Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5
Send Topic Print
Oh look! Hizb ut-Tahrir, telling it like it is ! (Read 6215 times)
Yadda
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 20901
A cat with a view
Re: Oh look! Hizb ut-Tahrir, telling it like it is !
Reply #15 - May 3rd, 2019 at 3:25pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on May 3rd, 2019 at 12:02pm:
Here you go FD, the full quote:

freediver wrote on Feb 22nd, 2019 at 9:49am:
You seem completely oblivious to what is going on here Gandalf. Islamic extremists in Indonesia can say whatever they want. People who offer progressive interpretations of Islam get put in jail, very publicly. The government is transparently steering debate about Islam in Indonesia towards the extreme, and you are cheering them on.


The reality:

- Indonesia extremists are routinely charged and gaoled for what they say about Islam - under the charge of "hate speech".
- Islamist groups including Hizbut tahrir are banned for what they say about Islam
- The government therefore is transparently steering debate about Islam in Indonesia away from the extreme




"The government therefore is transparently steering debate about Islam in Indonesia away from the extreme"


How can it be ??!!


Every form [flavour] of ISLAM, has its basis and doctrinal foundation, in the life and sayings of Mohammed [the war lord], in the words of the Koran, and the commands from the mouth of Allah;
to hate disbelievers, and to fight and to kill disbelievers who reject ISLAM.

There is no 'moderate' ISLAM.


And describing some moslems as followers of an 'extreme ISLAM', because their actions are cruel and violent towards non-moslems, is simply deceitful.

Every 'flavour' of ISLAM encourages hatred of, and the persecution of, disbelievers who reject ISLAM.

Even the ISLAM being practiced in Indonesia.



WWW search....
Bosch Fawstin: No More Misnomers: We Need to Stop Playing Name Games with Islam

By Daniel Greenfield on Apr 29, 2019
".....Western intellectuals and commentators refer to the enemy’s ideology as:
“Islamic Fundamentalism,”
“Islamic Totalitarianism,”
“Islamic Extremism,”
“Islamofascism,”
“Political Islam,”
“Militant Islam,”
“Bin Ladenism,”
“Islamonazism,”
“Radical Islam,”
“Islamism”, etc."

[  true.
that which hates us, that which seeks to assail and to destroy us....
it is just ISLAM,    mainstream, ISLAM.  period.

name the enemy.   .....and then understand what and who, the enemy is.  ]





.



As per the informed declarations of    ISLAMIST    President of Turkey, Recep Tayyip Erdogan.


Quote:

May 23, 2007
Turkish PM Erdogan in Speech During Term As Istanbul Mayor Attacks Turkey's Constitution, Describing it As 'A Huge Lie':

'Sovereignty Belongs Unconditionally and Always To Allah';

'One Cannot Be a Muslim, and Secular'


http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD159607



.



Quote:
Erdogan: No Moderate Islam
    [Erdogan = = President of Turkey, Recep Tayyip Erdogan]

by Burak Bekdil
December 4, 2017 at 4:30 am


....Seven years after Obama's pathetic diagnosis [of ISLAM], the Turkish president said that....

"There is no moderate or immoderate Islam. There is only one Islam."


https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/11484/erdogan-moderate-islam



Back to top
 

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
IP Logged
 
Frank
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 39937
Gender: male
Re: Oh look! Hizb ut-Tahrir, telling it like it is !
Reply #16 - May 3rd, 2019 at 8:27pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on May 3rd, 2019 at 11:45am:
I know, laughable thing to say in hindsight eh FD?



Tell us a serious thing then - which of the tenets and doctrines of Hizb ut-Tahrir Australia are wrong and un-Islamic?




Back to top
 

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.
 
IP Logged
 
Frank
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 39937
Gender: male
Re: Oh look! Hizb ut-Tahrir, telling it like it is !
Reply #17 - May 7th, 2019 at 8:50pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on May 3rd, 2019 at 11:45am:
I know, laughable thing to say in hindsight eh FD?


Tell us a serious thing then - which of the tenets and doctrines of Hizb ut-Tahrir Australia are wrong and un-Islamic?



Back to top
 

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.
 
IP Logged
 
Frank
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 39937
Gender: male
Re: Oh look! Hizb ut-Tahrir, telling it like it is !
Reply #18 - May 7th, 2019 at 8:52pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on May 3rd, 2019 at 12:02pm:
Here you go FD, the full quote:

freediver wrote on Feb 22nd, 2019 at 9:49am:
You seem completely oblivious to what is going on here Gandalf. Islamic extremists in Indonesia can say whatever they want. People who offer progressive interpretations of Islam get put in jail, very publicly. The government is transparently steering debate about Islam in Indonesia towards the extreme, and you are cheering them on.


The reality:

- Indonesia extremists are routinely charged and gaoled for what they say about Islam - under the charge of "hate speech".
- Islamist groups including Hizbut tahrir are banned for what they say about Islam
- The government therefore is transparently steering debate about Islam in Indonesia away from the extreme


Do you agree with the Indonesian Government which bans the Hizbis or with the Australian government which doesn't?

What is wrong with Hizbi doctrine and teaching? Do teach us.

Back to top
 

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Online


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 47062
At my desk.
Re: Oh look! Hizb ut-Tahrir, telling it like it is !
Reply #19 - May 7th, 2019 at 9:46pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on May 3rd, 2019 at 12:02pm:
Here you go FD, the full quote:

freediver wrote on Feb 22nd, 2019 at 9:49am:
You seem completely oblivious to what is going on here Gandalf. Islamic extremists in Indonesia can say whatever they want. People who offer progressive interpretations of Islam get put in jail, very publicly. The government is transparently steering debate about Islam in Indonesia towards the extreme, and you are cheering them on.


The reality:

- Indonesia extremists are routinely charged and gaoled for what they say about Islam - under the charge of "hate speech".
- Islamist groups including Hizbut tahrir are banned for what they say about Islam
- The government therefore is transparently steering debate about Islam in Indonesia away from the extreme



Can you give an example?
Back to top
 

I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT!
WWW  
IP Logged
 
polite_gandalf
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20023
Canberra
Gender: male
Re: Oh look! Hizb ut-Tahrir, telling it like it is !
Reply #20 - May 8th, 2019 at 11:37am
 
freediver wrote on May 7th, 2019 at 9:46pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on May 3rd, 2019 at 12:02pm:
Here you go FD, the full quote:

freediver wrote on Feb 22nd, 2019 at 9:49am:
You seem completely oblivious to what is going on here Gandalf. Islamic extremists in Indonesia can say whatever they want. People who offer progressive interpretations of Islam get put in jail, very publicly. The government is transparently steering debate about Islam in Indonesia towards the extreme, and you are cheering them on.


The reality:

- Indonesia extremists are routinely charged and gaoled for what they say about Islam - under the charge of "hate speech".
- Islamist groups including Hizbut tahrir are banned for what they say about Islam
- The government therefore is transparently steering debate about Islam in Indonesia away from the extreme



Can you give an example?


I have given you several already.

Here's just one:

Quote:
Musician Ahmad Dhani was sentenced to 18 months in prison by South Jakarta District Court on Monday for hate speech in connection with a tweet he posted in March that incited people to attack supporters of former Jakarta governor Basuki Tjahaja Purnama, who now prefers to be called “BTP” but who was formerly known as “Ahok”.


https://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2019/01/28/ahmad-dhani-gets-18-months-for-in...

Also, do you think that he fact that Hizbut tahrir - a known Islamist political group - is banned in Indonesia is consistent with your claim that "Islamic extremists in Indonesia can say whatever they want"?
Back to top
 

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
IP Logged
 
Yadda
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 20901
A cat with a view
Re: Oh look! Hizb ut-Tahrir, telling it like it is !
Reply #21 - May 8th, 2019 at 11:45am
 



gandalf,

Kudos, for a good and meaningful answer, in Reply #20.


...but a pity about all of the many other worthy queries [and criticisms of ISLAM], which you simply chose to ignore.

I guess there aren't enough hours in the day, to address them all.       [laugh]


Back to top
 

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
IP Logged
 
polite_gandalf
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20023
Canberra
Gender: male
Re: Oh look! Hizb ut-Tahrir, telling it like it is !
Reply #22 - May 8th, 2019 at 3:27pm
 
Yadda wrote on May 8th, 2019 at 11:45am:



gandalf,

Kudos, for a good and meaningful answer, in Reply #20.


...but a pity about all of the many other worthy queries [and criticisms of ISLAM], which you simply chose to ignore.

I guess there aren't enough hours in the day, to address them all.       [laugh]


With respect Yadda, I don't really see any compelling reason why I should engage with someone who wants laws passed to lock me and my family up in indefinite detention.
Back to top
 

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
IP Logged
 
Yadda
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 20901
A cat with a view
Re: Oh look! Hizb ut-Tahrir, telling it like it is !
Reply #23 - May 8th, 2019 at 6:03pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on May 8th, 2019 at 3:27pm:

With respect Yadda, I don't really see any compelling reason why I should engage with someone who wants laws passed to lock me and my family up in indefinite detention.




Your argument is undefendable, unbelieveable.


'I'm a moslem,       ....but i reject the principle religious precept of my religion - WHICH CALLS FOR MURDEROUS VIOLENCE AGAINST THOSE WHO REJECT MY RELIGION.'




.



I'm arguing, that every moslem in Australia, needs to be removed from Australia;


Because imo, ISLAMIC culture is not compatible with, and will never be compatible with, a pluralist society or with any form of governance [of a society of men] which allows freedom of conscience.

Why so.... ?

The precepts and doctrines and tenets of ISLAM call for the murder of anyone who rejects ISLAM.

No amount of denials from any follower of ISLAM, can erase the validity of those ISLAMIC sources of evidences,
encouraging such murderous intolerance, towards those who reject ISLAM.


ARGUMENT;
For moslems to come into secular nations and for them to individually claim that,
1/ they know nothing of,
OR,
2/ that they deny any allegiance to, those religious doctrines of violence and murder, targeting non-moslems,
....simply points to how mendacious ISLAMIC culture is.



.



WWW search....
Shahada, confession of faith, of a muslim

"There is no god except for Allah alone; and Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah."





Today, many moslems - living in Australia - are insisting that we, non-moslem Australians, should be forced to accept and believe the incredible;


"I'm a moslem, and i worship Allah, and i revere Mohammed his messenger.

And i know that Allah calls for the enslavement and/or murder of all non-moslems - THROUGH JIHAD [religious fighting, when moslems have that 'opportunity'].

But i don't follow that part of my faith.

HONEST!"
             Grin



Dictionary;
incredible = =
1 impossible to believe.
2 difficult to believe; extraordinary.




ARGUMENT;
A moslem, is a person who      chooses     to embrace a philosophy [ISLAM], which teaches the moslem that it is 'lawful' for him, to kill those, who do not believe, as he believes.

A moslem, is a follower of ISLAM.


That is what a moslem is.






Moslem = = a follower of ISLAM.         <---- dictionary definition.


Every moslem, is a moslem!

Every moslem, is a follower of ISLAM!




.





Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1431117115/1#1
Quote:

"every moslem in Australia is a latent, wanna-be homicidal maniac"

- Yadda



QUESTION;
What about the innocent moslems ?

IMO, [logically] there are no innocent moslems [among persons who have come to the age of consent], and yet still declare themselves to be moslems.

How so [logically] ?

QUESTION;
How credible is it that a person who is devout enough to insist that he is a moslem, is unaware of what ISLAM promotes, and is unaware of what the principle tenets of ISLAM are ?


QUESTION;
How 'innocent' is a person who agrees to give aid and comfort [and to give their own 'power'],      ...to a philosophy which transforms human beings, into homicidal maniacs ?


QUESTION;
How 'innocent' is a person who agrees to give aid and comfort [and to give their own 'power'],     ...to a philosophy which claims that murdering, in the cause of religious bigotry, is a religious virtue ?







Back to top
 

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Online


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 47062
At my desk.
Re: Oh look! Hizb ut-Tahrir, telling it like it is !
Reply #24 - May 8th, 2019 at 7:28pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on May 8th, 2019 at 11:37am:
freediver wrote on May 7th, 2019 at 9:46pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on May 3rd, 2019 at 12:02pm:
Here you go FD, the full quote:

freediver wrote on Feb 22nd, 2019 at 9:49am:
You seem completely oblivious to what is going on here Gandalf. Islamic extremists in Indonesia can say whatever they want. People who offer progressive interpretations of Islam get put in jail, very publicly. The government is transparently steering debate about Islam in Indonesia towards the extreme, and you are cheering them on.


The reality:

- Indonesia extremists are routinely charged and gaoled for what they say about Islam - under the charge of "hate speech".
- Islamist groups including Hizbut tahrir are banned for what they say about Islam
- The government therefore is transparently steering debate about Islam in Indonesia away from the extreme



Can you give an example?


I have given you several already.

Here's just one:

Quote:
Musician Ahmad Dhani was sentenced to 18 months in prison by South Jakarta District Court on Monday for hate speech in connection with a tweet he posted in March that incited people to attack supporters of former Jakarta governor Basuki Tjahaja Purnama, who now prefers to be called “BTP” but who was formerly known as “Ahok”.


https://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2019/01/28/ahmad-dhani-gets-18-months-for-in...

Also, do you think that he fact that Hizbut tahrir - a known Islamist political group - is banned in Indonesia is consistent with your claim that "Islamic extremists in Indonesia can say whatever they want"?


What did he say about Islam?
Back to top
 

I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT!
WWW  
IP Logged
 
polite_gandalf
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20023
Canberra
Gender: male
Re: Oh look! Hizb ut-Tahrir, telling it like it is !
Reply #25 - May 9th, 2019 at 9:45am
 
You could always read it yourself FD.

He said people supporting blasphemers should be spat on.

I have no doubt you'll make a heroic attempt to explain that as something other than saying something about Islam.

Also, lets not forget your original quote was not about Islam. It was that Islamic extremist can "say whatever they like" full stop.

Would you consider this an Islamic extremist being able to "say whatever he liked" (full stop)?

I also eagerly await you're explanation about how you interpret banning Hizbut tahrir as Islamic extremsits being able to say whatever they like. But I expect you'll keep ignoring this one for a while longer.
Back to top
 

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Online


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 47062
At my desk.
Re: Oh look! Hizb ut-Tahrir, telling it like it is !
Reply #26 - May 9th, 2019 at 12:46pm
 
Quote:
He said people supporting blasphemers should be spat on.


That doesn't sound like he is saying anything about Islam. Can you give any actual examples?
Back to top
 

I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT!
WWW  
IP Logged
 
polite_gandalf
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20023
Canberra
Gender: male
Re: Oh look! Hizb ut-Tahrir, telling it like it is !
Reply #27 - May 9th, 2019 at 3:08pm
 
Nearly called it... FD just didn't bother with the explaining part.
Back to top
 

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
IP Logged
 
polite_gandalf
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20023
Canberra
Gender: male
Re: Oh look! Hizb ut-Tahrir, telling it like it is !
Reply #28 - May 9th, 2019 at 3:33pm
 
This is where we are at.

FD says that an Islamist calling blasphemers to be spat on - "doesn't sound like he is saying anything about Islam".

Where do you go after that? There really isn't any adequate response.

We have arrived at peak stupid, and it is simply pointless to continue.

I won't even bother chasing FD up for his continued dodging of my Hizbut tahrir question. I won't ask him a 3rd time.



Back to top
 

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
IP Logged
 
Auggie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


The Bull Moose

Posts: 8571
Re: Oh look! Hizb ut-Tahrir, telling it like it is !
Reply #29 - May 9th, 2019 at 6:38pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on May 9th, 2019 at 3:33pm:
This is where we are at.

FD says that an Islamist calling blasphemers to be spat on - "doesn't sound like he is saying anything about Islam".

Where do you go after that? There really isn't any adequate response.

We have arrived at peak stupid, and it is simply pointless to continue.

I won't even bother chasing FD up for his continued dodging of my Hizbut tahrir question. I won't ask him a 3rd time.





It's basically party politics, Gandalf. FD will defend his party of bigots and Islamophobes even if they do the wrong thing.
Back to top
 

The Progressive President
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5
Send Topic Print