown that human emissions of carbon dioxide drive ­global warming. Yet wind and solar industrial complexes pepper the landscape allegedly to reduce carbon dioxide emissions.

They run on subsidies, not the wind or the sun. Wind and solar are transfering money from the poor to the rich, not saving the environment. These subsidies, paid by the long-suffering consumer and employer, add to emissions because coal-fired elec­tricity needs to be on standby for when there is no wind or sunshine.

The amount of energy used to construct solar and wind facilities is greater than they produce in their working lives. The amount of carbon dioxide released during construction and maintenance is far more than is saved. Renew­ables such as wind turbines are environmentally disastrous because they pollute a huge land area, slice and dice birds and bats, kill insects that are bird food, create health problems for humans who live within kilometres of them, leave toxins around the turbine site and despoil the landscape.

Union superannuation funds have invested massively in renewable energy. Labor’s promise of 50 per cent renewables will cost electricity consumers hundreds of billions but will benefit the unions.

As soon as renewables were introduced into the grid, electric­ity prices increased and delivery became unreliable. Increased elec­tric­ity costs have created unemployment, and many pensioners and the poor cannot afford electricity. An increase in renewables will make matters worse.

Does Shorten’s energy policy consider those who lose jobs and have the power cut off in his race to achieve 50 per cent renewables to fill the pockets of Labor union mates? And what about the scams siphoning off tens of billions that slosh around the world as carbon credits, carbon trading and renewable energy certificates? Rather than take this money from the poor via higher electricity prices, it would be better spent at home.

To smugly claim that valid questions about energy costs are dumb or deceitful is a loud warning bell. Shorten refuses to tell us how he will spend our money or to give any detail on energy ­systems that are proven failures. It is our money and, if he will not give us the financial details, we should be very scared of his shiftiness. I have never written a blank cheque for a used car. Why should I now?

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/the-truth-of-climate-change-is-revea...

just thinking of weather or not carbon is changing the climate ignores the biggest problem of Fossil Fuels and that is they poison us and where we live... renewable energy definitely stops fossil fuels from being burnt and their poisons being put in the air and land.

If you need proof just look at the air quality in any big city...... Wink
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Re: Climate change: The Earth is in a death spiral
Reply #8 - May 17th, 2019 at 12:29pm
 
DonDeeHippy wrote on May 17th, 2019 at 7:30am:
renewable energy definitely stops fossil fuels from being burnt and their poisons being put in the air and land.


So they don't burn fossil fuels when the sun don't shine and the wind don't blow?

You mean they don't run those generators as backup even when the sun do shine and the wind do blow?
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Re: Climate change: The Earth is in a death spiral
Reply #9 - May 17th, 2019 at 1:29pm
 
lee wrote on May 17th, 2019 at 12:29pm:
DonDeeHippy wrote on May 17th, 2019 at 7:30am:
renewable energy definitely stops fossil fuels from being burnt and their poisons being put in the air and land.


So they don't burn fossil fuels when the sun don't shine and the wind don't blow?

You mean they don't run those generators as backup even when the sun do shine and the wind do blow?


lee evidently hasn't heard of batteries. lee has earned another shilling fee from his masters.
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Re: Climate change: The Earth is in a death spiral
Reply #10 - May 17th, 2019 at 1:40pm
 
Don't worry people.

Thorium power will be here soon and will
be a revolution.
We may have so much cheap energy that we
can reverse any climate change.
At least we can stop burning stinking coal.
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Re: Climate change: The Earth is in a death spiral
Reply #11 - May 17th, 2019 at 1:47pm
 
Laugh till you cry wrote on May 17th, 2019 at 1:29pm:
lee evidently hasn't heard of batteries.


You mean like that SA battery that in case of catastrophic collapse would power SA for about 3 minutes? Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Re: Climate change: The Earth is in a death spiral
Reply #12 - May 17th, 2019 at 7:32pm
 
Laugh till you cry wrote on May 17th, 2019 at 1:29pm:
lee wrote on May 17th, 2019 at 12:29pm:
DonDeeHippy wrote on May 17th, 2019 at 7:30am:
renewable energy definitely stops fossil fuels from being burnt and their poisons being put in the air and land.


So they don't burn fossil fuels when the sun don't shine and the wind don't blow?

You mean they don't run those generators as backup even when the sun do shine and the wind do blow?


lee evidently hasn't heard of batteries. lee has earned another shilling fee from his masters.

How much energy does it take to make batteries and where does that energy come from?


In any case, CO2 is the gas that made life possible on Earth and is the gas, with oxygen and hydrogen, that maintains life on Earth.  No plant life without CO2.  The 'war' on CoE to is like the war on air and water.  Idiotic.


In the 70s it was all about global cooling. Now it's global warming and then simply climate change - whatever happens is 'bad'.  And its the eyewash from the  the people who want to change EVERYTHING about human societies - as long us the one dynamic thing in the world can be arrested and kept is aspic.  You see and hear someone utter the words 'climate action' you see and hear a complete idiot. An heir to the various failed 'progressive' hurrah henries over the last 200 years.i
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Re: Climate change: The Earth is in a death spiral
Reply #13 - May 18th, 2019 at 6:41am
 
Frank wrote on May 17th, 2019 at 7:32pm:
Laugh till you cry wrote on May 17th, 2019 at 1:29pm:
lee wrote on May 17th, 2019 at 12:29pm:
DonDeeHippy wrote on May 17th, 2019 at 7:30am:
renewable energy definitely stops fossil fuels from being burnt and their poisons being put in the air and land.


So they don't burn fossil fuels when the sun don't shine and the wind don't blow?

You mean they don't run those generators as backup even when the sun do shine and the wind do blow?


lee evidently hasn't heard of batteries. lee has earned another shilling fee from his masters.

How much energy does it take to make batteries and where does that energy come from?


In any case, CO2 is the gas that made life possible on Earth and is the gas, with oxygen and hydrogen, that maintains life on Earth.  No plant life without CO2.  The 'war' on CoE to is like the war on air and water.  Idiotic.


In the 70s it was all about global cooling. Now it's global warming and then simply climate change - whatever happens is 'bad'.  And its the eyewash from the  the people who want to change EVERYTHING about human societies - as long us the one dynamic thing in the world can be arrested and kept is aspic.  You see and hear someone utter the words 'climate action' you see and hear a complete idiot. An heir to the various failed 'progressive' hurrah henries over the last 200 years


Well more and more of the energy for making batteries is from renewable power... but is you think CO2 is a good thing what does it matter ?
What about all the other toxins that come from burning fossil fuels, plus the left overs like ash.... fair enough CO2 might be good but you cant ignore the other poisons . Or is smog, black lung ,Asthma just good for us as well  Wink
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Re: Climate change: The Earth is in a death spiral
Reply #14 - May 18th, 2019 at 12:58pm
 
DonDeeHippy wrote on May 18th, 2019 at 6:41am:
Well more and more of the energy for making batteries is from renewable power...


You mean like refining cobalt, lithium. the plastic case? Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 18th, 2019 at 6:41am:
What about all the other toxins that come from burning fossil fuels, plus the left overs like ash.


You mean the ash they use in making aerated concrete? Wink

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 18th, 2019 at 6:41am:
Or is smog, black lung ,Asthma just good for us as well



You do realise that people are bipedal. They can move?

They have free will. They can choose not to work in mines.
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