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Will the LHC destroy the world? (Read 3057 times)
Super Nova
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Re: Will the LHC destroy the world?
Reply #15 - Apr 30th, 2019 at 4:15pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Apr 30th, 2019 at 4:10pm:
Super Nova wrote on Apr 30th, 2019 at 4:00pm:
Bobby. wrote on Apr 30th, 2019 at 3:48pm:
Super Nova wrote on Apr 30th, 2019 at 3:46pm:
Bobby. wrote on Apr 30th, 2019 at 5:55am:
Super Nova,
Quote:
Another concern is that the LHC will produce an exotic (and so far hypothetical) material called strangelets. One possible trait of strangelets is particularly worrisome. Cosmologists theorize that strangelets could possess a powerful gravitational field that might allow them to convert the entire planet into a lifeless hulk.
Scientists at LHC dismiss this concern using multiple counterpoints. First, they point out that strangelets are hypothetical. No one has observed such material in the universe. Second, they say that the electromagnetic field around such material would repel normal matter rather than change it into something else. Third, they say that even if such matter exists, it would be highly unstable and would decay almost instantaneously. Fourth, the scientists say that high-energy cosmic rays should produce such material naturally. Since the Earth is still around, they theorize that strangelets are a non-issue.



Actually - according to the 3 videos I posted strangelets are highly stable.


…. and would decay almost instantaneously.

No threat to us.




No -  stable means it won't decay - that's the problem.
Watch the videos - they are scary.


I watched the video. I suggest you re-watch it and watch what is said near the end.

The LHC doesn't produce anything that doesn't occur continually in the universe. Nothing to be afraid of.



Yes - the first video is the least concerning.
Strangelets do exist inside Neutron Stars.
They are still of concern if one could be made
it would start turning everything it touched into a larger strangelet.




Bobby,

There is nothing to fear and taking snippets out of context is Chicken Little stuff.

Scientists at LHC dismiss this concern using multiple counterpoints. First, they point out that strangelets are hypothetical. No one has observed such material in the universe. Second, they say that the electromagnetic field around such material would repel normal matter rather than change it into something else. Third, they say that even if such matter exists, it would be highly unstable and would decay almost instantaneously. Fourth, the scientists say that high-energy cosmic rays should produce such material naturally. Since the Earth is still around, they theorize that strangelets are a non-issue.
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Super Nova
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Re: Will the LHC destroy the world?
Reply #16 - Apr 30th, 2019 at 4:36pm
 
Also, extra from:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strangelet

Need to wait to see the results of the investigation into neutron stars I guess.

Dangers
If the strange matter hypothesis is correct and a stable negatively-charged strangelet with a surface tension larger than the aforementioned critical value exists, then a larger strangelet would be more stable than a smaller one. One speculation that has resulted from the idea is that a strangelet coming into contact with a lump of ordinary matter could convert the ordinary matter to strange matter.[15][16] This "ice-nine"-like disaster scenario is as follows: one strangelet hits a nucleus, catalyzing its immediate conversion to strange matter. This liberates energy, producing a larger, more stable strangelet, which in turn hits another nucleus, catalyzing its conversion to strange matter. In the end, all the nuclei of all the atoms of Earth are converted, and Earth is reduced to a hot, large lump of strange matter.
This is not a concern for strangelets in cosmic rays because they are produced far from Earth and have had time to decay to their ground state, which is predicted by most models to be positively charged, so they are electrostatically repelled by nuclei, and would rarely merge with them.[17][18] But high-energy collisions could produce negatively charged strangelet states which live long enough to interact with the nuclei of ordinary matter.[19]

The danger of catalyzed conversion by strangelets produced in heavy-ion colliders has received some media attention,[20][21] and concerns of this type were raised[15][22] at the commencement of the RHIC experiment at Brookhaven, which could potentially have created strangelets. A detailed analysis[16] concluded that the RHIC collisions were comparable to ones which naturally occur as cosmic rays traverse the solar system, so we would already have seen such a disaster if it were possible. RHIC has been operating since 2000 without incident. Similar concerns have been raised about the operation of the LHC at CERN[23] but such fears are dismissed as far-fetched by scientists.[23][24][25]

In the case of a neutron star, the conversion scenario seems much more plausible. A neutron star is in a sense a giant nucleus (20 km across), held together by gravity, but it is electrically neutral and so does not electrostatically repel strangelets. If a strangelet hit a neutron star, it could convert a small region of it, and that region would grow to consume the entire star, creating a quark star.[26]

Debate about the strange matter hypothesis

The strange matter hypothesis remains unproven. No direct search for strangelets in cosmic rays or particle accelerators has seen a strangelet (see references in earlier sections). If any of the objects such as neutron stars could be shown to have a surface made of strange matter, this would indicate that strange matter is stable at zero pressure, which would vindicate the strange matter hypothesis. However there is no strong evidence for strange matter surfaces on neutron stars (see below).
Another argument against the hypothesis is that if it were true, all neutron stars should be made of strange matter, and otherwise none should be.[27] Even if there were only a few strange stars initially, violent events such as collisions would soon create many strangelets flying around the universe. Because a single strangelet will convert a neutron star to strange matter, by now all neutron stars would have been converted. This argument is still debated,[28][29][30][31] but if it is correct then showing that one neutron star has a conventional nuclear matter crust would disprove the strange matter hypothesis.
Because of its importance for the strange matter hypothesis, there is an ongoing effort to determine whether the surfaces of neutron stars are made of strange matter or nuclear matter. The evidence currently favors nuclear matter. This comes from the phenomenology of X-ray bursts, which is well explained in terms of a nuclear matter crust,[32] and from measurement of seismic vibrations in magnetars.[33]
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Jasin
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Re: Will the LHC destroy the world?
Reply #17 - Apr 30th, 2019 at 4:45pm
 
See. The LHC is a total waste of time and money.
Nothing else.
Move along people. Nothing to see at the LHC.
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Super Nova
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Re: Will the LHC destroy the world?
Reply #18 - Apr 30th, 2019 at 4:48pm
 
Jasin wrote on Apr 30th, 2019 at 4:45pm:
See. The LHC is a total waste of time and money.
Nothing else.
Move along people. Nothing to see at the LHC.


Truly understanding our universe is important for the future of humanity.

I think we will need to build a bigger one and spend more and more money.
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Bobby.
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Re: Will the LHC destroy the world?
Reply #19 - Apr 30th, 2019 at 8:14pm
 
Super Nova wrote on Apr 30th, 2019 at 4:36pm:
Also, extra from:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strangelet

Need to wait to see the results of the investigation into neutron stars I guess.

Dangers
If the strange matter hypothesis is correct and a stable negatively-charged strangelet with a surface tension larger than the aforementioned critical value exists, then a larger strangelet would be more stable than a smaller one. One speculation that has resulted from the idea is that a strangelet coming into contact with a lump of ordinary matter could convert the ordinary matter to strange matter.[15][16] This "ice-nine"-like disaster scenario is as follows: one strangelet hits a nucleus, catalyzing its immediate conversion to strange matter. This liberates energy, producing a larger, more stable strangelet, which in turn hits another nucleus, catalyzing its conversion to strange matter. In the end, all the nuclei of all the atoms of Earth are converted, and Earth is reduced to a hot, large lump of strange matter.
This is not a concern for strangelets in cosmic rays because they are produced far from Earth and have had time to decay to their ground state, which is predicted by most models to be positively charged, so they are electrostatically repelled by nuclei, and would rarely merge with them.[17][18] But high-energy collisions could produce negatively charged strangelet states which live long enough to interact with the nuclei of ordinary matter.[19]

The danger of catalyzed conversion by strangelets produced in heavy-ion colliders has received some media attention,[20][21] and concerns of this type were raised[15][22] at the commencement of the RHIC experiment at Brookhaven, which could potentially have created strangelets. A detailed analysis[16] concluded that the RHIC collisions were comparable to ones which naturally occur as cosmic rays traverse the solar system, so we would already have seen such a disaster if it were possible. RHIC has been operating since 2000 without incident. Similar concerns have been raised about the operation of the LHC at CERN[23] but such fears are dismissed as far-fetched by scientists.[23][24][25]

In the case of a neutron star, the conversion scenario seems much more plausible. A neutron star is in a sense a giant nucleus (20 km across), held together by gravity, but it is electrically neutral and so does not electrostatically repel strangelets. If a strangelet hit a neutron star, it could convert a small region of it, and that region would grow to consume the entire star, creating a quark star.[26]

Debate about the strange matter hypothesis

The strange matter hypothesis remains unproven. No direct search for strangelets in cosmic rays or particle accelerators has seen a strangelet (see references in earlier sections). If any of the objects such as neutron stars could be shown to have a surface made of strange matter, this would indicate that strange matter is stable at zero pressure, which would vindicate the strange matter hypothesis. However there is no strong evidence for strange matter surfaces on neutron stars (see below).
Another argument against the hypothesis is that if it were true, all neutron stars should be made of strange matter, and otherwise none should be.[27] Even if there were only a few strange stars initially, violent events such as collisions would soon create many strangelets flying around the universe. Because a single strangelet will convert a neutron star to strange matter, by now all neutron stars would have been converted. This argument is still debated,[28][29][30][31] but if it is correct then showing that one neutron star has a conventional nuclear matter crust would disprove the strange matter hypothesis.
Because of its importance for the strange matter hypothesis, there is an ongoing effort to determine whether the surfaces of neutron stars are made of strange matter or nuclear matter. The evidence currently favors nuclear matter. This comes from the phenomenology of X-ray bursts, which is well explained in terms of a nuclear matter crust,[32] and from measurement of seismic vibrations in magnetars.[33]



Thanks Nova,
that's interesting.
I think that give such information that we should not build a larger
particle accelerator.
I hear that the Chinese want to build one 5 times larger than the LHC at CERN.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a25101820/china-lhc-particle-collider-c...
The Chinese institute announced plans to build its own particle accelerator over the next decade, and it’s designed to surpass the LHC in every way. According to the report authored by the institute, the upcoming collider will be over five times more powerful and over 20 miles in diameter.

Also.
https://www.theepochtimes.com/cern-plans-new-particle-accelerator-4-times-larger...

CERN Plans New Particle Accelerator 4 Times Larger Than Current One
By Mimi Nguyen Ly
January 22, 2019 Updated: January 22, 2019

I don't think they should -
it's too dangerous.
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Jasin
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Re: Will the LHC destroy the world?
Reply #20 - Apr 30th, 2019 at 10:11pm
 
Anything made in China doesn't last a year.
They will have to build one every year.
Little people making useless big things.
It will accelerate their breeding program though.
Big population - small DNA variation. Grin
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Bobby.
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Re: Will the LHC destroy the world?
Reply #21 - May 1st, 2019 at 7:45pm
 



Beyond the Higgs: What's Next for the LHC? - with Harry Cliff.


The Royal Institution
Published on Jan 17, 2018
In 2012, the announcement of the Higgs boson made headlines around the world. But what has been going on at the Large Hadron Collider since?  Physicist Harry Cliff will be your guide.

What is the future of the world’s biggest physics experiment? And what intriguing hints of new physics are around the corner?

Harry Cliff is the Science Museum Fellow of Modern Science, which he reckons might be the only job title which begins and ends with 'science'. He spends half his time searching for signs of new physics at LHCb, one of the four big experiments at CERN's Large Hadron Collider. For the other half, he indulges his love of talking about physics at the Science Museum, where he develop exhibitions, events and online content.

This talk was filmed in the Royal Institution on 31 October 2017.
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Bobby.
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Re: Will the LHC destroy the world?
Reply #22 - May 1st, 2019 at 10:53pm
 
When nuclear experiments go wrong:




Demon Core: The Unused Third Atomic Bomb of WW2


Dark Docs
Published on Mar 14, 2019
The desert can hold many secrets. The desert near Los Alamos in New Mexico just after World War 2 held perhaps the biggest secret of them all. Learn more about the Most Dangerous Science Experiment in the World with another Dark Docs presented by Dark5.

May 21st, 1946. A top-secret laboratory. A group of scientists look on as one of their colleagues, a Canadian named Louis Slotin, conducts a demonstration. Slotin hovers over a strange object, which sits on display on a small table in front of the crowd of onlookers. The object looks like a metal sphere, nested inside a more substantial metal hemisphere like an egg in a nest. But this metal device contains a terrifying potential. Why? Because it is nothing less than the exposed core of a nuclear bomb, and the egg at the center is an orb of pure plutonium. Imagine being in that room. You probably would have heard a pin drop, such was the intense atmosphere. Slotin’s demonstration was a risky one. The operation he was performing had an ominous nickname among the group – they dubbed it [quote] “tickling the dragon’s tail.”
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Captain Nemo
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Re: Will the LHC destroy the world?
Reply #23 - May 2nd, 2019 at 9:06am
 
It is extremely unlikely that a "black hole" could be created that got out of containment.

Mind you, the possibility of that happening is not zero, just very close to zero.  Wink
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Re: Will the LHC destroy the world?
Reply #24 - May 2nd, 2019 at 9:11am
 
Captain Nemo wrote on May 2nd, 2019 at 9:06am:
It is extremely unlikely that a "black hole" could be created that got out of containment.

Mind you, the possibility of that happening is not zero, just very close to zero.  Wink

if it does though, will we get "The Flash" for real ??? Cheesy
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Bobby.
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Re: Will the LHC destroy the world?
Reply #25 - May 2nd, 2019 at 6:52pm
 
Captain Nemo wrote on May 2nd, 2019 at 9:06am:
It is extremely unlikely that a "black hole" could be created that got out of containment.

Mind you, the possibility of that happening is not zero, just very close to zero.  Wink



The tiny almost mass less black holes they create
disappear straight away.
It's those stable strangelet particles that work the same way as
a black hole that worry me.
And - they want to make the LHC, 4 times more powerful!
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Re: Will the LHC destroy the world?
Reply #26 - May 3rd, 2019 at 5:21pm
 
Bobby. wrote on May 2nd, 2019 at 6:52pm:
Captain Nemo wrote on May 2nd, 2019 at 9:06am:
It is extremely unlikely that a "black hole" could be created that got out of containment.

Mind you, the possibility of that happening is not zero, just very close to zero.  Wink



The tiny almost mass less black holes they create
disappear straight away.
It's those stable strangelet particles that work the same way as
a black hole that worry me.
And - they want to make the LHC, 4 times more powerful!


Bob , these energy levels are infinitesimal on a cosmic level. they wouldn't tickle a black holes hymen  Cheesy
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Bobby.
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Re: Will the LHC destroy the world?
Reply #27 - May 3rd, 2019 at 8:53pm
 
BigP wrote on May 3rd, 2019 at 5:21pm:
Bobby. wrote on May 2nd, 2019 at 6:52pm:
Captain Nemo wrote on May 2nd, 2019 at 9:06am:
It is extremely unlikely that a "black hole" could be created that got out of containment.

Mind you, the possibility of that happening is not zero, just very close to zero.  Wink



The tiny almost mass less black holes they create
disappear straight away.
It's those stable strangelet particles that work the same way as
a black hole that worry me.
And - they want to make the LHC, 4 times more powerful!


Bob , these energy levels are infinitesimal on a cosmic level. they wouldn't tickle a black holes hymen  Cheesy



But they don't appear on Earth except for the occasional
high energy cosmic rays in the form of protons colliding
with our atmosphere.
Yes - some of them have been recorded with 7 times the energy of the LHC.


Did you watch the video above?

Demon Core: The Unused Third Atomic Bomb of WW2

Scientists were playing around with an atomic bomb core of plutonium.
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Super Nova
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Re: Will the LHC destroy the world?
Reply #28 - May 3rd, 2019 at 9:14pm
 
Bobby. wrote on May 3rd, 2019 at 8:53pm:
BigP wrote on May 3rd, 2019 at 5:21pm:
Bobby. wrote on May 2nd, 2019 at 6:52pm:
Captain Nemo wrote on May 2nd, 2019 at 9:06am:
It is extremely unlikely that a "black hole" could be created that got out of containment.

Mind you, the possibility of that happening is not zero, just very close to zero.  Wink



The tiny almost mass less black holes they create
disappear straight away.
It's those stable strangelet particles that work the same way as
a black hole that worry me.
And - they want to make the LHC, 4 times more powerful!


Bob , these energy levels are infinitesimal on a cosmic level. they wouldn't tickle a black holes hymen  Cheesy



But they don't appear on Earth except for the occasional
high energy cosmic rays in the form of protons colliding
with our atmosphere.
Yes - some of them have been recorded with 7 times the energy of the LHC.


Did you watch the video above?

Demon Core: The Unused Third Atomic Bomb of WW2

Scientists were playing around with an atomic bomb core of plutonium.


If you stand around watching a chain reaction that spews high energy particles at you... you will die. There is no "demon" about it. It was just a case of "shite happened".
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Bobby.
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Re: Will the LHC destroy the world?
Reply #29 - May 3rd, 2019 at 9:16pm
 
Super Nova wrote on May 3rd, 2019 at 9:14pm:
Bobby. wrote on May 3rd, 2019 at 8:53pm:
BigP wrote on May 3rd, 2019 at 5:21pm:
Bobby. wrote on May 2nd, 2019 at 6:52pm:
Captain Nemo wrote on May 2nd, 2019 at 9:06am:
It is extremely unlikely that a "black hole" could be created that got out of containment.

Mind you, the possibility of that happening is not zero, just very close to zero.  Wink



The tiny almost mass less black holes they create
disappear straight away.
It's those stable strangelet particles that work the same way as
a black hole that worry me.
And - they want to make the LHC, 4 times more powerful!


Bob , these energy levels are infinitesimal on a cosmic level. they wouldn't tickle a black holes hymen  Cheesy



But they don't appear on Earth except for the occasional
high energy cosmic rays in the form of protons colliding
with our atmosphere.
Yes - some of them have been recorded with 7 times the energy of the LHC.


Did you watch the video above?

Demon Core: The Unused Third Atomic Bomb of WW2

Scientists were playing around with an atomic bomb core of plutonium.


If you stand around watching a chain reaction that spews high energy particles at you... you will die. There is no "demon" about it. It was just a case of "shite happened".



It goes to show that scientists can be wrong about the dangers of
the nuclear physics they play with.
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