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The British were lucky to win the Battle of Britain (Read 2032 times)
Bobby.
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The British were lucky to win the Battle of Britain
May 5th, 2019 at 5:26am
 
In my opinion -

The British were lucky to "win" - but they didn't really -
Hitler flattened London in the Blitz -
57 consecutive nights of bombing.
The British didn't have enough fighter planes and pilots.
If they could have met the Germans with 1000s of fighter planes
instead of 100s they could have slaughtered them in one day.
Why weren't the Yanks making Spitfires in 1939 under license
to help build up the defenses for Britain?
Hitler's huge air force should never have gone unmatched as
it did to allow him to invade all of Europe.



3 Hours That Saved Britain (Battle of Britain Documentary)
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Bobby.
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Re: The British were lucky to win the Battle of Britain
Reply #1 - May 5th, 2019 at 6:40am
 
Look at how the Yanks tooled up with
mass production later in the war:



BUILDING THE B-24 BOMBER DURING WWII " STORY OF WILLOW RUN " 74182
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Re: The British were lucky to win the Battle of Britain
Reply #2 - May 5th, 2019 at 8:59am
 
My Mum (Still alive aged 99) survived the Blitz.

She was born in Fulham London.

She was one of the two typists working for Churchill during the last period of the war.

She reckons the even more scary bit about the war was when the V-1 (Doodlebugs) were used.

The worst part was when the engine sound cut out, because then they knew an explosion was about to happen.  Sad

She gave birth to my half-brother during an air-raid when she was taken down into one of the Tube stations.

An amazing life.  Cool

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Bobby.
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Re: The British were lucky to win the Battle of Britain
Reply #3 - May 5th, 2019 at 11:29am
 

Fuzzball wrote on May 5th, 2019 at 7:50am:
Blobby.......you're a grade 'A' idiot who knows sweet F/A about The Battle of Britain or the Blitz......you're pathetic.



I consider myself to be an expert on WW2.
Brian is the new mod and he states

"Personal attacks however will not be tolerated."

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Re: The British were lucky to win the Battle of Britain
Reply #4 - May 5th, 2019 at 11:38am
 
Bobby. wrote on May 5th, 2019 at 11:29am:
Fuzzball wrote on May 5th, 2019 at 7:50am:
Blobby.......you're a grade 'A' idiot who knows sweet F/A about The Battle of Britain or the Blitz......you're pathetic.



I consider myself to be an expert on WW2.
Brian is the new mod and he states

"Personal attacks however will not be tolerated."



Evidently, bad grammar will be tolerated. However, whatever, whenever, and wherever.
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Re: The British were lucky to win the Battle of Britain
Reply #5 - May 5th, 2019 at 11:44am
 
Fuzzball wrote on May 5th, 2019 at 11:37am:
Bobby. wrote on May 5th, 2019 at 11:29am:
Fuzzball wrote on May 5th, 2019 at 7:50am:
Blobby.......you're a grade 'A' idiot who knows sweet F/A about The Battle of Britain or the Blitz......you're pathetic.



I consider myself to be an expert on WW2.
Brian is the new mod and he states

"Personal attacks however will not be tolerated."



You're 'an expert' on being an idiot.





The rules:


http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1556977154


Brian,
Quote:
Personal attacks however will not be tolerated.

Attacks against groups on the basis of religion/sexuality/"race"/ethnicity will not be tolerated.

If I delete a post, I will inform the poster of the reasons why it was deleted.  They will be allowed to appeal any such deletion.  If they make a good enough case, their post will be recalled from the deletion bin.

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Gordon
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Re: The British were lucky to win the Battle of Britain
Reply #6 - May 5th, 2019 at 1:17pm
 
Not taking anything away from the Allied airmen, but what won the battle was German switching their attention to bombing the cities and not the airfields, which gave the fighter squadrons a chance to regroup, and of course, radar.
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Bobby.
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Re: The British were lucky to win the Battle of Britain
Reply #7 - May 5th, 2019 at 1:30pm
 
Gordon wrote on May 5th, 2019 at 1:17pm:
Not taking anything away from the Allied airmen, but what won the battle was German switching their attention to bombing the cities and not the airfields, which gave the fighter squadrons a chance to regroup, and of course, radar.



That's true - just a few more days of bombing the
English airfields might have knocked out the RAF.
Hitler was an idiot.

Also - bombing London for 57 nights in a row
gave the POMs all the excuses they needed to
do the same to Germany later on.
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Re: The British were lucky to win the Battle of Britain
Reply #8 - May 5th, 2019 at 1:32pm
 
The world was very lucky that Hitler took on the Russians, without that massive mistake, we could all be speaking German now.  Wink
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Re: The British were lucky to win the Battle of Britain
Reply #9 - May 5th, 2019 at 1:42pm
 
Captain Nemo wrote on May 5th, 2019 at 1:32pm:
The world was very lucky that Hitler took on the Russians,
without that massive mistake, we could all be speaking German now.  Wink


Hitler was convinced that the Russians would eventually attack Germany.
The Russians had forward based air fields close to the borders
and they had huge numbers of artillery & tanks
not far behind them -
with an enormous army.
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Re: The British were lucky to win the Battle of Britain
Reply #10 - May 5th, 2019 at 1:48pm
 
We have a lot to thank the Russians for.  Cool
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Re: The British were lucky to win the Battle of Britain
Reply #11 - May 5th, 2019 at 1:51pm
 
Captain Nemo wrote on May 5th, 2019 at 1:48pm:
We have a lot to thank the Russians for.  Cool



The Russians were prepared to lose over 25 million citizens to defeat Hitler.
No other country paid such a price.
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Re: The British were lucky to win the Battle of Britain
Reply #12 - May 5th, 2019 at 2:01pm
 
That's right.
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Bobby.
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Re: The British were lucky to win the Battle of Britain
Reply #13 - May 5th, 2019 at 3:57pm
 
Bobby. wrote on May 5th, 2019 at 1:51pm:
Captain Nemo wrote on May 5th, 2019 at 1:48pm:
We have a lot to thank the Russians for.  Cool



The Russians were prepared to lose over 25 million citizens to defeat Hitler.
No other country paid such a price.




Captain Nemo wrote on May 5th, 2019 at 2:01pm:
That's right.



I'm always right.
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Re: The British were lucky to win the Battle of Britai
Reply #14 - May 5th, 2019 at 4:02pm
 
British RADAR contributed for a great part to the winning of The Battle of Britain, and of course British, Polish, Canadian and Australian pilots who were waiting for them (the Krauts).



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Re: The British were lucky to win the Battle of Britain
Reply #15 - May 5th, 2019 at 4:12pm
 
And where the Russians were concerned, it was the Russian WINTER which destroyed the Germans on the eastern front, together with the lunatic who ignored the advice of his generals.
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Re: The British were lucky to win the Battle of Britain
Reply #16 - May 5th, 2019 at 4:18pm
 
Fuzzball wrote on May 5th, 2019 at 4:02pm:
British RADAR contributed for a great part to the winning of The Battle of Britain, and of course British, Polish, Canadian and Australian pilots who were waiting for them (the Krauts).

You blobby know cluck all......




Is that all you know?
Everyone knows that.
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Re: The British were lucky to win the Battle of Britain
Reply #17 - May 5th, 2019 at 4:19pm
 
Bobby. wrote on May 5th, 2019 at 4:18pm:
Fuzzball wrote on May 5th, 2019 at 4:02pm:
British RADAR contributed for a great part to the winning of The Battle of Britain, and of course British, Polish, Canadian and Australian pilots who were waiting for them (the Krauts).

You blobby know cluck all......




Is that all you know?
Everyone knows that.



I know hell of a lot more that you, you old fool......and it's funny how you made NO mention of that........you're full of it......

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Re: The British were lucky to win the Battle of Britain
Reply #18 - May 5th, 2019 at 4:24pm
 
Fuzzball wrote on May 5th, 2019 at 4:19pm:
Bobby. wrote on May 5th, 2019 at 4:18pm:
Fuzzball wrote on May 5th, 2019 at 4:02pm:
British RADAR contributed for a great part to the winning of The Battle of Britain, and of course British, Polish, Canadian and Australian pilots who were waiting for them (the Krauts).

You blobby know cluck all......




Is that all you know?
Everyone knows that.



I know hell of a lot more that you, you old fool......and it's funny how you made NO mention of that........you're full of it......




Tell us something we don't know.
We all know about radar,
we know about enigma etc.

I was trying to put a different picture on it -
looking from outside the box and
saying that it should never have happened.
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Re: The British were lucky to win the Battle of Britain
Reply #19 - May 5th, 2019 at 4:28pm
 
Just goes to show what a fool you are blobby, the 'Enigma' code machine was to do with U-Boats and Allied Convoys, not The Battle of Britain ....you fkwit....

And for your information, my father was a sergeant pilot during The Battle of Britain............but then I could just be spouting schit like you couldn't I........
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Bobby.
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Re: The British were lucky to win the Battle of Britain
Reply #20 - May 5th, 2019 at 4:35pm
 
Fuzzball wrote on May 5th, 2019 at 4:28pm:
Just goes to show what a fool you are blobby, the 'Enigma' code machine was to do with U-Boats and Allied Convoys, not The Battle of Britain ....you fkwit....

And for your information, my father was a sergeant pilot during The Battle of Britain............but then I could just be spouting schit like you couldn't I........



Wait till Brian turns up and sees all you ad hominem abuse.
By the way - the POMs were cracking the German codes during the battle of Britain.
I expect an apology.


https://www.gchq.gov.uk/information/how-codebreakers-helped-fight-battle-britain

The first major breakthrough in the regular decryption of German traffic during World War II was the reading of Luftwaffe messages from the spring of 1940 onwards.

The Germans used Enigma, as well as other lower-grade encryption systems, and analysts at Bletchley Park and RAF Cheadle were increasingly able throughout the Battle of Britain to give indicators and warnings to Fighter Command to allow it to target its scant resources against the German Air Force.
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Re: The British were lucky to win the Battle of Britain
Reply #21 - May 5th, 2019 at 4:40pm
 
Fuzzball wrote on May 5th, 2019 at 4:39pm:
Bobby. wrote on May 5th, 2019 at 4:35pm:
Fuzzball wrote on May 5th, 2019 at 4:28pm:
Just goes to show what a fool you are blobby, the 'Enigma' code machine was to do with U-Boats and Allied Convoys, not The Battle of Britain ....you fkwit....

And for your information, my father was a sergeant pilot during The Battle of Britain............but then I could just be spouting schit like you couldn't I........



Wait till Brian turns up and sees all you ad hominem abuse.
By the way - the POMs were cracking the German codes during the battle of Britain.
I expect an apology.


https://www.gchq.gov.uk/information/how-codebreakers-helped-fight-battle-britain

The first major breakthrough in the regular decryption of German traffic during World War II was the reading of Luftwaffe messages from the spring of 1940 onwards.

The Germans used Enigma, as well as other lower-grade encryption systems, and analysts at Bletchley Park and RAF Cheadle were increasingly able throughout the Battle of Britain to give indicators and warnings to Fighter Command to allow it to target its scant resources against the German Air Force.


Go suck your thumb you silly old twit......



You are wrong about enigma -

now apologise.
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Re: The British were lucky to win the Battle of Britai
Reply #22 - May 5th, 2019 at 5:11pm
 
Good to see that the thread is back.
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Re: The British were lucky to win the Battle of Britai
Reply #23 - May 5th, 2019 at 5:35pm
 
The British were lucky, however their luck came because they were prepared to sacrifice their land army, the BEF, in Europe rather than sacrifice the defence of their country.  The RAF sent only a light force of fighters and those were Hawker Hurricanes to their advance striking force in France before the Germans invaded.   When it came to the BEF retreating to Dunkirk, they sent only light patrols to protect them.  This mean that their main force of fighters - Spitfires and Hurricanes were available to face the German onslaught.

The Germans were aware of radar but did not attach sufficient importance to it.  They attacked the Chain Home stations which were the radar stations on the first few days of the Battle of Britain and while they damaged several,  the stations had sufficient overlap so they could continue reporting on the German raids and directed the fighters to engage them while repairs were effected.

The Germans greatest mistake was lacking a long range fighter with sufficient range to fight over most of Southern England.  The Bf110 was a failure as a long range fighter.  They would have been much better off with the Fw187 twin engined fighters.  Their Bf109 fighters lacked sufficient range to stay on station and engage the RAF's fighters and protect the Luftwaffe's bombers.  The advantage was all the RAFs.

The Germans were unlucky in that they were fighting over enemy territory.  This mean that an aircraft shot down, was a loss not only of the aircraft but more importantly, the crew to the PoW camps.  The RAF was fighting over home ground and had many aircraft shot down and aircrew were back in the air within days, this meant all they need to do was make sure sufficient fighters were available to them.

The Enigma code breaking effort was important but they weren't breaking sufficient codes, fast enough for it to affect a battle until the invasion of Crete in 1941.  They had to develop and duplicate the Polish Bombes - a mechanical code breaking device the Poles took first to France and then to England.   They weren't really reading German codes properly until early 1943.   Before then, their code breaking was spotty and took time.  By 1945, they were reading the German codes in near real time, thanks to Colossus - the first electronic computer designed by Alan Turing.  Along the way, the capture of various enigma machines helped a great deal as well.

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Re: The British were lucky to win the Battle of Britai
Reply #24 - May 5th, 2019 at 5:52pm
 
Thanks Brian,
here's another video mostly about the Battle of Britain:

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Re: The British were lucky to win the Battle of Britai
Reply #25 - May 5th, 2019 at 6:05pm
 
Fuzzball wrote on May 5th, 2019 at 4:12pm:
And where the Russians were concerned, it was the Russian WINTER which destroyed the Germans on the eastern front, together with the lunatic who ignored the advice of his generals.


True. If the Germans had not invaded the Balkans, they would have sufficient time to capture Moscow.  The result was a four week delay to Barbarossa.  Those four weeks were critical.  Coupled with the decision that ammunition and fuel were more important than Winter clothing for the troops doing the fighting meant that the Germans often literally froze to death.   "Colonel Mud" and "General Winter" were sufficient to delay the German attempt to take Moscow.

There was also a problem with Strategic indecision on the part of the German High Command.  They couldn't make their mind up whether they wanted to attack Moscow or the Caucasus where the Soviet oil was.  The result was a switching of priorities, with a massive movement of troops and vehicles from the north to the south of Russia.

When coupled with Hitler's refusal to allow retreat, it mean many Germans died unnecessarily.  Something we can all be thankful for.


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Re: The British were lucky to win the Battle of Britai
Reply #26 - May 5th, 2019 at 6:22pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on May 5th, 2019 at 6:05pm:
Fuzzball wrote on May 5th, 2019 at 4:12pm:
And where the Russians were concerned, it was the Russian WINTER which destroyed the Germans on the eastern front, together with the lunatic who ignored the advice of his generals.


True. If the Germans had not invaded the Balkans, they would have sufficient time to capture Moscow.  The result was a four week delay to Barbarossa.  Those four weeks were critical.  Coupled with the decision that ammunition and fuel were more important an Winter clothing for the troops doing the fighting meant that the Germans often literally froze to death.   "Colonel Mud" and "General Winter" were sufficient to delay the German attempt to take Moscow.

There was also a problem with Strategic indecision on the part of the German High Command.  They couldn't make their mind up whether they wanted to attack Moscow or the Caucasus where the Soviet oil was.  The result was a switching of priorities, with a massive movement of troops and vehicles from the north to the south of Russia.

When coupled with Hitler's refusal to allow retreat, it mean many Germans died unnecessarily.  Something we can all be thankful for.




But then again - oil was very important.
Hitler's army couldn't move without it.
What really got the Germans was that the Russians moved all their factories out of reach in the Urals.
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Re: The British were lucky to win the Battle of Britai
Reply #27 - May 5th, 2019 at 8:03pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on May 5th, 2019 at 5:35pm:
thanks to Colossus - the first electronic computer designed by Alan Turing.



Was Colossus designed by Alan Turing or Tommy Flowers?
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Re: The British were lucky to win the Battle of Britai
Reply #28 - May 5th, 2019 at 8:05pm
 
The 'Difference' between Germany and Britain winning the 'Who's the Bad Guy' war in Europe was that Britain had some former 'colonies' of its, come and help it. Where as no 'German' colonies or former colonies came and help it.

There is absolutely no other reason besides this as well.
Germany tried to be the 'USA' of Europe.
But it ended up being Britain.
The irony is - that Europe as a whole, is no USA and that's where Britain will find its destiny at the hall of the United Islam/Israel Empire.
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Re: The British were lucky to win the Battle of Britai
Reply #29 - May 5th, 2019 at 8:34pm
 
Bias_2012 wrote on May 5th, 2019 at 8:03pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 5th, 2019 at 5:35pm:
thanks to Colossus - the first electronic computer designed by Alan Turing.


Was Colossus designed by Alan Turing or Tommy Flowers?


Alan Turing produced the theoretical design.  Tommy Flowers, along with Harry Fensom, Allen Coombs, Sid Broadhurst and Bill Chandler built it.


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Re: The British were lucky to win the Battle of Britai
Reply #30 - May 6th, 2019 at 9:00am
 
Brian Ross wrote on May 5th, 2019 at 5:35pm:
The Germans greatest mistake was lacking a long range fighter with sufficient range to fight over most of Southern England.  The Bf110 was a failure as a long range fighter.  They would have been much better off with the Fw187 twin engined fighters.  Their Bf109 fighters lacked sufficient range to stay on station and engage the RAF's fighters and protect the Luftwaffe's bombers.  The advantage was all the RAFs.


The Fw-187 is an interesting plane. I agree it would have been a better fighter than the Me-110, though I'm not sure it would have won the battle for the Luftwaffe. Ultimately you still end up fighting single-seat aircraft, all of which will have a roll-rate advantage just because of the physics of having two engines on the wings instead of one.

On the other hand the RAF could have done with a heavier fighter to intercept German bombers - if the Whirlwind had been developed a little faster it could have had some success, though again I don't think it would have substantially altered the outcome.
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Re: The British were lucky to win the Battle of Britai
Reply #31 - May 6th, 2019 at 5:33pm
 
Stig wrote on May 6th, 2019 at 9:00am:
Brian Ross wrote on May 5th, 2019 at 5:35pm:
The Germans greatest mistake was lacking a long range fighter with sufficient range to fight over most of Southern England.  The Bf110 was a failure as a long range fighter.  They would have been much better off with the Fw187 twin engined fighters.  Their Bf109 fighters lacked sufficient range to stay on station and engage the RAF's fighters and protect the Luftwaffe's bombers.  The advantage was all the RAFs.


The Fw-187 is an interesting plane. I agree it would have been a better fighter than the Me-110, though I'm not sure it would have won the battle for the Luftwaffe. Ultimately you still end up fighting single-seat aircraft, all of which will have a roll-rate advantage just because of the physics of having two engines on the wings instead of one.


The Fw187 was a significantly better fighter than the Bf110.  However, the Luftwaffe favoured Messerschmidt over Tank and so the Bf110 was built in significant numbers.  The Luftwaffe really couldn't get it's head around the idea of a single-seat, twin-engined fighter.   The Fw187 had significantly greater range than the Bf110 and greater manoeuvrability.  It's use would have significantly complicated the RAF's problems.

Quote:
On the other hand the RAF could have done with a heavier fighter to intercept German bombers - if the Whirlwind had been developed a little faster it could have had some success, though again I don't think it would have substantially altered the outcome.


The Whirlwind was hampered by it's engine.  The Peregrine had it's share of problems.  However, the decision was made to go with the Merlin because it was used in more aircraft.  So Rolls Royce didn't have the facilities to perfect two engines and the Peregrine lost out.  I've always wondered why the Whirlwind wasn't adapted to fly with the Merlin.  It would have made quite a difference to it's performance.
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