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The right to vote (Read 6754 times)
Bias_2012
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Re: The right to vote
Reply #15 - May 9th, 2019 at 12:05am
 
Jasin wrote on May 8th, 2019 at 11:52pm:
It's just a 'Sock' Political system here. Nothing more.



And it's a corrupt political system
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Jasin
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Re: The right to vote
Reply #16 - May 9th, 2019 at 12:06am
 
That's right.
USA Politics is a 'Privatised' venture. They have to go out and 'earn' their votes.
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Bias_2012
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Re: The right to vote
Reply #17 - May 9th, 2019 at 12:40am
 
In the US, citizens have a true "right" to vote, they can vote if they want to, and their governments have no laws saying it's mandatory to do so

Yet the United States is still strong, the strongest in the world and likely to remain that way
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The_Barnacle
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Re: The right to vote
Reply #18 - May 9th, 2019 at 9:21pm
 
Dnarever wrote on May 8th, 2019 at 10:46pm:
Everyone voting is one of the reasons that we have about the best system there is.



Agreed.
Compulsory voting gives the winner a clear and unambiguous mandate.
The problem with voluntary voting in elections, especially close ones, is that the loser will always claim that they were cheated. Think of the Brexit referendum.
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The Right Wing only believe in free speech when they agree with what is being said.
 
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Re: The right to vote
Reply #19 - May 9th, 2019 at 9:23pm
 
Jasin wrote on May 9th, 2019 at 12:06am:
That's right.
USA Politics is a 'Privatised' venture. They have to go out and 'earn' their votes.


Yes but the Russians help a lot.
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Dnarever
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Re: The right to vote
Reply #20 - May 9th, 2019 at 10:10pm
 
Bias_2012 wrote on May 9th, 2019 at 12:40am:
In the US, citizens have a true "right" to vote, they can vote if they want to, and their governments have no laws saying it's mandatory to do so

Yet the United States is still strong, the strongest in the world and likely to remain that way   


vote, they can vote if they want to Unless they come from a poor area with voting machines that don't count the votes.

Their enrolment system is complex and difficult to get through.

One of the lowest voter turn outs in the developed world.

Americans vote on a Tuesday - many working people can not vote.

Over 70% of the people who are delayed in registering are African American.

Deliberate reduction of voting locations in some areas.

High number of voters removed from rolls in some areas.

Lost registration applications

Registration system hacking.

Voter intimidation

First voter rules breach the US constitution. (Law suite)

People send incorrect vote date and incorrect voting locations.

Computer error caused 80,000 voters registration to fail.


https://www.brennancenter.org/blog/voting-problems-2018

This is not the system to emulate - it is probably the worst in the developed world.
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The_Barnacle
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Re: The right to vote
Reply #21 - May 9th, 2019 at 10:25pm
 
Bias_2012 wrote on May 6th, 2019 at 6:42pm:
Is voting a human right?


I'm guessing you put this in philosophy because you wanted to concentrate more on the ethics rather than the fact that compulsory voting is a far superior system.

When you live in a society you have certain responsibilities.
These include, obeying the laws, jury duty, having your children educated and paying taxes
In Australia another of those responsibilities is voting at elections.
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Bias_2012
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Re: The right to vote
Reply #22 - May 10th, 2019 at 12:59pm
 
The_Barnacle wrote on May 9th, 2019 at 10:25pm:
I'm guessing you put this in philosophy because you wanted to concentrate more on the ethics



That's correct

Punishment should not apply to anyone who has not done anything

Punishment should only apply to someone who has done something

I'm using the terms "not done anything" and "has done something" only in their philosophical sense


The philosophy is that if you don't do anything, you are not infringing on others rights, therefore you should not receive any punishment

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Bias_2012
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Re: The right to vote
Reply #23 - May 10th, 2019 at 1:52pm
 
The_Barnacle wrote on May 9th, 2019 at 9:21pm:
Compulsory voting gives the winner a clear and unambiguous mandate.



The winner gets $22 million from the taxpayers for coming first - a monetary gain for a political party. They're not only in it for power, they're in it for financial gain

Also, voters who's votes don't elect the person they wanted from another party, miss out but their tax dollars still help the winning party with that $22 million

What that means is, that hundreds of thousands of voters, who miss out, are helping to finance the parties that do win seats - where's the ethical principle in that fraud?

It gets worse, votes that don't elect a candidate nor are used in the preferences count, lose 100% of their value and are discarded, in the trash ...

If it could get any worse, it does. Those voters who missed out then have real dollars stolen from them by the AEC for distribution to other parties who happen to get more votes

The losers pay the winners - great democracy we have!
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Re: The right to vote
Reply #24 - May 11th, 2019 at 11:28am
 
Bias_2012 wrote on May 10th, 2019 at 12:59pm:
The_Barnacle wrote on May 9th, 2019 at 10:25pm:
I'm guessing you put this in philosophy because you wanted to concentrate more on the ethics



That's correct

Punishment should not apply to anyone who has not done anything

Punishment should only apply to someone who has done something

I'm using the terms "not done anything" and "has done something" only in their philosophical sense


The philosophy is that if you don't do anything, you are not infringing on others rights, therefore you should not receive any punishment



Using that philosophy, if you refuse to do jury duty, if you refuse to send your children to school, if you refuse to pay taxes, if you don't report a paedophile, if you don't render assistance after a car accident, all of these things shouldn't  be punishable?

In reality, living in a society has many benefits, but also has some responsibilities.
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Bias_2012
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Re: The right to vote
Reply #25 - May 11th, 2019 at 2:31pm
 
The_Barnacle wrote on May 11th, 2019 at 11:28am:
Bias_2012 wrote on May 10th, 2019 at 12:59pm:
The_Barnacle wrote on May 9th, 2019 at 10:25pm:
I'm guessing you put this in philosophy because you wanted to concentrate more on the ethics



That's correct

Punishment should not apply to anyone who has not done anything

Punishment should only apply to someone who has done something

I'm using the terms "not done anything" and "has done something" only in their philosophical sense


The philosophy is that if you don't do anything, you are not infringing on others rights, therefore you should not receive any punishment



Using that philosophy, if you refuse to do jury duty, if you refuse to send your children to school, if you refuse to pay taxes, if you don't report a paedophile, if you don't render assistance after a car accident, all of these things shouldn't  be punishable?

In reality, living in a society has many benefits, but also has some responsibilities.


Yes they should be punishable, all except jury duty and sending your children to school, they should be voluntary

But you can start separate threads about those if you like. This thread is about whether a gun should be held to your head to get you to vote, and whether two political parties (the ALP and the Coalition) have the right to dictate to other parties and the electorate

They actually don't have a right to dictate. That was Hitler's job

When the ALP and the Coalition dictate to the electorate, they are infringing on the rights of the electorate, in which case it's the ALP and the Coalition who should be punished, they are the ones suppressing a basic freedom, the freedom to vote, and free to vote without being under duress

With the ALP and the Coalition making it compulsory for people to vote means they are controlling that part of the democratic process, which in turn means they are shifting the power of control, from the people to the ALP and the Coalition, their own parties. Who do they think they are?

Australia is one of a small minority of countries dictating to the electorate and applying punishment in the voting process. The majority of free nations don't think it's such a good idea, and rightly so 


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The_Barnacle
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Re: The right to vote
Reply #26 - May 12th, 2019 at 12:12pm
 

You arn't making a very good case Bias_2012.
You have already backed away from your "Punishment should not apply to anyone who has not done anything" statement.
The rest of your posts are just hyperbole and strawmen.

No one is holding a gun to anyone's head. You risk a small fine if you don't get your name crossed off the electoral roll on voting day.
You are free to vote for whom ever you please
You can vote informally if you please.
Stating other countries don't have it is simply argumentum ad populum

You are obviously passionate about this issue but you have failed to provide any decent arguments
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John Smith
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Re: The right to vote
Reply #27 - May 12th, 2019 at 12:15pm
 
why is it so hard for some to just turn up and vote? Seriously, facebook and youtube can do without you for 15 mins
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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
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Bias_2012
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Re: The right to vote
Reply #28 - May 12th, 2019 at 11:51pm
 
The_Barnacle wrote on May 12th, 2019 at 12:12pm:
You arn't making a very good case Bias_2012.
You have already backed away from your "Punishment should not apply to anyone who has not done anything" statement.
The rest of your posts are just hyperbole and strawmen.

No one is holding a gun to anyone's head. You risk a small fine if you don't get your name crossed off the electoral roll on voting day.
You are free to vote for whom ever you please
You can vote informally if you please.
Stating other countries don't have it is simply argumentum ad populum

You are obviously passionate about this issue but you have failed to provide any decent arguments



The argument is socialist authoritarianism versus ethical individual freedom within society

Socialist authoritarianism, if continued, leads to an obvious conclusion, and both major parties are leading us there. It's leading us to a societal outcome very similar to China, strict social order with a capitalist economy. The only difference being, while China has one authoritarian party, we would have two ruling authoritarian parties, the socialist ALP and the socialist Coalition

We already have a society, the populace living in Australia. Why turn it into a socialist authoritarian society?

   
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Re: The right to vote
Reply #29 - May 13th, 2019 at 12:29am
 
John Smith wrote on May 12th, 2019 at 12:15pm:
why is it so hard for some to just turn up and vote? Seriously, facebook and youtube can do without you for 15 mins


It's taking a while to get through to you. There's no easy way for us in our village to vote, it can take a half a day or more by the time we get back, traveling on what must be the worst roads in Australia ... and that's if heavy rain doesn't flood the causeway on the only road out of the village, usually it does flood. Or hit a roo which jumps out in front of the car, even going slow, every day roos get hit

Postal voting can take up to three weeks, the mail contractor doesn't deliver every day, and often delivers mail to wrong addresses. I sometimes get other peoples rego and greenslip papers. There is no letter pick-up, if I want to post a letter, a 92k round trip awaits me

You don't know much about the bush, do you?




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